Wednesday, February 22, 2012

Ego and the appeal of N

Trish, a commenter at Susan Walsh's, doesn't understand that the consequences of ego don't apply in the same manner across the sexual divide:
Maybe we just don’t like [male] sluts for the same reason men don’t, which can be attributed to “ego” as well. Why is that so hard for some people to comprehend?
"There are four reasons. First, women are notoriously bad at understanding and communicating why they do what they do. Second, because women very much like sexually experienced men, so much so that they observably harbor a vast preference for them over sexually inexperienced men. Women outright mock men who "can't get laid", so much so that they regularly resort to such insults even in cases where it manifestly doesn't apply. If a woman is calling a man "a slut" or some similar term normally directed at women, she is usually revealing an amount of jealousy as well as her own willingness to have sex with him.

Third, it isn't true. Any veteran player with strong Game can easily seduce a woman who vows up and down that she isn't attracted to the amusingly mislabled "man-slut", so long as she isn't religious, in which case she will present a more serious challenge. Note that I didn't only say such a man can do so, but that he can easily do so, and in many cases, probably has on more than one occasion.

Fourth, it is true that a woman with a high N is a slut. Period. However, the comparable male figure is not a high-N man, but rather a high-N man with an N that primarily consists of women significantly lower in SMV-rank than himself. Due to the way in which women compete amongst themselves and rank themselves vis-a-vis each other, a man whose high N is comprised of high-SMV women tends to cause a woman to think that if she attracts his attention, she too must possess a similarly high-SMV. Men, on the other hand, don't much care if you were with Brad Pitt or Joe Doorknob the unemployed plumber, because it doesn't boost their ego or their own perceived value. This means that whereas ego tends to works against male attraction, it usually works to build female attraction.

Women can snowflake all they like, of course, but they're never going to convince anyone who has seen numerous women declaring that they could never be attracted to a "man-whore" eventually succumbing to the charms of a skilled player. Women often tend to forget that because sex with SMV peers and even SMV superiors is always on offer to them, this is absolutely not true of men. That is why the slut with 30+ notches is seldom in any way comparable in terms of desirability to the opposite sex as the player with 60+.

Or, to put it in simpler terms, one can simply refer to the old bad lock vs master key analogy.

168 comments:

finndistan said...

What does it take for a fish to ride many bicycles?

A combination of qualities that are deemed attractive by women. Be it skill, talent, looks, money, power, charm....etc

What does it take for a bicycle to be taken on joyrides by many fish?

Availability.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

Reminds me of the blog about the girl who slept with Tucker Max. She had basically nothing but contempt for him but then slept with him anyway.

She had the nerve to say he wasn't any good in bed, but I suspect that Tucker either didn't care or didn't feel the need to impress her.

Anonymous said...

Quick question I am asking anon over here because it is embaressing.

I have seen you give guidence to some guys and I was hoping you could help me because I am a women and admitedly get emotional.

I have children and am a fulltime Mother, so these are very hard questions because they come from a place where upsetting the applecart, so to speak, is something to be done in only the most dire of circumstances.

My Husband is in a situation where he works on a daily basis with several women. He works with one and then the others are in his office. He takes the tack of being brotherly with them. He is very friendly. This has often been a problem for me, but he insists that it is common in his work place (I worked there, I know it is and there are a lot of affairs there as well) but I would prefer he was a bit more reserved out of deference to being married and to me.

He recently listened to a voice mail on speaker from one of these women and she said "Hey, its me, call me back." She said it in a way that made my hackles go up. I confronted him on it and he told me I was crazy. Then he said he can't force her to say "hello, I am so and so."

The problem is, this is just another time where he has been over familiar with female co-workers. He went away to a class of 20 men and four women and he studied with...one of the women. Get what I mean?

And since he knows that I don't like it, he simply doesn't tell me anything. So I trust him less.

He says he is not having sex with these women, he is not cheating, he loves me and our family but that it is just the way the work place is.

Knowing it would piss me off, but knowing that it would be more awkward to not do so, he added her and the other co-workers to our facebook page.

It is a situation where he would rather ignore or piss me off then anyone else. I have simply had enough. It will not change because he thinks I am wrong.

All it does is we get into a fight and he goes to work with women slobbering over him and telling him how spoiled I am. He then comes home and tells me how spoiled I am because I ask him to help me with something and I am covered with mess and have sick children. In other words, this "spoiled" attitude toward me is not coming from reality.

Got any advice? You say women are emotional, and we are, but we also can sense things. I find these things out. Over and over. Am I susposed to ignore them?

It appears I am if I am to continue in this marriage. I know it is hard being married to an attractive and susccessful guy. While he outright rebuffs sexual invitations, he has no problem with pissing me off in order to not piss off other random women.

What is your take on this? I would love to hear I am crazy and this is all in my head.

Thanks.

Markku said...

While he outright rebuffs sexual invitations, he has no problem with pissing me off in order to not piss off other random women.

That is probably because you are in the wrong and they are right. If the situation were reversed, then he'd piss off the other woman.

Daniel said...

Anonymous,

I'm sure others will be able to provide some good advice, but would you mind answering a few questions?

A) How long have you been married?
B) Are you both of the same religion? What is it?
C) Are your kids of the age where they are sleeping through the night?

If you can help with those questions, I might have a better ability to offer my opinion.

However I would say one thing that seems universally true:

When your children are very young, a husband and wife's emotional tends to be very volatile. The safest, smartest thing to do is to hunker down for the next few years into a default sanity mode. Work hard to stay on the same page in childrearing, even if you have to move your standards a bit to match his. Don't make any major life moves (or even plans for moves) if possible (moving to a new community, considering divorce, changing jobs) until all of your kids are potty trained.

If your youngest child is under the age of 18 months, give yourself the grace to be a little crazy, but concentrate on making no drastic moves in hopes that the crazy gets cured. I know it may seem like that is painting you into a corner, but it really is not. It is preventing you from getting painted further into a corner.

Finally, there are several things that I'm pretty sure you can do that could produce better results than the ones you are experiencing right now. If you can answer those questions above, I might be able to give you a few simple things to try.

Markku said...

