Friday, March 6, 2015

Alpha Mail: Diagnosis Gammma 3

The third and final part of GW's email:
This loosely relates to the bottom part of list about women

I've made shockingly poor decisions over the years. Going abroad with one woman after only knowing her for a month or so, given my own limitations/problems and that she appeared a little highly strung herself this was never going to work. She needs somebody who's a bit of a rock, perhaps like most women. I think my anxiety, insecurity all those things probably make most women very uncomfortable or even repulsed.

I remember an incident on that holiday that stuck with me. Walking back to room from beach, she was wearing a top but had not put her bikini top back on. A group of "lads" made a comment towards her, cant remember what it was but was to do with lack of bikini underneath. My reaction was really poor I think I slightly moved away from her, not a lot, but body language that I'm guessing is me backing down to bigger males. I also didn't put my arm round her or anything like that. Completely bottled it. She wasn't happy with this at all, and once we moved away from them she said why didn't I say something etc. I think having run this over a thousand times I should have moved round between them and her, put my arm round her, and either said something or gave them a look. Ive no idea what though. My natural reaction there seems to be back down.

We also had a "fight" where I got slapped across the face. I was boiling over at the time but had no idea what to do. I'm glad I didn't hit back I think if I had things would have got a lot worse.
Moral factors aside, I don't see what is wrong with going on a trip with a woman one doesn't know well. If you don't know her well before it, you certainly will after it. Like most Gammas, GW's instincts are bad with regards to women, and the combination of his cowardly reactions with his tendency to narcissistically overanalyze himself tends to create a downward spiral.

It's fine not to say anything back to a group of men when you're outnumbered and they are looking for an excuse to impress a girl by beating you up. But actually ceding her to them on the basis of the threat they are offering, which is what he metaphorically did with his moving away from her, was pretty bad. In that sort of situation, she's not necessarily looking for you to go and get yourself killed, but she is looking for reassurance that you will defend her if necessary. As GW surmises, the right thing to do would have been to make a protective gesture, such as putting your arm around her. The Alpha response of angrily shouting back at the group and challenging them would have been the wrong one; this is why Alphas get their asses kicked nearly as often as the lowest ranks do.

Backing down is not always bad. And there are better and worse ways to back down. I probably would have just raised an eyebrow and snorted at them myself. However, what compounded the error was when he let her slap him across the face; she already viewed him as a coward of sorts, and she confirmed it later when he let her physically dominate him too. You don't have to hit a woman back (although I would, and have), but you do need to physically dominate her and make her submit and apologize if she strikes you. The "I'm a stoic man and I don't care" routine is correctly perceived as psychological weakness, especially in response to something as openly challenging and dismissive as a slap. If you spin her around, put her in an arm bar, and shove her down on the bed or over a couch as if you're about to take her from behind, then tell her to apologize, she will not have any cause for complaint about you hitting her back nor will she view you as weak and submissive.

Another way to respond to being slapped by a woman is to spit in her face. The slap is not meant to seriously harm, it is primarily a gesture of contempt. But spitting is even more contemptuous, leaves no marks, and is probably more psychologically damaging to a woman than being slapped or hit. I could be wrong, but I suspect most women would rather be shoved or slapped than have a man spit in her face.

I also went to Northern Spain with another woman in more trying circumstances as we went in a van, on ferry, and through France. I found this very hard. Given I was completely out of my comfort zone I just ended up doing whatever she told me to do. This seemed to quite suit her and she was happy driving the van and leading the way, inside I was unravelling gradually, didn't help that French people seemed to stare at us a lot. Not sure whether her driving the van and me looking completely lost showed, may just be paranoid about that. Given she wasn't approving of me drinking on the way my normal crutch wasn't available. By the time I got to destination I was ready to burst. She appeared to have no idea whatsoever that I wasn't happy about it all. To what extent it shows her lack of perception or my ability to hide myself I'm not sure. I have been told before that I can hide my feelings well, or at least people don't realize what I'm thinking. I don't really agree with them, I think the signals are there just some people don't seem to see them. I feel like my internal insecure self is completely transparent to people.

