Saturday, December 24, 2011

A cogent observation

One of Trust's comments is well worth highlighting:
I've come to the realization one of the reasons women are so suspect of men who treat them well is because women tend to use pleasing behavior as a manipulation, therefore that is how they see it.
Psychological projection not only explains a significant amount of human behavior, but also provides a tremendous amount of insight into the mind of the individuals with whom we interact. We all witness and interpret the words and actions of others through our own psychological filters. For example, most of the unfaithful men I know are absolutely terrified of being betrayed by the women in their lives, whereas it doesn't even occur to the faithful men that their wives could be capable of cheating on them.

In neither case does the proclivity of the woman to be unfaithful or not bear any relationship to the man's belief in her capacity for treachery. The reality is that no one can truly know the depths of depravity or the heights of self-sacrifice to which another individual is capable, much less inclined, so barring any meaningful evidence or observable behavioral patterns, it is totally useless to spend any time contemplating such matters.

But behavioral patterns are often on display and evidence is often freely provided. When a woman is openly suspicious of kind and generous behavior, or worse, simple civility and human decency, the chances are very high that you are dealing with a damaged and/or solipsistic individual. Since nearly all of their behavior is intrinsically manipulative, they literally cannot imagine that everyone else's is not equally manipulative.

Just as it is unwise to involve yourself with a woman who is prone to incessantly challenging you, it is a very bad idea to have any involvement with a woman who is suspicious of men who treat her well. Not only will she entirely discount all positive behavior on your part, but she will justify any amount of negative behavior on her own. The delta's impulse to white knight and rescue such a woman from her negative attitude about men will often prove to be profoundly self-destructive, and will soon turn into a pattern where he repeatedly attempts to prove his worthiness through sacrifices that only inspire her contempt.

A man should be decent, kind, and generous to others for his own sake, not for how such behavior might be useful to him. That being said, one of the very valuable returns from such positive behavior is reliable information about the character of those who are the beneficiaries of it.

20 comments:

STX said...

When i am kind to others. I do it because of Christ. The wife knows I don't do shit tests. I try to treat everyone kindly. When I transferred into a new area, I told a famous troublemaker I can play hardball with the best. He believed, and we get along splendedly. I think rodney king had the best quote. Why can't we all get along? It should be the natural state for all to be pleaseant to each other. But we are fallen. Logically, who want's drama? You're right about women projecting. That's why I quit arguing with the wife when she has an occasional hormonal outburst. I just ignore her and go on doing my thing.

R. Bradley Andrews said...

Not arguing is the biggest benefit I think I have gotten out of this. I suspect some of that stems from a desire to always "be right," but it is largely fruitless in almost any context.

It is irrelevant whether you are right or wrong, others will believe what they want to believe.

STX said...

Exactly. If I have truly f@ucked up, I will apologize. Otherwise I brush it off.

STX said...

Love the wife and kids and would sacrifice my life for them. Helps knowing where I will end up. But she also knows she has to keep up her end of the bargain. She knows I could trade up to a younger HB. Loyalty and taking care of sh&t

STX said...

Sorry, got broken up. But very devoted and sweet will keep most men home. If they have a brain. A good, decent woman is hard to find. But being female, you still have to have game, short of her being Mother Theresa.

STX said...

Merry Christmas. Let's hope the mayans are wrong.

Anonymous said...

Her negative attitude may just be the result of being abused by men, in which case your rejection of her simply compounds her suspicions that men are unreliable. It all depends on whether you value a particular woman or not. If you are honorable, and think you value the company of a woman who suspects men due to a history of abuse, it your choice whether to show her you're not an a-hole or not. It all depends on your attraction and priorities.

To reject a woman who has understandable drawn the wrong assumptions about men on that basis alone is a superficial attitude to take. On the other hand, her suspicions may well be well founded, if you happen to be the man she meets.

The LP 999/Linda said...

Very insightful. Now this is the kind of applicable psychology I'd agree with.

Let us opt for kindness...

cookie said...

Anonymous 3:44
The scenario you describe is unlikely. It's possible the type of woman described in this piece may indeed turn out to be worth the shite one would have to put up with to get to 'how she really is if it wasn't for all those evil men who've abused her in the past', but more likely her character is her own and how she is in the early stages after having met her is the best she's ever going to be. A man would be better off investing his time elsewhere.

IndyGuy77 said...

"That's why I quit arguing with the wife when she has an occasional hormonal outburst. I just ignore her and go on doing my thing."

I have a habit of saying my woman's feelings or what they're saying is just silly or irrational.

That tends to piss them off, but my usual reaction is "eh, whatever, you can be whacky if you want but I'm not listening".

I refuse to endure to a hysterically emoting female.

Is there a better way to respond?

JCclimber said...

Or you can just nod, smile, and say "that's interesting". Or "thank you for sharing that with me".

Saying that you're not listening is not going to help, it will hurt. They need you to listen. What they don't need is for you to change your mind or behavior because of the stream of consciousness they spew.

IndyGuy77 said...

OK, this is turning into an interesting thought exercise for me.

Watching how my dad would give in to emotionalism and/or tears, it irks me whenever women do it in my presence, but it infuriates to have them pull it on me.

Whenever I try to talk things out I cannot help but say "You're being ridiculous". Then it seems to boil down to her whining about "You don't care about my feelings".

