Monday, June 23, 2014

Put out or get out

It's really rather remarkable how women openly expect the lower-rank BETA men willing to commit to them to accept LESS from them than the ALPHA men to whom they freely gave more for nothing:
This man is all I’ve ever wanted in a partner, we live together, we’ve talked about getting engaged, and I’ve never had a better friend in the world. But he can’t get past what I’ve told him; he loves to throw things in my face, such as how I won’t try something with him in the bedroom that he knows I did with someone else. How can I help him get past it? Expressing the frustration it causes me has had no effect on the way he acts or speaks about it.
He's not the one who has to get past it. She is. And if she won't, he ought to trash her and find someone who is willing to fully commit to her husband, not the ghosts of Alphas past.

And this is precisely why men put such a premium on low-N women. With high-N women, there is usually going to be some sort of regular humiliation of this sort. As Instapundit put it, this may be why men increasingly prefer to be "the previous boyfriend".

Keep this in mind. Commitment buys a man NOTHING sexually. If anything, it encourages the woman to become less sexually open, because she is no longer driven to exert herself by her competitive instincts. This is an area where Dread Game can play a useful, if counterintuitive, role in providing stability to a relationship.

It is, of course, unsurprising that the female advice columnist gives completely worthless advice to tell the guy to deal with it and dump him if he won't meekly accept his second-rate status. This is an excellent reminder of why men should never ask a woman for advice about other women. Because Female Imperative + solipsism.

69 comments:

Tommy Hass said...

"It is, of course, unsurprising that the female advice columnist gives completely worthless advice to tell the guy to deal with it and dump him if he won't meekly accept his second-rate status."

And nothing of value is lost.

cailcorishev said...

Funny how the columnist never even floats the idea of this silly girl just doing for this guy what she did for the others, or wonders why she won't. After all, that's the problem here. He's not saying "Your past disgusts me; get away from me." He's saying, "I'm pissed that you won't get nasty with me like you did with them." He just wants the benefit of her experience.

I mean, no guy (except some cuckold fetishists) wants his girl to have been stretched out by a bunch of other guys. But if he falls for a girl who was, he figures the silver lining is she's going to be fun in the sack. This guy's not even getting that. It's like he's buying a Ferrari, but it comes with a governor that won't let it go over 55mph. And when he complains the dealer tells him he's being unreasonable; if he really loves Ferraris, he should be content going 55mph in one.

Remo said...

Western men really are being overtly conditioned to accept the worst in their females. We are not to have needs or wants that conflict with Ms. Princess. We are to be fine with her vast sexual history yet not be interested in sex except on *her* terms. We are to take 100% of the financial burden during and after the marriage and into perpetuity even after the marriage ends, taking on whatever debt she brings without complaint or question.

Is there *ANY* reason, *ANY* positive to get married in today's climate? Can anyone seriously suggest that what is called "marriage" today has any relationship to what GOD created? I know you are supposed to get married if you want to have sex, children, etc. but what is the limit? How badly does the state and society have to stretch the limits of what is called marriage before it is no longer a holy institution? If the state required all couples to openly renounce GOD and fornicate in front of a statue of Baal before legally recognizing same and calling it "marriage" would the church in the US be just fine with that too so long as the honorarium is paid to the pastor? Geeez....

Bogey said...

such as how I won’t try something with him in the bedroom that he knows I did with someone else.
What, she wont give bow jobs, bring a second woman, let him tap her ass? Too little information. If he wants to be cuckolded then forget it.

cailcorishev said...

We all know she's talking about anal, right?

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

and I’ve never had a better friend in the world

Obviously, he's been friendzoned.

Friends don't let friends fuck them in the ass.

brian said...

cail: "And when he complains the dealer tells him he's being unreasonable; if he really loves Ferraris, he should be content going 55mph in one."

This is the most perfect analogy I have ever seen.

de ti said...

Cail:

Exactly right. Mr. BETA isn’t saying “no thanks”, he’s saying “I’d like to have what THEY got to have.”

I’m sure that what goes through the mind of these high N women is something like this:

“Yeah, I had a lot of indiscriminate sex with some hawt guys, cool guys, rich guys; and guys who otherwise tripped my trigger. None of them worked out. Sometimes the sex was great, sometimes not so great, and usually I got used and treated like shit.