I'll add one more thing. I went on holiday for a week with parents, my sister, her two sons and the father of the youngest boy. Again a poor decision for me to go given I know what I'm like I will struggle to handle it and end up being hard work for other people. There wasn't anything that particularly stood out but I felt to some degree like a sullen adolescent, given I was 38 this just encourages me to hate myself. My father hired a van and did the driving, my sister and boyfriend did a lot of the cooking, he's a chef. I did very little and wasn't really expected too. The only time i was enjoying myself was in the pool with the oldest brother messing about jumping on lilos etc, and playing with the little one pushing him around in his inflatable boat.

I was drinking every day bar one where I stayed in bed most of the day. I don't think I said a lot the whole trip, but my mind would be racing over and over thinking what I should be saying, or asking myself why I'm not saying anything. There was one evening where I got a bit ranty but generally speaking nothing particularly bad happened. Too me though in my head the trip was disastrous, there was no animosity but I didn't talk to my parents for a few weeks after and also stopped going out on fridays because one of the guys knew I was going and I didn't want to have to talk about it. I'm not sure why it seems disastrous to me though. Am I just expecting too much of myself? I think I should have helped out with the food more but other than that I didn't really have any responsibilities. I just feel like I should be more enthusiastic about things, take the lead in some way, I just felt like a dead weight floating along. I'd love for those boys to look up to me etc but I just feel completely pathetic. I don't know perhaps its all to do with alcohol and "depression" and I'm just over thinking everything.
The biggest problem that I see here is GW is hyper self-conscious. He seldom simply acts, but he is constantly attempting to manage the narrative. How did I come off to X there? If I say A, will that make her say B or C? He is, without question, overthinking everything. A normal Delta would love to go on a vacation with his family and have no responsibilities for a change. But since GW has so few responsibilities, it's not a vacation for him, it's a reminder that he isn't a normal boy, which then makes him feel insecure, which then makes him obsess more about it, and so on into the downward spiral.

GW is, quite simply, jumping at shadows. He is so obsessed with himself that he cannot even realize that NO ONE GIVES A FUCK ABOUT WHAT HE DOES. I would remind him to recall how much he thought about what the guy who knew he was going on the trip was doing. That's exactly how much thought the guy gave to his trip.

Of course, lets face it, as afraid as he was that the guy might ask about the trip, GW would probably find a way to be offended if the guy didn't ask, then demand to know why the guy hadn't asked about it. This is how Gammas construct their own prisons.

So, here is my advice:
  • Stop getting drunk. Three drinks max per day, no more.
  • Get over yourself. Your self-obsession is destroying you. Try focusing on others instead of yourself. Don't tell them what to do, don't advise them, but ask them what they think, what they want, and ask if you can help them.
  • Push yourself into your discomfort zone. Compete at a higher level. Ask out a prettier girl than you normally would. Realize that failing is nothing to fear.
  • Always remember that other people care no more about your feelings and actions than you do about theirs. You are not the center of the universe. You are barely the pimple on the butt of the flea on the dog that is owned by someone who leaves very far out on the periphery of the universe, just like everyone else.

64 comments:

MATT said...

Damn guy. Lay off the alcohol.

Desiderius said...

This is like reading Dostoyevsky's Notes from the Underground. What a way to live.

MATT said...

Haha it really is something to travel through france in a van and instead of banging the girl relentlessly in the back of said van, you fume silently riding shotgun.

Earl Thomas said...

'I don't know perhaps its all to do with alcohol and "depression" and I'm just over thinking everything.'

Yes. An over analytical mind can paralyze the body.

JAY WILL said...

@MATT

The problem with laying off the alcohol is its likely I will just not go out or talk to anybody. Its a problem but without addressing the underlying problems its a crutch for me in social situations. I should stay off the shorts though.

The gamma tactic of trying to flip losing as winning, up as down etc is how I tend to relay these stories if at all. So I'll act like its funny, put on a front about it. Subjectively lots of these experiences are horrible, objectively I look pathetic. I then twist them into something else to make them more palatable. Thing is maybe I do make people think I'm joking, making it up, it wasn't that bad etc. I need to stop doing that and let the light of other peoples interpretations of me in. If I give them false info then I'm never going to get decent feedback.

Unknown said...

mmmm

Unknown said...

Problem with gammas is their "helicopter" Blue Pill parents shielded them from the best teacher in the world: FAILURE !

Euphimistically called "experience", there is no substitute for failure for imparting wisdom and building self-confidence.NONE! Its not that you fall, its that you get back up and keep going. As Edison said of his 999 attempts at discovering what substance could result in the filament to a long-lasting light bulb: "I didn't fail, I just learned which of a 1,000 sunstances didn't work, before I found one that did!" Lesson learned: Fail fast and often, learning from each failure.

