Thursday, June 20, 2013

Why men don't marry

Dr. Helen lists eight reasons:
1. You'll lose respect. A couple of generations ago, a man wasn't considered fully adult until he was married with kids. But today, fathers are figures of fun more than figures of respect: The schlubby guy with the flowered diaper bag at the mall, or one of the endless array of buffoonish TV dads in sitcoms and commercials. In today's culture, father never knows best. It's no better in the news media. As communications professor James Macnamara reports, "by volume, 69 percent of mass media reporting and commentary on men was unfavorable, compared with just 12 percent favorable and 19 percent neutral or balanced."
2. You'll lose out on sex. Married men have more sex than single men, on average - but much less than men who are cohabiting with their partners outside of marriage, especially as time goes on. Research even suggests that married women are more likely to gain weight than women who are cohabiting without marriage. A Men's Health article mentioned one study that followed 2,737 people for six years and found that cohabiters said they were happier and more confident than married couples and singles.
I can thing of two more:

9.  Technology.  Porn and video games are, to be blunt, considerably more attractive than the average overweight woman these days. The realistic answer to the question: "wouldn't a real woman be better?" for the average BETA male, is no.  And this is a problem that is only going to get worse.

10. Marriage provides no rights or rewards, only responsibilities.  The current institution of marriage offers little in the way of incentive for men and a great deal of disincentive.  Do the term "marital rights" of men and "marital duties" of women even make sense anymore? Were it not for religion and societal inertia, marriage would already be a dead institution.

32 comments:

Tobias Templo said...

Change responsibilities to burdens/problems/headaches and #10 is perfect.

Rotten said...

That #10 is the big one. People respond to incentives.

My understanding of Muslim Sharia is that after a divorce, Women get primary custody of the kids, but only until age 9 (girls) or age 11 (boys). As a result, women don't want to get divorced and lose their kids, and kids become a reason for the hamster to rationialize staying married instead of a reason for the hamster to rationialize divorce.

I think implementing such a rule would keep mairrages together. And although that addresses a different aspect (why mairrages breakup vs why they never start), I think some permanence would appeal to men who would consider mairrage.

Trust said...

Marriage is no longer a commitment, it is a lopsided legal contract that completely overhauls the power structure.

Imagine having a mutually beneficial business relationship. Then imagine the business partner advocates a contract that formalizes the partnership, with the stipulation that if the partnership fails for any reason, the other person gets everything, you get nothing.... and to top it off, the other person gets claim to your future businesses even if they gave another job. Who would sign off on that deal? Who could trust the other person, even if they are honest and caring, to endure hardships and work hard for success with so much incentive behind complacency?

The state turns half of married people into spoiled entitled little children who never get the.blame for anything, and them we wonder what went wrong.

I've been married 9 years. I did so due to religious convictions and honor. However, for the non religious I would never recommend it.

efishman412 said...

"The realistic answer to the question: "wouldn't a real woman be better?" for the average BETA male, is no."

Truer words have not been spoken, especially in our oh-so-disturbing present day and age. However, I would argue that those apply more to Gammas like myself or low-Deltas/Omegas than to Betas, who still have some redeeming value as far as the SMP is concerned.

Gammas far prefer their own constructed reality to that of the real world is the conventional wisdom. No arguments from this deluded corner. Plus, due to ancient biological constructs as well as physical reality, society elevates and rewards qualities that are the diammetric opposite of what the Gamma is or can ever hope to deliver.

When one of us is considering the alternative to our diminshed lives, with marriage supposedly being the counterpoint, one is left asking the question Ricky Watters asked after he was chastised for not going across the middle agressively to snag a ball thrown there by Randall Cunningham back in 1995.

"For who, for what?

If we would never be able to command the affection of a woman of quality who will treat us with consistent love and respect, then I'm sorry, but I'll keep doing what I'm doing. However pathetic that might look to society at large. The same society, I may add, that's been doing nothing but sneering contemptuously in our direction ever since JK. With all the talk of individual responsibility and the alpha approach of owning your life, one must be rational in their expectations based on the only information available to them. Past experience, which in the case of the Gamma is so bitter and painful. Cost/benefit just doesn't lead to marriage, folks. Not for the likes of us.