You are confusing two logically separate things. Which is understandable, since you are a woman.

a) In principle, anything you see could be evidence that is consistent with the cheating hypothesis. When many enough coincidences coincide, then that could mean cheating.

But what does not follow this is

b) That any behavior that could be construed as such a coincidence is wrong. If he were to tell people at work to jump through ridiculous hoops simply because he has a crazy wife at home, NOBODY would respect him. That would eventually be bad for the economic future of both of you.

Markku said...

"A promotion to him? Gee, I don't know, I wonder what kind of a leader someone that pussywhipped would make. Naah, let's give it to Dick."

Vox said...

I have seen you give guidence to some guys and I was hoping you could help me because I am a women and admitedly get emotional.

Rather than fire off something immediately, I'll think about your situation and give this its own post tomorrow.

debbs aka zoegirl said...

Anon:

I don't think that you're over reacting. It appears that women in the workplace are competing for your husband and it doesn't sound like he is doing anything to put a stop to it. It's probably good for his ego.

If he's a Christian man, he should be taking the idea of avoiding the appearance of evil to heart. But, you can't make him do that by nagging. Possibly one thing that you can do is to have more of a presence in his work life. Do you have any friends with whom you can trade baby sitting so that you can meet him for lunch regularly? Or, attend any after-work socializing events with him? Be sure to introduce yourself to the other women in question...don't shy away from them or especially do not give them any idea that they have a hand up on you as that will give them fuel. And...make sure when you do show up that you look your best!

Also, when your husband accuses you of being spoiled, maybe acknowledge that (and I know it's the hardest but the best job ever) making sure that you show him often that you appreciate him for taking care of you and giving you the opportunity to be at home raising your(his) children. Most men actually don't mind 'spoiling' their wives - all they want from it is recognition that they do.

Last but not least - initiate sex often. It's a primary way that men receive the message that you desire and appreciate them.

Vox said...

One quick question that would be useful to know, Anonymous. On a scale of 1 to 10, how do you believe you and your husband rate objectively with regards to your attractiveness to the opposite sex. Right now, not when you first met or whatever.

Josh said...

anon,

what kind of work does he do?

Markku said...

"If he's a Christian man, he should be taking the idea of avoiding the appearance of evil to heart."

GAAH! That verse. People who don't know Victorian English should be reading something other than KJV.

NKJV Abstain from every form of evil.
NLT Stay away from every kind of evil.
NIV Avoid every kind of evil.
ESV Abstain from every form of evil.
NASB abstain from every *form of evil.
RSV abstain from every form of evil.
ASV abstain from every form of evil.

Josh said...

"You are confusing two logically separate things. Which is understandable, since you are a woman"

that's awesome

Nate said...

Anon..

You're jealous and insecure. It would do well for you to remember that these are problems that relate to you... not your husband. You will continue to find something to be insecure and jealous about even if he does change in this area. Thus... he is doing the exact correct thing by ignoring you.

This is a problem you have, with yourself. Your husband's behavior actually has nothing to do with it. The more he indulges your jealousy by bowing to it... the more your jealously will require. Its like a crack addiction. You eventually would get to the point where you would be mad if he simply said hello to another woman.

Pray a lot. Pray to have the spirit of jealousy removed from your heart... and whenever these feelings start to rise up.. crush them with prayer, will, and pure damned hard work.

but don't beat yourself up over it. Everyone has faults and issues to deal with. These are yours. its how you deal with them that matters.

God bless.

modernguy said...

Anon: your husband is most likely cheating on you, or has. If not, he goes to bed thinking about having sex with women other than you. And even if he's a paragon of virtue while appearing not to be, you'll never know for sure.

Josh said...

modern guy, what's your reasoning for coming to that conclusion?

modernguy said...

This kind of "logical" nonsense that a lot of men like throw in women's faces when they get hysterical just makes it worse. This woman is hysterical because her husband is in a situation of constant temptation and she senses it. Most men are going to give in sooner or later. It's no surprise she's worried. This is the lot of a woman who dares to marry an alpha after she has kids and becomes a mother. Her looks decline and her husband's eye starts to wander.

Josh said...

we have no proof that he's an alpha

modernguy said...

Josh: the guy is faced with temptation and has a "mother" at home. Women lose their looks after a couple of kids, it's just the way it is. Most men are not paragons of virtue in the face of temptation.

Markku said...

This woman is hysterical because her husband is in a situation of constant temptation and she senses it. Most men are going to give in sooner or later. It's no surprise she's worried.

As I said, the risk is there. Anybody could be cheating. But what she then goes on to do about it only makes things worse. This is obviously because she confuses the existence of the risk (which does require keeping one's eyes open), and somebody else's culpability for her own hysteria.

modernguy said...

Josh: that's true but the discussion is pointless unless he is. Is he playing a sackless game of lets-just-be-friends? Would women call him and tell his wife she's spoiled if he was?

Vox said...

Anon: your husband is most likely cheating on you, or has. If not, he goes to bed thinking about having sex with women other than you. And even if he's a paragon of virtue while appearing not to be, you'll never know for sure.

Anonymous, you would be wise to ignore everything modernguy says. He's just a bitter little anklebiter.

Daniel said...

modernguy, you don't know jack, and speculating about a woman's husband is at best, useless, when what she has come here fore is some practical help.

Emphatically asserting something that you have no clue about isn't helpful.

modernguy said...

Markku: actually if he did what she's asking him to do, and at least keep his relationships with women at work separate from his home life it would be better for him. Now that I think about it, this guy sounds oblivious. Who adds potential cheating partners to his family's face book. Either a hapless beta or a zen-level alpha.

modernguy said...

Vox Day: guardian of the light and the truth.

Markku said...

Who adds potential cheating partners to his family's face book.

"Knowing it would piss me off, but knowing that it would be more awkward to not do so, he added her and the other co-workers to our facebook page."

Can't you see how ridiculous it would have been to add the men but refuse to add the women? How would he explain it to them? "I have this wife, and she's a bit of a mental case, so please just understand. Hey, it's hard for me too."

modernguy said...

Markku: in other words, he's behaving as if compelled by social forces, even when it causes upheaval within his own family life. I was wrong, facebook is controlling this guy. Definately beta.

