Friday, January 20, 2012

Alpha Mail: why Daddy ends up with the kids

Ghosts wonders how to tell his kids that their mother didn't care about them enough to want to retain her court-granted custody of them:
Virtually every divorced man I know has custody of his children (myself included). The story is the same for all of us: after the divorce and our "blind justice" automatically hands our children off to these women. They then use the children like pawns, with-holding visitation, threatening to go for sole custody, not to mention the anal raping we receive from the lovely child support services; but then, something happens, and we become the primary custodial parent.

Afterwards, the mothers just... Give up. They (in all the examples I've personally seen) never visit, never call, and quite rapidly sign over their parental rights. Statistically speaking, there's a higher percentage of women who are dead-beat moms than there are dead-beat dads.

You seem a hell of a lot smarter than me, so I was hoping maybe you could help me understand it, possibly in a way I can explain to my boys when they're older. They ask me why their mom doesn't love them anymore, and "because she's a cunt" isn't an acceptable answer for 7 & 9 year olds...
It's an interesting question, since I have also witnessed this process at work in the lives of the only divorced couple that I know. To be honest, it's not only not an acceptable answer for children, it's not accurate either. The process you're seeing at work here is a natural combination of female solipsism with the harsh reality of life as a single parent. One of the key changes in social behavior is that Generation X has observed the copious blunders of the Baby Boomers and while X women aren't significantly less narcissistic, self-centered, or myopic than their predecessors, they are sufficiently observant to have stopped buying into the "you can have it all" theme or to believe that single motherhood is a reasonable practical alternative to a functional two-parent family. So, they tend to be somewhat less invested in their post-divorce identity as a mother or in keeping primary custody of their children.

Being a parent is hard, thankless, and in the short term, largely unrewarding work. Yes, it's delightful when a child, unprompted, gives you a hug or says something sweet, but the job never ends and the responsibility is always there hanging over the parent's head. So, it should come as no surprise when a woman who is shallow and self-serving rapidly discovers:
  1. She now has to do everything that her ex-husband of whom she previously claimed "did nothing" used to do. It's amazing how fast those previously "nothing" tasks of picking up the kids from their various activities and mowing the lawn suddenly become major sacrifices meriting beatification once a woman gets divorced.
  2. All the men she thought would be lining up to date her once she was "free" aren't actually interested in her. As it turns out, most minor flirtations are not indicative of a man's willingness to subject himself to a legal raping courtesy of a woman who has already demonstrated her willingness to call in the judicial rapists.
  3. Her children severely limit her opportunity to spend time with those men she meets who actually are interested in her. Somehow, this appears to surprise newly divorced women.
  4. The men who are interested in her have no interest in the package deal and show no indications ever offering her any assistance with her increased burden of responsibilities.
  5. The whole custody thing suddenly looks a lot less desirable post-divorce.
Now, even divorcing woman who understand this will still be inclined to claim custody because the children are her primary means of extracting income from her ex-husband and because it is socially expected of her. Even if she knows perfectly well that she intends to pawn them off on everyone around her as much as possible, she won't want to be criticized for being "a bad mother" even if she has the maternal instincts of a cuckoo. But once she has custody and the income transfer is established, her priorities reverse as her children now become a liability to her rather than a valuable asset. Furthermore, her desire to lash out and harm her ex-husband by denying him his children is gradually overcome by her desire to throw herself fully into her new single life, so she becomes more and more dependent upon his ability to permit her to live it by taking care of the kids.

It is very important to understand this process for fathers who are in the process of facing a divorce. They must always keep in mind there is a very good chance that regardless of the legal posture her lawyers are telling her to take at the moment, she is eventually going to want to relinquish custody to him if he plays his cards right. So, if you want your kids, the correct play is not to strike a grand paternal pose and fight to the bitter and losing end in the courts, but rather, to accede to all of her custody demands while constantly encouraging her to go out and let her freak flag fly. This may be hard, especially because it will likely involve exposing your children to the parade of losers who are willing to pump-and-dump a thirty-something or forty-something divorcee in the short term, but it is a father's best shot of eventually gaining full custody. And, if you've played your hand correctly, they'll always be with you when she's spending a special evening with Donny from work or LaDarrell from the gym anyhow.

