Sunday, February 28, 2016

Even one freaking room is too much

An attempt to shame men from their man-caves:
What differentiates the man cave from these more traditional male spaces is that workshops and studies are designed to accommodate a particular, elevating interest. These rooms are only isolated inasmuch as the activities proper to them are best pursued without distraction. With the man cave, however, the isolation from the family—the escape—is the primary purpose of the space. The man cave, therefore, is the image of the traditional male space without its substance.

Of course, a workshop or study could become an escape—a place to hide from family duties or to indulge selfish habits. But this would be a misuse, or abuse, of a space set aside for humane recreations. By contrast, the man cave by its very name announces that it is for me. Whatever happens in the room is merely an artifact of my desires and my personality.

The implication is that the rest of the house—the joint bedroom and the nice kitchen and the kids’ messy quarters and the other TV room—cannot adequately serve me and my precious individuality. (Women, apparently, are not such fragile snowflakes that they need their own room to express themselves. After all, she has the kitchen, right?) Worse, the man cave implies antagonism between the father’s masculine identity and his family identity and duties.
This isn't about selfishness or narcissism, it's about men being able to escape from the constant assault of everyone else's demands on them. It is more than wearisome, it is soul-killing to have a constant barrage of interactions that revolve around one-way financial transactions. And the reality is that there is antagonism between a father's masculine identity and a feminized society's expectation that he is on call to play Mr. Mom 24-7 that exists regardless of whether a man has a place to escape it or not.

Man caves should be celebrated and respected. Because the alternative is man flight.

47 comments:

JDC said...

A man-cave is useless unless the occupant is willing to say, "Get out." I like the binary thinking here as well - the man-cave is either to escape family duties OR to indulge in selfish habits. Man-cave's be raciss.

Krul said...

The interesting thing about the article is the fact that it isn't motivated by the usual mindless feminist resentment of anything specifically masculine.

Instead, the author attacks man caves for their individualism, which he thinks ought to be suppressed in favor of "community". It's rare to see that sort of old fashioned, snooty, touchy-feely communistic nonsense nowadays.

Oliver Märk said...

Long live man caves! We should not let people decide who have no idea what they are talking about. Men need areas where their mind can breath fresh air and where the usual intoxication is not present.

From: http://freedompowerandwealth.com

Steve Parker, M.D. said...

Leave the man-cave alone.
The woman of the house usually has the other 90% of it to play with: the 11 pillows on the bed, the drapes, the choice of furniture and its arrangement, wall color, carpeting, etc.

Mr.MantraMan said...

Being Alphaesque ups your woman's placement in the female hierarchy and female hierarchy is the sum of their lives. In line with this article my living room with its vaulted ceilings has an impressive and tasteful set of animal heads adorning its main wall. When a female guest shows up her little mind will scour her rolodex like brain for the appropriate culturally acceptable response that has been drilled into her by what she accepts as authority. Most of the time it will be at least one of unease to outright scorn for me being a "killer", then I stride in and confidently straighten her out in an Alpha manner. This ups my wife's place in the female hierarchy and female hierarchy is life to women.

Love your wife be an Alpha when you can.

Unknown said...

Get rid of your man-cave and replace it with a man-studio apartment in the bar/nightclub/college part of town.

Scott6584 said...

I really strongly disagree with the whole concept of a man cave. The entire house belongs to me. I will go anywhere I want. If she wants to go hide in a cave, that is on her.

To me, the concept of a man cave is a surrender to the idea that the house belongs to her, and that is something I refuse to concede. I dominate whichever room I choose to be in at any given moment. That includes the bedrooms of my children, who have no right to privacy as long as they reside in my house.

My "man cave" travels with me, and is whatever room I want it to be at that time. To acquiesce to a man cave is to give up dominion over every other part of the house and that is something I refuse to do.

Scott6584 said...

I really strongly disagree with the whole concept of a man cave. The entire house belongs to me. I will go anywhere I want. If she wants to go hide in a cave, that is on her.

To me, the concept of a man cave is a surrender to the idea that the house belongs to her, and that is something I refuse to concede. I dominate whichever room I choose to be in at any given moment. That includes the bedrooms of my children, who have no right to privacy as long as they reside in my house.

My "man cave" travels with me, and is whatever room I want it to be at that time. To acquiesce to a man cave is to give up dominion over every other part of the house and that is something I refuse to do.

Student in Blue said...

To acquiesce to a man cave is to give up dominion over every other part of the house and that is something I refuse to do.

