I'm the guy from the story. For what it's worth, I read through both the post and the extensive comments section. I was absolutely shocked to find this post, since Eliza never mentioned to me that she intended to make this story public.... I'm not a Red Pill person myself, and if we're being totally honest, I found many of the comments to be somewhat misogynistic. But it also seems like some of the people posting had some misconceptions about me and how I acted — and after reading Eliza's piece, I can hardly blame them!Translation: this guy is a High Delta, on the low-key side, doesn't like to work too hard for a woman, and is probably more attractive than the average man. He lacks socio-sexual dominance, which is why he tends to underkick his coverage, and he obviously has little Game. Which is fine for him, because he does well enough that he can take it or leave it, as it happens to come or not. He's more concerned about behaving in a gentlemanly and "dignified" fashion than he is with scoring; he only wants to score on the terms he deems appropriate and acceptable.
First off, I have no idea where she got the "temper tantrum" term from. It's a fairly gross misrepresentation of what I thought was reasonably dignified behavior. I felt she was sending me mixed signals by inviting me over for one-on-one drinking, and as soon as she said no definitively, I simply got up, put on my shoes, and left. I explained to her in a clear, calm voice that I felt misled, and simply meeting up to build a platonic friendship wasn't my intention. I even shook her hand to make sure there would be no bad blood.
As soon as I left, I started getting a string of angry, invective-laden texts from her, calling me "manipulative" and a few other choice words that aren't fit for print. I'm not sure what I did to earn this treatment, but I kept an even keel and kindly asked her to desist. She did — after about a day. We've since buried the hatchet (as long as we're crystal clear on where our relationship stands, I don't mind being platonic friends), but make no mistake: This was very aggressive behavior on her part, and I did my level best to keep my cool throughout. I believe I succeeded.
Furthermore, I have no idea where she got this idea of "entitlement" from, especially coming from me. I didn't believe she owed me any kind of physical contact, but obviously I was hoping to get it. I believe I made appropriate overtures, engaging her on a friendly level at first, then escalating the situation to something that could turn more intimate.
If you want to call this approach "beta" or "gamma" or what-have-you, fair enough, but this is generally how I go about attracting women, and it works well most of the time. If women are interested, great! We'll make out, or have sex, or whatever's most appropriate. If not, fine! They're not under any legal obligation to be interested in me. I'll bow out gracefully and see who comes my way next.
Eliza on the other hand, is obviously a narcissistic drama queen who is attracted to socio-sexual dominance. That's why she sent me something like five or six emails the first day and expressed her desire to "understand" the mind of a complete stranger on the Internet. She's neither the first nor the 20th woman who has attempted to strike up a private dialogue with me this way. She's also more attractive than the norm and is accustomed to having orbiters at her beck and call. When this gentleman didn't correctly read her intentionally mixed signals, (whether she'll admit it or not, she wanted him to at least try to push through her token resistance), she was angered, first by his contemptible failure to pursue her aggressively, second by his refusal to gracefully accept his demotion to orbital status.
The handshake, in particular, is what triggered the fury. Having failed as a dominant sex partner, (demonstrating his own inferiority) he then rejected her kind offer to permit him to orbit her in a manner that, to a woman, indicated sexual contempt. He would have done much better to simply leave without explaining himself, as had he done so, she would have been upset and intrigued rather than angry and resentful. The "temper tantrum" to which Eliza referred was pure psychological projection.
Had he been a Gamma, the claims of a tantrum would have been credible. A Delta like this, not so much. I have no dog in this hunt, nor do I know who is telling the truth, but the she-said he-said is interesting for how it illustrates many of the theoretical concepts we have discussed in action.
As for the differences in the two narratives, a woman's story is rather like the government and conspiracy theories. You may not know what truly happened, but the one thing you know for sure is that it didn't go exactly the way you were told.
313 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 313 of 313I rather enjoy male displays of peacockery, but I must admit your never ending doxing games display a very feminine flavor of viciousness that I find quite distasteful. Very passive/aggressive and womanly behavior indeed.
1. I didn't ID anyone. Eliza did that all on her own.
2. My viciousness is my Native American heritage. Don't be raciss.
3. You never get tired of the futile shaming attempts, do you. Now, shut the fuck up, GG.
And Marshall, you're probably a reasonably smart guy, but do you have a functioning definition of the term you use, "misogynist"? Because your correspondent, the pull string robot talking point size 16, considers your gentlemanly withdrawal misogyny, not to mention evidence of your being whiny and hissy -- making you an *effeminate* misogynist, in her eyes. Notice a disconnect? That she's essentially calling you a woman-hater, though she is more manly? The word is meaningless, unless we use the definition most feminists use which is "Any man who displeases me."
--buenavista
Just curious: since Gamma comes before Delta in the Greek alphabet, why is the Delta label given to a higher socio-sexual ranking than the Gamma?
Because deltas are capable of change, and moving up to beta, or even bordering on alpha. And in mathematics, the letter delta is the symbol of change.
@Eliza
As a woman who has been reading game blogs for almost seven years now, I can assure you that you are not going to get the full picture overnight, or in a few days, of what game and the Red Pill are all about. If you really do want to understand the thoughts behind it, you are going to need to devote several weeks, months, maybe years, to the daily reading of game blogs; not just Alpha Game. You would be doing yourself a disservice by limiting yourself to the last few blog posts, emails to Vox, and the subsequent abuse you've received in the comments, because this blog doesn't represent the entire manosphere and you were trying to control the narrative. Go to the blogs listed on this site's blog roll; follow their blog rolls, too. There are some pretty dark places, for women, but there are also valuable truths and insights, if you're open enough. Read as many different sites as you can, but don't get involved in the comments. Just read.
If you aren't interested in truths, and are simply wanting male attention, I suggest finding other blogs. The guys here do not suffer fools lightly, as you've seen.
2870:
Because in the scientific world, "delta" denotes change, and Deltas show the greatest potential for change in sociosexual terms.
Just curious, how did Marshall find out that Eliza was writing about him here? He doesn't strike me as a regular reader.