The key is to be patient and arrange with your family and friends to always be available to watch the children at a moment's notice. And since women's moods fluctuate constantly, always have a prepared document on hand for her to sign custody over to you. It's a long game, but it only takes one moment of exhaustion, depression, and weakness, and you'll have your kids back. Even then, be as conciliatory and let her come see them as much as she wants, as Ghost knows, she'll probably drift away anyhow since out of sight is generally out of the female mind.

But to return to the actual question, the correct answer for your children is that while she loves them, she simply doesn't love them as much as she loves herself. This has the benefit of being completely true, it is something that they already recognize or they would not be asking the question, and can serve as a useful springboard for addressing a whole host of other, tangentially-related issues, such as the reason for your marital breakup, the female tendency towards solipsism, the importance of the Golden Rule, and so forth. Addressing the matter openly and honestly will also tend to have the effect of drawing you closer together, after all, she didn't just cast them aside, she also did the same to you.

However, it's also important to resist any urge to poison them against her. Let her do that to herself; as you've probably already discovered, she'll do a far more effective job of that than you ever could. When asked about her, keep your answers truthful, unemotional, and positive to the extent that is possible. Most children of divorce eventually figure out who is the responsible party, regardless of the extent of the parental propaganda to which they are subjected.

44 comments:

Anonymous said...

My own mother, a divorcee, has done some pretty awful things as well, and I've similarly concluded that she loves herself much more than me... if she even loves me at all.

So I have a huge dilemma here. On the one hand, I feel extraordinary contempt for her actions, but on the other, she did give birth to me and (somewhat, it was not all her) take care of me when I was a child. How am I supposed to behave towards her?

When I was younger (I'm in my late teens now), while I was more than a little aware that an objective observer of her actions would probably conclude that she is a terrible, contemptible person, I simply irrationally suppressed these beliefs and continued seeing her in the best light possible. As I a kid, I simply grew too attached to her to see her any differently.

Vox said...

How am I supposed to behave towards her?

I recommend maintaining a polite and civil distance. She is still your mother and she still merits a basic amount of respect for that. If you happen to find her behavior contemptible, then keep your distance from her and keep your mouth shut except for the occasional exchange of necessary pleasantries.

The Bible commands one to honor one's parents, not to smother them with unwanted attention.

indyguy77@work said...

Just because we love someone doesn't make them a good person. Just because we forgive them their weaknesses and trespasses doesn't mean we close our eyes.

And forgiveness is just as important to ourselves, maybe even moreso, then the recipient.

You have to let that stuff go.

Eric Mueller said...

Interesting points, Vox.

That brings up something that occurred to me the other day. I won't explain what caused me to think about this, but I can't say I've EVER heard a divorced woman take any responsibility for the divorce. Even those more conciliatory to their ex-husbands still hint that things would have held together if not for some fault or other of her ex.

I've never heard a divorced woman some anything to the effect of "Well, I was just a cold hearted, ungrateful bitch. I should have treated my husband a little better." I've never heard it. Has anyone else?

Even in Christian churches, when they let women get up and give a testimony, and that testimony involves a divorce, it always seems to come back to something the ex-husband did or didn't do.

I don't think I'm sidetracking from the point of your post. I believe this goes to female solipsism.

indyguy77@work said...

Eric, I've never heard that before either. Interesting, isn't it?

But consider: it's hard enough to get them to accept blame enough to admit that their marriages were a bad idea from the get-go and THEY KNEW IT.



Though the two most recent divorces among folks I know SEEM to involve men ditching their wives for no real given reason.

Now, they could have been lied to by their men. Or they're lying to themselves. Or they're really, really good liars. But they both sure seem truly bewildered as to any reason other than their men said they didn't want to be married anymore.

I sure wouldn't bet $1 either is telling me everything, though.

TLM said...

This is the best answer/advice you've ever given on either blog.

Eric Mueller said...

Indyguy, great point.

As I slowly crawl out from under my betaness (what do you mean, making my wife happy in the short term on every issue won't actually make her happy?) I've wondered about whether if we actually split, would she ever regret her contributions to the failure of our relationship? That was when it hit me I've never heard a divorced woman admit that.