“So now I’ve got this nice guy who’s willing to support me and take care of me, and be my good friend. So I’m surprised that this nice guy wants sex pretty much like the bad boys and jerks I used to date/have sex with. He wants to do the same things they did, the same way they did. Why does this nice guy want bad boy sex? Maybe he’s not so nice after all.”

What it really all comes down to, and what she won’t admit, is that she is not attracted to him; or that she is not as attracted to him as she was to the bad boys and jerks she used to have sex with. And that, friends, is why she “won’t try something with him in the bedroom that he knows I did with someone else.” Because she is just not attracted to him.

Agreed that some modified Dread is the ticket here. He goes to her and says “give me what I want, or we’re done. If you will not be my wife, I will not be your husband.”

jimmy-jimbo said...

Don't betas automatically become the previous boyfriends? I'm not merely making a semantic argument. They do get dumped a lot. The only thing I'm wondering is why she didn't dump him yet.

Trust said...

Imagine a man who refused to give his girlfriend foot or back massages, but talked in great detail about how often he massaged his ex. Or if he refused to go down on his gf, talked about how he did on his ex. Hell, I may wait a couple months and send that question to this dunderhead and see what will all know the contradiction will be.

If this girl has taken it up the rear shuts or swallowed and found it disgusting and never wants to again, fine. But no way she should have given the details. There isn't anything positive he could have done with it.

paulmurray said...

"Imagine a man who refused to give his girlfriend foot or back massages, but talked in great detail about how often he massaged his ex. Or if he refused to go down on his gf, talked about how he did on his ex."

Bad examples.How about if he talked about the extravagant gifts he bought for his ex-gf?

de ti said...

Trust:

“But no way she should have given the details. There isn't anything positive he could have done with it.”

I disagree. Mr. BETA is entitled to as much or as little detail as he wants. He writes the checks and subsidizes her life. He’s entitled to know exactly who and what he’s writing those checks for; and what it is he’s “purchasing” with his hard earned money.

Any man who gets on that treadmill without knowing who and what he’s treading for is a chump.

brian said...

Deti - Is the hamster REALLY that strong?

Remo said...

jimmy-jimbo said...
"Don't betas automatically become the previous boyfriends? I'm not merely making a semantic argument. They do get dumped a lot. The only thing I'm wondering is why she didn't dump him yet."

She hasn't dumped him yet because she can't get a better offer. If someone hotter happened by she'd dump him in a heartbeat and it would be all his fault in her mind. As it is, her looks are probably in a death spiral and she needs a lifetime sponsor and future child support/alimony check. She can't get an alpha to sign on for that so she's discovered "true love" with a guy she doesn't want to f**k but does want to buy her a house. Just don't expect sex - that's all in her past.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

Reminds of Rollo's post earlier this year about a man who found an old sex tape of his wife in an orgy and doing things he'd practically begged her to do throughout their 7 year marriage.

Women will do anything with you if you are sufficiently attractive to her. If you are not, then she will put up boundaries. Applying Game in your marriage is your only real option and even then you might not be successful. Marriage Game is slightly different from pick-up Game after all.

Bobby Dupea said...

The notable aspect of this exchange, and the Hax advice, is less the AFBB element, which I admit is pretty obvious. And it's not the obvious implication that Current Boyfriend is of lower sexual value than the guys she compares him to, to his face.

It's that neither the woman nor Hax bother to speculate on what Current Boyfriend wants or needs. He's utterly objectified, and the relationship crisis is solely the result of his saying, 'Hey, wait a second. There's a lot of meaning in your sexual diffidence toward me -- and the odd fact that you needed to locate me in the runners-up category on your sexual totem pole." The LW says she's worried for the relationship, yet it never occurs to her that Current Boyfriend might have legitimate or at least strongly felt ideas; she really just wants someone like Hax to tell her "Now now, he's just slut shaming, so don't you waste your time on self-reflection or any other consideration of how your Current Boyfriend feels like a consolation prize." And that's what Hax does.

We men, to women like this, are mere supporting actors in the dramatic arc that is their noble self-exploration.

Sure, short-term he might scare the LW into some submissive or even respectful behavior. But he should pack and leave; he should not bother attempting to dread-game or any other -game this woman. She has absolutely no idea that he is an adult with equivalent agency, complexity, or standing. One of the emerging ironies of post-apogee feminism now is that the women are asserting a kind of childlike priority; this LW is asserting that the self-explorations of adolescence are in some way central to their relationship, primary to their relationship; she's flipped out because he's treating her like an adult and expecting adult-like behavior from her. There's no way to have a achieve a reasonable marital relationship with someone like that, unless being a lifelong, drafthorse provisioning provider, whwho is periodically or continuously hammered by her for life's unfairness, is appealing.

