Tuesday, April 9, 2013

Alpha Mail: Hamsters and hair length

The fact that more than two years later, women with short hair are still stumbling upon and having conniptions about the post entitled Women: don't cut your damn hair is not only amusing, but underlines the truth of Sailer's Law of Female Journalism: "The most heartfelt articles by female journalists tend to be demands that social values be overturned in order that, Come the Revolution, the journalist herself will be considered hotter-looking."

Their vanity and self-delusion is such that not only does the mere observation that they are intentionally making themselves look less attractive to men upset them, but causes them to throw all of their long-haired sisters under the bus without hesitation.

Consider the following examples:
Women not doing everything they can to please your sense of what is aesthetically pleasing? Oh poo, what woman would be so foolish to do something for themselves? WHY CAN'T WOMEN JUST ALL LOOK THE WAY I FIND THEM ATTRACTIVE. No one gives a shit about your opinion you sexist shit.
Which, of course, is why she's upset by it.  Because she doesn't care. She is missing the salient point, which doesn't concern my sense of what is aesthetically pleasing, but rather, the fact that I happen to share a sense of what is aesthetically pleasing with the vast majority of men.
Haha you guys are so pathetic. I have alternated between long and short hair and while I get more attention with long hair, I tend to get more quality guys with the short. Why? Probably because I'm confident and show that I don't give a fuck what people think.

Of course, when you're dating breathing fuckdolls with nothing else to offer then I can see why it would be such a big deal for you! Oh wait I forgot you're a bunch of virgins :-\

Also, any women who think they need to have long hair to find a man is equally pathetic. Think for yourselves for once! 
This is female illogic at its acidic best. She presents the illusion of dialectic in appealing to her own experience, but then waxes purely rhetorical in her attack on men and women alike. And keep in mind, this vituperation is all in defense of the perceived attractiveness of her hair length!  When it comes to her perception of her own sexual value, there is no conflict too small to justify a woman going full wasp-defending-the-nest mode in an attempt to maintain her self-justifying delusions

This woman doesn't even bother with any pretense at reason:
To all the men that equate women's attractiveness by how long hair is - you are saddos. No doubt you're all sitting in the spare bedroom of your mother's house, typing away with your sad little lives on your computers, belittling women inbetween wanking away to internet porn because you can't actually get any real sex from a real woman. And why can't you get any real sex? You're sad misogyists. Women pity you. But not really (hehe). Have fun getting rickets boys. You deserve them.
In other words, she asserts that men who dare to so much as have a preference concerning what they happen to find attractive are saddos who hate women and can't get sex from them. Fascinating. But at least she is honest and admits that when women claim to "pity" someone, they really don't.

And here is another shining example of female logic:
Hey asshole, here's a reason why women cut their hair short; because you, and men like you, are not the end all arbiters of what is attractive on a women, nor are your opinions the sun that our world revolves around.
So, such women care so little about men's opinions that they are driven to do the precise opposite of what is indicated by those opinions.  Right.

This woman, on the other hand, admits to what most men instinctively grasp is true: a woman who chops her hair off is intentionally, for one reason or another, attempting to make herself look less attractive to the opposite sex:
Personally, I have seriously considered cutting my hair off(as in really short-pixie cut) precisely because, like some before me have said, it lowers or even completely wipes away "attractiveness". One thing is for sure: it is practically IMPOSSIBLE to objectify a short-haired woman(unless she has a freakishly sexy, hour-glass figure,and shows it off, like Marilyn Monroe did) . Short hair basically makes your face, your features stand out and forces people to look you in the eyes, treat you as a person. Plus, from a strictly aesthetic point of view, you can still look gorgeous, like Halle Berry or Charlize Theron have proven, times and again.
It is true that Halle Berry and Charlize Theron are attractive with short hair. But what so many women fail to realize is that they are attractive IN SPITE of their short hair, and that they are even more attractive with long hair.  And also, they are failing to take into account that very, very few women are as attractive as these two women who are very wealthy due to their exceptional genetic gifts.

However, without question the most amusing response has been from women who are so willfully perverse and self-defeating, and care so little about my opinion, that no less than four of them declared they were cutting off their hair in response to my post. To which news I can only respond: do you know what men REALLY find unattractive? Shaving your head and having a giant spider tattooed on the top of your naked scalp! And don't you dare send me the pictures afterwards either!

128 comments:

Anonymous said...

Roissy Maxim #77: Women will screech louder the closer your words get to damaging or exposing vulnerabilities in their sexual market value.

And you are getting a fantastic ROI on these posts, Vox. lol

David said...

To all these indignant women, you do realize that you are writing Vox's post for him and that you are making his job even easier?

And you also realize it will only convince more men he is right, and each man so convinced who applies what he teaches is going to be one more guy that will be able to charm you...and his sexual market value may not be quite as high as yours.

The horror...

Shimshon said...

"I have alternated between long and short hair and while I get more attention with long hair, I tend to get more quality guys with the short."

Yet another woman validates the point while at the same time trying to bash it.

Anonymous said...

And you also realize it will only convince more men he is right

What do you mean? The screeching of those harpies makes them sound plenty attractive. In fact, were they to post mug shots of their pixie cuts, I am confident that men from around world would write them love letters and they could take their pick.

GAHCindy said...

"I have alternated between long and short hair and while I get more attention with long hair, I tend to get more quality guys with the short"

I wonder what she means by quality? Low sex drive so he doesn't bother her much?

TJIC said...

> Personally, I have seriously considered cutting my hair off(as in really short-pixie cut) precisely because, like some before me have said, it lowers or even completely wipes away "attractiveness".

Hilarious that a massive screaming rant ends with the woman accidentally saying "oh, and also, that thesis that I've been attacking for 1,000 words ... is right".

Woman logic.

SarahsDaughter said...

To which news I can only respond: do you know what men REALLY find unattractive? Shaving your head and having a giant spider tattooed on the top of your naked scalp! And don't you dare send me the pictures afterwards either!

Oh dear...why you gotta go there?

A McHamster challenge. +1 point if they wear a gamma rabbit shirt in the picture. +10 if their BMI is >40.

Big Bill said...

Paraphrasing Miss Pixie: "I chop my hair off so I won't attract men since the male gaze is evil."

This is essentially the hijabi feminist "argument". Devout feminist Muslims cover their hair for reasons of equality. They want to keep relations between men and women untainted by desire (as Allah commands) and do their bit by covering their hair.

