Friday, July 31, 2015

Delta Perspective: Don’t put up with it

There’s no excuse for a woman to mock, berate, nag, nitpick, or otherwise shame her husband or boyfriend in if she has any desire to stay in the relationship with the man. Gammas take perpetual abuse from their women, and many Deltas do too.

Put a stop to it your life immediately. If you are married or otherwise in a long term relationship be prepared for a fight when you start to stand up to her. First, clean up your own act and take the lead. If you berate her for no reason stop it. So clean up your social media if need be, and immediately stop being petty for no reason. End the name calling, insults, and passive aggressive behavior. If she’s mocked you on social media tell her you want all of it removed. If you are dating or married then this is non-negotiable. If she balks, then explain to her you are now seeking out a new girlfriend who will show you respect. She’ll probably do as you ask, but if she doesn’t she has contempt for you and good riddance.

If you are married then the stakes are higher and you are in for a fight. Explain to your wife that this is not unacceptable in your household and she is not treating you with respect. Put her on the spot; specifically ask her why she refuses to respect her husband by airing dirty laundry and insulting him in public and private. If she still refuses I have some bad news for you: your marriage is in serious jeopardy and I suggest start getting prepared for a divorce. One of the top signs of an impending divorce is that one or more spouses have contempt for the other. In other words, if she continually insults you in public and private and refuses to apologize for it she has contempt for you and she will soon be gone.

In all likelihood there won’t be a divorce or breakup over this issue. Many times it’s an escalating problem in which the wife or girlfriend didn’t do it very much at the start of the relationship, but the man just let her get way with more and more until she’s critiquing every little thing he does and complains non-stop. What’s the best way to stop the fault-finding? If you are in the middle of doing something and she’s nitpicking it, stop what you are doing and hand it to her then quietly walk off. The first time will be explosive and then explain to her that if she nitpicks you again in the middle of a project it becomes her responsibility. It will stop overnight. If she airs dirty laundry ask her why she’s doing it. If she’s insulting you unfairly ask for an apology, even in front of others if she continues the behavior.

The attitude to take is one of firm confidence when making this change and be prepared for her to be shocked, angry, but ultimately happier. What sort of woman does not want to respect the man she is with? Who wants to be known as a nag, or bitchy? Women feel secure when they know that their boyfriends and husbands won’t take shit from people, even them.

53 comments:

Shimshon said...

"...specifically ask her why she refuses..."

Asking is a form of negotiation. Don't ask. Otherwise, good advice.

JP said...

I can vouch for the effectiveness of this advice. My wife is the sweetest person you'll ever meet. And she's pretty levelheaded and well-adjusted, but sometimes the instincts take over and she'll do one of the things mentioned above. I usually just give her a look and she immediately understands that I will not put up with it. Or I hand over the thing I was working on. Or I leave the scene without saying a word. But to be fair, it rarely happens. And I believe that's because we love AND respect each other.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

John Stossel once threw cake at his wife in public when she joined the party-goers in taunting him for his newly found libertarian beliefs.

Crowhill said...

As a young married man I noticed that younger married women tended to be nicer to their husbands than older married women. (At least that is what I observed.) I was somewhat shocked when older married women in my conservative church tended to mock and make fun of their husbands.

I figured part of the reason was that the men were just getting tired and didn't have the energy to put a stop to it.

That is the path to castration. You must nip it in the bud -- every time it raises its ugly head.

Log said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Corvinus said...

One thing many men may not realize is that women do all this as shit tests, which are an instinctive thing on the woman's part when she's not sure what your real sociosexual rank is. Yet another reason why a man should not berate or snipe back at the woman as if he was a woman himself.

With ALPHAs, of course, shit tests are much less common, but BETAs (and, often, Game-aware synthetic ALPHAs who still give off a BETA vibe) will have to put up with them regularly, especially if they tangle with hotter women who instinctively expect to be paired with an ALPHA. But all women do it.

The man's failing shit tests, of course, causes them to escalate over time. And actual contempt on the woman's part occurs when the man has failed enough of them that she now recognizes him as Gamma, and her dumping him is not far off.

Jourdan said...

Delta Man, your heart is in the right place, but your pieces are just too glib. It's just not as easy nor as cut-and-dried as you lay it out.

