Thursday, May 8, 2014

The face of Hell

I will not link to the stomach-turning piece at Matt Walsh's blog, but short of violence, I will observe that there is another effective way that men can combat the massive depravity that is abortion. In the comments at John C. Wright's journal, Rainforest Giant shows the way:
I had a girlfriend many long years ago. She told me she had three abortions with an earlier boyfriend. I was unable to look at her the same afterward and I ended our relationship. Just writing about it now I feel the same sense of physical sickness and soul-deep shock as when she told me.

Murdering our children will earn this nation a Judgement. Carthage was destroyed and sown with salt and they were pikers compared to us. What do we have coming? Will we who have stood aside and allowed it to happen share in that Judgement? Honestly, I only hope that my children and grandchildren are spared, for myself I’ll accept what comes. We all deserve it to some extent.
Do not date any woman who has had an abortion. Make it very clear that you will not involve yourself with any woman who would murder her own progeny. It is a non-negotiable. The reason the murderous abhumans that call themselves "feminists" work so hard to remove the shame and stigma from the monstrous act is because women are so highly susceptible to social rejection. That is their intrinsic weak point. That is the point to which men and women of moral standards must relentlessly apply pressure.

Women who claim to be "pro-choice" can and will change their thinking. In most cases, they haven't given the matter any thought; "pro-choice" it is the default position for most college-educated women. The ignorant thought can be overlooked, the evil action itself, never.

I suspect that a movement of men who make it clear that they will not involve themselves sexually or romantically with women who have had abortions will do more to end abortion than any political activity on the part of anti-abortion activists.

Feminism is the ideology of Hell and abortion is its face. Do not compromise with it.

91 comments:

The Observer said...

And this is what happens when the R-selected are allowed to flaunt their tendencies.

...Were I more cruel, nay, evil, I would turn a blind eye and let these women and any "partners" of theirs who may have pressured them cull themselves from the gene pool and sign themselves up for the massively increased risks of death from breast cancer, childbirth, and other ailments which have been linked to abortion.

spastic0plastic said...

Of course women conceal it, like they do with the number of sexual partners. Not sure if such a confession demonstrates unusual honesty, stupidity, or degeneracy, but really that guy is just teaching her to be more deceptive.

vashine said...

Amen. It is murder and it is evil, pure and simple. To call it any other thing, to use euphemisms is an egregious sin.

Any woman woman willing to cut off the life of her own progeny, her own flesh and blood, out of fear of mere social rejection or out of her own desire to secure a few more years of a comfortable lifestyle, has serious issues. If she has not fully addressed them, as in admitted FULLY to the evil nature of her act (a supreme act of selfishness) and repented before the Lord Christ, if she is not open about her past with others in order to HELP them (particularly younger women) avoid similar mistakes... then she has not fully repented. She has not fully accepted that she murdered her own child. It will affect her in so many ways. There will be a part of her emotional and spiritual makeup that will stay cold, very cold and dead, until true repentance can bring healing.

Only through Christ and His Truth do we truly live. Sin deadens us and abortion is a highly destructive sin.

Iowahine said...

Thank you for calling up men to be leaders. Amen.

En-sigma said...

Still a minority. If you number the sites that tout the idea that women are going to sleep with a lot of men, we should get in on the action without regard for knowing a woman's back-story (SDL? "I slept with her withing 2 hours of meeting"), then number the enthusiastic serial commentors who show up day after day to encourage the same action, then you will see that we are still a minority.

The bible says this world will get worse, not better. By no means do we simply give up or give in, but in order to stem the tide, to change the course, salvation would be the only cure for this world. The bible does not prophesy a great awakening in end times. If it were not for the ability to still find a good (albeit tiny and dying) church, I would say we are in the time of Jacob's troubles now.

I saw that post. I work where you can see all of the shades of human evil. And heaven help me, you cannot un-see some of these things. Those images were physically painful.

There are far too many men who are unmoved by those images, and who will not be ashamed to say it.

tz said...

Why do I doubt that Roosh or Roissy, or the other nonchristian wing won't give a literal damn - the SMV will remain unchanged, maybe stay higher without stretch-marks, or they do RU 486 w, or an abortifacient like Plan B.

Abortion will imply a large N which will lower MMV anyway.

If the standard is virgin before marriage, mother afterwards, it exorcises feminism completely. But that requires men to give up their advantages under feminism.

GF Dad said...

For some reason, this woman reminds me of the words of Robert Oppenheimer shortly after the first atomic weapon was detonated. He quoted the Bhagavad Gita: "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

tz said...

It is worse. From the sidewalk counselors, you see that it is very frequently the boyfriend coercing or threatening the woman into the abortion. Boyfriend gets girlfriend pregnant, but HE doesn't want the responsibility, or the child or the child support.

Men are already active in this fight. On the other side.

Read the.manosphere, if you have a son, which is the tragedy and which would make you proud?

1. Your son loses his virginity at 16 with a 10 and racks up a moderate N by his 18th birthday being a natural alpha.
2. Your son loses his virginity on his wedding night.

There is much talk about protecting daughters, but almost nothing about sons. And they are at greater risk and temptation given the messages. The advice, even the beta error, is about how to get laid. A virgin alpha? When was the last time one was mentioned, much less lauded for his self-control and virtue? The message is not lost.

artisanaltoadshall said...

Only violence will work. Nothing else.

