Friday, April 15, 2011

Alpha Mail: the dancing gamma

I have to confess, I'm not exactly sure what to make of this email:
I was at dancing recently, and took some video. Watching my body language, I was horrified. I thought I'd stopped pedestalizing women. But my facial expressions said otherwise.

Now, the Gamma, he pedestalizes women from a position of weakness. He thinks they are greater and better than him, or pure and virginal, or nonsense like that. I have had no such illusions for quite a number of years. Gamma is the White Knight. So, in my mental frame, I wasn't pedestalizing women.

Now, we go to your description of the Omega. You characterised him as having deluded self grandeur. Now that makes sense. You can put a woman on a pedestal from the opposite direction. Roissy teaches that you might have to use anti-game on the uglies, the women who are more than 2 SMP points below you. The grandiose Omega assumes he is a TEN, and the women are FIVEs at best... He puts them on a pedestal because he thinks he is so darn superior to them!

Same end result; pedestalization. Women don't want to be treated like China dolls, they want just enough roughness to know that you COULD rough them up... but that you in control of yourself, and can control them. Whether Gamma or Omega, pedestalization deprives them of those vagina tingles of feeling off-balance, but safe and secure.
This entire email smacks of Gamma overthinking and socio-sexual incoherence. While the Omega does tend to overrate himself, I don't think the concept of putting someone on a pedestal because they are inferior to you makes any sense at all. Indeed, the rampant misconceptions of Game run amok are one of the very reasons I started Alpha Game, in order to lend some coherence to the various contradictory concepts floating around. So, to be clear, "putting women on a pedestal" means viewing them as intrinsically superior to men on some basis by virtue of their sex. This may mean a belief that women don't lie, that women don't like to have sex if they are not in love, that women are more pure, noble, and innocent, or another of any number of ideas that diverge from the reality of observable female behavior.

As to the topic of dancing, it is a tricky matter. Most men and women are bad dancers and look a little ridiculous when they are dancing, the difference is that most men realize they are bad whereas most women not only think they are pretty good, but tend to consider themselves to be in a position to criticize the mediocre male dancers. (Now bite that lip and swing that bottom on the two-beat, baby!) What this amounts to is that a man should generally avoid dancing unless he is out on the floor with a woman who is a very good dancer, which means, counterintuitively, that she is not likely to be critical of him. (For some reason, very good dancers tend not to be critical of other people's dancing, probably because compared to them, practically everyone is pretty bad.)

For all that they talk about it, it doesn't appear that most women are attracted to men who are good dancers on the basis of their dancing. I have a friend, a classic beta and high quality wingman, who is a very good dancer. He is a master of all the Latin dances and is a known fixture at the salsa nights in the various city nightclubs. But aside from being a fun mutual pursuit with his current girlfriend, a dedicated tango enthusiast, I've never seen it do him any good with American women. They even appear to be a little put off by his ability, as if they see it as somewhat effeminate for a man to dance well if he does not have the requisite dark skin to excuse it. If you think about it, women don't tend to have the same positive reaction to hearing a man is a dance instructor that they do to a personal trainer, a tennis instructor, or even a yoga teacher. It may not hurt, but it doesn't help.

Anyhow, as with most things for men, the best approach to dancing to either master it or not mess with it.


Joseph Dantes said...

I think there's a layer of truth to what he's saying, namely the conscious omega layer of thought.

But it's the subconscious layer, and the non-subjective perspective, that's far more important. This realization of his is a minor improvement but won't generate revolutionary results.

JT said...

Being a great dancer does help for several reasons.

You become one by practicing and taking courses. There you interact (physically) with women. The experience of that physical interaction in class groups where women outnumber you is excellent. Plus, these women tend to be reasonably young, with healthy bodies, and rather extrovert.

That you can easily move confidently among a group of young female dancers is a serious turn on (for them).

That, as a great dancer, you get to teach them naturally makes it even better (they ask you to).

Stingray said...

I would bet that when women see a white guy dancing really well their first thought goes to lambda.

If a man can exude really good dance skills and his ALPHA status at the same time, women will be ALL over him. I have a dear friend who is a classic ALPHA; 6'3", 220, retired special forces and an absolutely amazing dancer. He could get more a** than a toilet seat.

ox said...

OK confession time. The email lost me.

Vox said...

If a man can exude really good dance skills and his ALPHA status at the same time, women will be ALL over him. I have a dear friend who is a classic ALPHA; 6'3", 220, retired special forces and an absolutely amazing dancer.

It has nothing to do with his dancing....

Aksia said...

Dancing can work. See "The Wedding Crashers" opening scene. You don't have to be good. Just confident and spin the girls around making them dizzy.

jay c said...

Dancing is a useful tool as long as you don't look gay (e.g. too good at Latin dances) or try to be too young. If you're over 30, stick with ballroom dancing and don't ever let her lead.

jay c said...

Unfortunately, ballroom dancing is most useful if you're cougar hunting.

Anonymous said...

Napoleon Dynamite dances great.

Stingray said...

It has nothing to do with his dancing.... - Vox

No it doesn't, but I will say that the tingle the women feel from him turns straight to a tremor when they watch him dance.