Mavwreck said...

A question for the readers (and VD, of course):

Would you see a difference between "I used to do that, but don't want to do it now (for whatever reason)" and "I tried that once but didn't like it and didn't do it again"?

Bobby Dupea said...

Mav, I don't think it's a big deal to decide to, or not to, pursue a sexual practice. It was, here, because she was both subordinating her current boyfriend to her past versions, and she was really just stating: "Anything I want or don't want is going to be central to our relationship; I am a delicate flower and you are my support system." The latter observation is what disqualifies her as any sort of life partner, not whether or not she wants to go dancing where it stinks.

We know, of course, that it is thinly-inspired women such as these who quickly put their men on sexual diets and enforce a monogamous virtual celibacy. But even that, in my view, is not as bad as trying to live with someone who is as self-absorbed as this chick. She's so self-absorbed that she doesn't even realize that she's destroying what she says she wants.

cailcorishev said...

She sounds like she's selected him as the non-sexual beta-bucks companion and provider she'd like to spend the rest of her life with, now that she's gotten her wild years out of the way. The only unusual thing about that is that she's only 23. She's hit that point at least a decade earlier than usual, which makes me wonder just how much of a cheap slut she's been to tire of it already (or if her looks are crashing that much already).

I think what goes through her mind is a bit more like this: "I let those guys do that because they insisted and they made me and I was drunk sometimes and I wasn't strong enough to say no and low self-esteem blah blah blah. I certainly didn't want to do anything that degrading. [She conveniently forgets the times she begged guys to do it.] I'm a good girl now, and I want this relationship to last, and I certainly don't want to have trouble sitting down some mornings for the next 50 years. I'm nipping this in the bud right now."

But as deti says, the reason she doesn't want to do it with him is that she's not really attracted to him. She doesn't find him repulsive, so she's willing to give him access to ordinary sex on her terms -- on what she surely intends to be a declining schedule, soon dropping to monthly or less after the marriage -- in exchange for the non-sexual benefits of the relationship. But since she's not really attracted to him, the idea of being dominated by him IS repulsive, so anything that would make him dominant is off-limits.

Bobby Dupea said...

She's slotting him into the Sandberg Utility Man slot, the "nice guy who will take out the trash and other fine things". Unlike what we call AFBB, Sandberg's model also starts with tattooed bad boys, before concluding with a pomo, post-feminist, supportive Nice Guy; bux are optional. Consequently she's making the call earlier than a typical wall-busting AFBB practitioner.

Totally agree that she's not attracted to him. I would also say that she is so self-serving in her thinking, that the seven-year itch (were they to get married) would be a big problem with this woman.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

Women who behave this way should be called whores. It is as simple as that.

Dexter said...

I can't stand the awful, appalling, annoying Hax. Not even gonna click on the link.

Unknown said...

Looks don't have to have declined, but the weight, it surely must have gone way up on this one. Would love to see what her upper arms currently look like: that's a dead-giveaway on how far she's "gone".

cailcorishev said...

Would you see a difference between "I used to do that, but don't want to do it now (for whatever reason)" and "I tried that once but didn't like it and didn't do it again"?

Yes, those are different. But it's clearly not the second one. This isn't, "No, I tried that once and I had to get stitches; I'm never doing that again." And if it's the first one, the reason she doesn't want to do it now is critical, and she doesn't even give one. If it were something like, "I used to do everything, but I joined a church that says anything but P-in-V sex is immoral, so I can't do the other stuff anymore," she'd say so. She doesn't give a reason because she doesn't have one beyond, "I don't want to do it," which means, "I don't want to do it with him."

Peregrine John said...

cail, your analogy is spot-on. I'll be keeping it around for later (and probably unfortunately frequent) use. It instantly brought to mind (as it did Mark's) the article from RM about the man finding positive proof that she would do what he wanted, just not with him.

Your analysis along with deti's is also pretty damning, and rings true.

liberranter said...

If the state required all couples to openly renounce GOD and fornicate in front of a statue of Baal before legally recognizing same and calling it "marriage" would the church in the US be just fine with that too so long as the honorarium is paid to the pastor? 

