Feminists are concerned that some Chinese women in their late 20s who are doing well in their careers but are labeled “leftover women” for not having married yet, may be their own worst enemies."Gender consciousness" is not going to solve their problem either. Hypergamy cannot be indoctrinated out of women, and sexual selection guarantees that it will never be bred out of women. In fact, feminism is bound to strengthen women's natural hypergamy, because the Sheng Nu, both Chinese and American, are evolutionary dead ends.
While they may earn as much as their male counterparts they may still adhere to traditional beliefs that decree a man must earn more than his wife, and men generally share that belief. Either way, this attitude may limit their pool of potential mates.
“They are still living in a traditional mindset and values, even though there’s no way that those can solve their problem,” said Feng Yuan, a feminist and head of Beijing’s Anti-Domestic Violence Network, in a telephone interview. Other feminists agreed with her.
What is missing is a stronger awareness of the dynamics of gender, said Ms. Feng. “If they don’t gain gender consciousness then they can only rely on luck to solve their problem,” she said, meaning they can only hope to solve the problem if they meet a man who earns more than they do.
“Shengnu,” or “leftover woman,” a term applied to China’s well-educated, unmarried women, has long been hurtful for those labeled in that way.
And I encourage the androsphere to adopt the term "Sheng Nu". Whenever meeting a woman who makes conventional noises about putting her education or her career first, don't hesitate to nod approvingly and neg her about her brave, feminist choice to embrace her Sheng Nu status.
67 comments:
"The Sheng Nu is strong in this one."
"Sheng Nu's gonna Sheng Nu"
Remember first time I saw It's a Wonderful Life, circa 1981, at an artsy little dive in Iowa City, IA. When it is revealed to George the worst of all fates has happened to Mary - "You're not gonna like this George. She's closing up the library!" - the theatre broke out in peels of laughter. Always slightly disgruntled, as any proper young feminist-ish woman was then, I was more angry than amused (such a fun date).
Maybe we could also resurrect "spinster" and "old-maid." Nothing had me sputtering with indignation more than some fool using "outdated" gender-specific language. Kinda like "slut."
There's actually a rather amusing pun in that term, as both 省女 and 圣女 are have the exact same pronunciation in Mandarin: the former meaning "leftover woman", the latter "saintly woman".
Cue feminists from all around the world insisting that the second set of characters be taken, since they're so much holier than you plebes with their Master's Degrees in Womynz Studies and Feminist Literary Theory.
Lets see, theynwant to maximize their careers, education, and income, but want to marry from only men who make more.
I know! Easy! Start paying women less for the same job, so their peers would instantly become marriage eligible.
(Sounds of hamsters imploding from centrifugal force).
Late 20s - are the effects of China's one child policy being seen in that age group? Is there a statistically significant smaller number of women than men at that age? If so, how long do you think it will be before the ChiComs "man up" and mandate marriage for these women?
There might be enough american betas to make sheng-new a title for a mailorder brides catalogue.
When the population of this county is feminist and hypergamous, maybe "diversity" is the way to go - women who are traditional and less wealthy aren't rare everywhere.
There's actually a rather amusing pun in that term, as both 省女 and 圣女 are have the exact same pronunciation in Mandarin: the former meaning "leftover woman", the latter "saintly woman".
It is similar to one particular dialect in Finland (Savo) where the men like to describe a woman as "haaska nainen". In the dialect it means "funny woman" (as in, intentionally funny) but they seem to be perfectly aware that in standard language it means "a carcass of a woman".
This reminds me of a Chinese woman I know who, when she was single, would only date men more intelligent that she. This eliminated around 98% of the pool (she really is that intelligent).
At age 24, she married a guy who, aside from being smart enough, wasn't well suited for her at all. She did this because she was worried that she was already an "old maid" (her words).
Isnt it ironic that communism in russia and china constantly bitch slaps feminism?
I know young women about age 20 whose parents are already trying to set them up with husbands because they aren't in school or building a career. As soon as girls get out of college, their parents apply pressure to marry. People in China do not care about feminism when it comes to getting grandchildren.
