Tuesday, April 30, 2013

How dumb do they think we are?

To reiterate:  never, ever, ever, pay any attention to women when they give you advice about what women find attractive:
Forget flash cars, expensive restaurants and lavish bouquets - the way to impress the nation’s women is to fasten on a tool belt and get drilling. High maintenance females have voted DIY skills sexier in a man than sporting prowess and cooking capabilities.  A new study has revealed women’s top turn ons - and turn offs - when it comes to a man's skill set, taking in everything from assembling furniture and unblocking drains to scoring on the football pitch or cooking up a storm in the kitchen.
Sure. That explains how Joe the Plumber stole Irina Shayk from Cristiano Ronaldo and why you can't go to a hardware store without seeing more hot girls exposing their implants to men in tool belts than you see at a rock concert.

If this doesn't undermine the perceived legitimacy of social surveys, I don't know what will.  Men, this is how hopelessly stupid women genuinely believe you to be.  "If I dangle even the merest prospect of sex in front of him, maybe he'll put my Ikea furniture together for me."

If a woman ever tries to pull the "you know what I think is really sexy" line on you, and you not only buy it, but actually perform the supposedly sexy task, you're a delta. At best.

67 comments:

mmaier2112 said...

What if I say "I take payment in sex, up front" before performing said tasks?

Less delta?

Crowhill said...

Isn't there a legitimate distinction between "the kind of man I want to attract" and "what I find attractive in the man I have"?

mmaier2112 said...

And to be fair, I don't think the article was talking about PRO footballers, was it?

There's a little difference between me scoring tons of goals in soccer in a weekly pickup game at the local park and that Spice Girl's husband.

szook said...

Yep, and as the survey demonstrates they purposely blur the line to attempt collection of beta benefits.....

Magister Wood said...

Listen to what they say; do the opposite.

Scott said...

How dumb do they think we are? Judging from most of my male friends, about as dumb as we actually are. I have friends who are decent with women but still turn into supplicating betas around a pretty girl and are convinced that if they buy/do enough things for her, eventually she'll have sex with them. When I ask if it has ever worked, they correctly come up with "no" but can't connect the dots.

Daniel said...

Giving a woman money in exchange for sex isn't going to be any less delta mmaier2112!

Yikes. That's delta at best, unless you are really just screwing around and making fun of the whole thing by saying "You can lie about the sex and I can lie about doing something useful." In which case, nothing and no one gets done, of course.

mmaier2112 said...

If I get paid IN SEX for putting together furniture how is that giving a woman money?

Res Ipsa said...

Crowhill,

Athol over at MMSL would agree with you. Although I think he would limit it to a marraige situation.

mmaier2112 said...

And, no, I was not serious.

I'll do favours for friends and family. Not for prospective mates. Hell, I don't even do Valentine's Day for women I like.

Z-d said...

I wondered the same thing, mmaier2112.

Also, glad to see another Hoosier on here.

Yohami said...

stuff women have said was sexy, and I did, with great results

"do you know what's really sexy? when a man..."

- wears an uniform
- is in a black suit
- has a tattoo on the chest
- fucks me while I sleep
- plays sports shirtless
- doesnt ask for my permission
- orders food for me

I'd say better check what kind of behavior she's framing as sexy. It might be delta behavior and she might be manipulating you into unsexy stuff, or she might not

David said...

I especially second the uniform...

I would say doing a "manly" toolbelt task is only sexy for a woman who is already your wife or girlfriend. And you have to already have an alpha frame even before you did the job.

Joe Blow said...

I dunno David. It may depend on the task. Grouting tile, not so much. But I had to split some wood out in front of the house last fall - chucking around huge chunks of a very old oak I'd cut down, using a splitting maul, wedges, violent hammering. It drew a small crowd of housewife spectators with big smiles.

Make of that what you will.

Jack Amok said...

Well, if she says she thinks it's so sexy when a guy unclogs her kitchen sink for her, start talking about plumbing while you unbutton her shirt. Most DIY tasks can provide a good double-entendre or two. See if she plays along.



GF Dad said...

It's all about context. If she asks you to come over and put together her waterbed, the situation is your's to screw up.
If she asks you to hang pictures, you can agree and lock in that beta orbiter position or you can do something else. That situation is yours to botch also.