In a word, yes.

Matamoros said...

de ti said... He goes to her and says “give me what I want, or we’re done. If you will not be my wife, I will not be your husband.”

He should have set the rules up front on what he required and wanted from her in exchange for his support and commitment.

coachrelacional said...

That woman's notch count is so high that she is completely an Alpha Widow at 23. The poor guy is not only in the friendzone, but in the role of sexless provider and sentimental validation machine.

Dread game is an option, but the sane thing for him would be to man up an dump her. She is not sexually attracted to him at the least.

Mr. B said...

Very good reminder. I would also add that in an LTR or marriage this applies as well...even if YOU are one of the "ghosts of Alphas past".

Bluntobj Winz said...

"Reminds of Rollo's post earlier this year about a man who found an old sex tape of his wife in an orgy and doing things he'd practically begged her to do throughout their 7 year marriage."

Speaking of that, how is that guy doing? That's some pretty hard shit to deal with. Last I had heard reported he was working with a relative that was a divorce lawyer, but was on the fence about staying.

Jack Amok said...

From the bio of the female advice columnist:

Carolyn Hax started her advice column in 1997, after five years as a copy editor and news editor in Style and none as a therapist. The column includes cartoons by "relationship cartoonist" Nick Galifianakis -- Carolyn's ex-husband -- and appears in over 200 newspapers/

I'll assume her "5 years as a copy editor" were right out of school, though whether BA or MA I don't know. That puts her late 20's in 1997, so she's mid-40's now. Mid-wall divorcee as an advice columnist? Oh, great....

Cataline Sergius said...

The problem is clearly and obviously her own sexual attraction.

This is the most Beta Bucks scenario there is. She never wanted him sexually and that is the truth of it.

Is there any hope at all for the poor man?

Probably not.

She only wanted him because she was changing tracks. It was a purely intellectual decision (undoubtedly the first one her in her life and she is making the most of it.

It leaves her the problem, of a husband she doesn't want to to fuck. It leaves him the problem of a wife who just wants him to do his nasty little business as fast as possible and then get off her and go to sleep.

But there if the slightest of chances that he was born to be a slightly higher status male than he has accepted as his lot in life's lottery, (quite common these days), there is a chance.

First, when there is an opportunity to have sex, with a lot of spare time involved afterwards afterwards. Press her hard for sex. She will refuse of course. She is used to that Its a reflex at this point.

This next part is critical. Play on her feminine insecurity with regards to her sexual attractiveness .

Yes, they all have it. Helen of Troy had it. Rightfully so. They all have a very limited window of maximum fertility and men have all been quite literally bred to detect it. Women are born with a stop watch running in their heads. At the age of 25 the game is over and they've lost.

Engage her sexual insecurity at this point. I admit it's a highwire act. Be too much of a jerk and you are sleeping on the couch for a month, yet again. Too little and the matter is once again worse.

Politely (more or less) turn your back to her, (literally if at all possible) and be coldly polite at this point.


Her imagination has to do the work here. Never be overt with your threat of infidelity. She must plant that seed in her own mind.

Be formal with her. Be correct as you would with someone you only have to get along with, because of a condition imposed that is not of your making. Be distantly agreeable.

Above all else keep her worried about her relationship with you.

If you have done this right she will for once be coming up with ideas about how to fill the day. Mostly things she doesn't really like all that much. Its stuff you like to do for a change.

Refuse these suggestions or at best accept them with complete indifference. It's just something to do, not something you will enjoy.

Wait for her to disengage and walk off a little disconcerted. A little worried.

Now move in again. Make it clear you are not in a mood for a, no. Not to state the obvious here but don't be rapey about it just:

BE. HER. ALPHA.

And she will thank you for it.

Vox said...

Would you see a difference between "I used to do that, but don't want to do it now (for whatever reason)" and "I tried that once but didn't like it and didn't do it again"?

A difference in degree, not in kind. Just because you don't like X with one man doesn't mean you will not like it with another. And if he's interested, she owes it to him to give it a shot, since she was clearly willing to do it for the previous guy.

Retrenched said...

Saying 'he's all I want in a partner' sounds like so much hamster food, like she's working really hard to convince herself that he's the one she wants, when her vagina is telling her something else entirely.

