Saturday, March 17, 2012

Deeper questions

Animal explains the difference between an alpha and a beta:

Contrary to what you might think, human heavy hitters do everything in their power to find ways to co-exist. Generally by 1) Ignoring each other (while at the same time doing the human version of what the cats did) 2) Becoming friends 3) If not friends, then friendly/polite towards each other in a kind of middle ground between these two points.

It is the betas who get their fur all fluffed and walk stiff legged with their backs up. This basically occurs because betas do not understand the concept of sharing space ... yes, we just said they don't know how to play well with others. What they especially don't understand is that it isn't all about them.

And that is why they end fighting more ... with other betas. They aren't proving that they are alphas when they do this, they're just jockeying for position in the pecking order.

Despite some people's objections that the simpler, binary, sexual ranking is sufficient to determine if a man is an alpha, the broader socio-sexual classification has proven far more valuable to me in my efforts to navigate and understand social dynamics. For several months I have have had the opportunity to observe several sexually successful males in social situations. By every account they are ALPHAS, and they even self identify as such. Despite this I would never follow them. I have, and always will, actively resist their efforts to make me part of their group. They are very likable, but it would be extremely foolish to become part of their group, or worse accept their leadership.

These ALPHAs completely fit Animal's description of beta. I have listened to numerous stories where they brag about their fights, and their sexual exploits (including married women). The seem willing to fight at slightest insult. Their dominance displays are ridiculous. While they are unquestionably ALPHA, they fail to provide an admirable standard. Their mistakes are (and honestly I made the same mistakes), are to equate fear with respect, submissiveness with trust, and aggression with strength. The value laden Sigma and Animal's secure alpha are far more compelling standards. I have yet to encounter either in person.

I am beginning to question if the search for sex will solve anything. Over at Vox Popoli, commenter Nate mentioned that his criticism of game is that it focuses on women's standards, not men's. This makes a great deal of sense to me. Men understand each others struggles, and bestow respect when it is deserved. Women, on the other hand, are attracted to traits that have little substance. Women do not go through the same struggles and so do not understand what it takes to be a man. Skill in the sexual game is necessary to a sexual relationship, but I have deeper personal questions that need answering. I want substance, not a parody of it. Perhaps my exclusive focus on attracting women is premature. Perhaps the question I should ask is: do I have what it takes to take care of a woman? Perhaps more important: Do I have what it takes to be man?

48 comments:

Soga said...

The search for sex will not solve anything but your desire for sex. That's it.

However, attracting women is part of the equation in finding yourself as a man. A real man, as opposed to the parody of men as is common in our society, is more likely to attract women, who are still biologically wired to seek men who are men. Just as men still prefer feminine traits in women, women still prefer masculine traits in men.

As you work on improving your ranking from Omega through practicing Game and adopting inner Game, you will eventually find yourself transformed, and you'll have found the answer to your questions.

Anonymous said...

Yes, this is good and very true writing.

Fortunately for 98% of the general population, you will never need to know how to operate around the truly dangerous people that Marc is talking about. Simple avoidance is all you need. And it is what I would recommend.

Mr. Nightstick said...

Much better.

SouthTXRedneck said...

Thanks for the link to Animal. Have to favorite it because it is great reading. Interesting train of thought. Married a virgin at 20, so the N for me is low. But 3 very successful kids later, she still packs my lunch before I go to work with a smile. I think Animal probably nailed it. My wife is proudly anti-feminist.

SouthTXRedneck said...

But you need to put your family first. Anytime I go out hunting, I ask the kids if they want to go. (Wife never was into it). Usually have at least one taker. Never took up golf like many of my co-workers who would leave kid's in daycare while they went and played. Taught my 10 yr old daughter (youngest kid) how to handle a .22. Don't have much of a social life outside of work. If I'm not working to provide, I am usually with the wife and kids. And very happy. Trust me, when you have a son who mentally turns an adult, it's great to have someone to have interesting conversations with. The oldest is a 4.0 engineering major. He and I love H.P. Lovecraft. He also is in a LTR with an All American cheerleader. I guess a natural who has nerdish qualities is still a natural.

Matthew Walker said...

Handling women well is one of the things a well rounded man has to know. Part of handling them well is the "inner game" business of valuing women at their true worth. You no longer value them so much or take them so seriously. They won't solve all your problems. Neither will a roof over your head, but life without one is lousy.

When you've been struggling all your life for a roof, and you finally master the business of getting one, you'll find that you still have other problems.