I will go ahead and answer Eliza's questions in good faith:
1) My parents have an equal partnership, what I think you might call marriage 2.0. Not "reversed" gender roles, just fluidity in filling the spaces that need to be filled. Dad is a CEO, Mom is a federal judge. They are happy, in love, genuinely like each other, and also have an active sex life. Help me understand marriage 2.0, and reconcile it with my own family?
Marriage 2.0 is not an absolute thing, just a term for how the overall societal attitude toward marriage has changed. I think it has worked out better for couples of a previous generation or two, since the effects of new cultural patterns don't always emerge instantly. I'm guessing they are Baby Boomers. They enjoyed the fruits of the hard work and sacrifice of previous generations, but Baby Boomers are in general not handing down that legacy to their children.
But let's be clear: there is no male/female relationship that is a true "equal partnership". You can call it that all you want, but one or the other will be the de facto leader. Generally if the woman is the true leader, she will start to harbor contempt for her husband. Some couples hover back and forth between who is the leader, depending on how successful and confident the husband is at the time. Women will assume leadership if they feel the man isn't up to the task, but they will make their displeasure with the man known in a thousand small ways.
2) I have my own struggles with men. I have been hurt a lot, and I often have to remind myself that not all men are bad. Do you see a degree of hatred toward women in this community or in yourself, and, if so, where do you think it stems from?
Yes, I do see a degree of hatred toward women among some of the men here. Some of it justified, some of it not. Some men (especially men of current generations) get off on being drama queens. Not having a good masculine role model in their lives can lead to that. Which... of course can be directly related to the number of women who have children and ditch the fathers. Is it directly womens' fault? Yes and no. Women have been aided and abetted in their abdication of true motherhood by the shift in our culture and laws. It's a long-term, generational thing and has many causes.
3) How many of you are in long-term, committed relationships? What do those relationships look like?
Many of us are. 16 years for me. I am a little unusual here in that my wife was indeed a friend with whom I would share a bottle of wine on a rare occasion, when neither of us was dating someone else. But, neither of us led the other on and neither was truly needy when it came to attracting the opposite sex.
4) Is most of the Game community Christian? Or just this blog?
A certain percentage of it is. I ended up visiting here from time to time as a regular on Vox's main blog, which has a fairly high percentage of Christians. Why am I here? Obviously, looking for tips on how to pick up a mistress or two.
No, no... kidding. It's just a topic of interest to me, both intellectually and personally, since I have 3 children, one of whom is entering puberty. The relationship world has a few more hazards in it these days than when I was single in the 80s and 90s.
A beta has it already so good that he is rarely motivated to work his way to alpha. Alpha and sigma have nowhere to go. Gamma's mind rejects the very information that could improve him, so there is no way to help him. Omega has such a mind-boggling amount of work to do that it rarely happens. Lambda means gay, so usually they would stay gay.
That leaves only delta.
Eowyn,
She isn't interested in change, merely in daily affirmation that she is an amazing, special snowflake.
Which she failed to receive here.
We should use a new term in the Manosphere: Omicron.
Reserved for Women devouring planet sized masses of raw, transformable attraction that women are drawn to like a black hole sucks in stars.
Ha, I knew that had to be GG. Bet she's mad that Eliza's stealing her limelight.
Marshall's blog post is pretty weepy, and doesn't make him sound as successful with women as his message here, but he doesn't sound like a virgin either. A true gamma would be an (unwilling) virgin, or maybe have had one drunken hookup with a fat (okay, fatter) chick. He also seems more disappointed and confused than angry about his many rejections, which also doesn't fit a true gamma.
I'd agree that he's probably lucky she did nothing worse than denigrate him anonymously online, after he rejected her kind offer to be her court eunuch.
If it's true that a woman with her looks and attitude gets enough attention that she feels like she can afford to have orbiters....well, I guess I'm glad I don't live anywhere near her area.
Because in the scientific world, "delta" denotes change, and Deltas show the greatest potential for change in sociosexual terms.
Yeah, that is one quibble I have with the terms "Gamma" vs. "Delta". If I had to choose, I'd give the Gammas a different Greek letter lower than Delta.
Perhaps Zeta, since the term "zeta male" seems to have been actually appropriated as a synonym for an MGTOW.
Here's the #1 definition on Urbandictionary. (Note that someone made a definition of "zeta" as "what idiots think is the last letter of the alphabet", but it got heavily downvoted for some reason, possibly by MGTOWs.)
"Zeta male refers to the 4th social hierarchy position among males. (alpha - top, beta - second, omega - the rest). Zeta males consciously reject a the traditional social position as it is based on how they are valued by women. Zeta's can be straight, bi or gay."
Here's the #2 definition:
" A term coined from the star Zeta Persei of the constellation Perseus, named for the Greek God Perseus, slayer of Medusa, the female monster that feminists eventually embraced as representative of feminist rage. Zeta Male represents a slayer of the feminist monster.
Why didn't that guy show respect to that woman when he saw she could be placed first? He's a Zeta Male and lives on his own terms. Besides, what reciprocal obligation does that woman have to men but "choices"." (Again, sounds like bitter MGTOWs.)
"I'm the guy from the story."
He can't be too low ranking since he had the power to send Eliza into a tailspin. It's a bit amusing Eliza, I mean you obviously ran to Vox seeking back-up. In the process you tried to humiliate the guy on the internet and than cover your tracks by claiming to be writing an article. In all honesty, I had no idea women could pull off something so elaborate. I'm not so subtle, I tend to just pitch teacups at their heads. All that deception seems like an incredible waste of time and energy.
Well that was a lot of fun.
It's also nice to see GG use another persona, as it demonstrates how all her normal churchian concern slips away when she's not being "herself", leaving nothing but hostility towards us. An enlightening day all around.
Marshall, do consider joining us. I appreciate you may want to not openly post here for a bit and let things settle down, but it's a good gang.
Everyone knows Insanitybytes is GG is byteme is yttiK right?
