Thursday, October 31, 2013

Alpha Mail: the case of the reluctant spinster

PS writes on behalf of a female relative:
I wonder if you'd do a post on a conundrum I have, to get your take and the readers input. I'm sure other women have this predicament. I have a relative that is a 37 year old female virgin who has finally begrudgingly and tearfully admitted that she would like to be married, problem is she is overweight (though not ugly, SMV 4-5 and has flattering curves) and lacks any understanding of how to deal with the opposite sex.

She is a primary school teacher and has primarily associated with older women and overweight female friends her entire life. The family has left that part of her life alone and was pretty much resigned to her being a spinster.

Thanks to game blogs I probed her constantly and eventually she cracked and admitted the truth, she has preserved a stoic exterior but deep down there is a massive well of disappointment, sadness and regret. She isn't a feminist but the older women in her life (mother, aunts and family friends) failed her miserably (they basically avoided the topic) and she imbibed the independent lifestyle (travel, expensive trinkets etc).

What advice would you give to help her find a husband? I'm willing to pound the pavement and introduce her to guys.
First, I would inform her that all hope is not lost, not yet. Many men value a lack of a carousel history, and some place particular value on virginity. She is in much better POTENTIAL shape than the average 40 year-old with an N over 20 and a pair of ill-behaved brats.

Second, I would go over her diet and lack of exercise with her. Get her to the gym! She should be lifting free weights as well as doing cardio; let her know that she can be in good and relatively slender shape by Halloween next year if she is willing to work at it. It won't be easy, but it is entirely doable.

Third, get her away from the den of sloth that is her social circle. All peer groups tend to influence their members for either good or evil, but few are as pernicious as the slovenly coven of the sort PS describes here. The moment she starts showing signs of raising her SMV, and concomitantly, her status within the social circle, her friends are going to turn on her with a fury that will have to be seen to be believed. Fat women HATE slender women, particularly slender women who used to be fat women. She needs to be prepared for that and reminded that "friends" who oppose her self-improvement are no true friends.

Fourth, encourage her to be looking for men who are 45+. I don't think she'll be inclined to any alpha-chasing, but as we know from our early teenage years, sexual power in the hands of women who have never had it before tends to go to their heads. She should cast aside any notion of making up for lost time and focus on the mission of finding the right man to marry. She has time, but she doesn't have a lot of time.

Fifth, protect her as she transforms and gradually becomes desirable to the deltas and bangable to the betas and lesser alphas. She likely has no means of discerning the predators from the potential husbands, so PS must get her to accept the idea of using him as a filter to separate the wheat from the chaff before she appears on their radar.

Susan Walsh was entirely wrong when she posited that men want women to lose their SMV. Quite the opposite, we want to see all women maximize it. It is women who aren't always so keen on the idea that other women might rise in value. So, I'm sure that all the men here will wish PS and his relative good luck in their mutual project, assuming they both decide to embark on Operation Ring-on-the-Finger.

27 comments:

Unknown said...

excellent advice. PS should become henry higgins to her eliza doolittle. the difficulty will be to move outside her comfort zone and actually change herself.

Spacetraveller said...

Good advice!
Your point about things going to her head is very important, I have to say.

The fact that she is a virgin is good. Very good. But to a potential husband, the question as to WHY she is a virgin is equally important. Is she a virgin only because she is fat and undesirable? Or is she a virgin because she actually values her virginity and would like it as a 'gift' to the man she marries, AND she turned down many previous suitors in her quest to be a virgin on her wedding night?

The reason this is important takes me back to my point about the significance of her virginity to any man who would like to marry her. If when she has lost a lot of weight and become attractive to most men she is now in a hurry to lose the virginity to a man NOT her husband, then the reason for her virginity in the first place was not because of any strong ideals she had, but simply because no-one was interested.

She should be consistent with her goals. If the goal IS to get married, she should stick to that even after she has become more attractive. She should continue the no sex policy until her wedding night.

And for sure, she would end up with a man who truly values her AND her virginity, and he would have no problem making her his - for life.

I think that's how it works.

I always say on my blog: Virginity per se is not enough. There is so much more to it than mere virginity!

And I agree that it matters little how old one is. Sure, there is the little matter of fertility, but in the grand scheme of things, where fertility is concerned, a virginal 37 year old may be actually more fertile than a promiscuous 25 year old who has had several STDs, is on The Pill and has had one abortion or two. It's all relative...

Good luck to the lady! I wish her well, and wish to be invited to the wedding in a year or two :-)

tz said...

For nutrition, see dirtdoctor.com or other sitr, LCHF should add two points by itself and save her from diabetes.

Tell her not to cut her hair until it nearly reaches her waist. Braid or bun as needed.

