Monday, June 9, 2014

The decline of marriage

A few years ago, I pointed out that the combination of female hypergamy and the increasing F/M sex ratio at university would inevitably lead to at least one-third of female college graduates never marrying. It's not the only reason, of course, but professional statistical analysts in the UK indicate that this is now happening.
Half of today’s 20-year-olds will never marry, striking research reveals. Instead, couples are increasingly choosing to cohabit without ever deciding to commit. A report published today using the latest data from the Office for National Statistics reveals a generational shift away from the institution of marriage, with youngsters far less likely ever to wed than their parents and grandparents.

The research by the Marriage Foundation shows that, for a variety of reasons, 47 per cent of women and 48 per cent of men aged 20 will never marry. The baby boomer generation – born between the end of the Second World War and the early 1960s – has maintained a healthy level of marriage, with 87 per cent of men and 92 per cent of women having married at some stage.

But subsequent generations are facing a sharp decline in marriage rates. Half of 40-year-olds today are already married, but they are not expected to reach the levels set by their parents.
This is a dire warning for Western civilization. There are increasing indications that the West cannot survive without Christianity, and there is almost no chance it can survive without either Christianity or marriage.

No-fault divorce has to be eliminated now. Adultery should be criminalized, alimony should be eliminated, and child support payments set to a minimal standard. People worry far too much about the potential costs to divorcees and the children of divorce, but divorce is a female industry and the costs to the never-married and the illegitimate children are considerably higher.

86 comments:

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

I think we're well past the warning stage. What we're seeing is accelerating decline.

tacticaltoolbox said...

And, custody should always be awarded to the father, no matter what. In fact, I like the idea that the father has no choice, he must take the kids.

En-sigma said...

I am increasingly convinced that there is an unspoken majority that is content to let it burn. Politics reflect it, the economy reflects it, and the MGTOW movement reflects it. It may not happen in our time, but it will happen and will be rebuilt. Fatalistic, but understandable.

Bob Wallace said...

Until the 20th century custody always went to the father. Single mothers are automatically abusers, contrary to their hallucinations. I've seen boys without fathers attach themselves to me in a heartbeat.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

All signs are that America is finished. The decline of marriage, plummeting fertility rates, economic crisis, decadent culture, open borders, political extremism. America is going out of business.

RkVDTAwYvMKTVg574JNfdjGfSA9b_L2GAA-- said...

You'll never see those changes. Men commit adultery too so criminalizing it is a wash. You will see changes if and when there are widespread instances of well educated women paying alimony to their lower wage earning husbands. When the laws that have plundered husband's wallets are used against high earning wives then and only then will you see any change in divorce culture. I'm not holding my breath.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

VD,

You need to go more black knight in this. Fight not for the elimination of no-fault divorce and the criminalization of adultery (which it is in several states), but for the following:

-Total elimination of child support and alimony.
-Automatic joint custody unless one party is missing, in prison, or openly consents to a different agreement in a court proceeding.
-Allow each spouse to keep all the property they brought with them into the marriage. Any property gained while married will be split evenly between the two.

When confronted by naysayers, simply point out that all genders are equal and to not acknowledge this in divorce is oppressive.

b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 said...

Vox you are being silly. Only vaccinations should be forced on people against their will for the good of the country.

GG said...

"No-fault divorce has to be eliminated now. Adultery should be criminalized, alimony should be eliminated..."

Honestly Vox, rather than attempting to mandate misery, why don't you advocate for the positive aspects of marriage? I mean good grief, how authoritarian of you.

There's this weird dichotomy going on where marriage is so awesome and wonderful, gays think it should be a civil right, and yet heterosexual marriage is allegedly nothing but misery, divorce, and alimony payments. One of the best kept secrets in our society is how amazing marriage can be, financially, emotionally, spiritually, sexually, health wise, for the children, for the community, as a united front against abuse from the State. The benefits are endless, not just for society, but for individuals in general.

Crowhill said...

We've eroded marriage bit by bit over the years to the point that there's little (or no, or even anti-) incentive to marry -- unless you happen to be a conservative religious type who still holds to the old rules. For the majority of society, it's a fairly trivial add-on.

Marriage is the most successful institution on the planet, and modern geniuses have managed to destroy it. It's enough to make you believe in the devil.

jimmy-jimbo said...

Half are choosing to cohabitat. This is a choice like abortion or pregnancy. People are not choosing to marry.

I think you left one thing off. More fathers should receive child custody. It should be a wake-up call to women that they don't own their children, which belong to both parents. Many fathers do a better job than their mothers. Children have better results with a father.

The best way to eliminate no-fault divorce is instituting pre-nuptial agreements with the marriage license. The state should have no say if the couple decides the contractual agreement, thus finding fault by their own terms.

76a86186-641e-11e3-a4c7-000bcdcb5194 said...

I think it would be worthwhile to require both parties to submit a full financial statement in order to get a marriage license. Especially these days, when so many people come to a marriage with substantial assets and liabilities.

And have a strict policy that what you entered a marriage with (in both assets and debts) is what you come out with. Any net profit gets split, but not the initial capitalization.

The Remnant said...

Now you're speaking my language. However much game we men learn as individuals, it cannot compensate for the loss of institutional restraints on perfidy. Civilization -- especially Western civilization -- needs "beta" and other assorted non-"alpha" males in order to survive. You can't sustain a modern society by slanting reproduction toward those who display the most primitive tendencies; in the span of only two generations, this has managed to cripple the work of centuries.

Hanns Strudle extra gooey said...

I don't think we can halt the decline; the generation coming up --unless raised in a SOLID Christian home--are being spoon fed a healthy diet of freaky, deviant sex, the worship of self, and YOLO bullshite in pop culture and public schools. And, this applies to many so-called Christians, too. Many I know just dabble in Christianity; they toss it aside to absorb the pop culture that is destroying it. Maybe it's supposed to play out like this...God help us.

Brad Andrews said...

You have to keep it simple if you want it to work. That is why I would support the basic proposals in the OP. Make marriage something you can't jump out of so easily and make harsh penalties for being the one who broke it. You would still have some challenges, but that would balance it far more than any other scheme that put the government in too many more aspects of it.

My wife and I regularly talk about how these things "won't happen," yet they will when the system collapses. It will not happen in a slow gradual way, but "what can't continue, won't" is still true.

2870b918-77c0-11e3-b9bd-000bcdcb8a73 said...

Allow each spouse to keep all the property they brought with them into the marriage. Any property gained while married will be split evenly between the two.