The fundamentalist Jews go a bit further. They insist that their women shave their heads to be unattractive, and then wear a wig at all times.

Miss Pixie is a moderate. She chooses the middle. She won't shave her hair and cover it (Jews), or keep it long and cover it (Muslims), instead, she crops it short and leaves it uncovered, and thereby attenuates but not eliminate male desire.

Shimshon said...

Big Bill, where on earth did you get your misinformation about "fundamentalist Jews?" Observant Jewish women do cover their hair. They might wear a wig (Ashkenazim do, Sephardim basically don't), or a suitably sized scarf, or a "snude" (basically a head-sized sock). Almost no women shave their head. Some do, but it's a very small sect.

I don't know anything about Islam, but I have my doubts that Muslim women cover their hair for reasons of equality. It's to keep female hypergamy in check.

Cail Corishev said...

This is my favorite:

I have alternated between long and short hair and while I get more attention with long hair, I tend to get more quality guys with the short.

If they're so quality, why hasn't she kept one yet? How many "quality guys" is she going to go through?

Anonymous said...

Memo to women:

1. For the eleventy millionth time: Confidence in a woman means exactly jack-squat NOTHING to her physical and sexual attractiveness.

2. As a matter of fact, men are the sole arbiters of what is physically and sexually attractive in women.

3. Women do not get to decide what is physically and sexually attractive about them.

4. Women do not get to decide FOR MEN what men should find physically and sexually attractive.

deti

asdf said...

What the girl means by more "quality guys" is more beta orbiters. Men who treat her the "quality" way she wishes an alpha would treat her. When they see short hair they unconsciously understand the woman is less attractive (more in their league) and more leftist (sluttier). If they have a good body this may be a chance for the beta male to swoop in and get a better body then he normally could because of the awful hair.

szook said...

Robert Munsch said it best......check out "Stephanie's Ponytail"

DaveD said...

Yes, short hair on a woman is soooo sexy that most strippers, porn stars, actresses, pharmaceutical reps, women who rely on sex appeal to earn their living, have pixie cuts.

Oh, wait.....

DD

Stingray said...

deti,

I have to disagree with your point number 1. A woman that has confidence in how she looks will be more attractive to men opposed to a woman who is pretty but won't hold herself to that same confidence. I realize you were talking about something different. But it is an important distinction.

Michael Maier said...

I love you, SarahsDaughter.

I just re-read most of that thread and I must say my favorite is the bitch that cut hers off to punish her husband.

I'm sure THAT's a happy marriage.

(and for visiting dykes, I was posting as IndyGuy77 back then)

Michael Maier said...

Stingray, you're thinking like a woman again.

Stingray said...

Michael,

Confidence in one's appearance means standing up straight, getting a good haircut that frames one's face nicely and beautifully, dressing to one's strengths, staying fit and having pride in one's body, showing off one's beauty in a confident manner. Call it pride in one's appearance, if you will. Not having confidence in one's looks means being frumpy. This is very different than the confidence deti is talking about. He is referring to the confidence that women try to copy from masculinity and in that he is absolutely correct. But there is a distinction.

To the men reading here, yes I am being a woman. Agreed. But the women reading deti's comment could read it either way and many are likely to read it in the manner I described and disagree because they do not see the distinction.

Michael Maier said...

OK, re-read and I'll agree with your clarification.

Hell, for a while I was tempted at work to slap this one girl's ass and yell at her to stand up straight.

But you're not helping my sleep-deprived self any when you disagree and then say you're disagreeing with what he didn't write. ;)

Cail Corishev said...

I have to disagree with your point number 1. A woman that has confidence in how she looks will be more attractive to men opposed to a woman who is pretty but won't hold herself to that same confidence.

I was about to say that too, but I'm not so sure. I feel like I'm attracted to confidence in a woman, but am I really? I've known some very confident ugly or fat women, and I wasn't attracted to them. I've also known some hot women who thought themselves so worthless that they intentionally dated losers to punish themselves, and I was still attracted to them.

So I'm forced to conclude that confidence is much like intelligence: if I'm attracted to a woman, she'll seem confident and intelligent to me. Not the other way around.

You're probably right that being confident will help an attractive woman show off her attractiveness, but it's still not the confidence itself that's attractive. If she's confident enough to wear a bikini, for instance, it's the body inside the bikini I'm attracted to, not the fact that she wore it. A good distinction to make, if people can.

Daniel said...

Come on ladies. Simply wikipedia "pixie cut" and recalibrate your sense of aesthetics. Yikes.

Cail Corishev said...

What the girl means by more "quality guys" is more beta orbiters. Men who treat her the "quality" way she wishes an alpha would treat her.

I think you nailed it. When she's wearing her "power hair," the men who approach are the kind who make her feel more in control of the relationship, because they have a lower SMV and are more obsequious to her. She thinks that's the way she wants to be treated by the alphas who approach when she has long hair. She doesn't really, of course, but she has to think so, or face what she really wants.

Cail Corishev said...

Come on ladies. Simply wikipedia "pixie cut" and recalibrate your sense of aesthetics. Yikes.

Ha! Some editor was just plain mean, picking that image.

Daniel said...

Must be gang initiation. That girl crazy. She ain' 'fraid to cut a pixie.

Peter Garstig said...

Confidence in a woman has other artifacts than confidence in a man.

Try to tell that to a feminist. They really don't know anything about men and women.

VD said...

A woman that has confidence in how she looks will be more attractive to men opposed to a woman who is pretty but won't hold herself to that same confidence.

No, this is incorrect. A woman who has confidence in how she looks is more attractive than the same woman who lacks that confidence.

That does not make her more attractive as a prettier woman or a woman with a better body who lacks confidence in it. After all, as the great English philosophers have stated: "You don't know you're beautiful... that's what makes you beautiful."

Seriously, though, confidence probably gives you a point in men's eyes. Whereas long stripper hair and false eyelashes and smokey eyes can cumulatively provide three.

It helps, it's good, but it really doesn't do much for a lumpy body or a potato-plain face.

Stingray said...

Cail,

Understood. But deti claimed that confidence means nothing to her attractiveness (again, I realize that he was speaking of male confidence). My point is that female confidence does mean something. Those women who were fat, were they at least more attractive because they were confident? Those attractive women who were not confident, would they have been more attractive with this confidence? Women who are on the cusp of attractiveness, could they push themselves into the realm of attractiveness by displaying this confidence vs. not displaying it?

