Thursday, January 9, 2014

Alpha Mail: finding a conservative wife in a liberal sea

MCB sends a request via Twitter:
Could you do a column with advice for males to find a good wife? What's out there seems 90% corrupted by liberalism.
Let's begin by pointing out that there are a few misconceptions inherent in the question. Good wives are made, not born. And women's political ideology is both dynamic and malleable. So, the question is not how one finds a good wife, but rather, how one collaborates in the joint process of making a good wife.

Now, it's true that this isn't something a man can do on his own. He needs the wholehearted cooperation of the woman concerned. That being said, I suspect that the major mistake that most men make with regards to looking for a potentially cooperative women is to look at their current state rather than the trend and the relative position.

For example, single women in an academic environement are always going to be more or less left-wing. This is because women are heavily affected by their environments and they tend to adapt their views to more closely match those of the people around them. So, a women who is taking Women Studies courses and votes Democrat but nevertheless remains within shouting reach of sanity is actually more likely to make for a good wife than the ostensibly Christian Republican woman who lives with her good conservative family and considers herself a political moderate.

So, the first thing to do is find a woman who is somewhat to the right of her surroundings, regardless of what those surroundings might be. That's the true indicator of her ideological inclinations.  The second thing to do is provide her with an anchor. Never back down from your views, never apologize for them, patiently explain them when asked, and whenever your views are attacked by someone else when she is around, destroy the attacker mercilessly in a rhetorical manner. Don't bring up your views otherwise or try to push them on her, simply be the magnetic rock that draws her closer to you.

For example, Spacebunny once had some checks that openly advocated a liberal position with which I completely disagree, then and now. I never said anything to her about them. However, when a woman working at Barnes & Noble made a disproportionate fuss over them at the checkout counter in order to establish her liberal bona fides - "nice checks!" - I rolled my eyes, thereby drawing the clerk's attention and provoking her wrath.

She demanded to know if I agreed with the message on the checks, and upon learning I did not, promptly declared I was a bad person and demanded to know why my reasons for disagreeing. I looked at her calmly, ignored her demands, and asked her to please ring up my books. She did so, visibly fuming all the while. Spacebunny was appalled by the whole situation, and couldn't believe the clerk had treated me so rudely for the mortal crime of failing to show public enthusiasm for the sentiment expressed on the checks.

It wasn't long before the checks were replaced by other ones featuring an innocuous picture devoid of any political sentiment. And these days, I suspect she would be faster to disavow the sentiment expressed on the checks than I would.

The third thing is to be aware of the company she keeps. If she's around a lot of left-liberals, you need to be aware that they're going to be an influence on her own thinking. Counteract that influence by destroying their attempts to push their ideology every time they do it in front of you. Eventually, she'll have to choose, and intersexual relations being what they are, if your relationship is going well, she'll choose you. If she doesn't, but continues to move in their direction, well, now you know she isn't marriage material and you'll probably save yourself a painful and costly divorce by nexting her.


Oak said...

Thanks for the post, this is something I've wondered about. The conventional wisdom at least in some circles is to find a wife that "meets the checklist" in terms of opinions and background, but several marriages I've observed that seem to work especially well didn't have this at all at the beginning. It was mostly about the marriage dynamic, and the "checklist" seems to have largely filled itself in along the way.

In fact that seems to be pretty much how it works. If you have a successful marriage dynamic, the checklist takes care of itself. If you don't, the marriage will have problems regardless of how compatible the couple supposedly is. This would seem to be one of the major ways that understanding the principles of game would help in the marriage itself.

(And yes, this seems very self-evident once you realize it, but it goes so diametrically against all the wrong-headed marriage advice out there (even.. especially? in churchian contexts) that it takes a little while to sink in for those of us to whom it doesn't come naturally.)

Bogey said...

I looked at her calmly, ignored her demands, and asked her to please ring up my books.

Pretty good time to turn the other cheek, your accuser disgraced herself.

JP said...

Check out her facebook profile. Does she post lots of retarded sh*t like pictures of abused puppies or "save the rainforest by liking this image"? If she does, she's probably either a political activist, or becoming one. You don't need that drama in your life. Does she talk to her family a lot? If she does, it shows she values the family unit.

Does she bounce around like she's the energizer bunny? She's probably addicted to dopamine, and hence always on the lookout for the next thrill, which may very well be creeping with an alpha behind your back. If she's calm and seems to be fully present in the moment, it means she has control of herself. Party chicks seem to function on autopilot most of the time, but marriage material women always seem to actually realize when you are speaking to them and it will seem like they actually have a filter between the brain and the mouth.

