Wednesday, March 14, 2012

Alpha Mail: should I stay or should I go?

PR writes to ask about the wisdom of proposing to his girlfriend:
I'm needing some advice about what to do about my girlfriend and you seem to be the best option at the moment. I'm 19 shes 20 and we've been dating on and off for 3 years now. Her grandmother( who she trusts the most) has had at least 3 divorces and her mom is probably bipolar. I've been the one to call things off with her the times that we did split up. I called things off with her because she became increasingly disrespectful and mocking as the relationship progressed. I would get sick of it and break it off with her. My gf and I are once again in a simliar position and right now she's pushing me to marry her in spite of the fact that I cannot find work and am probably joining the Air Force for work. With all her family history and the state of the family court system I'm more than a little hesitant.
Well, let's begin by simply counting the red flags.

1. She's older. Not the biggest deal, but marriages tend to function better when the husband is older than the wife.
2. They've been dating "on and off". So, the mutual commitment simply isn't there.
3. Her grandmother has three divorces.
4. Her mother is probably bi-polar.
5. She has a history of bad behavior once she becomes comfortable within a relationship.
6. She's pushing him to marry her.
7. PR doesn't have a job.
8. Military wives are notorious for their unfaithfulness.

I don't think PR has to worry about the state of the family court system. I wouldn't recommend any man marry a woman with more than one or two red flags, three at the absolute most if she has sufficient - what do we call the converse, green flags? Yes, green flags it is - strong positive indicators that directly compensate for them.

Point five is probably the most telling. Women's behavior NEVER improves with marriage. It always gets worse, in part because under the current legal regime, the leverage has shifted to the extent that the average woman now appears to believe that her wedding ring comes with a government-sanctioned veto over her husband. But that isn't the only factor, as there is also a tendency that PR has probably already observed, which is that women tend to treat those close to them rather worse than they treat complete strangers. The closer the relationship, the more a woman tends to believe that the other party has a moral obligation to put up with her behavioral extremes.

This is why it is so important that a woman's behavior is exemplary before marriage. Since she's on what PR knows is her best behavior, he has to expect that she won't be able to reliably maintain it once they are married. So, based on what PR is saying here, I would not hesitate to run, not walk, for the nearest Air Force recruiting center, sign up, break up, and refuse to leave a change of address.

I suspect PR already knows what he should do. He wouldn't be asking the question otherwise. My answer to him is this: you already know you would be mad to marry her. So, do the right thing and end it with her now rather than inflict additional pain on her by permitting any false hope of an ugly and unhappy future together.


Anonymous said...

I hope he takes your advice but I bet he marries her anyway. Maybe not right away, but soon, probably after he is in the Air Force and able to get the marriage allowance for off-base housing.

My 22 year old cousin just did this. His wife is 20, and was never prepared to be a wife the way men deserve one. She wants the house and the sunny location (he's in Florida) more than him, I think. If he gets order for ADAK I think it will be all over for them.

Run, JR, fast and long. Wait for a bit, get some experience with the world while in the service, and then find a sane woman. And do not get involved with any women you meet in the military. According to my husband (6 years in the Navy) they are all nuts and quick to accuse rape when they feel offended.

Anonymous said...

PR dude, you listed like 5-6 reasons to not marry her, and not a single reason you would want to. You're not "a little hesitant", you know it's freaking retarded.

I would go to the air force, hop in the fastest freaking jet I can base, and GET THE HELL OUT at mach 3. Years later you'll be damn glad you did.

And if you go through with it, three years from now when she throws a lamp at your head and then gets YOU arrested for domestic violence, you'll be sitting in a jail cell and going "Man, I should've listened."

So yeah, choice is yours.

Asshole. said...

Bitches be crazy. But if you had to ask random internet people if you should marry a girl or not, chances are you shouldn't marry her.

finndistan said...

Since PR is going to the AirForce, he would understand this analogy:

Would you play soccer with a handgrenade that has the pin pulled?

Even a better one:

Now that Vox listed at least eight red flags,

Would you try juggling eight grenades, all with their pins pulled?

Anonymous said...

If you marry this girl after seeing all of these red flags and getting the advise of people that aren't emotionally involved in the situation, then you deserve all of the pain she will cause you later, and I can guarantee you it will be a lot, especially if you have children with her.

Hold onto VD's email address so you can update us all when this goes south. We want the chance to use you as an example to others who will one day be in your shoes. We can tell them, "look what happened to this guy...and we told him it would". Of course, they probably won't listen either.

You need to run away from this girl as fast as you can.

LibertyPortraits said...

Classic case of oneitis. This guy seriously needs to know that there are plenty of cute/attractive girls on the girl tree that will treat him better.

pABLO said...

Stay the hell away from that girl. The comments above are accurate. She'll go nuts on you and make you suffer dearly. You will have plenty of other options in a few years.

