Wednesday, August 29, 2012

Alpha Mail: can Game save this marriage?

A married delta asks about a marriage on the rocks as a result of his desire to play Good Samaritan:
A girl became very interested in me after seeing my band perform, partly because I looked just like some guy that she never got over. She began sending me facebook messages that I politely replied to, just chit chat. Then it became apparent that she was a really hurt and broken person and she thought I was the only one in the world that could help her. My first response to this was to try to get her to meet with my wife for prayer, but she insisted that nobody else know about her issues. I shared truth with her, met with her in a public place, not behind closed doors, and prayed with her. I was hoping that she'd be changed and then stop insisting I keep this stuff secret so I could share it with my wife. I didn't like hiding it.

I invited her out to a show my wife would be at so they could meet. Then I invited her to church so they could spend more time together, and even out to eat after church. I was hoping this girl would open up to my wife so the truth could come out. When that didn't happen quick enough for me, I went ahead and told my wife. She was devastated. She acts like it's the same as me cheating on her. She has physically assaulted me twice. (Not that I'm in any danger of course, just giving you an idea of how angry she is.) I did become close to this girl and had a lot of compassion for her, but I never even had an impure thought about her.

I'm early 40s, my wife is early 50s, we've been married around 20 years. I'm a little overweight, my wife is at least 60 pounds overweight. The girl is 26 and very attractive. But instead of my wife taking the angle that I could have had this younger prettier girl and didn't, she takes the angle that I betrayed her horribly and our marriage can't be saved bar some kind of miracle. When I point out the fact that I was trying to get them together, she says that was just so I could be closer to the girl.

I feel absolutely horrible about this now. I want to just hold my wife and cry, even though I never cry. So yeah, it's pretty bad. And yes, I know, I did a real stupid thing. But I don't think it should cost me my marriage. Can game help this?
First, let me point out that even basic Game would have prevented this problem in the first place. What we have here is a classic "damsel in distress" scenario and a man creating unnecessary marital problems by first taking a woman's story at face value (Game error 1), then white-knighting (Game error 2), and then backing down and cowering before his wife's fear-fueled outrage at his white-knighting on behalf of a younger and more attractive woman. (Game error 3).

Second, let's look at the root of the problem. His wife is 10 years older, overweight, and post-Wall. She's understandably threatened by this younger interloper, with whom she cannot compete and who she correctly views as harboring at least some interest in her husband. However, she's handling the situation in precisely the wrong manner, trying to beat him into submission by physical and psychological violence instead of appealing to either reason or his better nature.

Now, I don't know why he wants to save this marriage based on his description of the situation, but everyone's mileage varies and I certainly respect his desire to do so. Can Game save it? I think it's at least possible. So let's apply the principles:

1. Break off all contact with the young woman. He's not the Broken Girl Doctor.

2. Read the wife the riot act. His silly mistake in trying to help the young woman, whether it was made in pure Christian innocence or a subconscious flirtation with temptation, doesn't justify her behavior in any way. He didn't betray her and her attempts to pretend that he did are nothing more than the dishonest machinations of a control freak attempting to gain hand. Tell her if she threatens divorce, you'll go ahead and file, if she indulges in any further violence, you'll press charges and then file for divorce.

3. Stop apologizing and cowering. The Bible demands that we repent. But if the other person refuses to accept genuine repentence, it is no longer your problem.

4. Accept the consequences like a man, wherever they lead. He has to accept that if the wife is a drama queen and control freak, nothing he does is going to fix the situation because she has absolutely no interest in it being fixed. And let's face it, there are worse fates than being rid of an old, unpleasant, overweight woman attempting to dictate your life to you.

That being said, there is still some hope for the man and his marriage. He's not entirely weak. For example, he noted "she wanted me to sleep on the couch the other night and I refused. She slept on the couch." And there are a few salient lessons for other men to be learned here:

1. Get the fuck off Facebook. Seriously. Nothing good ever comes of it.

2. Don't white knight. Ever. You are responsible for helping your wife and your daughters. Maybe your mother and your sisters as well in some circumstances, depending upon the situation. That's it. The rest of the 3 billion+ female population is neither your problem nor your responsibility. The key metric: if you wouldn't do it for an ugly old man, you don't do it for a pretty young girl.

3. Don't fall for the Girl with a Broken Wing act. I mean, come on now! Women use it more often, and usually with more success, than players use the "Broken-hearted Boy" role.

4. Don't cower before a woman. Ever. Even if that is what she is demanding in full shriek, she will hate and despise you for it ever after. This doesn't mean you can't apologize for your actions or admit that she is right when she is correct, but it is better to physically emasculate yourself than permit her to do it metaphorically.

5. Agree and amplify. If she threatens to leave, show her the door.

134 comments:

Shimshon said...

Vox, regarding #2, I'm sure you've read enough of Will Grigg's material to know NEVER bring the police into the picture. Threatened or actual divorce should be enough.

VD said...

There is a difference between warning her of an action she would find credible based on her solipsistic perspective and actually getting the police involved.

She is simply not going to attack him again if she believes there are likely to be any consequences.

Ian Ironwood said...

A) His marriage was mediocre at best, and his innocent attraction to this girl was likely his subconscious perking up at the thought of her. Even if it wasn't consciously sexual, it was in there.

B) Yes, basic Game would have prevented all of this. Vox's recommendations are spot-on. You don't help a woman you aren't fucking or related to (or, in some jurisdictions, both) without some compensatory relationship evolving. Altruism and Christian charity are great, but they frequently lead to just this sort of train wreck.

C) He needs to back his wife down quick and hard. She's not going anywhere, and her treating this like an affair when it was probably only a proto-emotional affair is indicative of both her insecurity and her desire for drama. She's post-wall, after all, and probably sees this as an attack on her precious security. Assure her...then grab the frame and point out all the messed-up things in the relationship. Use this as an opportunity for growth and change. Surely he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life in this crappy situation. Game the hell out of his wife and don't bother with the future Batshit Crazy girl.

TLM said...

1. Get the fuck off Facebook. Seriously. Nothing good ever comes of it...

Wisest thing you've ever wrote. FB is for chicks and fags. If you're a guy on FB, you're not Alpha, you're gay. No exceptions. that applies to Twitter as well.

VD said...

his innocent attraction to this girl was likely his subconscious perking up at the thought of her. Even if it wasn't consciously sexual, it was in there.

I concur. He would never have put in the same time and effort were it an old man or even a young man of the same age.

Josh said...

He should have made her a concubine.

Am I missing something, but when did he say she asked for help? She's not looking for counseling or a shoulder to cry on.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

I don't know. FB allowed me to reconnect with some online friends who got banned along with me from various political forums.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

I will say about this situation: if his wife doesn't forgive him and refuses to understand then his marriage is over. There is no sense in staying married to a woman who refuses to forgive you. Better to live on the corner of a roof, as the proverb goes.

VD said...

Yes, you missed this: "Then it became apparent that she was a really hurt and broken person and she thought I was the only one in the world that could help her."

Poor widdle girl with the hurt and broken wing and only the man from the rock band can help her....

Bah. I'm actually embarrassed for my sex, that any man would fall for that. She probably just wanted money.

Tom said...

I'm the guy.

She's had ridiculous fits of jealousy in the past for no reason. She was cheated on by her previous 2 husbands and I've been suffering for it (off and on) for 20 years. Now that she thinks she has a reason, I don't know if I want this to continue. I've never cheated on anybody but she actually has. I'm pretty much a prude. I've only had intercourse with the 2 women I was married to. She has an insane sexual past that could be made into a porn movie.

And guess how we met? I was the broken girl doctor. I had no interest in her romantically until after I led her to Christ. And she did have a radical conversion. The jealousy and some anger is the only thing that's really wrong with her now.

Come to think of it, how did I hook up with my first wife? Yep. Broken girl doctor. Holy crap.

But I have done plenty of prison ministry and homeless ministry so I don't only try to help chicks.

Daniel said...

No, that's an idiotic move: he doesn't have the capacity to tell his existing wife to stop mastering him.

When you've got one woman problem, the solution is never to add a second woman problem. See also Abraham.

An alpha (synthetic or otherwise) might go the way of a concubine, but an alpha wouldn't find himself in any of those situations (man-acting wife, groupie confusion, weeping and cowering) that this delta did.

Dude needs to eject out of the bad habits and train up his violent crone into something passing for a respectable wife to get what he's asking for.

The guy is Harry Hinkle, not Whiplash Willie, after all.

Mr. Nightstick said...

Things will work out, one way or another.

Athor Pel said...

If you've been in ministry then you know that meeting with women alone, in public or not, is asking for trouble. Always have a witness, always. Women "seeking guidance" is a primary way ministers are spiritually and reputationally attacked.

You gotta ask yourself, "Would I want my daughter to ask a strange man for personal advice?" The correct answer to that is NO.
Another question to ask yourself, "Why didn't this woman go to a family member for advice?" You should ask her this question and whatever her answer it will most likely stink. You want her to self-incriminate, you wont' get the truth otherwise.

In fact, you really need to always have questions that lead people to self-incriminate, if you don't then they won't repent. Christians must be light, light that exposes sin.


Daniel said...

Tom,

Your heart for the poor and broken is a good thing, and I'm certain a blessing to those we are called to minister, but you've got to separate the good half of that from the bad.

Jesus says that we are often tempted to do good things for terrible reasons (Matt 6:5). It seems apparent to me (I could be wrong) that at least a part of your motivation is an attempt to heal your own brokenness or something: you feel good (short term) when you take on other people's stripes for a while.

Self-sacrifice quite obviously has its place in our faith, but not when it is an idol. Pretending to be Jesus so screwed up people mistake you for Jesus or (as groupie girl did) offer worship to you is not right, not salutary, and not Christian. It's that pernicious blend of Satanism and churchy feelings that makes a mockery of Christ.

I think (again, could be wrong) that you are seeing that right now.