The reward for solving a big problem is the next problem. What a man does is go out and solve problems. You're off to a good start. Just keep it up for another 40-odd years.

Gareth said...

Untill i got to the start of the last paragraph i though this was a post by Vox.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Damn. Stop whining.

You should hang out with alphas who have class, taste, and sophistication.

Suz said...

Before I discovered the Manosphere, I considered "players" to be Alpha wannabe betas. In wild dog populations, they are the adolescent males developing their alpha potential. The less aggressive ones remain in the pack and stay well below the level of the alpha. The more aggressive ones eventually leave the pack to start packs of their own (except for the lucky few who come of age during the decline of the alpha, and take his place.) They display alpha traits, but not enough to rule anything except one female at a time

No matter how sexually successful these men were, I never considered them true alphas unless they could prove themselves capable of taking on the broad range of responsibilities held by a leader. Having various "alpha traits" doesn't make a man a Wolf Alpha.

Markku said...

Number 1 priority shouldn't be sex, unless you really want to have lots of sex. It should be to make sure that when you meet a girl who is actually worth a shot, you don't then blow it up because you are a pussy.

The biggest mistake at this point would be to decide that you just want to be a Sigma, by which the man's version of rationalization hamster means that you'll just drop it all and play Battlefield 3.

Markku said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Markku said...

Dammit, there seem to be problems with this commenting system too. Using the back-button of your browser may lead to duplicate comments.

Vox said...

It's important to distinguish between the social Alpha and the sexual Alpha. They overlap, but they are not identical. This is why I prefer to view things from a socio-sexual perspective, since it provides for a more effective and readily observable hierarchy.

After all, the one type is the woman's vote and the other is the men's vote. Since society is made up of both men and women, both perspectives must be taken into account.

Vox said...

It's not that a real Sigma won't play Battlefield 3... it's just that he'll get the occasional blowjob while playing it.

Hint: don't choose Recon.

Aeoli Pera said...

RM: Glad to see someone around here listens to wisdom every now and then. Can't go much wrong listening to the Animal.

It's important to distinguish between the social Alpha and the sexual Alpha.

Can't stress that enough. In simple, homogeneous cultures they are one and the same:

[Dingos] breed once a year, like wolves, and when undisturbed they have a stable pack structure topped by one male-female pair, the only ones in the pack that reproduce. -Steve Sailer

In complex cultures, males tend to specialize in personality traits, just as they specialize in trades. Not merely for facility is it called the sexual market.

Aeoli Pera said...

Bonus insight:

As Western culture dismantles itself, the traits of the default dogs [dingos] will be in greater demand as smaller, simpler packs form.

As the pendulum swings to social conservatism, more females will be attracted to males exhibiting a smaller measure of both sexual and social alpha traits.

Stingray said...

Vox said: After all, the one type is the woman's vote and the other is the men's vote.

In a typical situation where both men and women are present, isn't the Alpha with the men's vote usually the same man who receives the women's vote?

Markku said...

Only ever so slightly OT:

A Finnish hit song a while back

Somewhat clumsy translation (Owing to the fact that the translator tried to make each line correspond to each other, without regard to the totally different sentence structures between the languages.)

She right out says that the fact that the alpha will hurt her is not merely a price she pays for being with him, it's the reward itself.

Markku said...

And make no mistake, this song was not written for her by someone else. She is one of the few artists who composes, writes, produces and sings her own songs.

Jestin Ernest said...

a - she has a good voice

b - this goes back to my opinion of the pro-Bill Clinton feminine vote: women KNEW what he was before he got to the presidency the first time. and they LIKED it.

now, clearly, there were many women who did not like it. and we're going to have a disproportionately high percentage of them here.

Koanic said...

Yes, correct, maybe.

Women's attraction is a rapid, honest feedback tool. It is more objective and reliable than self-evaluation of your masculinity, particularly at earlier maturity levels.

Your actualized masculine self will be attractive to women. So if you're not attractive, you know you haven't attained it. However, a path of self-improvement guided solely by female sexual feedback will not guide you to your actualized masculine self.

Desiderius said...

"It's important to distinguish between the social Alpha and the sexual Alpha. They overlap, but they are not identical. This is why I prefer to view things from a socio-sexual perspective, since it provides for a more effective and readily observable hierarchy.

After all, the one type is the woman's vote and the other is the men's vote. Since society is made up of both men and women, both perspectives must be taken into account."