Those shielded from its effects become these gamma-types.

MATT said...

I think a good smack, a manly job where you lift heavy things and work hard and basically fake it til you make it is in order. Stick to 2 drinks and look in the mirror and cut a promo like Ric Flair.

It isn't a magic antidote but it's a start. At the very least buy a pick and shovel and start digging. Then mix some cement in a wheel barrow and pour it in the ditch. Then break it up with a sledgehammer and start over again.

As fun as a jackhamner is, nothing beats breaking up a sidewalk slab with a big pry bar and sledgehammer

AmyJ said...

Having been well deservedly slapped before, I can say most women (who have provoked it) treat it like a victory. You get to hold your cheek in wounded vulnerability, and have a story to tell others to gain more sympathy. It plays well into our victim tendencies.

Haven't been spit on, but there's nothing to take away from that. It's gross, and would make for a gross story, one that would stay with you as you analyze why and how you "lost". A slap shows how you've "endured", but being spat upon? I sure wouldn't know how to respond.

JAY WILL said...

I think I'm making massive improvements in my head about this now. I've definitely never thought about things like this before.

From the other blog, "the key to writing Gamma is a man at the bottom of the totem pole who knows he should, by rights, be at the top because Special."

In my case I'm seeing that I have felt entitled the question is to what have I felt entitled? This sense of specialness is in me and I have to keep on feeding it, but its not getting fed with real achievement I'm feeding it with lies, fantasies etc etc. Using all the gamma tactics to kid myself in order to feed "the special one" buried deep in me. Oh! And how hungry is he, so very very hungry!

In Diagnosis Gamma 1 you said "He's leaving it a little late, but the raw material for self-improvement is there." This hit me a little at the time because I wondered what made you think that. The thing is I do objectively have some good level of potential, but its largely unfulfilled. Take for instance the pool, I've beaten quality players, I can actually do it. I'm not at the bottom of the pole but I'm not at the level of the pole that my potential would suggest I could be. Better to be one-time failed international than snarky local pool guy. One time failed international is huge success to normal people. Normal means well adjusted, and that means adjusted to social rank. I shouldn't adjust to my current level I have to go out there and turn my potential into objective reality if I just turn up and try I’ll get results. I'll be happy then, like that day I lost in a tournament. I turned up I had a good run, I was relieved when all the stress was over, but I felt good. Felt proud of myself.

I‘m the On the Waterfront gamma, "I coulda been a contender!" "But JW you didn't turn up, we never saw you!". My mate has always said to me you can't win anything under the duvet, and stop being a bedwetter. Instead of facing the challenges in front of me, I simply don't turn up or twist the challenges to make it seem like they don’t matter to me, but then fantasize about winning, about being the hero. I get to pick the ending and unsurprisingly I'm always golden boy. The lack of congruence between what’s going on in my head and outside of it is extremely painful, I'm so twisted up inside.

Some thoughts on where I need to go from here -

The “specialness” in me isn’t going away, I can’t destroy it. I have to stop feeding it with lies and fantasies and feed it with real achievement/improvement. This should be easier in things I’m already good at like pool, far more testing in things I’m not so good at. I’m gonna start with the stuff I’m good at and try to build confidence from there. Other areas of my life will probably be harder because I will have to accept I’m either clueless or incompetent. The gamma special tantrum-child mentality probably will fight that.

General point about diagnosing gammas -

Fantasies play a huge part in how I feed the gamma. For example, in pool I imagine world-beating shots, crowd applause, hero worship. I also, imagine going up on stage making jokes, being funny. I’m nearly always winning. If I’m not winning, in losing I’m really still winning. I’ll take it well and will win through the respect of others, or I will win through some kind of sacrifice. I’m always centre stage, and its always going to work out.

It may well be that other types of gamma fantasy are much nastier than this. Most of my fantasies are about things which would get huge social approval in real life. Like saving family members lives. I think if things were much worse its possible that my fantasies would be much more negative than they are. Maybe I’d fantasize about other people failing or suffering a lot more. The gamma fantasy in me is that I have a seat at the alpha table, my fantasy is never that the alpha table burns to the ground and the alphas with it.

Dystopic said...

"Problem with gammas is their "helicopter" Blue Pill parents shielded them from the best teacher in the world: FAILURE !"