Stingray said...

VD,

Agreed. That is what I meant as I tried to demonstrate to Cail.

Mina said...

I had actually just found "the manosphere" right at the time I cut about two feet of hair from my head. I have always had really, really long hair - not for any particular reason than I am pretty lazy about "going to town" and as a farm girl it was just easier to braid it and stuff up inside my helmet for riding.

Initially my husband really seemed to like it and complimented me and treated me like a little vixen so I was completely convinced he loved the short hair (probably more shoulder length) vs the long hair. I spent some amount of effort trying to convince the manosphere they were wrong about short hair because "look at the great results I had!" (haha, yes I know better now, no need to point out how ludicrous this is - I get it I really do)

Fast forward a few months when I decided on my own that it was "too short - need to grow it out a bit", started coloring it (mostly to get the gray out but I had always wanted to be red so I did that, too) and while I was at the salon I went along with the beautician's idea to tame the shrubbery above my eyeballs with a wax as well.

That's when I realized it wasn't the ~short hair~ my husband liked and was enjoying so much, it was the fact that I was going to a lot of effort to pretty myself up and look good for him and actually commit to the maintenance.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Sometimes I really need to wait and let things percolate before deciding I have reached my conclusion when I conduct these little experiments.

Stingray said...

Michael,

Heh, sorry. I've got a caffeine buzz going on and my thoughts are very flighty.

Peter Garstig said...

A woman's confidence level is inversely proportional to the likelihood that her response starts with 'Everyone else...' when disagreeing with her.

Michael Maier said...

Mina obviously hates herself and all womankind. /s

Josh said...

Whereas long stripper hair and false eyelashes and smokey eyes can cumulatively provide three.

As demonstrated by the "porn stars without makeup" galleries.

Natalie said...

@Stingray

I think for "confidence" you could almost say "animation." I'm just coming out of the first semester exhaustion/queasy/hormone fog that pretty well sapped me for ten or so weeks, and when I caught a glimpse of myself in the mirror this weekend while at a bridal shower I really almost stopped and stared. Yes, I sound like a vain, stuck-up wanna be 10, but for the first time in weeks (months?) I looked happy, rested, and (in my humble female opinion) rather pretty. I was smiling and had a little spark in my eye that had been missing for a while. I think there's a certain zest for life that can translate favorably into a woman's looks and enliven even rather ordinary features.

JCclimber said...

Mina,
it's because the drastic hair change made it seem like he was having a different woman come on to him.

Men like variety. The fact that the "new woman" was actually his wife already was a bonus, because it was safe and sanctioned for him to "hit dat a$$" and so on.

You should borrow a wig with a different hair color sometime and model it for him, and see the reaction (provided the new wig looks okay on you and you're wearing makeup).

JCclimber said...

It's also so very revealing how the feminist tries to insult a man.
They decry the double standard of how "Slut!" is an insult.

Yet, the biggest insult they hurl at men is that they are a virgin.
Their hamsters are so mighty that I believe it is impossible for them to recognize the irony of their own words.

Their greatest insult is that you are a virgin living in your mother's basement. And yet, how many would be insulted in turn if someone mistakenly assumed that the woman in question was still a virgin safely (sexually speaking) living with her parents? That's right, none of them.

Mina said...

JCclimber said...

good ideas! I have spent the last year really trying to figure out what chimes his clock. it's been fun, that's for sure.

Anonymous said...

What's the over/under on photos of shorn heads with spider tats? I'm setting 10 1/2 as the opening line.

And for Mina - great realization...

Emma said...

I can't believe this is still going on! There are a lot of things that I have, that most men probably don't like (we all have flaws), but it doesn't hurt me/piss me off when someone says "men hate tattoos on women" or "BMI of 22 is probably the limit for peak hotness". Many critics of that article said something about freedom, how women don't modify their looks just for men, and don't exist just to please men. Sure! But why defend your freedom, if no one even disagreed with it? You can do whatever you want with yourself, but you have to know the consequences and not bitch about them. I know gaining some fat is gonna make me less attractive to most men, but I like myself better that way, and so does my guy (he told me he likes slightly chubby women better, even when I was only 110 lbs), so I'm gonna do what's best for me and my guy. There is no reason (and I have no desire) to be angry at men who won't be attracted to that.

Anonymous said...

Vox,

What constitutes long hair? My hair used to be waist length but I cut it to a few inches past my shoulders recently when I had a baby. Would that still be considered long or does it have to be longer to be considered attractive?

Stride Rite said...

Whilst sitting on the couch with my hottie girlfriend the other night, she said she wanted to trim her raven hair. Just a little bit. That long hair of hers is so damn sexy, I sometimes feel my eyes getting drowsy just looking at it.

I withdrew my arms from around her and leaned back. Then I looked at her sideways and sighed. Didn't say a word for about 30 seconds. She grew visibly uncomfortable.

And laughed nervously.

"What's wrong?" she said.

"That's cool," I said. "Guess that means you're ok with me ripping farts in public now."

She hasn't brought up the hair again.




Stickwick said...

Every time this subject comes up, I'm nowhere nearer to understanding why women react the way they do. Why do they purposely make themselves unattractive with short hair and then complain that men find it unattractive? I can undertand, in a perverse way, why intrinsically ugly women would seek to change the norms of attractiveness to their advantage -- or minimally ruin the advantage attractive women have. But hair? Unlike facial prettiness or height or basic body shape, the vast majority of women have the power to have attractive hair per any norms. Why not just grow it out and enjoy looking attractive?

Tom said...

My wife and I refer to it as chicken hair, because the moms who hack it off to about 3 inches on top look like chickens.

She occasionally threatens me that she will go all chicken hair if I don't something or another.

It is an effective threat.

My 10 year old daughter cried when she had to have 2-3 inches trimmed off the end of her hair the other day. Boy, my wife ain't doin' half bad raisin' them there varmits.

Well, except for when my 3 year old boy comes running across the public play ground shouting, "Look at my purse, daddy!" She claimed she didn't know how he got out of the house with it, but wasn't it cute. I didn't handle her response with the Christian charity I should have.

sunshinemary said...

Women do not get to decide FOR MEN what men should find physically and sexually attractive.