Anonymous said...

Family history of mental illness? That red flag should count as three. My ex took herself off meds twice. Her mom and I told her to go back on, but her friends said the problem was with me. Guess which side women choose.

As someone noted, the guy listed only the negatives and the positives didn't appear (maybe we have an abridged version). I think he knows it would be a disaster. And this isn't a situation that improves with time.

Finally, as a veteran, the military will always cornhole the service member if a dispute arises between the member and the spouse. They are far more concerned with the image of the military than they will be of particular circumstances. There are 1,000 groups that will take the spouses side, despite infidelity (you were never around!), B/S allegations of abuse (military members are psychos or tormented souls), etc.

This would be the worst decision of your life.

Most definitely, watch for a baby-trap.

On the plus side, the Air Force is a great option. I was in the Army and Air Force. Much better quality of life in the Air Force and opportunities to do some testosterone-laced fun, if you are up for it.

Choice is yours.

Spectator said...

I will add to the comments given by saying that the trick may not be breaking up, it will be STAYING broken up once you do. You've already said that you have broken up and gotten back together and now is the time to be decisive. Given you are going away (most likely someplace relatively far) with the AF, though it usually takes a while between when you DEP and when you actually go, now would be a good time to do it and be sure you stay broken up til you leave. Don't let the emotional get in the way of the logical once you've already made the hard (though obvious) decision.

Also just make sure on those long nights of self services that you don't start to rethink your decision. I have a friend in the AF who is stationed in Alaska and wound up dating a crazy simply because she was one of the 15 eligible women in the town near which he was stationed... Don't be that guy. Don't let yourself build you ex up like she is better than she is simply because of the complete lack of options, or otherwise act out of desperation.

Anonymous said...

bipolar tends to run in the family. Don't do it. My first girlfriend was bipolar and on-and-off her meds - it put the fear of God into me.

Even if only not to deal with the mother in law ...

Just remember, there are plenty of girls on the girl tree.

Markku said...

Hold onto VD's email address so you can update us all when this goes south. We want the chance to use you as an example to others who will one day be in your shoes.

I can see a point here. I say, marry her. One ruined life may save dozens of others. Utilitarianism, and all that.

Daniel said...

Do not willingly and openly conjoin yourself to mental illness - you'll be the one who ends up in the straitjacket.

Anglican said...

Crazy is forever. Run, my friend, run!

Vae Victus said...


The one thing you need to realize is that the 'old days' are gone forever. By 'old days', I mean the days when you could get married at 19 or 20 and stay married for life. Neither the legal system nor our U.S. 'culture' support such marriage anymore.

And remember that as they age, men become more attractive to women and women become less attractive to men. If you have a little game, you will be able to date 20 year olds when you are 30. And you will be able to pick up a hotter and saner one than this chick.

Dump her ass and don't look back. Delete her number from your phone, forget her email address, for God's sake get off of Facebook and Twitter...

Stickwick said...

PR, I'll give you a woman's perspective. As someone who used to be an immature 20-year-old woman, I can tell you this girl has ZERO sense of what it means to be a wife. She is not thinking of the ways she can sacrifice for you or make your life better -- for that is what it means to be a wife -- she is only thinking of what she wants, which, as you've already seen, will change from moment to moment.

If you are so foolish as to marry this girl, she will immediately push you to start having kids. That's when the real hell starts for you. One of my friends just finished screwing over her husband royally. Married at 20, they had a child right away. Her mood shifted pretty quickly after that, and after briefly contemplating how she could get away with cheating on him, she decided she was done with this guy. As coldly as you can imagine, she nuked the marriage. He was so devastated, he contemplated suicide. Now they share the kid, and he is shackled to this county, because neither of them is allowed to move without losing custody.

I guarantee you, this or something even worse, will be your life if you marry this girl.

What you don't yet understand is that there is a whole world of women out there, some of whom are actually sweet and don't come with a lot of baggage. When you do find a woman like this, I have one last piece of advice. Ask her to read The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands before you marry her. If she refuses, move on.

One ruined life may save dozens of others.

I'll wager every man reading this has already seen a man ruin his life this way.

Anonymous said...

I have always felt that I desire to be wanted but not needed. She needs you. As in needy.
If you want an easy answer, Join the Air Force spend a year or so apart. Trust me you will be too busy to miss her in your first 2 years of military service. You are stuck in tunnel vision right now. Expand your world.

Anonymous said...

A good friend of mine has a son who recently finished his 4 year military career. His wife left him for another guy whilst he was overseas. They have two kids. My friend's son is now in the process of paying roughly $10,000 in legal fees so as to get custody, set the alimony/spousal support payments, etc.

Odds are this is what you would have to look forward to in the next couple to three years.