What if this man has two sons? Yeah, "get ready for a divorce", right, good idea. Yes, on one level, you are correct, but that isn't an answer. The man has to find a way to handle the matter because divorce = two sons, lost for life.

I'm guessing you are not a father? Is that the issue?

Corvinus said...

@Jourdan

I'm guessing he means to prepare for a worst-case scenario where the wife files. In the meantime, obviously, the husband involved should learn how to handle shit tests / stand up for himself / quit apologizing / walking away and let her stew etc.

Delta Man said...

Jourdan, if telling your wife to stop insulting you on social media, to her friends and family, and when you two are alone causes her to file for divorce, it was coming anyways. Walking on eggshells around her as she hurls insults to "save the marriage" is a losing strategy.

Delta Man said...

Crowhill, you are correct as this behavior tends to accumulates over time. She will pay attention to your reaction when she tests your resolve on the issue and learn from it.

MycroftJones said...

I wouldn't have said it the way Jourdan did, but I had the same thought; what about when there are children involved, and you are weak financially.

Delta Man said...

MycroftJones, do you realize the insanity of that position? That the possible threat of divorce because you stood up for yourself is a legitimate reason for a husband to take verbal abuse from a wife.

I'll say it again: If your wife doesn't give two shits that you don't like it when she insults you she has contempt for you as a person.

MycroftJones said...

People can get into wierd situations due to religiously induced behaviors, Delta Man. Also, women will use the whole "be polite in public" expectation to be abusive, never expecting you to be firm and blunt with her in front of the children. Or in public. Women specifically use an audience to exploit the natural politeness rules.

Personally, I solve the contempt issue by moving out. And maintaining a separate bed. And I stopped caring about putting her in her place in front of the children. When they are little they don't understand, they always side with their mom. And with social workers hovering around, that is a bad scenario.

We don't just have a problem with women misbehaving; we have a whole government funded system geared to support women in misbehavior.

I'm in Canada. A couple years ago a woman shot her husband and collected the insurance money. Her husband was 50 feet away. She claimed she "thought he was a bear". No charges were pressed.

A few years ago, a sixteen year old girl had a gangbang outside of a rave. By Canadian law, the older men committed statutory rape. Noone was charged with that. What happened, the government went after those who gathered the evidence of this crime and shared it. Charged them with kiddie porn. In Canada, if you collect evidence of a woman's promiscuity, the government will go after you. Woman has the right to sleep with whoever she wants, steal, and kill. At this point, despite its violence, Africa is looking like a more sane option.

Basically, collect evidence of a crime by photograph, and be charged with a crime yourself. That is the way in Canada. Noones feelings must be hurt.

MycroftJones said...

In addition, four years ago a Canadian judge ruled, in a rather long ruling, that Canadian obligations under the UN treaties overrules the Charter of Rights, including the right to religious freedom. The judge specifically outlined the obligation to ensure and promote the "equality" of women as one of the UN treaty obligations that overrules religious freedom. This is all down in writing. It was a lengthy ruling concerning some Mormon Fundamentalists.

Corvinus said...

Also, women will use the whole "be polite in public" expectation to be abusive, never expecting you to be firm and blunt with her in front of the children. Or in public.

@MycroftJones
My instinct if that happens is to calmly get my stuff together and leave. Not say anything to her, not even look at her... make it clear that I'm done talking to her unless she stops that crap.

And above all, no apologies.

Never, ever be afraid to walk.

It sounds to me as if you're completely beaten down and hopeless. But women are less likely to seek a divorce if their husband starts showing a backbone. It's completely counterintuitive to your mindset I know, but you have to realize this.

Owen said...

I'm backing Delta in this (vice Jourdan and Mycroft). The contempt is a lack of respect.

It's no different than negotiating desire. You're just negotiating respect. Badly.

As a guy who is on the rebound from the frivorce from a disrespectful and utterly contemptable woman (at times), I will say this.

I may have been able to buy a year or two longer at the expense of the last bit of dignity I had, but the rebound would've taken longer and there's no guarantee it wouldn't have been far worse the longer I stayed in the house with a woman beguiled by rebellion and animosity.