You have a bad wife. That's the bad news. The good news is that, by simply standing up, stopping the doormat cycle (which has probably been twisted into faux self-sacrifice in your mind) and asserting your God-given authority over creation in general and your wife in particular, you can make things a lot better for yourself and your ministry.

The end result? She may leave. She may stay. Ultimately, what do you care? You've got to follow your orders to be the man God made you to be, and if she can't handle being married to that, praise God. If she can change, improve and do the hustling required for her to keep herself yoked to you, then praise God even more.

God hates divorce, but he also hates haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil,a false witness who pours out lies and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers.

So God hates a lot of qualities of your wife right now. You can't serve two masters.

Daniel said...

Oh, and if you are doing prison ministry and haven't learned to be as subtle as a serpent in all dealings with open and secret sinners (i.e. everyone) yet, do that before continuing it.

The Anti-Gnostic said...

Tom - you are a slut. Women put out their poon, you put out your emotional commitment. Guard it jealously. Don't be a slut.

Wife needs to hit the weight room and go low-carb. If you have a house, convert one of the rooms to a gym. All you need is a rack, a bench, an Olympic set and some stable-mats. If cash and time are tight, then cut back on your fucking "ministry." I say this as an Orthodox Christian.

Matthew said...

Good call. The male equivalent of a slut is the emotionally available man.

The Anti-Gnostic said...

And apologies for my Anglo-Saxon. I've just seen too many situations where "ministry" was just available, misdirected energy. Your first calling is to your own.

Heh said...

So, your wife successfully ran the "broken girl" scam on you, and then she is hysterically suspicious when you meet another "broken girl"? Go figure!

Heh said...

You are doubting the power of the hamster!

Women can always, always, always rationalize their behavior, and therefore "self-incrimination" is effectively impossible.

VD said...

Come to think of it, how did I hook up with my first wife? Yep. Broken girl doctor. Holy crap.

That would be the light bulb.... We all have our behavioral patterns, the key is to recognize your own and make them work for you rather than against you.

RC said...

You've got some solid advice from VD in the original post. Just act on it.

My bet is she's been contemplating throwing you overboard anyway and now you've given her the Christian divorce ticket, adultery via the emotional affair.

Not to pile on but for others contemplating marriage: High N, broken, and much older are all reasons to not marry. I understand you were practically a kid but where the hell was your dad?

Josh said...

"Then it became apparent that she was a really hurt and broken person and she thought I was the only one in the world that could help her."

I had assumed that entire sentence was a rationalization constructed by his gamma hamster.

Tom said...

She's told me before that she's actually prayed for God to send me somebody better than her. And she's encouraged me several times over the past few days to go get with this girl, like it might be the best thing to do. This happens in the same conversations that end with her assaulting me.

I guess it's some kind of super special pity party but that's so twisted I don't completely understand it.

Josh said...

Now that she thinks she has a reason, I don't know if I want this to continue. I've never cheated on anybody but she actually has.

She's cheated on you, or cheated on her past husbands?

If she wants to leave or cheat, she's going to do it.

Why did you choose her in the first place?

Josh said...

Do y'all have kids?

Don't be fooled by what she says about other women being better for you. She wants you to cheat so she can get divorced again and keep playing the victim.

Stickwick said...

I'm actually embarrassed for my sex, that any man would fall for that. She probably just wanted money.

Some "broken" women are undoubtedly after money, but many are not. I've seen this scenario play out over and over, and a good deal of the time it's simply about emotional gratification.

I've heard it said that when a man looks at a beautiful woman, he experiences pleasure akin to a hit of cocaine. As a woman, I can tell you that women experience the same thing when they get attention from men (at least ones they don't find repellant). For a woman who has no purpose in life, the rush she gets from attention-seeking can easily become her raison d'ĂȘtre.

A beautiful woman can rely on her looks to get this rush without doing much but being visible. A not-so-beautiful woman -- or one who is insecure -- will use other means to get this attention, and the Broken Wing routine is probably the easiest and most reliable. There is always a man nearby who is up for the rescue. It is also the go-to method when the object of your attention-seeking is unavailable, because he's attached to another woman, he's a priest, etc. Even attractive women will use the Broken Wing routine in such cases. It works, because, as we're seeing here, the man can convince himself that he's just helping a poor soul in need who can't trust anyone else. I don't think this is done on a conscious level for all women who try it, but where the hamster is strong, it's a very good rationalization for getting attention from a wholly inappropriate source.

Tom said...

She cheated on a past husband.

I thought she was the one God wanted me to marry.

Tom said...

We have 2 teenage boys. Well, one is 18 so he's an adult now. I don't think they'll end up like me. I hadn't been an idiot in a long time until this incident.

Jim said...

Or she is seeking validation by giving you the chance to choose her over the girl. A passive aggressive and warped move of the insecure. Expect her to put more hoops out for you to jump through to "prove" your love and committment. With each one you jump through she owns you a little more.

Josh said...

Hosea, is that you?

Josh said...

IE the "love dare" crap from that idiotic Fireproof movie.

Jason773 said...

I have to believe this is a troll now. While there are certainly some spinless guys on the manosphere, you have to search far and wide to find a guy this bad.

Wife was a huge slut...check
Wife had two previous marriages...check
Wife is 10 years older...check
Wife bitches you out constantly...check
You only have an N of 2...check
You fold to your wife like a pansy...check
You use Christianity as a crutch...check

A couple of these things makes one a delta. All of that either makes someone a troll or the lowest of the low at omega.

mnl said...

Tom, I'm impressed with your introspection and noticing the pattern here. You say your first wife was a "broken wing"; your second wife also. And clearly this new interloper is the same thing all over again again. Wow! Do you see the repeating cycle here?

It's now time to introspect even further and understand where or how this pattern began. Uncover the emotional "benefits" you're deriving from it. Because even though the drama is dysfunctional for you, it's also psychologically rewarding in some odd way. It's filling some psychic "hole."

Pardon the armchair psychoanalysis here but I'm going to go out on a limb. I'm guessing you were the oldest child of two or more younger siblings. Your parents (single mom or passive dad?) put you in the role of being responsible for your siblings at a very early age. And you got tremendous rewards ("Good boy, Tom" "You're such a good caregiver") for doing it well. And now you're playing out this very same role with these "broken wings". This is a classic NMMNG pattern. (And if I'm wrong on this speculative story at least you get the general idea of where to take this).

Once you unwind the history on this you'll be in a better spot to make conscious choices. You'll recognize when the script starts to play--and be able to interrupt it. You'll also find the red pill much more easy to swallow. Good LTR game will more naturally follow.

Good luck!

mnl said...

What Josh said. The point here is that your wife has an equally dysfunctional script or learned pattern--which compliments the your own pattern (see my earlier post above). It's symbiotic. You two are "dancing" together. Her default response may be to play the victim, play the broken wing, or, some other passive aggressive-type role as Jim describes. It would be interesting to see where or how her deal first started. Any thoughts?

Another One said...

Unfortunately, a lot of us are in this "Go Alpha and either save or end your marriage" boat. It's a sad commentary on our society, but to use that overused cliche, it is what it is.

The silent epidemic of sexless marriages is a big factor:

http://strengtheningmarriage.com/blog/marriage/

involuntary-celibacy

And in some cases (like mine), there's been plenty of sin on both sides...but only one side is willing to forgive and move forward.

As Daniel said, God hates divorce, but he also hates many things in a wife-driven, Beta/Gamma/Delta-follow marriage. Children complicate the picture immensely. It's hard to say what's worse on kids: divorce or witnessing a poor example of a constant nagging/zero intimacy marriage.

No easy way out, unfortunately. I pray that going simulated Alpha in a wise/appropriate way will be the answer.

Suz said...

Yes.
Put the wife in her place and insist that she understand she's LUCKY to have that "place." She is not in a position to be calling the shots and Hubby need to find his balls and tell her so.

Suz said...

She has just about nothing for which to forgive him, and she's not in a position to presume otherwise.

Daniel said...

Don't get me wrong - It is pretty clear that divorce is a horrible "solution" that leads to an early grave for just about everyone involved, and it is something to be avoided at most costs.

A man should never forget the potential impact he has on his wife, just by changing his behavior. Too often, though, a man changes his behavior in order to have some miraculous effect on his wife, and that's self-defeating. He needs to change his behavior for himself and his self-worth and (in the case of Christians) in obedience to Christ's example. (Hint: if you are in Tom's condition, start winding up a scourge.)

The best way to avoid divorce, counterintuitively to most non-natural alphas, is to be indifferent about its possibility. No pushing for it, no pulling against it. After all, under current law, you can't unilaterally do anything about it, no matter how "christy" or truly Christlike you become. If she wants to leave and blame Tom for it and get her stipend and the kids, there isn't enough supplication in the world to change her or the courts.

Tom's advantage is that he pretty obviously outranks his fat, slutty, violent-handed serial-divorcee of a wife. Her redemption is not of zero consequence, and women with no self-control are generally given the space to be that way, but still: she's not even trying to keep herself on his good side, and Tom (until now) has been okay with that, to the detriment of his soul and his family. He needs to stop laying down for the weak sister and instead figure out how to stand up and lead. If she won't follow, that's clearly on her.

Stickwick said...

Daniel, you explain the concepts of Game from a Christian perspective very well.

Another One said...

Thanks for the response. My situation is very different than Tom's. For one thing, my wife is hot, but has decided to put us in the "involuntary celibate" camp, which truly sucks.

I really don't want a divorce, and won't actively pursue it. I think you're right about the indifference, though. In the past, whenever their was a major conflict or (not very serious) threat of divorce, it put me in a short-term "Now I have to be a great husband!" mode. Of course, that never worked, as it mostly meant pedestalizing my wife.

Learning about game and perusing the "Manosphere" has given me a new perspective. I've wondered about a lot of these issues in the past, but always got the "Men, it's all your fault" line from pastors, Christian teachers, etc.