Isn't that how it works now? When did it change?

Vox said...

Vox, rather than attempting to mandate misery, why don't you advocate for the positive aspects of marriage? I mean good grief, how authoritarian of you.

There are no positive aspects of marriage that substitute for the negative aspects of Marriage 2.0. That is why people don't want to get married anymore and that is why marriage rates are plunging. Happy talk is not even a potential solution.

TL;DR: shut up, GG.

de ti said...

'There are no positive aspects of marriage that substitute for the negative aspects of Marriage 2.0. That is why people don't want to get married anymore and that is why marriage rates are plunging.'

To spell it out further -- there are no positive aspects of marriage that outweigh the risks of Marriage 2.0. Women want to put off marriage to the last possible minute. Men get tired of waiting around for women to get done doing whatever they're doing other than actually looking realistically for men who might actually be willing to marry them.

Sure a man can get married now -- in an environment in which just under half of all marriages fail; and most of those failures are because the female half of the equation just doesn't want to be married anymore.

pdwalker said...

Civilization will need to be reset before the rules can change, in my opinion.

Retrenched said...

Related...

http://no-maam.blogspot.com/2010/07/zenpriest-10-when-mens-trust-is-gone.html

tacticaltoolbox said...

GG, I would agree somewhat on the authoritarian part, though I doubt you would support the state not criminalizing murder. I prefer adultery to be a positive defense to charges of murder. There, all fixed, GG.

Adultery as a protection to marriage is pretty darned essential to civilization.

APL said...

"with youngsters far less likely ever to wed than their parents and grandparents."

The Matriarchy saw this comming years ago. That's why a 'common law' wife now has the same legal 'privilege' as a 'conventional' wife.

Trust said...

And here we have yet another "traditional woman" wanting the benefits of marriage preached and the consequences ignored.

Best translates as "I want the power to destroy my husband on a whim."

If marriage was as lopsided in man's favor as it is in a woman's, Oprah would be doing heartfelt tear jerking shows about it and feminists would arrange for the nations Capitol to be stormed.

cailcorishev said...

There are no positive aspects of marriage that substitute for the negative aspects of Marriage 2.0.

Because Marriage 2.0 cancels out the positive aspects of Marriage 1.0. The positive aspects of Marriage 1.0, for the man, were exclusive and regular access to her sexual and reproductive organs. That's it. All the rest -- the companionship, the cooking, the shared living costs -- all that stuff is wonderful, but you can get it from a really good roommate. Sex, with the guarantee that any children that come from her loins are his, is the only part of the relationship that he can't get without marriage (assuming he's Christian and considers sex outside of marriage a sin; I can't imagine why a man would marry today otherwise).

Marriage 2.0 allows her to withhold sex whenever she likes, lets her take his children away from him if she wants (in most cases), and provides no consequences if she commits adultery or cuckolds him. That leaves nothing of Marriage 1.0 that he can't get from a roommate.

Trust said...

GG, imagine if you married, and if you husband left you he got virtually everything. And you were legally mandated to have sex with him weekly and cook him five dinners a week, even if he was living with ans screwing someone else. Then imagine you find out he impregnated another women behind your back and that you were now legally required to pay child support because the child was conceived during the marriage.

Then imagine men of all people advising you as a woman to marry for the benefits, while they sit perched where women sit today.

Would you entertain such a deal? Even thougt "not all men ate like that?" It's much easier for you as a woman to tell us it's a great deal. In guessing the fox wouldn't advise the hens to stay out of the henhouse either.

Crowhill said...

>There are no positive aspects of marriage that substitute for the negative aspects of Marriage 2.0.

But it is possible (although difficult and perhaps dangerous) to try to live a Marriage 1.0 life.

St Swithun said...

From what I hear, your family court (USA) is as corrupt as ours (UK).

A huge improvement to men not getting married (i.e. even less getting married under marriage 2.0) would come from full and open disclosure of the activities of those courts - let sunshine flood in. And end use of fraudulent DV and kiddie-abuse accusations. She lies after a rigorous investigation? She goes to gaol.

If you wished to restart marriage as an institution then divorce has to stop being seen as a winning opportunity for women. Not just not be a win (which is usually true in the longer run), but be seen not to be a win (stark and clear - no remarriage, no upgrade, no millionaire handyman).

Ending no fault divorce in itself wouldn't change much (IMHO) as 'grounds for divorce' in the UK include 'unreasonable behaviour', which is as easy to bend as you might think. What it amounts to is "I want a divorce, it will happen one way or another, let's agree on some petty unreasonable behaviour that harms no one's reputation". The marriage is over, whether you want to call it 'no fault' or 'unreasonable behaviour'. Let's not get to that point in the first place.

The only real answer is for those going in knowing that it's a real commitment with real risks and those going out do it without material gain. No more woman getting a cash out for just being at home while he built an empire. No lady, you did not earn half of anything. You don't get the house. He does get 50:50 access to the kids if he so wishes. Visitation is enforced. She to he settlements are enforced as much as he to she. Basically sex-equality good and hard.

b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 said...

Because Marriage 2.0 cancels out the positive aspects of Marriage 1.0. The positive aspects of Marriage 1.0, for the man, were exclusive and regular access to her sexual and reproductive organs. That's it. All the rest -- the companionship, the cooking, the shared living costs -- all that stuff is wonderful, but you can get it from a really good roommate. Sex, with the guarantee that any children that come from her loins are his, is the only part of the relationship that he can't get without marriage (assuming he's Christian and considers sex outside of marriage a sin; I can't imagine why a man would marry today otherwise).

Yeah child rearing, security knowing your children wouldn't be ripped away from you and a much higher degree of certainty that they are in fact your kids, and a wife submitting to your headship are all bullshit and don't count.

cailcorishev said...

But it is possible (although difficult and perhaps dangerous) to try to live a Marriage 1.0 life.

A woman can choose to ignore the options given her by Marriage 2.0 and live on Marriage 1.0 terms as long as she likes. A man can only sign up and hope for the best -- or not. Whether the marriage is 1.0 or 2.0 is up to her, not him.

Yeah child rearing, security knowing your children wouldn't be ripped away from you and a much higher degree of certainty that they are in fact your kids, and a wife submitting to your headship are all bullshit and don't count.

Why are you listing Marriage 1.0 things? Those things aren't bullshit at all; they're great, but Marriage 2.0 doesn't promise any of them, which was the point. Read for comprehension.

michael savell said...