This doesn't touch how my sons now view me vs how they did before and would have had I stayed a good Churchian.

I realize jourdan et al aren't saying stay churchian. But there's not a big difference between that and not sticking up for your dignity when the woman you love and supposedly loves you treats you terribly.

MycroftJones said...

Corvinus, not hopeless at all. I know what I'm up against. As per Sun Tzu, that puts me halfway toward victory. As for the way I handled the disrespect, I did exactly what you said. I thought I was writing more clearly than I was.

MycroftJones said...

Maybe to clarify: not hopeless about my marriage. Larger issues; if it takes a village to raise a child, it takes an entire society to make a woman good. How to form communities in which to raise children where community norms make it fairly easy to maintain relationships and raise children up right. Thanks to what I've learnt here and throughout the red pill sphere, my daughter comes home, I hear her stories, and I know who is doing what. Almost always she comes back to me later: "how did you know it would turn out that way, or that so and so was doing this and that" There are powerful forces trying to rip down any and all sexual barriers for children, and public school is like a fish tank for the predators.

de ti said...

The main reason a wife/GF disrespects a man is because she is testing him to see what she can get away with. She keeps doing it because she can get away with it.

This is why wives and GFs do this -- because they've learned they can, and because the man never stands up to her. He's responding to the implied threat she's making: "If you stand up to me, if you confront me, if you tell me to stop, then it will be NO MORE SEX FOR YOU and I will BREAK UP WITH YOU."

The man's standing up to her says: "So? Go ahead and break up. Go ahead and cut me off. Fuck you."

That's why it usually works and there are no breakups or divorces. He stood up to her. he showed himself worthy of her respect. If she does break up with him or divorce him after he stands up to her, the relationship was too far gone and nothing he did or said would save it anyway.

Corvinus said...

As for the way I handled the disrespect, I did exactly what you said. I thought I was writing more clearly than I was.

Okay, good... that's probably the most important point: to not fall all over yourself apologizing like a cuckservative politician.

As you're married to her, though, you may have to do more than that. Unfortunately, I'm not married, and therefore not qualified to give such advice.

MycroftJones said...

deti "no sex" is a useless threat for certain religions of the book, since women don't get sexual exclusivity of the man.

The bigger threat is "I will scream like a psycho in public and convince a crowd of onlookers you were assaulting me, or spread rumors until you are a social pariah". I haven't had to deal with that one in more than a decade, but I remember it clearly.

Cail Corishev said...

Delta Man didn't say you should ever seek divorce. He said if your wife is treating you with disrespect, then you should expect divorce, because it's probably just a matter of time. No woman wants to be married to a man she doesn't respect; so she'll stay just as long as she feels like she has no other choice -- and her hamster will run non-stop, trying to convince her she'd be better off without you.

If you don't want to end up divorced -- and most likely lose your children -- you need to face that reality and do something about it. Refusing to believe it won't keep it from happening. Submitting to her and trying to make her happy won't keep it from happening: it might delay it while she enjoys the bribes and ass-kissing for a while, but it'll make it more certain in the long run because it'll obliterate whatever respect for you she still had.

The only thing that might reverse the situation is standing up for yourself and taking a position of dominance. It might not work, but you have nothing to lose at that point. And it just might work.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

One big bit of advice I have to offer is to not be afraid of your wife. No matter what she says, no matter what she does, she cannot harm you. So if she cries, throws a fit, or even physically attacks you, you should not bend over to her demands.

Treat her like you would treat a child because she is acting like a child. It's really that simple.

Jourdan said...

Cail, as usual, is correct. However, when one is a father the "it might delay it while she enjoyes the bribes and the ass-kissing for a while" means losing one's children at ages 3 and 5 and losing them at 13 and 15, it's worth it. Under the former scenario, you'll never be anything other than the "bio-dad". Under the latter scenarios, you're their father, for life, even if she immediately re-marries. And, note as well, if she immediately re-marries when the kids are 3 and 5, not only are you just "bio-dad" there is a not-insignificant chance the new husband may become the "father" in the children's eyes and hearts.

In short: kids change EVERYTHING in this analysis. Yes, Delta Man is right, if this is happening, the marriage is dead, and divorce will happen, at some point. But even though this fact is well-known and it's horrific effect way too well-known to hundreds of thousands of married men, it is also evident that these men are putting up with it.