When the land is polluted with blood, there can be no expiation except by the shedding of the blood of those who polluted the land. Let's say that a woman was 30 when she aborted her baby in 1975. That means she just hit 69, is probably divorced and living alone or in assisted living. Thinking of it like that, I'd say that the entire generation that gave us this problem is ready to get whacked.

Winter is coming.

Spacetraveller said...

I braved it and watched the video, and MW's post, against my better judgment. Lord helps us! I won't ever be able to unsee what I saw, but that's OK. I'll live. Others (the aborted) are not so lucky, of course...

Over the years, abortion has become some sort of trigger word for me. I go beserk when I hear it.
For good reason, I conclude.

One of my cousins got herself into trouble in college with an older man. She was adamant she wanted an abotion. Her mother (my aunt) begged her to have the baby....

That baby is now a beautiful young lady, who, last summer was one of the readers at my wedding. Her little sister was a bridesmaid. Neither girl would be here if my cousin had had that abortion...

I have women friends in their 30s and 40s now who had abortions in the past. Their lives are a living hell now.

Abortion is a great sin, against the child, against the woman's own self, and against the father of the child.
Yes, don't go near a woman who had an abortion, gentlemen. You will regret it if you do.

vartank said...

I'm a secular pro-lifer, and let me tell you, the tolerance crowd really responds will to that. I think I've almost gotten punched by feminists when they learned that but luckily they know I wouldn't hesitate to wreck them if that happened. It seems like they will understand if those crazy religious folks believe in souls and the Pope, but when I tell them the pro-choice position is completely arbitrary and has no philosophical underpinning, they start screaming about women's bodies, their right to choose, etc etc.

Pathetic, and yeah, I would never date a woman who had one, and would never involve myself with a pro-choice women for anything but a night or two of fun.

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Athor Pel said...

I've told this story before, either here or at VP.

In my younger days I had a conversation with a girl. A girl I thought about marrying at one point. Marriage never happened.

Anyway, the conversation, it turned to the subject of abortion and whether it really was a sin. She seemed to think that since the first trimester fetus was non-viable outside the womb it somehow wasn't a full person. I made the case that it indeed was a person and killing it was murder. I won't go into the whole argument since it isn't the subject here.

I sensed her interest in the subject went beyond mere intellectual curiosity. It was obvious she was personally invested.

After I made my case her reaction looked like thoughtful introspection. She was really thinking about it. Overall, she seemed to be swayed more by my conviction rather than the words of my argument.

Anyway, not too long after that she came up pregnant. She married the guy that got her pregnant. The marriage didn't last but that isn't the point. The point is that she had the baby.

To put this event in context, she was quite sexually active with multiple partners up to the time she became pregnant. It is highly likely that she had other pregnancies before then but had abortions to hide the fact.

The conversation not only changed her mind but it also changed her behavior, at least the abortive behavior if not the sexual promiscuity.

de ti said...

horrific.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Feminism is the ideology of Hell and abortion is its face. Do not compromise with it.

Too true.

tz said...

And the hypocritical Hippocratis that enable it are.causing worse, in the era of free travel. And vaccinations aren't a conspiracy or.being used for.nefarious purposes?

Bill Solomon said...

@spasticoplastic that depends on the percentage of the pool of applicable candidates for sex that she has to lie to. Women are great at lying once or twice, but horribly awful at living a lie, e.g. Skyler from Breaking Bad.

sunshinemaryandthedragon said...

"I suspect that a movement of men who make it clear that they will not involve themselves sexually or romantically with women who have had abortions will do more to end abortion than any political activity on the part of anti-abortion activists."

Though I agree that no man should involve himself with a woman who has had an abortion, we shouldn't kid ourselves that this will actually have any impact on abortion. It will not. The Death Cult is gaining, not losing, speed.

Consider the changes in Belgium and the Netherlands over the past few years; it is now legal to euthanize children there. Consider the new push for "post-birth abortion" (i.e. infanticide), which was recently written about by philosophers Alberto Giubilini and Francesca Minerva. There will be more killing of innocent children in our future, not less.

Retrenched said...

@ tz

Is the wife in scenario 2 a virgin too? If so, then the latter scenario would be far preferable to me personally, if only because it would give me a better chance of seeing my grandchildren.

I have a co-worker with 2 alpha sons like in your first scenario, and he hasn't seen either of his grandchildren in years, and may never see them again.

PhantomZodak said...

just as girls lie about their N, they will lie about this too.

JCclimber said...

It really does need to be a combination of this widespread shaming by high quality alpha men.

Plus shutting down the Planned Parenthood type clinics. I had already left the Repukican party when Bush 2 was elected, but when we had a Repuke Senate, House, and President, I expected them to actually do SOMETHING to cut abortion off.

The fact that they did absolutely nothing of any impact turned my apathy toward that political party of whores into decided antipathy. Their true colors were revealed. I may hate the Demokratic party, but the Republican party I loathe. At least the Demons are up front about supporting the culture of death.

Iowahine said...

vartank: and would never involve myself with a pro-choice women for anything but a night or two of fun.

Assuming you're very adept at condom use, collection, and disposal. If not, you consign your own children to death when/if you engage in sex with pro-choice women.

Trust said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Trust said...

Children had a better chance of getting out of Sandy Hook alive than of surviving the womb.

ray said...

"The reason the murderous abhumans that call themselves "feminists" work so hard to remove the shame and stigma from the monstrous act is because women are so highly susceptible to social rejection. That is their intrinsic weak point. That is the point to which men and women of moral standards must relentlessly apply pressure."


