Sunday, March 8, 2015

White knighting a big mouth

It is amazing the lengths that some men will go to prevent a woman from being held accountable for her nonsensical words. First, we have Miss Rousey's characteristically silly assertion of her own martial capabilities:
UFC women’s bantamweight champion and all-around American badass Ronda Rousey said on ESPN’s Sportscenter Thursday that she believes she could beat “100 percent” of the UFC male fighters in her weight class.

“UFC announcer Joe Rogan has stated that he thinks you might be able to beat 50 percent of UFC male bantamweight fighters,” Sportscenter anchor Matt Barrie said. “So now this debate has started. Ronda, what do you think of about Rogan’s comment?”

"I never say that I'm incapable of beating anybody, because I don't believe in putting limits on myself," Rousey replied. "So I mean, I would have to say if you're just talking about what's in the realm of possibility of what's possible of who I could beat, well, I could beat 100 percent of them.
And then we have white knight Kevin Iole riding to her rescue lest anyone take the little woman's words at face value:
At one point before her fight with Zingano, UFC president Dana White joked he might have to make Rousey fight men if she beat Zingano easily. Again, White wasn't suggesting that was his plan. He was simply pointing out how dominant she'd been.

But that didn't stop UFC flyweight contender Ian McCall from speaking out about it. McCall took Rogan's comments completely seriously and said that Rousey wouldn't defeat a good male mixed martial arts fighter. He went on to say he'd throw Rousey, a bronze medalist in the 2008 Beijing Olympics.

A good man will not lose to Ronda Rousey. I could put a judo gi on, [she's] an Olympian. You're not throwing me. It's not going to happen. I will throw you on your head. Pretty simple. And you weigh more than me. I can't compartmentalize it. It doesn't make sense to me. I know it's all talk. They compare her to [former heavyweight boxer Mike] Tyson. She's dangerous, she's good. I get it, but it's just silly. 
McCall completely missed the point and made himself look incredibly small in the process. Rousey is enormously popular and is growing the fan base. People like to witness greatness and what Rousey is doing is not only great for herself, but for all of her peers, male and female.

McCall's words are incredibly demeaning to one of the greatest female athletes in the world.
No, McCall's words are straightforward and correct, as Rousey's own mother would agree. The only one whose words are actually "incredibly demeaning" are Sir Iole's, since he made Ronda Rousey look not only small, but infantile. The good white knight is not willing to let the little lady speak for herself, or be spoken back to by others. Miss Rousey's mother, a former world judo champion, is considerably more lucid than either Joe Rogan or her daughter, as she pointed out.
"That's a stupid idea," De Mars said. "Seriously, that's a stupid idea. I'm as much a feminist as anyone but the fact is that biologically, there's a difference between men and women. Hello. Duh. A woman who is 135 pounds and a man who is 135 pounds are not physically equal."
Rousey is a good fighter. No question. She deserves respect for that. But she is a tiny little thing that any normal-sized man could beat as easily as she beats most of her competitors, and she shouldn't be encouraged to shoot her mouth of in this regard. I only go around 195 and I can CURL her weight five times. And there are much bigger and stronger men who do could do single-hand shoulder presses with her.

It's fine to exaggerate and engage in hyperbole, especially in a sport that thrives on that sort of marketing, but then don't turn around and throw hissy fits when someone deigns to take your claims seriously.

54 comments:

Earl Thomas said...

Exhibit A at the one minute mark as to what happens when a woman tries to box a man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRfCpQx_FDE

mmaier2112 said...

I would pay $100 to watch a non-fixed fight on TV vs. a non-ranked male fighter of the same weight.

Which Williams sister got destroyed by a dude ranked #200 who was falling to #300 the next week? Or was it both of the steroid-freak sisters in the same day? I cannot recall.

I have a friend that will not shut up about Rousey. And he lifts so he's extra stupid on the subject.

Markku said...

Meanwhile, badass womyns on motocross bikes

Markku said...

talking about what's in the realm of possibility of what's possible of who I could beat

Department of redundancy department approves the realm of possibility of what's possible.

Earl Thomas said...

' I would have to say if you're just talking about what's in the realm of possibility of what's possible of who I could beat, well, I could beat 100 percent of them.'

If she were a man we'd call her a Gamma.

Krul said...

According to the google.com sketch, today is International Women's Day. Women can do anything, and we should celebrate that. We should not celebrate the fact that men can do anything, though. That would be sexist.

Markku said...

