Tuesday, July 7, 2015

Two types of female laughter

SciVo understood what I was pointing out about why it's foolish to try to attract women by making them laugh:
When women say that they want a guy that makes them laugh, it's practically a tautology: they want a guy that they want. They have the causality backward -- they laugh because they're attracted to him, not the other way around -- and probably most of them aren't even aware of it. Of course, laughter is only a sign of attraction if they're laughing with you and not at you, so the sign of approval elicited by clowning around is a fake one that won't lead anywhere.
This is correct. And it's important to distinguish between attracted laughter and amused laughter. The former is when the girl laughs at anything an attractive man says and plays with her hair. The latter is when she's watching a comedian do standup.

The fact that a woman laughs at something Michael Macintyre or Frankie Boyle says does not indicate that she is sexually attracted to him. Nor will she be attracted to you if you manage to amuse her in some manner by your clowning. In fact, the genuinely funnier you are, the less likely it is that a woman's laughter means that she is attracted to you.

38 comments:

Crowhill said...

Vague images from old movies are coming to mind -- of the male character being a jerk and the female character saying, "you're funny."

En-sigma said...

The ability to make people laugh can be disarming, and it can help in business if you have the proper sense of humor for the situation. Circus clowns don't have groupies.

VD said...

The ability to make people laugh can be disarming, and it can help in business if you have the proper sense of humor for the situation. Circus clowns don't have groupies.

No one is saying it's always a bad thing, the point is that the ability to make people laugh is not something women find attractive in its own right.

Rex Little said...

I suspect that the type of humor makes a big difference. Physical comedy--clowning--probably isn't attractive, but what if a man spices up his conversation with witty remarks? My guess is that this does increase his appeal, though like any spice it backfires if overused.

Ron said...

they laugh because they're attracted to him, not the other way around

Yes, when I originally saw this comment it was obvious truth.

I observed this a while ago while working as a waiter in a restaurant. Saw an attractive couple sitting down, the man was a tall red haired jock, seemed like an OK person. Clearly strong willed and confident. He seemed like the sort of man that was used to things going right for him and getting things done. The girl was cute, but nothing particular stood out from her past that.

Now the girl was hanging on the jock's every word. She was absolutely fascinated with his existence. I could not hear the conversation, but I knew I didn't need to, from the look on his face, it was obvious that he could not possibly be saying anything that would generate so much interest in the girl or hilarity.

I am not saying he was stupid. For all I know he was a genius, having been around geniuses I know that they come in all shapes and sizes. But I got the impression from his facial expression that he was simply making small talk. He did not seem particularly excited or amused, but mildly engaged. It was clear that the girl was laughing at his jokes and small talk the way a lesser man would be absolutely engaged with a beautiful woman speaking about her different colored nails.

praetorian said...

It's as if a million minutes of my former approach to landing women suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced...

VD said...

Physical comedy--clowning--probably isn't attractive, but what if a man spices up his conversation with witty remarks?

It depends. AMOG-witty or butthurt gamma clown witty? I'm not funny, but I am witty and cruel. Women find it attractive when I verbally slice and dice someone in front of them.

On the other hand, I have a very funny friend. He is witty and makes everyone laugh. That doesn't seem to make him any more attractive, although it does get him an amount of attention.

Dystopic said...

In my experience, it's being funny is functionally neutral. Do it if you want. If you're genuinely funny, it's not going to hurt you any. But it's not the magic path to poon, either. Like Vox says, it does nothing. Women don't care. Power. Money. Confidence. Game... those matter. Humor doesn't.

On the other hand, if you're not funny, it will definitely work against you. Unfunny Gammas are all too common. Learn to tell the difference between people laughing at your jokes, and people laughing at YOU.

En-sigma said...

Not disagreeing at all. I was a clown as a kid - my son is one too - but I learned that clown equals fool in anyone's mind. Fools do not generate tingles. My son and I have had this discussion a couple of times, but it takes time to refine your sense of humor.

