Friday, November 29, 2013

Slenderexy is hotter and healthier too

Recently, Tuthmosis has come in for some heavy criticism for his praise of women with so-called eating disorders, so much, in fact, that the international media has now joined in the hysteria.
A blogger who caused outrage by advising men to date women with an eating disorder says he is bemused by the 'female histrionics' the controversial article has provoked. Tuthmosis has refused to apologize and says people offended by his '5 Reasons To Date A Girl With An Eating Disorder' post need to get some 'perspective'. The blog tells men to date anorexics and bulimics because they 'cost less money' and 'her obsession over her body will improve her overall looks'....

A number of petitions have since been set up calling for the blog to be taken down, and one has received more than 12,000 signatures. Since it went live on November 13, the writer has been accused of 'dangerously and absurdly' trivializing the disease, which affects about 20 million woman and 10 million men in the U.S.

The Return of Kings blog post states that eating disorders are a 'luxury reserved for only the most privileged members of the female race'.

'In other words, the presence of one of the classic eating disorders is a reliable predictor of various socio-economic, cultural, and personality traits in a young woman -- features that, in the end, are desirable to today’s American man,' the writer, who says he has dated 'several' girls with an eating disorder, explains in his post.
Tuthmosis is correct to respond to the female histrionics with bemused and condescending laughter. So-called "eating disorders" are not only almost completely harmless, but they are materially beneficial to millions of men and women who would otherwise be obese and diabetic. And they are both materially and aesthetically beneficial to the hundreds of millions of men and women who would otherwise have to look at them, pay taxes for their medical care, and bury them.

It is important to understand that anorexia barely kills anyone.  Virtually no one who has it is at any risk of dying from it, as per the US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health, which cited a study entitled "Death from anorexia nervosa: age span and sex differences".

The purpose of this study was to assess characteristics of individuals who died from anorexia nervosa by assessing the frequency with which anorexia nervosa is listed as a causal factor related to the death of individuals in the USA. Data from over 10 million death records (all National Center for Health Statistic registered deaths in the USA for 1986-90) were examined for mention of anorexia nervosa as a primary or contributing cause of death. Only 724 were found, which equals an average of 145 annual deaths, and a rate of 6.73 per 100,000 deaths. The age and sex distribution suggests two fatal forms of anorexia nervosa, an early-onset form comprising 89% women and a later form comprising 24% men. The findings suggest that the mortality risk from current anorexia nervosa may be lower than formerly supposed and that it is not confined to young adults and adolescents.

That's almost exactly the same number of people who annually die in school-transportation related crashes, which amounts to 142 annual deaths. Considering that far more people eat than go to school, it should be obvious that unless one considers school transportation to be a serious danger to society, one cannot rationally consider "eating disorders" to be one either.

A "disease" that affects 30 million people and kills one out of every 206,897 of the individuals who contract it is simply not a serious societal problem, especially not when considered in light of how diabetes contributed to 231,404 deaths in 2011. 28.5 million Americans suffer from diabetes, so the risk of death from diabetes is one in 111. That means the risk of dying from diabetes is 1,855 TIMES HIGHER than the risk of dying from an eating disorder.

Stuff that in your piehole, fatty. Better yet, stick your finger down your throat if you want to live... and that's not even considering amputations, blindness, and other non-fatal complications.

Tuthmosis should not be criticized, he should be praised as a great champion of women's health. It's no accident that none of the criticism directed towards him is even related to the points he raised. Anything that keeps fat men and women from stuffing their faces is an important and desirable step towards a healthier future for them. An "eating disorder" is a hell of a lot less risky than gastric-bypass surgery.

Slender women are not only healthier than fat women, they are considerably more attractive. I prefer women with a BMI between 16 and 18 myself. Your mileage may vary, but anything over 21 is getting a bit porcine for the average non-athlete and anything over 25 starts increasing the aforementioned risk of diabetes. There are many healty, attractive, active women with three, four, or even five children whose BMIs are well south of 20.

Everything can be taken to a dangerous extreme, even drinking water. But that doesn't mean that one should conclude that drinking water is a deadly danger best avoided. The pejorative terms "eating disorder" and "anorexia" should be reserved for that tiny percentage of men and women who are actually at serious risk of starving themselves to death. For the overwhelming majority, being slenderexy should be considered something that is desirable, fortunate, and beneficial for women.