Both of them really need to move on -- he needs to find a woman who will give him her best, and she needs to find a man that she judges to be worthy of her best. Not sure if she can find a sufficiently 'alpha' guy who wants to commit to her at this point, but that's her problem.

cailcorishev said...

Is there any hope at all for the poor man?

The best news is that they aren't married yet, so he can cut her loose and find a woman who actually wants to have sex with him.

We don't know how alpha/beta he is; I'd guess he's not a total gamma or she wouldn't want to tie herself down to him at all. He might be just fine with a woman who doesn't think she's doing him a favor every time she gets him off. Or he might need to raise his game. But the odds of him being happy long-term with this woman are almost nil, and what's the point of trying when they don't have a marriage or kids to stay together for? Go back to the girl tree and try again.

Peregrine John said...

To be fair, we had plenty of warning that her advice would be terrible. It says "Hax" right up there at the top.

Like being surprised a guy called "Made Off" did so with your money. Just too tempting for celestial humor to pass up.

2870b918-77c0-11e3-b9bd-000bcdcb8a73 said...

He shouldn't be "throwing things in [her] face". If he's that bothered, he should either give her the ultimatum like de ti said, or just bail. If not, he should shut up and accept the relationship for what it is. (We don't know what his SMV is; she might be the best he can get.) Whining accomplishes nothing.

Eric said...

I always wonder when a woman says "I'm marrying my best friend". Maybe it's just semantics, but what I hear is "This guy doesn't really excite me, but at least we don't fight much."

Eric said...

We don't know what his SMV is; she might be the best he can get.

But he's not getting all of her. She's not willing to commit to him 100%.

Cadders said...

I know the post and comments are focusing from the man's perspective. But what about from the woman's. She's twenty three. And a solid alpha widow. At 23.

What hope has she to ever find anyone she could feel genuine love (tingles) for and build a lifetime with?
Very little I would suggest.

She has decades ahead of her where her very best romantic option is likely to be mediocrity. Nothing she can do will change that. She has lost control of her future happiness.

At least the guy, if he wises up, has the potential for decades of fulfilling sex, relationships(s) and maybe family. It will take a lot of effort, self realisation and yes, some luck. But at least he has the option - his future happiness is in his hands.

This is the reality of female 'empowerment' in the post feminist world. Like with most everything it promises, in reality it delivers the exact opposite.

Some dude said...

@Retrenched

Saying 'he's all I want in a partner' sounds like so much hamster food, like she's working really hard to convince herself that he's the one she wants, when her vagina is telling her something else entirely.

Both of them really need to move on -- he needs to find a woman who will give him her best, and she needs to find a man that she judges to be worthy of her best. Not sure if she can find a sufficiently 'alpha' guy who wants to commit to her at this point, but that's her problem.


Bingo. I think that's the perfect comment of this thread. you nailed it.

cailcorishev said...

He shouldn't be "throwing things in [her] face". If he's that bothered, he should either give her the ultimatum like de ti said, or just bail.

That's true, of course. He's accomplishing nothing by staying with her and trying to "get even" for the hurt she's caused him. We're not absolving him of that stupidity by pointing out that she's a horrid, narcissistic skank.

Whiskey said...

Real honest advice would be: the woman is an Alpha Widow, she's self-evidently not hot and young and nice enough to keep an Alpha though they will sleep with her. Therefore, she has to decide: HAWT! sex and all that, with relationships that are very short term and predictably implode as the Alpha she's doing finds someone younger, hotter, tighter?

Or give up the sex tingles and settle for the best guy she can get? She's already got seller's remorse, as she chose to nuke up her relationship by telling her boyfriend she'd done all sorts of nasty things with Alpha guys but will never with him -- out of the blue. She's not totally stupid, she knew that meant blowing up her relationship ... no man will stand for that, being told he's sexless in comparison to her past boyfriends.

Real, honest, helpful advice to the woman would be chose, and be damned. She can't have love and sex together. She's not hot enough. Few women are. There are not that many Alpha males. What few there are end up marrying only the hottest of hot women. Hotter than her. And related, non-Alpha good men are not like a bus. Another one won't be along in 15 minutes. Even higher betas will get either snatched up, or marinate in bitterness and become sexless isolates, or develop game and move into lesser Alpha territory, and be either unavailable or deteriorate into undesirability.