What men mean by "I could beat X" is "given a fight, chances are that I will beat X". What she means is " it is not absolutely 100% impossible for me to beat X". This is rhetorical games, and I bet she knows it too, but it is understandable. The nature of her sport is that she can't make the statement "I cannot beat X". So, she has to find some way to spin it.

Earl Thomas said...

The biggest white knight around was Joe Rogan for even coming up with idea.

dw said...

@Earl

Or its a very amusing bit of black knighting.

Earl Thomas said...

'Or its a very amusing bit of black knighting.'

Perhaps...I have no idea the Machiavellian capabilities of Joe Rogan but he probably knows her more personally than most people.

grendel said...

The last MMA fight I watched was a women's match about 5yrs ago. The hype videos had these women talking about how they're these naturally amazing fighters while I'm thinking "BS," if you were a good fighter you could fight men instead of beat up women. The fight went all 3 rounds. Countless hard headshots were landed that if thrown by men would've ended the fight, but since they weren't strong enough to KO each other they just beat each other's faces to bloody ribbons. It was pathetic, and I felt dirty by the time it was over. Like I said, MMA lost a viewer that night.

Markku said...

She sidestepped the statement about objective facts by talking about her feelings instead. So that no feathers would get ruffled by all those pesky factual disagreements. In a saner age, everybody would go "yep, that's a female athlete allright. So, how badly did the Vikings lose?" and that would have been the end of it.

dw said...

The strongest woman at my gym can bench about 135-140 two or three times. The average man there uses that as a light warm up set. Rousey says she doesn't lift at all, and for all I know she may be telling the truth, but if it is true it may explain how she thinks can possibly beat a male fighter in a competition: shes never seen the strength, speed, or endurance differences up close, she's only seen them fight and so she thinks "Hell I can do that!" because she more or less can.

ARYAN said...

I'm an old timer so this reminds me of Billy Jean King [female] v. Bobby Riggs [male] decades ago in what was called the Battle of the Sexes. Of course in hypocritical feminist fashion is was anything but 'equal':

"A few critics were less than impressed by King's victory. King was 26 years younger, and some experts claimed that it was more an age versus youth game. According to Jack Kramer, "I don't think Billie Jean played all that well. She hit a lot of short balls which Bobby could have taken advantage of had he been in shape. I would never take anything away from Billie Jean — because she was smart enough to prepare herself properly — but it might have been different if Riggs hadn't kept running around. It was more than one woman who took care of Bobby Riggs in Houston." Before the match, however, King had forced the American television network ABC to drop Kramer as a commentator. King said, "He doesn't believe in women's tennis. Why should he be part of this match? He doesn't believe in half of the match. I'm not playing. Either he goes – or I go." ~ wikipedia 'Battle of the Sexes'.

and now nearly 40 years later women's tennis is still a hypocritical lie with women being paid equal to men yet allowing women to play fewer sets. I hope history doesn't repeat itself with the UFC/MMA if this female actually gets in the ring with a male. If she does, just watch that the male isn't 26 years her senior...

MATT said...

Either she has brain damage or she made those comments in jest, because when news got out about tranny fighter Fox Fallon, she did a video interview saying theres no way a man and woman should be able to fight because of the physical differences. Strength, etc.

Rousey is far too masculine to not be lifting and probably on some kind of gear. It's especially humorous to see her in a dress.

Id wager one of the reasons she does so well is that her trainers have her practice against much larger men. They dominate her but that makes fighting women easier, I imagine.

dw said...

"Id wager one of the reasons she does so well is that her trainers have her practice against much larger men. They dominate her but that makes fighting women easier, I imagine."

Vox mentioned years ago that a woman at his dojo only fought men for a few years. She never beat them but when she went to a tournament she utterly destroyed the women there.

Markku said...

Either she has brain damage or she made those comments in jest

Neither. I mean, read the comment. "I never say that I'm incapable of beating anybody, because I don't believe in putting limits on myself"

She is not talking about what the facts actually are, she is explicitly talking about what she has chosen to believe about them, because she thinks it advantagious in fights.

Markku said...

The original speaker made a statement about facts. She sidestepped it by talking about feelings. I think she did this because she knows that the facts are that she would be likely to beat precisely zero of them. But that statement would ruffle a lot of feathers. Talking about feelings is safe.

MATT said...

Well, either way, i dont want to see women fight. Just scissor.

Dexter said...

I'm an old timer so this reminds me of Billy Jean King [female] v. Bobby Riggs [male] decades ago in what was called the Battle of the Sexes

Saw a story a while back that he threw the match.

If Rousey fights a man, expect him to take a dive in the fourth.

The strongest woman at my gym can bench about 135-140 two or three times

In many years at Gold's, never seen a woman do 135 even once.

dw said...