The key is to consciously choose this type of life, which is what I have actually done. Once you do that, you can go about it with a lot less stress, as you would truly be living it for yourself. By yourself, to be certain, but most importantly, for yourself.

Mark said...

Another reason is financial. Men can't afford to marry. An increasing part of their incomes are taken in taxes to support a welfare state that benefits mostly women and that most women voted for. It's also harder now to get that good paying job you could support a wife with when it's being given to a less qualified female instead for affirmative action reasons.

Desert Cat said...

The problem with #9 is that whacking off lowers your testosterone levels. For your average BETA, that just feeds into a negative spiral. Which, I suppose is fine if you're MGTOW, but not if you want any hope of success with women.

Herb Nowell said...

@Desert Cat:

Taking #9 in consideration what is the value of success with women?

That's what all these bullet point are in the end: given the costs of marriage in various ways what does a woman provide to compensate for that cost. For far and away the majority of Western women under 50 (maybe even higher, but that's the top of the range I know) nothing. In fact, most add additional burdens (bitchy attitude, princess expectations) on top of the traditional and post feminist versions not only is the cost of marriage higher the product is inferior.

Success with women in the West is like saying "hey, I got a Yugo...loving that luxury car feel".

Desert Cat said...

Not arguing for marriage here. Just that there is an additional consideration if you're dating Rosie Palmer.

HanSolo said...

The misandry in the media and pop culture is definitely there.

Men are blamed for most of the problems in the world (not that some men don't cause many of them but women do too), described as creepy, oppressive, slothful oafs who just want to get laid but can't...while at the same time being portrayed as the privileged rulers who have everything and are getting sex as often as they want (apex fallacy).

HanSolo said...

Also, point 10 is huge. What's in it for a man?

Marrying just means your post-marriage acquired assets will be divied up if you divorce and since married men still make more than women do, on average, then men are the ones to lose.

Of course, if you're like Guy Ritchie (meaning you marry a higher earning woman, like he did with Madonna) then I suppose you make out well upon divorce...but that whole law is unfair and should be scrapped so that no one who gets a ton of cash they didn't help earn.

HanSolo said...

@Vox

Just wanted to let you know that Ted D and I and a couple other guys formed a blog, www.justfourguys.com, A Blog To Navigate The Modern World Of Dating and Mating, and we added you to our blog role.

It's a red pill blog (at least our brand of red pill) that is striving to educate people about the realities of male-female interactions and some of the nonsense that radfems are wreaking upon society, along with some other common sense advice along the lines of finance, emergency preparedness and so on.

Feel free to check it out and comment from time to time.

reductron said...

In addition to what Rotten mentioned regarding custody in Islamic Shariah, the divorced woman gets an amount of money agreed upon at time of marriage (divorce dowry), not half of the man's wealth.

She cannot divorce the man either. She could ask a Qadi to get 'unrooted' (the closest translation I can think of) from the marriage, in which case she'd have to return what the husband has given her throughout marriage (gifts, things beyond necessities, etc), and give up the divorce dowry

That's what I recall.

beerme said...

10. Marriage provides no rights or rewards, only responsibilities. The current institution of marriage offers little in the way of incentive for men and a great deal of disincentive. Do the term "marital rights" of men and "marital duties" of women even make sense anymore? Were it not for religion and societal inertia, marriage would already be a dead institution.

Modern marriage is nothing more than dating with her ending up with a monetary payoff at the end. Not to mention the likelihood of losing your kids if you have any.

I could probably rationalize the financial loss, but the potential to lose your children has me saying that I'll likely never marry.

Surrogacy seems the safest option for procreation to this uninformed commenter.

Trust said...

I don't agree with the "studies" who say married people have more sex than single people. Those include people like omegas and medusas who will never get married.

Most married men would be having more sex if they stayed single.

Crowhill said...

I believe in marriage and am happily married, and would wish the same for my children. But I believe in marriage on radically different terms than what our society (and the laws of our society) offers. It's hard to know how to advise my children -- especially my boys.