Everyone knows Insanitybytes is GG is byteme is yttiK right?
DOX ALERT:
GG has many names...some call her ..Tim?
"We knew it would all turn out this way, didn't we? It's Kabuki Theater."
Actually, I prefer Noh theater...
@ Eliza,
So, this blog seems to be a primarily Christian community. Is this true for most of the Game believers? Or just unique to Vox and his followers?
I doubt that the majority of people posting here or at Vox's other blogs are Christian. Vox has a very wide audience. Likewise the game blogs in general are more about casual sex, which means men pursuing a hook up are by definition not serious about Christian ethical teachings. So no I don't think that there is a particular Christian angle to Alpha Game in particular or the other game blogs at all.
That's not to say that there aren't Christians here. There are. I think that some of the ones here are interested in doing better with women as opposed to just scoring with them. There are other guys, like me, who are married and simply get a perverse kick out of watching the younger generation struggle with something that was relatively easy not that long ago. Reading this blog gives me insight into something I will educate my children about as they get older. Its a way to stay current on the decline of the culture without actually having to go out and spend time in it.
I'm not sure that the answers any of us could give to your other questions I saw you post would be informative.
If you want to know why your parents relationship "works" ask them.
If you want to know what it would take to make a marriage work with you, I doubt you'd like the answer. Marriage involves a man and a women and that means that the women sometimes has to realize that its not all about her and that she needs to find ways to meet her man's needs. I don't see the need to try and categorize you based on these posts and your comments, but you don't come off as a women who wants to invest her life in making a man glad that he is with her.
If you want to know what it would take to make a marriage work with you, I doubt you'd like the answer. Marriage involves a man and a women and that means that the women sometimes has to realize that its not all about her and that she needs to find ways to meet her man's needs. I don't see the need to try and categorize you based on these posts and your comments, but you don't come off as a women who wants to invest her life in making a man glad that he is with her.
Good lord man, "women" is plural. "Woman" is singular. Weird Al should have put that one in his latest video.
Since we're getting into the distinction between Delta and Gamma, I'm curious: since Gamma comes before Delta in the Greek alphabet, why is the Gamma label applied to someone lower on the hierarchy than Delta?
Sorry if this turns out to be a double post; it didn't show up the first time I published it.
Oops, sorry, my original comment did show up. I didn't realize the comments had gone to a second page. I'd remove my duplication, but don't know how to go about it.
ya know normally I loath these comment threads... but seriously...well done kids. This was pure gold.
1) My parents have an equal partnership, what I think you might call marriage 2.0. Not "reversed" gender roles, just fluidity in filling the spaces that need to be filled. Dad is a CEO, Mom is a federal judge. They are happy, in love, genuinely like each other, and also have an active sex life. Help me understand marriage 2.0, and reconcile it with my own family?
A strong reason for her parents' wedding success is that they are part of a religious class that hasn't really embrassed marriage 2.0 whatever you guys might think. Role distribution is probably quite traditionnal for the most part although these families are subject to a strong matriarchal figure. Finally her mother occupies a high SE position which makes it quite hard for her to find potential suitors. This doesn't mean that she hasn't had the opportunity to enjoy the occasional affair. After all she must be a high T woman. Then again this is but a fickle of my imagination and is all but hypothetical.
Puzzle Privateer: Oh, for the love of...
Speaking of solipsism, can you even imagine what she'd say about our man Marshall if he'd done something like *that*?
But my story isn't credible.
Truer words never spoken.
Good-bye, Eliza. We're done with you here.
The tantrum I referred to was in my apartment, immediately after I told him I wasn't going to date him, as he stood up and tried to get out the door as quickly as possible
A "tantrum" took place in the time it took for him to put on his shoes and walk out the door?
Sounds like the world's shortest "tantrum".
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion, based on the tone and content of her posts here, that Eliza cannot possibly be more than 15 years old. If I'm wrong, and if she is any example of the majority of women in her generational cohort (and my casual observations strongly suggest that she is), then God help any mature young millennial man seeking a mature young millennial woman as a mate. In fact, they might as well just forget about it altogether.
obviously AG needs to learn something from 4Chan... The proper response to this chick, as always, is "Tits or GTFO".
Of course, I actually doubt she is lying. It is more likely that she has such an inflated sense of self-worth that she genuinely sees the fact that this guy didn't want to be in her company anymore/defended himself as petty. Because what else could it be? Who else but a petty man wouldn't want to spend time with her?
lol fookin' wrekt
http://i61.tinypic.com/nwlz0n.png
Deuce,
Well, after she calls the cops on him, she'd probably blog about how much she likes splorfing with her son, 8:r€%®.
I'd call her retarded, but she lacks the social skills.
Good lord man, "women" is plural. "Woman" is singular.
I must have been out getting a blow job when they covered that in English class.
Sounds like the world's shortest "tantrum".
By "tantrum" she means, "He didn't do what I wanted him to do." In this case, instead of jumping at the chance to be her friend without benefits, he passed and left, leaving her sitting there with a glass of wine going stale. She had to convince herself that he looked angry and undignified on his way out the door, because in a situation like that, someone had to be, and it certainly couldn't have been her.
if she is any example of the majority of women in her generational cohort
Nah, most aren't that bad; she really is an extreme. I mean, I'm not normally one to say "New York Jew" as if it explains everything, but....New York Jew. On top of that, she's going to a school you choose when you're at Georgetown and you look around and think, "You know, this just isn't liberal and snobbish enough to suit me." She really is a walking stereotype.
Puzzle,
*ahem* *deep breath*
Hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha! She can't resist calling attention to the fact that she's a cunt! That's awesome. I take it all back, Eliza. You're not stupid. You know exactly what you're doing.
Cail nails it.
What Eliza calls a "tantrum" was actually him abruptly gathering his stuff, putting on his shoes, saying nothing, probably deep sighing a couple of times, and leaving, after it was made crystal clear to him that he wasn't going to get any nookie from her that night.
Good lord man, "women" is plural. "Woman" is singular.