I just hope to keep her off the stripper pole and him out of the clown car. I think if I can accomplish that....well, it will be a good start.

Cail Corishev said...

As a result of this: if you scale back the humor, limiting it to a small barb or two, and a girl laughs more than it seems to deserve, then you know it's on. She's laughing because she's turned on, not because she's entertained; so start watching for other tells like playing with her hair or touching you.

If you're entertaining her, it'll be a lot harder to tell whether her laughter means anything.

David-093 said...

If she's laughing at something you said, it's a good sign if she twirls her hair, playfully slaps you on the arm or shoulder, and/or says "you're a jerk!"

Rek. said...

"you're a jerk!"

Correct. Be a douche, an asshole or a jerk, it's all the humor you need. Don't confound medium and attitude.
Teasing (Energy and delivery) is game applied humor.

Met an old acquaintance, she told me she was having some problem finishing her thesis. I responded with "And I thought you were the smart type."She laughed and called me an asshole.

David-093 said...

"I responded with "And I thought you were the smart type."She laughed and called me an asshole."

That's excellent. I had a similar episode once at work. The secretary was talking to the Pres and VP about how she successfully handled a difficult purchase a customer wanted. Everybody was applauding and congratulating her for it, so I reply with, "Wow, [Secretary], you're smarter than anyone ever imagined!" She paused for a moment, then burst out laughing and said "I fucking hate you!"

hank.jim said...

Since women are NOT funny, it is important to note that their lack of humor means they won't often digest humor in the same way men dish it out. Men are humorous to prove they can do comedy or gain attention. Women don't know you're auditioning to be their romantic interest. Its a form of peacocking like showing your feathers.

David-093 said...

"Since women are NOT funny, it is important to note that their lack of humor means they won't often digest humor in the same way men dish it out."

Women seem to respond most strongly to humor that's "shocking", and not because it's actually funny but because it displays fearlessness and boldness, which on the whole matters more to them. Racist jokes can get good reactions out of them if you don't look like you're a neckbeard/skinhead Stormfront or sound like you actually want to give the Final Solution a second try.

johnthefaster said...

@David-093: Racist jokes and gay jokes were quite fruitful around feminist English-lit major types. Jokes about fat women didn't fair too poorly, either.

The key is for it to be not socially acceptable, but also not socially retarded to be repeating. Think of a joke you would tell at a bar with your buddies over a few beers. Being socially retarded is not being fearless; it's just being socially retarded.

@Rek:

Yes, every man has figured out that being called a jerk (or worse), or even being called a creep, isn't really a problem. All that matters is that she's bothering to call you something negative at all. Upon being called that, immediately Agree & Amplify.

Of course, none of this works if you aren't actually attractive, and if you are, it's frankly annoying to have women tell you you're a jerk and think that's flirting, and it's annoying to have them flirty-slap your arm.

Rek. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rek. said...

"attractive"
What does that mean? The attractive trope makes no sense. It's such a fluid concept.

"tell you you're a jerk and think that's flirting, and it's annoying to have them flirty-slap your arm"
Are you a natural by any chance or simply a tall, good-looking athelte?

johnthefaster said...

@Rek.: I probably am a Greater Beta nowadays. In a just world I would be yet another Delta. I do clock in over 6 foot. I'm not particularly otherwise amazing. In my best days of running game, I was overweight and had a beer gut.

"Being attractive" is mostly not about looks. A great deal of it is about body language, much of which can be learned behaviour. A good looking, 6'2" athlete in a still photo can project gamma body language in real life as he slumps his shoulders, doesn't look people in the eye, and the build of his body communicates "I do nothing of value with my body, and thus I have spindly, pale forearms, and my waist is as wide as my shoulders because I poison my body with cheap tobacco and cheap alcohol."

You can experiment with this. Find a guy who is an obvious omega or gamma. Ape his body language for a day. Watch how women respond. Now find a guy who is an obvious natural. Ape his body language and how he speaks, his depth of voice. See what happens.