Roosh, meanwhile, formally defends Tuthmosis despite mistakenly buying into the myth of the seriousness of "eating disorders":
The delivery of ideas like these may make some people uncomfortable, but they are based on our experiences and views of the world. We speak the truths that politically correct outlets are too afraid to share because of sensitive mainstream readers who lose their composure at anything they disagree with.

I want to make it clear that we at ROK are not promoting eating disorders. These are devastating illnesses on those whom they afflict, and we wish sufferers are able to receive the treatment they need. It is unfortunate that sufferers continue to be stigmatized by society, so it surprises me that Tuthmosis’ article has been angrily received when it attempts to reduce stigma by encouraging our male readership to give women with anorexia and bulimia an opportunity for real intimacy. This is far better than merely giving patronizing e-support by outlets like Huffington Post.

We are educating our masculine readers not to pass on eating disorder victims just because they have an illness, yet instead of receiving thanks, we’re receiving hate instead. If we all had cancer, and someone wrote an article titled “5 Reasons To Fornicate With A Man Who Has Cancer,” we would spread it far and wide to make fornicating with us a better proposition for women. 

39 comments:

tz said...

I'm not sure if any woman who is that obsessed with herself or her body (beyond health to vanity) is good. But where is the campaign against "Thin-Shaming"? There are women are undernourished vegans or vegetarians (I remember an older mother at a Christian conference saying she didn't much like meat but realized she needed to eat it).

verusconditio said...

Any women in my generation (X) will remember all of the attention given anorexia and bulimia when we were kids. It was glamorized and given how much attention some of the female stars were given who had this disorder one must wonder how much these movies and stories actually added to the problem. Women seek attention and if purging or cutting will give it to them . . . .

And as always, if feminist were actually concerned for women's' well being there would be no such thing as fat acceptance.

~ Stingray

cailcorishev said...

It's amazing how quickly today's liberals call for quashing any views they find distasteful. They don't even make a show of the old "I disagree with your speech but would fight for your right to say it" pretense before working around to, "Yes, but you can't yell fire in a crowded theater." Now it's just, "Burn the heretic!" right from the start.

aaronthejust said...

Real eating disorders are pretty bad, but they're also extremely rare. How many women do you know who are 60 lbs?

The average chick I know with a self-described "eating disorder" is overweight.

@tz All women are obsessed with their body. Hang around a woman who's gained a new stretch mark and you'll long for a corner of a roof.

@verusconditio Anorexia has been found to be largely due to genetic factors and is not due to environmental conditioning.

@cailcorishev Promoting the right of women to become obese (and pretend they're beautiful and still deserve access to a man's resources) seems to be one of the blessed sacraments of progressivism. There is utterly no reason for it other than to serve the feminine imperative.

fc6cedc2-d6a8-11e2-b860-000bcdcb471e said...

I think the best comment I saw in defense of Tuth was something along the lines of "Do these women realize that the alternative is that men shouldn't date women with eating disorders?"

Allie said...

Obviously the most destructive eating disorder of all is the one that leads to obesity! When my fat sister became a self-described anorexic we all rejoiced and hoped she would actually lose the weight. But what actually happened was...nothing. She is now larger than ever and upset with the family for never taking her "eating disorder" seriously.

Weouro said...

He's praising the good kid of eating disorder. The kind that actually kills people is much more common and involves double fisting french fries.

Rigel Kent said...

This reminds me of something George Carlin said, "Somehow I can't fell sorry for an anorexic. Rich cunt don't wanna eat, fuck her." And on Bulimia "This is the only country where we have some people digging through a dumpster looking for something to eat, other people eat a nice meal, and puke it up intentionally."

I always figured the problems with "eating disorders" were exaggerated, I just didn't realize by how much. I actually wrote something about this myself, but now I'm thinking I was far too kind about it.

SocialllyExtinct said...

Eating disorders such as anorexia or bulimia are simply flip-side mental pathologies that share much in common with overeating, gluttony and obesity. American obsession with food is the problem. It's a First World problem.

