Sunday, May 31, 2015

Be the man, be the law

Dalrock has been addressing the problem of troublesome mothers-in-law this week, particularly the problem that some wives have with their mothers-in-law. While I respect what he is saying about not feeding female drama and the importance of not meekly accepting Wifey's orders to go and confront Mommy because Wifey doesn't like that you're listening to Mommy instead of Wifey, I think he's missing the point about the mother-in-law problem legitimately being one the husband should solve.
It always cracks me up when people start by explaining how entirely unreasonable someone is being, and then follow up with a solution which would only apply when dealing with someone who is generally speaking reasonable.  As I explained in the previous post, this kind of dramatic confrontation is the troublesome mother-in-law equivalent of crack.  There are so many ways for a trouble-making mother-in-law to parry such a clumsy response that all I can say for sure is the mother-in-law couldn’t have asked for a better outcome.  It may be that the husband will decide bringing his folks along on future family vacations is a bad idea, but setting this up as a punishment only invites decades of “poor me” performances by the mother-in-law.  That in doing this he isn’t acting under his own steam, but instead taking orders from a gaggle of gossiping women makes the situation all the worse.  This is a major victory for the mother-in-law, and decades of high drama will undoubtedly ensue.
My advice is somewhat different. I think the husband should a) defend his wife, and b) bring the noise. Which is to say issue a direct order to Mommy to be respectful to his wife, be a helpful grandmother, and heed his wife's expectations and requests or be left out of most social activities. And if the wife is being unreasonable or being a bitch, then he should tell her to knock it the fuck off or watch him step back and let her have it out with her mother-in-law on her own.

Which really isn't all that different than Dalrock's ultimate advice on the matter:

1) Protect his family.
2) Minimize the drama.
3) Are loving to all involved. 

Women may love drama, but they don't love being called on it when they lapse into childish schoolyard behavior. So long as both women find the prospect of being dressed down by the husband more unpleasant than waging low-grade war with each other, they'll figure out a way to get along. And if Mommy is simply a lunatic drama queen, then the husband should excise her from the family's life before it's even necessary for the wife to voice her opinion on the matter. I don't see (3) being relevant, and in fact it may make matters worse. Such situations call for justice and discipline, not mercy and understanding.

Be reasonable, be honest, and be civil, or be gone. Life is vastly simpler, better, and easier if a man operates on that principle.

I understand it can be hard for a submitted husband who regards every woman's wish as his command to even think about such a situation in this way, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a viable solution.

36 comments:

M. Bibliophile said...

Agreed. My mom is a bit of a drama queen (less now than she once was, and in large part because she found out the hard way actions have consequences and isn't stupid). She went to low-grade war with my (very non drama queen) wife when I deployed and she figured I couldn't do anything about it.

Mistake.

I called her from Iraq and informed her that I had my wife's back completely and she could either knock it off or face consequences. She backed down, grudgingly. A few much more minor subsequent events similarly handled led to de facto capitulation and the two get along very nicely today,

Al From Bay Shore said...

I was thinking the same exact thing as I was reading that post. If the wife won't lay down the law then the husband ought do it otherwise the family will endure a hugely destructive influence. The mother in law is supposed to "step off" but if she does not then she needs to be cut off, and if the wife won't do it, the husband must.

Cail Corishev said...

Dalrock did say later that he intentionally stayed away from the issue of what the husband should do, because in the context of the post -- a woman asking what to do about her mother-in-law -- he knew women would take any advice for the husband as, "Here's what you need to make your husband do."

Nominally Christian discussion sites are full of women asking, "My husband's kind of a wimp. How do I make him be more manly when I want him to be?" They demanded an equal partnership (and veto power), and then wonder why he won't lead it.

Booch Paradise said...

I didn't read what dalrock wrote as being contradictory to that. My take is that he was saying that the root of the problem isn't actually the mother in law, but the husband not having his proper role in the marriage. And that until that's fixed, the husband won't do what he needs to do. So the wife has to fix her marriage first, by winning over her husband through submission. Then she won't have to ask him to take care of Mommy, he'll do it on his own.

But certainly once the husband has taken his role as head of the house, and views his wife as being under his protection, he should do something like what you described. You just can't brow beat or shame control him into doing that, because his mom can brow beat and shame control him to.

Matt said...

There's nothing as heartbreaking as coming to the realization that your mother is a woman, in every horrible way.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Be reasonable, be honest, and be civil, or be gone.

Edicts by which to rule society.

