Tuesday, March 17, 2015

Shameless rhetoric

This is an example of why it is usually pointless to engage in dialectic with a woman. Consider how much dishonesty there is in just these two sentences written in response to the government of Iran taking steps to reverse its declining demographics:
To try and control women is the opposite of fitness. It is a characteristic you only see in weak and powerless men.
It would be hard to state anything that would be more diametrically opposed to the truth. Fitness, in biological terms, is a description of a specimen that has successfully reproduced. To control women, and to ensure that they reproduce, is virtually the definition of fitness, not its opposite.

And here we see revealed the fundamental female tendency towards solipsism. Because the woman doesn't like the idea of being controlled, that is bad. And fitness is good. Therefore, controlling women cannot be fit, because she doesn't like it.

You cannot engage in dialectic with anyone who insists on redefining commonly understood terms. Indeed, that is the first sign of an individual limited to rhetorical communication.

43 comments:

Yohami said...

"woman doesn't like the idea of being controlled"

Unless Christian Gray is doing it, then they weep for more and want babies.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

Unless Christian Gray is doing it, then they weep for more and want babies.

And they masturbate in theaters to him dominating another woman....

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Because muh feelz.

Ron said...

Because the woman doesn't like the idea of being controlled by a weaker man than what her competition can get, that is bad.

fixed.

bob k. mando said...

To try and control women is the opposite of fitness. It is a characteristic you only see in weak and powerless men.


as Yoda would say, "Do, or do not. There is no try."

a powerful man WOULD control his woman ...

so, i'm not actually seeing where she's wrong. ;-p

hank.jim said...

I suppose a weak and powerless man marries a woman that refuses to have children. This happens a lot.

Doom said...

Oh? Hehehe It starts with gaining control, then relegating that back to her. If done right, while she isn't great at it so may need to be overridden, lending her the controls back is necessary so other projects may go forward. How well it works depends on how well you train her to self-control, how well her family and experience has taught her, and possibly some natural talent at such, and how well you keep an eye on it. It is a management skill, or lack of it, that ends huge problems. It will lead to fights, but if she can win, really win, you are unworthy in her eyes. Women hand you their leash. If you don't take it and use it well, they get confused and resentful, and look for another. Lovers, initially. Some women are completely broken though, so... choose among them carefully.

Lies? I don't know about that. It is simply how women often speak/write. Some few of them understand what they are doing, most don't. Doesn't matter what they think. It's an offer she thinks someone can't refuse.

Earl Thomas said...

'To try and control women is the opposite of fitness. It is a characteristic you only see in weak and powerless men.'

The Bible agrees.

A constant dripping on a day of steady rain
And a contentious woman are alike;
He who would restrain her restrains the wind,
And grasps oil with his right hand.

Proverbs 27:15-16

It's a lesson in futility for a man to try and control a woman...especially a contentious woman.

'Unless Christian Gray is doing it, then they weep for more and want babies.'

From the sound of it...he was just as weak as the rest of them and she was the manipulator. Didn't he become a stalker and in the end change everything for her?

Corvinus said...

To try and control women is the opposite of fitness. It is a characteristic you only see in weak and powerless men.

Sifting the womanese, I'll have to agree with bob mando's take on this. Women hate it if men make it transparently clear they're trying to woo, control, win over, or whatever them. But if the men just do it as if it's in their nature, they're down with it.

To control women, and to ensure that they reproduce, is virtually the definition of fitness, not its opposite.

But career and empowerment!

I suppose a weak and powerless man marries a woman that refuses to have children. This happens a lot.

Damaged man marries damaged woman, both fail to reproduce. Give 'em both Darwin Awards!

bob k. mando said...

Earl Thomas said...
From the sound of it...he was just as weak as the rest of them and she was the manipulator. Didn't he become a stalker and in the end change everything for her?



it's almost as if you don't understand the tropes of Adolescent Female Power Fantasies.

Earl Thomas said...

I understand that even the man who is dominate in the bedroom can still be weak in a manipulative woman's eyes.

We all get the choreplay or white knighting weaknesses...we seem to overlook this weakness.

cailcorishev said...

This is one of those things that's technically true if you interpret it in just the right context, but gets repeated in other contexts to make false points.