While true, that doesn't make false what VD said at the end:

Man caves should be celebrated and respected. Because the alternative is man flight.

Not every man can pull off alpha, and that is who the man cave is for. And if there is no man cave for those who can't pull it off, then we condemn men to insanity and families to be broken up.

Cataline Sergius said...

Holy Glorf the author is a man(?) who is against the man cave?

Now SJW females have always been against them. They clearly resent it if a man even claims a thought for his own. Let alone an entire room.

I've certainly run into SJW females bitching about it before.

"No silly one. A den is a place of repose and rejuvenation. One necessary for the mental health of a proper head of the household.

Oh dear...How to explain mental health to an SJW...Nope sorry. Can't be done. If mental health doesn't come out of a Xanax bottle they can't understand it.

Look at it this way. A den is just a Safe-Space from your family. And if you are in that family dear author...Well you must admit it's quite understandable. You do appear to be a horrible person.
"

This however is the first time I've run into penis-hating-male-feminists sobbing about it.

When I was a kid, Father's Den was the room that very much reinforced his position as our pater familias.

It was the room we dared not enter without permission. Of course it was much worse when any of us were ordered to enter it because we knew we were in real trouble then. Even then we had to knock and ask permission to enter before we could enter and receive punishment.

This place that was forbidden to us for us to enter, (unless it was fearfully mandatory) created in Father's Den, a taboo that supported our view of him as the chief male and absolute head of the household.

Bard said...

Man studio near college. Now that was funny.

Bruno B. L. said...
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Bruno B. L. said...
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Bruno B. L. said...

I agree with the author (McGinley, not VD), at least partially. The concept of "man cave" is demeaning to men in two ways: first, it implies that the rest of the house is not a man's space, too; second, it is barbaric to have a "man cave" compared to the dignity of having a study. Men in the past had studies, not "man caves".

I believe one of the reasons some people are using this term is a desire to diminish men's dignity - the media keeps implying through commercials and sitcoms that men are uncivilized and dumb, like a caveman, and the proper space for a caveman is, obviously, a "man cave". We should say "no" to that: a man should have a study, if he is inclined to intellectual activities, or a workshop, if he prefers manual labor. Preferably both.

paworldandtimes said...

After all, she has the kitchen, right?

Right.

-PA

bob k. mando said...

paworldandtimes said...
Right.




wrong. she has the entire rest of the house.

which is actually the impetus for the 'man cave' in the first place, the woman having forced the man ( the man having allowed the woman to do so ) from every other room in the house except for some clothes and toiletries.

Vox is correct that the man often needs someplace where you're not constantly being leeched off of. otoh, if the man was exerting himself more in the rest of the household, all of his shit would NOT be concentrated in a single room.

it's another iteration of the "woman starts fight, man sleeps on couch" problem.

IF the woman is refusing to sleep in the same bed with you
THEN let the little psycho sleep on the couch. or fucking leave.

i knew a guy who was renting an apartment. all the furniture was his. his girlfriend moved in.

they had a fight, he spent the night on the couch.

he came in to work the next day complaining about how he didn't get much sleep as the couch was uncomfortable.

i asked him what the fuck he thought he was doing letting her chase him out of his own bed ...

he pays for the apartment, he bought the bed, she starts fight. any sane calculus would result in?

kurt9 said...

The anti-male types just want to dig the hole deeper, don't they.

MATT said...

Ther reast of the house is an assault on masculinity. It's most likely decorated entirely by the woman. And if the son and daughter have separate rooms, and each was allowed to decorate their own rooms, odds are the daughters is much more in line with the rest of the house than the boys room would ever be.

Women just hate any man believing he can exclude a woman. Even if she has no desire to be apart of the group/activity/location/etc. from which she's been excluded.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Didn't Sinatra say "Tell a woman she can't be in a club and she'll fight to get in" or something like that?

The crux of the man cave is a place women aren't allowed to go, fruit they aren't allowed to eat, etc.

Timmy3 said...

Only if you have the space, the money to decorate, and the need to escape after spending 10 hours away for work. Exactly how much time do you have to have your personal space? The past as portrayed in shows is poker night, or football night, or a workshop. The thing is many public spaces also accommodates these interests. I think a man that needs to escape won't come home.

Ingot9455 said...

Just to add to Cataline Sergius -

His story is exactly the way the Father's Den is portrayed in The Brady Bunch. If you search the episode list, there's even specifically an episode where Marcia is grounded for being caught in Mike's den without permission, past bedtime. Above and beyond its use as the place wheere the kids are called on the carpet by Dad.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

A throne room of sorts

Jeff said...

