Monday, January 19, 2015

Don't sweat "the turning"

BETA men worry far too much about keeping their unhappy wives. If what Rollo describes is what is happening to you, my advice is not to worry about it, but focus on easing her path out of the marriage in the least mutually destructive manner possible.
Once the first (and possibly second) child arrives, a woman’s order of intimate priorities changes, “turns” to that of the child. The sex “reward”, the ‘cookie time for good boy’, for desired behavior or performance ‘turns’ off, or sex is used as an intermittent reward for desired behavior (i.e. Choreplay). Sex becomes a utility; a positive reinforcer for her Beta increasing his provisioning capacity rather than the true visceral enjoyment she had with her past lovers.

This new functionality sex represents to a wife becomes ‘turning’ on her husband who believed he would always be her most intimate priority. In the instance of a woman marrying her ‘Alpha Provider’ this may in fact be the case, but as with the hierarchies of love that Alpha doesn’t have the same concern with, and didn’t marry his wife under the same pre-expectations a Beta does.

For the man who persists in his Beta mindset (or the guy who regresses into that mindset) this ‘turning’ becomes more and more pronounced. The turning comes out of the bedroom and into other aspects of their relationship – finances, familial ties, her expectations of his ambitiousness, his asserting himself at work or with their mutual friends – on more and more fronts he’s compared to other men and the ghosts of the Alphas she knows or has known.

Even though the Beta is aware his children are now his wife’s true priority, his Blue Pill conditioning still predisposes him to sacrifices. Again, he meets with ready-made social conventions that shame his discontent; “Is sex all that’s important to you?” It shouldn’t be, because it’s really “what’s on the inside that counts”, but he can’t shake the feeling he’s slipping out of her respect.

This is when Beta Dad doubles down. His Blue Pill expectations of himself require an all-consuming, self-sacrificing predisposition. The horse will work harder. His wife may have lost respect for him by this point, but his sense of honor and duty press him on. He doesn’t want to be like his oppressive or non-present father was. He wants to ‘out-support’ his father’s ghost, or what he believes ‘other guys’ would do when their marriages get tough.

So he waits it out, but she’s ‘turned’ on him by this point. It wasn’t planned, but all of his martyr-like determination only makes her that much more resentful for having settled on this Beta. After a certain stressing point, her disinterest or indignation goes even beyond his capacity to stay committed to a losing investment.
You can only control your own behavior. No one else's. If your wife is unhappy about the choice she made, if her children and friends and family and fun are her priorities and she wants out, then by all means, let her walk! Show her to the door with a smile!

There is a saying: if you love someone, set them free. You can't control her actions, much less her desires. You can't control the legal system. You can't control your feelings. You can't control anything except your own actions.

Ironically, the more willing you are to let her go, the less likely she is to actually continue down that road. With what is she actually threatening you anyhow? Doing whatever you want to do all the time instead of what she wants you to do? Being able to follow up on any indications of interest expressed by women who are half her age whenever you're so inclined? Do you genuinely think you're going to be able to spend LESS of your future income on things you want if she only gets HALF of it?

Do the math. Whether women control 73 percent or 85 percent of the household spending (depending upon which survey you prefer to credit), keeping only half your income amounts to an effective raise between 46 to 70 percent. Effectively tax-free too!

It suddenly doesn't sound so awful when you put it that way, does it. Remember, most men come out of the divorces that their wives sought happier and better off than they were before. Being around a miserable person who despises you and blames you for their various disappointments in life isn't a desirable state of being. You can't fix feelings, so don't even try.

It is wrong for men to walk out on their wives. There are egregious examples of the archetypical abandonment of women and children that has fueled the anti-male legal bias that exists today. But conversely, a man is not obliged to knock himself out in order to keep a miserable, self-destructive woman from imploding her life. Don't ever make any sacrifices for an angry, bitter, unappreciative woman. She will only despise you for it.

28 comments:

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

I've run the numbers and completed the analysis, and I still think the risk/reward ratio is pretty poor to begin with.

On related note, it's been a while but I actually heard a younger colleague (who has a daughter by his now-estranged wife) use the phrase "happy wife, happy life" to justify doing something or other for her. Made me cringe.

Why do so many men continue to put themselves in this position? Is it a desire for progeny? A thirst for love? Romance? I don't get it.

cailcorishev said...

If the sacrifices worked, they might make sense. If a woman would see her husband doing chores and buying her gifts and think, "Aw, he really does love me. Turns out I love him too; why was I thinking about leaving?" Or: "Well, maybe the love isn't there, but he's obviously committed to doing whatever he can to make this work. He is a good man. I should be a good woman and match his commitment and work, because it's the right thing to do and what's best for the children."