Correct, and every successful prior culture understood this well, and applied pressure to females accordingly. Later, as those cultures degenerated, females often were gradually empowered etc., with predictable results.


America, OTOH, is a tyrant-matriarchy, that not only removes all social pressure from females, it annihilates masculinity and fatherhood by rationalizing that making females "safer" and more "powerful" is National First Priority. Abortion is just another manifestation of such a gynarchy. You can't apply social pressure to females in a nation that makes individial laws named after its own females. Does the U.S. promulgate and strictly enforce "laws" named after individual men, applicable solely to women? Rick's Law? George's Law? Charles' Law? Um not that I've heard, and there's a reason for that, too. Yet all we hear about here is that there's some mystery War on Women and that Ever More Needs To Be Done to make Amerika and the World safer for females to take over maleness.


The LORD hates US worse than any nation that's ever existed, and worse than any nation that ever will exist again, anywhere in this vast universe. Good luck.

Sean Carnegie said...

Dated two women who had abortions: one of which was mine. One ended up 30, single, wall-hitting shrew who I haven't spoken to in 4 years. One who aborted mine ended up living with a guy, having 2 kids (girls, God save them) who pulled the pin on common law marrage for unhaaaaaaaapiness after swearing her kids would always hav Momand Dad together.

Still think about the kid wh never was. Would be 15 now.

ray said...

sigma -- 'The bible does not prophesy a great awakening in end times. If it were not for the ability to still find a good (albeit tiny and dying) church, I would say we are in the time of Jacob's troubles now'


We are at the precipice of Jacob's Troubles. Your ability (or inability) to find a "good church" is immaterial. God isn't waiting on your (or my) decisions to play out His timeline. Scripture prophesies a great eschatologic awakening amongst a SMALL remnant, who are geographically diverse. Scripture does not prophesy that there will be a global reversal, until Christ sits in Jerusalem. It also records that the final global empire/nation, Babylon-the-Great (America), will not relinquish its alliance with satan, and will refuse unto the end to turn to King Jeshua and our Father.

GG said...

"The reason the murderous abhumans that call themselves "feminists" work so hard to remove the shame and stigma from the monstrous act is because women are so highly susceptible to social rejection. That is their intrinsic weak point."

You make such an ancient mistake Vox, it can be traced all the way back to the Garden of Eden. Do not fool yourself, those wearing crocheted uteruses on their heads or dressing up as giant pink lady bits care not one whit about your alleged kryptonite, it simply fuels their cause.

"Feminism is the ideology of Hell and abortion is its face. Do not compromise with it"

Indeed, but as Adam discovered in the Garden, God was not real receptive to the phrase, "It was the woman you gave me..." Such an abandonment of personal responsibility, indeed, even an attempt to blame God Himself for man's sin, completely altered the course of mankind.

Men have profited hugely off of abortion, enjoyed consequence free sex, no child support, easily erased evidence of adultery, rape, child abuse. Murder comes in many forms, Vox Day.

"The ignorant thought can be overlooked, the evil action itself, never."

It must be awesome to live in such a sin free state that one can claim the complete moral authority to condemn others.

Not that anyone cares, but the kryptonite for the evil in the world today is actually men's honor. Unfortunately, that can sometimes be an elusive thing. I cannot begin to tell you how powerful that is, but it truly is the key to the Kingdom.




Athor Pel said...

" May 8, 2014 at 12:19 PM GG said...
...
It must be awesome to live in such a sin free state that one can claim the complete moral authority to condemn others.

Not that anyone cares, but the kryptonite for the evil in the world today is actually men's honor. Unfortunately, that can sometimes be an elusive thing. I cannot begin to tell you how powerful that is, but it truly is the key to the Kingdom."



So according to GG there can be no judging. Got it. I guess the Lord gave us the ten commandments for no reason. They're just nice to look at, is that it?

I'll just cut to the chase. You're a liar or you're so ignorant of the contents of the Bible as to be dangerous in your self designated role as moral authority.

And if you think men's honor is worth anything then you are truly deceiving yourself as well.

As for the kingdom you are trying to promulgate built on men's honor, well, I'm pretty sure that kingdom has a king and he isn't named Jehovah.

SarahsDaughter said...

Not that anyone cares, but the kryptonite for the evil in the world today is actually men's honor. Unfortunately, that can sometimes be an elusive thing. I cannot begin to tell you how powerful that is, but it truly is the key to the Kingdom.

Okay, Rollo, I get it now...the pervasiveness of the FI.

Blaximus said...

... sins aren't a top ten list. To moralize properly, moralize fully. Thanks for playing.

Conscientia Republicae said...

I like sleeping at night, so I will not be watching it.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

The Center for Reproductive Rights, a pro-abortion group based (predictably) in the US, is trying to get the UN to force the Catholic Church to stop advocating against abortion.

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/un-urged-tell-catholic-church-it-has-no-right-oppose-abortion

With Leftists increasingly using the force and violence of the State to silence dissent, we're in for some rough times ahead.

Desiderius said...

"It must be awesome to live in such a sin free state that one can claim the complete moral authority to condemn others."

And people said Gödel was just playing language games.

It's doubly ironic that strong relativism seems to make self-refuting statements mandatory, and only self-refuting statements.

jimmy-jimbo said...

"Do not date any woman who has had an abortion."