I received the all-time unwitting entitled solipsistic hypergamist's email yesterday. I don't know, I think she is a five-tools sheng nu:
a. proud hypergamist
b. self-appointed moral arbiter
c. solipsistic: if she wants to call hypergamy "dating" so should everyone else.
d. entitled: I will do what I want because what I want defines my moral compass
e. vicious: say one more word and I may report you for stalking.
Woman is 42, context is online dating, I write her to introduce myself because we're both from Iowa and living in the same city on the east coast, and she's not fat.
She writes back a long email saying that *actually* she is dating someone but she is online because if it "doesn't work out" she'll have a catalog of subsequent prospects:
"I am currently seeing someone from Match pretty regularly. It's still in the early stages and I'm not sure where it will go, but I'm not making new dates in the meantime. If the situation changes, I'll send you a note as it would be nice to meet you if the opportunity arises."
I respond:
" 'I have a guy but I'm still advertising.'
"[Her name here], what you are doing alienates all credible men, and some of the betas. Normally I wouldn't respond to such a thing. You realize, it's just counterproductive."
She then schools me, and reminds me that she will determine what others may observe, in the "spirit of dating".
"I'm not "advertising"; it's called dating. I could have simply ignored your email altogether, but replied as a polite gesture. Next time don't respond; the spirit of our interaction does not give you the right to make statements like you did below."
Subject is childless never-married 42 year-old, working at an NGO, which seems to attract such a cohort with great efficiency. That's where they go to "make a difference." I bet she is a laugh riot at work if a male challenges anything she says or does; such statements would need to be approved in advance.
BuenaVista, send your "rejection letter" to the admins. They may ban her, which would be hilarious.
Rich, ready-made hamster food:
“Shengnu,” or “leftover woman,” a term applied to China’s well-educated, unmarried women, has long been hurtful for those labeled in that way.
Recently, some have started to push back by swapping it for another word that is pronounced identically but is written differently in Chinese, and has a far more positive meaning: “shengnu,” or “victorious woman,”
"Honest, dear, I meant that you're a victorious woman!"
Sigyn, 10:1 says that the admins are females who will divine 'threatening intent' or some such bullshit in my note to the delicate flower with the gat in her garter. I think I will let her have the last word.
I think I will let her have the last word.
This is exactly how men lost the war between the sexes. All that is at stake even in the worst case is you being able to use an online service, and you STILL won't stand on a principle.
"Shengnu" is a great find as an international concept, if a little Firefly-chinky inside-SyFy nerdball in expression.
Even the translation "leftover" is le mot juste that should be in greater circulation.
10:1 says that the admins are females who will divine 'threatening intent' or some such bullshit in my note to the delicate flower with the gat in her garter. I think I will let her have the last word.
"The results a person achieves are inversely proportionate to the degree to which he is intimidated." —Robert Ringer
— Petruchio
"Honest, dear, I meant that you're a victorious woman!"
Excuse me? EXCUSE ME???
My NAME means "victorious woman." I don't like them using my name. They can run up an alley and holler fish. I was here first.
Wow. It is a sad and hungry day when even leftover woman ain't got no chilli.
This is exactly how men lost the war between the sexes. All that is at stake even in the worst case is you being able to use an online service, and you STILL won't stand on a principle.
Precisely. Not a criticism, however, merely an observation.
Heh..and ha...
China is always good for a laugh.
And there is no fight to win. Hypergamy and Solopsism will INCREASE, as the article says. Cannot be indoctrinated out, will not be bred out of the species.
Only hope of coping (not beating it) is the red pill.
Sorry for a double post...just finished the source article (and again, heh..)
They have taken the word and decided to make it positive...now left over women are "victorious" women...yes, you sure won that one, dincha?
Not unlike the slut walks embracing their word.
Soon using terms like "on the losing end of things" will mean that you actually won!! Herpes will mean perfectly healthy(How you doing? Me? I got herpes!!! I am doing great!!), mugshots will mean you are an upstanding citizen, and being the poorest person in the country will mean that you have the most money.
"Honest, dear, I meant that you're a victorious woman!"
How could I have missed that? There's that one as well, so we've got: 省女 - leftover/remnant; 圣女 - holy/saintly; 胜女 - victorious/triumphant.
But then, isn't reduction of the surplus population what the ChiComs want anyways?
