Wednesday, January 9, 2013

Declining interest and intimacy

Roissy distinguishes between the two while providing a list of clues that your wife or girlfriend is in the process of bringing the relationship to its end.
Lack of Rapport

She’s stopped asking you questions.

She’s stopped sharing details of her day.

Everything she declares seems crafted to be maximally antagonistic to your beliefs and values.

Lack of Attraction

She’s stopped having sex with you.

She’ll take any excuse to denigrate you.

She winces when you touch her.
By the time a relationship reaches this point, most men panic and revert to full supplication mode, which only guarantees humiliation as well as increasing the chance that the relationship will collapse.  Athol Kay's program of steady self-improvement is the only real means of increasing the odds of reversing the pattern; appeals to historical commitment, past emotions, and religious principles are proven to be of little value in this regard.


Doom said...

If married, I suppose I would have to figure things out, never been but hope if it happens to do it only once. If dating, it's my cue to begin hunting again. That usually solved her problem, but left me with options. I didn't always leave the chillbain, but sometimes, if she was simply too much of a problem child, too often. I actually think, if married, hunting around and finding better, and making sure she understands, might still be the way? Dunno, thinking...

Shimshon said...

Now that I am aware of this situation (I had it in my spades in my own marriage) I am finding that in pretty much every troubled marriage I am aware of, a wifely lack of attraction (and concomitant lack of game by the husband) is the culprit. I have tried, on a few occasions to introduce some red pill thinking to the henpecked husbands, but they just don't want to hear it. Really sad, but not unexpected.

DJ said...

In hind sight:
2 out of each category were in existence and I was in full supplication mode leading up to the ex wifes affair

redlegben said...

I read somewhere on the manosphere about what an impact the initial attraction level of the wife to the husband has to do with being able to regain hand. I would have to agree with that statement based on my personal observations and personal testimony. I don't think a husband can regain hand if they didn't have it in the first place.

Anonymous said...

i wont be overvaluating Athol's power.
by all means - its the best source available for LTR game, however he married to a virgin and to pretty decent woman (from what i can tell). i truly advise to get his book and read it.

i was using his alpha-beta ping-pong strategy in my relationships and learned a lot, nevertheless its often girl who has to be decent as well.

if your gf cheats from start even Athol wont help.

funny stuff that slut i was with trully felt in love after mmsl strategies, but she was still slut and it ended ugly.

Trust said...

A strong indicator that a marriage is in trouble is a wife that makes sour faces while her husband talks.

taterearl said...

@ Shimson

You can't save everybody. Just yourself and the willing.

Shimshon said...

@taterearl, I know! However, I did turn on one friend hard, inadvertantly. Initially he thought I was crazy (using words like "submit" and "dominance" was so jarring at first) but like me, he's a genuinely red pill (of truth) man. This was when I had only read some of Vox's posts on the theoretical aspects of gender roles only. I hadn't even checked out this blog yet, let others, or follow up into applying it. He did. And is the one who helped me grok the benefit of applying it to my own life. Now, he's actually counseling single (and looking for mates) and married (with problems) men. Game is at the core of what he does. We talk shop about all his clients (which he's gotten since he started last year) and the situations are fascinating. He's worked with everyone from natural lower alphas (who get it pretty easily and quickly) to deltas (who fight the most) to an outright omega (he actually gets it to some degree, but is so scared of his wife he barely gets anywhere).

Johnny Caustic said...

It pleases me that the word "supplication" is still being used in Game pretty much the same way it has been since Ross Jeffries introduced it 20 years ago. I'm not a fan of his Speed Seduction, but his book "How to get the women you desire into bed", published 20 years ago this past September, is still a great primer about supplication.

(Note: There seems to be a watered-down version of the book free on Jeffries' site. Unfortunately, it seems to omit the best material from the original book.)

Justthisguy said...

OT, but Ted is busted. I got him to admit to lurking on Yup, he is One of Us. He did manage to reproduce, though, which is better than I have done.

Justthisguy said...

P.s. If one is autistic, the Normal psychosexual rules do not apply. If one is autistic and his wife is neurotypical, well, Katy bar the door!

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...

It is very disturbing when the women begins to side step, mock, ignore and defy her man's character/authority.

Nothing is more unclassy/uncool as when women corrects him public or in the presence of others. It is just not appropriate and a bad sign of how the R-ship is going.

tz said...

[women have an] "... increased irritability, increased propensity to depression, weight gain and a reduced sex drive".

That is from and if you find her revised discussion, the symptoms parallel the main post set more closely.


If you are a bastard anyway, dump the bitch. She isn't worth any of it.

Anonymous said...

Full quote that tz pulled from the website:

"The common side effects of the chemical contraceptives are: increased irritability, increased propensity to depression, weight gain and a reduced sex drive. Most women who use chemical contraceptives complain of these side effects. I'm sure that every woman in this room would like to be taking a pill that makes her more irritable, more prone to depression, helps her gain weight and have a reduced sex drive. I'm sure every man in this room wants the woman he's dealing with to be more irritable, more prone to depression, to gain weight and have a reduced sex drive. We have something for you: it's called the chemical contraceptive."