Markku said...

Markku: in other words, he's behaving as if compelled by social forces, even when it causes upheaval within his own family life

He IS dealing with the domestic problem by ignoring her. If the craziness persists, then maybe it is time to move to harsher methods.

Of course, if the wife's demand were a legitimate one, then the proper course of action would be to do it to those social forces. You always resist the party that is in the wrong.

Markku said...

This is how respect is gained. If in a future conflict the wife is right, and he then strongly sides with her, everybody will know that he did it because he believes in what he says, and not because he is pussywhipped. So, they will take him seriously.

modernguy said...

"He IS dealing with the domestic problem by ignoring her. If the craziness persists, then maybe it is time to move to harsher methods."

Such as?

We should take bets on how long it's going to be before he moves from one tactic to the next. Do you think ignoring her is actually going to work? This woman is acting like her whole reality is on shaky ground about to give way. How long do you think a man can withstand that kind of atmosphere?

Markku said...

Such as?

Start giving the kind of feedback that you would almost certainly call verbal abuse.

Do you think ignoring her is actually going to work?

It might. Perhaps something happens that forces her to wake up to how she is behaving like a petulant child. Or perhaps it doesn't. Then it is the husband's job to do it. It is also up to him to decide when this point comes.

modernguy said...

Verbal abuse? You think getting into a verbal war with a woman is going to make things better?

She is behaving like a petulant child because she can't trust him. Given the way he's behaving, she can't be blamed. Game if anything should at least teach us one thing: It's better to manipulate women than try to reason with them. Given that, he should try not flaunting other women in her face. If that means isolating yourself on facebook to family and close family friends, so be it.

Markku said...

Game if anything should at least teach us one thing: It's better to manipulate women than try to reason with them.

No, game gives the explanation for why your first impulse is to placate the craziness of a woman.

Nate said...

Modernguy..

You're a blithering idiot. Look at what you're saying... he should keep his work life separate? really? This shows how profoundly clueless you are. A jealous insecure woman will go crazy filling in the silence with her own psycho jealous delusions.

He is doing exactly the right thing. He should communicate with them freely and openly so she knows he has nothing to hide and isn't attempting to hide anything... and he should continue to blow her off and explain things bluntly to her.

This is a HER problem. Not a HIM problem.

Nate said...

Anon:

If I may I would recommend a book to you. Its called The Power of a Praying Wife.

Its not a book to help you change your husband. Its a book to help you change yourself.

modernguy said...

"A jealous insecure woman will go crazy filling in the silence with her own psycho jealous delusions."

Dumbass, as it is he is feeding her delusions. The best thing he can do is keep it as separate as possible and indirectly hint that he has the option of being with other women. He should contrive to keep her in a state of mild questioning doubt, not wild insecurity.

It's both their problem idiot, he has to live with her. If he married a crazy bitch, then he has to be that much more adept at handling her emotions.

You're saying that he should behave like a bull in a china shop and then say "you're crazy, why did you put all this china here!?"

JCclimber said...

This poor woman's husband is behaving like a beta. I know from having this experience the first year of marriage.

I gave up my alpha behaviors, and my wife was going crazy with the female attention I got at work, from friends, and from women at church. I kept reassuring her, blah blah blah. Using logic. The more I reassured her, the more suspicious and jealous she became.

Until I recaptured the alpha behaviors which won her heart, by amplifying and taking her accusations to extremes. "She is chasing you, I can tell she wants you." Me- "Of course she is, and so are (insert name of about 4 other women she knows). Yes, in fact, that business trip to XXX, I actually was visiting her vacation home with her, and made up some business receipts and secretly canceled my airline tickets."

That kind of thing, and over a few months, her behavior stopped. Oh, and she paid more attention to making sure my sperm banks were drained a little more often at home with her.

JCclimber said...

Thanks for derailing the comment thread.

An ex of mine has dated (but not slept with) several A-list actors and some professional sports players. It hasn't boosted her SMV a single digit in my opinion.

Since my initial assumption was that she WAS sleeping with them, her SMV took a nose-dive in my viewpoint for several years. Only when we reconnected and I found out her sexual history did her SMV go back up a little when I found out she hadn't done so.

The funny thing is that SHE is the one who used word choices to imply she was sexually active with these men, perhaps hoping to raise her SMV with me. She was quite confused that it had the opposite effect. The irony was that until that moment, I had considered the possibility of getting back together with her in the future, as she had many of the traits and looks that I liked.

Anonymous said...

Anon,

As far as a man being with women in a work environment it isn't smart to be alone with them in a place that is out of sight or hearing of other people. Try to have another person, preferably a guy, in the room as well.

This has nothing to do with him doing something wrong it has everything to do with the guy being accused of doing something that he did not do.

Athor Pel

indyguy77@work said...

JCClimber, how do you know she's not lying about it NOW to attract you more because you like lower-N-count females?

Nate said...

Modernguy...

With each post you demonstrate your idiocy more completely.

Yes. He absolutely act like a bull in a china shop.

What you fail to grasp is.. Anon actually finds her husband more attractive because of the attention that he gets.

Actually that's a poor choice of words... because that is just one of the seemingly endless list of things you fail to grasp.

You're completely clueless when it comes to women. Where as I on the other hand... have a harem. And a happy harem at that. One of the things you have to know how to deal with to get a happy harem.. is female jealousy.

eumaios said...

I have children and am a fulltime Mother, so these are very hard questions because they come from a place where upsetting the applecart, so to speak, is something to be done in only the most dire of circumstances.


Am I susposed to ignore them?

It appears I am if I am to continue in this marriage. I know it is hard being married to an attractive and susccessful guy.




Anonymous is looking to justify divorcing her husband. Which means that she has already decided to divorce him. That suggests she has not been performing her wifely duties, in any of the rooms of the house.

She talks about having an attractive and successful husband, but gives no indication that she actually finds him attractive herself. That he is attractive to other women angers her. This doesn't seem like simple jealousy. It reads more like spite, or distress that someone else values the trash she longs to throw away.

Technical note: I find it bizarre that Blogger doesn't allow blockquote tags in comments.