So there can't be anything wrong with evolutionary dead end behavior in China.
so we've got: 省女 - leftover/remnant; 圣女 - holy/saintly; 胜女 - victorious/triumphant.
My dictionary (Wenlin) also gives the meaning "goddess" for 圣女. Maybe they'd like that.
And it's true that even the tones are the same for all three words.
If the androsphere is going to use the term, perhaps its pronunciation should be noted: not "shehng noo", as most Americans would probably pronounce the words as spelled, but roughly "shung" + "nü" as this word would be pronounced in German (roughly "nyu"). The word for "woman" is actually written nü with the dots over the "u", a different letter and sound in Chinese than plain "u" (oo).
And peripherally related: you'd better be careful what you say (and *especially* how it's received) to the ladies at US universities. The feds are now requiring them to enforce "no unwelcome conduct" rules. See http://www.mindingthecampus.com/originals/2013/05/the_feds_mandate_abolition_of_.html
No biggie... lets just all sit back and let women do themselves in... start businesses when were older and let the women be our work slaves hahaha.
"I think I will let her have the last word."
Why the fuck are you even messaging someone like her? A 42 years old feminist? What the hell is wrong with you? And your own age is no excuse.
BTW Buena Vista, she *knows* it's not gonna work out. Unless she's willing to settle for a lesser beta, which seems unlikely. She's gonna get dumped by the losers who are willing to go out with an old feminist, and that's why she needs to keep her profile on the dating website. Because:
1) She will get dumped;
2) She knows she'll eventually get bored with the loser that's foolish enough to go out with her.
Regarding black knights, it appears that this will exponentially increase under opportunities for them to chip away at the feminist imperative from the inside:
http://freebeacon.com/free-speech-under-fire/
" The Obama administration’s Departments of Justice and Education earlier this month issued new guidance on sexual harassment on college campuses that is so broad it makes nearly every student a harasser, according to a nonpartisan group that specializes in campus speech codes."
I appreciate all the remarks about how I'm a wus etc., but I don't read her remarks as being over the line or explicitly threatening. And I don't think it's very smart to claim victim status to some corporation because a female is rude and entirely ignorant of her own contradictions, nor do I think it's a good use of my time to get into a pissing context with a cat lady. If anyone would like to compare life achievements, and status quo bending and breaking, that should probably be done outside.
Perhaps your comments relate to her attempting to boss me around and shame me, but I don't yell at homeless people either, or complain to the cops that they were faking their limps. This does not make me a wus either. This woman, as Andre notes, will either settle down with the guy she's already bored with, or she'll dump him. Either is good enough for me. Whining about her effort to ridicule and shame isn't, since I don't care if people like this ridicule or shame. They're unimproveable; I just get away from them, and would never write a corporation and say, "Make the girls more respectful."
Here's this morning's hamster email, from another leftover woman, which indicates that she still doesn't know enough about herself to know that the men she's attracted to are not the ones she thinks she's supposed to be spending time with. The way she deals with being an alpha widow is to pathologize the alphas, which she typically fucks for three months before pathologizing them, apparently. The cognitive dissonance would seem to be red-lined:
"Regarding submissive men, are there really women out there who want these kind? Not for me. About chemistry; I have guilty of dating men longer than I should have without the chemistry because they were such great guys with great character. I thought that I could actually "learn to love them". The guys whom I had great chemistry with seem to have huge character flaws that didn't surface until the third month or so. I was afraid that very attractive guys and good guys didn't go hand in hand. I know that's not true, but many times is seems as though. So I lived a fakery for a short while until I couldn't take it anymore."
On the one hand, vs. the other hand ... she's guard rail to guard rail -- in *consecutive sentences.*
BuenaVista: " . . . the spirit of our interaction does not give you the right to make statements like you did below."
Yikes! Of course, she thinks she has a right to censor your thoughts and words. Walk away, just walk away. Speaking as a former feminist-ish woman from Iowa (too stupid to even know the feminist nonsense I believed wasn't my own brilliant insight), possibly the best response is to be surprised she misunderstood your meaning; you too were just being nice/polite (you felt sorry for her!) and had no intention of inspiring such an impassioned reply, let alone drive her to feel the need to censor another human being. My, my. How disappointing. Then again, sometimes indifference is the best response. Eventually, she will wonder why you didn't care enough to reply. Is there a way to communicate a furrowed brow and snork - you know, that sharp inhalation through the nose forced audibly into the back of the throat so as to say, "Get over yourself; you take yourself WAY too seriously."