Nah, I think the women know who the real alphas are. They're just trying to game the system by getting the genes (or, higher up the socioeconomic ladder, the feeling that they are) of promiscuous men (thereby maximizing the sexiness of their own sons), while still enjoying all the other benefits of being with a man who is masterful/dominant in general once she "settles down". Some even have the temerity to try to continue having their cake and eating it too after that (see the women in Shame).

This only works if the vast majority of these masterful men (not to mention other women) adhere to the social norm of monogamy - i.e. the (the very difficult to attain) height of civilization.

Hypergamy is not the problem, it's the lust for polygamy at one remove (sexy sons) that has undermined the system.

Jestin Ernest said...

Animal has a good point for women here:
"(Special note to women: Men and women are different psychologically. One of the bigger issues that women tend to be more verbally vicious than men when they fight each other. What we about to tell you is an important safety tip, and that is not hyperbole, we have seen any number of women beaten over what we are about to tell you. A common male behavior is to turn and walk away from a verbal conflict. Simple stated if your man does this, YOU'VE WON! Let him go and don't say anything else until he cools down.

The reason for this -- and this is hard for women to understand because of how they fight with one another -- is when a man does this, he has decided to walk away rather than become physically violent! He isn't sticking an emotional knife into you and running away before you can respond. He's trying NOT to become violent! It is a recognized male behavior to allow for a cooling down period. He doesn't want it to go violent, and by walking away he is trying to avoid it from happening. This is a HUGE gender difference between men and women. And you need to know he isn't insulting you by walking away.)
"

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Desiderius said...

"She right out says that the fact that the alpha will hurt her is not merely a price she pays for being with him, it's the reward itself."

Yes, it is the dump of the pump and dump that is most intensely sought (this is analogous to the old saw about why rich men hire prostitutes - they don't pay for the sex, they pay her to leave in the morning).

The maximally promiscuous man (and thus the one most likely to produce the sexiest sons) is the one who can attract women as desirable as the woman believes herself to be without committing to her. A mate who commits is not, by definition, maximally promiscuous, as he would then be required to forgo future opportunities to spread his seed.

The LP 999/Linda said...

Always insightful RM, continue the good work.

I often compare/contrast which would be better, easier, more difficult; being a man or woman? So far, being a man would be more difficult but there seems to be more opportunities for men over women.

Just thinking aloud for a moment...The stumbling blocks in my life during the last 15 years are haunting questions of why don't feel a connection to ____, what do I really have to offer (with how the cultural is), and loners never made good lovers.

I wonder if I somehow missed an oppty. or wasn't given the chance to be a good girlfriend, wife and mother. I find the largest obstacles are reasonable matches separated by distance.

DCM said...

RM, read Yohami's blog, linked here at Alpha Game, starting with the earliest posts. He advises becoming the man you want to be, rather than trying to run a fake ALPHA persona all the time, which would be exhausting. He says he's been there and done that, and he's figured out a better way.

Yohami, chime in, here.

Markku said...

Since Linda decided to be so obvious that all Ilk probably have a knowing grin right now, I agreed to a couple of weeks whenever it can be arranged.

Don't worry people, I know what I'm getting. I have photos from last summer. Near the lower end of normal weight region, and with certain features that don't normally coincide with that weight.

Anonymous said...

"Perhaps the question I should ask is: do I have what it takes to take care of a woman? Perhaps more important: Do I have what it takes to be man?"

Is part of being a man taking care of a woman?

Peter Garstig said...

If one chooses to have a relationship with a woman, then yes.

Josh said...

pics or it doesn't count

Markku said...

Josh pics or it doesn't count

The pics are too... informative for me to just post them.

Perhaps Linda might want to take some that are more suitable for public consumption.

Nate said...

The alpha male that the men see as the Alpha Male is almost always the same male the women see as the alpha male. The presence of a sigma obviously disrupts this... but even then... just because there are chicks that are into the sigma privately doesn't mean they aren't publicly into the alpha that all the males are following.

Look... we don't take women's advice on what women want... nor should you take their advice on your dress. Generally... you shouldn't take their advice on anything. Do what you do... and when she needs it... give her advice.

A man is not the leader of the pack because the girls want him. The girls want him because he's the leader of the pack.

Game is the study of approximating the behavior of the leader of the pack on a... for the most part.. superficial level. I wrote an article Vox posted here a while back. Its called Dragon Slaying. If you want to do something besides approximate... read it.

Markku said...