Only problem is that's man thinking. No woman ever reacts that way. Instead it's, "Ugh, gross. I was right, he's a loser." So if she's starting to treat you like a chore donkey, you can go full Quiet Man on her and (maybe) get back on top as a man, or keep being nice and watch her walk away. Either way, might as well find out and get it over with.

cailcorishev said...

Why do so many men continue to put themselves in this position? Is it a desire for progeny? A thirst for love? Romance? I don't get it.

For sex. Yes. Yes. Yes.

If you don't get it, if you honestly don't burn to have a woman, consider yourself lucky and don't. Most guys do, and they'll do whatever they can think of, whatever they've been taught will work, to get it.

modsquad said...

"Remember, most men come out of the divorces that their wives sought happier and better off than they were before."

Her last great gift.

jimmy-jimbo said...

The worst you can do is confirm her desire for leaving you with threats and violence, which for Betas isn't an issue, but continuing to cater to her will. Like you said, let her go yet letting her go won't change her mnds. I've been through my own hell. She already made up her minds. Any actions you do follows her assumptions for you. Not only let her go, drive a hard bargain on the distribution of assets and child support. Then show her up with a new girlfriend that you won't marry. One mistake is enough.

de ti said...

Jimmy:

Yeah. A man who’s finally had enough and says “go ahead, leave, divorce me” needs to be fully willing to follow that all the way through to conclusion. He needs not only to watch her go; he needs to HELP her go. Get the suitcase out, help her pack, call her a cab and pay the fare. It’s when the man sees her going and then relents that he’s got a problem. He does that, she’ll make the rules forever.

will said...

You really have to go into marriage knowing the laws of your state and country. Making blanket statements like 'always walk' or 'show her the door' isn't always applicable in some legal environments. There are options like having something on the side, rekindling an old flame, etc. etc. Some men are afraid of getting caught or being labeled a cheater, but once they understand they are now 'an abandoned spouse' denied of sex, then it's their wife who will get shamed if you're caught. And she knows it. So you disappear for an evening once in a while, or extend a business trip. You don't have to explain yourself to a wife denying you of sex.

de ti said...

“Most guys do, and they'll do whatever they can think of, whatever they've been taught will work, to get it.”

Most men live in a personal relationship desert. When it comes to women, they have little understanding of reality about what women are attracted to. Most men live in constant rejection and failure. They also live in fear and peril – bogus sex harassment claims have scuttled many a career. So most men live with a scarcity mentality. They’ll do whatever they can to get something, anything; and then when they get it they’ll do whatever they must to keep it.

Doom said...

Absolutely. Although I would highly recommend figuring out how to cut that "half". If the divorce is because of her wants, not related to anything actual divorce worthy on your side, you should begin talking to people who know how to shield as much as possible, or at the least know how to negotiate that. Should I find a wife, and should she wish to leave for no other reason than want, I not only can, but will, cut her off at the economic kneecap, and smile the whole time. But I am in a special place. I literally can't lose. Go ahead, throw me in jail. :)

Oh, and they are out there. Lots of young women can't find men these days. Not for marriage. It's a buyers market. Just... train them better this time. Hindsight is wonderful... uhrm, in more ways than one.

Sanelity F said...

@ de ti: When it comes to women, they have little understanding of reality about what women are attracted to. "

A big part of this comes from our media and education systems. For 4 decades the blue pill philosophy has been taught and praised by society. Most men grow up learning this. The internet has been effective at reversing this, to an extent. More and more, when I visit non-manosphere sites to read gender based articles, I'm finding the commentary is flooded with red pill men. I find this encouraging.

jimmy-jimbo said...

"Yeah. A man who’s finally had enough and says “go ahead, leave, divorce me” needs to be fully willing to follow that all the way through to conclusion."

Huh? He has a choice? No, he doesn't. Obviously, he has to take it to the conclusion. Ignoring it will put him in worst position.

"It’s when the man sees her going and then relents that he’s got a problem. He does that, she’ll make the rules forever."

She already makes the rules. The relationship doesn't change in mid-stream.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

@ Cail ~ Burn for women and sex, yes. But for marriage or LTR? No. That so many guys continue to put themselves in that position remains puzzling.

de ti said...

LBF:

"But for marriage or LTR? No. That so many guys continue to put themselves in that position remains puzzling."

LTR and/or marriage is the only way a lot of guys can get a woman and can get sex. All they have to offer, or believe they have to offer, is commitment. So they offer it up in the hopes that they’ll get sex.

Another strong drive at least among Christian men is to have children. Men are conditioned into this, of course. Any guy in or around churches is heavily conditioned and pressured to marry not only for the sex, but so he will father kids.

betweenhammerandanvil said...

Another strong drive at least among Christian men is to have children. Men are conditioned into this, of course. Any guy in or around churches is heavily conditioned and pressured to marry not only for the sex, but so he will father kids.

Isn't the "saving Western Civilization" component of the blog's tagline at least partly contingent upon passing on one's genes, though?

therationalmale.com said...