Anonymous said...

Wow. It's a revelation to realize this is not only my experience, let alone to hear it's actually common. To be fair to her, my ex lasted almost 11 years with my three (and nearly $300,000 in combined support payments) before my eldest moved out on her, giving her a socially-acceptable excuse to cede the remaining two to dad (she couldn't afford the townhouse without the child support payment for him).

I've now had the younger two for a year and a half (and am happy as a clam with that arrangement). But what has baffled me is my ex's complete disinterest in seeing her children once I had custody. She has seen my daughter twice in the first year and my youngest son five or six times. In one instance she's come to our home to see them; in all others they've had to find their own way on public transit to her boyfriend's place (where she quickly moved once the kids were gone). This is compared to the ten-plus years I drove 80km twice a day three to four times a week to be with them as they were growing up. I'm not looking for applause on that either: spending every minute I could with them was rarely about legal obligations or Christian duty and least of all about public appearances -- most of the time it was as necessary to me as breathing. I could never have conceived of losing interest in my children so quickly and completely. I was stunned to see my ex's behaviour once she had turned the page, and thought there was something radically wrong with her.

But your description is scarily on the nose: "... while she loves them, she simply doesn't love them as much as she loves herself". I couldn't put it better.

Your advice is spot-on in my experience: don't fight (I got out of the marriage for just over $3,000 in legal fees by not contesting anything small or stupid), let her have anything she wants (I gave up the house and all the furniture) and be available all the time for your kids (I had a paper agreement giving me shared custody less than 40% of the time in order to max out the child support, but within a year she began to ask me to take the kids an extra night or two almost every week as her social life got increasingly busy). Six or seven years in, I calculated I had enough to go back to court and get the terms of the agreement changed or get custody myself, but had to weigh that against the discomfort my kids could experience being involved in the legal process (they were the only ones who could substantiate the conditions under which they were living). I opted not to disrupt things and was glad I didn't. By the time I got custody, our paper agreement bore almost no resemblance to what was actually occurring in our daily lives.

Your point about social pressure being a woman's primary concern also rings true. We had a verbal agreement for me to get the kids much earlier on, but intense pressure from my ex's mother made her realize that this would 'look bad', and she backed out.

Vox, your analysis explains perfectly many things I've thought but not articulated before. Thanks.

rgoltn said...

As a MWM and LTR, my experience with divorce is distinct; I have seen a set of three different outcomes for 99% of them. In my world, I see these situations. However, they are not the majority. For the record, I am 45, successful businessman and subscribe to the MMSL strategy and approach to marriage; Thanks Athol.

At my age, you see 6+ divorces a year. Here is what I see...

1. Daddy Gets Them - Your posting, from my experience, is approx. 20%. I see women who get bored with beta husbands and have affairs. Then, they use the courts to get as much money as they can before partying hard with their girlfriends, boyfriends and continually asking for more money from their ex, regardless of how much she got at settlement. I have a buddy whose ex-wife continually flaunts her “hook-ups” in front of him and their high school-aged kids. Usually, the ex stays calm, takes notes, documents behavior and comes out of nowhere with a "left hook" and gets the kids. No drama; facts tell the story. My buddy is in this process.

2. Mommy Gets Them - This is the majority of what I see; 50%. Divorce ends marriage. No oxytocin driven boredom fueling dopamine filled affairs. Kids, work, TV, taking each other for granted and a lack of desire to take ownership over their lives leaves them looking at each other and wondering what the fuck happened. I see this all the time. I have buddies who still have no idea why they got divorced. It just happened. They still love their wives too. However, they LOVE getting laid more now! They are in their late 40’s and juggling multiple girls from 25 to 45. They are having a blast. On the other hand, their wives have not changed; no hookups, little dating and no sense of improving themselves. They hang with their girlfriends and their kids. There is no question that while MILFs a recent cultural phenomenon, the fact is that they are a small few when they reach 40.