And frankly, any guy who longs for that "hot" anorexic physique has gotta be a latent homosexual. I can see no other reason how any guy can find a woman who looks like a 14-year-old boy in drag to be sexy. This is not to be construed as a defense of fat chicks. It's not.

cb6f3d30-2f6b-11e3-9035-000bcdca4d7a said...

The pejorative terms "eating disorder" and "anorexia" should be reserved for that tiny percentage of men and women who are actually at serious risk of starving themselves to death.

Agreed, but let's not forget that such people do exist. 30 years after her death, I still mourn the loss of Karen Carpenter.

Vox said...

Agreed, but let's not forget that such people do exist.

Of course they do. But the point is that for every Karen Carpenter, there are nearly 2,000 Mama Casses.

And frankly, any guy who longs for that "hot" anorexic physique has gotta be a latent homosexual. I can see no other reason how any guy can find a woman who looks like a 14-year-old boy in drag to be sexy.

Slender women don't look like 14-year old boys in drag. Just because you're a chubby chaser or a breast man, there is no reason to denigrate those who prefer long legs, tight asses, and razor-sharp cheekbones.

SocialllyExtinct said...

I don't think we are doing ourselves any favors by confounding "slender" and "anorexic" physiques. A slender woman is healthy in mind and looks like a human woman.

On the other hand, I'm speaking specifically of the strange fixation I see going on with male idealization of anorexic women who are decidedly NOT healthy. These women are just as mentally screwed up and disordered as fat chicks, just in a different direction. I'm speaking of this:

http://beachhutting.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/lohan-skinny.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2006/10/skinny_228x593.jpg

I agree with you that slender women are hot, but these 2 women are slender only in the most diseased manner of speaking.

mina smith said...

I spent the week on ROK, mostly to practice "debating" feminists (if you can call it that: they are not very smart nor very mature, most of them) and the commentary was hilarious. The responders male or female all sound like angry 3rd graders. There is something about feminism that attracts really dumb people - or, people are made dumb by following feminism. Whichever. End result same.

mina smith said...

"It's amazing how quickly today's liberals call for quashing any views they find distasteful." - they are emboldened by their numbers of late. There is no discussion or thinking, just shrieking, fist shaking and foot stamping.

PVW said...

What is striking is that a fair number of these women who were so troubled by this were slender/fit. So there is an issue, perhaps, of women who are naturally slender/fit, or who make the effort, feeling sensitive about this because they might be accused of having an eating disorder? Or if they regularly eat and then purge, rather than eating healthfully and exercising, they are sensitive to their bulimia? Truly baffling, that any woman would need to go to such measures. Just eat right and exercise on a serious basis; there is nothing more to be said. Time and time again, it has been proven just how beneficial exercise is to the human body in many different facets, including brain functioning. In addition, if people do have some of those debilitating diseases, such as diabetes (ie., genetics), regular exercise and diet can eliminate them or lessen the effects.

mina smith said...

"women who were so troubled by this" - All Liberals, all programmed to believe in "fat acceptance", "white / thin / beauty privilege" and other "equality" stupidity. Most of the women commenting were under 25 years old, I even corresponded with one who was about 12 (and already believing the program, hook line and sinker!) They really had very little idea what they were mad about, just that it went against their program. That was all they needed. Once you tried to nail them down and give some quantifiable objections, the response was either 1. "my feelings!!!" or 2.

mina smith said...

or 2. "crickets" (sorry I used reserved html characters there...)

Loreman72 said...

No, thank you! I've seen someone with anorexia (or maybe she was long-term bulimic): the jutting collarbones and pelvis, the mossy teeth, the skin stretched tight like a carcase in the sun, the sunken, weary eyes that seem to long for death. As my daughters say, 'EWW!"

Sometimes Vox says something pretty daft. This is one of them. @SocialllyExtinct +1

Jill said...

Personally, I aspire to look like this babe from 20,000 years ago: the Venus of Willendorf, even if it never means having the joy of sticking my finger down my throat and vomiting up perfectly good food that I spent perfectly good money on.

Weouro said...

She's only 11 centimeters tall.

LP 999/Eliza said...

Great post, thinsperation

Per others around me, I dropped my annoying use of the term proana.

Now its truth, honor and beauty insert year.

Stephen Barringer said...