Very true. However, I would like to point out that the reverse can cause the same sickness. In my case, it was most likely my step mother, who was physically abusive in the extreme, to the extent of closed-fist punching a 10 year old child repeatedly for trivial matters. On the one hand, fear of failure is created by not giving the child the chance to fail. On the other hand, the same effect is created by making the punishment for even the most minor failure extreme and disproportionate. Either will produce a pathological fear and a tendency to fantasize a win instead of risking a failure.

The common thread is poor parenting and, in particular, mothers who do not understand their most important duty: how to properly take care of children. Feminized fathers are no great help, either.

MATT said...

Most people are too retarded to have kids. While moat would say "mind your own business" when witnessing terrible parenting, I believe a good amount of public shaming would do some good, even if it only serves as an example of parenting styles to avoid.

JAY WILL said...

One other point. In dealing with gammas like me you have to find a way to get to the part of me that is able to talk to you on here and be honest. If not, then either ignore/avoid or if attempting to squash realize that I'm not going to like it and I'm quite clever in a cunning way. Petty victories for me feed the gamma. If you want to lock horns you may have to finish me off in some way. Is it worth it to you?

At a society level, there must be thousands of these bubbles everywhere, they need bursting. In the long run avoid/ ignore won't work so its either squash/burst or find the good bit in them. Whats brutal is, at least in potential, I've got a lot going for me. If I was like this but had little going for me I'd be a nightmare.

I'm think I'm completely unaware that normal people have no idea that this is going on. Maybe most people can't see through me at all.

JAY WILL said...

@MATT

Definitely agree about the physical thing. Most enjoyable job I ever had was gutting a shop out. Lasted about 5 weeks, worked every day, put the internal dialogue to sleep.

Dystopic said...

"In dealing with gammas like me you have to find a way to get to the part of me that is able to talk to you on here and be honest."

I think this is part of why Vox runs this site. He's trying to give those of low SMV the leg up to deal with their own problems, rather than expect the world to deal a certain way with them. Few will listen, of course, but few is vastly better than none at all.

Earl Thomas said...

'He's trying to give those of low SMV the leg up to deal with their own problems, rather than expect the world to deal a certain way with them.'

'Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time.' 1 Peter 5:6

Sleepy said...

Some Aspie stuff here, but how would one reconcile the advice that one cease caring how one appears and simply act, versus advice that gammas/omegas are social rejects who need to get a clue on how they come across?

Vox said...

The “specialness” in me isn’t going away, I can’t destroy it. I have to stop feeding it with lies and fantasies and feed it with real achievement/improvement.

I get what you mean, but you have to understand that IT DOESN'T EXIST. There is no hidden kingdom of which you are the king.

Earl Thomas said...

'how would one reconcile the advice that one cease caring how one appears and simply act, versus advice that gammas/omegas are social rejects who need to get a clue on how they come across? '

Well some good advice I once read is that we are judged not by our failures, but by our efforts. It's better to try and risk failure than to worry about how you appear and do nothing at all.

Rek. said...

@ vox

"There is no hidden kingdom of which you are the king."

Realize that 99,9% of guys (or maybe I am just full-blown gamma and I can to see that) would agree that you are a modern day king, very intelligent, handsome, athletic, financially independant and paired up with a cuttie + a kid who'll most likely end up being a winner, if not already.

So are you saying, "Tough luck guys. But there is no hope." or "I was dealt great cards. I played them well but I am still a nobody." which to a gamma means the same thing. You are still successful in both instances.

Sociosexual hierachy seems to be nothing more than genetic determinism (with the obvious wiggle room). Easy to accept when you have it all.

Or maybe some people just have those extravagant expectations as to what a king looks like. Lost in a fantasy world ... nah, nobody is that delusionnal.

MATT said...

@jay will

Building something is better.

Btw I am not claiming this is going to lead to a 180. I know many construction workers who are total Gammas. Even bosses and owners. It doesnt always carry over. Its just a step that when taken in the proper mindset, with the right goals in mind, can help.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

@Fek ~ Sounds as if someone has a crush.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Matt is on to something. A lot of Gamma could be wiped out by hard physical labour, also military service (FFL anyone?), hiking through Africa, climbing the Andes, working on a sheep station in Australia, etc. Modern men are too soft.

Rek. said...