Josh said...

more questions for anon:

1 are you fat? did you get fat after you had kids?
2 do you regularly service your husbands sexual needs?
3 do you normally wear make up and something feminine like a dress?
4 how long is your hair?

Nate said...

eumaios

All of that sounds plausible to me, if you read the spite into it instead of simple jealousy. Generally I find that spiteful women looking to throw out the trash cannot bring themselves to compliment the relevant male, and rationalize the attractiveness off as the stupidity of the whores he's working with.

"They don't like him because anything about him is good, they like him because something is wrong with them... and nothing is wrong with me... which is why I don't like him."

I have actually had a girl say that to me before.

bitches be crazy.

bitches. be. crazy.

But I don't read Anon like that from her post. I think its just jealousy.

modernguy said...

What you fail to grasp is.. Anon actually finds her husband more attractive because of the attention that he gets.

Lol you clueless moron. This is his wife that he has to live with. She is nagging him incessantly about her insecurities. You remind of bums on the street that like to give people advice about life through a drunk stupor. Go get yourself another drink.

Nate said...

" This is his wife that he has to live with. She is nagging him incessantly about her insecurities."

Exactly. which is why I suggest that he should deal with them directly and force her to learn to control them... and accept no bitching about it.

Anything less will result in her losing respect for him.. and her insecurities getting far worse... not better.

but leave it to you to confuse the proverbial mult-millionaire with a bum on the street.

modernguy said...

"proverbial mult-millionaire" LOL. You really do sound drunk.

"...he should deal with them directly and force her to learn to control them..."

Well that's what he's doing. The result is that she doesn't trust him and her insecurities are spiraling out of control.

Josh said...

it would be quite possible that nate is indeed drinking, except for the simple fact that today is a wednesday, and nate doesn't drink on wednesdays...

Nate said...

Typical idiot gamma... always looking to save some poor woman.

Get a clue dipshit. You can't save her from herself. You can't even help her save herself.

She is the only person that can help her. If she chooses not to, she will be damning herself to a life of misery. But that is up to her. His is doing the right thing. Doing as you suggest would throw fuel on the fire.

Markku said...

We don't have a gamma guest-blogger, so Modernguy is the next best thing.

Nate said...

Amen Markku.... Amen.

modernguy said...

Yeah Markku you seem like a real "Sigma" yourself what with your harmless, lukewarm, mouse-like additions to most discussions.

Nate: I'm not looking to save her. If this guy cares about his family and wants to live in peace he's going to have to come up with a better tactic or he'll have to jettison the whole experiment. Youre arguing for stubbornness in the face of a woman's feelings. That rarely works and usually just leads to misery. With all your supposed experience you should know that women in the end always let their feelings guide them. This guy is handling a common enough situation clumsily.

JCclimber said...

@indyguy,

Well, she was very careful to respect my marriage. Also, for some reason I can read her like a book, so it would be very difficult for her to lie to me, even if she lied to herself first. It was very interesting to find out that someone who seemed so difficult to understand (along with most other women) 20 years ago, is now so transparent.

Markku said...

Americans: Take a look at In Mala Fide; Bardamu's Bookbag: All About Women. Use the "Click here to buy All About Women."

Does it allow you to buy it, or does it say "not currently available"? I'm just wondering if this is a temporary problem, or is it because I live in a country without freedom of speech.

Nate said...

Modernguy...

Do you even realize that one of the goals of game is to keep your girl jealous?

You WANT her jealous.

Now she is focusing on that to much... and yes.... he should stubbornly ignore her bitching.

Think of it like a shit test.

She is trying to control him.

If he caves.. she loses respect for him.

Stingray said...

Snowflaking anecdotal evidence: my husband gets hit on more and more as we get older. I love it, so does he. Does it make me feel a bit insecure? Eh, yeah a tiny bit. But let me tell you, if he was not completely open about these women, and I thought for one second that he was starting to hide things, separate the work from the home, then I would start to worry for real. He's done absolutely nothing wrong and has nothing to hide. Why would he separate anything when there is nothing there? To placate me? That's stupid and it's weak. I agree that this is something that she must deal with within herself.

Stingray said...

That rarely works and usually just leads to misery. With all your supposed experience you should know that women in the end always let their feelings guide them.

And when those feeling are wrong, the man should just cave and let these irrational feeling guide him as well? Not only will she then be jealous, but disgusted as well.

Giraffe said...

Works for me, Markku.

Daniel said...

modernguy - amazing that when a woman asks for advice, the only thing you can do is try to "help" her husband, who hasn't asked for a thing...

Markku's dead on: gamma-blogging at its apex.

Markku said...

Giraffe, the Amazon page opens for me but instead of the price it says "Pricing information not available." and there is no buy-button. Do you see the price too?

Stingray said...

Markku,

There is a price for the Kindle only and yes, there is a buy it now button.

Markku said...

Ok, thanks. There is obviously too much crimethink in it for them to sell it in Europe.

Stingray said...

Check that, it also says for other device. Not just the Kindle. It's $3.99

Stingray said...

Anything I can do to help it get to you?

Markku said...

Probably not. Kindle is tied to my Amazon account and therefore knows my geographic location.

Giraffe said...

Tough luck, Markku. I don't see a dead tree version.

Maybe you should move to Texas.

modernguy said...

LOL. This woman is talking about divorce and you idiots recommend staying the course. What is she really asking for? A little more respect for the boundaries. This is his wife, whom he (presumably) wants to keep, not some status seeking club slut he's trying to game.

You guys seem to think he's playing the game just right. She wants an attractive man, sure, but she also wants one devoted to her. He's letting the barbarians into the castle. All he needs to do is keep a more firm boundary between home and work. Out of sight out of mind. She's a stay at home mom with kids, what do you think she ranks compared to an office girl?

Stingray said...

Sorry Markku.

indyguy77@work said...

"It was very interesting to find out that someone who seemed so difficult to understand (along with most other women) 20 years ago, is now so transparent."

Fair enough.

But do you think it's her or you that's changed? Or both?

As I said in another thread, Game is letting me see the wheels of women turning in real time a whole lot better.

Josh said...

wow, modern guys hamster is really spinning fast here...