Dress modestly but feminine and attractive. Maybe a skirt that goes well past her knees. Think dance of the seven veils, women need to preserve their mystery, especially if she is primarrily targeting MMV over SMV.

Religion was not described, but work out what she wants - some men want a wife but no children, some want w wife that will homeschool a large brood. Also decide if a divorcee with or without kids is acceptable. The point of this is she won't be happy if she is too desperate to be married and finds the wrong man. Same thing with head of household v.s. provider. - does she want one or both. She might not get an Alpha in the sense here, butt there are men who would be happy in a dominant role. She may want an adult child - I hope not.

tz said...

Correction DiEt Doctor

You can often drop 10-20% without hitting the gym just by giving up sugar and starches -carbs. And it will be easier to hit the gym when you aren't in insulin shock but can actually burn your own fat for energy, but that takes 2 weeks to a month to start.

Ian Ironwood said...

Here's my advice, in one of my more popular posts:

http://www.theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2012/12/girl-game-why-its-not-hopeless.html

Nothing is impossible for the woman who understands the SMP and has the ambition to play to her strengths.

FIBRE said...

Stay away from female how to blogs.

e96dd1c6-d05b-11e2-ad29-000bcdcb2996 said...

Leaving the diet material to others, I'd suggest:

a. Take up a martial sport. Men participate in those. I've always considered fencing to be the best for that kind of socializing, but karate, judo, shooting, etc., will do nearly as well. Burn calories, get your mind off your rumbling stomach, and meet men.

b. Try exotic hobbies. Not the adrenalin junkie sports, the weird stuff. Bagpipe playing. Bonsai. (I do neither, BTW).

c. Dress well. Skirts and dresses. Knee-length is a sure winner. Long hair is always a plus, worn up or down.

d. Once you find a good man, be companionable, affectionate, and emotionally supportive. Yes, he'll try to maintain the steely-eyed composure of the Uber Alpha Male - but inside, he can always use some boosting.

e. Learn to graciously let men be helpful, if you don't do so now. There is no excuse for treating a man rudely for the simple courtesy of holding the door, or anything else of the sort.

f. Smile. Especially at the guy who is worn down from a long day of work.

newrebeluniv said...

4-5 and fat? This is likely a polite way of saying she is really a 2-3. The advice here for her to lose weight is most likely to help her but least likely to be followed. Very few fat chicks are willing to admit that they need to change and are further willing to admit that they were wrong all those times they told themselves that they couldn't.

It is so much easier to tell the world to accept them as they are and love them curves (lumps) and all.

--Hale

swiftfoxmark2 said...

It is so much easier to tell the world to accept them as they are and love them curves (lumps) and all.

Unacceptable.

Men should stand up and inspire women to change themselves for the better. Instead we allow them to remain unattractive and unappealing out of fear of hurting their feelings.

Just be honest. Alphas make no apologies for honesty. Or for much else for that matter.

cb6f3d30-2f6b-11e3-9035-000bcdca4d7a said...

If I were looking for a wife, I wouldn't consider a woman who had reached age 37 without ever being married, no matter what she looked like now. I'd figure there's a reason why she never did, and I don't want to find out the hard way what it is.

If PS's relative succeeds in her quest, I hope it doesn't turn out to be a case of "be careful what you wish for, you might get it." Not every woman is better off with a husband.

Alexamenos said...

But to a potential husband, the question as to WHY she is a virgin is equally important. Is she a virgin only because she is fat and undesirable? Or is she a virgin because she actually values her virginity and would like it as a 'gift' to the man she marries, AND she turned down many previous suitors in her quest to be a virgin on her wedding night?

With due respect this sounds like a woman logic.

WHY she is a virgin isn't nearly so important as THAT she is a virgin. THAT she is a virgin means the potential husband won't be tacitly sharing her love and devotion with dozens of distant memories (and maybe some not so distant). THAT she is a virgin means he won't be planting his seed in dirty soiled soil. WHY she is a virgin is secondary at best.

Brad Andrews said...

> "If I were looking for a wife, I wouldn't consider a woman who had reached age 37 without ever being married, no matter what she looked like now. I'd figure there's a reason why she never did, and I don't want to find out the hard way what it is."

You would rather have a women who had been married and divorced? No thank you. Yes, being alone all that time would raise issues, but I would rather have those than the alternate bonding ones.

Unknown said...

PS should give her one of these --> bit.ly/17ZIKwi (disclaimer: no relation)

And yes, he should protect her from assholes and coach her thru this phase.
And what about bringing in some decent women as role-models? Any self-respecting PUA will have a bunch of numbers of friend-zoned females somewhere ;-)

Best luck to PS

cb6f3d30-2f6b-11e3-9035-000bcdca4d7a said...