Bike Bubba said...

OK, wait a second on #2. Here's the study.

http://papers.ccpr.ucla.edu/papers/PWP-CCPR-2006-003/PWP-CCPR-2006-003.pdf

It actually finds that in all relevant areas, cohabiters TRAIL the married--and does not even control clearly for age, duration of relationship, and such. 40% failure rate for cohabiters vs. 19% for the married. For those who forgo marriage, it's a 60% failure rate of relationships. The numbers are .Not.Even.Close.

And porn ranking up there with a real woman? No way--you don't have to look up the "Women of Wal-Mart" to find a young lady who is available.

ThirdMonkey said...

Trust, I've been married for fifteen years, and except for when my wife is recovering from childbirth, I get laid like tile. The amount of effort I would have to go through to get as much action as I do as a married man would be prohibitively costly in terms of money, time, effort, and potential rejection. My wife and I would rather put forth the extra effort necessary to keep ourselves in a generally bangable condition for each other. We also could give a shit as to how the rest of the world treats marriage. We're in it for the long haul, so we might as well enjoy each other as often as we can.

Trust said...

Thirdmonkey,

I don't doubt that is true, and good for you and you're wife. There are always exceptions to the rule.

Brad Andrews said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Brad Andrews said...

Trust, I am not sure about the exact celibacy rate, but I know that I would have more sex married than I would have single even if my wife and I never had sex again since I would not have sex outside marriage. Religious convictions may play a role in that. Of course it is uncertain how much of a role since religious convictions seem very weak even on those that claim them.

Self-reported studies have dangers on all sides.

tz said...

That is why there is a push for Gay Marriage. Judges heads would spin in a divorce, then green fluid would hit the ceiling. There are two men or two women to try to figure out who is the privileged victim. In traditional HETEROSEXUAL marriage, men are screwed (pun intended). But I've maintained the contemporaneous rise of of feminism and the number of poor little Lambdas is related.

Note the cart before the horse, or perhaps elephant, or as a recent roissy post, whale "average overweight woman". The horror is that average, the 50% (or median or mode which is worse - go to wikipedia and look up the statistical terms) point is beyond morbidly obese. Twiggy used to be the ideal. Roseanne Barr (who thankfully has discovered - too late for some - that she is a lesbian) is a sufficient counter argument.

Better virtual women, even mutant variants who are women of color and can simultaneously nurse triplets, than 90% of "real women". The surreal has become the real.

Bernard Brandt said...

Reason No. 11: (which may be reasonably derived from the first ten)

Unless the male in question is independently wealthy, and has both a JD and an MBA with specialization in Finance (or the knowledge and skill set which those degrees require), said male is unlikely to combat successfully the legal buggery so amusingly called 'divorce' and 'child support' these days.

Desert Cat said...

Trust, I must be another "exception to the rule then."

The secret to getting laid like tile inside a marriage is married man game.

Or being a natural alpha, of course.

84829942-3a88-11e0-83da-000bcdcb5194 said...

My god, the year 2013, and you useless eaters are STILL reproducing and having children?

I am very thankful to LUCIFER, to the Illuminati, and to Monsanto that they are sterilizing vast numbers of people with GMOs. A Russian study of GMOs found that lab rats fed GMOs could no longer reproduce after the 3rd generation.

THe 99 percent, ARE the useless eaters, who contribute nothing of value to the human race. The Illuminati is CORRECT in killing them off and sterilizing them.

Heil LUCIFER, the glorious Light Bringer!
Heil the Illuminati!
Heil David Rockefeller!
Heil Bill Gates!
Heil Henry Kissinger!
Heil the Rothschilds!

-John Rambo, Anti-Feminist Soldier and Founder of the Boycott American Women blog

Trust said...

Alphas are exceptions as most men aren't alphas. Just like how women who are 10s may get away with more than less attractive women doesn't invalidate the rule bc most women aren't 10s.