@Bogey ~ I am sure I could fall madly in love with you ... if only you were nicer.

JAY WILL said...

The hyper-conscious thing is spot on, everything I say goes through some kind of mental sieve. I realize that I'm gamma-soul splurging on here, more self-obsession but I have to do it to workout whats actually happening in given situations.

Example - few weeks ago went to pub as normal, often stay at bar for a bit before going to dartboard. The pub was reasonably full. I got stuck in a situation I normally avoid, I'm standing at bar and two other guys are talking and I've ended up in their conversation. Problem is I'm stone cold sober, prone to getting red in the face, uncomfortable with people looking at me, and they were proper blokey bloke non-spergs. I don't really understand whats happening in that situation. I'm completely confused, I don't know what to say, things pop into my head but I don't want to say them because I'll become centre of attention. I'm going into fight or flight mode over something that to me is meant to be an easy peasy enjoyable normal thing that every normal person deals with and passes with flying colours! Is it any wonder that I end up hating myself for being so pathetic? Its soul destroying to me. Twenty odd years Ive been like that. I have NO IDEA how to turn myself off.

I've been understanding that situation through the fight or flight prism. Adding the social hierarchy to it all maybe makes more sense of it. Those guys are bigger than me, literally hairier than me, hugely non-spergy. I'm intimidated by them. What I'm starting to think is that normal people don't do that, I'm not normal, and I have to accept it to move on. I should accept the objective reality that they ARE intimidating to me, that it is setting fight or flight off and its not MY FAULT that those feelings/emotions kick in. Whats my fault is however I react to it. Either avoid them which means knocking darts on the head cos the place is saturated with non-spergy tradesmen types or find the answer to it. I think their above me objectively, they are real men. This is where maybe the over-estimation of myself comes in again. Perhaps I am quite spergy in nature, those things are hard for me and I have to be more self-accepting of that. Those guys have some sort of superior social ranking to me that sends alarm bells off, I'm denying that reality. Something is happening in those situations, all normal social interaction, and I'm going into fight or flight in response.

Remember, all of the things I'm struggling with above are absolutely fundamental to living any sort of normal life. If you can't function there what else is there but fantasy? Also, is it any wonder that I never open up to people. If I did this is what they'd be getting. Its' not their fault their not like me so they shouldn't have to adapt to me. So I just shut up, create my own pathetic little world in my head to cope with it.

This has all been very helpful. I'm talking too much now so I'll leave it there. I'm going to try and apply all this to future social interactions and see what happens.

Brad Andrews said...

You can be a king of you own kingdom. You just need to have the right perspective and realize that kingdom may only include you and may be subservient to others.

====

Society does not support good parenting. You will get actively undermined if you try to instill some solid values into your children.

Brad Andrews said...

You can be a king of you own kingdom. You just need to have the right perspective and realize that kingdom may only include you and may be subservient to others.

====

Society does not support good parenting. You will get actively undermined if you try to instill some solid values into your children.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

@ Fek ~ Yeah, I get that all the time.

MATT said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rek. said...

@ Bogey ~ All the time? Guys hitting on you? Come out, already!

MATT said...

Laguna beach, i wouldnt recommend military service.

Dystopic said...

"Sociosexual hierachy seems to be nothing more than genetic determinism (with the obvious wiggle room). Easy to accept when you have it all."

No. While genetics is a factor, it does not seem to be the sole or even primary factor. There are men who are athletically built, talented, and won a genetic lottery yet they are still Gamma. Then there are short, dumpy guys without a lick of talent who are Alpha. My suspicion is that Gammaness is mostly a function of poor parenting rather than genetics. Take me. I am tall, reasonably well-suited for matters of physical endurance, healthy and have a proper BMI. Why, then, am I Gamma? Psychology provides the answer.

The hierarchy is actually kinder to men, for it is women who are more strongly bound by genetics (looks) than men. With the exception of Gammas and Omegas, the ranking is actually fine for most men, too. Deltas genuinely do not want the leadership role. If you have ever spent a lot of time with enlisted military men, you will understand what I mean. Sometimes, I accidentally say the word 'sir', for it is ingrained in me by my father to use respectful modes of address.

Invariably enlisted men say "I am no sir, I work for a living." This is a Delta showing pride in his rank. A Beta thinks similarly "I am loyal officer." Alphas, naturally extract a measure of satisfaction from being at the top. I don't know much about Sigmas, but Vox seems reasonably satistfied with his life so I will posit that they, too, enjoy their rank.