PermanentGuest said...

If you have to ask, it's probably a bad idea. You should ask yourself if you can't live without her, and weigh the consequences of doing so (like you've done here). You haven't listed any 'green flags.'

Why the rush? You're barely 19. I simply don't understand the need to get married so quickly. At least do it on your own terms, and not with any pressure.

Enjoy the AF. I'm sure you'll come out with much more knowledge of the world and thank yourself for not acting on a whim (if you don't end up marrying, that is).

Yohami said...

Marry her? no. Dont date her either.

Wo Fat said...

Aside from the unfaithfulness of military wives, a military wife is about a billion times more likely to wind up as an obese landwhale within 5 years. And that's if she doesn't have a kid. She squirts out a pup, you can guarantee she'll wind up a landwhale.

Most military wives (if they're not in the military themselves--mil to mil marriage) are fat fat fat. This goes for officers as well. The thin woman usually winds up sitting around the house with nothing to do. Then she gets taken in by the troop of whales and spends her days eating and drinking starbucks.

Anonymous said...


Don't marry her. Way too many red flags.


Desert Cat said...

I called things off with her because she became increasingly disrespectful and mocking as the relationship progressed.

This is not advice regarding marrying her (flee!) but regarding the state of your gamesmanship.

This disrespect and mocking you receive is a measure of the shit tests that you fail while you're with her. When you ditch her for her shit, you're showing a measure of cojones that she respects enough to clear the deck of the failed tests leading up to that point. So when you get back together, the relationship seems to work for a while.

But as the effect of the failed shit tests build up again, she starts to lose respect and the mocking begins again.

You might want to bone up on shit tests and how to effectively deflect them to build attraction, for the sake of your future relationships.

Anonymous said...

Your only debate would be whether it is better to fight her house to house or to nuke her from orbit. Unless your name is Paul Reiser, nuke her from orbit - its the only way to be sure.

stg58 said...

Military wives are wickedly notorious for their unfaithfulness. Ask a Marine who has spent time on the West Coast about "Westpac Widows".

The sluttiest women on earth are military wives, because they live on the same installation with thousands upon thousands of alpha males who are overly aggressive, know no fear and could bottle overconfidence and sell it.

Anonymous said...

Don't do it for all of the above mentioned reasons. Don't settle just cause shes the one there right now, shes crazy, and you're bored. Marriage is a serious thing, don't just jump in cause she wants you to.

JCclimber said...

Depressing. That a 19 year old male would be contemplating marriage at all.
Without a job.
In today's legal climate.
Despite all the red flags.

Go down to the local animal shelter and rescue a pathetic looking dog. You'll satisfy your need to rescue something, and it will actually give you unconditional love in return.

As Vox said, #5 red flag is the WORST red flag in the world. She's already bipolar. It's just getting warmed up. Oh, and break up with her in a public place, and break off all contact.

Oh well, I can tell already that you're probably going to ignore all this advice, because your logic has already been ignored by yourself every time you get back together. Enjoy the few minutes here and there of relative happiness among the years of absolute bitter misery.

TLM said...

As a young single man in the Army at Ft Bragg in the late 80's, once the 82nd went to the field or a DRB package was deployed, the wives cut loose and it was easy pickins. Vox's response was full of wisdom, hope you'll take it to heart.

TimP said...

I must be turning cynical. I got to "PR writes to ask about the wisdom of proposing to his girlfriend" and I already knew the correct answer was "run now and never look back".

Ghost said...

I don't know, guys. She sounds like a keeper to me.

Anyway, dude, every time she says "I can change," remember saddam's song in south park.

ken in tx said...

What nobody mentioned is that she is probably hawt. Bipolar girls are crazy in bed. Every man should have one at least once, if he can do it with being caught. If he has already had it, he should run. It won't last.

PR said...

I've been having nagging doubts for quite some time with all this. I tend to be much happier without her while she tends to fall apart. I'm looking forward to 4 years without a girl back home to stress about all the time. Thanks guys, ill keep yall posted.

Anonymous said...

You need to kick this one to the curb.. You know it, but it's comfortable. So kick her to the curb, join the Air Force, and see if you can get stationed in one of the Asian countries - you'll never go back to American women.

Anonymous said...

Son it is with almost 100% absolute certainty guaranteed that your girlfriend has had gang-bang anal sex and the video is on the internet. She justifies this as being a "virgin" because she only took it up the poop chute and swallowed but never had actual baby-making intercourse. Her childhood years were during the Clinton presidency and that is President Clinton's definition of "sexual relations".

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...

Run, ditch that damn cell phone and run even faster.

The young heart are unable to see a fish they should let go. To be charitable, this fish is probably a good person but he needs to let her go NOW. There are plenty of girls for a 19 y.o. to date the problem is she is taking the place of those other opportunities.