Strikes me that the issue is not so much eating disorders in themselves as the people who falsely or deludedly claim the label in order to excuse bad habits or explain neurotic self-dissatisfaction.

In a larger sense this goes back to society's general problem of "pathologization creep"; the more of our problems that can be plausibly explained as clinical, medical or neurological defects, the less personal responsibility people have to take and the more hopeful we can be that these problems can be "cured".

swiftfoxmark2 said...

I just love how all these white knights and women came to defense of people they wouldn't give two shits about in any other circumstance.

Markku said...

proana

However, please understand that my only gripe with the word was that anorexia involves a mistaken self image. Practically always thinner is still better. But it is much better to be thin and understand that one is thin, than to be thin and think herself fat. The problem in it is not that the woman is thin, but that you have to constantly listen to her patent nonsense about her supposed excess weight.

Markku said...

("Practically" means that no, this is no longer better.)

SQT said...

I don't really care if someone is anorexic or bulimic because they're self inflicted problems. But it is a misinformed position to assume that they are less harmful than obesity: the negative health impacts are different and sometime severe. Bulimia is probably the worst because the purging brings acid up from the stomach that damages the esophagus and the teeth. The esophageal damage raises the risk of cancer significantly and the damage to the teeth is permanent and very costly to fix-- not to mention that missing teeth doesn't do much to enhance one's attractiveness regardless of how thin one is. Purging can also throw off the potassium balance within the body which can lead to catastrophic organ failure.

Additionally when a woman's weight drops too low the menstrual cycle often stops which lead to loss of bone density. It is not uncommon for female athletes, especially ballerinas, to suffer early onset osteoporosis.

In short, eating disorders that lead to either too much or too little consumption of food both have their health risks and neither should be lauded.

subject by design said...

Vox, when you say " There are many healty, attractive, active women with three, four, or even five children whose BMIs are well south of 20." what do you mean by "many"? Do you mean that you know many women who fit that description? Or do you mean that of all the women in the world who are having 3, 4 or 5 children that "many" of them have BMI's well south of 20? Is this an observation you have made, or is this based upon some data?

I know a lot of women with 3 or more children. I could only say that very FEW of them have a BMI of 20, let alone "well south" of that. But, of course, regardless of the vastness of my experience, it is just my experience.

At what point does fertility become an issue? I've read that it can be a problem below 20. Fertility is one sign of health in a woman, so reducing BMI to a level that renders a woman infertile would not be healthy.

Emma said...

About eating disorders being "harmless". Do you base that on the fact that not many die from it, or something else? I think quality of life and health is worth a look.
In general, the Tuthmosis article was funny for a troll article and should stay, but it seems kinda silly to actually agree with it. Dating people with mental problems is hard. If I was gonna recommend anyone, it wouldn't be a group of women with a a peculiar self-obsession (not putting it in insulting terms, just describing what they are focused on). It might be preferable by some men over dating fat women, but just because it's one level better, it doesn't deserve to be put on a pedestal and called "great". Maybe that's what happens when there is no one else to choose but fatties and rexies?

Crude said...

Emma hits on something I was going to bring up. Pure fatality only seems like one of a number of metrics worth paying attention to here.

As for 'dating people with mental problems is hard', I suppose on this blog the question will be 'Where are these sane women we can date? Where are they hiding?'

Emma said...

"As for 'dating people with mental problems is hard', I suppose on this blog the question will be 'Where are these sane women we can date? Where are they hiding?' "

Yeah, I know, lots of people have mental issues, it's not uncommon. I'm talking those with a diagnosis, btw. But I think major mental problems are much less common than being mentally ok. It's not real mental disorders that are hard to avoid, it's bad, undeveloped character.

Crude said...

I think that gets into a grey area. You say 'those with a diagnosis', but how many people who be diagnosed as having some form of mental illness if only they went and got checked? I'm a little skeptical about the accuracy of these things - obviously there are people who have serious illnesses and problems, but I'm not sure the howevermany million 'anorexics' have anything worse going on than the typical human.

LP 999/Eliza said...

Agreed, the solution was that I have stopped something that was not mature or appropriate. Occasionally or even tagging issues or stories as pro ana. For example, when offered something of non nutritional value, plus fat, trans fats, sugar, processed edible widget, it is not uncommon to hear me say, "nein proana". I forgot to add that those who marinated on the issue with me were gracious yet firm. I could continue my workouts or restricted calorie living, God willing, without being annoying in dropping "proana" anymore.