I have known a few guys who were Christian Alphas before it was cool, though. It's amazing how prescient they were, considering that they reached the same conclusions independently.

Anonymous said...

Another One:

I don't know you or your wife. But if she has decided not to have sex with you anymore, you need to rule out: (1) medical causes; (2) emotional causes; (3) another man (especially since she is hot).

deti

Another One said...

I'm pretty sure it's (2).

Anyway, we can get back to Tom. I just wanted him (and other lurkers) to know that a lot of us are in similar boats, though we're sailing on very different bodies of water.

Newly Aloof said...

Tom, go watch the movie Falling Down. Pay special attention to Detective Prendergast's relationship with his wife and how the end of the movie he FINALLY sets her ass straight.

Joe Blow said...

In "99 Problems," JayZ says, "if you're having girl trouble I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't one." He wrote that 8 years before he got married. He's got a new daughter now, and I notice he's been walking back a lot of his pre-marital tough talk. He couldn't write that song now.

I don't think you "win" your marriage or hit some state of perfection. I'm reasonably certain that it's a constant effort to maintain the proper frame and keep the moral high ground, at least if you're a man. Woman don't really follow the same rules we do, they go their own way without really thinking about it, and a lot of times it doesn't hurt them or their relationship very much. There are rules we men have to follow, however, and you ignore game principles at your peril since ignoring them will turn her off and likely wreck the relationship. We all got 99 problems, and if you're married, well, she's one of them.

Daniel said...

Think about trying this: at breakfast, say, "Hey, hon. I'm going to have sex tonight at 10 o'clock. I'm kind of hoping it is with you. If that sounds good, be there and ready. Either way, it's going to be great, but I'll check in with you first just in case you are down for that."

If, at 10 o'clock, she's not there and ready, head out for a while.

Can't guarantee anything, but that little exercise in leadership ended up with massive dividends (esp. since she didn't take it seriously the first time I did it, and had to follow through with the 10 o'clock appointment elsewhere - but man, things got plenty hot in a good way upon my return), but I don't want to assume or trivialize your wife's problems, because, in my case, it was just a random thing after a bad week, not a solution to legitimate long-term strife.

Still, it can't hurt to try!

Tom said...

Big update:

When she came home from work today she asked if I had talked to Lucy (she keeps asking questions about her) and I told her that I wasn't going to talk anymore about her unless it was extreme sarcasm. So I told her that Lucy came over this morning and cooked breakfast for me and the boys.

For some reason she didn't like that. She physically assaulted me but instead of going half fetal position this time I moved forward and restrained her and told her I would not allow her to hit me ever again. She told me to get out of the house and I said I wasn't going anywhere but she could GTFO if she wanted to.

She ran upstairs to call somebody, I don't know who, I didn't follow her. When she finally came back down I reiterated the fact that what I did was stupid, but I never even had any intentions of doing anything sexual and she needed to get over it.

I told her that I had been a wuss and let my emotions control me, which is why I listened to Lucy and why I didn't man-up when dealing with her. I told her I got my balls back now and I'm not taking any more crap from either one of them.

Then I told her that when she proposed that I leave and be with Lucy that I did seriously think about it and that I really didn't want to. I said that I wouldn't be with Lucy even if I got divorced because she's freakin' nuts. I told her that I wanted to be with her until we die. (But I didn't say it like a fag.)

She COMPLETELY turned around. It was amazing. She ended up hugging me, apologizing for scratching me, we ended up... well yeah... and holy crap, it was incredible. It was incredible.

I think Vox and this blog just saved my marriage.

Thanks.

Daniel said...

Nice work Tom. Aside from two things: 1) reiterating that what you did was stupid and 2)suggesting you never had intentions with Lucy could be counterproductive, you really led the house.

Very good work. Don't get caught in the afterglow of victory, though. The wife is going to increase the number of tests for a while now that you've passed this one and she's been thwarted. After such a long time of being taught that you are a doormat husband who couldn't protect her from danger (not even danger from a woman - after all, you crumpled against her attacks) her fear, hypergamy and survival instinct is going to tell her to press and test you harder going forward.

You need to pass them efficiently.

If I were to guess, the coming tests might include:

1) She'll sweetly ask for an assurance that you never talk to Lucy again. Don't give it - it will show her that you weren't serious about not talking about her except for sarcasm. Also, though, don't actually do that sarcasm thing often - instead don't talk about Lucy. Lucy's fight club now. Let your No (talking about Lucy) be a No she can trust.

2) She'll make off-hand comments about Lucy's sanity, gently suggesting that the only sort of woman you could get (outside of precious, precious her) would be damaged goods. It is a test of your self-worth. In addition to fight clubbing Lucy, make it clear that your wife is not your only option, and that there are plenty others who could make you happy, but that, because of your will, your character and your choice, you choose her.

3) She'll suggest couples counseling. Say "No, I've gotten right. I can lead you there too." Obviously, you aren't right (but you are on your way), but she's looking for you to admit you aren't strong enough or confident enough to follow through on this on your own. Later, if you really think some sort of wise counsel would be good for the two of you, you find it, you evaluate it and you initiate it, but only with a trusted follower with no financial interest in your "improvement."

4) She'll complain about being fat. Don't agree or disagree. Say, "If you want to get into better shape, I can help you get started doing X." Start a workout program for yourself and then get her to participate. Do not say stupid stuff that's not true like how you like curves or something (even on the off chance that you do like fat girls like some guys do - it isn't about what you like, anyhow - it is about what she perceives, and when she gets you to openly agree or argue about her weight, then you are failing the test and giving her ammo for future arguments - either the "You called me fat" one, the "you don't love me for who I am" one or the "you lied to my face about me being beautiful" one. That last one's a doozy.)

Anyhow, there are probably more tests she can come up with - it's like those loopy gals have a random shit-test generator built into their vaginas or something. I actually think that's by design: God wants women to help men be men, and passing tests is a major route toward that goal. The problem is that the appetite in man is to soothe the test, avoid the test, or simply not rise to the challenge in hopes of finding alternate routes to the pleasure of her company.

But as long as you are wary of them, you can successfully pass them all like the shit-test wizard you were built to be.

That's the practical application of Proverbs 30:30

There are three things that are stately in their stride,
four that move with stately bearing:
a lion, mighty among beasts,
who retreats before nothing;
a strutting rooster, a he-goat,
and a king secure against revolt.

Become the king secure against revolt. You are well on your way, just don't get snared after this initial victory. The war is far from over.

Tom said...

I normally don't put up with any crap. I did this time because I actually did do something stupid to deserve it to a certain extent.

She is losing weight now but it really is difficult for her. She's cut down to like 400 calories a day and still just barely loses weight. We do an MMA type workout that's pretty intense. And yes, of course she's done low carb. Works for the first week and that's about it.

We talked to some Christian counselor type guy the other day and he acted like it was no big deal that she physically assaulted me because I'm a big guy and can handle it.

I don't know where else to get sound advice on this kind of thing besides this blog.

Jules L. said...

I knew it. I kneeeewww it!!

[Runs screaming into the street]

Daniel said...

I could be missing something, but it still sounds like you think the Lucy thing was massively stupid and that you need to keep owning and apologizing for it (again, I could be misreading you - so take it as a bad read if that's what it is) but holy cow, it isn't, as far as I can tell, in any way, a sin against your wife, and it shouldn't be treated as such, otherwise she hasn't really learned a lesson.

The fact that she's hit you at least twice means that she felt free to do so.

Those two things: false witness of sins and the ease of violence are warning signs that might indicate that you've developed an unwitting tolerance for crap and your threshold for what is enough to be considered something you don't put up with is too high.

Avoid Christian counselors especially, except, again, if you are the one deciding to do it, are vetting the counselor, and it is for one meeting or two, and you feel free to let your wife know if it was a waste of time or not. But I gather you've already picked that up from your encounter with Pastor Clappydance.

Anonymous said...

This sounds like pretty good advice to me. Cool to see game advice from an actual Christian perspective.

Tom: Just in case this can help your wife, there's low-carb and there is low-carb. I'm just now reading Atkins (the 1992 one) and he specifies that to get the insulin levels under control and to start the serious fat burning, you must be under 20 grams of carb a day (basically that's like three handfuls of salad greens, or the equiv in nuts etc).
That's for the first two weeks. Then you move up to more generous amounts. Also, don't forget the supplementation, which also helps feed your cells and thus, helps quell appetite and normalize metabolism. Hope that helps. I am going to try it out starting tomorrow.

Anonymous said...

Also per Atkins (you probably know this), calorie count doesn't matter. Carb count OTOH -- extremely important!

Daniel said...

Just to be clear - it was a sin, but your wife was not the wronged party - God was. You put yourself in His place to accept worship from Lucy. Good news - you repented, it's blotted out. End of story. It's one thing to give your wife some rebound time after repenting and asking forgiveness (patience) but it is a false witness when she was never wronged in the first place.

R. Bradley Andrews said...

It is also important to find the diet that works for the individual. Counting calories has serious challenges. I believe Atkins did talk about hitting the wall as mentioned above, even early on.

Cail Corishev said...

I wouldn't go quite so far as to say his wife wasn't wronged. He gave another woman the kind of emotional intimacy that belongs to his wife alone, and kept it a secret from her to boot. Emotional intimacy is to women what physical intimacy is to men. Imagine that you're 40-something, and your 28-year-old wife goes and sleeps with a 33-year-old guy, and then tells you, "It meant nothing; it was only physical, no emotional involvement at all." I don't buy that it was totally innocent, either; on some (perhaps unconscious) level, he got off on knowing (as his first sentence says) that she had a thing for him, so he knew that it could go further if he let it. He needs to own up to what he was doing and make it right (to himself, if not his wife at this point).

Having said that, it deserved one straightforward apology and a promise that it wouldn't happen again, which it sounds like he's done. Repeated apologies and groveling will only encourage her over-the-top reaction, as others have pointed out.