The problem isn't one of showing her the door, it's one of her wanting to walk through it when she's more comfortable stringing her husband along with drip-feed sex to ensure her own comfort.

People generally don't have a problem making decisions when they're right and wrong, they have trouble making right or right and wrong vs. more wrong decisions. It's not her wanting to leave, it's her lingering around, comfortable with her disrespected Beta, and his inability to change that situation.

Corvinus said...

And if you're Catholic, divorce is not an option, i.e., you won't be able to get a second wife unless you want to go to hell, so it's either be ALPHA or give up women entirely. If you're BETA (especially a Gamma!) and Catholic, and decide to get married, you might as well stick a pistol in your mouth and pull the trigger.

cailcorishev said...

LBF, for a Christian man, licit sex means marriage. Aside from that, when a man likes having sex with a woman, he usually wants to keep having sex with her, and he doesn't want any other men having sex with her. Marriage is the traditional way to make that happen, and men still assume it's the best way, though of course it's much less so than it used to.

But anyway, that's why when the inevitable "Why do men still marry in this climate?" question comes up, I say answer #1 is "For sex." For many of us, they're inseparable.

Robert What? said...

This article is spot on! Once our son was born he became the man in her life. I was a distant fourth after her mother and her siblings. Granted, I was an Olympic Class white knight beta at the time and thought that was the way things were. Plus I did not want to be put in a position of competing with my son.

In any case, this is the reason for the venerable institution of having a mistress. Unfortunately many wives don't want to have sex with their husbands but still go ballistic if he goes somewhere else.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

@ Cail ~ Good point. I actually get tired of having sex with the same woman, and need to move on to the next one. Needless to say, I'm not the good Roman Catholic I was raised to be. I wish more men would stop themselves from getting crushed in the new sexual marketplace.

DT said...

"It's not her wanting to leave, it's her lingering around, comfortable with her disrespected Beta, and his inability to change that situation. "

That's the situation I find myself in. I confronted her recently and said that our sex life (1/mo and when she's horny) isn't good enough for me. She says she doesn't want sex because I only approach her when I want sex, and I don't cuddle on the couch with her enough. But at this point, I don't care to cuddle with a crabby, negative bitch who doesn't want to sleep with me.

What do I, a slowly recovering beta w/ 3 kids, do here?

Vox said...

She says she doesn't want sex because I only approach her when I want sex, and I don't cuddle on the couch with her enough.

First, tell her that she's full of shit the next time she says that, because she is. Second, stop making overtures entirely. Third, start getting in better shape, buy yourself some new clothes, and start going out with your male friends once or twice a week. This will cause her to start thinking you having an affair.

If she asks why you're not making overtures, ask her why you should. No means no, after all.

Either she'll get competitive and suddenly find that she's attracted to you, or she'll head towards divorce. Don't sweat the latter, because that's where she's already headed. What you have to understand is that you're already in that place, you just didn't realize it.

Whatever you do, don't beg or bargain for sex.

Blake Law said...

Fully half of your posts on marriage 2.0 could be summed up with the verse in Proverbs chapter 14:

The wise woman builds her house,
But the foolish tears it down with her own hands.

DT said...

Thanks, Vox. I'm in good shape and dress well, but as for the rest, I'll take your advice. I don't know if this flavor of dread game will work for me, since I think I dread a divorce and its effects on my little children more than my wife dreads me leaving her.

Vox said...

I think I dread a divorce and its effects on my little children more than my wife dreads me leaving her.

She knows that. You need to convince her otherwise, even if it is true.

Black Poison Soul said...

Make it clear that a balls-to-the-wall scorched-earth razing of the playing-field is a viable option in your mind. Follow through.

YOU will always bounce back better from nothing than she ever can.

LP 999/Eliza said...

By all means help her pack her bags, oh wait, she wont want help. the husband is saving himself a load of cash, avoiding a heart attck and stroke by getting the flippant, tepid, broad outta his sight!

Deirdre said...

Wow...I guess I am really out of the loop! I happened on this article and am sad about what I am reading. Marriages have many ups and downs. Sometimes folks go through a myriad of things that are not always worked out in short time. My husband and I have been married for almost 25 years now. Through many of those years we have recommitted ourselves to the marriage, to each other! Children do come and go. People need to make time for each other. Is it possible that maybe a guy could just get a hold of the whole situation: IE make a weekend plan, get a sitter, take the wife away somewhere, show a little tenderness. Make it happen! And wives--quicky sex is a great fix for our busy lives. Sorry, but you don't always have to be 'in the mood'. Most of you know that sex "speaks' to your man, so get over 'yourself', lock the door and get er done! I talked with a friend who always wanted all the up front romance and such. They had one child. We have five. I told her without 'quicky sex' we probably would be divorced. Love does for the other. And that is powerful.

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