This is a subset of the category of women any man should be dating. Since we are discussing traditional dating for marriage and not hooking up, it should be clear that candidates for marriage should not be slutty women. If she didn't have an abortion, she is likely to have used plenty of birth control pills that messed up her fertility. Women who had abortions may have fertility problems in the future. It is all a bad mix.

vashine said...

It must be awesome to lie in such a sin free stat that one can claim the complete moral authority to condemn others for condemning others... oh wait.


And, this. Wow. Wake up brothas, wake up. THIS is why you listen to Jesus. So you don't even have to think about dealing with this kind of crazy...... http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/05/07/seen-at-11-positive-pregnancy-tests-up-for-sale-online/

GG said...

"And if you think men's honor is worth anything then you are truly deceiving yourself as well."

I wonder which is sadder, 50 million dead babies or the fact that men hate themselves so much they no longer know who they are?

"You're a liar or you're so ignorant of the contents of the Bible....."

I could be both ignorant and a liar and I would still not be stupid enough to try and blame God for the gift he gave me. If I am not fooled by all the PUA's bragging about all the sluts they've harvested while so self righteously pointing fingers at abortion, then God surely isn't either.

It may be too horrifying for the male of the species to wrap his brain around, but the fact is we now live in a world so full of deception and evil, that many women would prefer to eat their own young rather then bring life into this world.

Tell me, how many women does Christ condemn in the bible?

APL said...

GG: "but the fact is we now live in a world so full of deception and evil,"

It was always thus, just that most people were too preoccupied trying to get fed to notice.

tz said...

@jimmy-jimbo: Virgins. God is infinitely wise. Sealed for your protection.

tz said...

Otoh, I would throw every abortionist into the most.convenient active volcano. Burn, babykiller, burn!

SarahsDaughter said...

I wonder which is sadder, 50 million dead babies or the fact that men hate themselves so much they no longer know who they are?

The part that is factual.

Your comments, dripping with hyperbole as they do, are either an embarrassing display of the feminine imperative or your surrender to the concept that women are void of agency. Which is it, dear?

tz said...

In scenario #2,.I would also.allow for.rape.victims and widows. Beyond that, lets just say honorable men don't buy used merchandise.

"And if you think men's honor is worth anything then you are truly deceiving yourself as well."

If honor v.s dishonor didn't matter, there would be only 9 commandments or fewer. Honor apart from.grace, no. Honor in cooperation with saving grace has unimaginable power. Grace apart from honor is rejected grace.

I'm not.sure if Molotov Mitchell's zero to hero is a joke. Karv Maga. Firearms. What for? There's likely an abortion clinic a few minutes away. When confronted with stopping that holocaust, a murder in progress, he and his heroes would do what exactly? Go after some trivial, petty evil while Moloch is left? Spiritual weapons are not temporal weapons. If our battle is not against flesh and blood, we seem to be worse than the Pentagon at picking weapons systems.

Brad Andrews said...

> "Jacob's Troubles"

No way. That is a Jewish time and I believe it prophesies that 2 out of 3 Jews will die during that time. We are nowhere near as bad off as many think/claim.

We are bad, but things have been horrid before this. Think of living in Ghengis Khan's path, as one example.

That final time will be very nasty and I plan on being long gone before it happens, though I expect to live through some quite horrid times in the relatively near future.

Doorstop said...

By their own standards, women in the U.S. bear the lion's share of the responsibility for any legalized abortions currently taking place. Not only is a woman's vote equal to a man's, and not only are there more women of voting age than men, but the sisterhood repeatedly insists that men have absolutely no right to even try to legislate what women do with their bodies. The hysteria and self-delusion they've constructed along with this Molech they've errected, is so boundless that they were practically foaming at the mouth over the imagined slight that took place during "Vaginagate" at the Michigan state capital a few years ago.

I'm not absolving men of their responsibility to stand up for the innocent, or denying that some men pressure women into having abortions...though there are probably a significant number of women who were more than willing to be "pressured" in such a way, so long as it gave their selfish hamsters the justification they needed. Eventually the currently political reality in the U.S. will collapse and men will take back the power that our fathers and grandfathers abdicated. But that could take decades, and the fact remains that women could ban legalized abortions almost overnight if they truly wanted to. There are plenty of women already out there, on both sides of the political spectrum, who are more than willing to tell other women how they should live, and who are completely immune to the "you don't have a vagina so how dare you judge us!" hysteria. And to cut GG off before she chimes in with her usual shaming tactics, I'll start taking responsibility for the actions of random women who aren't related to me, when she starts taking responsibly for the actions of unrelated juvenile delinquents.

If I was an American woman who believed in collective guilt and divine retribution (or even just in karma) and I decided to give consent (Vox reminded me that for most females silence implies consent) for a crime that only females can legally commit against only the most vulnerable segment of humanity...then I'd be VERY worried right now.

2870b918-77c0-11e3-b9bd-000bcdcb8a73 said...

What tz said at 6:32 AM. Among natural alphas and dedicated Game practitioners, I'll bet at least two out of three would prefer a woman they can count on to "get it taken care of" if an accident happens. I read somewhere that the demographic most likely to support a woman's "right to choose" is young, single men.

Eric said...

Do not date any woman who has had an abortion. Make it very clear that you will not involve yourself with any woman who would murder her own progeny.

I once dated a woman for awhile and heard some rumors that she'd done some drugs in the past. When I asked her about it she said that was long ago and she was done with it. So I told her if she started doing drugs "we" would be over.