Corvinus said...

Women seem to respond most strongly to humor that's "shocking", and not because it's actually funny but because it displays fearlessness and boldness, which on the whole matters more to them. Racist jokes can get good reactions out of them if you don't look like you're a neckbeard/skinhead Stormfront or sound like you actually want to give the Final Solution a second try.

@David-093
Yeah, I've noticed that too. It's along the lines of what Vox mentioned about being not just witty but cruel as well. Making racist / sexist / homophobic jokes in this day and age automatically gives you a cruel air as long as it isn't butthurt.

Heartiste wrote about this as well.

When I was Omega, I could at times turn on the comedian, but I did notice that I only actually got attraction signs from girls on rare occasions when I was both cruel and indifferent along with the funny. I've managed to switch to doing it that way in the last few years.

And absolutely do NOT rip on yourself, like many comedians do. (Unless you want a sample of what amused but unattracted laughter sounds like.)

The key is for it to be not socially acceptable, but also not socially retarded to be repeating.

@johnthefaster
Yup. If they're try-hard and beaten to death, they lose their charm. Probably one major reason the Marx Brothers and Three Stooges aren't really all that funny.

On the other hand, if you're not funny, it will definitely work against you. Unfunny Gammas are all too common. Learn to tell the difference between people laughing at your jokes, and people laughing at YOU.

@Dystopic
Compare Steven Colbert and Jon Stewart. I find Stewart funny at times, primarily because of his goofy expressions and reactions to non-PC things others say -- that is, Stewart is a good example of a Gamma clown who's fun to laugh at rather than with -- but I don't find Colbert funny at all.

VD said...

What does that mean? The attractive trope makes no sense. It's such a fluid concept.

Not at all. It simply means "the opposite sex wants to have sex with it".

johnthefaster said...

Many guys (especially gammas) seem to make the mistake of thinking that women are attracted in the same ways that men are. Since your average gamma spends his time consuming gigabytes upon gigabytes of pornography, both in stills and videos, he comes to these conclusions:

1. That women, too, are attracted to either still photos of conventionally-attractive men. (They are not.)

2. That women are attracted to how men appear in pornography. (They are not. The pornography is produced for male consumption.)

3. That if they could just have equal SMV rank in terms of appearance to the women they want to secure, all would be well.

Looking better certainly doesn't hurt. But imagine, for a moment, a woman who looked beautiful, but who moved and acted exactly like a man. As soon as she started speaking, she had a voice deeper than a jazz soloist. A man's attraction to that would diminish.

Likewise, women are fairly open to men of average looks. If his behaviour is not masculine, and if as soon as he opens his voice, he talks, sounds, and acts like a woman, or like an immature pre-adolescent boy, she will be unable to stay attracted.

Rek. said...

Not at all. It simply means "the opposite sex wants to have sex with it".

Obvisouly. Boyhood emotional scars talking. Attractive sounds like physically good-looking to me. Emotional demons really.


Also I do mostly cold approach pick up and I get the discomfortable feeling that success is mostly a function of prequalification. Present yourself as an individual with an attractive allure, make a good impression, get your first 3 seconds right and that's it. Makes one wonder at what point game has any relevance.


Do you have a list of characteristics that a man can work on to make himself more attractive? That would be really helpful.


I probably am a Greater Beta nowadays.
Thought as much. You came off as a Roissy's Alpha in your post. What do you think has helped you most in securing your sociosexual Greater Beta spot, what steps did you take to transcend deltaness?

Double E said...

Yeah, while it can be a DHV to be able to make everybody laugh, or to say something witty and humorous in response to shit tests, its not the physical act of laughing that would make a girl attracted to a guy. It is his ability to be commanding in a social situation, or appear nonplussed and glib in the face of female and male challenges that would actually be the attractor (which can be done without actually making them laugh).

Dystopic said...