This kind of goes back to the "Is reality misogynistic" idea, too. Women think they can change the unchangeable. It's like all the complaining on older single lady blogs about why men their age won't date them. It's a real mystery to them and smacks of sexism in their minds, but the answer just is what it is - men find youth attractive. Railing against it simply will never change that unchangeable fact.

Same with hair length, or any of the secondary sexual characteristics. All the feminism in the world will never change what men and women find sexually attractive in one another.

It's generally best to accept reality and find a way to work within it. One tends to get much farther that way.

Stickwick said...

Also, over at the old thread, some college chick is complaining that long hair takes too much time. That is complete, unmitigated B.S. I have very long hair, and it takes the same amount or even less time to deal with than a short layered hairdo. Most of the time, it's just wash and go. When I want to make it really sexy, it only takes 15 minutes with a straightening iron. I dunno if women really believe the B.S. that it takes a lot of time to manage long hair or if they knowingly perpetuate this lie to deflect criticism.

tz said...

Slightly OT, but entertaining.

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=4893

Let’s be explicit about the underlying assumptions here and their consequences. It used to be believed (and still is over much of the planet) that a woman in her fertile period left alone with any remotely presentable man not a close relative would probably (as my commenter put it) be banging him like a barn door in five minutes. Thus, as one conseqence, the extremely high value traditionally placed on physical evidence of virginity at time of marriage.

It starts out slow before getting to this point, but then gets better or worse depending on perspective.

Daniel said...

Every time this subject comes up, I'm nowhere nearer to understanding why women react the way they do. Why do they purposely make themselves unattractive with short hair and then complain that men find it unattractive?

Because it is empowering to the long-haired woman ("friend") who encourages her competitor to cripple herself. Then, the newly velcro-headed must maintain the illusion of choice by defending the self-butchery. She directs her rage at the deception against the innocent target: little boy who points out the emperor has no clothes. Directing it in the appropriate place: either against the liar who convinced her the haircut would be so "cute" or herself for being so easily led, would be to admit powerlessness.

It is fairly simple social mathematics, but yeah, remarkably nonsensical in execution.

Imagine a more subtle Scalzi, and you'll begin to grasp it.

sunshinemary said...

Stickwick: Why not just grow it out and enjoy looking attractive?

I think because it's more work, especially as a woman ages. You have to spend a lot of time and money on coloring, straightening/curling/blow drying, conditioning, getting the ends trimmed off, etc. Some ladies want to be lazy, which is their prerogative of course, just as it is men's prerogative to then find them unappealing.

Anonymous asked: What constitutes long hair?

Most men I've asked this question to say at minimum to the shoulders, preferably longer. I kept mine waist-length in my 20s, but now in my forties, I keep it just past my shoulders. But you should ask your own man to show you how long he prefers it.

Anonymous said...

It is interesting that, when pressed, she appeals to an insult that is the male equivalent of short hair - staying at home with parents. If her goal is to prove she is not as superficial as men she instead just proved that she is by judging external circumstances

sunshinemary said...

@ Stickwick
On the amount of time to care for long hair - it's easy when you are young. When you get older, it takes more time. I never used to have to straighten my hair when I was in my 20s; it didn't get an annoying waviness to it until I got older. So irritating.

Cail Corishev said...

Those women who were fat, were they at least more attractive because they were confident? Those attractive women who were not confident, would they have been more attractive with this confidence? Women who are on the cusp of attractiveness, could they push themselves into the realm of attractiveness by displaying this confidence vs. not displaying it?

No, maybe, and I doubt it.

To expand a little: at least to me, attractiveness is pretty much binary. As guys have put it before, in a way, there's really no scale; there's only Yes and No. So I'm not sure there's any such thing as being "on the cusp" of attractive.

However, there is a scale from "attractive enough" to "close your mouth before she sees you drooling, you idiot." That's why I said "maybe" to your second question: since those women were attractive, I suppose it's possible that more confidence could have made them smile more, look me in the eye more, and be a bit more attractive. But it wouldn't make much difference. I'd liken it to an overweight man losing 10-20 pounds. Yeah, he's now more attractive, but it would be hard to measure, and it's not like a bunch of women who passed on him before will suddenly find themselves drawn to him.

On the first question, it really is as simple as no. I've never seen a woman and found her unattractive, then gotten to know her and found her attractive because of her confidence or personality. Never. I've tried, too. I might come to like her more than I expected and want to be friends, but not attracted. I kinda wish it weren't that way, but it is.

Desert Cat said...

My opinion, it's a sliding scale. Just to your shoulders is probably the short end of attractive. Above the shoulders and bobbed under, I have derisively referred to as "penis-head". Shorter than that just gets worse.

My wife has been growing her hair out for the past couple years and is almost to mid-back length now. Ironically, she has found that longer hair is actually lower maintenance than short hair. It can be quickly wrapped up and clipped out of the way, and for work or going out, she just brushes it out, curls the ends and the bangs and she's done.

She is rather consciously rebelling against the standard notion that, after a certain age, women should wear a "sensible" haircut (penis-head to pixie range).

I try not to gush, because I know that would be too beta, but darn it's hard sometimes...

sunshinemary said...

The other thing women need to watch out for carefully is the evil female hair stylist.

NO DO LET A WOMAN WITH SHORT HAIR CUT YOUR HAIR, ladies. I had a regular stylist many years ago who had short hair, and she got very offended when she told that I should cut my hair short and I told her that men (my husband in particular) don't like short hair on women. She told me that lots of men find short hair attractive on women.

She moved out of state and I lost track of her until last year, when she sent me a friend request on facebook. She still has short hair and is miserably unmarried at 39. I'm glad I didn't listen to her bad, naughty hair advice.

Josh said...

It's a real mystery to them and smacks of sexism in their minds, but the answer just is what it is - men find youth attractive. Railing against it simply will never change that unchangeable fact.

This also applies to men and solipsism. Accept that women are solipsistic, emotional, and irrational. That's the way they were made. Once you understand that, women are much more pleasant to be around.

Stickwick said...

I think because it's more work, especially as a woman ages. You have to spend a lot of time and money on coloring, straightening/curling/blow drying, conditioning, getting the ends trimmed off, etc.