The best way is for the churches to get a grip and fight for heterosexual marriage rather than conforming
to atheistic principles .Wedding vows should not only be heard in church but kept a record of and should be a principle
for any legal dispute.Those vows to be solemn even though they may change from couple to couple-what could be simpler?If marriages continue to fail,as in the UK,Islam will finish up as the dominating factor,you'd better believe it
proportional representation will see to that.

GG said...

"There are no positive aspects of marriage that substitute for the negative aspects of Marriage 2.0. That is why people don't want to get married anymore and that is why marriage rates are plunging. Happy talk is not even a potential solution"

Baloney, Vox. You can't mandate and regulate love and you certainly can't remove all the risks.

St Swithun said...

Hot damn Retrenched, that link is twelve years old, but could have been written today

"
Thursday, January 10, 2002

Zenpriest #10 - When Men's Trust Is Gone

No fault divorce, paternity fraud, false allegations, the DV Gestapo and the fact that a woman can have a man turned into a criminal with one phone call - the list of reasons why men are absolute fools to trust any woman today just goes on and on. Sure, there are "exceptions", but that argument by itself pisses me off because it fails to recognize the personal devastation that so many men have been through and any man who embarks on a personal relationship with a woman risks these days.

As I frequently point out - only one out of six chambers of the gun is loaded in Russian Roulette, but you still don't see everyone playing it. The 16.67% of getting your brains blown out is still far better than the approximately 40% chance a man has of having his life destroyed by a relationship with a woman.
"

that's just the start of the article linked to. Such a good site, so easily forgotten in the whirl of new articles elsewhere.

St Swithun said...

@GG
but men can recognise a crap deal when they see it. you putting a little garnish on top of the turd doesn't stop it being a turd. (most) men aren't (quite so) prone to marketing BS as women are. that's why marketing is much more often aimed at women.

from a marketer
http://theredpillroom.blogspot.ca/2012/03/it-was-on-sale-myth-of-vagina-tax.html
an excerpt
"
Whole divisions arose to cater to women's specific consumer needs. Women are a marketer's wet dream. In advertising you have to convince men that a purchase is both prudent and thrifty. With women, you merely have to invoke anxiety about social ostracization ("Your girlfriends will talk about you if you don't buy this"), their innate craving to feel desired ("People will like you and want you more if you buy this") or change the packaging ("New! Same Great Sponges . . . Six NEW Colors!).
"

dalrock said...

One of the correcting factors as marriage rates continue to decline will be a reduction in GNP and tax revenues. The marriage based model of the family is akin to capitalism, where men have incentives to become and stay highly economically productive. The incentive is access to the most attractive women and the prestige of leading a family. Our new model (the child support model) is akin to Soviet Communism, where men are assigned a quota to meet on threats of imprisonment. Just as we saw with the cold war, the first model generates enormous surpluses while the latter is despised and creates a culture where men tend to do just enough to get by. The US and the UK are already seeing the fruits of our transition from an incentive based structure to a quota driven one, and this will only grow in magnitude.

The elites are quite willing to sacrifice millions of middle class and below kids to the divorce/broken home meat grinder to keep the new family model in place. But will they be willing to continue on as the tax revenues and GNP they rely on for their pet programs dry up?

cailcorishev said...

You can't mandate and regulate love and you certainly can't remove all the risks.

Strawman as usual. No one's suggesting you can.

But you can balance the risks better, instead of putting all the risk on the man as it's now set up. The more of the risk we move back to women -- who are generally more risk-averse than men -- the less divorce there will be.

You'll also notice (to head off another straw man) that no one's suggesting that we swing the pendulum all the way in the other direction, allowing a man to commit adultery, divorce his wife for "irreconcilable differences," kick her out of the house she paid for, give her every-other-weekend custody, and require her to pay child support. (Notice how ridiculous it sounds when you turn it around?) When we say the father should get custody, we also expect him to support the kids himself. When we say get rid of no-fault divorce, we mean for men and women equally. A man or woman wishing to divorce should have to prove something like adultery or leave with the shirt on his/her back.

This is about evening up the risks; it only seems like an imbalance the other way because you've been benefiting from the female imperative all your life.

Athor Pel said...

" June 9, 2014 at 11:16 AM GG said...
...
You can't mandate and regulate love and you certainly can't remove all the risks.
"



Can't mandate love? You don't even know what love is. You, like most women, think love is what happens between your legs. Since that is the case then yes, with your defintion of love it cannot be regulated since sexual attraction is almost purely biological.

Since your definition of love is wrong it also means that your conception of the problem is wrong. Your aren't looking at it through a cracked lense, you're frakking blind.

As for your interpretation of these remedies as removing risks, what is it about holding people to their word that you find so objectionable? Is avoidance of responsibility so indespensible to your daily life?


You would be much better off keeping your mouth shut. That's not just your net presence. Listen more, talk less.

GG said...

"but men can recognise a crap deal when they see it. you putting a little garnish on top of the turd doesn't stop it being a turd. (most) men aren't (quite so) prone to marketing BS as women are. that's why marketing is much more often aimed at women"

Of course women are more vulnerable to marketing than men are. What Vox attempts to dismiss as "happy talk" is actually marketing the benefits of marriage. Also marketing the benefits of men wouldn't hurt.

"You would be much better off keeping your mouth shut. That's not just your net presence. Listen more, talk less."

No chit Sherlock, but you obviously know nothing about women. We never shut up. Ever.

dalrock said...

@CG
You can't mandate and regulate love and you certainly can't remove all the risks.

What you are describing as marriage is really just another form of boyfriend and girlfriend, except women get cash and prizes. If you don't believe in real commitment in marriage, then you don't believe in the morality of marriage. Your articulating this does a service to Vox's readers, because it should help them know how to spot women like you and avoid marrying them. Marriage makes no sense if it has no moral meaning, and marrying a woman who doesn't accept the moral meaning of marriage is profoundly foolish.

de ti said...

The “positive” aspects of marriage are a result of, and point to, commitment.

For men, the only real positive aspects of marriage are (1) regular and exclusive sex with his wife; and (2) reasonable assurance that the children born of the marriage are his, so that he’s not getting taken advantage of. That’s it. Those are the only tangible benefits men get from marriage. That requires a moral commitment from the wife to do only two things; and they are: (1) have sex with her husband regularly; and (2) don’t have sex with anyone else. At bottom, that’s all she has to do to carry out her end of the commitment. Everything else for the man is burden and obligation – providing, protecting, producing, and teaching and training children.

