Tuesday, November 26, 2013

Alpha Mail: playing with fire

RC tries to lock down a Tinder hookup:
I've found your insights and commentaries on so many issues so illuminating that I'm writing you for your opinion on what to do in this situation. I've suffered from massive beta backslide and I feel like I did when I was in my early 20s (I'm 33 now).

I hope you get a chance to read this and give me your very valuable to me 2 cents on how to take care of this situation... or end it in a nuclear way:

Met X on Tuesday in October through Tinder. Met briefly for 1 drink... there was a lot of chemistry so we set up a date for Friday... then she went to a concert and I went to bang a chick I hook up with every once in a while.

Friday I pick X up, take her to two places, heavy kissing, then I suggest going back to her place. We get naked on her bed and she tells me to stop and kicks me out of her place at the last second.

Saturday we meet briefly at a cook off by my place. She's with a girlfriend of hers and her friend says that I'm a great guy, etc... Then X leaves to a housewarming party, I'm not invited. I go home.

Sunday morning we had brunch and then sex at my place and then hung out all day at festivals.

This went on fine for a few days until one time I saw that she kept getting calls and messages from other Tinder guys and other regular text messages. I told her I had zero tolerance for other people contacting her with romantic intentions and she said that we were never clear about being exclusive. She said let's continue seeing each other so I made it a point to spend every mutually free moment together... even going to the gym together. My plan was to make her dependent on my presence so that when I travel (and I travel a lot) she would miss me and not fool around or accept any advances.

Well, I'm traveling now have been away for a week. I get back in 6 days (NOV 30). At one point, she had given me her work computer sign-in password, which lo and behold turned out to be her gmail password.

Well, my morbid curiosity took hold and I went through her emails and search history. Nothing out of the ordinary, except last night I saw that she emailed herself from her phone a picture of a guy. I immediately emailed her telling her that I was in the beach and that there was a only a crappy internet cafe there and that I missed her and all that beta shit and that I had the computer for an hour and I'd come back to check to see if she'd written. After 45 mins she wrote me... then sent that guy his own picture... then she wrote me a little more.

This morning, I check her email and she had made a folder with his name and my emails are gone.

Obviously, I have to break up with her. What kills me is that she has 5 days to finish it with me first. We are supposed to go to a party the same day I land. Obviously that's not going to happen.

What's the best way to finish all of this?

This is a girl that works in my industry, which I'm also in. I don't exactly want her as an enemy and I can't write off any bitterness to a break up because not many people knew we were dating.

I was planning on not writing her until I hear back from her, obviously. But once I get back to CITY Y, I wanted to show up to her place and tell her that I felt that she didn't miss me as much as she claims to miss me and that quite frankly I didn't miss her as much as I thought I would. But I want to do something that stings... I'd like to tell her that I saw us being together for a long time or something, since I know she wants to sooner or later. As a matter of fact, I always came inside her, but she always went for the Plan B morning after pill, so I don't know if she was that interested in keeping me around through those means.

Can you give me some advice about this?
Yes. Stop being such a bloody Delta and start being honest with yourself. You were on Tinder to find sluts. You found one. You nailed her. Now you're all butt-hurt because she's still a slut and she's doing what sluts do, which is look for her next sexual fix.

This is a simple case of category error. Sluts are for sex. They are riding the carousel and they don't want to get off. They're sex toys, they're not real girls, from the relationship perspective.

It's apparent that Y has a higher SMV than RC does, which is why RC wants to turn Pinochiette into a real girl and she has no intention of letting him do so. This is a big mistake and a modified form of oneitis. It's also why so many men marry the wrong woman; they don't propose because they are in love or due to mutual compatibility, but because they think she is the hottest woman they will ever get.

If you feel the need to spy on a woman or make her dependent upon your presence so that she won't cheat on you, then she's not a woman you should consider for a relationship. The urge to spy is your subconscious telling you that she can't be trusted. If she doesn't behave in a way that permits you to continue the relationship without spying, you should either next her or maintain a non-exclusive status.

In this case, the best thing for RC to do is to simply stop communicating with her and move on. If she comes sniffing around wondering why he's not paying the expected attention to her, he should just tell her he heard she was involved with another guy now and he's not interested in her anymore. He should not, under any circumstances, tell her that he was logging into her email account. He should let her hamster spin with regards to how he knows.

And if RC wants a serious and committed relationship, he needs to rethink his current approach to women. If one wants quality food, one goes to a decent restaurant, not the bowling alley. So, if RC wants a wife, or even just a proper girlfriend, how does it make any sense for him to go looking for one on Tinder?

36 comments:

kh123 said...