Nothing pisses us off like being told we're taking things/self TOO seriously, especially when we are. "Settle down" also works well; it's slightly condescending and therefore, sure to offend. Oh, this is fun. Like talking to my former self and finally being able to laugh.
PS. I now live in a southern city on the east coast. What a relief. Yes, Nate; the south rules.
PS. I now live in a southern city on the east coast. What a relief. Yes, Nate; the south rules.
Duh.
I have a theory that most of the mgtow gamma crowd are Yankees. Because there certainly are thousands of southern belles that want to be housewives.
Usually I'm inclined to say little other than "You need time-out."
I'm trying to figure out which theater in IC you were in. I'm guessing the Bijou, since I don't recall repertory at any of the commercial theaters. (Iowa City born and raised.)
It's the VD position that one always speaks truth to power, and it's his blog, but I don't really think that this cat lady is 'power.' Or that I need customer service to protect me from rude Katie Bolicks.
I appreciate all the remarks about how I'm a wus etc., but I don't read her remarks as being over the line or explicitly threatening.
I'm not saying you necessarily are, though you might be. I've taken that approach nearly all my life, and thought it the right approach. Seen others take it too. And now I find that we've lost the war between the sexes to a degree that reminds of the Twilight Zone.
So, I'm thinking, it wasn't the right approach after all.
So let me get this straight [guy never hearing about Sheng-Nu until today]; Sheng-Nu is a feminist-empowered system created by women in China to safeguard themselves from marriages before that age of 27, pregnancies, and the opportunity for women to date and marry UP towards their 30s and 40s rather than settle for family arranged matches —thus giving them opportunities to further their education/careers and defeat China's stifling man-powered system which inadvertently caused the imbalance of the male to female population ratio.
...and that any male who supports this notion is automatically labelled less of a man (or a Beta) judging by the comments and the callously derogatory tone taken to the whole Sheng-Nu notion. I sense the issue (not being or knowing much about China) is concerning the large amount of men left unable to bang because China's women are on a pussy strike until they achieve their pinnacle.
Am I getting this right? What am I leaving out? What am I misunderstanding? Speak logically, not with nasty bias please. Thanks
tz: Yep! that's exactly what I was thinking. Because even the worst Chinese feminists aren't as bad as the worst American feminists.
Consider this scenario: An average Chinese family might have the housework split 90-10, with the wife doing 90% of the housework, and being always obedient to her husband, who doesn't take her opinions seriously ever. A modern American family might have the housework split 50-50, with the feminist shrew wife bitching about everything and anything. If a Chinese "feminist" marries an average American man, the houswork might be split 70-30. The wife bitches/complains about stuff occassionally, and the husband doesn't mind too much because the bitching doesn't happen that often. The American husband feels like a winner because he has a wife who acts more feminine, complains less often, and does most of the housework. The Chinese wife feels like a winner because she gets listened to from time to time and doesn't have to obey her husband all the time. She also gets more than trivial help from her husband when it comes to housework.
The other thing is that 27 year old Chinese women don't look 27...well maybe they look 27 to Chinese men but my eyes can't tell the difference. I once had a coworker whom I thought was my age at the time (21 or 22). Turns out she was 29!!!!! I Chinese sheng nu think they start to look old at 27. I bet that most Americans don't think they start to look old until they are 35.
This bullet assess was captured to video, and Our posted it along with
this review. The actual DOE's roadmap, needs that taking place closer to all 2030 timeline.
My site ... agencja detektywistyczna
BuenaVista: I'm trying to figure out which theater in IC you were in. I'm guessing the Bijou, since I don't recall repertory at any of the commercial theaters. (Iowa City born and raised.)
Bijou! That sounds right. Still jones for Hamburg Inn, usually stop for Cookies N' More. Miss The Great Midwestern. (Notice the food theme?)
Josh: I landed smack dab in a pack of southern belles my first job in Richmond. Wonderful culture shock. I love the unapologetic girliness of southern ladies, and their Scarlet O'Hara survivalist "toughness." My mother-in-law is a force of nature.