An honest response of useful advice would be for the girl to end her already dead relationship, and settle for transient (and ever decreasing) sex with Alphas if that is what she wants, or love but no sex with a higher Beat (likely a lesser one that her current model). Either way choose with her eyes open.

Instead, she's likely to follow the former path of bad boy addiction, her choice as a free woman, thinking all the time that a beta will be there. Likely, not. Only Omegas of the George Soldini, Eliot Rodgers class will be available for her in twenty years. Or terminal rehab faded Alphas a shell of their former self looking for a sugar mama.

Derrick Bonsell said...

I read the same thing on Reddit.

2870b918-77c0-11e3-b9bd-000bcdcb8a73 said...

she chose to nuke up her relationship by telling her boyfriend she'd done all sorts of nasty things with Alpha guys but will never with him -- out of the blue. She's not totally stupid, she knew that meant blowing up her relationship

I'm not so sure she did know that. Reading her letter, it appears that she was trying a new approach of "total honesty", and hadn't yet learned that there's a middle ground between lying and blurting out every sordid detail without being asked. Remember, she's only 23.

Trust said...

All cruel people describe themselves as honest.

Ever Light said...

"And if she won't, he ought to trash her and find someone who is willing to fully commit to her husband, not the ghosts of Alphas past."

Ha, ha! Quite fitting you used that line "Ghost of Alpha's Past" from my blog @ http://ghostofalphaspast.blogspot.com/

Vox, this post is really relevant to many young couples out there considering marriage and the Alpha/Beta man dilemma on the part of the woman just goes to show the future pain and drama of a miserable marriage.

Retrenched said...

Well let's give the girl some credit for her honesty at least. She could have done like the wife of that guy on reddit who was a total sexual prude with him... and years later he found out that she'd done the most extreme type of gangbang porn imaginable with alpha men she barely knew.

cailcorishev said...

Yeah, I'm wondering when she actually told him. She talks about wanting to be honest right from the start, but it appears they'd been together long enough for him to be hooked on her when he found out. Of course, it's not like you're going to relate your orgy experience over appetizers on the first date, no matter how honest you are. But I get the feeling they were having sex before he found out that he wasn't going to get the full menu she'd offered before.

Jack Amok said...

Remember, she's only 23.

And 23 year olds are children. Hell, her boyfriend is damn near guilty of statutory rape, trying to have sex with a 23 year old child....

No, she shit-tested him with her "total honesty" routine (quite possibly without realizing what she was doing), and he partially passed. He passed enough that she's not completely walking, but he didn't pass enough that she's willing to do with him what she did with Badboy Rockbanddrummer. Only now he knows what she did, and she's created a problem for herself.

Bogey said...

Reminds of Rollo's post earlier this year about a man who found an old sex tape of his wife in an orgy and doing things he'd practically begged her to do throughout their 7 year marriage.
"I don't do that kind of thing anymore." I can hear it now. "I was young and stupid." If she needs to add a qualifier like that before or after she devulges her past sex life, run!

Retrenched said...

@ cail

Yeah, good point.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Why are some commentators on this blog so fucking wordy?

:::yawn::

lol

Doorstop said...

"A gentleman doesn't kiss and tell" but bitches tell everyone. Including advice columnists. Makes you wonder how American girls ever coped before the advent of the automobile, the telephone, and social media to be able to establish their own personal cheering sections.

CarpeOro said...

"Doorstop said...

"A gentleman doesn't kiss and tell" but bitches tell everyone. Including advice columnists. Makes you wonder how American girls ever coped before the advent of the automobile, the telephone, and social media to be able to establish their own personal cheering sections."

That would be back when the Patriarchy was recognized as the only way to keep a civilization going. Public shame meant something, so women and men were at least a bit more circumspect. Oh, and having a virgin in your marriage bed wasn't as rare as a white buffalo.

b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 said...

Makes you wonder how American girls ever coped before the advent of the automobile, the telephone, and social media to be able to establish their own personal cheering sections.

Before antibiotics and the pill there were real consequences to having sex. Women being somewhat risk adverse would then not have as much to gossip about in that area, and spent most of their time trying to one up each other in the social arena, which was a lot harder to do. I am quite frankly amazed how good of a cook my grandma was given she didn't have google and an army of recipe of reviewers at her finger tips, and am quite frankly amazed that there are women today that can't even pass for competent given the same.

Some dude said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
En-sigma said...