Gmail tends to have account log-in info at the bottom, with IP, dates, general location and such. Just assume this was seen by her, say nothing and move on. Not worth it given everything else.

kh123 said...

...All said, is for the better ultimately. Imagine being this attached to her after months or years, or marriage, and then having this situation dropped on your lap.

Girls, work, hobbytown. Plenty of other things to do.

buzzardist said...

When you're running around trying to make a girl dependent on you and meanwhile are spying on her e-mail out of fear that she might be fooling around with other people, you're a lot farther down the food chain than an alpha or even a beta. Walk away the moment she starts blathering about non-exclusivity, if not before she gets the chance to make that excuse.

Laughingdog said...

"We get naked on her bed and she tells me to stop and kicks me out of her place at the last second."

Technically, he found a slut and failed to nail her. But his biggest mistake was in not cutting bait after the cook off thing.

There is way to much "give a shit" in him still.

cailcorishev said...

Yep, this is a reminder of how easy it is for a natural BETA, even one who learns game and builds some confidence and starts getting laid regularly, to slip right back into the old habits when a girl comes along whom he really connects with and the dynamic shifts from pursuit to relationship. At least he recognizes that he's experiencing "beta backslide," but even knowing it doesn't stop him from acting on it in pathetic ways.

Desiderius said...

Male hypergamy = unmanly.

If she's not crazy about you, she's the wrong one.

If no one is crazy about you, get to work.

Yohami said...

Fail.

"But I want to do something that stings... I'd like to tell her that I saw us being together for a long time or something, since I know she wants to sooner or later."

What would you feel if the fat girl you're moving on from told you that?

You have less value than she does, and you're acting like it. All that "shes going to miss me if we spend time together" is nonsense. Girls miss high value guys and dont miss less value guys. Comfort is not going to get you there because comfort is incredibly cheap for the normal girl, and this one has plenty of offers.

A girl can get a relationship whenever you want. What you were offering wasnt special.

If you want to do something that stings, your only resource, and also your best course of action, is to move on, cut contact, and be successful, become more attractive, and bang / get in a relationship with girls hotter than her.

Your current state of telling her the good feelings and vision of a future you had with her is only pathetic, because she's not missing any of those things.

Picture the fat girl telling you all the floury feelings she had for you.
Now picture the fat girl leaving without giving you attention, getting hotter and hanging out with Brad Pit.

What stings you more? A girl feels this x1000

Yohami said...

*A girl can get a relationship whenever she wants

What she cannot do is get a relationship with the kind of guy she wants, and you're purposely digging the hole in showing you're not that kind of guy

newrebeluniv said...

Also, the desire to "sting" her is just childish. Why waste your energy on that? Just accept the good times you had and move on. Don't be a dick.

--Hale

Jason773 said...

C'mon. Guys can't really be this pathetic, can they? This dude was barely dating her for a month which makes this pathetic.

Vox said...

Guys can't really be this pathetic, can they?

You think this guy is pathetic? He got two girls within a week. He's in the top 10 percent at a minimum. Men are FAR more pathetic than this ON AVERAGE.

Yohami said...

"Men are FAR more pathetic than this ON AVERAGE."

True.

JCclimber said...

In all fairness, even at my least attractive phase of life I could have gotten two girls in 2 days. I would just have had to lower my standards.
We don't know how hot these girls are, that is an important piece of data which is missing. I suppose the really low level omegas couldn't land two girls in a year, so he's not truly pathetic.

But it is obvious that a combo of Vox and Yohami's analysis is what this guy needs. And then maybe we'll stop calling him a guy and start calling him a man. Telling choice of words, that.

Durendal Almace said...

Most men, if not always striving to fight it, slide into beta or worse if the woman is hot enough.

As a community, we need to do a better job of calling each other out - which Vox and Yohami did - without beating him down so he can learn from his screw up and get up. Jason, no need to kick RC when he's already down. He screwed up by trying to treat a slut as anything more than a slut. Stupid? Absolutely. Common human mistake? Yes.

And RC, Hale is right. Don't go the childish route. Just follow Vox's advice and ignore her and write her off. Remember Roissy/Heartiste's maxim to never make a woman your mission.

Res Ipsa said...

The best thing for RC to do is show up at his next scheduled "date", enjoy the evening and leave. No comments, no break up, no drama AND NO GOING BACK. This chick is used to being a pump and dump. She was already getting ready for that after the first time in the sack. Just move on. If she ever confronts you and asks about it, shrug your shoulders and say "I dunno".

RC you need to be calm, cool, collected and nonchalant. The down side to casual sex is that you have to keep it casual. Don't let you hart follow your dick. IF you want be with a girl and feel like the whole universe will end without her, you need to aim higher than your local sperm receptacle. You f*ed a slut be grateful you didn't knock her up or get VD. Move on.

cailcorishev said...