It's true that weak men (Gammas) often try to "control" women in the sense of manipulation, with tools like sappy poetry and guilt trips. That's very different from a man (or a society) that actually controls women by putting true limits on their behavior. Real control with consequences can only be done by strong men, and women often respond well to it. It's the manipulation that creeps them out because that's their game.

Earl Thomas said...

'It's the manipulation that creeps them out because that's their game.'

Yes. A man can influence a woman with much more success than manipulating them. Women seem to go the manipulation route much more often because men respond to it.

Panzerdude said...

Besides Vox's points, there's the obvious logical flaw in that it takes "weak and powerless men" to implement the policy. The opposite is true. Only powerful men would have the ability to force women to do something.

I think that makes 3 lies or misrepresentations in just two sentences!

Earl Thomas said...

'Only powerful men would have the ability to force women to do something.'

Change force to influence. Trying to force a woman to do anything is a lesson in futility.

Dewave said...

Earl Thomas, that verse you quoted directly contradicts the conclusion you drew from it.

The verse says a contentious woman is bad because her husband cannot restrain her.

Explain how you made the leap to assuming that a woman being led by her husband is thus a bad thing.

professorastro said...

"Trying to force a woman to do anything is a lesson in futility."

I guess we should let all the rapists out of prison.

Earl Thomas said...

'Explain how you made the leap to assuming that a woman being led by her husband is thus a bad thing. '

Being led and being controlled are two different things.

Trust said...

My sister posted this quote on Facebook today: "When a man realizes that a woman is not an opponent that he has to defeat with lies and mind games; but that she's a teammate that he can succeed with, his life changes forever."

Not surprisingly, she got countless likes, you go girls, and male bashing comments. Even less surprisingly, my sister is 37 and remains single.

The real point is that women are great at projecting their misconduct onto men. Using lies and mind games in relationships is overwhelmingly a female strategy.

Yohami said...

she meant that alpha men should realize they dont have to trick women into bed because women want to go to bed with them already

Jose Coces said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Jose Coces said...

The same goes for Gammas.

Res Ipsa said...

"When a man realizes that a woman is not an opponent that he has to defeat with lies and mind games; but that she's a teammate that he can succeed with, his life changes forever."

Rare is the man who finds such a women.

The assumption in this quote is that all females are the "teammate" type of women, and that they want to be on a team and put the team first. Which would be great if it were true.

my sister is 37 and remains single.

It would be interesting to know what her n is. I doubt the world has very many 37 year old single virgin females who want to be part of a "team" with a husband as team captain.

bob k. mando said...

Trust said...
Even less surprisingly, my sister is 37 and remains single.



so she just told the whole world that she's approaching the Wall and is tiring of the Alpha cock carousel and "why won't one of these Bad Boys who make my panties wet settle down and marry me?"



Earl Thomas said...
We all get the choreplay or white knighting weaknesses...we seem to overlook this weakness.


yes.

because magical shiny vagina conquers all.

which is the primary trope of Adolescent Female Power Fantasies.

Trust said...

Her n is probably pretty high. She has a 9 year old son whose father just got out of prison. I wish I was making that up.

Sad thing about my sister is she is attractive and kind. But she fails to see her relationship problems have less to do with the quality of men available and more to do with the quality of men she chooses.

Her son's father was already an ex con before he impregnated her, and he got busted again soon after. Sure, men marry bad women all the time, but those women more often than not put on a premarital dog and pony show first and do a 180 after. Men don't marry a woman that admits to hating sex and then wonder why he's celibate, but women frequently get involved with criminals then act shocked that he doesn't step up.

LP 999/Eliza said...

No. success can happen if anmesty int'l would find some other cause to reek havoc/mis inform on.

Stating, nudging how much pride there is in marrying well and birthing healthy kids while staying well/trim is best. Iranian women might not need their speech, they probably already accept or or reject it.

bob k. mando said...

Trust said...
I wish I was making that up.



i feel bad for you son. because you have to live with this.

but i did already say most of that. i just didn't know her specifics.



Trust said...
But she fails to see


no, she doesn't 'fail' to see.

she does not WANT to see.

and she's gone through most of her life not having to be responsible for her actions. because vagina.

why should she start taking responsibility now when she can continue to blame men as a nebulous group? it's always worked before.

oh, yeah. that whole Wall thing is coming up ...

Earl Thomas said...

'but women frequently get involved with criminals then act shocked that he doesn't step up.'