I must have been out getting a blow job when they covered that in English class.
Normally I'd let it slide, but you did it three freaking times in a row. Being alpha doesn't mean being a dumbass.
And Puzzle Privateer with a fresh kill!
That someone has a "favorite drag queen" is quite telling...
You can taunt me as much as you like. I am not bothered by it. Water off a duck's back.
Not only are you not bothered by it, we know that your skanky vejayjay is gushing tingly wet with excitement right now from all the harsh "words of corrective wisdom" being thrown your way. Women like you get a vicarious sexual thrill from male discipline and attention - even from men like the orbiter you rejected (if you didn't, you wouldn't have paid anything he said in the aftermath of this incident a nanosecond's worth of attention. Instead, you've dragged the whole "ordeal" [HAH!] out for days to milk it for maximum tingles).
Guys, it occurs to me at this point that the worst thing we could do to hurt Eliza is shut this whole discussion thread down, ignore her, and let her slip off into obscurity.
@liberranter
Ha. Hence why she's sticking to this site like stink on shit, despite our horrible terrible no-good very bad rape-apologism and misogyny and blah blah blah
"Guys, it occurs to me at this point that the worst thing we could do to hurt Eliza.."
If only you'd put half as much energy into getting to know the nature of yourselves as you do playing silly gotcha games with girls, the world would look a whole lot different.
Res Ipsa may not be a grammatical genius, but he is no dumbass.
If only you'd put half as much energy into getting to know the nature of yourselves as you do playing silly gotcha games with girls, the world would look a whole lot different.
This is you: yap! yap! yap! yap! yap! yap!
Get lost. You're boring.
Here's what we have;
* Severe narcissism
* Well-spoken
* Intelligent
* Offers one set of terms, and then attempts to unilaterally change the terms without negotiation
* Projection
* Uses other people as a means to an end (as opposed to recognizing other people as being their OWN ends).
* Psychosis (Gross misreprentation of actual events -- this is an example of what is called a "psychotic break.")
* Blows up over something that is relatively minor.
* Abolutely REFUSES DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE FROM REPUTABLE SOURCES -- sources which SHE WOULD WAVE IN EVERYONE''S FACE IF THEY AGREED WITH HER PREJUDICES (Case in point -- a female head of the New York County Prosecutor's Office Sex Crimes division is demoted to "random female author" because this source says that she KNOWS that half of all rape accusations are false, with no comment on the veracity of the remaining 50%, in contradiction to Eliza's standard feminist lie of "women don't lie about rape"... when the ENTIRE LEGAL COMMUNITY agrees that not only are false rape accusations a problem, they are actually the BIGGEST problem with regard to rape cases. Jurious are highly dubious of many accusers because so many rape accusers are just that...rape accusers, not rape victims)
Most likely has a LOT of tattoos and/or horrific piercings and/or engages in self-cutting or some other form of self mutilation.
Also highly likely to have substance abuse problems.
Could also have moderate to severe identity issues, up to and including sexual identity issues ("bi", lesbian, whatever)
Why do I say suspect the last 3? Because they fit the preceding constellation of behaviors and indicators that go with self-mutilation, substance abuse problems, and sexual identity issues.
Wouldn't be surprised if Eliza ihas issues with respect to Borderline Personality Disorder.
Most likely, Eliza's mother, the judge was probably neglectful to downright abusive, starting from when Eliza was an infant and utterly helpless to defend herself or take care of any of her own needs, even grabbing food to feed herself.
Her mother sees guilt in everyone -- Eliza reports that mother NEVER saw a single innocent rape defendant in her court room -- this despite the fact that in the last 10 years, tens of thousands of rape convicts were let out of state prisons on their own recognizance (no cash bond) while waiting for appeal, and their convictions overturned, on the basis of evidence being subjected to DNA testing, which was not available, or available and not cheap until recently.
Woe to ANY man who gets that woman as a mother-in-law -- in her eyes, he will NEVER be correct about anything -- not even the color of his car, or the size of the engine in it, even if reading it directly off of the window sticker.
If only you'd put half as much energy into getting to know the nature of yourselves as you do playing silly gotcha games with girls, the world would look a whole lot different.
It would be full of Bubblegum soda and rainbow stew.
lol well this has certainly been an interesting read.
I love how the entire thing has gone ABSOLUTLEY typical too. Right down to her reactions as facts became clear. Amusing how it all started through a clear need for validation, and attention seeking too.
It's as if the entire thing was pre-programmed. But of course Not All Women Are Like That, though...right? ;)
When you finally do understand intersexual relations, you will be able to choose which woman you'd like to marry and vet her (not the other way around). She'll need to pass your tests and prove herself to be loyal.
Sarah's Daughter, on a personal note, I just want to thank you for writing this. I was slipping a bit on a related situation lately, starting to make excuses for someone, and this was a perfect reminder.
Eliza reports that mother NEVER saw a single innocent rape defendant in her court room
Her mother's a judge in D.C., so that's actually highly likely to be true.
Taking into account the purported bad feelings from both parties involved (especially from Eliza's end) and the fact that they are still FB "friends", I consider the likelihood that this whole episode was fabricated to be fairly high. Still entertaining, but fabricated.
***Peeks in the door for the first time, quietly leaves***
My pleasure, Cail.
Ugh, the curse of the Delta - the tendency to slip back. "I feel better, I don't need my meds anymore" ;)
Little story for you. Our son did everything right in his approach to a girl. He didn't know her, had only seen her a few times but mustered the courage to ask for her number. Kept his frame in approaching and talking to her and got her number. He told us that night. Almost in unison RLB and I said "three days!" But...he'd already done it, he texted her within three hours! You know the rest of the story. AWALT
Cail nails it.
What Eliza calls a "tantrum" was actually him abruptly gathering his stuff, putting on his shoes, saying nothing, probably deep sighing a couple of times, and leaving, after it was made crystal clear to him that he wasn't going to get any nookie from her that night.
Uggg...my comment got eaten. Short version...this is projection as women feel entitled to male platonic friendship.