Do you like her mom? Chances are she'll turn into her mom sooner or later. Both in the looks department and in the attitude.

cailcorishev said...

Your point about her positions relative to her environment is a great one that I've never seen made before. Made me think of this scenario that's probably not uncommon: Guy finds a reasonably conservative church. He looks around, and an attractive girl catches his eye because she's showing more skin than the other girls, and when they date she's more "fun" than the other girls, while still being modest enough that she seems more conservative than most. But that means she'll probably always be more liberal/libertine than him, or than the people they surround themselves with, which is not what he was hoping for when he went shopping for a wife at a conservative church.

SarahsDaughter said...

This is excellent!

As a former liberal voter, psychology major, weak Christian with very malleable beliefs, it is embarrassing to look back at how I once thought. But you're absolutely right about a woman's tendency to be affected by environment and her willingness to leave that environment behind when she is enraptured by a man. My father's and women studies professor's political beliefs didn't stand a chance.

Trust said...

I've also found that women moving rightward tend to be much happier that those moving leftward. Their current position, however important, tells you less about their destination than the direction they are traveling.

b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 said...

As long as she isn't a rad fem, she can generally be salvaged politically through marriage. That is one of the reasons the left is working hard to destroy marriage. It effectively operates as giving the man two votes. In my case literally, because my wife just takes my voter checklist in with her.

I also noticed that with my mom who was fairly libertarian (thanks to my dad), but after he died she went apolitical for a decade and now is a Neocon because that is what her boyfriend.

Al Cibiades said...

Thanks Vox and Oak. I have had a great experience dating a very bright struggling atheist. We were friends before we dated and had already set the tone with being "the magnetic rock that draws." I have become increasingly trust-able in her eyes because I am a "full yes" to her with no agenda. Certainly I would want her to become a Christian for her own sake, but for a smart woman the adage "a person convinced against their will is of the same opinion still" was a useful benchmark for me.

Here's an example. She is liberal. We disagree on homosexuality. She's curious as I am not triggered or uncomfortable around anyone, much less homosexuals. I phrased my objection to the practice in a way I knew she could hear. I told her I am against anyone using or being used transactionally (objectifying) for sex, straight or homosexual. I reminded her that homosexuals have an atrocious track record as a youth and body obsessed group with an insane numbers of partners. How can that mindset lead to a loving fulfilling relationship? It can't. They are as rare in the gay community as is the abominable snow man.

Anyway the upshot is that she goes to Church now on her own when I'm not around. Here's a real gem given to me from this process: she confided to me that "I feel so honored by you" and "I never feel used when I'm with you" You can't buy that, friends. It must be earned.

vartank said...

It's really not that hard in a relationship to get a girl to swing over to your beliefs and tastes, in a relationship the stronger personality usually consumes the weaker, in my experience. Also I think a good bit of advice is not to be too impatient from the outset, people DO change. Just 3 years ago I was self identified as a hardcore liberal socialist and feminist, and then swallowed the red pill and everything changed. Back then I would write off any girl I met who was Christian, right off the bat. Now I realize it's super easy to bring a girl around to your beliefs because most girls don't really have strong convictions, just strong emotions, and emotions are easy to mold through superior reasoning over time if you have the clout of being her boyfriend/husband.

Vox said...

But that means she'll probably always be more liberal/libertine than him, or than the people they surround themselves with

Precisely. And this is why a woman suddenly becoming quarrelsome and contrary is a significant danger sign, because it means someone else has replaced you as her primary intellectual influence. It doesn't mean it's another man, in fact, it probably isn't, but it is still problematic.

ThirdMonkey said...

Can she, and does she enjoy, cooking? I know this is on the surface a shallow question, but it reveals a lot about a potential wife. A young woman who knows how to cook was either taught by a loving family member or took it upon herself to learn. At it's heart, cooking is about finding pleasure in serving others and making them happy, which is the antithesis of liberalism. If she can't cook, offer to show her how. If she doesn't want to learn, next her. If she thinks it's "cute" that she doesn't know how to cook, tell her to grow up, next her, and warn your friends.

