Saturday, January 28, 2012

The science of nagging

As unpleasant and annoying as it may be, I tend to doubt nagging is actually as toxic to marriages as adultery. But the mere fact that the comparison can be made is indicative of the severity of the problem:
Nagging—the interaction in which one person repeatedly makes a request, the other person repeatedly ignores it and both become increasingly annoyed—is an issue every couple will grapple with at some point. While the word itself can provoke chuckles and eye-rolling, the dynamic can potentially be as dangerous to a marriage as adultery or bad finances....

Personality contributes to the dynamic, Dr. Wetzler says. An extremely organized, obsessive or anxious person may not be able to refrain from giving reminders, especially if the partner is laid back and often does things at the last minute. Other people are naturally resistant—some might say lazy—and could bring out the nagger in anyone.

It is possible for husbands to nag, and wives to resent them for nagging. But women are more likely to nag, experts say, largely because they are conditioned to feel more responsible for managing home and family life. And they tend to be more sensitive to early signs of problems in a relationship. When women ask for something and don't get a response, they are quicker to realize something is wrong. The problem is that by asking repeatedly, they make things worse.
There are three successive steps that one can take to reduce nagging in a relationship. They are not conclusive nor will they work in every relationship, but at least it's a process that can be applied and reduce the oppressive feeling of helplessness that being constantly nagged tends to produce.

The first is to reflect upon the problems, attempt to anticipate the requests and/or demands, and do your best to promptly fulfill them when they aren't successfully anticipated. But note that this is NOT a BETA attempt to please the other individual, it is actually a means of testing them. A friend of mine once tracked his wife's requests, demands, and complaints for an entire month, recording all of them. The next month, he made sure to do every single thing she had requested or considered to be a problem, and he even succeeded in doing many of them before she even asked for them, much less complained about them. He also kept track of any new requests, demands, and complaints.

He was surprised, and a little disappointed, to learn that his proactive efforts didn't reduce the volume of her nagging at all, it merely changed the details concerning what she was nagging him about. But it was a very useful experiment because he learned that he was not the problem, the real problem was her need for control. So, he promptly went back to doing as little as he had before except he was now able to tune her out with a clear conscience. Carte blanche, baby!

On the other hand, if actually doing the things that were causing the other person to nag reduces the amount of their nagging, then is is obviously your failure to get things done that is the problem. In this case, apply the second step and put yourself on some sort of schedule. For example, I used to be very unreliable about getting the car washed on a regular basis, but now I simply do it on Saturdays whether it appears to really need it or not. If the weather is bad, I do it on the first day after Saturday that the roads are dry. Program your habits correctly and the amount of justifiable nagging will tend to naturally decline.

But does this mean that one has to suffer constant nagging just because the other individual is a control freak? Of course not, hence the third step. It is based on the observation that most control freaks place far more pressure on others to do things for them than they are willing to do for others. So, again keep track of the various requests, demands, and complaints, but instead of doing anything about them right away, start responding with requests, demands, and complaints of your own on a one for one basis. Every time she nags about X, you nag about Y.

This will likely trigger a good deal of initial resentment - the control freak REALLY does not like doing things upon request because she wrongly believes it amounts to subservience - especially because it is perfectly reasonable. If you are expected to do X for them, why would they not do Y for you? And yet, you can expect all sorts of spurious and stupid excuses as to why you should be at their beck and call but they shouldn't have to do anything for you. Just ignore the rationalizations, tick to your guns, and eventually the aversion therapy will begin to take effect. Even if the nagger doesn't consciously realize what you're doing, the idea that nagging you inevitably means she'll get stuck doing something herself will soon begin to reduce the amount she is willing to do.

And, of course, every time she refuses to do something, you must do precisely the same. If she won't pick up something at the store, then you don't pick up something on the way home from work. I suspect it's best not to make it a direct confrontation, since any argument is only going to lead to an impasse at best, so just produce the same sort of ridiculous excuses that she uses.

However, the single most important thing that everyone should keep in mind is that if you care a great deal about something a) getting done, b) getting done in a particular way, and c) getting done to a specific standard, then you should do it yourself!

45 comments:

Stingray said...

I remember the nagging conversation from the first few months of marriage:

Him: You need to quite nagging. I'll get to it.
Me: I would stop nagging if you just get it done.
Him: Cold, steely stare.
Me: Ok.

