Thursday, August 18, 2016

Men overestimate themselves too

When they don't go out and experience rejection:
Perhaps you are new to the game, or maybe you’ve been out of it for a long while, due to a long-term relationship or marriage. Either way, even if you’re the world’s most insecure guy, the chances are you will overestimate your SMV (sexual market value) – by five points.

Yes, that’s right. Most guys new to game think they are a whole five points higher than the women they approach rate them.... It is only by going out into the real world, approaching real-life women, hitting on them (and making it obvious that you’re doing so) that you will get feedback that is worth anything.

And the chances are, unless you’re a natural, that feedback is going to say ‘sorry, you’re not good enough.’
Rejection stings everyone. It hurts, initially. But like working out, you soon adapt to the pain and the results soon make that initial pain worthwhile.

No pain, no gain is as true of Game as it is of the gym. Go out. Fail. Fail faster. Because, as Aerosmith pointed out several decades ago, you've got to lose to know how to win.

If you think about it, the reason men overestimate their SMV is the same reason women overestimate it: lack of rejection.

38 comments:

JP said...

Can't wait to hear how LBF is a special little snowflake.

c0l0nelp0pc0rn said...

This hurts but it is necessary for growth. All she ever wants you to be is hard.

Ron said...

No pain, no gain

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Can't wait to hear how LBF is a special little snowflake.

I'm a 15. Don't be jealous, brah.

B.J. said...

One problem I always had when encouraging my friends to approach was they would conjure up all these absurd fantasies of humiliation and danger. "She'll slap me, she'll pour a drink on my head, she'll call the cops, etc." This never actually happens. Most women are far too passive to lash out on a complete stranger. Most likely she'll smile awkwardly and tell you she has a boyfriend and try to get away from you.

I blame hollywood for this. TV shows and movies routinely display men receiving swift and violent retaliation when they approach women. You're far more likely to get slapped by a girl you're already dating.

Mountain Man said...
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Mountain Man said...

I have a buddy who is a pussy slaying machine. He's probably pushing 200 + women. The guy is in his 40s and is built (hard lifter) . Outside of that he's not what one would call "good looking". He's also not "rich" or really reflective.
However, the one trait he has that distinguishes him ,from most other men ,is his persistence. He just keeps confidently putting himself out there whether its well received or not. He gets rejected - often - but he never stops moving forward. Some of the pussy he pulls is lower tier but quite a large portion is also fuckin hot. Most of them are in their mid 20's. For a middle age guy that is impressive.

Verne said...

I'm thinking someone did not do well at math, but the point is spot on. The self confidence of being a 10 drives a man to hit at will. The more you are hitting on woman the more you will be rejected. The only way to never be rejected is to become a monk.

Timmy3 said...

No one should take it personally. Rejection isn't always about you. A man should rate themselves higher since he has to believe he is attractive to get a girl.

Cataline Sergius said...

I've said this before but it bares repeating.

When you approach a girl, your biggest fear is rejection but really that is your only fear. That's it. That's the worst thing that can happen to you as a guy when you approach a girl.

Now reverse it. What is a girls biggest fear when she is approached by a guy? Kidnap, rape and murder. And no, I'm not being hysterical. As a guy you can go weeks at a time without feeling threatened. Women feel threatened on a daily basis. They live their lives in fear and that’s the truth of it. They are physically weaker then men and they know it. This is the reason women go to the bathroom in groups, if they have sane (non-SJW) mothers they are taught to do that.



They statistically have a hell of a lot more to fear from you, than you have to fear from them.

Keep in mind when making your approach.

Undocumented Pharmacist said...
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Anchorman said...

Cataline,
So, you're saying to work in, "I won't rape, murder, or kidnap you" into your routine?

On it.

Undocumented Pharmacist said...

Most guys new to game think they are a whole five points higher than the women they approach rate them....

I skimmed the article (mostly garbage) and didn't see how this number was arrived at. Didn't PoF data say that the women there rated 80% of men as being below average? Women are always looking to depreciate a man's worth in comparison to her own. BUT, is there really an issue in that lots of big fat slob guys really think they're 7s,8s,and 9s? Doubtful. Do some guys overestimate their attractiveness by a point or two? Sure, but isn't irrational but not psychotic (3 thinks he's an 8) confidence part of a winning attitude?

Keep working on improving yourself (in all areas) and keep approaching the type women you're attracted to. Most likely you'll get a match eventually.

Audacity17 said...

A man may think he's a point or two higher than he is, while women think most men are 3 points lower than reality. Voila, 5 points.

S. Misanthrope said...

Statistically, women are more likely to be domestic abusers. Some data suggests they rape about as much as men do. If she slaps you on approach, be grateful she showed you her true nature early.

Verne said...

Game would not work if woman had a consistent system of rating men. Acting like an alpha makes woman see you as higher than you really are. So our number changes depending on how good a job of presenting ourselves we do.

Example this man was once Washington's hot guy, a total slayer

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1973/kissinger.jpg

dc.sunsets said...

It didn't hurt me in the long run, but I wish I had been bolder as a young man (I was still bold at times.) I like the advice of looking at approaches not so much as expecting rejection vs success, but more "is the timing right?" A "no" doesn't mean "you suck," it just means the timing is off, which isn't personal.

I don't fish for women now, but this mental twist is likely useful in sales, too. Lots of people wash out of sales because they can't stand the rejection there, too.

dc.sunsets said...

So Cataline, what you're saying is that women have more to fear than do men while out and about? I don't think so. And from watching women, most of them I know appear to fear absolutely nothing from any man, even men whose appearance would cause me to move my hand toward a weapon...and I'm a pretty big guy.

