As more research is done on the human genome and more people seek genetic testing, researchers, physicians, genetic counselors and ethicists are struggling with the issues of how to present the new information to patients and whether certain findings should be presented at all.In other words, if a woman might have done something wrong: DO NOT DISCLOSE THE INFORMATION TO ANYONE! If a man might have done something wrong: DISCLOSE THE INFORMATION TO THE LEGAL AUTHORITIES AND COMMENCE A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION!
A paper published Monday in the leading journal Pediatrics tackles a controversial discovery that can come out of genetic testing: when a child’s biological parent turns out to be someone else.
Whether that occurs through a switch at the hospital, a swap of embryos or sexual infidelity, genetic testing can bring such previously unknown facts to light. No matter the cause, it presents an ethical dilemma for medical professionals and one likely to become more common as genetic testing more more widespread. It has triggered a fierce and complex debate about whether parents — or those who might find out they are not true parents — have a right to know such information.
In the Pediatrics paper, ethicists at the University of Pennsylvania argue in favor of letting the parents of patients know that these facts can generally be found in the course of a test but will not be revealed to them.
“Because there isn’t a national consensus,” said co-author Autumn Fiester, director of education in the Department of Medical Ethics and Health Policy at the University of Pennsylvania, “getting a proactive policy that could prevent the harms that are taking place seemed like an imperative to address.”
Without such a policy, Fiester said, after the tests are run, parents might be confronted with being told that there’s something they may need to know about their parentage.
“Dangle something like that in front of any human being, and they’re going to be coerced to have that information, even if they will rue the day when they said yes,” she said.
Current guidelines from the American Academy of Pediatrics and the American College of Medical Genetics and Genomics (ACMG) advise speaking to patients about the issue of incidental findings but do not recommend disclosure or nondisclosure.....
While nondisclosure may be a good idea for avoiding family problems, there need to be some exceptions, said Arthur Caplan, a professor of bioethics at NYU Langone Medical Center and formerly of the University of Pennsylvania. For example, lab technicians may see DNA that leads them to suspect rape or incest. This type of finding might need to be reported because of the possibility of sexual abuse.
Now, what was that about "equality under the law" again?
32 comments:
I wonder when the common man will spurn the professors and other assorted "experts" because of bullshit like this. If we can tell a father that he isn't the real father, then he deserves to know that his wife is an adulteress.
Feminism was never about equality or elevating women to the level of men. It was about getting all the benefits of men (sex from ALPHAs, money from BETAs) without having to own to the responsibilities of their own bad behavior.
Western society can't collapse soon enough. I think a few public stonings or beheadings (what is the penalty in Islam for women who cheat on their husbands?) would put a stop to this immediately. And its for the children because you know - mom is a slut and might pass on that so better to kill her outright then let it continue.
"Now, what was that about "equality under the law" again?"
There is no equality under the law and there never has been. All's fair in love and war, remember? Fems know perfectly well that what they seek is an unjust system that exists to serve the needs of women. That's kind of the whole point.
What's so ironic is that they learned it from men, the same kind of men who now advocate violence against women, providing feminism all the fuel it needs to self propagate and validate it's own existence. Well played, girls, well played.
In other words, if a woman might have done something wrong: DO NOT DISCLOSE THE INFORMATION TO ANYONE! If a man might have done something wrong: DISCLOSE THE INFORMATION TO THE LEGAL AUTHORITIES AND COMMENCE A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION!
That's an important point. My gut instinct is silence is the better policy in these matters. But if a policy of silence applies to information men would want to know then it applies to information women would want known.
Otherwise we are talking about one class of human beings (females) who are privileged under the law and another class of human beings (men) who are in a state of oppression under the law. And that's not something a decent man should support.
@Remo
I'm noticing a lot of us saying things like that. But I think that's wrong on many levels. First off, a collapse of civilization is not something any sane man wants to find himself in the middle of. As bad as this is, chaos is worse.