I guess my point is that if a man can really dance it will only enhance and heighten the ALPHA he already is. If a Delta can dance well, he may be able to use it in conjunction with game to help bring his status higher (or at least help him meet someone.)

Anonymous said...

Every three minute dance is like a "set". It is good for learning how to interact with women. Observe which moves excite them, and which ones leave them blah. It is like Game in miniature. You approach the set (ask her to dance). You leader her onto the dance floor (you change the venue). Which moves excite the women? The ones that make them feel off-balance, but that you are in control. The moves where you demonstrate strength, and that you aren't afraid to use it.

Dance is great for self-realization; the way you interact with the woman is very physical; in a minute or two you realize what is going on in your own mind.

I am the poster who sent the email. To explain further; the Omega treats the girl with "kid gloves" because he thinks she is so fragile compared to his uber-masculine He-Man self. This has the same net effect as pedestalization.

Or, let's say you view the woman like a retarded little child; you treat her like a child. How do you treat a child? You kneel down to their level. It comes across as pedestalization.

This Omega's ego needs to come into check. I'm puzzled at Vox saying I'm a Gamma.

Anonymous said...

Good dancing CAN give a woman tingles... if you are communicating that you are "in charge" and "in control". This works best when the women are new dancers. They don't know much about dancing, but they can sense that you are pulling them through moves that make them look good. That feeling that they are putty in your hands. Isn't that what Game is all about? In Dancing, you do push-pull LITERALLY. With your body and hers.

Anonymous said...

A lot of women that come to dancing, ESPECIALLY the older ones, you can tell within seconds that they have problems with trust and following. But when a women follows sweetly and docilely in the dance, she is generally the same off the dance floor too.

Dancing isn't so much about exciting the women (although it can do that). It is also about YOU testing a bunch of women to see what excites YOU. I can tell you, I've been surprised at the women that gave me a reaction.

Also, I'm talking about salsa/ballroom, etc. Not that solitary no-touch stuff people do in night clubs.

Anonymous said...

@jay c, don't know where you are going ballroom dancing, but in my venue, most females are late teens, early twenties. The cougs don't last long; the men ignore them mercilessly.

Anonymous said...

@JD I agree, by itself, this realization won't generate results. But it tells me I need to dig deeper and figure out why I'm still pedestalizing women, even after a year of reading (and practicing) Roissy's stuff.

Anonymous said...

The no-touch dancing can be useful as a form of peacocking. Just like having big muscles or a six-pack. But only if you are smooth and fluid and coordinated. Having your upper and lower bodies doing different things simultaneously has to be some indicator of mental agility. Watch this video for example:

Anonymous said...

@Aksia Dancing can work. See "The Wedding Crashers" opening scene. You don't have to be good. Just confident and spin the girls around making them dizzy.

True comment. Don't make them too dizzy or too off balance. But it is all about them having that feeling that you are in control. It is the quickest and easiest way to do that in polite society. It is about you showing that you can lead firmly and decisively. They don't think this in their minds; they FEEL it in their limbic systems immediately. If your alpha, this is a way to clean up. If you are less than alpha, the woman's responses will let you know exactly where you stand.

realmatt said...

Reminds me of something Bane said about how great a dancer he was and how the ladies loved it.

And also semi Bane related this talk of dance reminds me of The Judge.

In conclusion, you should all read Blood Meridian.

Rippin' Richie said...

"For some reason, very good dancers tend not to be critical of other people's dancing"

This is true. I'm a professional pop and lock dancer and I'm never critical of anybody's dancing. If you're having fun you're doing it right, unless it's some kind of competition or show.

Dancing definitely exposes your confidence level. It's body language times 10.

JCclimber said...

When I did ballroom for awhile, there were several lessons I learned.
1) You've got to do the asking. If you're really good compared to the other men there, some might come and grab you for a dance. Or if you're better looking than the competition.
2) You better be ready to lead with confidence. Every woman I danced with was appreciative of a good lead who didn't crash them into other dancers. And made them look good to boot.
3) You just need to know all the basic moves pretty well, and 2 or 3 more advanced moves. Mix and match. The sets are short. Of course, this won't work so well if you keep dancing with the same partner. So move on, you'll increase her interest by doing so.
4) Don't feel like you've always got to be out there dancing. Take breaks. They are a good time to chat up the women.
5) My women friends loved the men who didn't talk much, were confident, and led them around. One friend was gushing about the man who just grabbed her hand and pulled her out on the dance floor without a single word. I think she needed to change her panties, even though she said he wasn't that good of a dancer nor was he very attractive looking.

Ted Walther said...

Who is/was Bane? I've seen him referenced at VoxDay a few times.

Anonymous said...

@Ted: Bane was a long-time commenter at Vox Popoli who passed away back in '09. Great guy, quite unique, and in the context of game a "sigma" lone-wolf type. His old blog is the first link on Vox's blogroll. - Astrosmith

No one has mentioned country/western dancing. If you can two-step and cotton-eyed-joe fairly well, the kicker chicks will dig you.

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