Only Gammas and Omegas loathe their own rank. Gammas because they are delusional and have not made peace with their station, and Omegas for obvious reasons.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

@ Fek ~ Your inner kingdom is showing.

@ Matt ~ Private security/mercenary work. Oil fields. I suppose working in retail environment can also be beneficial, but today's Millennials lack the aptitude.

Vox said...

So are you saying, "Tough luck guys. But there is no hope." or "I was dealt great cards. I played them well but I am still a nobody." which to a gamma means the same thing. You are still successful in both instances.

No, I am saying there is no kingdom. You will never be a king and rule over men with an iron fist. But you can aspire to being able to be a real boy, you can aspire to being a normal man, if only you will give up that damnable insistence that you are more special than everyone else.

Look, you should not be going into that bizarre fight or flight mode simply because you find yourself in a normal conversation with two men. A normal man simply says "hey, what's up" and goes into small talk. But you're terrified because they might realize that they might penetrate your false narrative and expose you to yourself, so you end up behaving erratically.

Don't you see that you cannot become normal if you insist on being special? The only way you can lose the fear that puts you into that fight or flight mode is to stop pushing a false narrative on yourself and everyone else. Above all, you need to relax and accept yourself for who you are. Do you have it all? No. Are you dying of cancer or living in a third world shithole? No.

You have it better than 90 percent of the human race. Stop destroying your life in envy of the other 10 percent.

Earl Thomas said...

'A lot of Gamma could be wiped out by hard physical labour.'

It seems more like a mental/spiritual thing. Sure they'd benefit from physical labor...but that only serves as a temporary relief until the work is done.

MATT said...

I used to be hard on men exhibiting the Gamma traits but this series has opened my eyes. I can't relate to this strong desire to lead and be adored while refusing to accept you arent wanted or even capable.

Rek, don't say 'cutie'. Its creepy.

de ti said...

This series needs its own tab/keyword on this site.

cailcorishev said...

Realize that 99,9% of guys (or maybe I am just full-blown gamma and I can to see that) would agree that you are a modern day king, very intelligent, handsome, athletic, financially independent and paired up with a cutie + a kid who'll most likely end up being a winner, if not already.

The difference is that he built that kingdom. He may have been born with certain useful attributes, but intelligence and good looks won't get you anywhere if you're too lazy or fearful to apply them.

The Gamma, on the other hand, waits for a kingdom to come along and recognize him as its rightful heir and beg him to take the throne.

Gunnar Thalweg said...

Excellent series of posts and I can identify with GW's issues. I've been there and sometimes I still am. It really is a matter of getting to a different place in your own head. Jay Will has to learn to stop feeding into his thoughts and feelings and to identify truly with himself ... I'd recommend some cognitive-behavioral therapy and a stoic detox, as well as steering clear of alcohol for at least 90 days. The drinking is not helping his depression, and there may be an actual alcohol problem here. I'd also recommend steering clear of porn and learning some game. Everything he needs to do amounts to simplify, simplify, simplify.

Tommy Hass said...

"Another way to respond to being slapped by a woman is to spit in her face. The slap is not meant to seriously harm, it is primarily a gesture of contempt. But spitting is even more contemptuous, leaves no marks, and is probably more psychologically damaging to a woman than being slapped or hit. I could be wrong, but I suspect most women would rather be shoved or slapped than have a man spit in her face. "

*slow claps* Something I've been thinking for a while.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Another way to respond to being slapped by a woman is to spit in her face

I imagine there are more than a few modern girls out there who would enjoy this.

Dystopic said...

"I imagine there are more than a few modern girls out there who would enjoy this."

Quite so. And I've known plenty that would enjoy a return slap, as well.

Natalie said...

Honestly curious - a lot of the these Gamma behaviors are things I recognize from being emotionally abused as a child. There's this sense of constantly walking on eggshells and trying to evaluate people's reactions to you. Good reaction = increased status (favored child), but a a bad reaction meant you were about to get pretty brutally told off. It's taken me YEARS to overcome a lot of those tendencies, and they still come out under stress.

Natalie said...

Grr - ate part of my comment. Implied question - is abuse/neglect common in men with gamma backgrounds, or is the mechanism producing gamma males rather different?

macengr said...