Most men, if not always striving to fight it, slide into beta or worse if the woman is hot enough.

Very true. You can bang chick after chick and walk away indifferent, if they're in or below your usual SMV range. But snag a really hot one whom you would normally consider out of your league, and it's easy to slide right into oneitis and pedestalizing her.

Res Ipsa said...

Hey Vox.

He got two girls within a week. He's in the top 10 percent at a minimum.

Really? 2 chicks in a week puts you in the 90th percentile? Come on you're pulling my leg. Right? What's 2 girls in the same day make you?

Yohami said...

What's 2 girls in the same day make you?

below 1% in the tribe where this is happening. be ready to be the center of all the drama.

Vox said...

Really? 2 chicks in a week puts you in the 90th percentile? Come on you're pulling my leg. Right? What's 2 girls in the same day make you?

I know you're not that dumb, Res. Depending upon whom you believe the average man has between 6 and 12 women in his life. So, two in the same day, assuming they are not seriously ugly, is top .05 percent. Congratulations.

Res Ipsa said...

Yohami,

I don't get the whole mentality with some of these guys. If shagging chicks is the goal there has never been a period in the history of America where it is easier to accomplish. Last week we had a guy on here looking to bang a specific age range when cheating on his wife. This week we have a guy upset because he had sex with a slut, who as it turns out isn't interested in being anything more than a sperm receptacle for random penises and he is surprised.

I get it that some guys have a hard time learning to connect with females or that married guys need some help spicing up the bedroom. That all makes sense. Wanting random pussy for selfish gratification, getting what you want and then complaining about it blows my mind.

Finding or stringing along one or more females for a booby call isn't any big trick. The girls are down for it and are doing the same thing to you. Getting more than one in any given day is a matter of timing, not a change in the basic premise. The menage a trois is a greater achievement in terms of difficulty if they are girlfriends, or in sourcing if they are sluts. In any event you don't bitch if you have accomplished your goals.

Res Ipsa said...

Vox,

Its not a matter of intelligence. It's a matter of choice. If you are choosing casual sex and are getting it, what do you have to complain about? All accomplishing your goal makes you is successful. It doesn't make the goal worthwhile.

As far as more than one a day in the sack goes, if you have a stable of girls for booty calls, its a matter of timing not talent.

Congratulations.

No thank you. I'm ashamed of who I was.

Yohami said...

Res,

If shagging chicks is the goal there has never been a period in the history of America where it is easier to accomplish

If you're a woman, sure. If you're a topper guy, its a given. But since you seem clueless about what's this game like for the joe next door, I'll assume you're a woman and not a topper guy.

Wanting random pussy for selfish gratification, getting what you want and then complaining about it blows my mind.

I get it that some guys have a hard time learning to connect with females

Right, totally a woman. Having sex with 2 people the same day doesnt make you a .5%, but a huge slut. Find me on facebook.

In any event you don't bitch if you have accomplished your goals.

The ultimate goal is personal fulfillment. This guy obviously learnt some game because he was lonely. He tried to fill the void with casual sex, then he found someone he thought he could keep, just to find he had been used too, then he downspiraled into hacking mails and asking pity from random people on the interwebz. I dont see how not complaining about it would help him in any way. He didnt get what he wanted, but what he deserved.

Yohami said...

No thank you. I'm ashamed of who I was.

Yup, female.

Res Ipsa said...

Right, totally a woman.

You should inform my wife. I'm sure she'll be surprised.

Yohami said...

You should inform my wife. I'm sure she'll be surprised.

All those years, all the lies... how dare you.

Royal Tenenbaum said...

I won't judge. I've done dumber things than going through someone else's gmail. Right now you're worried that she has another dude and want to get out of it. Or, you need her to get into you. I get it. All is not lost.

1.) What's the best way to finish all of this?

The best way to finish this is for YOU TO FINISH IT. Whoever ends the 'relationship' has the power. Tell her you made other plans as soon as possible. Don't explain what your plans are or who those plans are with. If she asks what you'll be doing, either evade or don't respond. If she asks who you'll be with, definitely don't respond.

Do not tell her you thought about a future. Do not tell her that you missed her. Do not tell her that you thought the relationship was going somewhere. Do not let her know that you cared or that you are in any way disappointed in her. Why? Because she wants that from you. She wants it because she uses Tindr - and you - to stroke her ego.

The relationship is over. But you can probably get in a few more times.

newrebeluniv said...

Whoever ends the 'relationship' has the power.