So, I learned to do a lot of stuff for myself. If I want it done, then if I am capable then why shouldn't I? My husband works long, hard, tedious hours and when he was home on the weekends he wanted some time to do some stuff for himself. Completely understandable. So. . . I do it myself. When I can't or don't know how (ex. making raised garden beds) I tell him my idea and when I need it done well ahead of time. If it looks like he might have forgotten I ask, once. 90% of the time this works and for the 10% he honestly does forget, he makes up for it and gets it done. I've actually discovered some things that I really enjoy doing this way and we get to spend more time together on the weekends because I got more *man* stuff done during the week.

Encourager said...

When I got married I determined to NOT nag my husband. I would ask him to do something once and if he didn't do it, I would do it myself. To be honest, I thought that this would "heap coals on his head." Unfortunately it did not. I became very resentful that 1) he didn't appreciate me for not nagging, 2) he didn't feel appropriately bad that I was having to do the things I had asked him to do and 3) he interpreted my one request to be nagging. Sometimes you can't win.

Vox said...

To be honest, I thought that this would "heap coals on his head."

What was the ratio of your requests to his? It's simply not going to bother someone if they're not doing for you what you're not doing for them. I'm not excusing your husband here, I'm simply pointing out that those who are independent and don't make requests of others don't tend to be terribly bothered by not doing things for others.

But in no case can a single request for something be considered nagging. That's absurd.

Stickwick said...

I'll add my $0.02 to the women's perspective.

My tendency to nag is anxiety-related -- chaos and disorder FREAK ME OUT. However, a mitigating factor: if there's one thing I find even more intolerable than disorder, it's discord between me and my husband.

My nagging stemmed from my anxious belief that my husband would forget I wanted something if I didn't constantly remind him. He remembered all right, but his motivation to fulfill my request was inversely proportional to the volume of nagging.

I realized the folly of my ways serendipitously. I made a request for something, and then became so busy for the next few days that I forgot to put my husband on the nagging installment plan. To my astonishment, he did what I requested, and all was well in the world.

So now I know, if I ask him ONCE he will get to it most of the time. Every now and then I have to follow up with a gentle reminder. The rest of the time, unless it's something important, I just let it go. Also, making the request in a gentle and sweet manner, as opposed to the sturm-and-drang method, greatly increases the probability that the request will be fulfilled.

R. Bradley Andrews said...

Interesting topic to think about. I tend to be the "last minute" individual and my attention span is so short at times I really do forget things. Though my wife has also been influenced by feminist ideas more than she realized and I think avoiding subservience is an innate challenge she regularly faces.

My open question, partly to myself, is how much that last-minute approach and forgetfulness is a solvable problem? Is it just something I have learned over time and can therefore unlearn or is it an innate trait that will be almost impossible to change?

Changing that would certainly remove a lot of the need for reminders.

Encourager said...

"What was the ratio of your requests to his? "

It is true that he is a very low-maintenance man.

Trust said...

@Encourager said... I became very resentful that 1) he didn't appreciate me for not nagging
____________

Men don't appreciate women for not nagging in the same manner that women don't appreciate men for not abusing them, or in the same way people don't appreciate their neighbors for not stealing from them.

We appreciate when people do something good for us, and resent when people do something bad to us. We are pretty neutral when they do neither.

Anonymous said...

What is the cure for actual laziness? I'm pretty sure I'm lazy and that's why my wife nags me when she does.

Is this one of those things where I just have to buckle down and do it? Cause I don't like those. They're hard.

Josiah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Aeoli Pera said...

tldr:

You can always identify the head of the household by watching who rewards and punishes whom (nagging, etc.).



Nagging is very simple in the abstract.

From the psychological perspective, it's a mild form of punishment. If it's a reasonable request, then it's not nagging.

Hierarchy is the only other factor worth considering. It is inappropriate for a servant to reward or punish his master's behavior. We call this "disrespectful" because the servant is not respecting the master's position. Likewise between a captain and first officer (obvious hat tip to Athol Kay). A captain who consistently tolerates disrespect is captain in name only.

Josiah said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Badger said...

"Unfortunately it did not. I became very resentful that 1) he didn't appreciate me for not nagging,"

This recalls Chris Rock's routine that certain people "want credit for something they're just supposed to do." I realize nagging is common and annoying, but you're not supposed to nag your partner.

If we start giving out medals for not nagging I think we're defining deviancy down.

Badger said...

Vox,

"However, the single most important thing that everyone should keep in mind is that if you care a great deal about something a) getting done, b) getting done in a particular way, and c) getting done to a specific standard, then you should do it yourself!"

I'm surprised the article never thought to mention this. Maybe the first man cited just didn't give a shit about the floor tile colors, and the woman should have just chosen the tiles herself, no lunchtime notes necessary.

But again, then she'd complain "but I WANT you to care about the tiles!" which shifts the judgment from your actions to your being and enhances the toxic cycle. My mom has done this innumerable times to everybody in the family.