Yes, I'd definitely rather a divorcee; I've been married to one (who was divorced twice) for 21 years.

HanSolo said...

Good advice, Vox.

My post on girl game might be of use too:

http://www.justfourguys.com/girl-game-is-simple-yet-so-hard/

rycamor said...

Girl game? Not to fear, ladies... science to the rescue! Discover Magazine has it all figured out for you: Evolution Explains Why Mean Girls Get the Guys.

Athor Pel said...

There is one surefire method for smoking out the players from the genuine potential husbands. Don't put out until the ring is on the finger. Players want the notch, above all else they want the notch.

She needs a thorough knowledge of pick up tactics as used by inveterate poon hounds and she needs to know how she will feel as those tactics are used on her. She also needs to know the best tool she has is her feet, walk away at the first sign a man shows his true colors as a pick up artist. Otherwise she is just so much meat to the slaughter.

As long as she stays near him the outcome comes closer to what he desires. Each compliance test leads to the next and a man that knows how to overcome last minute resistance is going to plow right through whatever resistance she may put up and she will love every minute of it while hating herself later.

Women were created to obey men, they obey strong willed men willingly. They are wired to enjoy that type of obedience.


Basically she needs a father that gives a damn about her, a man she can use as her source of authority in order to resist whatever other men want her to do that isn't in her best interests.

tz said...

@Athor - I agree assuming it is the WEDDING ring, not the engagement ring.

Roissy also just posted something which is perfectly on-topic for this thread.

Girl game applies, as does the general Game information, e.g. she is probably hard-wired to do shit-tests and confused why she loses all attraction for a man that will give her what she wants on a silver platter. Know thyself.

Also it depends if she really wants to be married - as wife and mother. Not a virgin lesbian, or simply not attracted to masculinity or the male (C.S. Lewis Perelandra or That Hideous Strength puts it into context the best). That means not being a bitchy liberal feminist. I worry about the NEA as she is a teacher. Her relatives too as others have noted.

Spacetraveller said...

Alexamenos,

"With due respect this sounds like a woman logic."


Ah, probably because I *am* a woman :-)

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Yeah good luck with that.

mickeypavic said...

The difficulty is that most ordinary guys do very little approaching, just listen to the online PUA conversion stories and the number one commonality is that they didn't approach and it took all their bravery to overcome that phobia.

While women suffer from apex fallacy men suffer from the 'all women get approached all the time' fallacy, simply isn't true. Women rarely talk about it as their confindence is wrapped up in how they are viewed by men, it is devastating to their psyche to admit they aren't approached.

So a chaste girl that doesn't hit the clubs and has a full work schedule that doesn't interact with men (teachers, child care, aged care etc) and doesn't get regularly approached has much difficulties finding a man.

I'm sure there are women out there with this predicament but they simply won't talk about it.

LibertyPortraits said...

@mickeypavic

Yeah, beta men are smart not to approach because they know they are going to get rejected, they know that women want the bad boys. What they lack is inner game, which is essentially not caring at all what other people think of them, especially women. So, I wouldn't necessarily consider it a phobia, it is rational if you consider that they are almost always right not to approach, since they are unattractive and women feel entitled to higher status males.

haus frau said...

Fat women HATE slender women, particularly slender women who used to be fat women.

feminist version of slut shaming. Expect a lot of comments in the line of "you shouldn't feel the need to change yourself for a man. He should love you the way you are." In other words, if she want to change herself for the better, there's something wrong with her and, of course, they just want to help if she needs someone to confide in. In fact, it might be helpful if she kept her motives to herself when friends notice her improved appearance as she might feel quite insecure about making so many changes in her life at once.

haus frau said...

Fat women HATE slender women, particularly slender women who used to be fat women.

feminist version of slut shaming. Expect a lot of comments in the line of "you shouldn't feel the need to change yourself for a man. He should love you the way you are." In other words, if she want to change herself for the better, there's something wrong with her and, of course, they just want to help if she needs someone to confide in. In fact, it might be helpful if she kept her motives to herself when friends notice her improved appearance as she might feel quite insecure about making so many changes in her life at once.

Thomas Howard said...

To those who are concerned that a woman could make it to 37 as a virgin because of her appearance, no woman is so fat, ugly, or disgusting that she couldn't trick some inebriated, blind, or disabled omega into throwing her a bone at some point. They say the desert is full of mirages.

Kiwi the Geek said...

The chaste women who don't get approached, (as Mickey Pavic describes) wouldn't reject the beta men (described by LibertyPortrait) because when we think no men are attracted to us, we're shocked & flattered when one is. There's a whole subset of women who behave differently from the ones described here, in ways that matter if you're looking for a virgin.

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