Women know they choose. The only thing they fear from the approach is that it comes from someone they regard as a toad. Otherwise they're all Looking For Mr Goodbar.

de ti said...

Cataline:

Re your "worst case scenario" for a woman is a violent crime:

1) Not so much anymore. Any woman can just say "help" and within seconds, white knights will arrive at her aid. Men in blue uniforms bearing guns and tasers will arrive a few minutes later to stomp the guts out of anyone threatening her.

2) Her fears from an approach are not men's problem. That's her problem.

Fred Mok said...

Brueggemann says there is a close relationship between truth and pain. We only learn the hard way.

Crowhill said...

It's no wonder men and women over-estimate themselves. We've been fed a constant diet of "Everyone is beautiful and precious just the way they are and they deserve a wonderful life."

Anchorman said...

deti,
Regarding #1, it's irrelevant to a woman. She imagines far worse, even when she knows a situation is "safe."

I was in SERE training in Washington. They separate the women at one point. A woman's placed in a room with a bag over her head and a guy walks around the room, not even saying a word. They freak the hell out, thinking a rape will happen at any moment.

This is in a training environment. They're in the military. The trainers are in the military. They're told things like this could happen. It is a whisper wire, since we're technically not supposed to divulge, it's still done because of how many women freak out.

I'm not saying it happens every time, but I don't doubt if a guy makes some facial expression or some action, her lizard brain kicks in and screams, "He's going to hurt you!"

That said, your second point stands. No reason to not approach. Just don't expect a rational response.

Cataline Sergius said...

Nothing screams Gamma Male like the words, "So, what you're saying is..."


Cataline Sergius said...

@Anchorman

So, you're saying to work in, "I won't rape, murder, or kidnap you" into your routine?

Correct you go to the head of the of class.

But here's the thing. You have to do that without saying a word of it. You have to do that just by walking up to her with a calm, assertive dominant presence that says, I'm the man with options.

Cataline Sergius said...

@de ti

You have a paradigm problem. You can't see things from a woman's perspective.

Read the Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.

He is quite unintentionally one of the best resources there is on this subject.


VFM #7634 said...

@dc.sunsets @de ti
Actually, that's no longer true in any country that's been flooded with Muslim men. If The Witch wins in November, it'll be that way here too.

de ti said...
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de ti said...

Cataline:

I'm familiar with de Becker's work.

I don't care about a woman's perspective. The entire world bears, encourages, promotes and cultivates a woman's perspective. The entire world protects, shields, curates, and coddles her perspective.

Caring about a woman's perspective turns men into women with penises. Caring about a woman's perspective won't get a man laid.

What men need to do is to approach her, and make her make a choice: reject him, or continue the interaction. She has all the power in the world to make that choice. Women asked for this power, they have it, so they need to exercise it, and men need to require them to make that choice.

Cataline Sergius said...

@de ti

Look, either click the link in my first original comment read what I wrote there or don't.

I can't care either way.

I've had three hours open up this evening that I didn't have before which means I might be able to get a book review done ahead of schedule if I give up another three hours of sleep tonight to do it.

Starting now.

No longer commenting on this thread.

Cope.

Rodger Smith said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Dexter said...

"I was in SERE training in Washington. They separate the women at one point. A woman's placed in a room with a bag over her head and a guy walks around the room, not even saying a word. They freak the hell out, thinking a rape will happen at any moment."

If our women soldiers get captured the enemy guards will never give them that uncomfortable "I'm about to be raped" feeling so there is no point in trying to train our women to overcome it.

Jackie DeLister said...

@Mountaib Man

To put it in math terms, the denominator doesn't matter, just the numerator.

Jackie DeLister said...

@Mountaib Man

To put it in math terms, the denominator doesn't matter, just the numerator.

SQT said...

Thank goodness for wife goggles- my husband still thinks I'm hot. Truth be told he'd have no problems if he was suddenly single and I know it. Getting old suuuuucks.

dc.sunsets said...

So glad Cataline set me straight.

I thought ad hominem labeling was some other group's norm. "I'm an alpha, he's a beta, you're a gamma and your best friend is a zeta." How many Devil Dog tattoos has my buddy here?

[Staying personal, the nom de plume CS chose is inscrutable.]

dc.sunsets said...

@SQT, I thought the whole point of AG is for a man to find the right woman while she's in her prime and establish a lifelong partnership. My wife is the same pretty girl I married when she was 21. That's three kids, two houses, several jobs, three grandkids, and a whole lot more ago.

We've aged, sure, but that pretty girl dances in my eyes both when I close them and when I look at her today. That's the benefit I have of experiencing all of her life's stages since she was 15.

To me, it's considerably more than Wife Goggles that animates a husband's interest.

SQT said...

@dc.sunsets. Your perspective makes me happy. I've been with my husband longer than I have been without him and can't imagine being with anyone else.

dc.sunsets said...

@SQT, happiness is a choice. Assuming your husband has his head on straight (a task I have to see to daily for myself), he knows that no other woman could be remotely delightful enough to even slightly counterbalance the happiness you bring to him.

The times in which we live labor 24/7 to make us question our lives and wonder if the grass is greener somewhere (with someone) else. I find this tragic; if we choose well initially, our spouses represent the very best life we can hope for, and nurturing that partnership is always our best investment in happiness. It takes effort and acumen to ignore the toxic stew around us. That's my view, anyway. Glad that there are others out there treading Happiness Path and ignoring the con artists whose purpose is to undermine our convictions.

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