@ SarahsDaughter: what the heck is RLB?
Curious that Eliza's Twitter account seems to have vanished from searches.
"Little story for you. Our son did everything right in his approach to a girl. He didn't know her, had only seen her a few times but mustered the courage to ask for her number. Kept his frame in approaching and talking to her and got her number. He told us that night. Almost in unison RLB and I said "three days!" But...he'd already done it, he texted her within three hours! You know the rest of the story. AWALT"
It's weird how seeming like you care too much can sabotage it before it begins. Took me ages to realize that for myself.
you can text a girl fairly quickly, but the text had better be clearly alpha.
Oh, we are done with Eliza the New York jewess stereotype, right?
I wonder how much comfort food is being consumed in a tiny apartment right now somewhere in NY.....
And they will laugh at, and attempt to socially destroy guys who will look for a hot busty blonde with a PhD in home cooking
Such women are still easily found in Russia. Sankt. Peterburg is my favorite vacation spot. In the summer, it's a 24-hour/day beauty contest. And the women LOVE American men... in every way.
@ SarahsDaughter: what the heck is RLB?
Sorry, that's my husband. On the rare occasion that he comments here or at VP, he does so as RedLegBen.
@JCclimber,
I'm not sure what it said, but he obviously lost all frame with the text.
If only you'd put half as much energy into getting to know the nature of yourselves as you do playing silly gotcha games with girls, the world would look a whole lot different.
***YAAAAWWWWWN***
Didn't you hear Vox the first time? Go home, GG. We've had enough tedious, estrogen-driven verbal flatulence around here for one day.
Nah, most aren't that bad; she really is an extreme. I mean, I'm not normally one to say "New York Jew" as if it explains everything, but....New York Jew. On top of that, she's going to a school you choose when you're at Georgetown and you look around and think, "You know, this just isn't liberal and snobbish enough to suit me." She really is a walking stereotype.
Y'know, Cail, I was gonna bring the "NYJ[ess] thing up, but decided against it, knowing what a struggle it would be for me to do it politely and civilly. Thanks for goung there for me. I owe you one.
Eliza is not capable of understanding Game. Game reveals truth, especially about women's behavior, and in order to understand Game, Eliza would have to understand the truth about her crappy, entitled behavior and the way she manipulates men, or tries to. She is not capable of that and therefore cannot and will not understand Game.
Jewish Female Socialst who is the daughter of a Jewish Female Socialist sitting in the judge's chair of a Federal Court IN NEW YORK, the largest Jewish Socialist echo-chamber on the planet and far larger than Israel itself.
It's not surprising that she's utterly flabbergasted that there are dozens of men who not only don't believe the bog-standard Frankfort School bullshit from Feminist Shovels, but can dissect it in great detail AND present a coherent reflection of reality as it actually exists.
But...due to her location (New York) and her family's political power in Brooklyn, which like Manhattan, is essentially a one-party county (*), she has spent her entire life in the leftard echo-chamber, and the only counter-arguments she's ever heard before this week were strawmen presented by her not-nearly-as-clever-as-they-believe-themselves-to-be "teachers." After all, her good, well-connected and highly paid Jewish Socialist parents would NEVER send her to a college or university which is not itself ALSO a Jewish Socialist echo-chamber.
Why do I keep putting in various forms of the the word Jew? ... because this is all part and parcel of the her culture. You wouldn't catch an Indiana farm girl behaving like this at all. She would sooner die.
(*) the Republicans are just Democrats running under the elephant banner rather than the donkey banner. Case in point: Bloombert. Yeah, SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE he's a republican. And I'm the Emperor of Japan and also the KING OF JUPITER AND SATURN!!!!!one!!!!eleventy!!!!!)
Much jollity was had today.
Thanks for going there for me. I owe you one.
Hey, no problem. I kicked it around for a while before posting it myself, but sheesh. Sometimes people fit a mold so perfectly it's hard to believe they're real, but there they are.
Eliza has painted herself in quite a corner by making it so easy to figure out who the players are in this little drama. Based on the different accounts from these two I'd bet that Eliza deliberately set up this pseudo date with the intention of rejecting Marshall and provoking a response she could write about and twist it into a "male entitlement" story. I'd also bet that she did send some nasty texts to Marshall in a bid to provoke "proof" of her side of the story in Facebook and Twitter comments from him. So, I fall on the side of the argument that thinks she has no credibility unless she is willing to show the full text exchange between the two of them.
Marshall probably won't listen to the good advice given by the men here, but as a long-time married woman I think he could benefit from delving into some red pill sites.
Well, after seeing their respective facebook profiles, this is all put into perspective.
I feel like both of them were looking to use each other. He wanted a dry-spell slump-breaking easy lay (I mean look at her, how picky can she be?), while she wanted a nice-guy wuss boy who will giver her attention and validation unlike all the "men who hurt her" (her words,) aka guys she offered herself freely to and used her as a disposable sperm receptacle. She's probably jealous of all her friends and their respective orbiters.
So the guy realizes he isn't getting sex even from a frumpy, sloppy chunkster and bails, and the girl is incensed she didn't get to reject him more than once (beta-orbiter means endless "I keep telling him no" stories to humblebrag to her friends.) So then, hilariously, she comes to Vox thinking she will get validation that he is a loser to soothe the sting of his ability to evade her trap, and instead everyone pokes holes in her story and points out her own flaws.
Article-shmarticle, this is about petty revenge and emotional validation. In other words, game is vindicated once again. To Eliza, go prey on someone else.
To Marshal, you have teetered on the edge of the abyss, and were able to pull yourself back. Well done, now you must begin the journey out of the wilderness. If you're ever in MN, I'll buy you a beer.
Interesting findings...