For women, the positive aspects of marriage are (1) validation and affirmation that comes with the status of being a married woman; and (2) provision and protection for herself and her children. That requires a moral commitment from the man to (1) once he marries her; to remain married to her; and (2) produce and protect, laying down his life to do so if necessary.

What has happened to marriage now is that women continue to get provision/protection from husbands whether the wives remain married or not. Status is optional, and a married woman can shed it if she wants to. But for men, there is no assurance he will receive ANYTHING at all from marriage; and even if he does, he knows it can be taken away from him at any time at the wife’s sole discretion.

cailcorishev said...

Dalrock, great point. What GG is really saying when she says you can't remove all the risks is, "Don't take away any of my options!"

Trust said...

@: cailcorishev

Bingo. She doesn't want to take risks herself, yet somehow seems surprised that men flinch at taking 100 times as much risk.

Males taking 99% of risk = shut up and man up and take it

Women asked to take slightly more than 1% of the risk = hey hey wait a damn minute here don't do that to me

Iowahine said...

GG: . . . you obviously know nothing about women. We never shut up. Ever.

Yes, we can, and yes, so can you. Like submission - it's an active choice and action. Teach women by role-modelling submission. Just do it already.

Vox said...

Baloney, Vox. You can't mandate and regulate love and you certainly can't remove all the risks.

The only reason I don't spam you is because you nicely highlight the core Game concept that men should never take advice from women.

No chit Sherlock, but you obviously know nothing about women. We never shut up. Ever.

Yes, we've noticed. And the word is "shit", old woman. Not "chit".

Trust said...

She illustrates solipsism well.

She readily and understands that she doesn't want to take lopsided risks.

One would think it would be easy to understand why men don't want to either, but she doesn't. Rather she sees male risk as a benefit to her and from that perspective can't imagine men being averse.

This is another.example of men and women having thinking that is completely alien to each other.

CarpeOro said...

"Honestly Vox, rather than attempting to mandate misery, why don't you advocate for the positive aspects of marriage?"

You fail to understand GG that until the 20th Century one of the positive aspects of marriage was the idea of a union that was based on fidelity and responsibilities. Much of this was enforced by societal mores - peer pressure as it were. With the present system designed to remove all responsibility (no-fault divorce is only one piece of it), the majority of people live in a child like state of irresponsibility. The State has become the only "adult" as it readily steps in to take the place of men.

You want to skip the imposition of laws? Fine, I agree. The only path back to making marriage function is to remove ALL of the props put in to make men supposedly irrelevant - food stamps, assistance, no-fault divorce. Result short term? Lots of misery. Not long after, shaming of ALL parties involved would occur. It is hard to harden the heart when seeing children suffering. Remove the government solution of digging into other people's pockets and you will start seeing people having to own there actions. There will be charity from individuals to a considerable extent... but not the idiocy there is now. Men who leave their families will be given even more venom regarding their actions. Women will be more hesitant to frivorce (I just attended a second wedding for a guy who found his wife sleeping with someone else when he got home early from a business trip. His bother's wife started sleeping with her boss and told him to leave. Both women have joint custody) as other women start understanding that the burden falls on either her shoulders or theirs.
So really, I am all for giving women and men all the options they once had - but none of the escape from responsibility.

Salt said...

Even Japan is having its problems.

Japan's under-40s appear to be losing interest in conventional relationships. Millions aren't even dating, and increasing numbers can't be bothered with sex. For their government, "celibacy syndrome" is part of a looming national catastrophe. Japan already has one of the world's lowest birth rates.

CarpeOro said...

"There's this weird dichotomy going on where marriage is so awesome and wonderful, gays think it should be a civil right, and yet heterosexual marriage is allegedly nothing but misery, divorce, and alimony payments."

Perhaps someone forgot to explain the "birds and the bees" bit. When Bob and Tom marry, or Lisa and Irene, there are no resulting children - the basis for the insane system presently. Also, since either case has two of the same sex, there is no man to be crushed so a woman can be elevated. Not that it has made a difference to the key part of marriage between two consenting adults who are gay - remaining that way - because they don't even meet the straights' retention rate. But then, that may be just something that people with long term plans think about. Satisfaction now! Ain't it grand?

b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 said...

OT: But I do believe that Jon Meis has significantly enhanced his SMV to the point that it will strain his relationship with his overweight finacee. She better drop some weight or she is going to have a problem defending "her turf"

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1820429.1402101762!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_970/seattle7n-5-web.jpg

b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 said...

You stated
The positive aspects of Marriage 1.0, for the man, were exclusive and regular access to her sexual and reproductive organs. That's it.

This is why I listed some other positive aspects of Marriage 1.0. Since you consider the only positive being you can't rape your wife.

For their government, "celibacy syndrome" is part of a looming national catastrophe. Japan already has one of the world's lowest birth rates.

If your options for sex are starfishing with a typical Japanese female or those Japanese masturbatory toys, its far more cost effective and enjoyable to go with the toys. I kind of feel sorry for Japanese females, they are in a war they are going to loose in another decade or two.

GG said...

"The only reason I don't spam you is because you nicely highlight the core Game concept that men should never take advice from women."

It's not advice, Vox Day. My life, my marriage, is quite lovely and whatever misery others inflict upon themselves is none of my concern. Is that solipsistic enough for you?

"Marriage makes no sense if it has no moral meaning, and marrying a woman who doesn't accept the moral meaning of marriage is profoundly foolish."

Did I dispute this anywhere, Dalrock? The real tragedy behind what VD is implying is that women are incapable of having morals and loving men, therefore we must be trapped into marriage and forced to provide some facsimile of love, in exchange for financial support. So that tragic equation suggests that what men desire most, women's love and respect, can never be achieved, because men don't believe they're worthy of our love simply based on their own merit.

That is what I dispute.

Bob said...

Hmm, don't you think that attaching kids immediately to the male will be a benefit for the women though? Especially when the bloke is already trying to manage working full time etc, it could hold him back a LOT. (Rather than shared custody).

At the moment women end up with "baggage" at least, and end up crawling dating sites to try and find a man who will take them, since their parents get tired of them foisting the children on them while they go out clubbing and having sex.

Removing that "burden" (again how some women actually see them) from women entirely just lets them shed everything onto the man, and end up being free to do whatever they want to do, while the man ends up trying to manage it all. It would make "wiping the slate clean" or "Starting afresh, new man, new life" even easier for women.

dalrock said...

@CG
"Marriage makes no sense if it has no moral meaning, and marrying a woman who doesn't accept the moral meaning of marriage is profoundly foolish."