"In many years at Gold's, never seen a woman do 135 even once."

She's the only girl there that's serious about benching; all the others do sets with about 55 or 60, then some other light exercises before diverting course to the elliptical.

Markku said...

She probably thought herself quite clever, when she equivocated on "could", thereby avoiding saying anything about her actual chances. But she didn't understand how reporters think. There was no way on earth, those words wouldn't result in the headline "Ronda Rousey Says She Could Beat '100 Percent' Of Men In Her Weight Class". Because that's what brings pageviews.

Markku said...

The real question is, if she is offered the chance to fight men, will she take it? If she does, and then gets beaten over and over like a little bitch, then what she said is proven to be absolutely true. She did believe what she said she believes. She never claimed it matched reality.

But if she doesn't take it, then she is proven to be a liar. That choice only makes sense if she believed something other than she said.

DaveofSpades said...

Clearly, none of you have seen the video of her breaking a guy's ribs. That being said, I think she could beat some of the lower guys. The top 50% or so would quite literally break her which I'd love to see because she's a classless cunt. She reminds me of Annika Sorenstam. She dominated the LPGA but when finally given her wish to play with the boys, she finished mid pack. Might have missed the cut.

In short, the woman many think is the best female golfer ever was only an average male pro.

bob k. mando said...

Markku said...
The original speaker made a statement about facts. She sidestepped it by talking about feelings. I think she did this because she knows that the facts ar



i think she wants to talk about feelings because she's a woman ...



mmaier2112 said...
Which Williams sister got destroyed by a dude ranked #200 who was falling to #300 the next week?


both.

http://observer.theguardian.com/osm/story/0,,543962,00.html


as an aside, any time anybody brings up Durhanica as being a 'good driver', simply point out that her male team mates have won twice as many championships as she has lucked into fuel economy wins.

MATT said...

Daveofspades that isnt a video of her vreaking a mans ribs. Thats a video of a stupid journalist who doesnt do judo, letting her flip him, and him landing on his ribs. Not a trained fighter who can knock her out with one punch which is what would happen in a real mma match.

bob k. mando said...

Rousy's main trick is the double leg armbar. which you don't see much of in men's MMA. why not?

because it's a great way to get knocked the fuck out, that's why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OWA0KrmzKU

you notice those chick fights? she doesn't stand a chance against a man with much greater upper body strength.

Patrick Kelly said...

135 was my max in H.S....when I was 5'4" and weighed 112 lbs......

Rousey would kick my ass...but I'm a lot older...still smaller....and have no MMA experience at all........

Tommy Hass said...

There's not a single person on this planet that loathes this mentally ill vermin more than me, but there is no way that they average man is going to beat Rousey in an MMA fight. Vox is ripped as hell and knows how to fight (though Rousey could fluke a win) but the average man? Please.

Tommy Hass said...

Grappling is a sport that can mitigate strength and speed differences, to say NOTHING about Judo.

bob k. mando said...

calm yourself, Tommy.

no one here is talking about her beating an 'average man'. we're talking about whether she'd have a chance against an average *MMA fighter*.

judo ain't going to do shit for her against a wrestler who has brushed up on his boxing.

evilwhitemalempire said...

@Aryan
"I'm an old timer so this reminds me of Billy Jean King [female] v. Bobby Riggs [male] decades ago in what was called the Battle of the Sexes. Of course in hypocritical feminist fashion is was anything but 'equal':"
-----------------------------
You are, of course, aware that the match you referred to was rigged.
Bobby Riggs was in debt with the mob and agreed to throw that match in order to pay it off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PeU8TFC4LQ
The giveaway that it was, in fact, rigged is because Margaret Court the number 1 female tennis champ at the time (Billy Jean was the number 2) was slaughtered by Riggs just prior to his match with Billy Jean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1Ueec50rVw

Thomas Howard said...

Rousey is sure to lose to any man on the current UFC roster--in any weight class, even the lighter (125 lb) class. You can take that to the bank. The only reason this is being brought up is to hype Rousey and change the subject from all the drug use. None of it matters because a legitimate MGMA fight will never take place, certainly not in this country.

Bobo said...

IIRC, Riggs covered a doubles court, BJ King (what a great name if she were a f@g) covered only the singles.

ajw308 said...

@Tommy, have you ever been in a fight? Strength and mass count for a lot. That's why, the sex being the same. Sorting fighters by weight is done. Throw a fighter in the mix that is, pound for pound, weaker, that weaker fighter is at the disadvantage.

Then there's an easy and obvious defense to her rolling arm bar. She'd be lucky to not get hurt fight a guy.