When GF Mom asks me to do some chore or task, sometime it is just something that needs to done (taking garbage to the road) and I turn it into a chance to get her away from the kids and just ride around the neighborhood or get something to drink or eat. I try to make something mundane into something fun.
There are other things I do for her that definitely seems to make or situation better. I can't predict what exactly it will be, the only common denominator is that she has to be there to help with the shingles or the oil change or whatever it is. She has to participate for her to feel closer to me. And it helps if it's difficult and maybe a little dangerous. I can't vouch for other relationships, but that's the way ours works.

On the other hand, she could care less if I can rebuild a 600 Holley or replace a water heater if I don't include her in the task.

Also, there is just crap that has to be done. Folding and hanging clothes may or may not get you laid, but its got to get done. If you can get the sh*t that needs to be done when she's not around, so much the better. Laundry will never be a DHV, but it has to get done. Do not draw attention to it when you do it because housework will lower you in her eyes. Get-r-done when necessary and if she notices it great, if not, make like the laundry orcs were good to her and move on.

Vidad said...

"Well, if she says she thinks it's so sexy when a guy unclogs her kitchen sink for her, start talking about plumbing while you unbutton her shirt. Most DIY tasks can provide a good double-entendre or two. See if she plays along."

"Hey baybee... how about you empty my P-trap?"

80proofoinomancy said...

I 2nd Magister.

As a further example:

http://www.chacha.com/gallery/3883/what-should-you-never-say-to-a-woman

Just do the opposite of what women tell you.

Simply doing the opposite of the article's "suggestions" is solid Game; even if you’ve never read Roissy, RooshV, Mystery, etc and followed that one mantra, you’d have still have done 80% of things right.

Vidad said...

@80proofoinomancy

That's a pathetically stupid list. The dude that falls for that has no chance.

My favorite:

"Make Me a Sandwich

Rule #8: Don't tell her to make you a sandwich.

Actually, don't tell her to do anything. Ask her, like a decent human being! When you act like women are just put on the earth to bring you things and sleep with you, you make her think you're an abusive misogynist who uses aggressive and controlling behavior to try to distract from the fact that you have a tiny penis.

Be a man. If you want a beer, use your legs and get it yourself. If you want a sandwich, get your butt off of the couch and head to the kitchen. If you really want her to make one for you because she has much better culinary skills, ask her nicely.

Otherwise, you deserve to never get laid again. And that may be exactly what you get."

WHAT? Seriously? Do they not get how women LIKE to perform favors for men that turn them on?

Josh said...

Doesn't DIY stuff and culinary aptitude fall under the category of mastery? It doesn't matter if it's being able to change the oil, reset the wireless router, bring a boat safely into the marina when the engine dies, or cooking a nice meal. It's all about frame.

Daniel said...

If I get paid IN SEX for putting together furniture how is that giving a woman money?

You gave her furniture and your construction time, man. Labor is money.

When you get paid in sex in exchange for a good or service that you provide, that has a different, older term. It is simple economics.

Josh said...

Labor is money.

WARNING! LABOR THEORY OF VALUE ADVOCATE!

Retrenched said...

"How dumb do they think we are?"

Very, very dumb.

But to be fair, when we see so many white knights and manginas taking women's words at face value, and then jumping through one hoop after another to win their favor, even after getting friend-zoned over and over for their efforts... can we really blame women for thinking this way?

Nate said...

Vox... You're premise is correct. However... you are taking it to far.

Its like anything else. A man demonstrating capability and a take charge and handle shit attitude is sexy to women.

What is not sexy is a guy they manipulate into fixing things.

Is it more sexy to women than fame and power? Hell no. Does that mean its not sexy at all? No.

its like everything else. Fixing Shit = Capability. Capability leads to confidence leads to sexy.

Context matters most. A chick that is in real trouble... and you appear to snap your fingers and get it fixed just like that? She is impressed. Period.

I'll give a perfect example. I was driving DrWho's car with her... We were on I-40 somewhere in TN on a road trip. Suddenly the AC, the radio... basically everything on the dash just stops.

Obviously 10,000 negative thoughts rush through her head.

I just pull the car over... reach down and pop out the panel she didn't know was there. Do something she doesn't even remotely understand... and ***Poof*** everything works good as new.

I mean I get why you don't understand that this stuff impresses women. Being basically mechanically retarded... you have never seen it yourself. But trust me. It happens.

GF Dad said...

Josh said... It's all about frame.

Agreed and I meant to emphasize this more. You do what you're doing because you want to. Bring no attention to difficulty or pain. If things don't go as planned, an "oh, WTF, back to the drawing board" attitude will take you further in life than all of the cursing and hand wringing in the universe. This applies to women and life.