Incidentally, this is a good example of why you shouldn't marry an older woman. She's 50ish, 30 years past her sexual prime, well into grandmother age, when people start thinking about retirement and attending more funerals than weddings. He's 40ish, still in his prime as a man or just past it, still potentially attractive to girls just out of college. Her weight is just the icing on an already massive cake. Of course she's going to be desperately insecure. It's no surprise that she might try to escalate problems to destroy the relationship and end the suspense of waiting for him to leave her.

I was once in a LTR with a woman 13 years older. When I was 23 and she was a fit 36-year-old divorcee who was catching up for lost time, it was a blast. At the time, I figured as we got older, the age difference would become less important. After all, what would age matter when you're both old -- what's 70/83, or 80/93? But I didn't think enough about the 30/43 to 40/53 stage, when I'd be going uphill and she'd be going downhill, to put it bluntly. That doesn't end well. I'd now say the ideal difference is for the man to be about 10 years older, but at least 5.

Athor pel said...

Tom,

Go here,

http://www.marksdailyapple.com//welcome-to-marks-daily-apple/#axzz2520bc3vs

and here,

http://www.archevore.com/get-started/


There are things about low carb you need to know. One being that going extremely low or no carb can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing, I'm talking about ketosis.

400 calories a day is a starvation diet. It does no good whatsoever. It is actually harmful. It isn't how much you eat that helps with body fat loss it is what you eat.

Daniel said...

I understand where you are coming from but I disagree. It isn't the first time I've heard people assert that "emotional intimacy" is the new cheating.

Talking to a girl isn't analogous, ever, to sleeping with a man. That's just ridiculous on the face of it, but I've heard it in church before, so I know it is one of those diabolical ideas that works itself into people's thinking.

For the sake of his wife's emotional fragility, Tom was a good husband to a) acknowledge that, like innocently walking after midnight through a bad neighborhood, something bad could have happened against his will (a boiled rabbit in the kitchen, for example), and he'll avoid doing that in the future and b) reinforce that he chooses to remain committed to his wife, based on his principles and desires.

No sin to apologize for. He didn't cheat. He didn't touch her. It isn't a sin to be tempted, if he was tempted. It was a sin to toy with temptation: a sin against God - but, again, God is the wronged party. The wife had nothing literally taken away from her, although, the potential for Tom to sin against her was certainly heightened.

Her expectation of an apology based on what she feels, not on what was actually done to her is just another test. He fails it every time he reaffirms his apology.

Don't fall for the woman's argument that what they define as "emotional affairs" (everything from chatting with a grocery clerk to watching porn(!) to literally wanting to run off with someone) falls anywhere in scripture. Can they be danger zones (or even sins of another type?) Of course - but not literal adultery against her. But to pretend like even they are in the same category as good old fashioned real adultery is a trap and a lie designed to make gammas out of all men.

The cake is a lie.

It sounds to me that despite all this stress for Tom, he is doing the best to navigate toward a better marriage, and obviously sees things in her despite all the flaws he's allowed to pass as virtue for a while that makes her a good helpmate. The age difference doesn't seem like it's been that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things to Tom, and, importantly, he still likes her.

He's done a good job of starting to prune her sinful branches (sloth, violence, haughtiness) and cultivate her good ones (faith, sex and, somewhat surprisingly, loyalty) and so, yes, while it is good counsel in general to steer young men away from older women for marriage, it is irrelevant to Tom, who is on a pretty solid mission to run the family he's got and loves.

After all, the fact is that almost all men could trade up to better wife - it is the nature of the beast - women simply have an earlier peak and a steep decline, so at some point in almost every marriage, there will be a point where husband and wife experience a hierarchy gap between them. This is where a man's value of loyalty comes in very useful for a woman, even if she isn't physically attracted to it.

The secular can discover a few bridges to build to cover that gap until the man's decline or inertia begins to close it again, but the Christian men have a secret omega weapon that makes that gap less relevant to the relationship and not a strain. (It's the same thing that casts out fear...and demons.)

Toby Temple said...

She COMPLETELY turned around. It was amazing.

See. Even when it is used for good, Game works. Good to hear about the good news, Tom.

Anonymous said...

Fast 5 worked well for me. Be patient... you spent years putting the weight on, expect some time for it to come off.

Anonymous said...

"We talked to some Christian counselor type guy the other day and he acted like it was no big deal that she physically assaulted me because I'm a big guy and can handle it."

This is bad. Don't mention what happened to anybody else... it should be just between the two of you and YOU control it as the Leader of the Home.

Josh said...

He gave another woman the kind of emotional intimacy that belongs to his wife alone, and kept it a secret from her to boot. Emotional intimacy is to women what physical intimacy is to men. Imagine that you're 40-something, and your 28-year-old wife goes and sleeps with a 33-year-old guy, and then tells you, "It meant nothing; it was only physical, no emotional involvement at all."

So, per your logic, if Tom had slept with Lucy, that would have been better because it would have been just physical?

What a load of crap.

Stickwick said...

She is losing weight now but it really is difficult for her. She's cut down to like 400 calories a day and still just barely loses weight. We do an MMA type workout that's pretty intense. And yes, of course she's done low carb. Works for the first week and that's about it.

This is why most women can't lose weight. All of the above is horribly counterproductive. I, too, struggled with losing excess weight, until I got some very good advice from a personal trainer, as follows.

First, absolutely go with a primal diet. Athor Pel recommended Mark's Daily Apple, which is also my recommendation. I bought Mark's book, The Primal Blueprint 21-Day Total Body Transformation to help me get started, and found it incredibly helpful. If your wife follows this plan, she will absolutely lose the excess weight. I don't even follow it super-strictly, and it still works miracles for me.

Second, go with the primal exercise plan. This involves a lot of strolling-type walking, some weight-lifting, and a weekly interval session. Prior to this, I was doing intense daily workouts, and it did nothing for me -- I lost no weight, and got headaches that lasted for days.

Lastly, you must encourage your wife to have patience and faith that this will work. There will be metabolic resistance to any changes she makes, which is why it often takes one or two months for the weight loss to start once changes have been made. I nearly gave up, because I saw no weight loss for the first two months. It was awful, and I wanted to quit every single day. But my trainer encouraged me to persevere, and after those two months, BAM, the weight started flying off. I'm talking 2-4 lbs per week. And I felt unbelievably good. If your wife follows the primal plan, her moods will even out, she'll have so much energy she won't know what to do with it, and any minor ailments she has will likely disappear.

Best of luck to you both.

King A (Matthew King) said...

Vox wrote: "Don't white knight. Ever. You are responsible for helping your wife and your daughters. Maybe your mother and your sisters as well in some circumstances, depending upon the situation. That's it. The rest of the 3 billion+ female population is neither your problem nor your responsibility."

Wrong answer, Christian. (I especially like the "maybe" qualifier before "your mother and your sisters," too.)

No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main ... any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. (John Donne)

Fortunately, Vox ends his anti-Christian sentiment with something a little closer to the mark:

"The key metric: if you wouldn't do it for an ugly old man, you don't do it for a pretty young girl."

There's the rub, if you're looking for it. The Christian indeed does have the responsibility for every other human being on the planet, including if not especially his enemies, unto the sacrifice of all he has and all he is, up to the offering of one's very life, excruciating torture, and death (cf. the Cross) so that his worst enemy and history's most evil soul can come even one inch closer to his salvation. If you do not accept that radical formula, you are not Christian in the last analysis. Insofar as you compose justifications against this duty, you set yourself against Christ himself. Not a place you want to be.

The problem with "white knighting" is not with the fact that you are assisting others. The problem is -- as always with the virtue of caritas -- the ulterior motives animating the action, which strips it of its virtuous content. The hardest part of charity is insisting on the denial of quid pro quo. We do things for others with the expectation of benefit, even if that benefit is the satisfaction of being the agent of the good. This is better than nothing, but it is not agape. White knights help women in sad imitation of agape so that women will admire them and give them attention in return. This is rightly derided as pathetic. Christians help women because women need help and can give them nothing in return.

This failure of distinction has allowed Christianity to be characterized as a sophisticated rationale for the white knight impulse and nothing more. The correspondent Tom bungled this distinction badly (as most betas do these days), and Vox translated the man's error into a crude anti-Christian maxim, partially redeemed in the last sentence by promoting a "pretty young girl/ugly old man" test.

Matt


Jim said...

"The Christian indeed does have the responsibility for every other human being on the planet, including if not especially his enemies, unto the sacrifice of all he has and all he is, up to the offering of one's very life, excruciating torture, and death"

Great. Empty your bank account, send it to me and then jump off a tall building. It will help me get saved. And you dont have the right to question if my method is the right one to lead to my salvation. Thanks.

Axe Head said...

King Matt, I guess I'm not a Christian then, thanks for the enlightenment.

Daniel said...

Wrong Christianity, King. You have grossly misconstrued Christ's teaching into a modern messiah complex.

There is no command from Jesus or his disciples that indicates, in any way, that we are responsible for every other human being on the planet. You have completely misinterpreted the straightforward understanding of "loving your enemies," "dying to yourself," and "providing for the weak." We shall not, however, be as gods, which is what you are pushing for.

Christianity in no way, translates into responsibility for everyone.

In fact, it is noteworthy that you've modified the Word of the Lord in a way quite similar to Eve in the Garden:

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it." - God

"Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?" - Serpent

"Of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." - Eve

Stop trying to one-up Jesus by judging who is and who is not "Christian enough" for your tastes, and adding burdens to the Life that Jesus has laid out. That's not exactly a Christian approach.

Josh said...

So no one has ever been a Christian. Bravo.

King A (Matthew King) said...

Dear Captain Tom Save-a-Ho,

Bless you for recounting the painful details of your misadventure. You give ho-saving a bad name, and yet by your admission you allow us to help establish the crucial distinction between maladroit beta bungling in the name of making-up-for-lost-opportunity pussy-hunting and genuine assistance toward salvation.