That didn't stop her. All it meant was she knew to lie to me about it. The only way a resolution not to date women who've had abortions will make any difference at all is if a) you ask her before she knows she'll get dumped for the wrong answer and b) she doesn't lie out of guilt or embarrassment.

JLT said...

I wonder who the small proportion of men who would be allowed to survive would be? George Clooney or some schlub accountant? And wouldn't a 20:1 ratio of women to surviving men just bring back real live Patriarchy?

‘Homo Rapiens’: Anti-PIV RadFem Goes Total Moonbat on Climate Change
...The unstoppable death-machine has always only been orchestrated by the homo rapiens. By men. YOU. Women are not and have never been responsible for the atrocities committed by men, for men’s global industrial rape and death system. By lying and deceiving you are continuing to be part of the problem, because you are masking the fact that the obvious solution all the time, long before the extinction of all life was impending, was to depopulate the earth of males or to reduce them to manageable levels again — only by doing so would have men’s patriarchal and industrial necrophilic sado-system come to an end without destroying the rest of life....

Athor Pel said...

"May 8, 2014 at 4:24 PM GG said...
...
blah blah blah
...
Tell me, how many women does Christ condemn in the bible? "



Of the women Jesus directly dealt with, how many repented?
It's obvious you have little idea what you're talking about.

I'll be a little more blunt.

You're should stop talking out your ass. Because that's all that's showing here, your ass.

Get on your knees and repent. Actually pray for forgivneness. Then accept Jesus as your savior. Maybe you'll get some humility and a desire to actually learn what the Word says rather than what you're doing here.





"May 8, 2014 at 6:16 PM tz said...
...
If honor v.s dishonor didn't matter, there would be only 9 commandments or fewer. Honor apart from.grace, no. Honor in cooperation with saving grace has unimaginable power. Grace apart from honor is rejected grace.
..."



You and I both know a man's honor; wait, I'll provide the real word we are talking about and that word is righteousness, is worth spit compared to God's.

When anyone starts talking about man's honor he or she is talking about man self justifying, man being self righteous and if they also start talking about combining earthly self righteousness to God's grace, what we then have is an idolator and not just any idolator but a self idolator.

It's either God's way or no way. It's either God's provision of nothing. There can be no combining of something from fallen man with anything of God.

God's grace saves you, not your honor.

If we get any honor or glory it is given to us by God. We have nothing apart from Him. It is all His.

Trust said...

@: " Not only is a woman's vote equal to a man's, and not only are there more women of voting age than men, but the sisterhood repeatedly insists that men have absolutely no right to even try to legislate what women do with their bodies."
__________

And these same women who say this also advocate restricting men when it comes to male birth control and vasectomies. Not just with straight faces, but with a self righteous air of indignation.

Spacetraveller said...

"Tell me, how many women does Christ condemn in the bible? "

I am reminded that in the homily last sunday, the priest made a joke that Jesus never condemned any woman. I was incredulous at first, but now I realise this is actually true.

But let's not kid ourselves that Jesus thought women were morally superior! In fact I think the opposite might be true. I think Jesus had a bit of a soft spot for women, just because :-)

Stop defending the indefensible, GG. We all know that men sin too. But we are discussing a uniquely female crime here. No matter how much coersion a woman is under from anyone else, the child in her womb is sacred. She must never let anyone touch that child's life. She is answerable to God about that, in a way no man can be.

Yes, it is possible to repent sincerely for a past abortion. But that requires a level of humility that many modern women simply lack.

Empowerment? Women cannot be truly empowered until we can protect our unborns. THAT is the sign of true empowerment - when we can protect the most vulnerable members of society. Everything else is just 'window dressing' as my mum would say...

Sarah's daughter makes a good point when she asks GG a question. I would be interested in your answer, GG! Assuming you understand the nuances of the question being asked...


Retrenched said...

As I recall, God killed Sapphira along with Ananias; He didn't give her a pussy pass.

Scott's Bluff said...

Why is abortion murder? Murder is unlawful; abortion is legal, by and large.

Retrenched said...

And Jezebel met a pretty gruesome fate too; God didn't excuse her sins because of her weak and lily-livered husband's reluctance to correct her.

GG said...

"Your comments, dripping with hyperbole as they do, are either an embarrassing display of the feminine imperative or your surrender to the concept that women are void of agency. Which is it, dear?"

My comments are not dripping with hyperbole and I have not the least bit of embarrassment over feminine imperatives. As to women being void of agency, yes, when it comes to biology, surprisingly so. Quite a few are unable to relate cause and effect when it comes to pregnancy. Many cannot even conceive of the fact that bodily autonomy has already been surrendered at the point of conception. I imagine if women were able to see clearly and had complete agency over all aspects of biology, the human race would have ceased to exist long ago.

"Stop defending the indefensible, GG"

I'm not defending anything. I'm annoyed with the fact that as usual, the best that men can come up with is "don't date it" and "blame women."

"But we are discussing a uniquely female crime here..."

That's what Adam tried to explain to God. It didn't work back then and it's not going to work today.

Doorstop said...

"That's what Adam tried to explain to God. It didn't work back then and it's not going to work today. "

It didn't work because Adam and Eve both disobeyed God by eating the same fruit. A man can no more get an abortion than he can get pregnant. Try again, GG.

GG said...