R. Bradley Andrews said...

Does it "look different" from each perspective whether the individual is actively cheating? Would behaviors, such as those by anon, be different in each case?

If so, what would differ? If not, how do you know what advice is correct?

I am not trying to argue the issue here, just understand the implications better.

Mortarmanmike said...

I also think modernguy is dead wrong in this. Classic shit test from an insecure wife trying to exert control. If he bends over backwards so that her precious feelings aren't hurt, the jealousy will only escalate. Before too long he'll be wearing blinders when they go out together.
How do I know this? Years ago I failed the same shit test from my ex-wife. I was young and in shape and fresh out of the Army on a college campus. I received all kinds of attention from the young firm and fertile coeds. My ex exhibited the same attitudes as Anon. I still living in a beta stupor caved. It was downhill from there. Feeding the female jelousy mouse only creates a monster. Just my .02

Markku said...

Does it "look different" from each perspective whether the individual is actively cheating? Would behaviors, such as those by anon, be different in each case?

We don't know if he is cheating. We don't know if she is cheating - it's usually the least trustworthy people that trust the least.

But what we know is that her behavior makes things worse in one scenario (the one where he doesn't cheat) and does nothing good in the other. THAT is the problem here. Not the fact that she considers it a realistic possibility.

Mortarmanmike said...

Markku nails it.
If he is not cheating - the constant jealousy and distrust will eventually destroy the marriage anyway. It gets very tiring carrying that burden. Anon is probably also exhibiting the very female trait of already convicting him in her mind. Besides being immature and childish, it is very insulting if he is not in fact cheating.

Elvis Pressley's Suspiscious Minds is not just a great toon, it packs a healthy dose of reality. Anon is caught in the suspicion trap. It is up to her to extricate herself. Any help from hubby will just worsen things.

Mortarmanmike said...

Ha, yet another female posting on a game blog something completely unrelated to the topic at hand - and the conversation becoming totally sidetracked.

It seems to me that a man's SMV will always be judged according to his options. It doesn't matter if his count is 1 or 200. If women perceive that the man can bag other high value women then his SMV is high. If all he could get was scores of low value women, his SMV will remain low. Additionally, a man-whore who gets caught tapping the lower classes will eventually lose his SMV value if he goes too low.
Hugh Grant comes to mind. In his heyday that man had mad SMV. His count could've been triple digits and the ladies wouldn't have cared less what his N was. Caught in a car with a tranny prositute dropped his SMV like a hot rock. Now granted there's a perceived financial and fame (infamy)incentive as well but the concept still applies to the non-famous.
For women, it's generally a rule as irrefuteable as gravity: there is an inverse relation between a womans N and her SMV. She can try to put lipstick on a pig all she wants but a slut is a slut.

debbs aka zoegirl said...

Markku said:

"GAAH! That verse. People who don't know Victorian English should be reading something other than KJV."

If I was referring to 1Thes 5:22, I would have said so. What I as referring to is the idea that we as Christians represent Christ. If this man is giving any indications that he is available to these women and/or if he is allowing them to talk down his own wife - giving them more respect than he gives her, he is being a very poor representative of Christ. In addition, this would make very, very close to committing adultery even if not physically but in his heart.

Adam said...

Well, here's my read on the situation. And I should state right upfront that you'll want to read Vox's take, not mine. I'm introverted and don't have a lot of experience with women.

1.) It doesn't sound like a shit test to me. A shit test is something you say to your partner, not something you write panicked, thousand word comments to strangers about. I think she's seriously worried.

2. I'm going to make some guesses as to the situation: Your husband has what we call a high sexual market rank. He's probably in decent shape, physically. If he and his colleagues are attending classes away from home, he's probably in a white collar profession; given the ratio of men to women in that class, I'm going to guess some kind of non-computer engineering. Mechanical, maybe? So he's got a high IQ, he's probably a lot of fun to talk to, and I bet he looks great in a suit. Your friends probably told you he was a "catch" when you married him, and you agreed.

3. I'm going to guess that you're not too bad looking yourself. Or you weren't, anyway. You've had kids and your looks have slid a bit. You're pretty self-conscious about it. Whether you've put on some weight you can't get rid of, you've ended up with some stretch-marks that are bothering you, or even if you're so busy taking care of the kids that you can't spend the time on makeup that you used to, you aren't feeling as pretty as you did a few years ago.

4. I'm also going to assume that there's no other serious incidents that make you think your husband is cheating, outside of what you listed. If you had found lipstick on his collar or something like that, you probably would have said so.

5. So this is my conclusion: You're instinctively aware that your husband could be doing a lot better than you, and you're afraid he is. Your anxiety is coming from the fact that if you'd had whatever physical issues you have now when he'd met you, it's likely he wouldn't have even given you the time of day.

The good news for you, is that based off of the evidence you've got, I think the way to bet is that your husband is NOT cheating on you right now. The bad news is that if you don't calm the hell down, he might very well start.

Assume for a minute that he's not cheating on you, and then look at things from his perspective. The way you wrote your post, you're practically accusing him of getting daily blowjobs under the desk from the secretary. There's a pretty well known psychological principle, and unfortunately I don't know the name of it, where if somebody accuses you constantly of something you aren't doing, eventually you're gonna want to start doing it. After a while, even the most devoted husband is gonna say "Hey, I'm getting the lectures and the crying anyway, I should at least get to rail my co-worker while I'm at it, right?"

I would cut off all the nagging about the women at work, unless you've got serious, actual proof that he's cheating on you. Instead, I'd take up a gym membership, spend some time each day on making sure you look your best, and try to make home as welcoming an environment as possible. No matter what happens, you'll feel better about yourself if you do.

Hope this helps to provide a different perspective.

modernguy said...

There's a fine line between keeping your woman on edge and making her go crazy with insecurity. Not everything is a shit test. This guy is not walking that line, he's making her go crazy with insecurity. Even men who cheat don't go out of their way to flaunt it. Would you add your mistress to your family's facebook? So why do it if you're not cheating? Furthermore, there are reasons married people generally don't socialize with single people.

Markku said...

"he outright rebuffs sexual invitations"

Wow, SUCH FLAUNTING!!!