Did I dispute this anywhere, Dalrock? The real tragedy behind what VD is implying is that women are incapable of having morals and loving men, therefore we must be trapped into marriage and forced to provide some facsimile of love, in exchange for financial support.


Of course you disputed it, just as you continued to dispute it while denying you disputed it. You fear commitment, as you see it as being "trapped". Your fear of commitment is your own baggage to sort, but my point was that without commitment marriage has no moral meaning. Only doing "one at at time" is the lowest moral bar one can set, and you don't need marriage to impose a strict rule of only doing one dude at a time. You could after all do one dude in the morning, another at lunch, and a third after dinner. This would afford the "one at a time" morality you are looking for, and you don't need to bother with three marriages and divorces during the day.

So that tragic equation suggests that what men desire most, women's love and respect, can never be achieved, because men don't believe they're worthy of our love simply based on their own merit.

But this is just another argument against marriage on your part. Not only do you reject the part which makes it moral, but you see marriage as tragically reducing the value of the relationship. If a man really wants to know if his woman would stick around, burdening her with outdated social expectations to stay (even the flimsiest) is really a bad idea. Wouldn't it have been far better if your husband had never married you, and you merely agreed to stay together only so long as you both felt it was to your advantage? That way he would really know if you really loved him, in a way he just can't know now.

Also, don't you want to know if your husband is staying with you and supporting you financially because he wants to be with you, not out of some sense of obligation? How can you know he doesn't secretly hate you since he would have to support you either way? Doesn't this bother you? Wouldn't it be better if you hadn't trapped him financially, so you could tell if he was just making the best of being stuck with the wife of his youth, or if he still truly loved you?

b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 said...

@ GG

You sound like those elite NYers in their $2 million dollar condos, and their $25k/per year private schools talking about how great diversity is. Nobody believes them because they don't bother to expose themselves in the slightest to it.

By function of the current law and culture, no woman is capable of demonstrating her commitment prior to her own death, because under the legal and cultural framework now she always retains the option of terminating that commitment without real consequences.

How you act towards your husband right now is quite frankly irrelevant, you have not, nor can you (the law does not allow) give up your right to divorce rape your spouse, which is why nobody takes you seriously, because so long as you live you will not have demonstrated loyalty.

@ Bob

She will be older, war torn for the pregnancy, and unless she plans to cut all ties and never tell her new man about the children she will never be able to get another man into a LTR.

cailcorishev said...

This is why I listed some other positive aspects of Marriage 1.0. Since you consider the only positive being you can't rape your wife.

Ah, so you were offering an irrelevant diversion. Noted. Was I arguing against Marriage 1.0? No, I wasn't, which was obvious. I was saying those things are no longer guaranteed by Marriage 2.0, so your listing them was simply trolling. You're flat-out lying in your second sentence here, since I already said the other things a wife brings to marriage are wonderful. I'm done with you.

Eric said...

The elites are quite willing to sacrifice millions of middle class and below kids to the divorce/broken home meat grinder to keep the new family model in place. But will they be willing to continue on as the tax revenues and GNP they rely on for their pet programs dry up?

What, exactly, to these "elite" gain from the situation as presently constituted? Was it all about getting women into the workforce so they could be taxed?

Michael said...

@Eric "Was it all about getting women into the workforce so they could be taxed? "

Money is always a secondary consideration. Power is the main thing.

More likely it was because women will reliably vote for totalitarianism in their never-ending search for the pseudo-husband/pseudo-daddy of their dreams.

GG said...

"Of course you disputed it, just as you continued to dispute it while denying you disputed it. You fear commitment, as you see it as being "trapped". Your fear of commitment is your own baggage to sort, but my point was that without commitment marriage has no moral meaning."

Stuff and nonsense, Dalrock. It astounds me that you and VD apparently, are confusing morality and commitment with the power of the state, just like feminists do. Fems want the state to control men, you two seem to want the state to control women. I want the state out of the marriage business entirely, but that's not going to happen either.

"Also, don't you want to know if your husband is staying with you and supporting you financially because he wants to be with you, not out of some sense of obligation? How can you know he doesn't secretly hate you since he would have to support you either way? Doesn't this bother you?"

That's kind of an interesting set of questions because it shows a very male perspective. I imagine a man would ask himself those very questions and always wonder if he were being loved out of a sense of obligation and worry that he was secretly hated. I don't see those same doubts in women at all. In fact, I'd go so far as to say, many women probably enjoy being supported out of a sense of obligation and care not the least if they are hated, hence all the child support and alimony.

It's a bit of a paradox and perhaps hard for you to understand, but if hubby was supporting me out of a sense of obligation, then his sense of obligation becomes proof that he loves me. If he hated me, he'd bail.

Brad Andrews said...

> "that's not going to happen either"

So we should live with what we have now? I think you are hiding part of your agenda.

JCclimber said...

Off topic, sort of....
My carpooler, whom I have fun with because she is so obliviously solipsistic and so firmly team woman, came up with another zinger last week.
At the voting booth last week, a mother was instructing her two rugrats on how to vote - about 1 or 2 feet from my hip.
Which one should I vote for? And one or the other kid would tell her.
Except when they came to a few that the family hadn't discussed.
Then she told them to just vote for the one that had "Democrat", that's the safest and right one to vote for.

I told me carpooler about that and said that's probably how "Leland Yee" who was recently arrested by the FBI for taking bribes from gun smugglers managed to get 280,000 votes from his prison cell.

She said that she always votes Democrat but if she can't tell which candidate to vote for, she always votes for the woman candidate. No matter who she is, unless she is bad person like a conservative.

Yep folks, this was exactly what my first wife told me how and why she was voting for Barbara Boxer and Dianne Feinstein.

ray said...

"I've seen boys without fathers attach themselves to me in a heartbeat."


Me too. And tell me in department stores that they dont have a daddy.


Matriarchy is criminal.

Some dude said...

The first and most important goal is to eliminate all child support penalties under all circumstances. This goes for out of wedlock birth, divorce, fraud, etc. if anyone feels bad about that situation they are welcome to start a charity to support such children and their mothers, but this is not the business of the court and certainly not the government.

End the external child support structure, and women will find inventive ways of ensuring not to bring bastards into the world. One particularly interesting way many women will turn to will be the option of keeping their legs closed until they get a man who contractually agrees to take care of her and any children she births.

Civilization can tolerate a minority of fatherless children being supported by charity, it absolutely cannot tolerate what is going on now. Young men are being torn to pieces by single motherhood. A boy must have a father, this clearly goes for girls to. I recognize that there are circumstances where that is the best option, so I oppose penalization and shaming (except when dealing with the brazen and arrogant), and prefer incentives.