Timmy, what the hell are you talking about? Have you ever lived with a woman?

Jeff said...

Timmy, what the hell are you talking about? Have you ever lived with a woman?

ray said...

The earth surrounding large boulders is often softer than nearby soil. Clear them on the downhill and lee sides. Former garden-trowels make excellent tools for scratching out new homes. These homes will have natural air conditioning, thus absence of electricity won't seem so harsh. Hey, you'll see.

There won't be anybody to order about then of course. The castrated scum that Big Sis used to marry and manage, well, they'll be busy scouting around for their own homes in Boulder, America. :O)

Perhaps when males no longer have homes, or New Mommies to rule their houses and lives, they will start to become men again? I dunno. Worth a shot tho.

ray said...

"To me, the concept of a man cave is a surrender to the idea that the house belongs to her, and that is something I refuse to concede"


We have a winner. Gee that didn't take long, only forty years and the annihilation of three male generations.

Yes Scott, they are so Dendrite Defibrillated that they are happy to concede their OWN houses to the control of females, while defending their 'right' to cower in a little room behind the root-cellar. An astonishing feat of collective self-castration.

And yes, they WILL force you to become as emasculated as themselves, because every other male (married or not) must be as pathetic, cowardly, and hopeless as they are. Otherwise they don't end up looking like the men that, well, they ain't anyway.

You folks do not have another forty years to reach the next Truth Milestone.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Fuck off Ray

Trust said...

Predictably, a lot of people like to blame men saying they let it happen. This is beside the point

The basic purpose of marriage remains, despite the fact that it's stability has been corrupted by a pandering government.

Marriage is, in essence, a deal where men exchange their resources for a relationship with a woman. So, even in an ideal marriage, men will always be subject demands and one sided transactions. Men will always need a "safe zone" (to quote a liberal buzz word) from that. Women used to honor that because, well not only did they understand men better, driving him away risked their resource stream. Cash and prizes from the state guarantee the resources, so there is no longer any risk in depriving men of their space and the relationship aspect of marriage.

There is a reason the serpent chose to tempt the woman, a reason governments are called beasts, and a reason the beast landers to women. Eve isn't merely the first woman, she is symbolic of womanhood.

Rusty Fife said...

The whole decorated house deal is girls nesting as part of their Women's Intramural Status League.

Men's space fills up with unfinished dirty projects, which cost them cleanliness and decoration points for score.

I have a laborator and garage.

David The Good said...

"To me, the concept of a man cave is a surrender to the idea that the house belongs to her, and that is something I refuse to concede."

Agreed.

Caleb M Fennell said...
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haus frau said...

I happen to like the kitchen and it is my office.

Violet Black said...

This "soul killing constant barrage" is fascinating. Isn't this life of one-sided financial transactions the arrangement you idealize? And insist upon? Wasn't it first wave feminists who first asked if this weren't, in fact, a soul killing arrangement for everyone? And why is your household budget so disorganized that everyone is hitting dad up for money all the time? Don't you imagine that is "soul killing" for the other participants? The family lives of mra/red pill/alt right-land sound like absolute nightmares and you have the nerve to sneer at cat ladies?
And why are you manufacturing outrage over this imagined assault? No one begrudges family men personal space. I know your politics depend on men feeling put-upon, but this verges on paranoia.

Anchorman said...

Speaking as a guy who "conceded" the rest of the house, I think the man cave is needed. When I was married, I didn’t have one, because I was full-on Churchian and thought like the article’s author did. I was brainwashed to be self-sacrificial to the point that it felt indulgent to crack a beer and watch football if my children also wanted to use the TV to play a video game (after a week of video game playing).

I, and a lot of husbands/fathers, never had an area or a place to go to be left alone. And guys under stress and pressure enjoy/need periods of quiet. Churchians allows for “ladies night out” or for mom quiet time, but don’t allow guys the same courtesy.

Chest-beating and whipping the guys in miserable marriages is a great past-time for some.

I say, fight for those men who need the man cave. Don’t join in their whipping and de-masculinization. Show them the idea of a special place reserved just for dad is appropriate due to his level of sacrifice for the family. Shame the wife who refuses to respect her husband.

For crying out loud, point the damn guns in the right direction.

Cataline Sergius said...

@Stg58/Animal Mother

A throne room of sorts

Absolutely. Very much so.