3. Mommy Gets Them - This is the final balance, 30%. This is where, quite honestly, men I see lose it. They are juveniles or entitled betas and think they can act like a jerk and/or have their wife bring home the money and they can be the “other kid.” You may disagree, but I see lots of men who are either controlling assholes and deserve to have their wives leave them or they are such pussies that their Alpha wives grow bored and tired of them. The manosphere is loaded with blogs saying that men do not want to be married and would rather party and play. Hell, why not! The economics are such that there are more women than men. There is no incentive to marry and the women compete. Still, many women I know who are divorced left their husbands because they wanted a man, not another kid. These guys actually seek support from their wives! Unbelievable. They have no passions, no DHV at all. Just want to mess around all day and expect their ex-wives to pay for their lifestyle. Not for me. No thanks.

Ghost said...

Thank you, Vox. This really does help. I did the "let her dig her own grave" thing from the beginning with my kids. As much as it hurt them to be let down by her "I'll come visit soon" promises that never came into fruition, I wasn't going to put them through what she put them through, and actively try to keep them apart.

And still, the Pursuit Of Happyness is the only "single father/selfish mother" movie out there. Every other broken home movie is drunk/deadbeat dad making life miserable for struggling mother who is just trying to provide a better life for her kids... Anyway, thank you again. I hadn't actually answered with "because she's a cunt," but it's always just screaming in my brain whenever they ask about her. But now I have something positive to say that situation.


Eric,
If you were to ask my ex why we got divorced, she would say, "he couldn't handle my depression, so he found someone else." Which is a really weird way of saying "I smashed his guitar, tore up his book (not an on the shelf book; one I was writing), and threw boiling water in his face."

Anytime a woman says "I don't know why" or "well he did this and never that" as to why the divorce, I always say, "ah, got it. You'd rather not say."

Giraffe said...

One of the prominent couples in our church, the wife up and flung the kids at her husband and took off after another man. The other man married someone else.

Still, many women I know who are divorced left their husbands because they wanted a man, not another kid. These guys actually seek support from their wives! Unbelievable. They have no passions, no DHV at all.

That's kinda my ex brother in law. He wanted the kids so he wouldn't have to pay support. Since he didn't get them, he hasn't even visited them, and has paid $20 in child support in two years. Meanwhile he's trying to break her financially with his free lawyer and every once in a while she gets a nail through the sidewall of her tire.

Brian said...

"These guys actually seek support from their wives! Unbelievable"

Why is it so horrible for a man to get support from the wife if she makes more. Women are entitled to maintain the lifestyle to which they became accustomed, but men aren't?

Giraffe said...

Why is it so horrible for a man to get support from the wife if she makes more. Women are entitled to maintain the lifestyle to which they became accustomed, but men aren't?

The correct answer is neither are entitled. But I am fine with women paying alimony, it's only fair. But that doesn't mean we can't despise a true deadbeat when we see one.

Ryan said...

Great post, although I would have thought the most common outcome of divorce is...

1. Women gets custody plus generous child support.

2. A series of live in boyfriends occupy the next dozen years.

3. The boys are raised to be disrepectful delinquents, who blame their father.

4. The girls are raised to be disrespectful sluts, having a couple of abortions and several cases of STD's.

5. Eventually, when kids are absolutely unmanageable, wife dumps them on father, who is by then remarried.

6. Kids raise hell with Dad's new life.

7. Kids get married and repeat parent's mistakes.

8. Women remain bitter and hateful.

9. Men become alcoholics.

John said...

@Ghost, et al.

If anyone knows where I can find the referenced statistics on the percentage of deadbeat moms exceeding that of deadbeat dads, I'd appreciate a link.

Eric Mueller said...

@Ghost, great point.

I haven't seen Pursuit of Happiness. But the theme of deadbeat dad/virtuous struggling single mother is apparent in society.

For those of us who attend church (and I've switched to meeting with a small group rather than dealing with "worship service"), Mother's Day/Father's Day is similar. On Mother's Day, the sermon is about Mary or Samuel's mother and talks about how we need to honor the poor, struggling single moms who work so hard to raise children. Then Father's Day comes, and if you're lucky they'll just ignore it and preach another contrived, cliched sermon about life in 21st century evangelical American Churchianity. If you're not lucky, it's going to be about deadbeat dads, and how we don't measure up, and how we need to get our act together. This is preached to the men sitting in the congregation who work to support their wives and children.