It seems as if China is racing to catch up to the British and black community as a warning and herald to the white middle class of America as well as the rest of the world.
I can only wonder sometimes how far itll go before we can point and say, "I told you so."
It seems as if China is racing to catch up to the British and black community as a warning and herald to the white middle class of America as well as the rest of the world.
I can only wonder sometimes how far itll go before we can point and say, "I told you so."
I wonder how these women co-exist in a country with a burgeoning surplus of unwed men due to sex-selective abortions - the "bare branches" we've read about. It's like matter and anti-matter within one country.
Markku, I do believe that it's important not to interrupt bad people while they are busy destroying themselves. That is what the female in question is doing.
I do understand, intellectually, the Stand Tall ethos that is prevalent here, but if someone came to me and bitched about a girl who wasn't nice to him in an online dating forum, I'd tell him to fuck off and get a life. Which sentiment makes sense to me.
I just love how these women self-explicate without realizing it. Wish I'd known some of this stuff a decade ago. I didn't, but it certainly makes child's play of the landscape now. Until now, I could only predict what people would do in business.
The point isn't that she wasn't nice, it was that she was already involved with a man. This is what the administrators might be interested in. Rooting such behavior out is a service (albeit a small one) to all men there.
The fact that she then tried to intimidate you for pointing this out is just a bonus.
The point isn't that she wasn't nice, it was that she was already involved with a man. This is what the administrators might be interested in.
BuenaVista, this was the point I had in mind, in fact. By having a profile open to public viewing at Match.com, she's basically making it out like she's available, but she's not, and she's sending out form rejection letters saying as much. Bait and switch much, lady?
I'm thinking Match.com isn't meant to be a place where you go to get an applicant pool for future openings, but you're supposed to have a position available, if you get me.
What she is doing is at least skirting the border of dishonesty--and most matchmaking sites frown on dishonesty, if I understand right.
Hypergamy cannot be indoctrinated out of women, and sexual selection guarantees that it will never be bred out of women. In fact, feminism is bound to strengthen women's natural hypergamy, because the Sheng Nu, both Chinese and American, are evolutionary dead ends.
eh wat...
Feminism is bound to increase hypergamy because hypergamous women (Sheng Nus) are evolutionary dead ends?
Markku, Sigyn: sure, you're right. You think it's fraud, she thinks it's WAY KEWL GURLZZ DATING EMPOWERMENT, and I think she's a hypergamist loser who sleeps with animals. But match.com could care less, nor should they. There's nothing here but her whining that I didn't sustain her self-image. I'm not going to whine to match.com that she doesn't support rationality.
I fight with people who have something I want.
Feminism is bound to increase hypergamy because hypergamous women (Sheng Nus) are evolutionary dead ends?
No, because all women are hypergamous and the most elite women are the least likely to breed. The Sheng Nus aren't any more hypergamous, it's only that their hypergamy, combined with their high levels of IQ and success, limits their pool.
Lower IQ, lower success women = more happy hypergamy.
"PS. I now live in a southern city on the east coast. What a relief. Yes, Nate; the south rules."
This warms my soul... way down to the cockles of my black heart... perhaps even below the cockles... to the sub cockle region.
Nate, must you forever be talking of your black sub-cockles in public?
"And I encourage the androsphere to adopt the term "Sheng Nu"."
The english language already has a similar expression to describe the "leftover woman": the superfluous woman.
1. The Case of Superfluous Women.
2. The Problem of the Superfluous Woman.
3. War Problem of the Superfluous Woman May be Solved by Industry or Polygamy.
I encourage you to research this topic Vox. Many of the problems we face today can be traced directly to the question of the "superfluous woman" -- and how it was answered at the end of the nineteenth century.
Re: the Match.com woman. It's an ego trip for her. She keeps her profile open, then gets to shoot down the guys who dare to think they are good enough to contact her. Pure ego. And who knows? She might find someone who makes her tingle more than current bf, and trade up. --Tim.
Sheng Nu, you say? Congratulatory salutation, you suggest? I like it.
Sheng Nu, Sheng Nu... trying to get that into my head. I have the rest of it down. *grins* Sheng Nu...
You must defeat Sheng Nu to stand a chance.