Second, the non Western civilizations do not have it so much better. case in point
Third, I notice that many of us are saying these things "I cant' wait for western civ to end" are saying them in a passive voice. That is, a feminine mindset of waiting for something to happen rather than going out and making something positive happen. America was built it was conquered men stood up and fought to impose their will and vision on reality.
That's the masculine genius.
And I believe that the biggest problem right now facing us men, is that a great many of us are emotionally castrated. That is, we have no sense of entitlement, of will to make something happen, to impose our will and vision on the world and most of all, to fight for it. We just go along and bury our frustrations and hope someone somewhere will magically make it better.
My point is, this lack of fighting spirit is what we have lost most of all. It is the death of us. The rest of the problem, feminist bitches, manboobish white knights, illuminati, churchians, gold diggers, etc etc. All of these problems are solvable if we have the desire and the will to fight But I don't believe we do. We're missing something in our souls. In some way, we are all a little dead and broken. And this is the real problem.
Oh GG. Your first paragraph was about the most accurate thing you have ever types here. I started to have some hope. Then I read the nonsense in your second paragraph. Women always have to cast themselves as the victim at the precise moment they are being the perpetrator.
When I had genetic testing done a couple of years ago, I had to sign a disclaimer stating that I understood I could discover information I didn't like, such as parenting, ethnicity, or possible medical issues. Since then, the U.S. government has made it illegal for companies providing the service to reveal medical genetic information. It doesn't altogether surprise me that parentage would be the next set of genetic information kept private from us. Genetic testing used to be about information--putting it in the hands of us, the ordinary people. Now, I imagine, at some point the government will simply have access to a database of information about us and bar us from access to it. I suspect it already does. Suck it. He who owns the information has the power.
Trust, listen to me. I don't perceive myself as a victim of anything at all, in fact the exact opposite. I have been unbelievably and remarkably blessed. That is where the strength is, the power, not in victimhood. As SomeGuy says, "That's the masculine genius." Amen! Yes, please, impose your will and vision on the world!
What you keep perceiving as an attack is nothing of the sort. It's just a girl's plaintive wail, like WTH are you guys doing wallowing in victimhood like a bunch of feminists??
this is why men need paternity testing immediately when the child is born.
Some dude: I live in China, I'm already free from the West and I like it better thank you very much. So yes the U.S. can collapse and I would celebrate its end as would much of the rest of the world. Positives? No more drones bombing weddings, no more Hollywood filth, and yes no more American women acting as they do. Oh they'll still be there but they'll change or die exactly as nature intended. Can't happen soon enough IMHOP. Will something else evil replace it? In time of course but given the concentrated evil that is the U.S. right now better a rotating seat of ultimate evil than an unchanging one. The longer it sits the worse it gets so yes a change would be a positive.
The Chinese government would never do bad things? Must be fun in your fairyland.
A collapse of civilization would be a really bad thing. A fool rejoices in destruction, even when it is necessary or a logical consequence.
Jesus GG. You just said in your own words that an unjust system is used to benefit women at the expense of men, then turned around and said women leaned this from men. If that's isn't acting like the victim when being the perpetrator then I don't know what is. You contradict yourself frequently then act shocked when you hear about it.
this is why men need paternity testing immediately when the child is born.
Actually, it should done well before child is born, as part of the amneocentesis process.
And then there was the case of the woman who was accused by government agents of not being her own children's mother, because a genetic test showed that they weren't - even one the one that the government social worker watched being born.
Turns out the woman in question was a genetic chimera.
I don't think mandatory paternity testing is a good idea, mostly bc the government will find a way to abuse it.
However, I do think a father should have the right (not the requirement) to have one prior to child support.
Those of you decrying the rest of us who are anticipating the collapse of Western Civ miss an important point.
Some of us seem to be eagerly awaiting it. Most of us are anticipating it with 100% certainty, but are not looking forward to it. We just know that it will happen, comment on the effects it will have, and continue with our lives. And part of those lives includes preparing in little ways and big ways for when that collapse happens.