I started skipping church on Father's Day. I got tired of hearing it.

Anonymous said...

Usually I'm a fan of the breakdowns here but as a man who grew up w/divorced parents this seems way off the mark. You don't take into account the fact that the a lot of divorces are caused by Dad's infidelity and philandering, and Mom then moves to divorce so she can cash out on the alpha and find a better beta Dad for the kids. Women who have kids, in their 30s, aren't looking to solipsistically live it up and rediscover their SMPV. You overlook biological imperative #1 for a woman, to take care of her kids after she has them. Her own self-interest is less important than her kids self-interest after her value has dropped off to a certain point....leading me to believe...that this post in particular is bogus. Looks like a legit case of NAWALT, this wife being a huge bitch.

Anonymous said...

Since none of you have ever heard it, I'll say it. I wasn't a very good wife when we started out. I'm still not great, but eventually I read Love and Respect, and started changing my habits. In spite of, or because of my efforts, he left.

It's been five years and I refuse to file for divorce, though I wouldn't fight it if he initiated. I avoid talking about him except to people who are part of the potential solution. And everybody I know who has marital problems, I tell them *no breakup* is entirely caused by one partner.

Unfortunately, you're right about "out of sight, out of mind". I visit my stepdaughter every chance I get, but it's a struggle to keep her a top priority in the long between times. I'm the only parent-figure she has who is stable, sacrificing, and consistent, and she will know Christ or I will die praying.

Orville said...

Spot on for having a custody agreement in the back pocket for that weak moment. I have used that same tactic successfully with bad employees (usually women) who threaten to quit because they are undergoing the disciplinary process. Since they resigned voluntarily in writing, I have little to no legal exposure.

rycamor said...

Anonymous, laudable in that you recognized your problem and moved to fix it. However, I still think the tendency is to attribute the man with fault for a divorce, without looking at how the woman might be responsible.

Case in point: how many failed marriages do you see where *everyone* in the immediate family/friends circle saw it coming from day one and warned the woman not to marry the guy? This describes the majority of divorces I see in the church nowadays. The woman goes into it knowing exactly what she is getting. So even in the cases where the husband is formally at fault, it doesn't mean the woman is blameless.

Anonymous said...

Very insightful comments.

As Eric Mueller mentions, I too have never EVER heard a divorced women take ANY responsibility for her divorce. He was a cheat, a jerk, lazy, disrespectful, etc. She has learned to 'love herself finally' and has to 'take time for herself' and wants a 'nice guy who respects women' etc.

This applies to women who also simply broke up with a boyfriend...

It would be amusing if it wasn't so prevalent.

Apollyon

IndyGuy77 said...

I asked two women today if they'd ever heard a woman take blame for their divorce.

Both said "no".

One said "What woman would admit to that?"

The honesty was amusing, even though it was probably unintentional.

JCclimber said...

I know a couple women who did take responsibility.
One was an excellent wingwoman for me back when we were both still single. She ruefully admitted to me everything thing she did wrong in her relationship that caused her man to find someone else.

Strangely enough, she got back together with him. I think this is in large part because she was wise enough to take action on her own accountability.

The other woman admitted that she was a bad mother and that is was best for her children to be with her ex-husband.

JCclimber said...

That said, the other 150-200 divorced women I know, none of them would admit except under torture while drunk that they had any part to play in the divorce. Including my first wife.

JCclimber said...

I think women and men both who trash their exes in front of their children are doing themselves a huge disservice. Because the kid loves even the most flawed, abusive, alcoholic parent.

If the ex can show that the other parent from the viewpoint of compassion, it raises the respect their children have for them and their ability to be truthful and fair.

Just don't be a pussy and deny that there are any faults about the ex. In fact, I've seen some really great mothers scold their children for running down their own fathers in public.

Vox said...

You don't take into account the fact that the a lot of divorces are caused by Dad's infidelity and philandering, and Mom then moves to divorce so she can cash out on the alpha and find a better beta Dad for the kids.

There is no need to because most of them aren't. It's simply not statistically possible. Not to denigrate your own experience, but it's just an anecdote. It's not an example of the majority of the divorces.

Anonymous said...