Most girls are damaged goods these days. Twenty-six-year-olds approaching their aesthetic doomsday are acute examples of women suddenly conscious of their need for redemption against the desperation of a ticking clock. (cf. Roissy's commenter Maya for a pristine representative of the type.) We are all sinners standing in need of salvation; some more aware than others, especially as the kingdom of this world, which heretofore catered to a young girl's every whim, is slowly, gradually, and mercilessly abandoning her to a House of Many Cats.

Your wife's repulsive physique and hair-trigger hysterics are indications that she hates you. Worse still, she may be indifferent or passively contemptuous of the man that you have become. There is no love, much less admiration, much less submission. Much work to be done there. Much pain in the name of discipline to be doled out there. Much self-improvement. Much metanoia.

In other words, you are in perhaps the worst possible position to saveaho. Your attempts at salvation are obviously the product of your attraction to this cutely confused sylph -- despite your guilt and somewhat admirable (if pathetic) prophylactic measures against acting on that attraction. Come, wifey, help me pray with this girl. O, what layers of delusion!

Aimless young women can indeed be put on a path to righteousness, but not by men without a handle on their desires, as you clearly lack. And this is even before you encounter the far stronger temptation that accompanies her attraction to you after she is lifted from the slough of despond.

Think of her as a daughter. Can you do that asexually, or is your betadom so advanced that you cannot contain your sexuality even over your potential offspring? (No offense to you, it is a common destiny of the beta to become predatory against the vulnerable in his frustrations.)

You have to not only become aware of all the dynamics going on, you must become Master of the Three Ring Circus of Hypergamy which lately has degenerated into post-terrorist chaos, as if a bomb had gone off under the Big Top. Management begins with disciplining and sublimating your attraction toward proper ends. It continues by turning your wife into a faithful ally rather than an envious shrew. It ends by being the daddy this little girl never had, and then delivering her up to The Daddy, God her Almighty Father.

She is not attracted to you. She is attracted to the possibility of salvation that lies beyond you, that shines through you. That is an awful responsibility, but also a wondrous one. Don't mess it up with your marital frustrations. Align everything and everyone before you with the only needful project. We save ourselves by saving others.

Matt

Daniel said...

Proof of the resurrection. Frank Dec is alive!

Anonymous said...

"Greater love hath no man than this: That he lay down his life for his friends."

No man is called to lay down his life for anyone who demands it of him. He is called only to lay down his life FOR HIS FRIENDS.

deti

King A (Matthew King) said...

You want to blunt the radical message of Christ to make it more comfortable for you. "Because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth."

You want to declare Christianity impossible. "When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished, saying, 'Who then can be saved?' But Jesus looked at them and said to them, 'With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.'"

You respond to Christ's challenge with sarcasm and incredulity. "'This saying is hard; who can accept it?' Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, 'Does this shock you?'"

You comfort yourself believing that Christ doesn't really want everything of us. Surely he cannot mean everything! "If any one comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple. ... Whoever of you does not renounce all of his possessions cannot be my disciple."

Catechize yourselves, CINOs. We will "alter not a word" to make your feminine sensibilities more comfortable, to make the commandments of Christ more palatable to your lazy, wimpy, pagan ways. Christianity has never been for the faint of heart.

Recall mass last Sunday (did you go? did you listen? did you understand?):

"'The words I have spoken to you are Spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.' Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him. ... As a result of this, many of his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him."

"Jesus then said to the Twelve, 'Do you also want to leave?'

"Simon Peter answered him, 'Master, to whom shall we go?'"


Whom do you serve? Christ didn't promise an easy path. He promised the Via Dolorosa, he guaranteed you The Cross. Accept it or renounce it. Pray for courage. This is what the test looks like.

Matt


Josh said...

Freaking Catholics.

This is the fruit of a millennium of a church run by geldings and eunuchs.

Josh said...

We save ourselves by saving others.

We are incapable of saving ourselves.

Only the blood of Jesus can save us.

King A (Matthew King) said...

Deti the Lukewarm prophesied: "No man is called to lay down his life for anyone who demands it of him. He is called only to lay down his life FOR HIS FRIENDS."

Who said the criterion for sacrifice was "anyone who demands it of him"? We "lay down" our lives to bring forth the kingdom, not to satisfy some unrepentant sinner's relativistic, selfish notions of his own need.

"He is called only to lay down his life" FOR HIS BRAHS. What presumption to append "only" to the Word of God, indeed the very words of Christ himself! Christ died for all sinners, haven't you heard? You are called upon to take up your own cross in like manner, haven't you heard? He dined with publicans and prostitutes, he kissed those who would kill him, he forgave the ones who knew not what they had done. He cracked open the cycle of death by his own example, and he rose with the promise that you too will follow. You clearly have not heard the Good News.

I no longer wonder why you are such enthusiastic Christians. Like women, you think it is all crown, no cross, and you edit scripture accordingly to sustain the happy illusion. Where's the downside?

No. Christ came to set a fire upon the earth, and would that it were already kindled.

Matt

King A (Matthew King) said...

Josh The Fully Testicular Keyboard Hero whimpered: "Freaking Catholics. This is the fruit of a millennium of a church run by geldings and eunuchs."

All of my quotations were direct from scripture, from the bible recognized by Christians of every stripe. Is it scripture you reject or just the church that was established in that scripture?

If the latter, you provide an example why Christians outside Petrine leadership now follow priestesses in lavender collars and "bishops" who delight in "church"-sanctioned sodomy for lack of the Holy Spirit. Your proud "independence" amounts to slavery to men. (And now, women.)

If the former, get out of my sight. I am not addressing you, and I do not cast pearls before swine.

Matt

Toddy Cat said...

Here's what the Catholic Encyclopedia (published in 1913, no wishy-washy Vatican II cafeteria stuff here!)says about the theological virtue of charity...

" We are bound to succour our neighbour in extreme spiritual necessity even at the cost of our own life, an obligation which, however supposes the certainty of the neighbour's need and of the effectiveness of our service to him.

Except in the very rare cases described above, we are not bound to risk life or limb for our neighbour, but only to undergo that amount of inconvenience which is justified by the neighbour's need and nearness. Casuists are not agreed as to the right to give one's life for another's life of equal importance.

And as for your uncalled-for comment to Deti, "You clearly have not heard the Good News", Jesus also said, Judge not, lest ye be judged" pal. You are no judge of any man's salvation, or lack thereof. So knock it off.



King A (Matthew King) said...

"Only the blood of Jesus can save us."

No shit, sherlock. Now you wax literal?

Please tell me there is more to your superficial analysis than niggling over syntax torn from context.

Schoolmarms alert to gotcha moments. Where are the men here?

Matt

King A (Matthew King) said...

"We are bound to succour our neighbour in extreme spiritual necessity even at the cost of our own life, an obligation which, however supposes the certainty of the neighbour's need and of the effectiveness of our service to him."

This is supportive of precisely what I said.

And don't dredge up the only line in the bible every relativist can cite, unless you want to go to war with me. I was not commenting on the condition of Deti's soul, drama queen. I was observing in the spirit of fraternal correction that he is behaving as though we are not living Anno Domini. Death has been destroyed, yet he still lives in fear of it, and worse, promotes the phobia as Christian commandment. This is scandal.

Matt

Toddy Cat said...

Stuff it, pal (I say that of course only in the spirit of fraternal correction). You neglected the second paragraph, which states that, except in VERY RARE cases, we are not obligated to lay down our lives for others. The girl in question was not obviously in extreme spiritual need, she was not starving or dying, and Tom did not need to risk his marriage in order to help her. Also, there is NO biblical support for the idea that we should love others MORE than ourselves, or that we should love enemies more than friends. By taking this position, you are already putting people off of Christianity And that's scandal, if I've ever heard of it.

Toddy Cat said...

And as for the "drama queen", accusation, let it be noted that I'm not the one who accused Vox of "setting himself against Christ himself", accused Danial of "not hearing the good news" and of claiming that we are required to give everything we have to bring someone "one inch" closer to salvation, which goes right against the passage I quoted from the Catholic Encyclopedia, which states that it is "an obligation which, however supposes the certainty of the neighbour's need and of the effectiveness of our service to him". In other words, we are only to endure such sacrifices if we KNOW that the person in question has such a need, and that our sacrifice is SURE to save him, which is totally non-applicable to the situation we are talking about. Drama, drama everywhere.

JCclimber said...

Tom,
print out this entire commentary and comment section, including Matt's harsh but accurate criticism of your actions and rationalizations. His comments will only hurt to the exact degree that they are accurate. If they sting, then they are on the target.

Read it every morning for the next month (September). Then read it every week for 3 months. Then read it every month.

Your wife had makeup sex with your for only one reason - You upped the alpha. You need to be reminded of your need to alpha every interaction with her until you have crushed the beta inside.

That is all.

Josh said...

Christians outside Petrine leadership now follow priestesses in lavender collars and "bishops" who delight in "church"-sanctioned sodomy for lack of the Holy Spirit.

I forgot about the enormous scandal of protestants molesting children.

Oh wait, that was your precious priesthood of faggots and pederasts.

Vox said...

Pure Churchian bullshit. You preach blatant lies, Matt. Jesus himself wasn't going to help the Samaritan woman until she repeatedly begged him.

Also, you're completely off-topic. This is not a discussion of Christian or Churchian theology, it is a response to a man's question about his marital problem. So drop it.

You're certainly free to offer your own opinion about how you think he should respond. You're not free to try to sell your extra-Biblical theological snake oil.

Cail Corishev said...

No, I'm not saying it would have been better to sleep with her. I'm saying that a woman feels betrayed by her man sharing emotional intimacies with another woman in a way analogous (not equivalent) to the way a man feels when his wife shares her body with another man. Yes, a woman will be upset if her husband sleeps with another woman, and a man will be upset if his wife gets too emotional with another man. But I don't think those cut as deeply as the opposite combinations.