Likewise, end alimony. It was originally started to counterbalance the laws that prevented women from working. Those laws no longer exist, and she can get a job like anyone else. So she should, and not live off the man she has thrown away. If she cannot take care of both the children and earn a living, I say she is welcome to hand the children over to the father and make a new life for herself. If she does not like that option then that gives her incentive to work harder to create a pleasant marriage for herself and her family.

The penalty for adultery should be simple and straightforward. Immediate option of dissolution of the marriage contract by the offended husband without any rights or division of any property to the wife. As in any contractual agreement, violation of contract means the contract is null.

Note I said "husband" and not wife. Civilization can tolerate and even thrive men with mistresses, it cannot tolerate women who stray.

If anything I would rather a man have an honest mistress, and yes even children by that mistress rather than put himself and his name at risk by going to whores and prostitutes or sleeping with the wives of other men. Give a randy man some extra people to take care of and he will burn off his extra energy in a positive and constructive manner.

Personally I have no issue with polygamy, but I recognize that the purpose of the monogamous structure is to benefit men, else we will find ourselves in a situation where 10% of the men are availing themselves of 90% of the women.

Which is exactly the current disaster we have foolishly allowed to come to pass.

I predict that every one of these things I've written down will come to pass, if God shows us His mercy, then a very righteous man will lead the world in repentance to realize the truth; if we are very unlucky then we men will learn the truth through horrifying levels of pain and suffering when we see the destruction wrought when order and civilization break down.


de ti said...

Vox: "No-fault divorce has to be eliminated now. Adultery should be criminalized, alimony should be eliminated..”.

GG: “Honestly Vox, rather than attempting to mandate misery *** There's this weird dichotomy going on where marriage is so awesome and wonderful, gays think it should be a civil right, and yet heterosexual marriage is allegedly nothing but misery, divorce, and alimony payments. One of the best kept secrets in our society is how amazing marriage can be, financially, emotionally, spiritually, sexually, health wise, for the children, for the community, as a united front against abuse from the State. The benefits are endless, not just for society, but for individuals in general.”


“You can't mandate and regulate love and you certainly can't remove all the risks.”

Just to be clear, here’s where GG is demonstrating the female fear of commitment. She’s describing the current marriage model, and where there must always be an “out”, always an escape hatch, always an exit from commitment “just in case”. This is a purely modern concept born of the parents named “hard cases make bad law” and “hedonic marriage”. On the one hand, marriage exists to make us happy; and on the other, if it doesn’t make us happy then we’re entitled to exit it. That's what is really being said here by "mandating misery" -- translated, she's saying that if a marriage doesn't make us happy then we're entitled to get out of it.

She is clearly disputing the idea that marriage can only exist in the context of commitment and indissolubility. Commitment requires a moral centering and a devotion to the idea that the union cannot be dissolved by anything people do. If those two things – commitment and indissolubility -- are absent, then whatever relationship exists is not “marriage”. It’s just a man and woman staying together for as long as they both want to stay together.

GG said...

"Just to be clear, here’s where GG is demonstrating the female fear of commitment. She’s describing the current marriage model, and where there must always be an “out”, always an escape hatch, always an exit from commitment “just in case”. This is a purely modern concept born of the parents named “hard cases make bad law” and “hedonic marriage”. On the one hand, marriage exists to make us happy; and on the other, if it doesn’t make us happy then we’re entitled to exit it. That's what is really being said here by "mandating misery" -- translated, she's saying that if a marriage doesn't make us happy then we're entitled to get out of it."

You make a good point, but no, that's not what I was saying. "Mandating misery" meant driving more and more people farther away from marriage. I dispute the idea that making it harder for people to get divorced is going to entice them to want to get married or to remain married. A much bigger problem today is that people have no idea WHY they should get married or WHY they should remain married in the first place.

2870b918-77c0-11e3-b9bd-000bcdcb8a73 said...

I dispute the idea that making it harder for people to get divorced is going to entice them to want to get married or to remain married.

GG, I think the point Vox and others are making is that a major reason that men don't want to marry is that they're afraid of being divorce-raped, and if we make it harder for women to do that, men will end their marriage strike. I don't think they're correct in their premise, but if they are, the proposed solution does make sense.

Marissa said...

. I dispute the idea that making it harder for people to get divorced is going to entice them to want to get married or to remain married.

History utterly refutes you on this.

CarpeOro said...

"A much bigger problem today is that people have no idea WHY they should get married or WHY they should remain married in the first place. "

Under the current system? There is almost no reason at all for a man marry. See my above, on many of the other entries your filter has managed to remove from your vision. The reasons for a man to remain married are impoverishment or at the least loss of years or even decades of effort. I married with absolutely NO expectation of my wife remaining in the relationship because of what time and again is demonstrably the strongest influence in women's live - societal regard. I took a crap shoot that the influence of the Bible would have some major weight in the struggle, but have been disabused of that quite thoroughly. Patriarchal society has been destroyed to the point that the Bible has only a slight influence on women. On the other hand, paying attention to what the New Testament actually says means it has influence on me and has forced me to try to find new relationship tools such as Game to maintain my marriage.

Dros siva said...


My Name is Erick Wilson..I never believed in Love Spells I met this special spell caster when i went to Africa to Execute some business..He is really powerful..My wife divorce me with no reason for almost 4 years and i tried all i could to have her back cos i really love her so much but all my effort did not work out.. we met at our early age at the college and we both have feelings for each other and we got married happily for 5 years with no kid and she woke up one morning and she told me she’s going on a divorce..i thought it was a joke and when she came back from work she tender to me a divorce letter and she packed all her loads from my house..i ran mad and i tried all i could to have her back but all did not work out..i was lonely for almost 4 years…So when i told the spell caster what happened he said he will help me and he asked for her full name and her picture..i gave him that..At first i was skeptical but i gave it a try cos h ave tried so many spell casters and there is no solution…so when he finished with the readings,he got back to me that she’s with a man and that man is the reason why she left me…The spell caster said he will help me with a spell that will surely bring her back.but i never believe all this…he told me i will see a positive result within 3 days..3 days later,she called me herself and came to me apologizing and she told me she will come back to me..I cant believe this,it was like a dream cos i never believe this will work out after trying many spell casters and there is no solution..The spell caster is so powerful and after that he helped me with a pregnancy spell and my wife got pregnant a month later..we are now happy been together again and with lovely kid..This spell caster has really changed my life and i will forever thankful to him..he has helped many friends too with similar problem too and they are happy and thankful to him..This man is indeed the most powerful spell caster have ever experienced in life..Am Posting this to the Forum in case there is anyone who has similar problem and still looking for a way out..you can reach him here: , drossuva@gmail.com...... CONTACT THIS POWERFUL SPELL CASTER TODAY VIA EMAIL:, drossuva@gmail.com


AAB said...