Those who are prepared for a disaster don't celebrate the coming disaster, but neither do they freak out about it hysterically nor do they hide their heads under the pillow and pretend that it can still be prevented. Somehow.
You see, those with an IQ above a certain level who haven't been blinded by leftist idealogy, realize that the collapse cannot be prevented. It can't. It can only have some of its effects mitigated for some portion of the population.
A remnant always survives. Our goal is to increase the size of that remnant, and make sure our family and friends can be included in it.
It can be summarized in your reaction to the book of Revelation in the Bible.
Do you view it as one of the most glorious and positive books of the Bible...
or
Do get depressed by the plagues and destruction and beasts and the fact that most people will be destroyed?
this is why men need paternity testing immediately when the child is born. Just don't sign the birth certificate unless one is done.
If I were to take the pro-vaxxer arguments to their logical conclusion, it would actually be child abuse to not genetically test every baby and disclose all information in order to protect the health of the child. Then again, I don't see the pro-vaxxers demanding the immediate deportation of every person that cannot provide absolute documentation that their vaccinations adhere to US standards in order to protect the herd. And as the saying goes "I will believe its evil, when the people telling me its evil act like its evil"
as part of the amneocentesis process
Is there a medical reason, for the health of the baby, to have one of these performed? I thought it was only about making an informed decision to kill the fetus.
Those who are prepared for a disaster don't celebrate the coming disaster, but neither do they freak out about it hysterically nor do they hide their heads under the pillow and pretend that it can still be prevented. Somehow.
I would even venture to say most people that think it will collapse will miss many of the luxuries Wst. Civilization has afforded.
Great blogs, Keep up the good work!
Exactly. The collapse of civilization will be replaced by something that keeps the surface trappings but is hollow at the core. Much of the luxuries of the modern age will still be available. Just not available to most people in abundance. Toilet paper? Yes. Soft and inexpensive toilet paper? No.
Expensive cable service? Yes. But at a cost that is higher than now, and with fewer of the channels that you actually like to watch.
Running water? Yes. Running water that is pure, clean, safe to drink, and inexpensive? No.
New car? Yes. But base models with few options for most people. Lower reliability. Higher maintenance costs. Higher gas costs.
1. Amniocentesis should be avoided as the risks usually outweigh the benefits.
2. Dear shitheads who think themselves wise enough to make decisions to keep this information from parents, fathers especially. I have developed my own policy regarding your health information. Let's say I discover that you have incurable cancer, but will you be symptom-free until you randomly pass away in the night in the next 2-3 weeks. I think this will make you sad, so I'm not going to tell you. You will not be able to make any arrangements or say farewell to your loved ones. Feel a headache coming on? Nothing to worry about, I'm sure. wink wink nudge nudge
I completely agree with Some Dude on the basic problem, that too many men are sitting around passively instead of actively trying to make something. As far as Remo's attitude, he's uncivilized. Sure, sure, Obama and the rest of post-civilized and no damn good for anybody but themselves, but Western Civilization had a great many accomplishments that are worth trying to preserve. Accepting the Chinese version of pre-civilization is not a great solution. It's a devolution to a world of despotism and limited horizons.
JClimber has, I think, a different attitude. A better one. Doing what he can to preserve the better parts of Western Civilization. I don't think his attitude is necessarily incompatible with Some Dude's. "Collapse" is an interesting word. I agree that a collapse is inevitable, but what - exactly - is going to collapse? The post-civilized feminist-centric parasitical society, certainly. But how much more? If we could firewall it there, that would be idea.
Can we? I dunno, but I think it's worth the effort to try.
JClimber,
I didn't see many who were decrying the expectation of a collapse. It is more the rejoicing in it or exploitation of it that I find reprehensible. It will come in some form, though I doubt it will be in your neat and tidy package. I only look forward to the fact it may clear things out, but we don't know if what comes next will be better or even how long the transition will take.