Fact is, married man game is useful to treat a symptom but doesn't help the cause. If the same game was necessary before marriage as after, then this wouldn't be as big of a problem. Unfortunately, a woman responds to her man's exact same gestures much differently after the wedding. In fact the very first time she rejects him or emasculates him may be after the wedding.

I'm all for married man game, and being alpha is great for men who can pull it off. But that doesn't fix the court system or backwards incentives plaguing most men. Even alphas, should push ever come to shove, are in a much weaker legal position than their wives.

rycamor said...

Trust said...
Fact is, married man game is useful to treat a symptom but doesn't help the cause. If the same game was necessary before marriage as after, then this wouldn't be as big of a problem. Unfortunately, a woman responds to her man's exact same gestures much differently after the wedding.


This reveals a major difference in mens vs. women's thinking. To a man, he may think he's making exactly the same gesture as he did before (so why isn't this working?), but the fact is the situation has changed, and that in itself changes the gesture as far as she's concerned. Just like a man who has established himself as an alpha can tell a woman "you're hot", and it is taken as a completely different gesture than a creepy omega male saying the same thing.

Anyway, it is a rare man who acts the same way with his wife as he did when she was just his latest girlfriend. Most men sense that the power balance has shifted once they gave lifelong commitment, so their response is to either pile on the Beta, dote on her and try to do everything they can to please her, or to just give up, and start gaining weight, dressing like a schlump, and complaining about the lack of sex and respect. I would guess neither is much of a turn-on.

Once you are married, the temptation is to think "NOW finally I don't have to put on such a masculine image. I've caught the fish. I can relax now. I can show more of my weaknesses and frustrations because I have a lifelong confidant." No no no. If anything, you have to be more of a man after marriage than before, because you have more responsibility. Yes, the legal and societal situation sucks, but that only comes into play once she has lost all respect for you.

Trust said...

@rycamor: "as far as she's concerned"

Oh my. You probably don't even realize you made my case.

The increase in beta is usually the the woman's perception moreso than the man's actions. If he initiates sex before the wedding, he has more power to dump her so he normally doesn't have to. After, she can reject him with much less fear or recourse.

And the notion that this only comes into play after she loses respect for him ignores the reality that she would respect him more if he could tell her to put out or get out like he could pre-marriage. We give wives a loaded gun then wonder why she doesn't respect the guy in the cross hairs anymore like she did before.

Trust said...

@rycamor: "as far as she's concerned"

Oh my. You probably don't even realize you made my case.

The increase in beta is usually the the woman's perception moreso than the man's actions. If he initiates sex before the wedding, he has more power to dump her so he normally doesn't have to. After, she can reject him with much less fear or recourse.

And the notion that this only comes into play after she loses respect for him ignores the reality that she would respect him more if he could tell her to put out or get out like he could pre-marriage. We give wives a loaded gun then wonder why she doesn't respect the guy in the cross hairs anymore like she did before.

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Harry Mann said...

I can recall when many of the guys I knew were getting married. It seemed that all of the blushing brides were at what was then the cut off age of 25 tender years. Fortunately, I didn't catch what was going around. Now I look at these guys and the amount of alimony they have to pay to women they have an acrimonious relationship with. The best they can do is to forget her, but they still have to write those checks. They never saw it coming. Why they never saw it coming has to do with willful self deception. For some reason, I have understood women better than they ever did, despite the fact that they spent 20 years in marriage. They didn't know much about women before they married would be the best explanation I could offer you. I intend on having children some day soon. The mother of my children will most likely be half my age, beautiful and slender. And I will not marry her, most likely ever. But our children will have the best academic education that I can afford and we will all live comfortably. If not, I will cut my loses, which should not be significant. If the mother of my children should get on my bad side, then she probably will not receive generous consideration, like she would in a divorce settlement. I will personally settle with her in the manner I reason as just and fit. Lawyers be damned. This isn't to say that I'm not generous, I am simply not a naïve fool. My kids may have a father who is as old as a grandfather, but they will come into their inheritance while they are relatively young, hopefully university graduated, and ready to begin their own independent lives while having inherited assets to provide them with financial stability.

Kristen Cunningham said...

If there are no incentives to being married for a guy then they obviously take love for granted.

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