Nate said...

zoegirl...

You're mistaken.

JCclimber said...

modernguy, you are truly clueless.

Her problem is her insecurity. His problem is that he doesn't know the proper way to handle himself to decrease her insecurity. All your advice will backfire and increase her insecurity, it seems as if you are a Gamma engineer with zero understanding of women.

Or you're still in your 20's and have zero understanding of women. It's blatantly obvious that you've never had to deal with a woman's irrational jealousy. Or at least that you haven't ever successfully handled it.

Anonymous said...

Hi, I am the worried wife and I will try to set the record straight. I was not able to get online until very late tonight. I am very grateful for everyone who tried to offer advice. Thank you Vox for allowing me to ask the questions. I apologize if this has been a tresspass of blog ettiquette.

1. This is not a shit test and I thought I got that across in stating that rocking the boat is not something I want to do. I have no gainful employment (thought I did and it was skilled and I still have that skill but of course not the networking etc) and children. I am not in anyway looking to dump my Husband because he pissed me off. This is behavior that has been a problem since the beginning. It is nothing compared to the crap he pulled in the past, but the lack of trust is because he was untrustworthy in the past. Not actual cheating (at least as far as I know) but shady behavior.

2. I took your Market Value Test for my Husband and he scored (I had to guess on some things like IQ and I answered some questions how he approached me)a 15. I didn't even both doing my test because I have read here before. I am overweight, but working hard on it and it should be dealt with shortly here. But I have everything else in order now (regarding appearence) but I understand according to your articles and stuff that appearence, intelligence and character do not matter regarding sexual attraction if I am chubby. I get it, it can't be dealt with overnight but I am doing my best. In fact, I have called him on sabatoging me and he is now being much more supportive. You would think that he would have done it from the beginning.

I just wanted to post this quick. I am going to look to answer the other questions since everyone was kind enough to answer me.
Thanks,
The Worried Wife

Anonymous said...

Hi Daniel, thank you for your time.

1. We have been married about 15 years now.

2. I am a Christian. He claims to be, he became one when we both believed in the whole "ask Jesus into your heart and you are saved thing" so he has not been baptized, does not read the Bible, does not go to church etc. He does not limiit himself in ways I would (watching things, talking about things, etc that I find offensive based on my relgion. If I won't watch with him he just watches by himself. Sorry, I cannot stomache Saw LOL).

3 We still have a young child who is learning to sleep through the night, but mostly does.

Thank you for offering your advice.

Worried Wife

Anonymous said...

Markku,

For sure this is his point of view. I am in the wrong. I am basically always in the wrong according to him :) However, according to my religion, he is in the wrong and there should be boundaries that I have asked him to respect and he has promised to in the past. He claims I keep moving them. I claim he should stop doing stupid things that look like his is interested to other women who are not his wife.

He does not do these things to me. Why they hell does he give all his charm, witt and fun away all day to everyone else and tell me to leave him alone so he can decompress...every...day.

So yeah, he sees it as great. He sees people cheating on their spouses everyday so to him he is a saint.

Yet, I am to conduct myself with the up most care.

Worried Wife

Markku said...

I suspect that much of the problem here is that you haven't been in an office environment yourself, and you genuinely have no idea about how preposterous the things you are demanding are. Your husband couldn't make them to innocent coworkers with a straight face.

Anonymous said...

You are confusing two logically separate things. Which is understandable, since you are a woman.

a) In principle, anything you see could be evidence that is consistent with the cheating hypothesis. When many enough coincidences coincide, then that could mean cheating.

But what does not follow this is

b) That any behavior that could be construed as such a coincidence is wrong. If he were to tell people at work to jump through ridiculous hoops simply because he has a crazy wife at home, NOBODY would respect him. That would eventually be bad for the economic future of both of you.

Markku,

You are right. The problem IS that he is exhibiting behavior to me that is the type of behavior a man does when cheating AND it is my belief that he leads these women on which is why they become hostile to me. This happens ALL THE DAMM TIME. I meet a women who he knows or met first (like the wife in a couple) and they are downright nasty to me. Because he acts with EVERY OTHER WOMEN BUT ME the way he acted with ME before we were married.

So while I don't have evidence that he is actually nailing these women, the problem is it is my opinion that he should treat ME special instead of every other freaken chick in his orbit.

He thinks that because he financially supports us and runs errands and spends his time off work with us (which I very much appreciate) that is all he has to do. But he listens to these other women's problems, tells them jokes, helps them win stuff in contests, goes out to lunch with them.
He also had a "friendship" that crossed the line and I left him over many years ago. He claims there was no physical contact and he would talk to her in front of me on the phone. But he also would go to her house and hang out with her and her boyfriend. I never knew this. He went and picked her up and went running with her ALONE. I demanded he not go and he left me home alone and went running with her.

He said I should just trust him. BS. I left his ass and he took her boyfriend out to a game. Then his family talked to him and he came to his senses.

Other stupid stuff has happened since.

I am not being a prima donna here.

Worried Wife

Anonymous said...

Markku: in other words, he's behaving as if compelled by social forces, even when it causes upheaval within his own family life


I don't understand, a man is not to have any boundaries in his social conduct? As long as he has not consummated a relationship it is me who is off the deep end?

WW

Markku said...

You are right. The problem IS that he is exhibiting behavior to me that is the type of behavior a man does when cheating AND it is my belief that he leads these women on which is why they become hostile to me.

Or, you are already seeing the consequences of your own behavior. The only way he could possibly make these demands is by at least implying if not outright saying that you have some serious issues.

Anonymous said...

Debs,

Thank you for responding.

Sexually I have it covered. I am available 24/7 and intiate often. Twice a day, except during my cycle, is the norm. I cannot believe I am writing this to a stranger but I surely would never say so to anyone else in my life. So be it.

I agree with what you have said, my problem with the situation is that I believe, as a women, that he is leading them on. Yes, he isn't doing anything physically with them but he is doing things with them emotionally. That is my issue.

Markku said...

I don't understand, a man is not to have any boundaries in his social conduct? As long as he has not consummated a relationship it is me who is off the deep end?