Vox said...

But again, then she'd complain "but I WANT you to care about the tiles!" which shifts the judgment from your actions to your being and enhances the toxic cycle. My mom has done this innumerable times to everybody in the family.

To which the only adequate response is "And I want you to care about the NFL standings. How likely is that to happen any time soon."

Anonymous said...

I tend to respond to requests from female relatives, (Mom), that I care about some thing with long dissertations on some topic currently of interest to me. Such as, how the banking system really works or the history of public schools in America since 1850.

When my audience starts to moan and grimace as if they ate something not to their liking I know my point has been made.

Athor Pel

Anonymous said...

"Encourager at January 28, 2012 9:09 AM said...

When I got married I determined to NOT nag my husband. I would ask him to do something once and if he didn't do it, I would do it myself. To be honest, I thought that this would "heap coals on his head." Unfortunately it did not. I became very resentful that 1) he didn't appreciate me for not nagging, 2) he didn't feel appropriately bad that I was having to do the things I had asked him to do and 3) he interpreted my one request to be nagging. Sometimes you can't win."



Do you realize how entitled you sound? It's funny, really funny. As in, I'm laughing out loud right now funny.

I bolded the really funny bit.

Athor Pel

Yohami said...

"But in no case can a single request for something be considered nagging. That's absurd."

It can be nagging, depending on the words and tone.

Hermit said...

My wife is actually really good about not nagging. On the occasions she does have a request that's over and beyond 5-10 minute task, they're often things that I can't or I'm not in the mood to complete right away. I ask her to make a list of things she wants me to get done, and I'll do them in my own time, if I decide I want to. She rarely creates lists just for me, she'll create a big one off all the projects she wants done, and pick and choose ones more suited for me. I generally accomplish a lot more tasks with self-initiated projects than ones she initiates. It's a good system.

Aeoli Pera said...

Athor,

I suspect they aren't getting the point, and are only leaving out of impatience*. Which isn't really a bad outcome, as distance makes the heart grow fonder. Both outcomes would look nearly identical in practice.

Aeoli Pera said...

*

"Getting the point" requires that they'd 1) understand it, 2) realize it in a moment of reflection, and most importantly, 3) be willing to learn it from you.

Women only allow themselves to learn from authority.

Aeoli Pera said...

(It appears that I have verbal diarrhea today.)

I'll back up the statement "women only allow themselves to learn from authority" with some theory, as it may not be obvious.

Assuming women have a preference for group cohesion, they will have a vested interest in maintaining the narrative created by authority figures. This is a strong assumption within many worldviews.

A leader's perceived ability to lead factors strongly into his chances for success. This is why it is a breach of the social contract to challenge authority (as if you had a better plan for the community!).

Therefore, women prefer to believe an "official" story. This preference manifests when they assign much lower weight to the argument than to the speaker. It also explains their preferred logical fallacies.

I love it when a theory comes together :-).

Anonymous said...

I remember in a marriage class I was in at church, there was a segment where the woman was complaining about the things her husband didn't do and she felt should do. We weren't talking about his standard 50 hours a week to support his family, lawn care, vehicle maintenance, and spending time with his family, all of which probably took 6 full 11-12 hour days as it was.

No, she was complaining that he wasn't getting the garden she wanted ready yet, or getting a fence or deck built yet (because it is cheaper than hiring it), or getting home renovations done, etc.

The pastor (on the seminar video, not in the physical class) told her that anything he did for her was a gift from him to her, and that her seeing gifts as expectations were keeping her from appreciating the gifts he gave and leading her to resent the gifts he didn't give.

He was right. Of course, the wives in the class disagreed and the group leader gave up and moved on.

Mr Green Man said...

@Anonymous 1/29/12 7:25 am

How many of those women in your church groups were actual God-fearing Christians who accepted their own degraded state, and how many are church wives, fertility worshippers, cult-of-motherhood socialites?

What you describes sure sounds to me like you've got a group of women in that church who don't recognize the central tenet of Christianity that they're also fallen creatures, full heirs in the same punishment as every fallen man, and instead have fallen into either the conceit that physical beauty makes them holy (if they're young) or child birthing makes them holy (if they're old).

SarahsDaughter said...

I remember having in mind the things my husband "should" do around our home. That all changed rather quickly when he joined the Army. There is nothing around our home that I can't do or hire someone to do. From mechanics to the Geek squad for our computer maintenance (even flowers, if I want them, I buy them, it's very simple). Now, when he's home, if he chooses to do something, great. If not, I take care of it.

Like Stingray said, I enjoy getting everything accomplished throughout the week so that there is virtually nothing to do over the weekend.