This wasn't just "talking to a girl." He said right up front that he knew this girl was "interested" in him. He still arranged to meet her without his wife present. He knew that was wrong, and he knew it was wrong to keep it secret from his wife -- that's why he wanted to tell her, as he said. Was it adultery? Of course not. It wasn't even a sin, if his intentions were really as pure as he says. But did he do something that he knew would hurt his wife? Yes, so he owed her one (1) manly apology. That's all. That doesn't mean she deserves to beat him up over it.

I was divorced for so-called "emotional abuse," so trust me, I know what BS terms like "emotional affair" can be and how easily they get thrown around. From Tom's description, I don't think he was doing that at all, and he stopped it before the girl could take it that far. But had he not agreed to meet the girl alone, or not kept it a secret at first, he could have avoided hurting his wife with even the appearance of hanky-panky.

In any case, I'm glad he seems to have stemmed the tide. It really is amazing what a little Game can do.

Californio_6th_ gen said...

Sounds like somebody needs to get kicked out of Opus Dei.....

Tom said...

Update

So yesterday as we were "making up" for the 4th time in 24 hours she said she wanted to tell me she loved me but it didn't seem like the words would be enough. It was like we were closer than we had ever been.

Then this morning, a little while after "making up" yet again, she asks me another question about Kelly. I had walked Kelly and her friend out to her car after our gig last Friday and my wife was wondering why it took so long.

I told her why (we went out the front of the building which is opposite of the parking lot and the band and my wife normally go out the back door that's really just for staff) but I should probably just refuse to talk about that stuff anymore.

What do you guys think?

She doesn't realize that me being an "ass hole" is what turned this around. She thinks it was because she came to her senses despite me being an ass hole. Do you tell women what's really going on?

Houston said...

"She doesn't realize that me being an "ass hole" is what turned this around. She thinks it was because she came to her senses despite me being an ass hole. Do you tell women what's really going on?"

I can, and do, tell my wife how and why Game works on her. But she's way more introspective and emotionally stable than the average woman. Still, I'd never inform her immediately after a show of dominance, "You see, hon, the reason why you just backed down is..."

If your wife is emotionally unstable and suspicious, don't tell her how Game works. Just do what you need to do.

SarahsDaughter said...

I remember clearly, from my own experience, what is going on with her. It's actually physiological too. If you could monitor her heart rate when she asks these questions, you'd be fascinated. In her mind she wants to be clear of all the details. She's logged every exchange she's ever witnessed or heard about with vivid detail in her brain. These details are a series of tests that you need to pass in order for her to make sure everything is okay, you're telling the truth, and honestly, an attempt to convict you of something. She thinks she wants to breathe a sigh of relief but the exhilaration is what is driving this.
You've been told to not trust the make up sex as "everything's all good now." It's not, it is more euphoria on this roller coaster. When I was doing to my husband what she is doing to you, he didn't have sex with me. We had even gotten away to a beautiful vacation spot. It doesn't matter how much you try to run back to the "in love" stage of your marriage (Eros love), it won't fix what's wrong.
I hid behind my husband when it came to my faith and relationship with God. If he was fallible, then what hope was there? (Similar to your situation, he wronged me according to my standards, not God's). Though wives are to submit to their husbands, the first Commandment still holds true. Wives need to abide in God first. We are three years along this journey of me strengthening my relationship with God independent of my husband. It started with me reading "Love and Respect." God does not command wives to "respect their husbands unless...," - there are no qualifiers. This is very hard for women to internalize. It is a concept so foreign that it really takes her trusting God first. Your wife, like me, is like the Biblical Sarah, who was audacious enough to laugh at God.
When I decided that I no longer wanted to experience that physiological roller coaster (out of control hamster), I read 1 Peter 3 over and over again.
We've been married 17 years, only the last three have I put my relationship with God first before my feelings. Once she will abide in God and release you to God - releasing all control she thinks she has over you and releasing all of her standards, she can begin respect you as she's commanded to.
This is a very important time in her life with regards to her relationship with God. It is crucial that you step aside, as painful as it can be to watch, and allow it to happen.
My husband successfully did this by not feeding the beast. He would not answer the prodding questions, he would walk away, go to sleep, and hang up on me, but he would not cave to my insecurity.

She is not ready yet to hear the principles of Game and how it's been working. She will use this to manipulate. If you've been telling her, don't be surprised if the next time, if you, in a moment of weakness do not hold your frame, she will pounce and in the most evil of ways, tell you that you are not up for the challenge.

Toby Temple said...

The hamster spineth! And it spineth for thee, Tom.

Praise God for your marriage being saved!

Toby Temple said...

Tom,

Do not ever pay attention to what King A posted. It is a complete waste of time.

She is not attracted to you. She is attracted to the possibility of salvation that lies beyond you, that shines through you.

This is pure stupidity, even naivete. It's King A with his hamster spinning.

Daniel said...

And just let those tests come, because they are going to come in heaps, but your ability to "agree and amplify" (above) has been proven - you can do it every time.

She will ask all sorts of questions: you can't begin to anticipate them all (mostly because most of them are fundamentally nuts from a man's perspective, and often crafted on vapors: answer "wrong" and she's got you - answer "right" and she's got you. It's not "The Lady or the Tiger?" it is "The Tiger or the Tiger?"

The good news is that your purpose is not to answer them. She's a panicky rabbit right now, her assertions are really just smokescreens she's throwing up hoping not to be caught in your glare.

You failed the test question about the girl. A shrug and "not much" is the most verbose answer you should ever give when the wife asked about a girl, any girl.

"What were you talking about?"

"Not much."

"Do you think she's pretty?"

"Not much."

"Do you think she's prettier than me?"

"Not much."

"OH MY GOD! You think I'm ugly!"

"Not much."

"So what's wrong with me?"

"Not much."

"Awww. I love you too."

Seriously. It makes no sense, but you need to stop thinking that her questions are real. Because they aren't.

Trust me, if you are factually correct and seem, to her, to be emphatic about your answer, her brain will say "Oh my God, he's such an arrogant prick. He never thinks he's wrong." Her mouth will say something like, "Why do you always have to be such a jerk?"

Meanwhile, you are standing at the open refrigerator door that you went to at her request, saying, "Uhm...all I said was that yes, you are right: there are a half-dozen eggs left in here."

To which, she will sanely reply, "It's not what you say, its the way you say it!" and begin weeping.

But get this straight: that's her problem. It's yours for not realizing after all these years that it's time to stop answering to your subordinate. Mistake #1 was yours: blindly doing her bidding ("going to the fridge") without consideration.

I'm not saying you can't do favors for your wife - but answering her questions is, in general, not a favor. It is only going to make her more nervous.

("Oh my God, he actually answered my question about that girl with more than two sentences. He's IN LOVE WITH HER!!! The cheating bastard.")

Good answers to a woman are like a good Indian to General Sheridan - dead. She isn't listening to your words. She's plopping your words into an emotional paradigm.

Stop feeding her words.

Daniel said...

Correction: that's not her problem. It's yours.

(i.e. you, like most men, are the dummy who hasn't fully realized that answering questions at face value to your wife is harmful to your relationship. She wants neither answers nor the truth. She wants assurances, and she has no idea how you can provide that, only a sense of peace when you do. Usually by not paying any attention to her incessant worries.)

Daniel said...

Game's not some big secret: it is the way people work. It's not like a man jumping off a bridge begins to fly around like a glider as soon as he becomes aware of the law of gravity, after all.

Having said, that, most women are no more interested in the inner workings of Game than they are in astrophysics, except as it applies to them personally.

Even those rare women who are fully Game aware by choice are no less affected by its precepts. Game is as close to a behavioral law in sociology as you will find.

King A (Matthew King) said...

Not sure what to make of "fraternal correction" from a dude who chooses to identify himself by the name "Toddy Cat."

Engaging you toadies is like arguing with liberals. You only know how to create and berate straw men.

The pederasty scandal in the church was a rogue element -- sheer statistics bear it out, given the 90+% man-on-boy predation, and given the lower rate of abuse than in comparable settings, such as public teaching. This was an evil that infiltrated the church, was contrary to the church, and now has been (over-) corrected by the church. Female preachers, gay bishops, and perversions of the sacrament of matrimony have become officially sanctioned policy encouraged by some sectarians and replicated to much applause.

And Vox, lovie, your little lickspittle brought up the non sequitur of my Catholicism with fighting words. I will respond, despite your temptations to Scalzian selectivity about which provocations are "free to" stand based on whether they align with your own preference. "Drop" this. Ban/censor me like the pansy you just engaged on another site, or leave me to reply freely to full-throated criticism.

No one said Christ's radicalism applied to more than "VERY RARE cases." My point was Vox blunted Christ's radicalism when it was unnecessary to. We all agree "the girl in question was not obviously in extreme spiritual need," and therefore did not merit the ultimate sacrifice -- only a deliberate misreading of me could conjure such an odd claim. We do not offer our throats to prevent another's hangnail.

But we are tempted to temper the radical nature of the Christian Directive out of convenience, and Vox did worse than simply deny it, he stated it as policy. To err is Christian; to proclaim contrary doctrine to justify one's errors is heresy. Which also is fine. Go start one more of the 20,000 sects "protest[ing]" against the magisterium founded by Christ himself. I will simply note the latest schism in the Body of Christ that originates in arrogance, personal pique, and refusal to acknowledge error.

Matt





King A (Matthew King) said...

Tom wrote: "What do you guys think?"

I think you need to do a little less reconciling and a little more bluff-calling. You have to establish your dominance, and her attempted power-play is an excellent opportunity to remind her who is boss.

"She thinks it was because she came to her senses despite me being an ass hole." FAIL. "Despite"? She must become habituated to cause-and-effect, and you must become the Wife Whisperer. Instead you have given her an escape route that preserves the righteousness of her initial indignation.

"Do you tell women what's really going on?" No, you don't tell them. You show them.