I should have been more clear-- I entirely agree that most women blame the ex for everything. I said I tell people in trouble that a divorce is never one person's fault, but I forgot to add that very few women are inclined to believe that.

Rycamor, you described my situation exactly. When we got together, I was depressed and desperate and wasn't trusting God. One older Christian wasn't opposed to the relationship, and if she had been, the hamster *might* have run out of fuel. Maybe.

I totally agree with not criticizing the other parents in front of the child. My stepdaughter asked me once if I like her mom & stepdad (I would have not believed such people could exist had I not known them). I said "Uhh, well, um, I don't really know them very well, we don't talk much."

Southern Man said...

Yep. One year after the divorce, she kicks teen son out and he moved in with me. Three years after, teen daughter elected to switch to me over Mom's vehement protests. Mom remarries, moves out of state; the two teens will have nothing to do with their new stepdad and third child is adamant that she'll move in with me when she starts high school (in a few years) whether Mom likes it or not.

Badger said...

"But what has baffled me is my ex's complete disinterest in seeing her children once I had custody. She has seen my daughter twice in the first year and my youngest son five or six times."

It's well-understood by those who look closely at the stats that a major motivation for women to initiate divorce is the almost absolutely certainty that they will get custody, which gives them an income stream, the maintenance of her "identity as a mother" and the moral high ground to plead "I'm a single mother!" against any criticism.

If mom loses interest in the kids when they can no longer be used as a pawn in the system, it makes me think she's an even bigger monster than a woman who would take her children's father away from them for her own selfish reasons.

The LP 999/Linda said...

Red flag; mothers who have no custody or very restricted custody of the their children.

R. Bradley Andrews said...

"However, it's also important to resist any urge to poison them against her."

That is a very good point. Even my own mother did more of that then she tried to do, with more subtle comments, but he remained my father. (He had PLENTY of flaws and we had a very hard time relating as adults later in life.)

The children will always have a love for both of their parents.

We had this same challenge for your children, who were adopted. I tried to never bad mouth the birth parents, yet some still came with the idea that we had called them bad. They felt an inner need to defend some pretty poor behavior with many illogical assertions.

====

My mother certainly did not have anyone else on the side and never had any serious relationships while we were children. (And none really serious after that, though I recall one long-term beta orbiter.)

My father was into fooling around, though I suspect my mother had no idea about it and merely pushed him out as a ploy to get more attention from him.

As I have gotten older and gone through many of the same things I am sure my father went through (in his own manner), I can definitely relate that he was not fairly treated by my mother or step mother (who divorced him when he declared he was going into full time ministry).

Experience has a way of lighting things up in a far different manner.

Anonymous said...

Extremely well articulated. I would also suggest that if a man wishes to remarry, that he chooses his new wife with the greatest of care as the dynamics that you've described above are extremely complex.

It's imperative to have the girls back in your home before they opt to become sexually active. A good PI can help considerably - DUI with kids, boyfriends with criminal backgrounds, and so forth will get it done in a quite straightforward fashion.

RC

Trust said...

@Anonymous said... I would also suggest that if a man wishes to remarry, that he chooses his new wife with the greatest of care as the dynamics that you've described above are extremely complex
_________

Definitely. I think even good intentioned wives-to-be underestimate how much their demeanor will be swayed by the options and security afforded them by Marriage 2.0 laws. Even extended "try before you buys" do not reveal how someone will act when they are given excessive power.

Anonymous said...

One year beyond divorce and the 50/50 joint custody ex went nuclear attempting to stop has segued into 80/20 in my favor. We are stunned by the indifference she shows to their school, sports, birthdays and musical events. Child support has become a sick joke as I feed, shelter, drive and clothe them almost totally. And I had ranked her as a very good mother up until now. Your post provides some insight but we are still at a loss to explain her change.

IndyGuy77 said...

Maybe once they see not too many folks buy into their Martyr Complex they just give up?

Markku said...

"Your post provides some insight but we are still at a loss to explain her change."

If they're small, tell them that mothers were designed to have father around or something just breaks in their head, but people have forgotten this in the last 40 years and hopefully will learn it again soon.

Anonymous said...