The mother comment was scary, didn't he meet the mother?

Unfortunately, daughters can turn into their mothers, if the mother does have some problems, the girl may or may not eventually exhibit those same patterns.

As for the Air force, don't be stuck with a GF or wife when you go abroad and see new women. They will be a breath of fresh air from the SAD (standard American diet) women.

LP2021 Bank of LP Work in Progress said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Wendy said...

I was going to try to play devil's advocate, but I got nothing.

Anonymous said...

>>>>Bipolar girls are crazy in bed. Every man should have one at least once, if he can do it with being caught.

Oh yeah, it's hot until she goes off her meds and comes at you with a butcher's knife like Cato from the Pink Panther movies, except Cato never meant to kill anybody, but she will...

Badger said...


"I've been having nagging doubts for quite some time with all this."

When I was in graduate school, I used to counsel students who would ask me "I'm not sure if I should stay through my PhD?"

To which I said, if you even have to ask the question, you shouldn't do it. You have to have a superlatively confident attitude towards the future to go down that path - or the path or marriage.

"I tend to be much happier without her while she tends to fall apart."

This is all you need to know right here. Let me tell you (never married FWIW), when you get that sort of feeling, you start looking for all sorts of ways to steal time away from her, and you come to resent what you see as her neediness to have you around. The "she falls apart" bit also means you'll have to spend your time with her cleaning up her messes instead of enjoying your time together. Codependence is not a functional life model.

Stickwick is also on point that a 20 yo woman has little to no idea what marriage is really about.

RC said...

When you break up, don't be surprised if she threatens to commit suicide if you don't marry her - if she hasn't already.

Run grasshopper, run.

Mike T said...


One thing Vox left out is that wives get a cut of your military benefits. My father found out that the hard way when he retired from the civil service (that included some Army time), got divorced a few years later and then found 30% of his pension going to my mother. Even in the best case scenario, she can stay with you until she's in her late 30s, you have a pension and then take a large chunk from you.

Ghost said...

Boiling water in the face is also a fun one. Or any object not nailed down being temporarily affixed in your skull.

And when the cops show up and arrest YOU for domestic assault, that's when it gets real. No amount of crazy hot wax strawberry chocolate syrup whips and blindfolds anal is worth it.

Like Connor McManus said, "Listen Roc, you start to get a bad vibe in there, you get the f**k out quick!"

And, also from the movies, the Door Test from the movie A Bronx Tale has never failed me. Easiest way to spot a selfish broad.

Anonymous said...

Run. Screaming.

Anonymous said...

Let me amend that. Crazy bitches never get better. They just get crazier. And bitchier. And fat.

Look 20 years down the road, PR. If you marry this psycho now, you at age 40 are either divorced and paying a shitload of child support so that she can shack up with some other guy, or worse, you're still married to her and living with her and her psycho loser kids, who may also be your kids. (But don't count on it.)

You already know you're looking at marrying a third-generation crazy bitch. For the good of the gene pool, don't make it four generations.

Anonymous said...

It looks unanimous.

Anonymous said...

Hi PR.

Answer these two questions (as I am a former military member and former military wife who is and was faithful and was married in my late teens) for your answer.

1. Would you be willing to leave an infant with colic (which means non-stop screaming) alone with her during one of your deployments where she will be under an extreme amount of stress, no sleep, be under a very tight financial budget, have complete control over you and all your assets (you sign a POA to her before you leave buddy) and she will be away from any friends and family and OH YEAH surrounded by predators of both her and your child?

*This is not to include the very real possibility that you will be ALSO leaving her on a base located in a country where she cannot speak the language and the culture is hostile to Americans. But you might want to add it to the list. *

2. Would you be faithful to her (and she to you) if either of you were handicapped to the point of no-sex and not being able to contribute financially.....for the rest of your life?

*Remember you WILL be deploying to combat situations. This can happen and you have a much higher risk.*

If the answer to these is no, you are an absolute slobbering moron for marrying her.

The only way I was able to handle any of this was my deep and utter faith in God.

Being young and married with a spouse in the military is like throwing a piglet in a lion's den.

The only women you should put a ring on her finger is a women with the courage and loyalty and faith in the Lord who will protect you and your family with her very life.

Anyone else will always be sleeping with the enemy. And STUPID!

Your Welcome,

SouthTXRedneck said...

Outside of marrying a deeply dovoted Christian girl who really embraces the faith, and sane. No way I would marry. Although to the detriment of my soul (If I hadn't and wasn't Christian), the allure of women would probably overwhelm me. Just too many easy pickin's when you aren't trying.

SouthTXRedneck said...

"No way I would marry, although to the detriment my soul". Glad I did marry a devout virgin. There's something to be said for a strict upbringing. If she has half a brain, she will thank her parents down the road.

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