I have no belief that this collapse is necessarily what is covered in Revelation. Those living during the Mongol invasions probably felt like that too, but that was a long time ago, so bad things can happen and not be THE bad thing. Imagine living through Mao's reign of terror, especially for the one living in China now. Worse things have happened too without being the end.
OT: Two links that seem appropriate to this site.
No Girls Allowed at Finnish Hearthstone Tournament
http://www.actiontrip.com/news/no-girls-allowed-at-finnish-hearthstone-tournament/070214_8
Lindsay Lohan Sues Rockstar Over Grand Theft Auto 5
http://www.actiontrip.com/news/lindsay-lohan-sues-rockstar-over-grand-theft-auto-5/070214_10
This sort of shit makes me rage. Just how do they think they have the right not to tell the parents? This is so fucking biased. Unless there's been a mix up or something the woman KNOWS it's her child, because it came out of her. The man well, it's a gamble on her loyalty.
If the man doesn't get to find out, then he has no way of knowing whether his genes will prevail or not. He could go on blissful thinking he has a child now so his genetic line is sorted, and not rush to have any more, when really he's not passed them on at all.
This is effectively biologically killing a man, who might be a good man with good genes. Purely to cover up possible sluttish actions, blergh. Social shite should never have any bearing on whether a man's genes live or die. It should be a core right for male.
I live a simple life with a few luxuries (but not many) and I am content. I have a large savings with no government making daily excuses to take it from me or telling me I'm a terrorist for not putting it into an institution of their choice so they can gamble with it. My tax rate is low, much lower than it was when I lived in the U.S., and I don't hear about or see daily SWAT raids and I can go a week without seeing a police officer. I make and keep most of my own money and I do not yearly prostrate myself to an agency to determine what meager percentage of my income I am allowed to keep. I am aware I am alien here and could be asked to leave at any time. I am also aware that years ago I begun work getting another passport and I have many other places I can go and stay. Back in the U.S., my "home", I was treated far worse by the government, women, and people in general so I left and made a new life with no regrets. I don't care if that's "alpha" by someone else's definition - I'm happy with my choice and that is what ultimately matters to me.
The day to day tyrannies Americans suffer are outrageous and you don't really see it until you are free from it for a few years. I still remember them and reading articles now I just shake my head wondering how I put up with it for so long. So yes I want that to go away and I don't want that to continue to spill over and poison the rest of the world and if that disrupts someones cable television schedule well that isn't my problem nor should it be. I don't wish anyone ill but neither your or my wishes will change what happens anyway - it *will* go away for the simple reason that it is not sustainable and because it is evil it pleases me that it will go away. Cheers.
It is more the rejoicing in it or exploitation of it that I find reprehensible.
The people that believe the collapse will come to pass can never exploit it. They may either be seen to prudently plan for it or naively waste resources for something that will never come to pass, but not exploit it.
What Al Gore does is exploitation. He makes millions selling disaster porn to people. If he honestly believed the snake oil he was selling he would be investing millions in land in northern Canada.
With apologies to our host for being off topic I have a friend here who works in a paternity testing lab in Sichuan. It is doing a brisk business here because women are the same the world over. It comes with the legal stipulation that you must be able to afford to pay the fee in order to do a test and if you do pay they tell you the dispassionate truth. Very oppressive I know and certainly not anything anyone in the West is used too - truth? - without government and doctors and lawyers filtering it for you?!? Madness!!!
Silly Rabbit, this isn't Western Civilization - its zionist bullshit wrapped in rainbow ribbons with pretty glitter poured on it. Men should know whether they're the Father up front. Love is fleeting, but garnished wages go on forever, like unfair unjust taxation. If women are unfaithful, its easy to tell. When women do something wrong, they treat you better than usual. When she's really nice, its a TRAP!
If genetic testing were done while the baby is still in the womb and the results given to the putative parents, it would have a big damping effect on women screwing around - because they would know there was 100% chance they would be found out before they could get the guy fully invested in the baby.
Fuck this gay Earth. I am out.
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