I submit that this is not necessarily evidence of weakness. I know many, many men who have consciously chosen as a tactical matter to remain in such a marriage, and endure the humiliation, to remain the father of their children. I can't tell you how many times a month I hear from a fellow 40-something say something like "two more years til Tyler graduates" or "3 more years of this shit".

Assuming these men don't know what the fuck they're up to and just need to stand up to their misbehaving women is delusional. The women are also well-aware that the children are the issue. They also very knowingly use them in most cases to get what they want. In modern culture, divorce means the woman merely loses her already-judged pathetic husband, while the man loses his family.

I heard a guy speak about driving by his house at 10pm one evening early this week so he could catch a glimpse of his two children, and how devastated he was to find the curtains drawn.

I know, red pill, mariage 2.0. I get it. I really do. But this is the reality. All the understanding of the shitty cultural situation in the world doesn't matter when you have children. When people say "I would do anything for my son/daughter" they generally really do fucking mean that, up to and including putting up with a sham marriage to a bitch for as long as possible in order to retain their children.

Delta Man said...

Jourdan, saying that a man taking verbal abuse to the point of humiliation from his wife isn't weakness but tactical is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read about marriage.

This brilliant tactic won't help the children but instead teach them that abusive relationships are normal.

liberranter said...

... specifically ask her why she refuses to respect her husband by airing dirty laundry and insulting him in public and private.

Fuck the "asking why." You don't care why. Disrespect is disrespect, and it's inexcusable, no matter what her excuses for it might be. Tell her to knock it off RIGHT NOW. If she has posted disrespectful things about you on social media, tell her to remove it RIGHT NOW and that you will stand over her shoulder and watch her do it. DO NOT trust her to do it on her own.

If she balks, tell her that you're giving her sixty seconds to reconsider, or you pull the nuclear trigger. I guarantee you that all you have to is start pulling that trigger and she will back down IMMEDIATELY.

I say all of this from practical experience. Give her ANY leeway or maneuver room whatsoever to disrespect you and she will never stop. After learning this the hard way in my failed first marriage, I have since learned that the sooner you CRUSH disrespect, the sweeter and smoother things will be almost immediately.

Corvinus said...

Assuming these men don't know what the fuck they're up to and just need to stand up to their misbehaving women is delusional.

@Jourdan
When standing up to a woman is considered a fringe belief that is only found in badthink corners of the Web like AG, Heartiste, and Roosh -- meaning that the only men who will still do it in mainstream society are natural Alphas -- and when it seems every guy I know parrots "happy wife, happy life", are you still going to insist that it's "delusional" to not postulate that, just maybe, the vast majority of husbands have been given rotten advice on how to handle women? By their family, the teevee, and the totally degenerate broader culture?

Another point is that because of this, shit tests are going to be considerably more intense than they'd be, say, in 1950s America. Women are getting to the point where they expect a man to cave in, apologize at her, and otherwise kiss her butt whenever she raises a storm. Don't you think that this could also play a role in women's bad behavior?

We have to remember that women are the reactive sex... they react to what we men do.

Delta Man said...

Asking her why isn't to debate the issue, it's to put her on the spot and then correct. It's the same reason you ask a child why they did something wrong, then discipline. It makes them realize their justification is fallacious and they need to change their behavior.

VD said...

I submit that this is not necessarily evidence of weakness. I know many, many men who have consciously chosen as a tactical matter to remain in such a marriage, and endure the humiliation, to remain the father of their children.

It is not evidence of weakness, it is proof of weakness. Consciously choosing weakness doesn't make it strong.

Jourdan said...

VD - That is incorrect. It is consciously choosing pain for a greater good. That is strength.

Unknown said...

m

Unknown said...

When you're old and married, just ignore the shit tests and the wife will fade away. Just treat her as the maid/cook/ washer woman she should be and genrally ignore her, then do your own thing. If she gets real testy, escalate and show how ridiculous she is acting. Then go visit your mistress for some understanding and love.

What's that? you don't have a mistress? Your problem, buddy, not mine! And, no I don't believe I'll end up in Hell. Besides, God's played enough bad jokes on men; he owes us----Big Time!