Yes, and those boundaries go along sexual behavior, which you yourself have said he already enforces. Wider boundaries inconvenience other people who are innocent to your own issues. And it is your husband who then has to apologize for your behavior.

Anonymous said...

Nate,

I am insecure because I have had my trust breached more then once.

Here are just a few examples...
1. His phone butt calls me on a trip with his friends. This is after I spoke with him and he said he was going to bed. I then get to listen to them in a club. He claims that he was asked to go after speaking with me and felt no need to let me know. Great, but it sure did feel like a slap in the face to listen in to that.

2. Found txts from a family friend (who I have met once) with a filthy "joke" on it. He never responded to it. He feels this was the right thing to do. He used to talk to this women on the phone all the time.

3. See above regarding friend. He used to always be friends with women. Bring them home for us all to be friends. The women would be very nasty to me in front of him (I mean, can you blame her...she was probably like what the hell) and then was shocked when I pointed out that it is NOT NORMAL to befriend single women at work and bring them home to take them on a date with you wife.
This hasn't happened since I left him a few years back. Thank God. He still claims innocence and that he was just friends.

The point is that it doesn't look like that to OTHER women.

I honestly don't know if he was clueless when he was younger or was hoping I was.

WW

Anonymous said...

Markku said...
I don't understand, a man is not to have any boundaries in his social conduct? As long as he has not consummated a relationship it is me who is off the deep end?

Yes, and those boundaries go along sexual behavior, which you yourself have said he already enforces. Wider boundaries inconvenience other people who are innocent to your own issues. And it is your husband who then has to apologize for your behavior.

Markku,

You don't get what I am saying. To me, a man taking someone to run ALONE, talking to them on the phone and telling his wife it is about work when they do NOT work together (just for the same company) is exhibiting cheating behavior. Why ELSE would he do this? If he doesn't want to cheat why do this?

I was not looking for these fights.

WW

Anonymous said...

modernguy said...
This kind of "logical" nonsense that a lot of men like throw in women's faces when they get hysterical just makes it worse. This woman is hysterical because her husband is in a situation of constant temptation and she senses it. Most men are going to give in sooner or later. It's no surprise she's worried. This is the lot of a woman who dares to marry an alpha after she has kids and becomes a mother. Her looks decline and her husband's eye starts to wander.


My problem is because he seems to enjoy dipping his toes in the water, gets caught and then pulls the "your crazy" bs. I just don't have it in me to deal with his need to be every other women's best friend.

WW

Anonymous said...

I think you should just divorce him. There's no reason to tolerate his behavior.

Anonymous said...

JCClimber,

My problem is, in a nutshell, that my Husband behaves like a very aloof Alpha with me and a Beta/Alpha combo with everyone else.

WW

Markku said...

You don't get what I am saying. To me, a man taking someone to run ALONE, talking to them on the phone and telling his wife it is about work when they do NOT work together (just for the same company) is exhibiting cheating behavior. Why ELSE would he do this? If he doesn't want to cheat why do this?

Possibly she asked for some advice with a project of hers. Perhaps it even was just an excuse to get to talk to him. But he doesn't know that. One gives people the benefit of doubt. It's the same company, so he couldn't reasonably refuse to give advice.

Or perhaps he IS cheating, although I see no reason to think so. But it is not helping to start protesting it in either case. If he is innocent, then you are accusing him when he did the right thing. If he is guilty, then he now knows about your suspicions and will be able to cheat better.

If you suspect cheating, you don't reveal your cards. You let him or her think you are oblivious to it, while waiting and seeing if these things seem to always point to a particular member of the opposite sex.

Anonymous said...

Josh said...
more questions for anon:

1 are you fat? did you get fat after you had kids?
2 do you regularly service your husbands sexual needs?
3 do you normally wear make up and something feminine like a dress?
4 how long is your hair?

1. Yes. This behavior started the second we were married and I was no where near fat. I am simply chubby and working off a baby belly, but it is there and I acknowledge it.

2. Yes. Answered above.

3. Yes, but he gives me crap about it.

4. Past shoulders and growing longer.

WW

Anonymous said...

Stingray said...
Snowflaking anecdotal evidence: my husband gets hit on more and more as we get older. I love it, so does he. Does it make me feel a bit insecure? Eh, yeah a tiny bit. But let me tell you, if he was not completely open about these women, and I thought for one second that he was starting to hide things, separate the work from the home, then I would start to worry for real. He's done absolutely nothing wrong and has nothing to hide. Why would he separate anything when there is nothing there? To placate me? That's stupid and it's weak. I agree that this is something that she must deal with within herself.

Stingray,

I have no problem with people hitting on him. I have a problem with how he handles it. I get hit on. I handle it so they know that I am taken and that is the end of it.

The problem is why give the idea you are interested if you are not?

WW

Anonymous said...

Improve your appearance, ignore his behavior, make some male friends. If he isn't cheating he'll pay you more attention, and if he is then you'll be in a better position for finding a new man.

Nate said...

WW

Your examples reinforce my conclusion that you are in fact making yourself crazy over nothing.

First... let me start by saying I am happily married and have been for 15 years. I have been exclusively with the same woman for going on 19 years.

Now... You are over reacting to nothing. Let me repeat. NOTHING.

Here are a few tips:

1) Your husband is not here to live up to your standards. and from what you've said here... he's smart because your standards are insane.

2) You are greatly confused about Christianity. biblically speaking.. if dear hubby wants another wife.. he can take one and there isn't a damned thing you can say about it. I suggest you hope he doesn't read the bible much.

3) I am repeating myself here in the interest of clarity. Your husband has done nothing wrong. These behaviors that have you offended are not offense worthy. You need to settle the fuck down.

Now... Where your husband isn't treating you like you want to be treated. You feel he is taking you for granted. These things are legit complaints. So my first question is... how do you treat him? The hill women say you have to treat a man like he already IS what you want him to become. You treat him like a king, so he then lives up to that treatment.

Again... I cannot recommend that book strongly enough.

Get a copy of The Power of the Praying Wife... and read it. Tonight.

Then... make your husband a great meal... doll yourself up... and be happy. Men love being around happy women and hate being around bitchy women. So make yourself be happy.