"It didn't work because Adam and Eve both disobeyed God by eating the same fruit. A man can no more get an abortion than he can get pregnant. Try again, GG. "

You should try again. The evidence is clearly written in the bible and the fact that men profit a great deal from abortion is clearly written all over our society.

Kari said...

An organization my husband and I support is PSS, Pregnancy Support Services. Last year they prevented the abortion of over 100 babies in our area just by giving expected mothers a free ultrasound. They also provide sexual integrity classes for young people. If you have one in your area please lend your support physically or financially, if you don't have one, start one.
We need boots on the ground.

To paraphrase Dr. Stanley Hauerwas: "The issue for Christians is not when does life begin. The issue for believers is, what kind of people do we have to be to welcome strangers into our midst?"

Practicallyperfect

vashine said...

Actually Jesus condemned ALL women who fail to repent, accept Him as the Son of God, and follow Him.

So there. He condemned all women really.

Not only that, he told the woman at the well to stop being a whore. Now, if more Christian males did that in public, as Jesus did, boy wouldn't we hear the shrill cries from fembots from all over society, to include feminized she-males and females within the Church itself.

Stop. Being. A. Whore. Stop. Sinning. Whoring. Is. A. Sin.

Those who do not stop and repent, including that woman at the well, were condemned by Jesus.

So there. Yes, he condemned women. A lot of them. All of them who fail to repent and accept Him.

GG said...

"So there. He condemned all women really."

Complete BS. The world was condemned the moment Adam and Eve sinned. Christ Himself said he did not come to condemn the world but rather to fulfill the law. I'm sorry if some people don't like it, the Truth of the matter is that Christ never condemned one single woman for allegedly being a whore, whether it be the woman at the well, the adulteress about to be stoned, or Mary Magdalene. Not one. I appeal to you as respectfully as possible to please not spread such false doctrines because enough women are estranged from the church, from men, from God Himself, because of this kind of nonsense.

Abortion is not a competition between men and women, unless we are having a race to the bottom to see how fast we can destroy civilization.

"Stop. Being. A. Whore. Stop. Sinning. Whoring. Is. A. Sin."

Not a big problem for me, I've been married for 27 years now. It is those men who treat women like toys to be used and disposed of, who encourage and benefit from abortion, and who then have the gall to try and pretend they know Christ, that concern me.

Dokter Mayhem said...

"I suspect that a movement of men who make it clear that they will not involve themselves sexually or romantically with women who have had abortions will do more to end abortion than any political activity on the part of anti-abortion activists."

Good idea, except for one problem. Has to be a movement consisting entirely, I mean, ENTIRELY of men that women want. Otherwise? It'll just be written off by women like the MRM.

Doorstop said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Doorstop said...

GG, since you're a fan of reading extra meaning into scripture, how about a little thought exercise- what would have happened if Adam had refused to eat the forbidden fruit, which the Bible says Eve had already eaten and then given to him? Would not Eve have died as God promised, but Adam would have still lived and kept his "honor"?

The Apostle Paul tells us that Eve was deceived but Adam wasn't, which means Adam had some idea of what he was getting himself into by choosing to throw in his lot with his wife. Talk about a case of oneitis, seeing how Eve was literally the only woman on Earth. Now it's true that it wasn't an honorable move by Adam to blame his wife for his own choice, but to be vocally interrogated face-to-face by the Creator of the universe, is not an ordeal that many humans have experienced in this life. I noticed that Eve didn't say "This man just wasn't enough, and he didn't stop me from sinning," so you might be wise not to blame men's real or imagined failings for women's sins either.

Unlike Adam, men now have lots of women to pick from, hence Vox's advocacy of a man's right to not choose any woman who has exercised her own "right to choose."

Markku said...

How men who weren't in a position of spiritual authority over others did Jesus condemn?

GG said...

"...so you might be wise not to blame men's real or imagined failings.."

I really am curious, why the constant blame game? It starts to sound a bit like feminism, just with the genders reversed. I have to tell you, it's a stupid game, one that will eventually rob you of your power. You are the one playing it, not I. I don't "blame" men for anything, Men simply are what they are. One thing they are, is prone to point fingers at women, as if that in someway can prove their own hands are clean. That's an ancient game that continues to this day and will likely eventually lead to our destruction..

"How men who weren't in a position of spiritual authority over others did Jesus condemn?"

How ironic that a few thousand years ago the only ones Christ ever criticized where indeed MEN who had spiritual authority over others. So, doesn't the bible say that men have a form of spiritual authority over women? Does that not mean that they also will be held to a higher standard? To whom much is given much is expected?

Men, much like women, seem to always want all of the authority and yet none of the responsibility.

Markku said...

So, doesn't the bible say that men have a form of spiritual authority over women?

I'm not aware of any such argument for women in GENERAL. Just their own wives (and own children obviously). So, apparently since I'm unmarried, I'm not responsible for my own actions. Yay!

GG said...

"So, apparently since I'm unmarried, I'm not responsible for my own actions. Yay! "

LOL! Well, this certainly does explain why the Bride of Christ is in such disarray.

So when staring at the "face of hell," the plan is to refuse to sleep with it? Awesome. I'm sure men will have the whole world fixed in no time.

Markku said...

So when staring at the "face of hell," the plan is to refuse to sleep with it? Awesome. I'm sure men will have the whole world fixed in no time.

Or, alternatively, the principle that a group is not responsible for their own actions if Jesus didn't specifically condemn a particular member in it, is really fucking stupid.