So Eliza's mom is a federal judge, eh?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_Lyndon_B._Johnson No Judge Hecht
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_Richard_Nixon No Judge Hecht
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_Gerald_Ford No judge Hecht.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_Jimmy_Carter No Judge Hecht
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_Ronald_Reagan No Judge Hecht
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_George_H._W._Bush No Judge Hecht
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_Bill_Clinton No Judge Hecht
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_George_W._Bush No Judge Hecht
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_federal_judges_appointed_by_Barack_Obama No Judge Hecht
Are we supposed to believe that your her was appointed a federal judge by President Kennedy... and her mother was what... 3 years old at the time? Much older than that, and she would have completed menopause before dear Eliza was even born.
Or is this yet another lie that Eliza has told us.
Her mother's last name is not Hecht. It is Liebowitz. Not sure of the spelling.
So Eliza's mom is a federal judge, eh?
Yes. See VP for links. You've got the wrong last name.
I'm betting a large chunk of Eliza's 'story' will detail how the evil menz stalked her out in RL and she was in much fear
Since SarahsDaughter and other women on this blog aren't going along with her bullshit, I'm now taking bets on how long it will take before she starts claiming anti-semetism is what's really driving this all of the criticism of her behavior.
"Oy, I invited a goy man over, fucked with his head, then when he had enough of that shit and left, I publicly attacked him on the internet with all sorts of innuendo and blatant lies, and now they're out to get me! Save me! Save me!
If I knew when I was 18 what I knew now I could have cleaned up. Back in 1994, my rich Jewish great aunts who lived in Miami sent my and my younger brother to Israel for two months. Tons of stupid JAPS there, especially women like Eliza. Opportunities...
Our teacher was a retired Israeli commando, who always had a minimum of 10 weapons on him at all times. He tried to teach these women how to fight with knives one day. Comedy gold.
Markku:
I see into the future. It involves Encyclopedia Dramatica.
Oh, you mean like this?
Like that.
So, I know this is late in the thread. But I'm curious what advice to give. My cousin (who lives with me) has a boy that likes her and is maybe a little too eager. (He's a good guy and I think they could be a pretty good match as he is engaging, interesting, fun and we all go to the same church.) However, my cousin (24 yo) doesn't think she wants a boyfriend at this stage. Whatever. She does, however, take a while to warm to guys in general. The last guy she had a crush on took about 5 months to develop. So I think there's potential here.
That said, the guy keeps asking her out on dates, which she doesn't want to do because she isn't really into him. The problem is that like the second time they hung out they made out at a concert that I was also at. So it seems he thinks he's got a shot, but she doesn't. She asked me tonight how to deal with his repeated requests to go grab a drink or whatever, when she isn't interested romantically. Having read these last couple of posts, and from what I know as a man, I told her that she has to be WAY more explicit in her rejection (she has suggested that when they go out for drinks, a group of mutual friends accompany them and other such ideas that she seemed to make it clear that she wasn't interested. Of course as it wasn't explicit, he didn't ge the hint.) I told her that guys aren't wired to take these alternatives as a rejection, so I told her that she needs to be more direct. Of course she doesn't want to do that for fear of hurting his feelings and losing his friendship. I also told her that under no circumstances should she agree to anything that was just the two of them because that would be leading him on. She seemed to understand that, but when she asked me the best way to go about telling him, I was at a loss.
Any suggestions as to how I might advise her? I really do think they would be good together, but she just takes awhile to warm to people. (She is relatively red pill aware as we've talked a lot about it, and she knows what the friendzone is and admits to immediately putting everyone there to start, which is backed up by what I've seen in the two years she has lived with me.)
@Eric Wilson
I would simply advise her to decline any requests to hang out if delivered in person, to not answer texts or calls from him if she gets them, and hope the kid gets bored and starts looking for other girls. When she feels that he has loosened up enough (as in, he's no longer gunning for her and only her), then she can start including him in activities again.
Something along these lines as the opening gambit:
"You know, I've started to worry that you are looking to be more than friends, and I might be unintentionally leading you on if I go out with you this often. You're a nice person, but I don't feel THAT way about you and I want to prevent any misunderstandings later. If my impression is right, I'm really sorry to have to disappoint you, but I think it's only fair towards you to know it sooner rather than later. If I'm wrong, then let's just nevermind all this, and let's continue to be friends!"
In other words, the basic, vanilla friendzoning. Now, chances are it won't do the trick except for a while. But when she feels that she was friendly and fair the first time, she won't feel as bad to turn up the intensity on the next round if necessary.
Also, help her understands that sexual rejection not only hurts at the time, but every time he sees her. So, if he breaks contact entirely, at least for a time, it's probably not in order to punish her, or due to being childishly butthurt. He's just doing pain management.
Corvinus,
Yeah, that's kind of what I told her. Apparently he texts her way more than any respecting man should without reciprocation. So I told her to not text him at all, except for her apologies for not getting drinks Thursday. I thought that if we all went out as a group it would be fine, as it wouldn't seem a date-like setting and she could get more comfortable with him, but when that happens it should be someone else to invite him. And yes, the oneitis seems strong, but to be fair he just moved here a month and a half ago.
Markku, I think she knows she came off too strong in the beginning, but concerts do serve alcohol. (Not excusing it, mind you.) And yeah, I really would like there to be a vanilla friendzone because I see potential, but I don't want him to get hurt and I don't want her to feel awkward.
sexual rejection not only hurts at the time, but every time he sees her.
Yeah, I tried to emphasize this. That being (in her mind extremely) explicit, really isn't as bad as hints that could be taken either way. Because then he could sort of be at peace and be a regular guy again, which is probably how guys are at their highest attractiveness anyways. And then she might start to see him as a prospect. But when he's sending her 4x as many texts as she is responses, there's no way that would ever work.
Oh, he's going to get hurt. There's no way around that. All that can be prevented is being extra asshole in the process, or leading him on longer than what already has happened. The time during which she hadn't realized what's going on, is morally fine. Any time longer than that is not.
Agreed. I have no doubt it will hurt him. But I'm trying to keep her from being that extra asshole and tell him straight up she's not interested (now). She won't add the now, but that's probably for the best.
Vox, I'm sure someone has said this before, but I really wish you had ranked your categories as alpha, beta, gamma, delta, etc. - in the proper order of the Greek alphabet.