@Corvinus: "Compare Steven Colbert and Jon Stewart. I find Stewart funny at times, primarily because of his goofy expressions and reactions to non-PC things others say -- that is, Stewart is a good example of a Gamma clown who's fun to laugh at rather than with -- but I don't find Colbert funny at all."

Agreed on basic premise, except that Jon Stewart doesn't make me laugh at him, or his humor. Instead, I get this urge to punch that smug little sh*t repeatedly in the face. I can't be the only one...

johnthefaster said...

@Double E, if one does want to make people laugh, focus on making the men around (especially high value men) laugh. Women, and their entertainment needs, should be invisible to you.

Women will try to figure out why the men are laughing with each other and try to figure out who's ruling the roost there.

@Rek, you ask good questions - I'll think about them and comment later. For what it's worth, I didn't really rise from the ranks from gamma -> delta -> beta or something like that. I've just always been the way I am. I have had times of depression, etc. when I acted like a gamma and I got results like a gamma. Truly a terrifying thing.

David-093 said...

@Corvinus

"Yeah, I've noticed that too. It's along the lines of what Vox mentioned about being not just witty but cruel as well. Making racist / sexist / homophobic jokes in this day and age automatically gives you a cruel air as long as it isn't butthurt."

Yup. Lefty chicks are still women and that means they get turned on by the same things normal women do. Telling "bad" jokes, with the right tone, attitude, and body language, is still very appealing to them, no matter what their political persuasion or how much they claim it matters to them.

And pretty much nothing is off-limits, including friends. I offhandedly referred to these two girls' friend as their "fat friend" and they found it hysterical with the cursory "oh my gosh you're so mean" once they could breathe again. All it takes is a zero-fucks-given attitude and a bit of cruelty and they eat that shit up, even if it's towards people they proclaim to "looooove". Ah the fickle nature of the fairer sex...

Double E said...

@Double E, if one does want to make people laugh, focus on making the men around (especially high value men) laugh. Women, and their entertainment needs, should be invisible to you.

Women will try to figure out why the men are laughing with each other and try to figure out who's ruling the roost there.


Yeah, that's exactly what I was getting at.

SciVo said...

@ Rex Little: Physical comedy--clowning--probably isn't attractive, but what if a man spices up his conversation with witty remarks?

A simple irony should suffice, like "At least it isn't too busy" while you're waiting for a table. I do that kind of thing every now and then just to test my social standing.

SciVo said...

Of course sometimes people are just not in a good mood; but all else being equal, I use that test to gauge whether a friend actually respects me, and whether a stranger is predisposed to like me.

I'm satisfied with a polite chuckle from a leader. If the best they can do is a grimace, then it's time to examine my behavior.

SciVo said...

Incidentally, one of the most valuable concepts that I've read here is that of "gamma pride," which I perceive as glass-jaw narcissism. I've been working on it without understanding, but I understand now that my task is to lay a foundation of humility that is strong enough to support an edifice of confidence.

I wouldn't kick a friend to the curb for not respecting me as much as I'd like. That's just something to take into account and work on.

Just to be clear.

Julian said...

Crusty the Clown claimed to "get broads".

Perhaps it was the TV show though.

SciVo said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
totenhenchen said...

It simply means "the opposite sex wants to have sex with it".

But, as Rollo Tomassi informs us, what women find attractive isn't necessarily what they find sexually arousing due to their pluralistic sexual strategy. Understanding the difference has been immensely valuable to me.

Rex Little said...

Lefty chicks are still women and that means they get turned on by the same things normal women do. Telling "bad" jokes, with the right tone, attitude, and body language, is still very appealing to them, no matter what their political persuasion or how much they claim it matters to them.

What about rape jokes? SJW types express an absolute horror at those, and insist that any man who tells them is pond scum. Has anyone here told such a joke to a lefty woman? If so, how did it go over?

(I'm not about to try the experiment myself; I'm too old to change my game.)

Kyle Smith said...

My longer statement got deleted. Anyway, the last statement is a statistical tautology masquerading as an insight.

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