Markku said...

Absolutely nothing follows from the fact that no particular woman* was condemned by Jesus at that time, because he only specifically addressed the sins of those who abused their position of spiritual authority, thereby preventing others from finding salvation. It was very rare for women to hold such positions then, so naturally we'd only find that one instance of it.

*Except Jezebel (after the resurrection) in Rev 2:20 - and lo and behold, she DID hold such a position)

GG said...

"Or, alternatively, the principle that a group is not responsible for their own actions if Jesus didn't specifically condemn a particular member in it, is really fucking stupid"

What is even stupider is missing the point entirely. It was Christ's honor that redeemed mankind, not His condemnation and judgment.

Markku said...

What is even stupider is missing the point entirely. It was Christ's honor that redeemed mankind, not His condemnation and judgment.

So, what then logically follows from Jesus condemning no other women except Jezebel, which was your original inquiry? Because if anything follows, it follows equally to unmarried men, and also to married men who hold no other position of spiritual authority than that over their wife and children, and who don't abuse it.

And ESPECIALLY the same follows to all PUA's, who are unlikely to be married.

GG said...

Markuu, it is Christ's honor that redeemed mankind. That same type of honor can to be found in many men today. The truth is, it is men's honor that leads women away from feminism, it is men's honor that leads women away from abortion, it is men's honor that often leads women to Christ. Like it or not, it is all about men and how they respond.

If you want to do something about abortion, about the way the world is today, then men must pay more attention to who Christ was and how he operated in the world. He is your example.

Your Example never went around condemning women, pointing fingers of blame, or claiming to not bear any responsibility. He wasn't married, but He walked in a position of spiritual leadership anyway.



Markku said...

Your Example never went around condemning women, pointing fingers of blame, or claiming to not bear any responsibility. He wasn't married, but He walked in a position of spiritual leadership anyway.

You are speaking in generalities completely unrelated to your original question, which was whether Jesus condemned any women, asked in the context of the advice to not date any women who have murdered their children in their womb.

Now that I've pointed out that whatever you wish to prove by your question applies equally to PUA's, then what specific argument do you intend to make from the fact that Jesus is on record of condemning only one woman by name?

GG said...

"Now that I've pointed out that whatever you wish to prove by your question applies equally to PUA's, then what specific argument do you intend to make from the fact that Jesus is on record of condemning only one woman by name? "

With all due respect Markuu, you've failed to do either. Christ doesn't even condemn Jezebel in Revelations, he condemns those who commit idolatry/adultery with her. He's speaking to the church.

As to PUA's, that ancient sin of trying to pin all the blame on women still walks the Earth today. No, all sin is not the same, men and women are not the same, not biologically and not spiritually. Men should not think they can engage in adultery, cause unwanted pregnancies, point fingers at women, and then self righteously declare they won't date any woman that has had an abortion, as if adding hypocrisy to the mix will somehow wash them clean.

If you don't like abortion don't cause an unwanted pregnancy and teach your brothers the same. Show women the same mercy and honor that Christ showed them and they'll follow you. Condemn them in indignation and another 50 million babies will die.

There's a dirty little secret about abortion we don't like to talk about. The majority of women seeking abortions these days are Christian women who are well acquainted with the judgment and condemnation of Christian men.

Markku said...

Condemn them in indignation

For that kind of atrocity, I'll condemn them with more than just indignation. I'll condemn them with utter disgust.

Markku said...

To them, I say anathema. To hell with them.

GG said...

"For that kind of atrocity, I'll condemn them with more than just indignation. I'll condemn them with utter disgust."

Often Markuu, what feels the best, what brings about the most bliss hits in your brain, is not the wisest course of action, not if your goal is to eliminate some of the suffering in the world. Condemnation and self righteousness feels good to us, just ask a lefty. The problem is, we aren't led by Christ to do what feels good.

If I thought condemning women would have any impact on abortion at all, I wouldn't spend so much time belaboring this point. The thing is, I believe the reverse is true, the more we revel in our own self righteousness, the more we feed the problem. Continue to perceive women as sluts, whores, murderers, and they'll continue to live up to your expectations. Like it or not, that is how this game works.

Markku said...

It should be patently obvious that thinking oneself as being above murdering babies, is not being self-righteous. It is being a normal, human being.

GG said...

Markuu, I'm as horrified by the ways of the world as anyone else. What I grow weary of is self righteousness, if such a thing is defined as being sanctimonious, smugly moralistic, convinced of one's own superiority. The reason I hate it so much is because it often becomes a substitute for actual problem solving. If we all just sit around claiming no responsibility and condemning others, well, we get the world we currently live in.

Peace Markku, I've taken up enough of your time.

vashine said...

Yeah, uh, GG, in your solipsistic world you read my entire post as though it were specifically addressed to you. It was not.

Oh, and I will call "BS" on both your logic and your reading of my post. Your reading of my post is piss poor. Not only due to the fact you thought I was accusing YOU of being a whore (I was not, I was reiterating Jesus' clear and direct message to the woman at the well, which is a universal message to all women and men throughout all time), but also due to the fact that you can't seem to follow the simples logic of Jesus condemning ALL those who fail to repent before God. My followup comment "he condemned all women" needed to be read in the context of the preceding text that referenced Jesus' command to the whore at the well to stop whoring.

Stop. Reading. Posts. As. Though. They're. All. About. You. Did you ever think the audience might not JUST include you? Really?