Even though my wife was raised by a career-oriented single mom, she has become the exact opposite. Part of that has to do with her spending summers at her grandmother's ranch, where she learned to take care of a household, garden, and feed a crew of hungry cowboys every day. Look for clues in her family and upbringing that she will look back to fondly, and be supportive and encouraging. Either ignore or agree and amplify when she does something childish or feminist. Encourage mature, feminine behavior. Above all, conduct YOUR life in such a way as to communicate that spending your life with a childish, entitled, feminist twit will just not happen. Do that, and you'll attract a nice, feminine woman with which to spend the rest of your life.

Trust said...

@: " because it means someone else has replaced you as her primary intellectual influence."

I've found other women's marriages to be contageous for wives. Women will also race each other in whichever direction they go. If they are around friends and coworkers who bitch about their husbands, they'll race to be the worst. If they are around women who are seeking to be godly wives, they'll want to keep up with them too.

One of the best things my wife did was bow out of the bunko bitchfest and made friends at a church group. Instead of coming home complaining and demanding to know what I talked about during poker, she comes home grateful for her life and talking about which friends have husbands that we could double date with.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Excellent. Actually, this could probably be expanded into a book.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

Trying to find a woman who meets a checklist is just another form of oneitis.

cailcorishev said...

Can she, and does she enjoy, cooking?

And make sure it's everday, meal-on-the-table cooking. If she says she likes to cook, but that means she has a big collection of cooking magazines, and once a month she gets inspired by an article or cooking show and buys a bunch of expensive ingredients and destroys the kitchen making something fancy, that's not really what you're going for. The woman who wants to be Martha Stewart may have no interest at all in making you sandwiches.

Unknown said...

"The man a woman believes most is the man who sticks his dick into her" is more or less what the Marquis de Sade wrote about the belief system of women.

It's in either Justine or Juliette in case anybody cares to check it up.

Feather Blade said...

Because le Marquis de Sade is totally the exemplar for healthy stable relationships...

paul a'barge said... yourself a painful and costly divorce by nexting her

Key bit and supremely important. Because once you've married the neo-liberal, your leverage decreases exponentially.

If you've downed the red pill as a man married to a neo-liberal, it's a completely different game. At best.

His Lordship said...

For example, single women in an academic environement are always going to be more or less left-wing.


Shimshon said...

"For example, single women in an academic environment are always going to be more or less left-wing."

I experienced this myself way back in my Blue Pill days (college in the late 1980s). A new girl became part of my group of generally liberal friends. She recently enrolled in the graduate Communications program, a bastion of hard-core leftism. She came from a traditional Polish Catholic background, and even though she constantly dropped feminist references, and claimed to be one herself, it was obvious even to me that she was no feminist, and I constantly called her on this. In hindsight, her father was a strong (and good) influence on her, and that kept the worst of university life in check.

In a completely different situation, my then wife-to-be had an evangelical Christian roommate (in college) who slutted around and at one point even worried that she was pregnant (and would have to get an abortion).

Weouro said...

One trope you usually hear on this topic is "you can't change anyone." VD's advice here still fits with that standard and applies it better. You're looking for good raw material, not a polished product.

I think this best practice for husbands forming wives is also a best practice for fathers. Just based on my own observations, fathers who produce the best kids are usually of the magnetic rock variety, not as much the active, involved, verbal teachers of doctrine. My dad was and is a hopeless beta, but he still managed to turn out four kids who are all practicing Christians. He spoke to me about religion only once, briefly, when I was growing up. By contrast, a lot of active, excited dads in our church produced promiscuous girls and agnostics.

Antonio From Spain said...

JP said...
Check out her facebook profile.

Exactly, either she has one or she is marriage material.

cailcorishev said...

Antonio, I might not go quite that far, but I'd say one good test for a woman you're thinking of proposing to is to tell her you want her to delete all her social media accounts. Her reaction to that, much like her attitude about taking your last name, should be instructive.

Res Ipsa said...

I believe the best premarital indicator of how a women will behave after marriage is found not with the women herself. You need to spend time with her family. How does her mother treat her father? Is her mother an agreeable person who defers to her husband? Is her mother kind and caring? Does her mother show her husband affection? The list can go on as long as you like. What her mother does is going to be "normal". To some extent that is what the girl will think of as "the way things should be". It is going to be her default setting.

If you want to see what marriage is going to be like, you need to spend lots of time with the young women's family. Face it guys, they all look good, smell pretty and have boobs. If you didn't find her captivatingly attractive you never would have asked her out. If you have concerns about being married to her based on her family, your going to need to talk them out, up front before she gets the engagement ring. You need to have her agreement BEFORE you take the plunge and pledge you stuff to her.