More video craziness:

Top Ten "Hottest" Animated Guys

Yeah yeah, she's an annoying feminist girl. But you just tell me that number ten didn't manage to still surprise you about how weird girls are. No matter what a cynical bastard you were.

Stingray said...

Linda,

I don't know how much of a loner you are, but that is not necessarily true. I can get along, and do, with just about anyone. But I am a loner and always have been. You are introspective enough that you know what a man wants and I get the impression that doing this would make you happy. That is what will make you a good lover. Being a loner has nothing to dow with it.

Stingray said...

Egads! That is . . . stunning. I always found him utterly appalling. I am a bit shocked.

Josh said...

wait, people out there are sexually attracted to cartoons? and not like japanese tentacle porn, but children's cartoons?

Markku said...

I'd be pretty worried if they were right now.

But I'm sure at least two thirds of the female readership could immediately name at least their top three from their pre-teen days.

I'm also pretty sure the lists would be as devoid of nice guys as the one in the video.

burgundy said...

Nice Writing. Very True insight!

Anonymous said...

"Contrary to what you might think, human heavy hitters do everything in their power to find ways to co-exist. Generally by 1) Ignoring each other (while at the same time doing the human version of what the cats did) 2) Becoming friends 3) If not friends, then friendly/polite towards each other in a kind of middle ground between these two points."


Love this one. Had a perfect example of this a couple years ago. I'm in this bar having a beverage by myself (Sigma here). So I get to talking to these girls (brunette/blond) and one of them recognized me from another bar. Where I used to work the door/crowd control.

So the brunette was buying me drinks and shots, making me feel overly comfortable. The blonde was superficial and so annoying. The blonde keeps going on about where I worked. As I deftly try to move away from that conversation without any luck. As I despise talking about these altercations. It was bad enough that we had to write them up by law.

So finally, just to shut her up, I quietly without thinking explained to the blonde that the state we were in was pretty...well let's just say that it rhymes with posse. When it comes to fighting or nightly altercations. When compared to a couple other states that I've worked in. Right on cue, the blonde calls out to (evidently) the baddest bad assed alpha in the bar to tell him what I said about his state. He looks me over pretty good from across the room for about a half a minute. Looks back at her and says "I agree with him". I hold my bottle up, he did the same...respect.




"These ALPHAs completely fit Animal's description of beta. I have listened to numerous stories where they brag about their fights, and their sexual exploits (including married women). The seem willing to fight at slightest insult."


As an ex security guy/bar bouncer/whatever and ex womanizer with a high N count. I can assure you without any question, that the ones who bark the loudest, will almost always without fail have the least bite. And never forget that appearance ("seem willing") is everything with a poser.

Nate said...

See... I've been beating this drum forever... but most people just can't get their cartoonish archetype alpha out of their heads. They need the alphas to be morons.

Its just not the case. There are all kinds of girls on the girl tree. No reason to bother getting worked up.

Stingray said...

They need the alphas to be morons.

I've also noticed that people seem to want alphas to be assholes. I have tried to argue otherwise, but it's often not taken well. They don't need to be stupid, assholes, and they don't need to have a high N count. So, why is this hard to accept? Is it that most are and people don't like to think, or have a difficult time comprehending, NAAALT?

Nate said...

Its the gamma coming out them. They have to try to tear down the concept of alpha so they can reject it. Vox actually contributes to this by referencing alpha dominance games. Its a point I disagree with him on. Alphas don't compete for packs... alphas simply form their own pack. or more accurately I would say... packs form around them.

Stingray said...

Makes sense, Nate. However, I do think that lower alphas will compete for packs. A high alpha that people flock to naturally is someone who is such a rarity these days that I am beginning to think that there are some people out there who have never met such a person.

Nate said...

I am thinking its a distinct possibility Stingray. its like everyone assumes that Alphas have to work to be the center of attention... like we crave it.

We don't. It just happens. We're find with it happening of course... but that doesn't mean we take steps to make sure it happens.

Anonymous said...

EXCELLENT! Now, read your Bible. Christ is the Alpha AND the Omega. He is the only one worth submitting to AND he sacrificed himself as an offering for you.
Don't follow men. Don't follow women. They will always dissapoint. We are all fallen. It is only through submission to the one true Lord of All and His filling us with His Holy Spirit that we can do or be anything of substence.

And while many women find a man of high sexual experience attractive, there is nothing more attractive then one who can control it, resist it and nothing women want more then one who will do so in honor of their commitment...to God.

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