Tommy Hass said...

"Strength and mass count for a lot."

No shit. But untrained amateurs are utterly unsuited to use their great strength. When differences of skill become ginormous, weaker professionals can defeat stronger rookies.

I am obviously not referring to any male UFC fighter or even any professional fighter losing to Rousey. The male professional that loses to Rousey would have to be small, out of shape, green/over the hill, of limited talent to begin with and underestimating her. Even then it would be a long shot.

Tommy Hass said...

Btw, wrt Gammatude, I have stumbled upon a specimen that is almost too hard to believe...

Eric said...

She's making an "any given Sunday" argument, and to that extent she's probably correct. It's not impossible she could beat a man in her weight class, particularly since she likes arm holds and other techniques that work against larger people.

However. I would say the odds are about 50:50 if you put her in the ring with professional men in her weight class she would be seriously injured or killed before she chalked up a win.

Markku said...

An untrained man will not go in for the kill from the first strike, with the intent of putting her in the hospital with one punch. An untrained man will play, because she's a woman. And therein lies her chance.

Tommy Hass said...

An untrained man throws amazingly sloppy punches.

ray said...

Chunk Roaring Ronda into thunderdome. Ten rounds with McCall. Or any competent bantamweight. No knockdown rule, no towels, no tap outs. No cut stoppages.

After that, Kevin goes in, same rules. How desperately Kev needs to worship the Great Ronda Rousey! How eager the Mob is to see their heroine kick ass. Just like their movies told them.

That western men get off on watching women beat up each other, or beat up men, speaks for itself.

Noah B said...

The nature of her sport is that she can't make the statement "I cannot beat X". So, she has to find some way to spin it.

And from that perspective her statement is understandable, because you never really know what you can do until you try. But her chances aren't good, and the HuffPo headline is a perfect example of how the media twists the meaning of words by taking them out of context.

Arthur Isaac said...

Rousey talks smack and hides behind her vagina. That's my take.

Arthur Isaac said...

@Tommy Hass, so what your saying is Joe Sixpack gets to fight Rousey after she gets a training camp and he comes in off the street? Yeah, she might win that way.

everybodyhatesscott said...

I've rolled in BJJ with men I had 80lbs on significantly stronger than and got my butt whooped. Granted, they're still men. Her only chance would be to get someone to the ground and she wouldn't be quick enough to take any decent wrestler down (Seriously people, put your sons in wrestling). I would be curious to see how far down the ladder she'd have to go to find a man she can beat.

Vespasian said...

@Earl Thomas said: Exhibit A at the one minute mark as to what happens when a woman tries to box a man.

Compare that video of two soldiers (male and female) fighting with the Hollywood version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LezWI_RTaH8 (clip from Battlestar Galactica).

cailcorishev said...

I don't think women should be in MMA or boxing at all. But on this particular statement, it looks to me like she's saying what any serious competitor would say. You don't get to the top of your field by talking about who can beat you. Of course she's going to say she could beat anyone. From a man, I suspect the reporter would take it as standard competitive bluster; but from her, he jumps on the feminist angle and starts challenging men to respond to it that way, then the white knights follow suit.

Markku said...

I wouldn't call it "bluster". I mean, have you ever heard a man bluster with the qualifier "if you're just talking about what's in the realm of possibility of what's possible". No, bluster is "I'll kick ALL their asses if they'll just let me". This is sidestepping the issue.

Tommy Hass said...

"@Tommy Hass, so what your saying is Joe Sixpack gets to fight Rousey after she gets a training camp and he comes in off the street? Yeah, she might win that way."

It's hilarious how contemptuous you people are.

Newsflash: professionals are universes removed from you in ability. There is a reason why people who follow the sport are most likely to laugh at the kind of stuff you are proposing.

"Might win". LOL.

Hendra Prasetyo said...

N I CES

marsultor13 said...

The simple fact is that this will always be an academic debate. Rousey is too smart to ever fight a male fighter. She knows that even if she fought the lowest ranked fighter in the weight class below hers she would be destroyed. She does in fact spar against men (you can find vidoes of it on you-tube) and she gets thrown around like a child. However as another commenter pointed out, that gives her a major advantage when competing against other women. Bottom line, my take is she knew exactly what she was saying and said it inorder to get exactly the result she did. Rogan might have actually believed what he said but then he's never struck me as the sharpest tool in the shed. Rousey KNOWS how full of shit what she said was

Arthur Isaac said...

@ Tommy Hass

No, it's hilarious how contemptuous the modern feminist is of the average man.

Professional? LOL

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