What does age have to do with it? In any case, this is somewhat moot, as it was a college-age woman complaining about the time it takes to do longer hair. I'm calling B.S., regardless of age. My mom had shortish hair in her 50s and spent way more time on it than I spend on my nearly waist-length hair. Not seeing the advantage.

Stickwick said...

Because it is empowering to the long-haired woman ("friend") who encourages her competitor to cripple herself.

That would make a modicum of sense, but from what I can tell, it's mostly short-haired women encouraging their friends to be likewise velcro-headed. A good friend of mine has grown out her straw-blonde locks past shoulder length and it looks great. She mused on FB that she was thinking of cutting it, since her newborn's sticky hands were getting caught in it. Most of her friends -- all of them with short hair -- chanted "chop it off, chop it off." Okay, so they want her to be as unattractive as they are. What I don't get, is why the velcro-heads don't gain the advantage by growing out their hair instead of insisting that long-haired women likewise uglify themselves? Something's still missing from this equation.

Anonymous said...

"Those women who were fat, were they at least more attractive because they were confident?"

no.

"Those attractive women who were not confident, would they have been more attractive with this confidence?"

probably not. all too often, women mistake being full of themselves for confidence. just be normal. or even better, be humble.

"Women who are on the cusp of attractiveness, could they push themselves into the realm of attractiveness by displaying this confidence vs. not displaying it?"

probably not. same reason.

Stingray said...

Stickwick,

It's a form of control.

judgybitch.com said...

Learned this the hard way.

Cut my hair off two years ago. My husband tried to act thrilled but he was HORRIFIED, even though I asked him before I did it.

Never again. My hair is finally getting long again and it will stay that way until the day I die.



Mike M. said...

I think a woman can get away with just above the shoulders - and I mean JUST above - if she has a long neck.

But waist length is still a sure-fire trump card. Versatile, too.

Daniel said...

That would make a modicum of sense, but from what I can tell, it's mostly short-haired women encouraging their friends to be likewise velcro-headed.

Ah-ha! Similar situation, with one difference. The velcro-head encourager is a velcro-head for a reason: to have an excuse for her relationship ceiling. ["Hmm. Maybe if I grew my hair out, I could attract a better man."]

Perhaps it is akin to keeping an ace in the hole, while simultaneously providing a distraction from the other unattractive qualities that are harder to change. When even wikipedia uses a frump instead of little goldie hawn for its dictionary definition of "pixie cut", it leads me to believe that the women who succumb to velcro-head as lifestyle choice are ones who need a physical badge that distracts them and others from identifying their other physical and social drawbacks.

For example, I know a disproportionate number of porcine or harsh women who opt for the 'cro fro. It is almost as if they are saying: I can't do any better, and wouldn't it look so cute on you? Please don't ask me to improve myself.

Would it be better for them if they grew their hair out? Yep. But it would mean admitting something. Lots of women don't like to do that.

Of course, I never rule out simple delusion. After all, women who grow their hair out long tend to spend less at the salon over time. The marketing machine needs you to feel "empowered" looking like you've survived cancer.

Stingray said...

But it wouldn't make much difference.

Ok. I can agree with that. What about in terms other than attractiveness? Does it make you want to spend more time with a woman who is fun and confident (in a feminine manner?)

women mistake being full of themselves for confidence.

Absolutely, and I think this is what deti was referring to.

Anonymous said...

Most men don't give a shit about confidence in women, even if they tell you they do. It's kind of like if you have an awesome job. If you're hot, then I guess it might be considered a small bonus (or sometimes not). But if you're ugly/fat, it in no way adds to your hotness.

Hot women tend to be more confident, so it's a bit deceptive. Guys may think they're attracted to confidence when they're really just attracted to a hot girl, who happens to be confident as well.

But you know what's even more attractive? A beautiful woman who is humble.

Stingray said...

velcro-head

'cro fro

Like you've survived cancer

Daniel, you certainly have a way with words. ;)

tz said...

Hair club for hamsters?

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/08/ferrets-on-steroids-sold-as-dogs-in-argentina/

Gamma Hare anyone?

That said, I know Vox doesn't think much of Goodkind, but he gets the "female hair length" = "social status" exactly right. Queens and Mord Sith have long hair.

I volunteer to braid it if it is waist length or longer, so it won't get tangled or matted when you ride with me on my Harley.

Somethings which are high-maintenance are properly shareable.

Loki of Asgard said...

But if a woman cuts off her hair, by what does she propose her husband seize her and drag her away?

tz said...

I think it is biological. Eat protein. Men build muscle. Women grow hair.

tz said...

@Loki

Hit her with the (hair?) club and leave here to the next herd of gammas.

tz said...

@STingray: Ok. I can agree with that. What about in terms other than attractiveness? Does it make you want to spend more time with a woman who is fun and confident (in a feminine manner?)

Attractiveness is still what you are referring to - do you really wish to spend time with someone who is unattractive in any way?

Fun? The definitions for men and women are likely irreconcilably different.

Confident (femanner)? Being confident with a bunch of fellow (polite vocabulary override in effect!) women is different than being so with men. Confident but submissive is the ideal but requires near perfect execution. Usually they come across as weak, or worse, (PVOiE off) bitchy.

It is a crewel reality that webs are woven by both spiders and spinsters.

Loki of Asgard said...

Hit her with the (hair?) club and leave here to the next herd of gammas.

Indeed.

Stickwick said...

Stingray: Women? Controlling? We are repeatedly assured that control is the domain of men.

Would it be better for them if they grew their hair out? Yep. But it would mean admitting something. Lots of women don't like to do that.

Okay, this starts to make some sense.

I volunteer to braid it if it is waist length or longer, so it won't get tangled or matted when you ride with me on my Harley.

Better yet, get one of these things. I bought one at a ren faire recently, and the dude who wound up my hair with it said it's great for motorcycle-riding.

Cail Corishev said...

Does it make you want to spend more time with a woman who is fun and confident (in a feminine manner?)

If her confidence makes her more fun and more feminine, then yes. But confidence could just as easily make her arrogant and cold. Lots of extremely unpleasant women today have loads of confidence.

I guess that's the point: confidence in a woman isn't attractive in itself. If being confident makes her more fun, it's the fun that's attractive. If it makes her dress sexily, it's the cleavage that's attractive. But if she's showing the same cleavage because her dress tore earlier in the day and she's actually ashamed and hoping no one notices, she's still just as attractive.