'There are increasing indications that the West cannot survive without Christianity.'

It did well enough for the thousands of years prior to the conversion of Europeans to Christianity. cf. All of the polytheistic civilisations from the Tigris to the Thames. As have the Chinese, Indian and various Asian cultures survived without Christianity.

Joshua Sinistar said...

There are increasing indications the the West cannot survive with Feminism. Fixed it for you. Christianity is too damned soft to punch a womyn. That's the problem right there. I'm not saying that you should beat your wife, but any uppity lesbian psycholunatic that tells your girlfriend that sleeping with you is rape needs to sleep with the fishes. Trying to find a compromise with Leftists is about as easy as negotiating with Iran or the Taliban. They hate you. This system has been carefully rigged to be a game show where your little woman can cash out for Door Number One or Eternal Slavery for the poor bastard that still believes the shit about Holy Matrimony.
The Muslims don't call us The Great Satan for Nothing. At this point, could anyone argue with that assertion? The USA and The Ruins of Western Civilization are now sponsoring infanticide, forced-conversion to homosexuality, and everyones favorite "Income Redistribution" A.K.A. Grand Theft Legal. If they ever manage to steal people's guns, I might join the Taliban to get in on their Free Bomb Program now accepting applications in Tehran.
Expecting women to submit to men is seen as the World's Greatest Injustice, but the reverse, where men submit to the crazy hormone-driven whims of women is almost as good as sliced bread - Wheat Bread of course. And who could doubt the loving caring nature of women, who are willing to kill your baby if she might be inconvenienced? You know, the best thing might be to convince her that you support her career and dreams of having it all, knowing damn well that'll never happen, and just play The Happy Pump and Dump Game until she hits 40...

veneremurcernui said...

All of the manifold crises constantly lamented have one root cause: widespread use of contraception and the fornication, adultery, and divorce they enable. Yes divorce, because voluntary childlessness (or strict control/ordering of when one will permit children) has completely decoupled marriage from its prime, procreational end, which has in turn nearly obliterated the secondary, unitive end of marriage. Due to contraception, marriage is not about raising kids and staying together no matter what, it is about fun and convenience. Women seduced by feminist agitprop are especially susceptible to divorce, because their faculties have been so darkened by the sin of contraception.

That is why traditional Catholics have a divorce rate of about 0.5%. We are actually taught this.

Just like abortion, we shall never be rid of divorce at terrifying levels until mass contraception use is terminated by hook or crook. Statistics from internal SSPX data.

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Daniella Pal said...


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prohpet anita said...

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Doris Carter said...

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Olivia Arthur said...

An amazing testimony on a spell caster who brought my husband back to me.. My name is Olivia Phimzile,i live in Florida,USA,and I'm happily married to a lovely and caring husband ,with two kids.A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my husband .so terrible that he took the case to court for a divorce.he said that he never wanted to stay with me again,and that he didn't love me anymore.So he packed out of the house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get him back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and he confirmed it that he has made his decision,and he never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my husband .So i explained every thing to him,so he told me that the only way i can get my husband back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for him too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow his advice. Then he gave me the email address of the spell caster whom he visited.{supremetemple@hotmail.com}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address he gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my husband back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my husband who didn't call me for the past seven {7}months,gave me a call to inform me that he was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how he came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and he apologized for his mistake,and for the pain he caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster. So, i will advice you out there to kindly visit the same email supremetemple@hotmail.com,if you are in any condition like this,or you have any problem related to "bringing your ex back. So thanks to the Dr PAPA for bringing back my husband ,and brought great joy to my family once again. {supremetemple@hotmail.com}, or call +27799527702 Thanks.

Georgina said...


PLEASE!!! I'm Cathy Crenshaw Doheny and want to tell everyone commenting here should beware of SCAM and avoid comments about spell caster that can use their magical power in helping you out with your problems. i don't want anyone to be fooled because i was a victim of this fraudsters who claimed to be spell caster. I was having a difficult time in my relationship as i couldn't give birth to a child. Although my husband loved me very much as it were, we kept on hoping and for 4years there weren't any sign of breakthrough. As days goes by, i will always weep because at that time i was really down. Even though my husband tried to always be by my side, only time will tell as he couldn't cope with pressure from friends and had to leave me for another lady. i was now left to face my problem alone even though my mom would always talk to me and console me on phone. Things became worse when i was sacked from the private organization i was working because been happily married was a criteria that was needed and that i was now lacking owing to my barrenness.kept on searching and hoping i will find a solution to my problem but there wasn't any coming.contacted lots of spell caster as i saw them on the internet but all were fraudsters as they demanded money from me frequently and nothing happened. i had to relocate from Texas city to Los Angeles where my mom was staying and because i became racially abused because of my color too. I spent 7months with my mom and together we kept on looking for solution, still to no avail. There came a faithful day when i met my high school mate who knew i was happily married and living in Texas city with my husband and had to ask why i flew back to Los Angeles. I explain my problem to her and she led me to DR. MATAMAH. Although i was doubtful but soon as i explained my problem to him, he laughed and gave me a maximum of 48hours for my husband to come back and for me to become pregnant. I did all i was asked to do which included me traveling back to Texas city. I traveled back to Texas city, on my arrival during the early hours of the morning, my phone rang and guess who? it was my husband who called asking for my forgiveness and said he was coming back home. He came few hours later and on his knees he pleaded for forgiveness. Although it was a tough decision for me to make because of all the pains i have been through. I love him and needed him back so i had no option but to forgive him. we sat together and while i was resting my head on his chest we had romantic conversation and talked about things that we have never spoken about and like husband and wife we were in the mood and had sex for a very long time that day. The next day which was on the 3rd day i felt something different in my body and quickly went for a check up and to my greatest surprise, i was pregnant. How possible could this be but it happened and am very thankful. we are now happily bind again and all thanks to DR. MATAMAH for his solution.
ARE YOU BEEN FACED WITH SIMILAR PROBLEM OR ANY KIND OF PROBLEM LIKE MINE......note:
PLEASE KNOW THAT DR. MATAMAH isn't on the internet so kindly contact him via EMAIL: GURUVOODOOSPELLCAST@YAHOO.COM

kennedy florencee said...