Athol is correct when he says that marriage takes a balance of alpha and beta to make it work. Stay strong on the alpha to keep the sex good. Do the beta when it makes sense to work out issues, but only do so from a position of strength. Be sure to do your homework before you get hooked by your hormones into making "this girl" into "the girl".

cailcorishev said...

Res Ipsa, it's also important to understand that her mother is the default even if she doesn't like her mother and is trying to be different. I've known women whose mothers divorced their fathers, and they insisted they would never get divorced because they knew from personal experience the pain it causes children and they'd never put them through it. They were still angry at Mom for it years later. But when things got tough, they were at least as fast as other women to bail out. Maybe she doesn't want to be like Mom, but if being like Mom will get her out of an unpleasant situation, she already has the precedent -- and probably doesn't have to worry about Mom giving her a hard time about it.

Some women may be able to deny their maternal heritage, but a man certainly shouldn't assume one will without plenty of evidence, no matter what she says.

Res Ipsa said...


I agree 100%. My in-laws have been married over 50 years now. My wife and I are going on 18 years. My wife does things her mother does, both good and bad. Mrs Ipsa doesn't know why she does some of these things, she just does them. When we visit her folks I will she her mom doing the same thing exactly how my wife does it. This is true with how they treat the men in the family.

Eric said...

I don't care very much what a woman's political views are unless they're deeply held and opposed to mine (no "all sex is rape" crazies for me). In general I think VD is right about the shallowness of the average woman's politics. Of course that's not true with every woman, but that kind of thing should be easy to figure out during the courtship.

paul a'barge said...

@cailcorishev: ... tell her you want her to delete all her social media accounts....

Yes. This. +1. Or, just ask her to do something that would involve changing her behavior, looks, etc at your request.

If you end up watching the fur fly, then fly ... out the door and down the lane.

RS said...

You are dead on with this advice. I was raised in a liberal household but always held to more deep-down conservative values than my parents. It wasn't until I met my husband that I really understood that my core values adhered to a different political affiliation than I had been coached to vote for my whole adult life.

What's funny is that all of the kids in my household (4 of us) ended up more conservative than my parents. My brother calls my mom every election to let her know he cancelled out her vote.

Adam Lawson said...

"Trying to find a woman who meets a checklist is just another form of oneitis."

Trying to find *A* woman is sort of an intentional oneitis. Having a woman you like and are happy with isn't a bad thing as long as you know what you're doing. Same thing goes for guns and setting fires. You know the fire is dangerous. You know the gun is dangerous. So you don't get the fire on your clothes, and you don't point the gun at your own balls and pull the trigger.

Marriage, as currently configured in the West, is dangerous for many men but not impossible (yet). Also, wanting a woman who isn't a moonbat liberal isn't necessarily a "checklist." I wouldn't have married my wife if she had Rachel Maddow's outlook because I wouldn't have enjoyed her company. Is that oneitis? Not in the slightest; oneitis is the (beta) act of thinking she's the only one and then pointing the gun at your own balls and letting her pull the trigger when she sees fit.

If someone isn't compatible you next them. That's the opposite of Oneitis.

Also, re. calicorishev:
"I'd say one good test for a woman you're thinking of proposing to is to tell her you want her to delete all her social media accounts. "

My wife neither has nor wants such accounts, which in itself didn't weigh into my decision... but the broader outlook did. I didn't want every time we went anywhere to end with a frantic attempt to upload every picture to Facebook, or every moment interrupted by twitter... or... so on and so on.

Feather Blade said...

"His Lordship said...
For example, single women in an academic environement are always going to be more or less left-wing.


Not always. But you can bet that those of us who aren't left-wing are keeping it quiet.

In the interest of not starving on the streets, you understand.

Aussie Realist said...

This is also why men should discourage their respective wives from associating with divorced women as it puts ideas in their heads.
Most of my wife's friends are single, but their lives are not appealing to her.

Eric Wilson said...

I can't believe no one has asked. What was the saying (on a check for goodness' sake) that could have caused such a kerfuffle?

Vox said...

I can't believe no one has asked. What was the saying (on a check for goodness' sake) that could have caused such a kerfuffle?

The readers here are sufficiently familiar with me that they understand if it was my intention to share any such details, I would have done so. As it happens, the content of the checks are totally irrelevant to the point of the story.

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