It is difficult to try and get some other military spouses to understand this though. Some store up the chore list, dump it on him, and start the nagging the minute he arrives home from deployment. Stupid women.

Ghost said...

My solution to nagging seems to be to point out that she's nagging. For example, she wanted a new door installed between the garage and the house. She nagged at me for two weeks to get it done. I said, "you've got two choices: quit nagging me and let me get to it when I can, or keep nagging me and watch me ignore it." I got it done after one full day of peace.

If there are little tedious chores that she nags you to do, and that you can do, own those chores. For me, it was dishes. That's my thing now, and if she goes near the dishwasher, I nag her about how she's doing it wrong (seriously, I can Tetris in 3 times as many dishes as she can). Even though I could really give a shit about how the dishes get stacked, it's enough of an example to make my point: you work better when someone isn't harping at you. I'm not saying that you should "want to do the dishes," which women seem to think is even possible. Still treat it like the bullshit chore you would rather not do, but dammit, it needs to be done right, so I'll do it myself. And if she nags you to do the chore that you've adopted, take a little longer to get it done.

And encourager, you don't get brownie points for being a decent human being. You wanted appreciation for stifling an urge you had to nag him into the ground. How many times did you say, "honey, I can't tell you how much I appreciate you not sticking your penis in every woman you meet. I appreciate that you even try really hard not to look at other women when we're out together. I also really appreciate how you never choke me out when I'm annoying the piss out of you..." you get my point? Stifling your urge to nag is a meritous achievement for you, just as not reaching out and grabbing every tit that walks by is hard work for him. But both attributes make you decent human beings. Don't expect gratitude for normalcy.

Encourager said...

Well, it would really look like I was justifying myself if I came in here now and said that I DO say things to him like, "I really appreciate your being faithful," and "I am so thankful that I can count on your always working hard at your job." so... I won't.

The LP 999/Linda said...

For some nagging reflects poor organizational skills.

If I were married, I like to be the go-fer getting whatever he (and family)needed. Nagging is something I'm unsure on, I guess I haven't grown into a life where nagging demands are.

I am unconvinced that nagging is beneficial to any relationships. N'ing, has a the vibe overly being assertive. II think asking others for help and doing task as a team could be helpful.

Eh, I could wrong and I have not finished reading the whole thread.

The LP 999/Linda said...

Nagging also reflects being human but its not the best way to communicate. If were married I'd do what my spouse needed of me to make this life easier. After all, love seeks to be kind and helpful. Or so I hope.

Then again, as a single person what could I possibly know?

SarahsDaughter said...

Encourager:
What I found interesting of what you first wrote are these statements:
"I thought that this would 'heap coals on his head.'" and
"I became very resentful that..."

Why did you determine to heap coals on his head? Your "not nagging" came across as a shit test. Your subsequent feelings of resentment are yet another unfounded shit test. Even your: "sometimes you can't win" statement is odd. What are you trying to win? Like Yohami said, even your one request might be coming across as condescension and demeaning (An "I shouldn't even have to ask" tone) - thus a "nag."

For the men around here, after those confessions, your justification will fall on deaf ears. You may want to check your heart and expectations of marriage. It's not a competition, it's a dance.

LP, don't underestimate your wisdom because you're single. Love does seek to be kind and helpful - great truth!

Trust said...

@SarahsDaughter said... Some store up the chore list, dump it on him, and start the nagging the minute he arrives home from deployment. Stupid women.
_____________

That is very wise of you. Growing increasingly uncommon unfortunately, as I know far to may wives who fold laundry and dust during Days of our Lives, then suddenly think they have two points (laundry + dusting) over their husband's one point (work) during the 10 hours he is gone.

SarahsDaughter said...

Thank you Trust. Every SAHM should have their husbands list every detail of what they do throughout the day. Too often we are tempted to just call it "the job" and not consider all of the minutia, every duty, the mental stress, physical work, whatever it might be. Even the rest that he needs when he comes home so that he can be prepared to go out and do it the next day. (And in my example, deployed men do this 24/7 for months at a time, I am horribly lacking in "points" compared to him.) Keeping track of "points" is ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

"Every SAHM should have their husbands list every detail of what they do throughout the day."

No. No they shouldn't. A husband should not be made to justify himself to satisfy his wife's hamster, and any husband who does has just failed a shit test.

Trust said...

@SarahsDaughter said...
Thank you Trust. Every SAHM should have their husbands list every detail of what they do throughout the day. Too often we are tempted to just call it "the job" and not consider all of the minutia, every duty, the mental stress, physical work, whatever it might be. Even the rest that he needs when he comes home so that he can be prepared to go out and do it the next day. (And in my example, deployed men do this 24/7 for months at a time, I am horribly lacking in "points" compared to him.) Keeping track of "points" is ridiculous.
_____________

You're welcome.