I am Mrs KENNEDY FLORENCE i want to share a testimony of my life to every one. i was married to my husband Barry Silvester, i love him so much we have been married for 5 years now with two kids. when he went for a vacation to France he meant a lady called Mabel who encharm him with his beauty, he told me that he is no longer interested in the marriage any more. i was so confuse and seeking for help, i don't know what to do until I met my friend Miss Rose and told her about my problem. she told me not to worry about it that she had a similar problem before and introduce me to a man called Dr Agbi. who cast a spell on her ex and bring him back to her after 3days. Miss Clara ask me to contact Dr Agbi. I contacted him to help me bring back my husband and he ask me not to worry about it that the gods of his fore-fathers will fight for me. He told me by three days he will re-unite me and my husband together. After three day my husband called and told me he is coming back to sought out things with me, I was surprise when I saw him and he started crying for forgiveness and that he never knew what came upon him that he will never leave me again or the kids.it was the spell that was casted on him that was working on him. Right now I am the happiest woman on earth for what this great spell caster did for me and my husband, you can contact Dr.Agbi on any problem in this world, he is very nice, here is his contact Dedierogunspellcaster@gmail.com He is the best spell caster.YOU CAN STILL CONTACT ME THOUGH THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FLAMEWORKVICTORY@GMAIL.COM

kennedy florencee said...

I am Mrs KENNEDY FLORENCE i want to share a testimony of my life to every one. i was married to my husband Barry Silvester, i love him so much we have been married for 5 years now with two kids. when he went for a vacation to France he meant a lady called Mabel who encharm him with his beauty, he told me that he is no longer interested in the marriage any more. i was so confuse and seeking for help, i don't know what to do until I met my friend Miss Rose and told her about my problem. she told me not to worry about it that she had a similar problem before and introduce me to a man called Dr Agbi. who cast a spell on her ex and bring him back to her after 3days. Miss Clara ask me to contact Dr Agbi. I contacted him to help me bring back my husband and he ask me not to worry about it that the gods of his fore-fathers will fight for me. He told me by three days he will re-unite me and my husband together. After three day my husband called and told me he is coming back to sought out things with me, I was surprise when I saw him and he started crying for forgiveness and that he never knew what came upon him that he will never leave me again or the kids.it was the spell that was casted on him that was working on him. Right now I am the happiest woman on earth for what this great spell caster did for me and my husband, you can contact Dr.Agbi on any problem in this world, he is very nice, here is his contact Dedierogunspellcaster@gmail.com He is the best spell caster.YOU CAN STILL CONTACT ME THOUGH THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FLAMEWORKVICTORY@GMAIL.COM

Eric smith said...

I am Mrs Eric helen i want to share a testimony of my life to every one. i was married to my husband Barry Silvester, i love him so much we have been married for 5 years now with two kids. when he went for a vacation to France he meant a lady called Mabel who encharm him with his beauty, he told me that he is no longer interested in the marriage any more. i was so confuse and seeking for help, i don't know what to do until I met my friend Miss Rose and told her about my problem. she told me not to worry about it that she had a similar problem before and introduce me to a man called Dr Agbi. who cast a spell on her ex and bring him back to her after 3days. Miss Clara ask me to contact Dr Agbi. I contacted him to help me bring back my husband and he ask me not to worry about it that the gods of his fore-fathers will fight for me. He told me by three days he will re-unite me and my husband together. After three day my husband called and told me he is coming back to sought out things with me, I was surprise when I saw him and he started crying for forgiveness and that he never knew what came upon him that he will never leave me again or the kids.it was the spell that was casted on him that was working on him. Right now I am the happiest woman on earth for what this great spell caster did for me and my husband, you can contact Dr.Agbi on any problem in this world, he is very nice, here is his contact Dedierogunspellcaster@gmail.com He is the best spell caster.YOU CAN STILL CONTACT ME THOUGH THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FLAMEWORKVICTORY@GMAIL.COM Or CALL AT +447045776763

Miss Natasha said...

Am Miss Natasha Hill from Australia. I was having serious relationship problems with my Husband and it had resulted in him moving out to his friend’s apartment. Everything got worse because he started going to bars and strip clubs frequently with his friend, getting drunk and passing out. He always threatens me on phone whenever I call him because of all the bad advises that his friend has given him. I really love him and we had been dating for 8 years which gave us a beautiful daughter and a mavalous son. I had also lost a lot of money on therapists until I was introduced to Dr. Osauyi by a friend whom he helped to marry her childhood boyfriend; this gave me total confidence and strength to get him back. I did all he asked and after 48 hours my Husband called me and rushed back home, things just changed between us emotionally. He has a job and stopped drinking and keeping irrelevant friends. It’s a miracle I never believed i twas possible because I had lost all hope until I found Dr.Osauyi . So that’s why I promised to share my testimony all over the universe. All thanks goes to Dr.Osauyi for the excessive work that he has done for me. Below is the email address in situation you are undergoing a heart break, and I assure you that Dr Osauyi is the solution to all kinds Problem that can really help you in you sutoation Osauyilovespell@gmail.com Or Osauyilovespell@outlook.com call +2347064294395 web site http://osauyilovespelll.webs.com/

Miss Natasha said...

Am Miss Natasha Hill from Australia. I was having serious relationship problems with my Husband and it had resulted in him moving out to his friend’s apartment. Everything got worse because he started going to bars and strip clubs frequently with his friend, getting drunk and passing out. He always threatens me on phone whenever I call him because of all the bad advises that his friend has given him. I really love him and we had been dating for 8 years which gave us a beautiful daughter and a mavalous son. I had also lost a lot of money on therapists until I was introduced to Dr. Osauyi by a friend whom he helped to marry her childhood boyfriend; this gave me total confidence and strength to get him back. I did all he asked and after 48 hours my Husband called me and rushed back home, things just changed between us emotionally. He has a job and stopped drinking and keeping irrelevant friends. It’s a miracle I never believed i twas possible because I had lost all hope until I found Dr.Osauyi . So that’s why I promised to share my testimony all over the universe. All thanks goes to Dr.Osauyi for the excessive work that he has done for me. Below is the email address in situation you are undergoing a heart break, and I assure you that Dr Osauyi is the solution to all kinds Problem that can really help you in you sutoation Osauyilovespell@gmail.com Or Osauyilovespell@outlook.com call +2347064294395 web site http://osauyilovespelll.webs.com/

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