There is a (deleted or radio) scene in Star Wars where Luke and Biggs are talking on Tatooine and Biggs tells Luke that the reason the rest of their friends don't like Luke is that they know Luke is special - that he'll get off Tatooine and be something someday and they'll live out their lives as nobodies there. That scene gave me comfort through many years but it also caused me trouble, because I eventually had to face the fact that I'm normal too - I am not "THE CHOSEN ONE" (tm). I still struggle with it, but it is absolutely necessary to give it up.

dw said...

By simply being born and living to adulthood, one has already won. The majority of the human race has never lived as long or as well as we do now. By being born in the West during the last 70 years, you're already supreme among the winners through history. Most of the human race dies before adulthood, most men have never reproduced, and most people have been peasants living in the dirt.

Want to be called on an adventure? Life is the adventure. You lived. You are already chosen. You didn't have to be born, but you were anyway. That's the whole point of the Hero's story, that he's called away on an adventure that's above and beyond him? Well it's here, and it's happening now.

The problem is...gammas are ungrateful for the success that's already been given to them. Surviving childbirth isn't enough, living to a healthy adulthood isn't enough, being born in the freakin United States isn't enough, there's always something(!) they're missing out on and it's the fantasy in their head that life dealt them a raw deal. They're like the wife who's unsatisfied with her Delta/Beta husband and pines for an imagined Alpha that she never had in the first place.

If Gammas could simply be grateful for the life they have, then they'd already be one step up on the hierarchy. But they can't, so they remain where they are.

rumpole5 said...

"If Gammas could simply be grateful for the life they have, ..."

Truer words were never spoken. I've given a lot but received far more from life than I had any right to expect.

Mr.MantraMan said...

How does the Democratic party appeal to the Gammas? How does the Democratic party make the Gammas useful to the party?

I believe in answering those two questions you will find much of the impetus for Gammas actually being counted these days, eg; if Scalzi was not useful to the narrative which is useful in electoral politics where would he be? My guess a self published nobody.

Johnny Caustic said...

I got stuck in a situation I normally avoid, I'm standing at bar and two other guys are talking and I've ended up in their conversation. Problem is I'm stone cold sober, prone to getting red in the face, uncomfortable with people looking at me, and they were proper blokey bloke non-spergs. I don't really understand whats happening in that situation. I'm completely confused, I don't know what to say, things pop into my head but I don't want to say them because I'll become centre of attention. I'm going into fight or flight mode over something that to me is meant to be an easy peasy enjoyable normal thing that every normal person deals with and passes with flying colours!

I've had similar feelings, if not so intense and mainly in the presence of beautiful women. Eventually I realized that I was compounding the intense stimulation by putting performance pressure on myself. Here's what worked for me.

- First, I gave myself permission to feel that way and to not try to be impressive in any way. I decided it's okay to just stand there silent and look like an idiot. This removed most of the performance pressure I was roasting myself in.

- Second, I focussed on fully feeling those fight-or-flight feelings and trying to enjoy them. Most people react to unpleasant emotions by trying to suppress them. Instead, I open myself up to those feelings and attempt (not always successfully) to turn them into excitement. One metaphor I like to use is that I'm trying to make my insides big enough to contain all those feelings without getting overwhelmed. (A related aside: I've found that a big key to seducing women is maintaining sexual tension and not letting the line go slack as most guys do because they find the tension unpleasant. These "hold the feeling" exercises have been great for improving my ability to, say, hold extended eye contact or handle women's tests without flinching.)

- Third, breath deeply. If you're a goal-oriented type who was good at schoolwork, make an exercise out of it: your homework is to build a reflexive association between that fight-or-flight feeling and deep breathing. Of course, the only way to get an A is to actually get into situations where you feel that strong fight-or-flight urge, and to actually breathe deeply while you're feeling that.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

because I eventually had to face the fact that I'm normal too - I am not "THE CHOSEN ONE" (tm). I still struggle with it, but it is absolutely necessary to give it up.

Good for you. There are some people--whole tribes of people in fact--who persist in these "chosen people" delusions.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Quite so. And I've known plenty that would enjoy a return slap, as well.

Yes. Women want to feel punished, women want to feel degraded, they want to feel used. [h/t Rivelino]. By the right man, of course.

Earl Thomas said...

What a woman wants and what a woman needs are two different things.

Jack Amok said...