Christianity is deeply relevant to your predicament, despite our host's misgivings. You identified yourself as Christian and you relied on your faith to help deliver you from this situation. But you bungled it despite your technical win on points, and in the process you re-confirm for all the haters out there that Christianity is nothing more than Betas Go To Church.

Now you continue to bungle it, making reconciliation with your wife at any cost a higher priority than Mercy or Justice. You were not anything close to "asshole." That you (or she) believe so means you need an entirely new standard of measurement.

You have come to the right place to discover new standards of measurement. The life of the church depends on men like you taking the proverbial "red pill," rather than subtly reconfirming the platitudinous feminism that has desiccated manly Christianity over the last several decades (... not unlike the Republican Convention's sickening "Woman's Night" grovel-show!).

Your woman wants to be led. But she remains an unbreakable wild horse so long as you fail to consciously pursue an "in but not of" approach to the now subtly feminist culture. So you tamed her for a night. Felt good, didn't it? Her sisters, her habits, and sheer cultural preponderance will pull her back to disobedience. You, your faith, and God's grace alone stand athwart the gravity of the Kingdom of this World. "My grace is sufficient for you" (2 Cor 12:9). That is enough. You have all you need. What remains is to unite your will to the victory.

"What then shall we say to this? If God is for us, who is against us?" (Rom 8:31). Christian, remember your dignity!

and, now that you share in God's own nature, do not return to your former base by sinning. Remember who is your head and of whose body you are a member. Never forget that you have been rescued from the power of darkness and brought into the light of the Kingdom of God. -- Pope St. Leo the Great

Matt

King A (Matthew King) said...

The word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Cor 1:18)

I ask for men to speak in opposition, and forward step the Toddies and Tobies.

What is it with this place? It reeks o' the rotten fens, whose loves I prize / As the dead carcasses of unburied men / That do corrupt my air.

Matt

Anonymous said...

@Tom -

It's really hard to overcome the indoctrination we've all been through. Seriously, just like everyone has re-iterated, always screen what she says through a playground. She really doesn't know what she's talking about and she doesn't really understand herself either.

I'm still trying to accomplish this in my relationship with my wife... I took her seriously as a "logical person" for many years. And my wife is better than most, which is why it took a long time for things to blow up (similar to your relationship) and for me to finally go searching for answers.

Keep reading and digesting this stuff everyday. If I skip this blog for a week or so, I fall back into pre-"game" beta thought patterns.

BTW, I haven't told my wife about "game" and probably won't on purpose. Like Houston mentioned earlier, my wife would probably take it well and might really appreciate understanding why her friends act/react the way they do.

Toby Temple said...

Again, pay not attention to King A's post.

He claims his words are of the Holy Spirit and instantly dismisses others who do not agree with him as heretics.

The obvious show of stupidity alone disproves his prideful claim to divine wisdom.

Markku said...

I ask for men to speak in opposition, and forward step the Toddies and Tobies.

Obviously you are alone. Now, I can guess your rejoinder. And you can guess my rejoinder to it. So, the interesting question is, will you insist on being the forum's resident bloviator or will you GTFO.

Markku said...

Well, unless Holla reads AG too. He wouldn't be able to contain his Catholic Chauvinism.

VD said...

I told her why (we went out the front of the building which is opposite of the parking lot and the band and my wife normally go out the back door that's really just for staff) but I should probably just refuse to talk about that stuff anymore.

Yes, you should. When she starts asking questions like that, just roll your eyes and tell her "don't do that to yourself". Do not respond to the prosecuting hamster.

Do you tell women what's really going on?

Never. All they do is come up with reasons why it doesn't apply to them. When will you understand that women don't think like men? If she cared how and why things worked, she'd be a mechanic or a scientist. She isn't. So she doesn't.

Anonymous said...

Good call. The male equivalent of a slut is the emotionally available man.

What is this nonsense. What man is "emotionally available"? The reason woman don't like men who are "emotionally available" with women is because they correctly sense that it's a ploy to get sex. You guys just pick up anything getting tossed around and parrot it like it's the deepest truth.

Anonymous said...

You comfort yourself believing that Christ doesn't really want everything of us. Surely he cannot mean everything!

Owned my Matthew King. You guys think you're going to heaven because you identify with Christianity and wear it like a badge boy scouts wear. Not only do you not struggle, you don't even know what the struggle is.

Vox didn't you say that you came to Christianity because your decadent life just wasn't satisfying enough?

There must be more

There is, but if you even dare to look you won't like what you see.

stg58 said...

I recently deleted my FB account while in the process of interviewing for a sales management position, but while I did have the account, I used it for political organizing, as well as keeping in touch with military brothers.

I also utilize Facebook for telling women they should not be allowed to vote, advocating the end of the Federal drug war and that homosexuals should not be allowed to donate blood or marry.

If facebook is for fags, so is the internet. TLM, that makes you a fag. Grab your ever loving ankles.

stg58 said...

My wife tells me she wants it to be natural. I don't know what that means, but in practice, it means she doesn't have to do anything.

stg58 said...

Sounds like someone needs to get laid.

Anonymous said...

"It isn't the first time I've heard people assert that "emotional intimacy" is the new cheating."

Women should be careful making this into the next best thing as they are most likely the ones doing it most. I highly doubt men develop deep emotional intimacy with women besides their wife more so than women do with men besides their husbands. It is women who crave this the most by far and it is so easy to make it look innocent you are going to find many dissatisfied wives setting up such friendships that take it too far. More so than men who would be looking more for sexual intimacy.

empathological said...

This thinking on divorce is badly flawed.
If one wishes to proceed w/ divorce, then do so. But own it. Do not play this game of saying its wrong BUT so is this and that.
Divorce is wrong but so is the crisis in Darfur

Daniel said...

Uh...when has that ever stopped them before?

Men have "emotional affairs." Women get "swept away in the moment."

Men who murder are violent. Women who murder are cornered.

Men with guns are scary. Women with guns are empowered.

Heroic men are oppressive. Heroic women are the norm.

Domestic discord is the man's fault. Domestic harmony is due only to a strong woman.

The kicker?

Men have responsibilities they abdicate, but it is only women who have to face a double standard.

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Anonymous said...


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Rebecca Kemaya said...


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Anna Giovanni said...



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Anna Giovanni said...



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George Ewumbua said...

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Isabella Molly said...


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slim colvin said...

'I was married for five years without any child,because of this my husband start acting very strange at home,coming home lately and not spending time with me any more. and because of this my husband divorce me. So i became very sad and lost in life because my doctor told me there is no way for me to get pregnant this really make life so hard for me and my family.my friend told me about Dr Zuma zuk from the Internet,how he has helped people with this similar problem that i am going through so i contacted him and explain to him.he cast a reunite spell to bring back my husband and it was a miracle three days later my husband can back to apologize for all he has done and told me he is fully ready to support me in any thing i want,few month later i got pregnant and gave birth to twins (girls) we are happy with ourselves. Thanks to Dr Zuma zuk for saving my relationship and for also saving others too. continue your good work, If you are interested to contact him and testify this blessings like me, the great spell caster email address is:(spiritualherbalisthealers@gmail.com)

JessicaRuiz said...

How to get your ex husband back
My name is Jessica Ruiz from Florida I have to give this miraculous testimony, which is so unbelievable until now. I had a problem with my Ex husband 2years ago, which lead to our break up. when he broke up with me, I was not my self again, i felt so empty inside me, my love and financial situation became worst, until a close friend of mine Lucy told me about a spell caster who helped her in the same problem too his name is Dr Shiva at hinduspelltemple@yahoo.com . I email Dr Shiva the spell caster and i told him my problem and i did what he asked of me, to cut the long story short. Before i knew what was happening my husband gave me a call and told me that he was coming back to me in just 2days and was so happy to have him back to me. We have two kids together and we are happy with ourselves. Thanks to Dr Shiva hinduspelltemple@yahoo.com for saving my relationship and for also saving others own too. continue your good work, If you are interested to contact him and testify this blessings like me, the great spell caster email address is hinduspelltemple@yahoo.com you are the best among all the spell caster online I hope you see my testimonies and also pray for my family too.
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Reply Delete

James Rose said...

i want to give thanks to my dr and i will always give thanks to DR OGUDUDU who brought back my love that has left me for 6years within 48hours, i have said about this last week but i promised to always tell people about this every week end so that those that did not read about it last week will read about it this week, i have been looking for how to get this boy back to my life because i love this boy with the whole of my heart, i could not replace him with any body,one day i was watching my television when i saw a lady giving thanks to DR OGUDUDU and telling the world how he helped her i was so shocked i could not believe it because i never taught that there are powers that can bring back lost love, then that was how i decided to contact him too because i do really need my love back,when i contacted him i told him everything and he told me not to worry that my love will surely be back to my arms within 48hours at first i could not believe because i was thinking how could somebody that has gone for 6years come back within 48 hours,so then i decided to watch and see,unbelievable within the next 48hours i got a call from unknown number so i decided to pick the call the next thing i could hear was my loves voice he was pleading and begging me on the phone that i should forgive him that i should forget all that have happened that he did not know what came over him,he promised not to leave for any reason, that he was really sorry for what he did,i was so surprised because i never believed that this could happen,so that was how i accepted his apology and the next morning he came to my house and still pleading for me to forgive, him i told him that everything is okay that i have forgiven him, that was how we started again and now we are married, i promised to say this testimony in radio station, commenting this testimony is still okay but before this month runs out i promise to say this in radio station and i will,sir thank you very much.World please am begging you people to try and thank this man for me,or if you need his help here is his email address drogududuspellhome@gmail.com. THANK YOU DR

James Rose said...