Jack Amok said...

HIM: So, you're implying you want to trade sex for mechanical help?

HER: Mayyyyyyyyy-be.

HIM (looking her up and down with a critical eye): Hmmmmmmmmmm. Just how good of a mechanic are you, anyway?

Stickwick said...

stuff women have said was sexy, and I did, with great results

Yeah, I have a similar track record with Husband. There are things he's done that have turned me on without him necessarily being aware of it, so I let him know for future reference. If it works, it's not delta. ;^)

realmatt said...

Nate what kind of car is it and what was the problem?

Yohami appears to be in Tyler Durdens secret club so he gets to hear honest statements it seems.

Anonymous said...

There is a a gem of a comment below the article though:

"Women like a good drilling? Well .. I never would have thunk it ..."

Yohami said...

realmatt, honesty is too big as a word.

I just get some good perks from the mix of nonsense

Pequod said...

Have to admit I think Nate has the right of it.

Capability = Sexy. Submission = Repulsive.

Nate said...

RealMatt

Saturn. Any time that much shit goes wrong at the same time... you can guarantee its just a fuse.

Pop the fuse panel... replace the fuse with the spare that's sitting there waiting to be used.

***poof*** Fixed.

All that's left is the blowjob.

Vidad said...

"All that's left is the blowjob."

And the sandwich.

Stingray said...

There are things he's done that have turned me on without him necessarily being aware of it, so I let him know for future reference. If it works, it's not delta.

Absolutely. It can be the most mundane thing to him, but I watch my husband do it and do it well and it's delicious.

I watched him sawzall a rusted bolt once. It was dreamy.

realmatt said...

Saturn. Any time that much shit goes wrong at the same time... you can guarantee its just a fuse.

Pop the fuse panel... replace the fuse with the spare that's sitting there waiting to be used.


Ah I thought you were going to tell me it was one of the new super computer cars that do everything for you with 240890843929048 settings for everything.

Nate said...

Guy Advice:

After you fixed something... don't brag about it. Don't act like you expect to be praised for it. These behaviors will ruin the effect. Simply move on to the next thing like it was no big deal.

rycamor said...

It's like when you find your wife trying to prop up a piece of plywood for a divider in the barn. You roll your eyes, grab the cordless drill and a box of screws, hand her the box, prop your need against the board, cock your hips, put the drill in position, hold out a hand and say "OK, gimme a screw."

(Chuckle, giggle)

"I thought you'd like that. OK, another... and another... going on down..."

(Arm slap)

Vidad said...

"After you fixed something... don't brag about it. Don't act like you expect to be praised for it. These behaviors will ruin the effect. Simply move on to the next thing like it was no big deal."

Totally. I've also found doing random, violent things is useful. Like walking around with a machete and decapitating young oaks popping up in the undergrowth.

Or kicking in the front door and screaming "ANY JEWS IN HERE???"

The One said...

OT- morning after pill now over the counter.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_MED_MORNING_AFTER_PILL?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-04-30-17-51-33

Wonder how that changes things, if a girl tries to get herself pregnant to get the money, guy drops the morning after pill in her juice the next morning.

Vidad said...

"Wonder how that changes things, if a girl tries to get herself pregnant to get the money, guy drops the morning after pill in her juice the next morning."

Other than the fact he may have just added murder to the sin of fornication?

That aside - it can't be good. Look at the result of The Pill on society.

leap of a beta said...

What I don't understand is why anyone would care about the opinion of self professed 'high maintenance females' in the first place. The article proclaims it and moves on so matter of factly it is as if they're listing a status symbol or credential.

While I understand the skills can be attractive in the right frame, and I myself have them, I certainly wouldn't use them on any woman that can be described as high maintenance.

Anonymous said...

There is clearly a disconnect between what a woman 'thinks' a handy man is and what one looks like in his natural habitat.

Me thinks they have been watching too much porn.

Then again maybe hairy arse cracks are sexy....

The Scolds' Bridle said...

I will only assemble IKEA furniture if we immediately have sex on top of it.

"Forniture", if you will.

David F. said...

I have never observed women to treat me better because I solve their technical problems. They are usually appreciative, but in the way they might be of a waiter. It doesn't help that they usually have no interest in whether the problem was trivial or required an expertise that would have cost them hundreds from a professional.

Men, on the other hand, are usually interested in knowing how I did something, might admire it, and will remember and respect me for my abilities.