The difference with men is that confidence in men is attractive to women all by itself. It might lead one man to being a cocky jerk while another is a quiet stoic, but both men will be attractive to women who sense their confidence.

Emma said...

Whoever says feminine confidence doesn't add to a woman's attractiveness just never seen a woman have it. I have seen it, but it's very rare. And powerful. Many beauties don't know how to use their beauty to their full potential. They have a tiny "energy field" if you can call it that. Many women just don't have grace and manly traits don't help. Even if they don't consciously have manly traits, they learned them early and have to become aware of them to fix them.

Anonymous said...

My hair is naturally curly and tangles and mats something fierce if it gets past my shoulders.

Mina said...

I have never in my life considered that my hair deserved so much consideration. Who knew? I am even doubly glad now that I got to donate three times to the Locks of Love so that young girls with cancer can also have long hair :-)

Women with confidence a problem? What do you all consider cocky women with arrogant, superiority complex confidence?

Yeah. Ok I figured. I better leave now.

Stingray said...

Anonymous,

Nope. Can't really use that as an excuse. Learn how to really take care of it. I have naturally curly hair, too. It's currently down past the middle of my back wet and bounces to past my shoulders dry. When I learned how to care for it, those tangles were easily gotten rid of. :)

Stingray said...

Confident (femanner)? Being confident with a bunch of fellow (polite vocabulary override in effect!) women is different than being so with men. Confident but submissive is the ideal but requires near perfect execution.

THIS. This is what I am vainly trying to get at. Thank you.

Cail, I get what you are saying and I agree to a point. But a woman who has the confidence to ooze femininity will get more attraction points for the same dressed woman who does not. Maybe it is a different word than attractive that I am looking for, I don't know. But these two women will be reacted to differently. I am just very clearly struggling to describe it.

NateM said...

Yea my favorite from the other thread was the lady saying she's " not mad but sad" from her brother molesting her and a stranger raping her and that's why she keeps it short. Maybe she should've cut it short earlier, then she wouldn't have been attractive to them then either.

The Scolds Bridle said...

There is no social tool more powerful against a woman that a man's unwavering judgment of her.

They care. Methinks the lady doth screech too much.

The average feminist displays weaponized levels of butthurtness.

It would take the concentrated rage of a dozen gammas to equal it. Mostly because unlike the male gamma, the angry feminist is just plain aggressive, rather than passive aggressive. Since they hold the pu*** pass, and need not fear outright conflict, they can lance the painful boils that infect their egos right out in public view.

The gamma male is always afraid of conflict, so he will mask the rage behind an easily-decoded veneer of snark.

There are few higher callings in a man's life than to put a woman in her place, then laugh as she comes unglued.

Stingray said...

Women? Controlling?

Shocking isn't it?

Anonymous said...

Sting:

"Ok. I can agree with that. What about in terms other than attractiveness? Does it make you want to spend more time with a woman who is fun and confident (in a feminine manner?)"

anonymous: "women mistake being full of themselves for confidence."

Sting: "Absolutely, and I think this is what deti was referring to."

Yes, pretty much. My comment, and I think the OP, have to do with physical and sexual attractiveness. I.e., what is visually, aesthetically pleasing or alluring. I don't think Vox was addressing, and I did not intend to address, other facets of attraction. All I wanted to talk about was what men think looks good to the eye.

Re: Confidence. From my perspective, a woman's confidence doesn't increase her SMV or physical/sexual attractiveness. It will help her socially, and keep her from making social faux pas; but it doesn't really help her attract men.

Men and women have differing ideas of what constitutes "confidence". I think it's something like this:

Men's idea of female confidence: She's easygoing, comfortable in her own skin and with herself; pleasant to be around, content with the world and her place in it, doesn't complain much about life, her body, herself, or her situation.

Women's conception of that kind of female confidence: Overly people-pleasing, too deferential, doormat, obsequious, supplicating, weak.

Women's idea of what female confidence should be: Insists on applying job/work skills to her personal and romantic relationships. Competent and competitive. Willing to match wits with any man. Fully able and willing to lead. Seeks egalitarian relationship with husband/BF/significant other. Insists on equal treatment in everything. Never concedes anything; argues every point, must prove herself correct. Fully convinced of the correctness of every stance and position she takes.

Men's perception of that confidence: Bitchiness, surliness, obstinance, unpleasant to be around, control freak, possibly a bunny boiler, too much work, not worth the hassle.

deti

Loki of Asgard said...

I am even doubly glad now that I got to donate three times to the Locks of Love so that young girls with cancer can also have long hair :-)

Women with confidence a problem? What do you all consider cocky women with arrogant, superiority complex confidence?


Only those who boast of their charitable giving as though it justified doing something imprudent.

Passinthrough said...

So how many pictures of female shaven heads with spider tatoo have you accumulated since this post?

Jill said...

I really don't want to get sucked into this blog as I have with your other blog. I don't really care about the whole alpha-game-whatever-whatever. However, I find your approach to this subject to be peculiar. Why would you approach this particular battle by highlighting female illogic when women are, on a biological level, simply attempting to control male reaction to them? Looking at the reverse perspective, there's nothing logical about male attraction to female long hair. It's a part of the enigmatic forces of masculinity and femininity. Long hair can't even be attached to female hormones like breasts can; a man can grow his hair long, but he can't grow breasts w/o hormone therapy. Females and long hair and male attraction=mystery that is beautiful and shouldn't be torn apart by logic. If a woman insists on wearing her hair the way she chooses, rather than the way her mate chooses, she's communicating something to him. She's attempting to control the way he views her. She's making a power play. On the other hand, if she's past thirty, she might simply be trying to make herself look younger.

Mina said...

Loki of Asgard said...

:-) I didn't know what I didn't know.

That's my only justification.

Daniel said...

What battle? It was an observation and a suggestion. If you want to remain as attractive to men, don't cut your hair.

Simple, uncontroversial advice from a man who might have decent counsel for women who have accepted the ridiculous (but deeply-held) suggestion that velcro-head makes them look svelte and 12, not an asexual in a concentration camp.

You'll note that this blog has a much different intent than the other, by the way. It is easy to read the one and come here expecting a debate. It is less for amusement and more for observation.

VD said...

Why would you approach this particular battle by highlighting female illogic when women are, on a biological level, simply attempting to control male reaction to them?