Life is vastly simpler, better, and easier if a man operates in such a way that he acquires neither wife nor mother-in-law.

Just sayin'.

Russell Newquist said...

Be reasonable, be honest, and be civil, or be gone.

A man should live by this rule with everyone, not just wives, mothers, or women.

dalrock said...

@Booch Paradise
I didn't read what dalrock wrote as being contradictory to that. My take is that he was saying that the root of the problem isn't actually the mother in law, but the husband not having his proper role in the marriage. And that until that's fixed, the husband won't do what he needs to do. So the wife has to fix her marriage first, by winning over her husband through submission. Then she won't have to ask him to take care of Mommy, he'll do it on his own.

But certainly once the husband has taken his role as head of the house, and views his wife as being under his protection, he should do something like what you described. You just can't brow beat or shame control him into doing that, because his mom can brow beat and shame control him to.


Well put. In the second post of the series I explained that what the trouble making MIL probably needs more than anything is for a strong man to tell her to knock off the antics. If the husband decides to do this of his own volition, the mother-in-law will almost always become surprisingly calm, happy, and pleasant.

But there are exceptions. Just how much crazy are we dealing with here? Is this garden variety drama seeking crazy, or a deeper kind of (still drama seeking) crazy? Also, we have to keep in mind that not every husband is equally equipped to deliver this kind of smackdown, especially initially. What Vox would deliver as an alpha/sigma smackdown would come out as gamma rage for many men. Vox's wife wouldn't be writing to Prudence to determine how to order her husband to solve this problem.

Vox:
I don't see (3) being relevant, and in fact it may make matters worse. Such situations call for justice and discipline, not mercy and understanding.

A properly delivered (and deserved) smackdown is loving. Assuming it works as desired, it is the most loving thing the husband can do regarding his mother. He also has to consider the impact on the daughter. A properly executed Alpha/Sigma smackdown isn't likely to have the same kind of blowback for the daughter, because the drama is going to stop and the incident with the book will fade away. If the drama doesn't stop, given everyone's understanding of the alpha/sigma nature of the husband, no one will be confused that this was not about the wife or daughter. This was fundamentally about the alpha/sigma not tolerating disrespect. This is important, because the MIL has already painted the story as the daughter's idea. If she is half way effective as a manipulator (and she is far more likely an expert), she was able to frame this with the daughter at the time to convince her it was her idea as well.

Lastly, we are writing to different audiences. In that series I'm writing to wives who need to butt out and stop playing the drama and manipulation game. What they will be looking for more than anything is an authority to quote when telling their husband what to do. I'm being very careful not to hand that to them, and not to play the role of the only real man in the room.

dalrock said...

This was fundamentally about the alpha/sigma not tolerating disrespect.

should be:

This was fundamentally about the alpha/sigma not tolerating willful disrespect and meddling from his mother.

Zach said...

They demanded an equal partnership (and veto power), and then wonder why he won't lead it.

Well put, Cail.

HickoryHammer #0211 said...

Really, if I may, it sounded like a large part of the problem is soft men hand picked by a young shrew in training to be a golem, transitioning into a battle between the young shrew and the old harpy about who is in charge. I don't think it's a big problem for the people who read Dalrock or the people who read the Dark Lord, because the respective fanbases all have big balls.

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JLT said...

Who is the law? Compare their spending to their earnings:

The Female Economy
Women now drive the world economy.



Globally, they control about $20 trillion in annual consumer spending, and that figure could climb as high as $28 trillion in the next five years. Their $13 trillion in total yearly earnings could reach $18 trillion in the same period.

...Women make the decision in the purchases of 94% of home furnishings…92% of vacations…91% of homes… 60% of automobiles…51% of consumer electronics...

LP 999/Eliza said...

Equality, feminism and henhouses are all distractions and lies. Shield the kids from the nuttery or perhaps use it as a edu tool to explain adult matters

Men run the show, men run their wives. The wives must be objective (not waste time on emotionalism and anger) and not engage in henhousing.

Life is about the children and the young MARRIED couple having a harmonious/stable home not drama. if the wife, a married woman, cannot abide by that then men could ignore (as they usually do) the loons. However, perhaps its needed for the MARRIED men must address the matter sternly, swiftly for one final time.

I re-state married a few times b/c in marriage, he leads, she follows, upon the wedding day, a man and wife steps away from their parents and into married life.

If the wife wants to play "no-sex" games then rounds of silence, reality check could help.