MycroftJones said...

Jourden, putting up with shit is a sign of weakness, not strength. It shows more strength than caving in and blubbering like a baby, but that is as much as one can recommend it. When you are strong, you don't have to put up with stuff. Own your weakness; weakness is a real thing, and acting strong when you aren't, can backfire. But don't dress it up and call it "strength".

The Bible says a contentious wife is like a leaky roof. It irritates and inflames you until you feel like going crazy. Christians can't divorce, but the Bible gives us divorce exactly so we can toss a rebellious wife out on her ass. Or if she owns the house, walk away and leave her to her own devices.

MycroftJones said...

At the poker table, you can lose even if you have the winning hand, if you are in a position of weakness (short stacked).

VD said...

That is incorrect. It is consciously choosing pain for a greater good. That is strength.

No, that is endurance. Stop rationalizing failure. That's part of what puts one in a position of permanent weakness.

Student in Blue said...

Delta Man, do you consider this post to be applicable to female coworkers as well? If not, why not?

jeffrey takada said...

A timely topic as I'm in the process of separating from my wife (and by extension, beloved young daughters) for this very reason. I felt for a very long time that it was my duty to stay and all "for the kids" but the discussions here, among other places, caused me to step back and see that the LAST thing I wanted my daughter seeing was their mother emasculating their only male role model. It would ensure the vicious cycle that my wife witnessed as her weak and hen-pecked father went to his grave after being driven out of the house he paid for and into a studio apt. Well when he passed it dawned on me that this is the life my wife was setting up for me and, in the future, my girls. I won't be an object lesson in weakness to them nor a cautionary tale to my sons-in-law, even at the price of having reduce access to them. When I "confronted" (as women call it) my wife, she basically admitted she hadn't loved me for a long time (at least the years that our sex life was dead, probably before). So I learned something new! Because her respect for me will not grow out of whole cloth, her expectations of married life vary wildly from mine (for example, married couples have sex and fathers are important for daughters - BS statements that she chalks up to "cultural difference" of our international marriage), and for the sake of my girls, I am now moving on. Literally the hardest thing I have ever done in my life. Just this last week. But now I feel like I can regain sanity and don't have to see the pathos in the eyes of my family regarding my married life.

@ Jourdan re your comments about age of children at divorce, I've read that younger children deal much better psychologically with the separation, though it's never easy. This fact, on top of the "do I really want to expose my kids to a crazy harridan emasculating me for show for the next 10 years" tends to militate against your argument to "stay with it for the kids."

Jourdan said...

I disagree, Vox. I know men who have chosen to live in "dead" marriages with women who no longer love them, and all that entails, because they know if they leave they will simply lose their children. I've seen the adult children of these men (and a few women) come to have very wonderful, rich and appreciative relationships with their father, because they know very well what their father put up with to continue to be there for them.

I understand the position of the vast majority of the posters here and for the large part I agree with them. I certainly manage my own marriage under principles that would find wide acceptance here. These sometimes make my wife very angry, leading to some really ugly scenes, but everyone here knows an angry woman is vastly preferable to one who knows she can walk all over you.

Vox, you speak of failure, yet you must recognize that no matter how strong, virtuous and Game-armed a man may be, at the end of the day, however good he is, no man, no human being, has 100% control over the actions of another. One cannot characterize a man as a failure for working to salvage that which is most important to him, his children, due to the failure of his wife.

It's true that some men deserve this fate more than others, we all know that. There are men in this situation who richly deserve the hell they've bought.

But there are many who do not.

Let me ask a hypothetical: Would you remain in a marriage in which the woman had lost respect and love for you and generally treated you with contempt, including in public, if you knew for certain that to leave that marriage meant the end of your ability to live with your children?

To me the answer to this terrible situation is clear: duty and love for children demands it. (and, no, exposing the children to this situation is not teaching them that this is a good thing, quite the opposite; they'll see it for what it is and they'll know the score. Yes, mom will still be mom--it's pretty hard to not love your mom--but in every case like this I've seen the children once around 12 or so know the score and know very well that Dad is taking one for the team.)

Let me just add, in case this isn't clear, that if we're talking actual abuse issues--and, sadly, I've seen some of this as well, I suspect it's more common than people realize--the analysis changes, and the more extreme the abuse, the more radically the analysis changes.