Toby Temple said...

Nate. Did she said "I find a man sexy if he can fix these now"?

No?

Then your point is moot.

You saw something went poof and fix it without the need for her to provide an incentive.

whatever said...

What if you demand she takes off her shirt/blouse... to help her cool off from her burning passion.... while you put together the Ikea furniture?

Asking for sex for just a few hours work is a little much. Of course, once you get the top off, everything else is a lot easier.

earl said...

Men are very dumb.

And I say this after going to a college bar for the first time in years.

Nate said...

"Then your point is moot.

You saw something went poof and fix it without the need for her to provide an incentive."

No. Vox didn't limit his post just to manipulation. You read something he didn't write.

Sigyn said...

Absolutely. It can be the most mundane thing to him, but I watch my husband do it and do it well and it's delicious.

I watched him sawzall a rusted bolt once. It was dreamy.


Exactly, yes! Watching His Lordship move furniture, pound in nails, take apart my old washing machine for parts, or...well, even just reach something on a high shelf I can't, it's all SEXY.

Of course, it helps that I (1) am already attracted to him, (2) respect him like crazy, and (3) realize he doesn't HAVE to do these things.

Context, boys. Context is everything.

Anonymous said...

Of course, it helps that I (1) am already attracted to him

You could have stopped there...

Anonymous said...

Plumbing/fix 'it stuff is a dhv.

Retrenched said...

@ Nate, Sigyn

So basically, a can-do attitude and technical/mechanical expertise can certainly help a guy with women, but only if he's already got a bunch of other things going for him. It may take a girl from "I find him attractive' to "Take me you beast", but it won't take her from "I don't find him attractive" to "I find him attractive". So it's really more of a desirable trait than an attraction trigger.

E.g., no girl is gonna get hot and bothered over a skinny geek who helps fix her wireless router, regardless of how well he "takes charge" of the situation, or how confident or skilled he looks when doing it. But let him hit the gym, put on some muscle, and then come back and fix the router and... totally different story.

Sigyn said...

You could have stopped there...

Nope. Attraction is important, but it isn't absolutely everything. At least not to me. But I may be weird, so grain of salt may apply.

It may take a girl from "I find him attractive' to "Take me you beast", but it won't take her from "I don't find him attractive" to "I find him attractive". So it's really more of a desirable trait than an attraction trigger.

E.g., no girl is gonna get hot and bothered over a skinny geek who helps fix her wireless router, regardless of how well he "takes charge" of the situation, or how confident or skilled he looks when doing it. But let him hit the gym, put on some muscle, and then come back and fix the router and... totally different story.


One minor quibble, and that is that women who fetishize skinny guys (very narrow minority, but they exist) will like him without the gym work. But your typical girl? No chance.

Otherwise, exactly. A typical woman's natural attitude toward a man is dependent on whether she finds him attractive already. If he's attractive, he can do little wrong. If he's not, he can do little right.

Anonymous said...

Attraction is important, but it isn't absolutely everything.

And yet absent attraction, the other two qualifications you listed -- (2) respect him like crazy, and (3) realize he doesn't HAVE to do these things -- are meaningless in terms of sexual transaction.

In other words, attraction is -the- key condition.

Cail Corishev said...

A typical woman's natural attitude toward a man is dependent on whether she finds him attractive already.

Exactly. The problem is that when a man asks a female friend, "What can I do to make women like me?" she thinks of the man she's in love with (or some ideal fantasy man she's built up in her head) and thinks, "What would I want him to do for me that would make me like him even more?" Since she's already hot for him, she's not going to think of attraction triggers (assuming she's conscious of them anyway, which she probably isn't). She's going to think of comfort things, the kind of things that act as mild foreplay between people who are already having sex on a regular basis.

If a woman already wants to have sex with you, then yes, watching you build something may enhance that. That doesn't mean she gets wet every time she drives by a construction site.

dudemanhey said...

I am more with Nate on this issue.

My handiness as a farmer/contractor/entrepreneur certainly rachets up the interest i garner from the opposite sex. However, i think it is a case of my capabilites increasing an attraction that is already there. My handiness dosn't taken me from unappealing to appealing, it takes me from a great catch to an instant panty wetter.

Maybe this trait is more favorbale here in the former rural American South, but i have also had plenty of urbanite chicks tell me that i am "real" or a "man not a boy" compared to the pussies that couldn't hack it on my farm.

Sigyn said...