"Mom remarries, moves out of state; the two teens will have nothing to do with their new stepdad and third child is adamant that she'll move in with me when she starts high school"

Honestly Southern Man, I feel sorry for the stepdad the most of all in this situation. I bet he even helps pay all their bills. Then again, on the other hand I'm thinking suckerrrrr.

GAHCindy said...

Eric said: "Interesting points, Vox.

That brings up something that occurred to me the other day. I won't explain what caused me to think about this, but I can't say I've EVER heard a divorced woman take any responsibility for the divorce. Even those more conciliatory to their ex-husbands still hint that things would have held together if not for some fault or other of her ex.

I've never heard a divorced woman some anything to the effect of "Well, I was just a cold hearted, ungrateful bitch. I should have treated my husband a little better." I've never heard it. Has anyone else?

Even in Christian churches, when they let women get up and give a testimony, and that testimony involves a divorce, it always seems to come back to something the ex-husband did or didn't do.

I don't think I'm sidetracking from the point of your post. I believe this goes to female solipsism."

Actually, he probably could have heard me say that in the comments on your other once. I divorced a young man who didn't deserve it in any way. And I take full responsibility for it. What's funny about it, and appalling, and makes me kinda sick, really, is the way that even Christians will try to excuse what I did. My own mom does it. "Oh, he was a bad guy. Horrible, shiftless." Yes, and since that is what I married, that is what I should have stayed married to. I know she's just trying to make me feel better, but I question her ability to apply her faith to real life.

Leaving my first husband was a sin--grievous one, and we're both damaged because of it. He was more hurt by it than I was, I'm afraid. I really couldn't stop myself from being as bad as I was. It's just a fact of fallen human nature.

There weren't any kids involved, but if there were, in my unrepentant condition, I wonder what would have happened to them. I really shudder to think about it. I was, as you say, a cold-hearted, ungrateful bitch.

Jesus saves, though. There are some real Christian girls out there who can be trusted to be better than that. I'm sure Vox can tell us all how to sort them out from the Churchians, right? ;-)

GAHCindy said...

on your other = on your other blog once. Oops.

The other skeptic said...

The following is nothing more than an anecdote and should not be mistaken for data :-)

Having said that, we are flooded during our lives with pap that tries to indoctrinate us with what 'love' is and what the ideal human behavior is.

It is important to understand, in my opinion, that males and females face different risks with respect to reproduction.

Females face the risk that they will get pregnant and then be abandoned, potentially resulting in the death of the child, loss of access to good quality mates in the future, and even death.

Males face the risk that they will be handed another man's baby, and a lifetime of cuckoldry.

My mother experienced the first. After traveling a couple of thousand miles in pursuit of my bio father, unsuccessfully, she found another man who was willing to provide upkeep for certain benefits. She got pregnant twice more. While the man she did a deal with was an adequate father when not drunk, he was abusive when drunk. His beef seemed to be inadequate access to sex and my memories of those times suggest that infidelity was raised against my mother on many occasions.

Eventually she died when I had just reached two digits.

He continued in his role as our father, but was unable to cease his drunken abuse, transferring it to myself and my brother, and life was unpleasant for a number of years.

However, I find it very hard these days to condemn my step-father because in some sense he was in a difficult place as well, and he certainly kept whatever bargain he had with my mother until I reached an age where I could leave and go to college. I personally would never get involved with a single woman who has children. Never, Ever!

After all, the solution to the risks faced by both males and females that I mentioned above is to be more careful in choosing partners. The pap we are fed these days about poor women being abused by their partners only makes me more adamant that they should have been more careful :-)

At this stage I have been married for over 30 years, and have helped raise two children. Their mother was not the loving mother of the movies or books or myth, but she has been very responsible and she bequeathed them a fine set of genes, and I know she cares about them. I have done my part as well.

Anonymous said...

"I started skipping church on Father's Day. I got tired of hearing it."

I started skipping church entirely. I miss it, but it's like being in an abusive relationship.

yukonyon said...

I see hope in the fact that the latent fixation on penis envy that was gestated in public school with kids in two-parent homes, breeding the typical I-gotta-prove-something feminist of the 70's and early 80's, doesn't work quite so well when Daddy isn't actually there anymore.

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