Double E said...

Vox, you speak of failure, yet you must recognize that no matter how strong, virtuous and Game-armed a man may be, at the end of the day, however good he is, no man, no human being, has 100% control over the actions of another. One cannot characterize a man as a failure for working to salvage that which is most important to him, his children, due to the failure of his wife.

the 'failure' is not the marriage ending. You can't prevent that from happening if the woman decides to do it. The failure is tolerating the disrespectful behavior.

there is no magic solution that will allow you to always keep your respect, your marriage, and custody of your children. You can only control yourself, but purposefully being weak and giving up your self respect because you are worried about losing the marriage or children isn't strength, it is fear which is weakness.

The only issue is that you think in that instance the weakness is good since it supposedly accomplishes a goal you value. Except it doesn't - the woman still can and will leave if they want. Some will leave no matter what you do, so you might as well keep your respect. And if they stick around for years even after you have given up your self respect and conceded defeat, then that is evidence that they most likely would not have left if you had acted out of strength.

Delta Man said...

Student in Blue, yes but you have to handle it differently. I'll write a post on the topic.

ce8d632a-647c-11e3-94d3-000bcdcb2996 said...

ATTENTION: Spread this message far and wide, copy and paste it and send it to EVERY MALE you know!

We men must boycott marriage, and never marry. Why? Because there are ZERO benefits for men in marriage. If you get married, there is at least a 50 percent chance that your wife will divorce you, kidnap your children from you, and steal all your money in divorce.

So, what are the alternatives to marriage?
1. Learn how to game and seduce women
2. Fuck prostitutes
3. Masturbate to porn
etc

Did you know that it's cheaper to fuck a prostitute once a week than to maintain a wife? You will get bored of fucking your wife after the first six months of marriage but with a prostitute you can fuck a new one every time.

There is already a MASSIVE anti-marriage campaign worldwide, with men basically giving up on marriage and refusing to get married. Here are two recent articles on it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3046350/Why-men-refuse-marry-Women-complain-chaps-today-won-t-settle-Sorry-ladies-s-fault-argues-wickedly-provocative-new-book-Denigration-Men-PETER-LLOYD.html

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/05/01/why-men-wont-marry.html

Now, there are THREE main ways we can destroy feminism forever and take women off the massive pedestal they are on. We must fund and promote the following three technologies:
1. Virtual reality sex programs
2. Artificial wombs
3. Sex Robots

Once these three technologies are in place, women will no longer have any power in society. After all, why would you waste time chasing after fat women in real life when you can fuck hot supermodels in virtual reality or fuck a female sex robot? And since women's main power comes from their reproduction capacity, if we REMOVE that capacity from women through the technology of artificial wombs, then women will have ZERO power left in society and thus feminism is finished forever.

THIS is the solution, gentlemen! Now we must do our part and spread the above message to as many men as possible so that we can raise the consciousness of men worldwide. I am the guy who created the famous Boycott American Women blog, which reached around 40 million people worldwide through the internet campaign I created. Therefore I know what I am talking about.

In summary:

Do not ever get married. Simply seduce and bang women, or fuck prostitutes, and help promote the above three technologies, and we will DESTROY FEMINISM FOREVER! Thank you!

If you still have doubts about WHY you should not get married, I strongly recommend you to read the following article:
https://dontmarry.wordpress.com/

haus frau said...

Familiarity breeds contempt, at lest if the other person never pushes back. I once worked with a middle aged woman who often bragged openly about shutting down her husband's sexual adances and that she had zero interest in that kind of intimacy at her age. Her husband worked a few cubicles down the row. I felt sorry for him. She was a nasty piece of work.

maniacprovost said...

Obviously I shouldn't respond to the "boycott marriage, fuck a sexbot thing," but, well... there are some points in favor of it. However, I believe the rise of artificial wombs will result in upper middle class men keeping harems of tweenage slaves, not robots.

ThirdMonkey said...

Once the ill behavior has been called out and swiftly corrected, as soon as possible, follow Heartiste Poon Commandment XIV. It might very well be the case that her nagging and irritability was in part due to a lack of XIV. Repeat as necessary.