That's the thing...men have this weakness where we rationalize women's behavior. She was just too naive to realize that former ex con was going to go all ex con and she learned her lesson. In reality, women have a good idea what they are doing. Some women only want the tingles and some women want the stable homelife.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

At 37 she's probably already hit the Wall, and the only "teammates" she can look forward to are the little furry ones at the local cat shelter.

"All the lonely people / Where do they all belong?"

Dewave said...

"Being led and being controlled are two different things."

A leader who is not in control of his subordinates is not a leader. Leadership requires a measure of control. You can have control without leadership, but I do not think the reverse is true.

Also, how did you go from 'restrains' to 'controls'.? I think we would both agree a parent places restraints on their childrens behaviour...does this mean they control their children? If so, 'controlling' someone cannot automatically be assumed a bad thing.

At any rate, a verse deploring the fact a contentious woman cannot be restrained by her husband quite obviously be used to argue in favour of such lack of restraint.

Bob said...

"It is a characteristic you only see in weak and powerless men."

That bit is the best for me heh. Silly bint should be asked if has any data to back up that claim

My eyes and ears report the opposite. Plus how can weak and powerless men control women?...

ray said...

To try and control men is the opposite of femininity. It is a characteristic you only see in weak and un-fit females.

Earl Thomas said...

'A leader who is not in control of his subordinates is not a leader.'

And the same can be said about a subordinate who doesn't follow their leader isn't a subordinate.

I'll put it this way when it comes to control...it's the difference between manipulation and influence.

SmokeyJoe said...

@ Earl

Proverbs 27:15 "A continual dropping in a very rainy day And a contentious woman are alike."

A contentious woman is like those raindrops that just keep falling all day. After so long its just irritating. Knit picking, criticism, bitching never happy.

Proverbs 27:16 "Whosoever hideth her hideth the wind, And the ointment of his right hand, which bewrayeth itself."

If you are going to try and constrain this contentious person on your own it'll be like trying to constrain the wind. Your wasting your time and sanity.

To harness the wind takes a collective effort. This is in effect what the Iranian gov't is doing. The men shouldn't have let it get to that point to begin with but we all drop the ball sometimes. It takes men to build and maintain a civilization. These men see the threat to their civilization and in this case have decided to fix the problem.

Doom said...

I almost hate it when he sees reason. Yes, YOU. Knowing is so much worse than guessing, or lying, or most of what passes as civility. Good show, though. *duck* I don't wish to see you murdered by the truth you speak. Inevitable, as with me. So be it? If need be. though not likely, as with another. Amen.

Mindstorm said...

Isn't an unsubordinate subordinate a contradiction of terms?

Mindstorm said...

^ Wrong translation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradictio_in_terminis

thetruthisstrangerthanfiction said...

Oh my goodness... "Fitness, in biological terms, is a description of a specimen that has successfully reproduced. To control women, and to ensure that they reproduce, is virtually the definition of fitness, not its opposite."

????

You're about two steps shy of going the full distance and praising the virtues of the Nazi's Lebensborn program.

Your attitude towards women is virtually indecipherable from the "Master race's" view of the "lesser races, whereby your inferiors are considered needing to be controlled in order to stay within the bounds of their "natural place" in the world.

I honestly don't think you have a clue as to the true, dark nature of the sort of things you are spouting here, which rest squarely on the kinds of arguments long made by slavers and colonizers and Eugenicists who applied a form of Evolutionary dogma (sometimes garbed with religious or Christian trimmings) to undergird their "privileged status"...

Noah B said...

"You're about two steps shy of going the full distance and praising the virtues of the Nazi's Lebensborn program."

Genetic fallacy

SarahsDaughter said...

A rabbit hole led me to insanitybytes site, it wasn't clear that she was the one who made the comment the OP is about: https://insanitybytes2.wordpress.com/2015/03/17/shameless-dialectic/

agalltyr said...

Women only need to be controlled if they do not have self-control, which is the same as with men. But the assumption that women as a whole are incapable of self-control is a sexist, oppressive, misogynistic assumption.

For example, if public nudity were legal, do you think all women would walk around nude or only some? Right now, any woman can post a nude picture on the Internet, but only some do.

Not all women are mindless whores. There are always exceptions to the rule. Let the evil ones burn in Hell, and save the good. The good deserve freedom.

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