So, maybe I should have said "hurt anymore than necessary" instead of "hurt."
Also note a subtle difference to the usual, clumsy friendzoning, in which the woman is asking to remain friends regardless of his sexual feelings. Here, it is asked only if she had read the situation wrong.
Now, of course it isn't REALLY wrong, the reality is obvious. But this shouldn't piss off as much, and prompt the response "I already have enough friends." It just leaves the choice to him.
First, she had her really shitty blog about how she's obsessed to the point of OCD about rectangles:
http://thingsthatarerectangles.wordpress.com/
Then, unable to stop OCD-ing about rectangles, she started her own dating blog: http://menthatarerectangles.wordpress.com/
But note her
post which begins thusly:
I came to a realization a couple of days ago. I’m really bad at dating, and really fucked up about men. Men scare and confuse me. I don’t know how to handle them, so I am clumsy and make poor choices. I text too much or too little. I assume they don’t like me from the beginning, so I alienate them. Or, like in this blog, I write men off as pathetic because I don’t want to feel hurt or scared or sad or vulnerable.
Plus, there’s the obvious fact that I’m the common denominator in all of these situations. I’m smart enough to have always seen that, but, lately, thinking about it, I realize more and more how much dysfunction I bring to the dates I go on.
Sidenote: She also says that some of her dates were "gay to pay". Um, shouldn't someone who is a WRITER be knowledgeable enough about the language she writes in, and figures of speech, to figure out that the phrase is "gay FOR pay" ???
She ends the post with:
So, I’ve decided to suspend the illustrious Men That Are Rectangles for an undetermined period of time. Because I need to learn to cut men some slack. And, more importantly, I need to face my demons. I need to feel scared and confused and vulnerable. I need to acknowledge that sometimes I suck. And that sometimes I’m pissed at a guy or kind of hurt because he rejected me, and that doesn’t mean he sucks. It just means I’m a human being, and I’m interacting with other human beings, and we’re all trying to figure things out.
Thank you for all of the really amazing feedback and love that you’ve given me, dear readers. I’ll keep you posted on what comes next.
Apparently, despite that moment of rationality, since then, she hasn't learned shit.
begins
That thar's some comedy gold
This is all quite pathetic. She's had more feedback here on the very FIRST day of the FIRST post than she has had since Jan 11, 2014, over a span of 10 postings on her own blog (grand total responses: 2, 1 each to two different postings on ther blog about 7 months ago).
Eric,
The girl has two choices if she wants to give a firm no. First, she just avoids and ignores him. It's the coward's route, but sometimes, faced with someone who inexplicably still finds hope even in a firm "no," it's all that's left. But if she goes to the same church as the guy, this might not be an option at all. Second, she gives him a flat no that includes an apology: "Look, I know I made a mistake at that concert. I shouldn't have made out with you. I'm sorry. It sent the wrong signals. I'm not interested. Please stop calling." Don't let the conversation drag out with explanations beyond that. He'll be hurt either way, but less so than if she strings him along with a misleading, manipulative "let's be friends" line.
Of course, if you are interested in playing matchmaker, you're probably better off slipping the guy some advice. Should he stop calling her without her asking or giving him a no, and then should she happen to see him hanging out with some other good-looking girls, his attractiveness will probably go up several levels in her mind.
buzzardist,
Indeed. I will have to talk to him and tell him to back off, for the present time anyways. I like the preemptive strike idea, especially if she doesn't know I'm the one who ordered it. Good idea.
The most useful rejection message, though, would be "You almost had a chance at the concert but you totally blew it by acting needy. I recommend you get in touch with the "manosphere" in the internet, and better luck with your next conquest!"
But it's hard for a woman to pull off that much harshness, unless she's a bitch.
But it's hard for a woman to pull off that much harshness, unless she's a bitch.
And she's not. That's what I'm here for. As I feel at least a little responsible for getting her married off at a respectible age.
respectible.....respectable....dammit....
/Nate
Marshall probably won't listen to the good advice given by the men here, but as a long-time married woman I think he could benefit from delving into some red pill sites.
I'm beginning to conclude that ALL men eventually absorb the red pill - at some point before they die. While I hate to put it crudely, the question is ultimately one of how they absorb it: as a pill, or as a suppository?
call her eLieza
"Everyone knows Insanitybytes is GG is byteme is yttiK right?"
Obviously, and it's killing her that her attention-whoring troll limelight has been stolen by a younger woman like eLIESa. Even High Arka...pompous pseudo-religious fraud that she is...represents a more sophisticated class of troll than yttik.
respectible
Respectabiggle!
Conscientia Republicae said...
Tobias,
5? Wow that's either generous or you're already drunk on a Tuesday morning.
3, tops.
Let me defend myself.... ehem...
She was wearing makeup.
Nate said...
obviously AG needs to learn something from 4Chan... The proper response to this chick, as always, is "Tits or GTFO".
And there's our thread winner.
Eric Wilson... if you want the guy to get a better chance at your cousin.... do the following...
Step 0. [Insering after list was made up] Invite the boy over sometime when your cousin will be gone for a couple hours.
1. Explain to him that you like him, and you genuinely want him to be able to date her... and so you're going to lay it on him strait...that the way to make himself MORE attractive is to disappear suddenly. It doesn't matter what he's doing... regardless of whether it is hanging out with OTHER friends, or diving totally into a new hobby... ANYTHING as long as it's NOT having *ANY* contact with her... at all.
2. When the inevitable "But how will that make me MORE attractive to her?" question comes up, you just reply with:
"Remember this until the day you die, son: 'Women don't think like people'"
3. Tell him that if he has the urge to call or text her, to instead reroute that urge into something else... even if it's calling or texting YOU... just so long as it's not her.
4. He will probably be suspicious that you're trying to brush him off, to open the opportunity up for some other guy.... Not sure how to handle that, other than that is something you'll have to find a solution for.