Typical. Really, do we have to spell it all out for you? My point was this, which you entirely missed in your nitpicky, compartimentalizing, hamster-brain reading: He condemned ALL who do not repent and follow Him. Meeeeeeeaniiiiiing... even ALL women who fail to repent and follow Him. So yes, Jesus threw down condemnation to men and women who do not repent. Oh, good for women that He never singled one out for a verbal tongue-lashing! In the end, who cares?

Oh, and I'll call BS on your "complete BS" comment. What do you think it MEANS to fulfill the Law? Guess what? (oh, bet you can't wait for this one..) The LAW includes PUNISHMENT, aka JUDGMENT. :O

:O :O :O

What?!?! Judgment? From the Law?!?! (ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding) We have a WINNER!!! Holy shit. Jesus came BECAUSE judgment exists. He came because that judgment wasn't gonna fall in our favor (for either men or women). So His purpose in coming (this time) was to fulfill the Law so that those who repented and accepted His sacrifice (the sacrifice on the altar which was the fulfillment of the Law), would already have their debts paid, their punishment paid off, by the Lord through acceptance of Christ and His Blood. He came so that we could, at the Day of Judgment (!!!), stand righteous and clean before God and in His eyes.

"And He will come again to Judge the Living and the Dead"

Judgment is coming. And you're right, Jesus didn't come (the first time) to JUDGE. He came to fulfill the Law so that through Him we might be saved from the punishment that Judgment was sure to bring. But he warned of judgment and warned of condemnation.

Hmmm, that would indicate that Judgment still kind sorta exists, wouldn't it?! And isn't that what Scripture confirms again and again?

Oh snap! :O

False doctrine? Ahem, where? whom? COMPLETE BS? Not quite.

Might want to check your definition of 'condemn'. Speaking the truth is neither smug nor is it necessarily 'condemnation' in the emotional, you're-being-a-meanie, butthurt sense you seem to be wedded to. It can be just calling it like it is, aka an abortionist is a murderer. And yes, murders should be openly and publicly shamed and condemned, even while offering a path to forgiveness and salvation. And that is pretty much what Christ did, call it like it is, publicly called hypocrites and sinners out, and offered them a path of salvation. And they killed Him for it.

And I love the self-righteous anti-self-righteousness thing you got goin' there. Quite similar to the pridefully humble, the judgmentally non-judgmental, or the open-minded-to-everything-except-ideas-I-don't-like folks you find on the Left. Check yourself.

hoellenhund2 said...

"Read the.manosphere, if you have a son, which is the tragedy and which would make you proud?

1. Your son loses his virginity at 16 with a 10 and racks up a moderate N by his 18th birthday being a natural alpha.
2. Your son loses his virginity on his wedding night.

There is much talk about protecting daughters, but almost nothing about sons. And they are at greater risk and temptation given the messages."

Nonsense. The great majority of 16-18-yr-old boys are deemed unfuckable by their female peers and have thus no opportunities whatsoever to engage in casual sex. They aren't facing any temptations they can give into.

GG said...

"Stop. Reading. Posts. As. Though. They're. All. About. You."

Vashine, blow it out your ear. Your projection of your own issues is somewhat amusing, but your incredibly low opinion of yourself tends to make me nauseous.

Michael Maier said...

I think GG doesn't like the hand print on the ass she got here... but I'm only a man so I'm sure I'm wrong.

Doorstop said...

"I don't "blame" men for anything, Men simply are what they are."

"The truth is, it is men's honor that leads women away from feminism, it is men's honor that leads women away from abortion, it is men's honor that often leads women to Christ. Like it or not, it is all about men and how they respond."

There you have it folks, without all the subterfuge, solipsism, and shooting from the hip- GG's philosophy in a nutshell: She'll tell you she doesn't want to blame men, and that she's doesn't want to shame men, but she knows, knows knows, that men are the only sex who can set things right...if there were only more men with more honor. Because in her mind that's not blaming or shaming at all. Because Alpha. And because every rebellious woman wants her own personal mini-Jesus to set her straight, just like GG (aka yttik) has told us she's felt so blessed to receive.

Man up and marry the sluts.

GG said...

"She'll tell you she doesn't want to blame men, and that she's doesn't want to shame men, but she knows, knows knows, that men are the only sex who can set things right...."

I'm sorry love, but it's the truth. Unless you prefer to leave our future in the hands of feminists?

I do not blame and shame men, I simply grieve the fact that lately, so many seem to have forgotten who they are, who made them, and why they are here.

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Trust said...

Amazing how an otherwise intelligent and obseravnt person notices everything broken and in disarray, but the 1,000 lbs gorilla in the room is invisible to her. She doesn't correlate how overhauling the rules of the game changed how the players behave. She thinks family law is the result of the change in behavior, not the cause of it.

GG said...

"She doesn't correlate how overhauling the rules of the game changed how the players behave."

Trust, believe it or not, that is an incredibly complex issue. The rules of the game did change, but people, rather than changing, behaved in completely predictable ways. We are being asked to change, even having demands placed on us to do so, and yet we are not changing. It is our inability to change the nature of who we are that is wrecking so much havoc in the world. That's actually a good thing, a hopeful thing, because what the world wants to see us become is not pleasant.

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Tamara said...

"As I recall, God killed Sapphira along with Ananias; He didn't give her a pussy pass."

Correct, and some complementarians would have given her a pass on the grounds that she was submitting to her husband.

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