Saturday, March 7, 2015

Alpha Mail: the contact-shy son

BD emails concerning his son:
A comment on your post "The Danger of Fantasy" talked of separating the masculine from the feminine. My wife & I have 5 children & we home school. We have just one boy. What I've noticed for awhile is that I believe my son actually takes on some female traits. He's somewhat petty. He's very jealous. He's very overdramatic at times. He very much cares what his sisters think about him and cannot stand when they laugh at him. To me these are feminine traits. He's around girls all the time and the 5 girls in our family (my wife & 4 daughters)​ are exceedingly girly. Is there any advice that you have or things I can to try & steer him away from this feminization? I'm the family provider so there is no way I can spend as much time with him as my wife does and by proxy his sisters. He's a big strong athletic kid but sometimes he's the biggest baby in our family & he has shown LOTS of tendency to avoid confrontation, especially now that he's playing contact sports.
It's hard for Alpha fathers to accept that they have sons of lower socio-sexual rank, even though their own behavior often helps cement those Delta or Gamma traits in their sons as they crush any sign of a normally rebellious spirit out of them.

My suspicion is that the boy's behavior is partly the result of being in a heavily female environment and partly the result of having a big, strong, Alpha father. This indicates that the father has to take a two-prong approach to addressing the problem of creeping Gammatude. The first is to ensure that he is occupied in a number of competitive male activities. Not just the sports teams, but also non-sports activities where he can compete and learn that failure isn't a complete catastrophe.

Second, BD needs to start setting him challenges in which he has a reasonable chance of beating BD. I don't mean throwing games, but intentionally choosing games where he can legitimately beat his father. I suspect one reason that he shrinks from confrontation is that he doesn't feel as if he has any ability to compete, so giving him that ability should help address the problem. Also, BD should refrain from either overpraising when his son wins or gloating when he beats his son.

Third, the one thing that should be crushed is any Gamma attempt to reframe defeat as victory or control the narrative through deceit. It doesn't sound like he's that deeply into Gamma for that to be an issue, but if it appears, it should be forthrightly addressed.

38 comments:

de ti said...

By far the most direct cause of BD's son's issue is that he is around girls all the time. He's homeschooled. He's not around other boys. He doesn't compete against them and win some, lose some. The moment he shows any pushback, any normal rebellion, his mother and sisters crush it out of him.

This boy needs to get around other boys. The sports teams are a good idea. He might also need to go to school, and stop homeschooling.

aeolipera said...

Hmm, this sounds a lot like my story. Particularly, the part about being athletic and strong but uncompetitive and gun-shy. Also home-schooled.

I don't think team sports are necessarily a good idea. Get him into full-contact martial arts, lifting, maybe track and field, maybe competitive chess or math team. Individualistic stuff, where he can learn about success, failure, adversity, in a more autistic environment.

Also, introduce him to Mystery Method and Heartiste sooner rather than later. More theoretical stuff is better, unless I miss my guess. I went Gamma -> Omega in my teenage years, because I followed the churchy preaching very literally. I actually went so far as to suppress my libido through Pavlovian conditioning. Bad juju.

Jack Amok said...

This boy needs to get around other boys. The sports teams are a good idea. He might also need to go to school, and stop homeschooling.

If he's somewhere around 11, stop by some local Scout troops. Look for one with some older (14 and 15) year olds who look decently athletic and that spends a lot of time outdoors, especially doing bigger trips (50 miler backpacking, mountain climbing, sea kayaking, etc.). That'll get him around other boys out doing boy things, probably in a much better environment than an overly-feminized school.

I'll stress, not every, maybe not even most, Scout troops are what you want, but if you can find one that is, it'll be good for him.

macengr said...

So, how does a Gamma / Delta / Beta father raise a son so the kid has a shot at being an Alpha - or is that pretty much a non-starter?

bob k. mando said...

chess offers two different methods of effective handicapping.
1 - use a chess clock, stronger player gets significantly less time
2 - stronger player starts with a material disadvantage like down a knight or bishop

these methods allow the father to play to the best of his abilities while still making it possible to balance outcomes to near 50%

Jack Amok said...

Do your best to teach him honor, courage and self-confidence. If he has those things, he'll be fine, where ever he ends up on the tree.

ray said...

Even primitive societies grokked the necessity of removing boys from The Hive before (or at) adolescence. Otherwise, they'll basically become women, as in the U.S. and anglosphere.