Father's Den made Dad just a little less readily approachable.

It made him just a little more remote. A little more godlike.

It supported the classic three tiered leadership model. Lowest level is the Hard Nose that makes you follow the rules (eldest child in a perfect world). Higher up is the more sympathetic and nurturing and inward focused authority figure that can be appealed to. At top of the chain is the more remote and outward focused authority figure who has the final word.

A Father's Den, that children can't enter without permission strongly upheld position.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

That's what you shoot for, Cataline. I have my father's roll top desk in my office that he wrote his first three books on. When I was a kid it was a source of mystery since there were so many drawers and it was old. Even today I get the feeling sometimes that it conceals some great treasure.

Timmy3 said...

I'm not against man caves. I thought it was impractical when houses are getting smaller and less affordable. People are squeezed into smaller spaces. Most rooms are multi-purposed. Families have one television. The house is the man's castle. He should dictate what he wants in it. He should use it as he pleases. The kids can go to their rooms and study. The wife can go to the kitchen. The man should be able to watch his ball game whenever he wants. Notice how people magically disappear when the game comes on.

Dystopic said...

It's worth noting that the idea of surrendering the rest of the house to her isn't necessarily a bad one, in a more traditional setting.

It used to be that the wife was responsible for decorating, cleaning, and making guests feel welcome in the home (within the financial limits of the household). So it made sense that much of the house was her responsibility, and the choices were predominantly hers. Of course the husband could, at will, take portions of the home for his own use.

Feminists never really let go of this control. The home, they say nowadays, is theirs. The man doesn't get a say. His previous power to, at will, cede portions of the home to his control was taken away from him.

Man caves are thus a small step back in the right direction. Men reasserting their rights in the home. But they are often subsumed into this beer, bacon, and boobs buffoonery. Man caves with blinking traffic lights and Pabst Blue Ribbon signs (who drinks that filth, anyway?). It's the currently-accepted cartoonish masculinity. Still, better that than nothing, I suppose.

Anyway, in my household, my wife does have responsibility for most of the house. I neither desire it, nor have the time for it. I have my game room, my den, and my workshop. The rest is hers. But the understanding is that whenever I want or need more space in the home, it is mine to take. That seems to be a fair and traditional compromise.

ray said...

Sgt. Mommy --

Anytime you think you're ready fatboy. Anytime.

ThirdMonkey said...

For many years, my Dad built and repaired saddles as a second source of income. My mom and sister were not allowed in the saddle shop, just me, him, and the occasional customer. It smelled of leather and Copenhagen, and the radio was tuned to oldies country. A man needs a place to hang out with his sons and his friends. I keep an old saddle in my office today as a reminder. My office is for me, my sons, and my dad when he visits. If you don't like it, you can go to the bathroom and sit on the toilet with the pink seat cover and have yourself a good cry.

Eric said...

I'm not against man caves. I thought it was impractical when houses are getting smaller and less affordable. People are squeezed into smaller spaces.

New houses in the US have quite literally doubled in size since the 1970s. It's not a space problem.

Michael Maier said...

Purple Idiot: "No one begrudges family men personal space."

Demonstrably false, as per the post itself.

But keep running your mouth, fool.

LP9 Rin Integra S.I.G. said...

Man caves require proper stocking without interference, say mini mini fridge, etc., remove the trash - if he wants and even a lock on the door. Man caves are decompression zones or what women call our private time.

Victor Y said...

The problem isn't "man caves". That is a mere symptom.

Neither is it "weak men" who can not control the rest of their homes.

The root cause is WOMEN, as it were.

Given that these creatures by and large are devoid of empathy, yet alone compassion for men; the only workable solutions are:

- Living with her ONLY on your own terms.
- Abandoning women altogether. Women will fold. Inaction can be a great power.

Every single man who retreats to his "man cave" or worse loses control of his entire home is fueling this problem; by signalling that this is "normal" and "acceptable". It's not. It's outrageous.

Women will not change. What is frightening is that men might not either. Drunk on his lust for the broad-hipped / narrow-shouldered sex, his judgement shrouded by endless projection of his beautiful sentimentality on one who can never comprehend yet alone appreciate it; he may never realize how thoroughly abused he is.

Subversive Saint said...

Long live the man cave. In a world that has done away with the male-only social club, the man cave is the next best thing.

Subversive Saint said...

Long live the man cave. In a world that has done away with the male-only social club, the man cave is the next best thing.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Ray,

Blah blah blah go fuck yourself.

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