Because it is devastating rhetoric. Not being a Mommy's boy, I naturally abhor and resist all female attempts to control me.

She's making a power play.

Precisely. I want men to understand that and I hope women realize that it is a negative action.

More importantly, it is simply the truth, and I am committed to simply following the truth wherever it happens to go. There is even an article in the Guardian today, entitled "Short Hair Isn't Sexy".

Alexander said...

Jill,

Long hair might not in and of itself be a sex-based trait, but on a women it is a visible sign of health, youth, and femininity. It's entirely rational.

Mina said...

I have to admit the reason I initially cut my hair was it was getting a little ridiculous. when it gets past your behind and it's all different lengths and split ends and really gray at the temples and you only wear it in a braid.

in a word: ick.

I really love my new style vs the old really super long no-style hair. the gray being gone is great, too.

so I would submit: there can be too much of a good thing with hair if it gets out of control. that too can be unattractive. Mine was bad because I was being lazy and not taking care of it. that's probably just as bad as cutting it super shot into a pixie IMO

Res Ipsa said...


"What constitutes long hair?"

I think a min standard should be as far down your back as your bra strap. Waist long is even better.

SarahsDaughter said...

The English philosophers' song has been stuck in my head all day TVM "You don't know oh oh..."

It's like that one song, how does it go?
"Baby bunny hop hop a bipity boo..."

Jill said...

Alexander--what you're saying isn't rational. I don't deny that long hair is feminine. But there's nothing particularly rational about it being a feminine trait (health and youth, yes, those at the very least are biological imperatives in finding a mate, but they apply to men and women alike). Most men and most women are irrational creatures. And they're attracted to each other for more than biological reason. Don't try to remove the intangibility with logic.

And to VD, that's fantastic that you aren't a mama's boy. I congratulate you. But in your own work of fiction you seem to give credence to the naturalness of the way women control men in under the surface ways. It's really all women have in their arsenal. In the context of hair, I suspect a woman could just as easily use long hair as a manipulative tactic (see: hair flipping).

Mina said...

SarahsDaughter said...

sigh.

There is a place between "much too long / unkempt" (not pretty) and "much too short / pixie" (not pretty) yes?

The point being: that is probably where attractive hair length/style is found.

Certainly not 2.5 feet of hair / farm girl / split ends / in a braid every day. There cannot be any person anywhere who finds that any more attractive than a pixie.

Daniel said...

Stop fishing, Mina. The 3-foot farm braid is infinitely more attractive than a pixie.

I'm sure it was lovely. The later cleaning, dying and styling, I'm sure was good for it too.

But you never made your head look like a cockleburr, even if it had a few of them in its tresses.

Markku said...

And to VD, that's fantastic that you aren't a mama's boy. I congratulate you. But in your own work of fiction you seem to give credence to the naturalness of the way women control men in under the surface ways. It's really all women have in their arsenal. In the context of hair, I suspect a woman could just as easily use long hair as a manipulative tactic (see: hair flipping)

Falling victim to feminine wiles feels right, and according to nature. Giving in to female intimidation feels perverse and disgusting.

Cail Corishev said...

But a woman who has the confidence to ooze femininity will get more attraction points for the same dressed woman who does not.

I want to say that I agree with you, because I'm imagining a woman who's attractive enough to be in the "yes" column, but she's not confident about her looks so she kinda hunches over to hide her chest and doesn't look guys in the eye very much, that kind of thing. One day her fairy godmother bestows upon her the gift of confidence, and the next day she has her shoulders back, a little wiggle in the walk, smiling and making lots of eye contact.

Yes, I'll concede that she will be more attractive. It won't move her from 'no' to 'yes,' and it won't be as big a change as if she'd lost 20 extra pounds. But it could take her from "I'd do her" to "I'm gonna go over there and talk to her," I suppose.

But if I were giving advice to a woman having trouble attracting men, I wouldn't start by telling her to be more confident (as I would with a man in the same situation). It'd be well down the list, below all the "musts" and "shoulds" in the "bonuses" section. So if (to return to the topic) she's more confident because she got an unattractive haircut, that's a net loss.

Cail Corishev said...

Certainly not 2.5 feet of hair / farm girl / split ends / in a braid every day. There cannot be any person anywhere who finds that any more attractive than a pixie.

[waving hand] One right here. Long > short, period.

Is it possible that a woman in a well-coifed pixie cut posed for a picture could look better than the same woman with two feet of unbrushed tangles? Absolutely. But we're not talking about looking at pictures of best/worst-case scenarios; we're talking about what men want on the women they live with and have sex with. In that context, a woman who doesn't take care of her long hair isn't going to keep her pixie cut looking and smelling its best either. And the woman with long hair will wash and brush it sometimes, and at least the man will get to enjoy it then. So long is better, period.

Josh said...

No guy has any idea what split ends are.

Those that do have no desire to sleep with you.

SarahsDaughter said...

SarahsDaughter said...

sigh.



I'm a bit confused.

Stickwick said...

No guy has any idea what split ends are.

The ends of the hair literally split, like the end of a rope that frays. Men generally don't get them, because y'all get your hair cut often enough that the hair never has time to fray. Longer hair --> split ends just due to wear and tear over time. If it gets out of hand, it makes hair look unhealthy and shaggy. However, it's easily taken care of if you get your hair trimmed a little bit every couple of months -- even a 1/2" trim off the ends will take care of it. Not a big deal.

SarahsDaughter said...

Split ends aren't nearly as much of an issue now as they were in the 80's when cans of aqua cement and lots of ratting was needed.

kh123 said...

They comment, curse, and protest because they really don't care.

I wonder if that applies to SWPLs and the sodomite lobby as well. Condemning cracker, coital rights; just not all that important to them.

VD said...

But in your own work of fiction you seem to give credence to the naturalness of the way women control men in under the surface ways. It's really all women have in their arsenal. In the context of hair, I suspect a woman could just as easily use long hair as a manipulative tactic (see: hair flipping).

It's the difference between control and inducement. I don't mind giving in to my wife's blandishments even though I know perfectly well what she is doing. She is appealing to my agency and my authority... and often to my sense of humor.

A woman who attempts to control me, on the other hand, is attempting to deny my agency and reject my authority.

To put it in female terms, the difference between female manipulation and female control to a man is akin to the difference between seduction and rape. One might get to the same place in the end, but there is nevertheless a world of difference between them.