After adolescence, female influence on young men should be little-to-zero, with the exception of supervised courting. (Which doesn't exist anymore.) Instead, in the West, we place males under the power and control of females (teachers, SJW thugs, female family members, gynarchic police/law, media, social workers, feminized churches, ad nauseum). We make sure that little boys don't, or can't, become men. Because as we've all been told for the past half-century, men are Perpetrators, Rapy Rapers, Abusers, Harassers . . . all privileged and requiring constant beatdowns if the nation and planet are to become peaceful, nurturing, fabulous, and Always Safe For Females.

Earl Thomas said...

'Because as we've all been told for the past half-century, men are Perpetrators, Rapy Rapers, Abusers, Harassers . . . all privileged and requiring constant beatdowns if the nation and planet are to become peaceful, nurturing, fabulous, and Always Safe For Females.'

Not safe for females but safe for the weak elite males who only want their form of control and don't want to confront a man who actually has more power than they do.

Cataline Sergius said...

Agreed. He needs to be around other boys.

There are many benefits to homeschooling but social orientation isn't one of them. Home schoolers are almost as socially autistic as private schoolers in my experience.

Boys need other boys. They need challenge and competition.

A boy will imprint on his father, so long as he is still in the house. However he has to learn how to get along with other boys from other boys. He can't learn that from girls or even from his father.

Yes, get him out of the house before he permanently imprints on his most dominant sister.

MATT said...

@bobkmando chess is a terrible idea at this point in time. This kid needs 24/7 masculine, physical, violent fun and sports. The time for taking it slow is over. If hes big and strong, let him run rough shod over the other boys. Show him what it means to dominate someone weaker or even his equal. A sister doesnt count.Vox, is that the entire email? He doesnt mention his sons age.

dw said...

An extremely important factor is making sure the boy's mother doesn't (metaphorically) beat the masculine out of him. It's tough for women to understand how boys behave and what they need. Keeping her from turning him into a good little maladjusted gamma takes care of half the battle already. Encourage natural male behaviors, reinforced with his father actively teaching and helping him, and he'll do fine.

grendel said...

No school or club can substitute for a father's presence. A Dad has to be present and actively disciple his son, so that the son learns the correct lessons from victory and defeat. Sports and other boys absolutely will not make a boy into a man by themselves. Only a father can do that. And I recommend hunting if at all possible. Killing stuff teaches manliness in a way that handegg and tree hockey don't.

And to everyone throwing around the term "Autism" in incorrect ways,

SQT said...

I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees the value of not always homeschooling your kids. I started with my daughter but the programs where we lived were very small and offered very little social interaction. My husband and I decided that the social was just as important as the academic because we're naturally introverted and we didn't want our kids to be socially backwards. My daughter is in high school now and doing very well, so I'm comfortable with our choice. Luckily we live in a conservative area with an excellent school district-- lots of stay-at-home moms.

seymourbutz said...

Slightly tangential: As a lifelong omega (with a splash of gamma) in my late twenties with an alpha father, that bit about BD’s own dominance quashing his son’s natural rebelliousness hit home. Blessedly, and due in part to the help of this blog, I’ve slowwwly been making the transformation to sigma over the past year, and one of the most obvious changes is that when my father displays aggression during visits, I’m very comfortable matching the display where as a younger man I would try to placate him or out-manœvre him verbally. If you’re willing to make more posts on the topic, Mr Day, I for one would be extremely interested in the matter of father–son relations of various sociosexual rank pairings, especially since I’d like to pass on as much as I can of what I learn to my own eventual children.

LibertyPortraits said...

Seems like a good prescription but I dunno, I guess it depends. I mean, my father was, and is, a lot more alpha than I will ever be, he was a marine and then worked in a car factory, riding horses and reading Louis L'Amour were his hobbies. Needless to say, my father had me play a lot of competitive sports, band, chess club but also played video games with me (where I would handily beat him). Despite his manly example I still became a full blown Gamma due to genetics (very skinny/awkward teenage-hood) and the church. The one thing my father never taught me was how to deal with the opposite sex. He taught me cars, guns, horses, camping, sports, and handyman stuff but never women. I don't know if this helps anyone, but I only overcame Gammatude by reading Vox and red pill stuff and the truth setting me free. If children don't know the truth of socio-sexual relations, or learn it by proxy through raw experience, they may never climb out of that mold.

maniacprovost said...

chess is a terrible idea at this point in time. This kid needs 24/7 masculine, physical, violent fun and sports.

For this kid, probably. But not everybody thinks physical, violent sports are fun. Some kids are bored to tears by team sports, and they need to do martial arts or swimming or something. There's also the fact that psychology is situational. If he's a Beta on the football field and a gamma when doing activities he associates with female family members, like board games, then Chess might be a more direct soluton.