I do agree with Anon at 5:25pm that a husband shouldn't have to list every detail, but I also agree with you that calling it "the job" and score it as one thing is destructive.

Your point about energy is very good, sense most women seem to desire their husbands to be more ambitions and advance their careers and incomes. To do so requires energy and long hours, which in turn requires rest at home.

SarahsDaughter said...

Anon, you're right. I should have worded that different. SAHM's should recognize that "the job" does not equal one point and should consider all of the minutia, every duty, the mental stress, physical work, and whatever else might be required of the job long before attempting to keep track of "points." It was an appeal to women to think about it. Not a suggestion to make a husband justify himself.

Ian Ironwood said...

Here's how I stopped nagging in my marriage, early on.

Mrs. Ironwood is a control freak, but usually only about work-stuff. Since being a control freak is part of what makes her really good at her job, I'm not going to mess with it. And she is, generally, pretty good about not nagging me, but then I'm pretty good about taking care of business.

But one reason we've evolved this, is that for the first year of our marriage (thanks to some advice from an older, wiser head) every time she would start to nag, I'd get a slack-jawed stare and start taking off my clothes. The first few times this happened, she was confused, until she finally asked WTF?

I told her that I felt sexually aroused by nagging, and couldn't stop myself when she did it.

She quit nagging.

IndyGuy77 said...

Ian... so is that saying she doesn't like the sex? /s

Anonymous said...

Living with a nagging person is nothing but hell on earth. Some people will rush to do things ahead, others will be slow to do things.
My wife wanted to do everything earlier, but I am a behind to do things, but I am the only person doing things. She never stops reminding me a dozen times even the silly things or buying something from the grocery stores, which creates greater strain and strains. These nagging people are naturally very negative minded in nature and they don't have any gift in making other people happy by telling even a joke, but creating pain to other
people. The Bible says, judge not others. It is simply the habit of some people, finding fault with others and ruthlessly criticize other people, nothing good they will see in other people but only faults, never appreciate or compliment others.

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i just want to share my experience and testimony here.. i was married for 6 years to my husband and all of a sudden, another woman came into the picture.. he started hailing me and he was abusive. but i still loved him with all my heart and wanted him at all cost…then he filed for divorce. my whole life was turning apart and i didn’t know what to do .he moved out of the house and abandoned the kids.. so someone told me about trying spiritual means to get my husband back and introduced me to a spell caster…so i decided to try it reluctantly. although i didn’t believe in all those things… then when he consulted his gods and cast a return and love spell, after 3days, my husband came back and was pleading. he had realized his mistakes. I just couldn’t believe it. .anyways we are back together now and we are happy. in case anyone needs this man, his email address is eromosalspiritualtemple@gmail.com or thought hid website http://eromosalspiritualtemple.webs.com or call him with +2348161850195

Ernesto Wyett said...

I am so filled with joy because of what Doctor Azua Atete did for me with his spell. I have never seen a Doctor so kind to restore marriage with his spell. My wife and i broke up years ago because we were always fighting,she left with our 2 kids without tell me or anyone close to me where she was going, i searched every where looking for her but i couldn't find her. One day my friend came to my office and told me about Doctor Azua Atete's powerful spell so i immediately contacted him for help and he told me that my wife will come back to me with our 2 kids begging me on her knees for forgiveness within 12 to 16 hours after he has finish the preparation of the spell. I want to tell the World that Doctor Azua Atete is a God on Earth because everything happened just as he said. My wife is back and we are both living happily with our kids. Here is my number +1512-430-1539 YOU CAN CALL ME TO CONFIRM. Do you need help of any kind than contact Doctor Azua Atete today via email: doctorazuaatetespelltemple@outlook.com or via website: http://drzazazworldofpowerfulspellwebscom.webs.com or Whats App or call him: +2348068784784

amanda paul said...

Greetings to every one that is reading this testimony. I have been rejected by my husband after three(3) years of marriage just because another woman had a spell on him and he left me and the kid to suffer. one day when i was reading through the web, i saw a post on how this spell caster on this address dr.savior have help a woman to get back her husband and i gave him a reply to his address and he told me that a woman had a spell on my husband and he told me that he will help me and after 2 days that i will have my husband back. i believed him and today i am glad to let you all know that this spell caster have the power to bring lovers back. because i am now happy with my husband. Thanks you Dr.savior His email: dr.savior02@gmail.com you can call his phone +2348028017156

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