Around mid 4/2015 I made one joke about smiting the day after I became deathly ill for 2 weeks, so I am abstaining from making any light of or jokes regarding about smiting.

LP 999/Eliza said...

And how dare any spoiled women stress their husbands out, tis why DONT STRESS OUT YOUR husband with drama that is not important however if need be, slap the drama down early n/ fast for peace. Never worry about the aftermath, women get glad, mad, sad, most bitches can be silenced very quickly with Vox's solutions.

LP 999/Eliza said...

The interference I've ran is a formal acknowledgment that the older people have both feet in the grave so married couples may not even have to tolerate the truly hurtful senile types for much longer.

LP 999/Eliza said...

Yeah, women spending.

America would turn around when the voting rights, employment, driver license and ANY access to credit cards are ended for women if not all women. Our places to care for the spouse, family and home.

Kim Priestap said...

I feel terrible for women with mother in laws who are unreasonably possessive over their sons. For years and years, the MIL was the one woman who was the only constant in her son's life but was ultimately replaced. I've go two sons, so I'll be going through this as well some day. I'm thankful I've got a wonderful MIL who is a great example for me. She's a true gift, but that's because she's a Christian woman who understands her daughter in law's role as her son's wife.

Cataline Sergius said...

If it comes down to it.

If you have to choose, it is better to have an unhappy mother than unhappy wife.

Bobo #117 said...

"Life is vastly simpler... and easier if a man operates in such a way that he acquires neither wife nor mother-in-law."

Fixed it.

Eric said...

Stop marrying feminists and you wouldn't have to put up with any of this crap.

But, then again, without Feminists, there'd be no Game lol.

Jason Lee said...

"The solution is simple; the wife needs to relinquish the position of head of household and cede that position to her husband. This means she needs to abandon her tools of manipulation over her husband, not ratchet them up. This will take some time and effort, and there are simple steps a wife can take to encourage her husband to start taking on the role of leader and protector.

"The solution isn’t foolproof, but it is extremely effective. Nearly all men are highly protective of those they lead, and if they see themselves as head of the household they will start to naturally see themselves as their wife’s protector. The mother-in-law will also sense the change, and since the husband is now acting under his own natural authority she will take him seriously in a way she never did with the wife or when she saw him as the wife’s ambassador

https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/a-wifes-best-defense-against-a-troublesome-mother-in-law/

VD said...

Also, we have to keep in mind that not every husband is equally equipped to deliver this kind of smackdown, especially initially.

Fair enough, but at the end of the day, if the smackdown is required, the husband is going to have to find the wherewithal to deliver it, even if it doesn't come naturally for him. Everything else is mere preamble.

bob k. mando said...

Eric said...
But, then again, without Feminists, there'd be no Game lol.



you've read much, but you've understood nothing.

JP said...

There's nothing as heartbreaking as coming to the realization that your mother is a woman, in every horrible way.

Well, there's the moment when you realise that your dad must have had sex with your mom AT LEAST once...

Bandit said...


Women now drive the world economy.

Globally, they control about $20 trillion in annual consumer spending, and that figure could climb as high as $28 trillion in the next five years. Their $13 trillion in total yearly earnings could reach $18 trillion in the same period.

...Women make the decision in the purchases of 94% of home furnishings…92% of vacations…91% of homes… 60% of automobiles…51% of consumer electronics...




This is nonsense.

There is a big difference between "make" 60% of the decisions to spend and "influence" 60% of the decisions to spend money. This frequently gets lost in translation. These numbers are always couched in terms of influencing a certain percentage of spending decisions -- which can be almost meaningless. For example -- saying women influence 60% of auto purchases. Well, how much do they influence 60% of auto purchases? Do women have 5% influence on 60% of auto purchases? That's not very much. The reality is that men have a comparatively large influence (compared to women) on auto purchases and many other things.

You simply can't trust any research statistics put out by feminists (and their leftist MSM lackeys). One always needs to dig deeper. If a husband gives his wife a few hundred dollars to buy clothes or toys for the kids, do these statistics determine that the wife influenced the decision to purchase? The reality is that it was the kids and husband that decided not only to spend the money but on what they wanted purchased, and the wife is only acting as a proxy.

These skewed idiotic feminist inspired purchasing numbers will end up having almost the entire marketing efforts of companies catering to women when the reality of the situation is quite different

Double E said...

These skewed idiotic feminist inspired purchasing numbers will end up having almost the entire marketing efforts of companies catering to women..

That ship has sailed my friend.

Mo said...