And to a good extent, I really, really don't. Because:
1 - those feelings are leading her to say stupid things,
2 - she's going to stop feeling this way in a short time anyway,
3 - she won't remember saying these stupid things next week if not by tomorrow,

My initial thoughts were that I'm probably better off leaving the room with dismissive contempt than letting the idiocy build up and I end up yelling at her.

But I suppose I could just listen, let her vent til she's done and then say "I love it when you talk nonsense" and kiss her madly until we need to catch our breath.

THEN leave the room to play XBox.

This seems to be coming back to the "Reality Police" posts... I think if I just embrace the insanity I might be better off.

Anonymous said...

" For example, most of the unfaithful men I know are absolutely terrified of being betrayed by the women in their lives, whereas it doesn't even occur to the faithful men that their wives could be capable of cheating on them.

The boyfriend of my younger sister's roommate immediately came to mind. The man is a train wreck and incredibly selfish. He views any negative event (and not infrequently seemingly neutral events) as deliberate attempts to wrong him and I can't think of a single instance where a shred of introspection has ever led him to conclude he's ever been at fault for anything. Both times I shared a cab with him, he's gotten in drunken arguments with the driver about not taking the most efficient route and refused to pay (leaving me to pick up the tab).

He's shorter than my sister's roommate and wears those heel lifts in his shoes, has a napoleon complex, etc.

In any case, your observation describes him perfectly. He's cheated on his girlfriend multiple times that I'm aware of and I don't see him any more frequently than once every couple months, while at the same time, is incredibly possessive and concerned about how and with whom my sister's roommate spends her time.

Despite being generally oblivious, she seems like an otherwise nice and trustworthy gal.

Mrs. Pilgrim said...

From Anon at 3:44:

Her negative attitude may just be the result of being abused by men, in which case your rejection of her simply compounds her suspicions that men are unreliable.

You cannot make someone let go of the past; you can only encourage them to do it. They have to make that choice.

There is a distinct difference between people who choose to break free of their fears, however rational those fears might seem, and those who prefer to use the scars as an excuse to behave badly. The former -might- be worth it (to a man with the kind of patience that reminds us of God's forbearance), but the latter tends to share their personal Hell with everyone else.

Der Hahn said...

I've found projection to be a useful framework for examining my own thoughts and feelings toward another person. I tend to overanalyze events so I need to regularaly stop, take a breather, and realize that unless I'm thinkin about actual behavior or opinions I'm more than likely projecting my own thoughts into their head.

Anonymous said...

I find this puzzling. Your thoughts on Gaming wives includes things that I would find to be rude, mean and demeaning.

Since this is what I saw growing up, I never once trusted a man to actually love me when he was kind and caring toward me. I assumed that if someone loved you, they pointed out all your faults (real or imagined) constantly and tried to make you change them.

Something to think about for you men out their with daughters. The way you "game" your wife will be what she finds "normal" in her search for a partner.

I have yet to see you tell men to "game" their wives by being decent, kind and generous. But maybe I am missing something?

Maybe you mean be kind and decent and generous to everyone else, and game your wife?

CC

Trust said...

@Anonymous said...
I find this puzzling. Your thoughts on Gaming wives includes things that I would find to be rude, mean and demeaning.
___________

He isn't talking about what is right and fair, he is talking about what works. Or, more specifically, what women in general respond positively too.

It may not be fair, but remember. it is women who control the rewards system.

If you find loyal and sweet more attractive than asshole and aloof, by all means, I urge you to marry a loyal and honorable man, and treat him well and have sex with him often. He'll pay you back 100 fold. Unfortunately, for 99%R of men, that approach just doesn't work.

I doubt he'll encourage men to game his daughters. I have two daughters, and I'll teach them about how men work and how life isn't a chick flick. If they genuinely want a good marriage to a good man, they simply have to respond in good ways to good men. Why should any women reasonably expect to response with disdain to good men, respond sexually and submissively to bad men, and yet somehow magically find themselves in a marriage with a good man?

rycamor said...

He isn't talking about what is right and fair, he is talking about what works. Or, more specifically, what women in general respond positively too.

It may not be fair, but remember. it is women who control the rewards system.
...

If you find loyal and sweet more attractive than asshole and aloof, by all means, I urge you to marry a loyal and honorable man, and treat him well and have sex with him often. He'll pay you back 100 fold. Unfortunately, for 99% of men, that approach just doesn't work.

Why should any women reasonably expect to response with disdain to good men, respond sexually and submissively to bad men, and yet somehow magically find themselves in a marriage with a good man?


It really is a tough balance for good men to walk. Even a lifelong Christian woman who says (and maybe even believes) she wants a kind and caring husband doesn't necessarily respond to that. Or at least, not to a man who is nothing BUT that. Women: how fair is it to marry a man who fulfills these characteristics but who does not turn you on in the slightest? Men marry with the expectation of sex. Lots of it. If the thought of sex several times a week with your husband sounds irksome even before marriage, then... just don't.

Vox's point about Game is not to teach men to turn off the kind and caring parts of their nature completely. It is to teach them that this is NEVER ENOUGH in itself. Women reading about Game have a tendency to read this in an either-or context, possibly because (dare I suggest?) that raises the drama element of the discussion. It's more about a man bringing all his firepower to bear, when he has been taught to stow most of it.

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