Earl Thomas said...

' The one thing my father never taught me was how to deal with the opposite sex.'

My father barely taught me much about that directly. I had to watch it more with how he interacted with my mother.

RC said...

For all those non-alpha fathers wanting to raise alpha dog sons, please keep in mind that the alpha life brings many challenges, risks, and difficulties that those lower on the sociosexual hierarchy offload onto the alphas in their midst. It's not necessarily the optimum lifestyle to which to aspire and is certainly not all upside for the alpha or his family. I say this not to dissuade you from teaching your sons to lead (as all men have to at least lead their families) but to understand that there are consequences to lead dog, some of which might be unintended.

Mr.MantraMan said...

Take him shooting

Markku said...

Now that I think about it, I cannot think of a single alpha that managed to raise an alpha son.

Earl Thomas said...

'Now that I think about it, I cannot think of a single alpha that managed to raise an alpha son.'

Raising a child can only do so much...a lot comes with the experience a man picks up during his life too.

My dad gave me plenty of advice about how the world operated...it wasn't until I got out of my adolescence that I started to listen to him.

Mr.MantraMan said...

If you don't know much about guns but are not afraid of them then go buy some ARs and head to a Max Velocity Tactical training school, where you will learn how to handle the firearms in a correct manner but also start the learning curve on how to work in a team. This could come in handy

dw said...

"Now that I think about it, I cannot think of a single alpha that managed to raise an alpha son."

My best friend's father managed to do it. Three of his sons are alphas. But I'm thinking in their case it's more genetic, as their grandfather was also an alpha and their father took a more hands off approach to raising kids.

mmaier2112 said...

I don't see where public school could help, unless you want him in the principal's office and/or suspended or ARRESTED for defending himself the way he should.

Scouts might be a good idea depending on the troop but my nephew quit his pack some years back because "It's just like school". Even in the early 80s, our den and pack were thoroughly feminized and were all about credentialism.

Hank Brown said...

Pretty good advice, Vox. I disagree with those who would take him out of home schooling, though. Public schools and the boys he would interact with there would likely not teach him anything useful in learning to be a man.

Mom said...

Teach him to work around the house. Keep him busy with a lot of chores. Require competence.
Teach his sisters to respect masculine traits and not to mock "dumb boy stuff."
Make sure Mom is respectful of masculinity, in you and him.
Not sure public schools are teaching young men to be strong and masculine. I'd trust them to do that like I'd trust Hollywood.
Home schooling is the best place to do this, if you allow him to do more boy stuff, don't force him to sit all day, get around some mature boys and men, take him with you everywhere you can, and have him work beside you as much as possible.

Markku said...

Teach his sisters to respect masculine traits and not to mock "dumb boy stuff."

I think that's important more to the sisters' benefit, than the son's. The son has to be able to take female ridicule without losing his frame. Rather, I would say, tell the boy that those traits are valuable, and all girls are just blind to this because they have never had the experience of being a boy. Everyone always ridicules what one doesn't know, and what one fears a little.

ajw308 said...

Now that I think about it, I cannot think of a single alpha that managed to raise an alpha son.
Nate's got one.

ajw308 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ajw308 said...

@Markku, That's the perfect opportunity to teach a son that women attempt to disqualify and how to reframe it while not spinning off on a Gamma delusion.

Hammerli280 said...

Thinking about this, I believe it's very important not to break a boy's spirit...and all too easy for an Alpha father to do so. I'd recommend getting him involved with OTHER men. Sports, hobbies, anything at all that will let him not be an appendage of his father. Give him a fighting chance.

MATT said...

Lol Nate isn't an Alpha.

CarpeOro said...

Reading military history and Robert E. Howard may also assist. Get some of the mind set of the warrior going. As long as the father makes sure he doesn't simply morph into a white knight there are many advantages to it. It probably was a factor in keeping me from sliding into Gamma or Omega when I was younger.

Jack Amok said...

Thinking about this, I believe it's very important not to break a boy's spirit...and all too easy for an Alpha father to do so.

You treat him like he's your valuable lieutenant, not like he's your completely replacable cannon fodder. Give him responsibility and let him discharge it according to his own ideas. If you gradually ramp up the responsibility, he'll be okay and when (not if but when) he screws up, you can have a constructive conversation about what he did right and wrong. Then send him back out to try again.

Keep a clear distinction between him standing up for himself and him challenging you. Not every disagreement is a challenge. There's a wide gap where he can have his own ideas without it being a challenge.

Marissa said...

Consider having your wife join a homeschool collective where he can be around other boys.

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