And yet absent attraction, the other two qualifications you listed -- (2) respect him like crazy, and (3) realize he doesn't HAVE to do these things -- are meaningless in terms of sexual transaction.

In the short term, and when you're talking about almost all women. I'll concede that.

As I have said repeatedly, the other two factors are important to MY CASE, which is what I was describing. Grain of salt, apply directly to forehead.

Anonymous said...

Yes, yes, dear, we know, it's all about you.

Nate said...

"Maybe this trait is more favorbale here in the former rural American South, but i have also had plenty of urbanite chicks tell me that i am "real" or a "man not a boy" compared to the pussies that couldn't hack it on my farm."

The most amusing tale I can relate to this goes like this...

A big time lawyer in NYC had a really hot daughter. He wanted her to go Ivy but she kept insisting on going to Vandy or Oglethorpe. Eventually as horrified as he was the father relented and the girl went to Oglethorpe. She brought a southern boy home to meet daddy and of course daddy simply could not understand.

Now understand this southern boy was also a lawyer's kid. Supreme Court Justice of Alabama to be exact... but I digress... anyway the new york lawyer daddy asked the girl what she saw in the boy.

She pointed to her fathers hands and said, "look at your fingers. When you relax your hand your fingers don't bend. You have so little muscle tone your fingers stay straight... like a baby's fingers. Now look at his hands. His fingers curl up when he relaxes. Because he's worked with them."

Now... I know the story is true because I know all the people involved excepting the girl's father.

I cannot verify that he was such a pussy he had baby fingers.

Desert Cat said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Desert Cat said...

"its like everything else. Fixing Shit = Capability. Capability leads to confidence leads to sexy."

This. Nate is totally correct.

The fact that I stand, not head and shoulders, but chest and waist above the average man in both breadth and depth of capability (at least in my wife's eyes) is tremendously sexy to her.

"Context is everything."

Yes. If Capable is who you are, if Capable oozes from your pores and permeates your every move, then it is a powerful thing.

Toby Temple said...

No. Vox didn't limit his post just to manipulation. You read something he didn't write.

No. You misread this part:

Sure. That explains how Joe the Plumber stole Irina Shayk from Cristiano Ronaldo and why you can't go to a hardware store without seeing more hot girls exposing their implants to men in tool belts than you see at a rock concert.

I don't think it means what you think it means.

Anonymous said...

I don't get it. I expect my boyfriend to help me put together Ikea furniture just like I help him with the laundry. I'm not so desperate for sex that I'll give it to a guy, even if I like him, unless he provides something else useful. Sex is something I can get anywhere, DIY help? Not so much. In the same way, I'm sure he could get laid no problem if he wanted to, but some girl from a bar isn't going to wash the bedding the next day. Exchanging things for sex is stupid, it's not a scarce enough commodity.

tyler said...

"That explains how Joe the Plumber stole Irina Shayk from Cristiano Ronaldo and why you can't go to a hardware store without seeing more hot girls exposing their implants to men in tool belts than you see at a rock concert."

Christiano ronaldo's career is certainly more of a DHV than a plumber's, and I think that was your point. EVEN SO, knowing how to fix cars, sinks, that sorta shit is a DHV too, just not as potent.

Desert Cat said...

"Exchanging things for sex is stupid, it's not a scarce enough commodity."

+1

Never, never, never allow even the faintest hint of a quid pro quo arrangement to form. It's the quickest path to delta/gamma slavery. Sex is for its own sake, for the both of you, period. Or it becomes prostitution. And you don't marry whores.

the league of baldheaded men said...

I think this one falls under the heading of "stuff VD posts with a smirk knowing it will wind up his audience", since most men seem to fall into the categories of 1. quietly ashamed that they're useless with their hands and have to hire someone to change their tires or 2. overly convinced that their ability to use a hammer or change a fuse makes them "a real man."

I once had a mixed-race girl that looked like Beyonce wave to me from across the street when I was at work, then come over to the job and give the foreman her phone number for me. When I talked to her later, she said "I saw you up there and felt like I was an Egyptian slave girl bringing water for a pyramid builder." However, I was setting a 5-ton header, not 'fixing the router" or screwing some Ikea together.

". But let him hit the gym, put on some muscle, and then come back and fix the router and... totally different story. "

Same story. Just muscular geek instead of skinny one.

Wearing a black suit makes you look like a limo driver or a maitre d. At best a deacon in a black church. Fucking them when they're asleep is a good one though, as is anything that smacks of taking instead of asking.

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