If only others could understand or experience the life high or endorphin kick of fasting for 24 to 36 hours while working out for a few hours. Of course, to care for the muscles, a person would eventually stop to recover, rest, eat etc.

And then an uncomfortable reality might be hunger games. Perhaps to fast is to prepare for a time when food is not available or unaffordable.

LP 999/Eliza said...

If one is to believe or accept modern psychiatry and its (absurd) labels, the mentally ill are among us.

cailcorishev said...

I agree with you that slender women are hot, but these 2 women are slender only in the most diseased manner of speaking.

First, I only looked at the first picture, but that's not "slender," that's emaciated. I'd also bet it's photoshopped, because she doesn't even look human.

Second, I doubt you'd find any more men who think that's hot than you'd find who liked Kirstie Alley at her biggest. Some men have freakish tastes. But no, most men don't want women who have builds like 14-year-old boys; that's a straw-man invented by women who don't want to lose weight. If you want to know what men want, turn on your TV this Sunday afternoon, find a football game, and wait for a shot of the cheerleaders. That's the body most men want: slender, fit, and curvy in the right places, with some variation for the amount of curve desired in the chest and rear regions, but not much variation in the waist area -- flat stomachs, not ribs poking out. It's not that complicated.

cailcorishev said...

But it is a misinformed position to assume that they are less harmful than obesity: the negative health impacts are different and sometime severe.

He's not saying they're less harmful for the individual; he's saying they're currently doing far less harm to society as a whole. Yes, if you or someone you love suffers from anorexia, then that could be very dangerous and needs to be dealt with, but obesity-related diseases are killing far more people and ruining far more lives overall.

If you're someone in government or media who has a bullhorn, could you do more good by encouraging people in general to lose weight or to gain it? That's the point here: people who have a bullhorn, especially those who are in the position to influence women, are all over anorexia. There's no "acceptance" movement there, just uniform condemnation and support for treatment. But on the other side of the scale, for the far more numerous women who are 20, 50, 100 pounds overweight, they push acceptance. Sure, we hear gripes about how Americans are unhealthy, gluttonous fatties, but only in society-wide terms. Point to a particular woman and suggest that she really should lose weight to improve her health and her personal life, and you'll be shouted down by the same people who want to hold anorexics down and force-feed them French fries.

In short, the point here is the hypocrisy, not whether one disease or condition is worse for an individual than another. Liberals push fat acceptance and redefine slenderness as anorexia for the same reason they do everything else: to destroy that which is objectively good. Beauty, including the healthy female form, is an objective good, so it must be devalued and torn down as much as possible. Since it's a lot easier to get people to eat junk food than to starve themselves, that means pushing fat acceptance.

LP 999/Eliza said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
SQT said...

@Cailcorishev

That's true enough. From a big-picture perspective anorexia/bulimia are far less harmful than obesity. I suppose part of the outrage over Truthmosis' article is that women are more likely to suffer from the skinny-type disorders than men and that puts it on the "female problem" spectrum and one must always defer to the women's side of things if one to be considered socially correct.

JCclimber said...

Regarding women with BMI south of 20, it is rather rare unfortunately in Amerika these days. However, in Asia and many other parts of the world, it is NOT accepted that a woman will remain looking like a beached whale after dropping some children out of her womb. Just common in fat-accepting Amerika.

And it isn't any more healthy for women to be FAT in Amerika after giving birth to children than it is to be fat for any other reason or time. Time to stop giving them a "pass" on being fat just because they had a number of children.

Your acceptance of their obesity if killing them. Yes, that's right, since we know shaming works on women, your acceptance of their ballooning "because she had several pregnancies" is contributing to her death. Yes, you.

JCclimber said...

Am I alone in observing that none of the girls or women I've known with anorexia or bulimia had a strong male in her life?

The fathers in my dozens of experiences have either been gammas, or absent. The boyfriends? Gammas or at best weak deltas.

In several cases I've known personally, as soon as a strong man appears in their life, the eating disorder fades away like the last notes in a symphony concert.

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