Josh May 15, 2013 at 11:27 AM
"I have a theory that most of the mgtow gamma crowd are Yankees. Because there certainly are thousands of southern belles that want to be housewives."
Mainly only to uber-alphas, if they're warpigs, or over 40.
Or have 3 kids already by 3 different dads ( two of whom are in prison, one being a mulatto), and >$60K in debt, but has a part-time job paying minimum wage.
Oh, and don't forget her chronic "problem" staying faithful, her 4 undeclawed cats kept indoor, and her 5000 Harlequins (that having read makes her an expert on how relationships should go).
Anonymous said...
"The other thing is that 27 year old Chinese women don't look 27...well maybe they look 27 to Chinese men but my eyes can't tell the difference. I once had a coworker whom I thought was my age at the time (21 or 22). Turns out she was 29!!!!! I Chinese sheng nu think they start to look old at 27. I bet that most Americans don't think they start to look old until they are 35."
May 15, 2013 at 12:11 PM
Yeah, but those apparently-timeless Chinese womens' ovaries know their true age, even if American provider beta men don't.
Know the correct way to cat-call a Sheng Nu?
"Hey, you! Want to buy a cat?"
In some cases, you should probably say "another cat".
Vox is correct on the pool limiting effect. Just look at girls who are 6' tall (a small group, admittedly).
Their ability to get a man who is still taller than they are is more limited than a girl who is 5'6". Even worse if they insist on him being taller when they are in heels.
Or high-income earning women. The pool just gets smaller.
From the article:
“Why aren’t girls prepared to marry a man who earns less? Because income represents your ability,” she said in a telephone interview.
“If you earn less it means you have less ability and no one wants to marry someone with less ability,” she said.
“Male-female equality is about making men and women equal and if I contribute 50 percent of everything that doesn’t mean I’m equal,” she said. “Men should respect women, respect their ideas and ways of thinking, and not be the kind of person who says ‘everything a woman says is nonsense,’” she said."
So.....she wants someone who is superior to her as demonstrated by his increased ability to earn income. Because in China, your value as a human being is only determined by the $$$ you earn. Period. I see this even in nominally "christian" chinese who still haven't embraced the real gospel message.
Yet, although this man is superior to her in ability (by her OWN standard), she expects him to respect her opinions and ways of thinking. Despite their inferior ability.
Ah, good to see that the Chinese hamster is equally as strong as the American hamster.
From the article:
“Why aren’t girls prepared to marry a man who earns less? Because income represents your ability,” she said in a telephone interview.
“If you earn less it means you have less ability and no one wants to marry someone with less ability,” she said.
“Male-female equality is about making men and women equal and if I contribute 50 percent of everything that doesn’t mean I’m equal,” she said. “Men should respect women, respect their ideas and ways of thinking, and not be the kind of person who says ‘everything a woman says is nonsense,’” she said."
So.....she wants someone who is superior to her as demonstrated by his increased ability to earn income. Because in China, your value as a human being is only determined by the $$$ you earn. Period. I see this even in nominally "christian" chinese who still haven't embraced the real gospel message.
Yet, although this man is superior to her in ability (by her OWN standard), she expects him to respect her opinions and ways of thinking. Despite their inferior ability.
Ah, good to see that the Chinese hamster is equally as strong as the American hamster.
I've heard that in some large U.S. cities that ambitious (WRT hypergamous dating) women now commonly overtly follow the "6-6-6" rule. That is, he must be 6', and make six figures, or he should be deep-sixed.
premiums for young men ages 25-36 could increase by more than 50 percent, and females 25-29 will face a 4 percent increase.
Details?
I'm reading the articles myself too, but would love your insight.
“Men should respect women, respect their ideas and ways of thinking"
EARN IT.
"not be the kind of person who says ‘everything a woman says is nonsense,’”
Again, EARN IT. Sick of this "princess" notion that they have to have everything handed to them on a plate, just because they're born with a vagina. If they don't want everything taken as nonsense, don't spout nothing but nonsense.
I'm from England and the situation here is dire. Women demand that men be "men", but they won't actually be ladies. Yet they expect the same level of "respect" and all the rest regardless, yet give nothing back. Majority of the women here just aren't worth it.
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