ThirdMonkey said...

Once the ill behavior has been called out and swiftly corrected, as soon as possible, follow Heartiste Poon Commandment XIV. It might very well be the case that her nagging and irritability was in part due to a lack of XIV. Repeat as necessary.

Shimshon said...

Don't expect a woman's behavior to turn on a dime. Do make measured moves. Be resolute. Even when kids are involved, there are times where walking away is the only sensible choice. In my personal experience, I filed for divorce about 5 months after putting my foot down to years of bad behavior. It was the best 431 shekels I ever spent. Beat tens of thousands in therapy. That was well over three years ago. We're still together. So that happens too.

Rex Little said...

If you get married, there is at least a 50 percent chance that your wife will divorce you, kidnap your children from you, and steal all your money in divorce.

If you have kids, most of this can happen to you even if you aren't married; their mother can walk away, take the kids, and you have to pay child support. I'd say you have a slightly better chance at a decent custody arrangement if you go through a divorce than if you were never married. So if you want kids, you might as well marry their mom. Especially if you have religious beliefs which require that, but even if you don't.

Artificial wombs might change this conclusion, but we're not there yet.

Of course, if you don't want kids, staying single is an easy choice. I was stupid enough to get married twice even though I never had or wanted children, but I certainly don't wish that on anyone else.

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Tom Roberts said...

In a recent discussion with my dad in talking about one of his best friends over the last 17+ years, he mentioned that Bruce, a retired history professor author of a books on the 1948 Cleveland Indian team, mentioned that he shouldn’t have married his wife. Now this is a guy in declining heath (75+).

I didn’t ask why he would say that (Bruce having already been divorced) but if I were I betting man, his wife is probably, “berating, nitpicking” or being a complete pain in-the-ass. I don’t see it any other way for Bruce to reach a level of discontent.

A few years back, I recall a story in the news about a women who filed a missing person’s report on her husband. Turns out he bolted from the Mid-Atlantic or N.E. somewhere and drove to Florida. When authorities tracked him down they asked why he just left without saying a word to his wife…”She nagged me to death”.

I made the mistake of not listening to my intuition about a recent girlfriend and reading attitudes (what’s behind that: entitlement?) that points to having certain expectations (read: difficult). In fact, she admitted that her ex-husband called her difficult. Of course he was more than likely based on what I know, somewhat of a doormat or appeaser. Nevertheless, when a women volunteers that she has been associated with difficulty, weigh that against experience and understanding of what is most valued in women. Of course, any women who initiates divorce is suspect until motivation is thoroughly analyzed.

Over at Dalrock, the thread follows a discussion about a recent post by a women who “ asked what things a young woman can do to be more attractive to potential husbands.” https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2015/08/01/the-problem-isnt-knowledge-but-attitude/

@Jourdan . The casualty is your self-respect. Feminine imperative deferment (a cultural issue) leads men down undesirable paths and the leadership vacuum it creates. And nature abhors a vacuum.

Corvinus said...

Don't expect a woman's behavior to turn on a dime.

@Shimshon
That's true. It has to be gradual. All I know is that women I met before about 2013 still think of me as a high Omega / low Delta (i.e., a Gamma with no social skills), even if I run into them around, whereas those who've met me only this year or late last year think of me as a high Delta.

Artificial wombs might change this conclusion, but we're not there yet.

They'll never be invented. Never. The contingencies involved in a successful birth are enormous. We'll always have to rely on women and Game for reproduction. ce8's stock rant is just useless, hopeless MGTOWism.

Corvinus said...

All I know is that women I met before about 2013

Women get imprinted with an impression of you that can be very difficult to change. There are a couple of women I met before 2013 who do think of me as high Delta, but only because I only ran into them once, or at the most, very sporadically. But those with whom I interacted with semi-regularly before then have it pretty much cemented in their minds that I'm a high Omega. It doesn't matter if I run into them now, or if they talk to women who have a much more favorable impression of me; they still consider me creepy.

In the case of marriages, I suppose if she thinks of you as Delta for a long time, then as Gamma, you do have a chance at possibly reminding her via nostalgia of the more attractive Delta you were when she married you.

How you imprint on women is important, and can be extremely difficult to change.

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