i want to give thanks to my dr and i will always give thanks to DR OGUDUDU who brought back my love that has left me for 6years within 48hours, i have said about this last week but i promised to always tell people about this every week end so that those that did not read about it last week will read about it this week, i have been looking for how to get this boy back to my life because i love this boy with the whole of my heart, i could not replace him with any body,one day i was watching my television when i saw a lady giving thanks to DR OGUDUDU and telling the world how he helped her i was so shocked i could not believe it because i never taught that there are powers that can bring back lost love, then that was how i decided to contact him too because i do really need my love back,when i contacted him i told him everything and he told me not to worry that my love will surely be back to my arms within 48hours at first i could not believe because i was thinking how could somebody that has gone for 6years come back within 48 hours,so then i decided to watch and see,unbelievable within the next 48hours i got a call from unknown number so i decided to pick the call the next thing i could hear was my loves voice he was pleading and begging me on the phone that i should forgive him that i should forget all that have happened that he did not know what came over him,he promised not to leave for any reason, that he was really sorry for what he did,i was so surprised because i never believed that this could happen,so that was how i accepted his apology and the next morning he came to my house and still pleading for me to forgive, him i told him that everything is okay that i have forgiven him, that was how we started again and now we are married, i promised to say this testimony in radio station, commenting this testimony is still okay but before this month runs out i promise to say this in radio station and i will,sir thank you very much.World please am begging you people to try and thank this man for me,or if you need his help here is his email address drogududuspellhome@gmail.com. THANK YOU DR

James Rose said...

i want to give thanks to my dr and i will always give thanks to DR OGUDUDU who brought back my love that has left me for 6years within 48hours, i have said about this last week but i promised to always tell people about this every week end so that those that did not read about it last week will read about it this week, i have been looking for how to get this boy back to my life because i love this boy with the whole of my heart, i could not replace him with any body,one day i was watching my television when i saw a lady giving thanks to DR OGUDUDU and telling the world how he helped her i was so shocked i could not believe it because i never taught that there are powers that can bring back lost love, then that was how i decided to contact him too because i do really need my love back,when i contacted him i told him everything and he told me not to worry that my love will surely be back to my arms within 48hours at first i could not believe because i was thinking how could somebody that has gone for 6years come back within 48 hours,so then i decided to watch and see,unbelievable within the next 48hours i got a call from unknown number so i decided to pick the call the next thing i could hear was my loves voice he was pleading and begging me on the phone that i should forgive him that i should forget all that have happened that he did not know what came over him,he promised not to leave for any reason, that he was really sorry for what he did,i was so surprised because i never believed that this could happen,so that was how i accepted his apology and the next morning he came to my house and still pleading for me to forgive, him i told him that everything is okay that i have forgiven him, that was how we started again and now we are married, i promised to say this testimony in radio station, commenting this testimony is still okay but before this month runs out i promise to say this in radio station and i will,sir thank you very much.World please am begging you people to try and thank this man for me,or if you need his help here is his email address drogududuspellhome@gmail.com. THANK YOU DR

James Rose said...

i want to give thanks to my dr and i will always give thanks to DR OGUDUDU who brought back my love that has left me for 6years within 48hours, i have said about this last week but i promised to always tell people about this every week end so that those that did not read about it last week will read about it this week, i have been looking for how to get this boy back to my life because i love this boy with the whole of my heart, i could not replace him with any body,one day i was watching my television when i saw a lady giving thanks to DR OGUDUDU and telling the world how he helped her i was so shocked i could not believe it because i never taught that there are powers that can bring back lost love, then that was how i decided to contact him too because i do really need my love back,when i contacted him i told him everything and he told me not to worry that my love will surely be back to my arms within 48hours at first i could not believe because i was thinking how could somebody that has gone for 6years come back within 48 hours,so then i decided to watch and see,unbelievable within the next 48hours i got a call from unknown number so i decided to pick the call the next thing i could hear was my loves voice he was pleading and begging me on the phone that i should forgive him that i should forget all that have happened that he did not know what came over him,he promised not to leave for any reason, that he was really sorry for what he did,i was so surprised because i never believed that this could happen,so that was how i accepted his apology and the next morning he came to my house and still pleading for me to forgive, him i told him that everything is okay that i have forgiven him, that was how we started again and now we are married, i promised to say this testimony in radio station, commenting this testimony is still okay but before this month runs out i promise to say this in radio station and i will,sir thank you very much.World please am begging you people to try and thank this man for me,or if you need his help here is his email address drogududuspellhome@gmail.com. THANK YOU DR

James Rose said...

i want to give thanks to my dr and i will always give thanks to DR OGUDUDU who brought back my love that has left me for 6years within 48hours, i have said about this last week but i promised to always tell people about this every week end so that those that did not read about it last week will read about it this week, i have been looking for how to get this boy back to my life because i love this boy with the whole of my heart, i could not replace him with any body,one day i was watching my television when i saw a lady giving thanks to DR OGUDUDU and telling the world how he helped her i was so shocked i could not believe it because i never taught that there are powers that can bring back lost love, then that was how i decided to contact him too because i do really need my love back,when i contacted him i told him everything and he told me not to worry that my love will surely be back to my arms within 48hours at first i could not believe because i was thinking how could somebody that has gone for 6years come back within 48 hours,so then i decided to watch and see,unbelievable within the next 48hours i got a call from unknown number so i decided to pick the call the next thing i could hear was my loves voice he was pleading and begging me on the phone that i should forgive him that i should forget all that have happened that he did not know what came over him,he promised not to leave for any reason, that he was really sorry for what he did,i was so surprised because i never believed that this could happen,so that was how i accepted his apology and the next morning he came to my house and still pleading for me to forgive, him i told him that everything is okay that i have forgiven him, that was how we started again and now we are married, i promised to say this testimony in radio station, commenting this testimony is still okay but before this month runs out i promise to say this in radio station and i will,sir thank you very much.World please am begging you people to try and thank this man for me,or if you need his help here is his email address drogududuspellhome@gmail.com. THANK YOU DR

drsunny omoni said...

THANKS TO GREAT DR Sunny FOR SOLVING MY PROBLEMS HIS EMAIL IS (drsunnydsolution1@gmail.com

my name is Miss Fatima ,i was married to my husband for 5 years we were living happily together for this years and not until he traveled to Australia for a business trip where he met this girl and since then he hate me and the kids and love her only. so when my husband came back from the trip he said he does not want to see me and my kids again so he drove us out of the house and he was now going to Australia to see that other woman. so i and my kids were now so frustrated and i was just staying with my mum and i was not be treating good because my mother got married to another man after my father death so the man she got married to was not treating her well, i and my kids were so confuse and i was searching for a way to get my husband back home because i love and cherish him so much,so one day as i was browsing on my computer i saw a testimony about this spell caster DR Sunny, testimonies shared on the internet by a lady and it impress me so much i also think of give it a try. At first i was scared but when i think of what me and my kids are passing through so i contacted him and he told me to stay calm for just 24 hours that my husband shall come back to me and to my best surprise i received a call from my husband on the second day asking after the kids and i called DR Sunny and he said your problems are solved my child. so this was how i get my family back after a long stress of brake up by an evil lady so with all this help from DR Sunny, i want you all on this forum to join me to say a huge thanks to DR Sunny and i will also advice for any one in such or similar problems or any kind of problems should also contact him his email is )(drsunnydsolution1@gmail.com) he is the solution to all your problems and predicaments in life. once again his email address is (drsunnydsolution1@gmail.com)

HE IS SPECIALIZE IN THE THE FOLLOWING SPELL.

(1) If you want your ex back.

(2) if you always have bad dreams.

(3) If you want to be promoted in your office.

(4) If you want women/men to run after you.

(5) If you want a child.

(6) If you want to be rich.

(7) If you want to tie your husband/wife to be yours forever.

(8) If you need financial assistance.

(9) How you been scammed and you want to recover you lost money.

(10) if you want to stop your divorce.

(11) if you want to divorce your husband.

(12) if you want your wishes to be granted.

(13) Pregnancy spell to conceive baby

(14) Guarantee you win the troubling court cases & divorce no matter how what stage

(15) Stop your marriage or relationship from breaking apart.

(16) if you have any sickness like ( H I V ), (CANCER) or any sickness.

(17) if you need prayers for deliverance for your child or yourself.

once again make sure you contact him if you have any problem he will help you. his email address is (drsunnydsolution1@gmail.com) contact him immediately....call my number on +2348077620669

Unknown said...

friend My name is mercy. I am from Kuwait i never believe in spell caster because i have be scam by 4 different people,i lot hope because my husband left me ,a friend of my from Mexico introduce me to Dr.johnson I Was told his work is free.I Never believed until i got in touch with him then he cast a spell that just helped me to retrieve back my union with my husband and make our relationship very stronger and brought joy and happiness into our marriage,I couldn't believe there is a real prophet out there who does free spells.I only paid in appreciation after the spell had worked.He doesn't charge anybody until the spell has worked.You shouldn't be deceived by all these scammers that are here for money. Dr johnson doesn't charge.You can only choose to pay after the spell has worked.Try him and see what i am saying.These are the few things he does people
*HE BRING BACK LOST LOVERS IN
*REMOTE CONTROL OVER LOVERS..
* IS YOUR HEALER TAKING LONG TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEMS? THIS IS YOUR
CHANCE TO BE HELPED QUICKLY.
*GET RIDE OF ANY WITCHCRAFT, BAD LUCK & CURSES.
* EXPERT IN DISTANCE HEALING
*IS SOME BODY JEALOUS WITH YOUR RELATIONSHIP?
*ARE YOU BEING FORCED INTO A DIVORCE?
*TO WIN HORSES AND GAMBLING.
*HE CAN STOP SOME ONE INTERFERING WITH YOUR RELATIONSHIP.
* DO YOU WANT TO HAVE CHILDREN OF YOUR CHOICE
*DO YOU WANT QUICK MARRIAGE PROPOSAL?
You can get in touch with him through ( udehomeofsolution@gmail.com)

Robert Holland said...

Nice post.
I like the way you start and then conclude your thoughts on how we can save my marriage and also I get methods to our marriage again on track. Thanks for this nice information on save my marriage. I really appreciate your work, keep it up.

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