I've been reading the threads over at Dalrock with interest, as I'm currently dealing with MIL issues. I agree that as the leader of his family, ultimately it's the husband's responsibility to maintain order. However...it seems to me that the one who really ought to have stepped in is HIS father. When dealing with my in-laws, my most consistent thought is, DAMN, [Father-in-Law] needs to put his wife in check. But he had the fight whipped out of him a long time ago.

My MIL gives every appearance of being a very sweet lady, but she rules with an iron fist ( I call it the Tyranny of Nice.) Generally that's her husband's problem to deal with, except when it comes to how she treats my husband. He's very in control, except when dealing with his mother. For example, when we visit, she still expects to inspect his attire before going to a family function. And as horrifying as this would be in any case, my husband is a Veteran who has lived on his own quite successfully for 12 years - ie, he absolutely does not need anyone telling him how to dress.

So far, I've handled it like this: if she asks my opinion about his clothes (which she usually does, like the two of us together need to approve of him, blech), I'd say something like, "I think he's handsome as always, and what he wears is his choice." It doesn't seem to get through to her, but it's all I can think of to do without a head-on confrontation. Which may happen the day she pulls anything like that in front of our future children.

Mo

Cail Corishev said...

if she asks my opinion about his clothes

You could try something lewd, like, "I don't care, as long as he can get them off in a hurry whenever I need my itch scratched." If she wants to insert herself into your business, give her a nice big dose of it.

bob k. mando said...

Mo said...
When dealing with my in-laws, my most consistent thought is, DAMN, [Father-in-Law] needs to put his wife in check. But he had the fight whipped out of him a long time ago.



this is relevant. however, given how many women are divorcees nowadays, this will often not even be an option.

i would agree that when possible this needs to escalated "up the chain of command" as much as possible which would mean the Husband to the Father in Law first and then if no satisfaction is found the Husband just takes care of business himself.

if the Husband is present in the middle of a Mother in Law attack, he should put an immediate stop to that.

Corvinus said...

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Shane South said...

My wife hates her mother-in-law. And why shouldn't she? Mom sits around smoking, drinking, and going to casinos with her boyfriend, and maybe visiting with us and seeing her grandkids for about 10 minutes a month. The woman is a non-entity in our lives, and she's 90% unreliable. If we ask her to come over and help us out with something--say, a sick kid, or to dare to watch the children so that we can run an errand--we have to twist her arm. And it is for that very reason that we hardly ever call her, invite her anywhere, or give her a second thought any longer. The woman just wants to get high, get old, and die. I hope she doesn't expect her entire family to surround her on her deathbed to lavish affection on her. Both my half-sister and I are...shall I say, disappointed with the woman. Yes. "Disappointed." I guess that's the word I'll use.

Thoughts, friends?

Stacy Wright said...

fred kings said...
I want to thank God for using Dr Okougbo Alaba as my source of savior after 2 year of joblessness and my lover left me alone for 2 years,Have just been heart broken until i go in contact with Dr Okougbo Alaba after i saw a lady testimony on how she was helped by this same dr Okougbo Alaba, So i decided to get in contact with him and when i told him all my problem he laughed and said this is not a problem that everything will be ok in 3days time. Exactly the 3rd day my ex lover called me i was shocked and what surprise me the most was that a company i applied for over 4month called me and said i should resume work as soon as possible.Am so grateful to Dr Okougbo Alaba if you wish in contacting him realhomeofspell@outlook.com He do cast the spell as following
(1) If you want your ex back.
(2) you need a divorce in your relationship
(3) You want to be promoted in your office.
(4) You want women & men to run after you.
(5) If you want a child.
(6) You want to be rich.
(7) You want to tie your husband & wife to be yours forever.
(8) If you need financial assistance.
(9) Herbal care
Contact him today on: realhomeofspell@outlook.com
May 31, 2015 at 11:59 AM


Thanks Fred Kings. I contacted him and he has saved my relationship. He is a life saver. I am so happy. Thank you

xandohsa said...

Shane I had a similar situation. Warning: start today planning for your mother-in-law's long term care lest you wind up in my situation. What happened with us is that she went senile in her old age. She was an infamously headstrong and difficult control freak when she still had her mind, and that all got amplified over time. Then she began developing new crazy and annoying behaviors that we can't break her out of, tinged with a new hot streak of paranoia (common with Alzheimer's patients). She's utterly unmanageable. All her sons cut bait on her, leaving her to her only daughter (my wife), and we're literally left holding the bag on this. Wow is it one big, depressing hair ball.

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