First, is it not something she will not "try" it is something she refuses to do with him. Huge difference. (aye, lass, this is where you wave your hand and say, "you don't need to see his identification...")

Second, this letter reads like it was written by a lawyer laying no blame with the exception of the guy who is to blame. Moved in together means his place. And totally honest about sexual past means it was meant to turn one or both of them on. Honestly, did she go through a litany? "with guys 5, 9, 14-20, and 33 I "tried" anal....and with guys 19, 32, and I think 40-50, I brought my girlfriend Stacey...no, the dark-haired one you met when you dropped me off for my girls night." I swear either this is a troll, or this guy's own hamster is doing the flip off of the wheel that Roissy has in a gif.

Young men need to make sure they are #1 on the list BEFORE they get married. And if she makes it clear you are not, then DO NOT MARRY HER. There is no fixing the LTR/marriage after this kind of stance is taken. Women can't fake respect.

Mark Shadows said...

How about those girls you meet that want to go real slow and make you wait and jump through hoops because they just finished a phase of complete whoredom and want it to be different with you. LOL Its like when you miss the big sales event and have to pay full price for an item. Its never a fully satisfying purchase.

vashine said...

Also, the lockdown of past centuries placed on girls and their pussies by their mothers, fathers, and community at large availed the little wanna-be whores nothing more than the occasional love letter, handkerchief, or public flirtation to brag about to their sisters-in-waiting, rather than bragging (openly and audaciously) about the dicks in their mouths they are now regularly receiving. Sure, that happened in the past as well, but with far, far less regularity and it was not bragged about lest she be socially labelled a whore and shunned by all decent folk.

Real parents back then gave their daughters the hard, realistic, mature, and socially responsible choice: either start using your heads and thinking long-term about your potential partners, with lots of help, guidance, and approval from us, your superiors, or your pussy will never get the dick it wants. Nor will you get the house, kids, and freedom you so desire. Choose wisely, namely among those we pre-approve of, or don't choose at all.

Real parents today should do the same. It's actually the most compassionate, humane, sane, and loving thing you can do for your daughter, your future son-in-law, your unborn grandkids, and your society at large.

Once you unleash the cat....

vashine said...

Note: She's not only 23, but she 23 and thinks she's a Woman, because she's had sex and stuff.

Virtually hopeless.

Trust said...

If he's the dependable beta bux guy, I'm surprised she didn't pretend until marriage codified her bux in law.

My only explanation is he's what she says she wants, and she is trying to get him to end it for her to cover up the fact that what she actually wants is contrary to the image she is portraying.

liberranter said...

Remember, she's only 23.

Which is the new 13.

2870b918-77c0-11e3-b9bd-000bcdcb8a73 said...

@vashine:
or your pussy will never get the dick it wants

I think in those days they were taught that your pussy doesn't want the dick, but has a duty to accept your husband's.

Retrenched said...

@ Trust

That's certainly a possibility, that she misses the thrill of the carousel, and wants to go back to sleeping with men that she actually likes having sex with, instead of her current boyfriend. But she wants some cover because she doesn't want to break up with a 'great guy' who has everything she wants, at least on paper, just to go back to the guys who are going to just fuck her and forget her. She wants some kind of excuse to give to her social circle to justify her return to the carousel, as it were, so she thinks getting him to break up with her might be the best way to do that.

Trust said...

@retrenched

Very true. It's one thing for good guys to be invisible and women bang bastards while lamenting no good men are left, nut it's another to leave one for a bastard.

Women do this in marriage too. They try to fuck up things so bad the husband leaves, and when he refuses to abandon his commitment and kids they still find a way to make him the culprit in her leaving.... and in doing so she provides rock solid rationalization for "taking him to the cleaners."

Jack Amok said...

If he's the dependable beta bux guy, I'm surprised she didn't pretend until marriage codified her bux in law.

My only explanation is he's what she says she wants, and she is trying to get him to end it for her to cover up the fact that what she actually wants is contrary to the image she is portraying.


That's why I think she unconsciously shit-tested him. Her hamster just got out of it's cage and she couldn't help herself. She just blurted out the challenge to him by throwing her past escapades in his face to see what he would do. The hamster figured it would be a win-win. If he rose to the challenge and passed the test, she's discovered a hidden Alpha. If he fails the test, she get sot walk and hook up with a badboydrummer again, with an added dose of drama to go with it.

He fouled her up by partially passing it, now she's confused.

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