Having been well deservedly slapped before, I can say most women (who have provoked it) treat it like a victory. You get to hold your cheek in wounded vulnerability, and have a story to tell others to gain more sympathy. It plays well into our victim tendencies.

Not to mention that a man who was man enough to slap a woman was interested enough to slap you.

Jack Amok said...

Implied question - is abuse/neglect common in men with gamma backgrounds, or is the mechanism producing gamma males rather different?

Abuse doesn't do it, but neglect might, especially neglect by his father. Lack of masculine role models and, possibly, too much estrogen* at the wrong phase of brain development are at the top of my list for likely culprits. Men who are raised by single mothers (or by women who dominate their husbands) learn female coping patterns. Instead of dreaming about being the Princesss waiting for her Prince, he dreams about being the Prince waiting for his Kingdom (complete with attached Princess).


* - do not feed your children soy-based baby formula. Soy is plant estrogen. It messes up brain development.


Ron said...
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Ron said...
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JAY WILL said...

I'm starting to see it better but maybe not as well as I first thought. I'm not getting the special status in the darts side I'm in. I think my late night drunken rants then are gamma frustration, I'm raging at the perceived injustice that I'm not getting my due reward. That I'm not feeling like top alpha and I'm lashing out in a self-sabotaging manner. So its an entitlement mentality that I have that doesn't fit with reality I'm undeserving of special attention.

Also I think the "specialness" I talked about is possibly a gamma reframe. The specialness me isn't the real me the real me isn't like that at all. All of it really is just me. So reframe to absolve myself from responsibility. Its my other self who's to blame for it, so don't hold me accountable etc. Hence when I go back in there I try to make it seem like it was like another guy who did it.

I may need some mantras like "I'm not special" to repeat in my head. I think I tend to avoid this because for whatever reason if I'm not special then perhaps everything will fall apart.

macengr said...

JW, it won't fall apart. It'll take some restructuring, for sure. But then you are free to just relax and be you. You don't have to worry what everyone is thinking, because since you aren't special, they have no particular reason to be focused on you. And believe me, thinking that the Alpha in you is being repressed by a gamma and if you could just get that gamma guy out of the way you'd be okay, is exhausting and fiction. Also, you can stop striving to be the mythical alpha anyway - in my case it was James Bond, and how realistic is that anyway. Giving it up helped me to see that first, he isn't what I want to be anyway, second, I wouldn't be happy as him, and third, by trying to stop being him, I stopped doing a lot of the things that were driving people away in the first place (Bond always has a ready quip, for example, but as pointed out in another post, constantly doing it is a gamma behavior

Anyway, just my two cents on the matter.

Kirk Parker said...

" However, what compounded the error was when he let her slap him across the face; she already viewed him as a coward of sorts, and she confirmed it later when he let her physically dominate him too. You don't have to hit a woman back (although I would, and have), but you do need to physically dominate her and make her submit and apologize if she strikes you. "

OK, but what on earth justifies the situation that she actually succeeds in striking you in the first place? (I leave out the scenario where she genuinely mounts an honest-to-gosh ambush on you... but then that's the sort of thing that should prompt an immediate and permanent break.) But her just slapping you? GMAB, why can't you block her and then go on from there?

liam barrett said...

Jay Will Get the book radical honesty. You have to drum it in to yourself to be authentic and genuine. It will start ridding you of the anxiety you get in social situation because you'll stop worrying about trying to live up to the false ideal you have created in your head. Like Vox said you're scared the false narrative you created in your head will be exposed. Helped me tremendously, now on rare occasions i do get it, its because i've gone back in to fantasy land again. All it take is a reminder to myself to be genuine, authentic and honest. Remind yourself to be them things everyday.

liam barrett said...

Also vulnerable and humble regarding failings.

Marissa said...

Second, I focussed on fully feeling those fight-or-flight feelings and trying to enjoy them. Most people react to unpleasant emotions by trying to suppress them. Instead, I open myself up to those feelings and attempt (not always successfully) to turn them into excitement.

This actually works, I've done it myself to overcome shyness and social awkwardness. Treat your emotional rollercoaster like an adventure instead of something to hide from. It's really terrifying, you'll fall on your face and make an ass of yourself socially, but you'll come out better in the end.

Most people won't even remember when you were shy and weird. It's like when someone loses a lot of weight, eventually you forget what they looked like way back when. Must be some kind of psychological phenomenon. Or maybe I have a bad memory.

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