HUH?? Power over what? A dead "relationship"? That is just stupid. How does that improve your life after that by even a smidgen? If the relationship is going to end, enjoy what you have while you have it. If you are not enjoying it, end it for that reason alone. If it isn't going the direction you want it to go, end it for that reason. Ending it first so you have the power is futile. Technically, they can both end it by just never calling the other again. Then who wins?

--Hale

Dexter said...

@Hale,

Come on. You've been dumped. You've dumped people. Which felt better?

If you've never been dumped and been mad you didn't get in first to dump her, you're... unusual.

A more precise formulation of what he said is, "Whoever is more willing to end the relationship has the power." This is usually the person with more options. If the man in the relationship is not an alpha and the girl is not completely repulsive, it's the girl who has more options and more power.

Royal Tenenbaum said...

Whoever ends the 'relationship' has the power.

HUH?? Power over what? A dead "relationship"? That is just stupid. How does that improve your life after that by even a smidgen? If the relationship is going to end, enjoy what you have while you have it. If you are not enjoying it, end it for that reason alone. If it isn't going the direction you want it to go, end it for that reason. Ending it first so you have the power is futile. Technically, they can both end it by just never calling the other again. Then who wins?


Obviously this guy is hooked on this girl. You don't get power over a dead relationship - you get power (or 'hand') over the other party by ending things. It's the preemptive strike. I say this for a few reasons: (1) I've done it myself, e.g. breaking up with a girlfriend by text and seeing how she responded; (2) I've had FWBs end things with me for a variety of reasons and even though I didn't like them a whole lot, getting dumped is a hit to the pride; and (3) most times, a person wants what they can't have. Guaranteed he wouldn't be so caught up in this girl if he didn't find out about this other guy. Basic psychology.

If the relationship is going to end, enjoy what you have while you have it.

There is no enjoying the imminent doom of a relationship.


Dexter said...

If the relationship is going to end, enjoy what you have while you have it.

This is the attitude of a man who thinks he can't get another woman quickly, and is desperate to enjoy the sex he has while he can have it.

A man who thought that he could get another woman quickly would see little or no point in investing further time and energy on a relationship (especially with a slut) that was going to end anyway.

thehaproject said...

Vox said: If one wants quality food, one goes to a decent restaurant, not the bowling alley. So, if RC wants a wife, or even just a proper girlfriend, how does it make any sense for him to go looking for one on Tinder?

But, if you are looking to add a couple of STDs to your medical history, Tinder can totally hook that up for you.

cb6f3d30-2f6b-11e3-9035-000bcdca4d7a said...

I don't think 2 women in one week, or even one day, is that unusual unless it's happening often. I've only been with 4 women in my life (and one of those was a one-nighter), but there was one day when I had two of them.

Johnny Caustic said...

RC: It is inherently beta to demand exclusivity in the first three months of a relationship. If you insist on exclusivity with every woman you're having sex with, your only choices are to give her the power in the relationship, or (here's an alternative for the more virtuous Christians) simply not have sex with her until well into the relationship.

I recommend Blackdragon's blog. As he is fond of pointing out, it is nearly always men, not women, who demand exclusivity first. Women secretly see that as insecure and loserish. If you want to maintain hand in a relationship, she should be asking you for exclusivity first, and you should meet that request reluctantly and not without extracting other concessions. Exclusivity should be a bargaining chip you offer only in exchange for her good behavior, not a chip you try to extract from her! In exchange for your fidelity, you should demand not only her fidelity but other things in return (e.g. minimal bitchiness or drama), with an end to the exclusivity agreement the moment she falls sort of your standards for a lifelong relationship.

Until that bargain has been made, there is no non-beta way to be jealous. (After that bargain has been made, it is of course alpha to demand that she keep up her end of the bargain, and if she doesn't, immediately end the agreement.)

Men who give away exclusivity for free are akin to women who give away sex for free. The opposite sex gives them no respect.

Moving on...your response to her reluctance to be exclusive...was to smother her? Are you kidding us?

Do not tell her you "saw us being together for a long time". It will not sting her; it will make her guffaw. Your choices are to ignore her or (if she eventually needs a fix again) ignore her until she gets in touch with you, then try to have sex with her again. But don't pursue anything more than sex from her.

Lok Land said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lok Land said...

"You don't get power over a dead relationship - you get power (or 'hand') over the other party by ending things. It's the preemptive strike. I say this for a few reasons: "

RC cannot gain hand in this case. It might be possible to rein her in but that's like trying to hold a ball of fire. Bad idea.

The point in him being the one to end it has less to do with gaining hand over her and more to do with clearing his mind of all the 'ILU forever and ever' shit that is in his head. Thus clearing him up to move on.

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