My apologies Vox, but I'm going to go OT here:

I only have my personal anecdotal evidence at this very moment, but the young women I know who don't use birth control, half the behavioral problems we discuss in the manosphere don't exist in these women or are much more muted (they are still women so hypergamy and security seeking still apply). It would be interesting to discuss chemical contraceptives and their possible contribution to the screwed up SMP/MMP. I've heard of studies showing it changes what kind of men women like and it also contributes to increased rates of physical abuse but I don't have links at this time.

Of course there is one problem I see already in this line of inquiry: women who are willing to forgo the use of contraception might have a natural tendency for mate loyalty, long term thinking, high impulse control, and other positive behaviors for marital fidelity and mate bonding. Or not using contraceptives has assisted in these behaviors being reinforced. Or both.

Hormones severely influence behavior and I find it odd that chemical contraception is never discussed in a sphere where we dissect human behavior. Is it not discussed because of the problem I noted above? Or is it because while we all complain about the side effects we all selfishly enjoy the benefits and therefore do not wish to shine the light of inquiry on this subject?

(Speaking of which, with infertility having risen sharply since the wide spread use of contraception you'd think someone would do a study on hormone manipulation and fertility levels. You seen any? And where are all the watermelon environmentalists demanding studies on the effects of contraceptive hormones in the water supply and environment?)


taterearl said...

I've mention artificial birth control on Dalrock's site as the root cause of all the feminist thinking. Nothing ever gets going from that.

All of our modern societal ills come from artificial birth control. It is probably 90% of the reason for a divorce. Sure you get easy pussy but it's not worth the cost.

It would benefit men as well to get rid of that stuff...there wouldn't be as much estrogen in the drinking water.

Cail Corishev said...

You guys are right about contraception, but it's a hard thing to explain to people. I didn't get it myself (despite being Catholic and accepting the Church's teaching on it) until I either heard or read a sermon where a priest did a brilliant job of tying it together with abortion and other ills, showing that it's all of a piece with removing God from our lives.

I'll have to see if I can find that back and post about it.

Ted D said...

Justthisguy - "OT, but Ted is busted. I got him to admit to lurking on Yup, he is One of Us. He did manage to reproduce, though, which is better than I have done."

I don't think a single soul reading my posts is surprised to find out I'm high on the spectrum. In fact, I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in another thread here before. It isn't "official" or anything, and I also score very highly on introversion and judging on the MBTI, but that may be chicken and egg.

Re: chemical birth control - this subject intrigues me. My wife can't take any of it due to some female problems (mostly PCOS) but I wouldn't want her taking it anyway if she could at this point. I've noticed behavioral changes in LTR mates from years past when they switched up their BC, and I'd love to see more info on it. As taterearl pointed out though, the conversation rarily takes hold anywhere, and I've not seen much in the way of real data on the subject.

My initial thought is: Big $ pharma and the feminists don't want anyone looking at this. Big Pharma would lose a ton of money, and women would lose much of the control over their "reproductive rights" if they had to stop taking BC. Can't fuck like a man if you get knocked up all the time...

taterearl said...

Artificial birth control is the cancer...everything else is the side effect. I get why it sticks, power, and sex. The trifecta.

Game by the way I look at it is making men even more manly just because birth control turns women into men.

Ted D said...

Since we are talking about BC and female hormones:

Looks like we are starting to see some real scientific study of the female 'dual' mating strategy. This researcher claims he wants to dig in further. I hope he follows through with it.

Desert Cat said...

Justthisguy said...
P.s. If one is autistic, the Normal psychosexual rules do not apply. If one is autistic and his wife is neurotypical, well, Katy bar the door!

Pf. You ain't seen nothin' until you pair an Aspie with a Borderliner. Katy hide the thermonuclear weapons...

Desert Cat said...

On the OT topic, it was when my wife had her tubal ligation and got off hormonal birth control, that the relationship began spiraling out of control. In retrospect, she was having normal day 14 estrogen peaks for the first time in our married life, and the delta/gamma stuff I had sunk to were finally taking their toll.

Since then, learning and riding the normal hormonal cycle has been a big part of the salvation of the marriage. This week has been "peak week" and it is an adventure seeing what alpha I can "get away" with. A little more every time... (mwahaha!)

Desert Cat said...

Doom said...
I actually think, if married, hunting around and finding better, and making sure she understands, might still be the way?

Roissy Commandment No. VII is the most problematic for the married man. It is necessary to fulfill the intent, not the letter of the commandment in a Christian marriage. The intent is state control and inner game fortification.

The practical application in a married LTR is likely sufficient open flirting (without intent to consummate) to make it clear to both her and you that a smorgasbord of options remain open, should this relationship founder on the rocks of her intransigence. Athol Kay's MAP is a great way to get to the point that it can become a credible tool.

rycamor said...

Semi-OT: Perusing Vox's post about guns and the slave mentality I am struck by this Frederick Douglas quote:

"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them."

I suspect there is a Game parallel, no?

Trust said...

Of course, there is always the factor where premarital attraction is feigned in pursuit of the marriage, in which case the perceived loss of attraction is merely the loss of a reason to keep faking it.

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