5. Tell him that, there *IS* a chance she could meet some guy, and fall for him immediately... but that on his present course of action, that could happen anyway, as she has absolutely ZERO attraction for him at the present time and foreseeeable future until HE makes himself more desirable.
6. Then, and ONLY then, tell him that if she were to see, or hear about him being with another woman, it will definitely make her view him as more attractive. Tell him the secret that it does NOT have to be a girlfriend, or anything serious... just the mere ACT of him going on a date with another woman... and word getting back to your cousin one way or another will start winding up her attraction hamster.
7. Have a bunch of GOOD pages from various manosphere blogs printed out -- put them in his hand. Sit down and review what's in them.
@Aaron
My stepson is 17. He's not sure what his religious convictions are at this point, but he sure is interested in girls. He had his heart broken at 15 by a girl he spent a fortune (in time and money) on, but came home one day to find her facebook status had changed in the half hour he was on the train from her place.
Anyway, I told him: look Son, the game is very much like playing with a dog. If you chase a dog, what does it do? It runs away. If you run away from a dog, on the other hand? Right, it chases you. Now, you wanna chase, or you wanna be chased? It's your call. It's is always your call ...
(I was very careful to emphasise that women are not dogs and it is wrong to think of them that way even though some of them are bitches. C'est la vie.)
He has told every girl since then that he has no interest in having a girl friend, and they're lining up around the block.
If I'd had me for a father ...
"She was wearing makeup."
God bless Anthony Jeselnik.
Erik,
She wants to friendzone all the men around her because ?
I think you are misreading the situation, JCclimber. It's a case of a blue pill suitor acting needy, and causing her constant annoyance because she doesn't know how to tell him to stop in a way that isn't excessively bitchy. And Eric thinks that this particular fellow has some promise, if only he could be converted to red pill. So, he wants to come up with a strategy that gives some time for this conversion, while not completely separating them.
As soon as I saw the number of comments, I knew Eliza must be defending herself.
Her questions make it fairly plain what kind of story she is planning to write: the pain of not being in a committed relationship makes all these nice christian men believe very unchristian things! Let us pity them in a condescending fashion "
She wouldn't even think this was a hit piece, but rather a keen and insightful glimpse into what makes these guys hate women.
And of course, being Jewish, any opportunity to slam Christians (whether actual Christians or just men designated as being Christians) is one she'll latch onto if at all possible.
wh was getting more annoying than Eliza. Make a point and get past it.
Cail, I think of your name as "Cail Corshicoff (sp?)" for some reason. Not accurate, but that got ingrained into my brain a long time back.
Speaking of relationships, I haven't walked all this perfectly and only came to a clearer understanding of things in the past few years, but I have always been strong on specific roles in marriage and I am going on 26 years of marriage at the end of this month. We have survived having all 4 of our children (adopted) punt us out of their lives as they became adults, so clearly we have something firm. I credit God first of all, but my wife and I both have to walk this out of course.
Markku, a quote from Eric's original request:
"Any suggestions as to how I might advise her? I really do think they would be good together, but she just takes awhile to warm to people. (She is relatively red pill aware as we've talked a lot about it, and she knows what the friendzone is and admits to immediately putting everyone there to start, which is backed up by what I've seen in the two years she has lived with me.)"
I'm wondering why she "immediately" puts everyone there to start. something fishy going on there.
Well, now that I'm pretty thoroughly Red Pill, the overwhelming majority of men trying to court women that I see around me, cause me constant facepalm. I'm literally ashamed on their behalf.
So, should there be a woman who tries to avoid the thugs and the playas (who are pretty much the only men who have this stuff down), I can completely understand how the remaining men wouldn't cause romantic interest in a woman very quickly. It's almost a wonder when they cause it at all.
I see no reason for concern based on what has been said so far. This doesn't, of course, mean that I rule out the fishy, either.
I'm wondering why she "immediately" puts everyone there to start. something fishy going on there.
The only thing fishy going on here is that she is not being honest about her actions. She may say that she puts every guy in the friendzone to start, but I don't for a second believe any woman who says this. This is an excuse that a woman concocts to justify friendzoning someone. By pretending that she puts every guy there, she makes it seem to herself and to others that she's not being mean to this guy--"It's not him; it's just me."
Of course, that blanket friendzoning claim might also be an open invitation--"My romantic affections are a closed garden, and if you want them you're going to have to climb over the friendzone wall." To put it another way: "I'm not a slut, so you're going to have to work to win my affections."
But I think we all know what will happen if an alpha walks into the room and makes the girl swoon. There will be no friendzone.
Heck, there wasn't even an initial friendzone with this guy who is now pining after her. Yeah, a little alcohol at a concert was involved, but she definitely wasn't friendzoning him from the start when she was making out with him. Which is maybe why she's friendzoning him now. If a drunk makeout session leaves a girl a little embarrassed, and if the guy is not attractive enough the next day to keep her in a swoon, she's all the more likely to set up that friendzone as a way to reaffirm her virtue and either push the guy out the door or at least make him work a little at romancing her before she gives any more rewards.
The problem is that this kid is ceding to her that position of power, letting her decide everything, including sexual engagement and commitment, which makes her respect him all the less.
By pretending that she puts every guy there, she makes it seem to herself and to others that she's not being mean to this guy--"It's not him; it's just me.
You know, not being attracted to someone, or not getting romantically involved with him in the absence of attraction, is not being mean. The only problem with women with regards to friendzone is that they usually refuse to admit to the men, that assholes DO attract them. If men knew this, they would at least understand how to start fixing the problem.
Women don't actually owe any given man anything more than basic courtesy. They don't owe pussy. All the problems come down to the fact that what women say they are attracted to, is so far from truth.
I'm wondering why she "immediately" puts everyone there to start. something fishy going on there.
I think Markku is right. If she doesn't want a player, it makes sense from a female standpoint to do what she is doing. Add to that how many people will tell you that some of the best relationships come from being friends first, and it would explain her thinking. It's not unlikely that this is a way to protect herself from becoming involved with a player. If she doesn't ride the carousel, this is pretty likely.
~ Stingray
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