VD said...

It may help to understand that men will happily do just about anything to see joy in the eyes of the women we love.

And yet, we would rather die than lift a finger because a woman ordered us to do so.

I suspect this is because if we were not wired in this manner, our mothers would never get us weaned. Male children have to rebel against the smothering nature of female authority, and whenever a woman orders us around, we see her in her maternal aspect, not her romantic one.

And seeing your lover as your mother is repellant to those who lack an Oedipal complex.

Anonymous said...

Hi Stingray, if I am ever again in the market for a man I may get that book. The current Mr. makes good money, can converse intelligently, and is not obsessed with the Greek alphabet. I did say "Hey! Do you think I should grow my hair long?". He said, "I don't care, it's your hair.". (Pause). "maybe I'll grow a man ponytail.". How's that for a vile threat?

Supernaut said...

It may help to understand that men will happily do just about anything to see joy in the eyes of the women we love.

And yet, we would rather die than lift a finger because a woman ordered us to do so.


This x 1000.

I suspect this is because if we were not wired in this manner, our mothers would never get us weaned. Male children have to rebel against the smothering nature of female authority, and whenever a woman orders us around, we see her in her maternal aspect, not her romantic one.

Which also explains the necessity of having a strong, masculine Father in children's life. So they can be imprinted with the template of masculinity and how it interacts with expressions of femininity.

When a Mother tries to order her husband around, and he handles it correctly (ALPHA), the children develop a healthy attitude towards the polarity of the sexes and the way they work in a complementary way.

It's no accident that the proliferation of BETAs (supplicants for female approval) has come from the proliferation of the Single Mother Household throughout society.


Stickwick said...

"maybe I'll grow a man ponytail.". How's that for a vile threat?

The vileness of the threat depends on how his hair would look. If he grew it out like this, then it's pretty vile. If grew his hair out like this or even this, then yowza, tell him to go for it.

OffTheCuff said...

"Madame, you are no Charlize Theron."

This is ideal to me: https://www.dropbox.com/s/txx8tu2u9mepvqm/red.jpg

My wife.

But, really, any longer than shoulder is a bonus with diminishing returns. Even a angled-bob-long front thing is acceptable to me, as long as the face is entirely surrounded.

Loki of Asgard said...

Speaking for myself alone--for there are no men like me--I am thoroughly enjoying Sigyn's four-foot-long "farm braid". It serves as a convenient bellpull or leash. Ah, the days when I would tie her braid to her desk chair just to annoy her...

Were you expecting a lengthy ode to her honey-coloured tresses? A panegyric to how they slip between my fingers like finest silk as I embrace her? Nay, I am not such a slave to sentiment.

But I tell you that if she shortened her hair, I should be very cross indeed.

Brian the Brain said...

Greetings From The Northwest!

We have a standing proverb in these parts about women with short hair and other distinctive body features:

Question: Do you know how to spot a married woman in Portland?

Answer: Short hair and a big butt!

Morale of the story: If you want to show the world how universally unattractive you are then chop your hair and don't watch what you eat. If you want to be attractive then take care of your hair and watch your figure - like women used to do in the age before Feminism!

Stingray said...

RAGNAR!!!! *droooooooolllll*

SarahsDaughter said...

OffTheCuff, your wife's hair is gorgeous!

INTJ said...

Gah. Only think I can't stand about GirlWritesWhat.

Anonymous said...

"Baby bunny hop hop a bipity boo..."

100 pts to SarahsDaughter for making Vox curl up in the fetal position and cry like a little girl!!!


OffTheCuff said...

Thank you SD. She is frustrated by it, but I tell her it's awesome all the time. That's a home color and nothing else (curls, straighteners, product, or highlights).

Mina said...

I guess my observations are biased by the world I run around in. out here farm girls keep their hair ridiculously long and in braids because they are too lazy and uncaring to do anything else.

it's not a matter of caring for themselves, it's a matter of not being bothered enough to care. I know because I did it too - for far too long.

but if you all say that's attractive. great. I'll try to post some photos over the summer show season and you can tell me whether your observation changes.

Stickwick said...

RAGNAR!!!! *droooooooolllll*

I knew you'd appreciate that. I almost have my husband talked into wearing his hair like that. He's already got the beard and the crazy eyes. ;^)

Desert Cat said...

INTJ said...
"Gah. Only think I can't stand about GirlWritesWhat."
April 9, 2013 at 5:44 PM


Aah, I figure she does it to maintain her feminist cred whilst bashing the hell out of feminism.

INTJ said...

@ OTC

Why the hell is your wife frustrated by her hair? That's amazing hair!

Doom said...

Long hair is only really important if you want a woman for longer term. Femininity is required, and short hair isn't. If you want a fire and forget, short hair is fine. The shorter the hair the quicker the affair. Shave her bald, if she has a figure and, in your best estimation, no disease? Hit it. Then run.

Tag, I loved that game back in the day.

Don't be picky when you are just counting coup. Add up the scalps, subtract diseases, divide by length of time to obtain, multiply by exit speed. What was the question?

BoysMom said...

Mina, it takes about ten seconds to get long hair out of a braid, maybe a minute if it's a french braid. The braid keeps it much cleaner, especially if it's put up.
Just because long hair is easier and cheaper doesn't mean it's not also sexier. Guys are, for the most part, pretty simple. In my experience, problems generally arise when we ladies think they ought to be more complex then they are.

marie said...

Can I also add that it isnt just about the length, they style fads out there are also offensive to men. Even of a woman has long supple beautiful hair once she throws a bump it in there she is instantly less attractive. "I love the bump it, it is so sexy." Said no man EVER. Women clearly invent these silly contraptions with no regard to how men feel about it.

Michael Maier said...

"once she throws a bump it "

What does that mean? Curls? Lots of guys like curly hair.

And I know what split ends are. Was plagued by them when I had my happy hair. Though I keep being told I'm gay so maybe I don't count.

marie said...

The "bump it" is a device that makes a girls hair stand up in a cone head fashion. It was a fad about a year ago and you still see it some today. It has nothing to do with curls.

Wendy said...

The bump-it makes the hair on the top of the head look thicker. I think the other option some used is to tease it underneath. The look has been around a while, but I always thought it looked rather silly.

Dr. Faust said...

Short hair makes women look like ten year old boys. DO NOT WANT.

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