There is a good chance your husband is treating you like crap because he is displeased with some major aspect of your marriage. Not fair in my opinion but it happens. That said... he's not here so I can't offer him any advice. I can only help you. And you need to change you. Let him worry about him.

Anonymous said...

modernguy said...
LOL. This woman is talking about divorce and you idiots recommend staying the course. What is she really asking for? A little more respect for the boundaries. This is his wife, whom he (presumably) wants to keep, not some status seeking club slut he's trying to game.

You guys seem to think he's playing the game just right. She wants an attractive man, sure, but she also wants one devoted to her. He's letting the barbarians into the castle. All he needs to do is keep a more firm boundary between home and work. Out of sight out of mind. She's a stay at home mom with kids, what do you think she ranks compared to an office girl?


This is basically it. I want to be respected as his wife. He is respected as my Husband. I can't be told "don't you trust me" when you don't act trustworthy.

And I have worked with all men, mixed and all women. I have never had an issue with people hitting on me, I was polite and firm and then we had a lovely business relationship. If they tried again, I ignored them.

How am I some fantastical irrational women to want that? If he cuts it so close with his boundaries in front of me how do I know he maintains them when I am not there?

I frankly don't have time for games anymore.

WW

Anonymous said...

debbs aka zoegirl said...
Markku said:

"GAAH! That verse. People who don't know Victorian English should be reading something other than KJV."

If I was referring to 1Thes 5:22, I would have said so. What I as referring to is the idea that we as Christians represent Christ. If this man is giving any indications that he is available to these women and/or if he is allowing them to talk down his own wife - giving them more respect than he gives her, he is being a very poor representative of Christ. In addition, this would make very, very close to committing adultery even if not physically but in his heart.

DING DING DING ! THIS IS WHAT I MEAN!

WW

Anonymous said...

Adam,

Mostly yes to all except 4. Other incidents is why we agreed there would be respect and boundaries. He doesn't like me holding him to that because someone ELSE might not like it.

I think he should care more about what I think about it.

That is it in a nut shell.

WW

Markku said...

The running alone with a female coworker is the only part that raises the eyebrow a little bit, of all those examples. It couldn't reasonably be called a breach of trust, but it might be grounds to keep an eye on that one, just in case.

Anonymous said...

Debs,

I appreciate your comments. Yes they are competing for him. I think that he should make them aware he is not available instead of enjoying the attention and joining in the fun.

I do appreciate being a stay at home wife. I do not appreciate the shit I get about it because I have it so much easier then the chicks he knows. I think it is ridiculous to take anything that they say at face value about how hard they have it AND I worked hard to get where I am. That he would say that to me is very upsetting. I have done nothing but be grateful and put my heart and soul and body into our family. To be criticised in that manner was very hurtful and was BEFORE this incident.

Sexually I do whatever he wants whenever he wants it. Well, almost whatever. I am a Christian and I don't share.

WW.

Markku said...

A quote from Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis:

The function of the husband is to see that this natural preference of hers is not given its head. He has the last word in order to protect other people from the intense family patriotism of the wife. If anyone doubts this, let me ask a simple question. If your dog has bitten the child next door, or if your child has hurt the dog next door, which would you sooner have to deal with, the master of that house or the mistress? Or, if you are a married woman, let me ask you this question. Much as you admire your husband, would you not say that his chief failing is his tendency not to stick up for his rights and yours against the neighbours as vigorously as you would like? A bit of an Appeaser?

Nate said...

" I can't be told "don't you trust me" when you don't act trustworthy."

Your definition of untrustworthy is insane.

Listen carefully... delta men (which are probably 80% of all men) take no for an answer. Women don't. The more firmly he puts up barriers... the more the women will hit on him.

You're simply being crazy and need to accept that fact.

I regularly spend the night if not whole weekends with hot female friends. I don't sleep with them. This doesn't bother my wife. She trusts me. Because she trusts me.. I don't want to abuse that trust.

I am constantly flirted with..and I literally cannot talk to a woman... any woman... without flirting with her. I have no idea how to talk to a woman without it. Honestly. And yet everyone knows that I cherrish my wife and honour her.

but hey... my wife isn't even the slightest bit insecure. In fact.. I'm going on a cruise for 7 days with another chick in march.

Ya think she'll be sitting at home worried sick that I am sleeping around?

Of course not.

Now is this because of ME? Or because of HER?

Anonymous said...

Nate said...
WW

Your examples reinforce my conclusion that you are in fact making yourself crazy over nothing.

First... let me start by saying I am happily married and have been for 15 years. I have been exclusively with the same woman for going on 19 years.

Now... You are over reacting to nothing. Let me repeat. NOTHING.

Here are a few tips:

1) Your husband is not here to live up to your standards. and from what you've said here... he's smart because your standards are insane.

2) You are greatly confused about Christianity. biblically speaking.. if dear hubby wants another wife.. he can take one and there isn't a damned thing you can say about it. I suggest you hope he doesn't read the bible much.

3) I am repeating myself here in the interest of clarity. Your husband has done nothing wrong. These behaviors that have you offended are not offense worthy. You need to settle the fuck down.

Now... Where your husband isn't treating you like you want to be treated. You feel he is taking you for granted. These things are legit complaints. So my first question is... how do you treat him? The hill women say you have to treat a man like he already IS what you want him to become. You treat him like a king, so he then lives up to that treatment.

Again... I cannot recommend that book strongly enough.

Get a copy of The Power of the Praying Wife... and read it. Tonight.

Then... make your husband a great meal... doll yourself up... and be happy. Men love being around happy women and hate being around bitchy women. So make yourself be happy.

There is a good chance your husband is treating you like crap because he is displeased with some major aspect of your marriage. Not fair in my opinion but it happens. That said... he's not here so I can't offer him any advice. I can only help you. And you need to change you. Let him worry about him.

Nate,

Thank you for your advice. Did you say you have a harem? I appreciate what you have said.

WW

Markku said...

Nate:
honour

You crazy old Brit, you.

Tally ho and pip pip pip!

Anonymous said...

Nate said...
" I can't be told "don't you trust me" when you don't act trustworthy."

Your definition of untrustworthy is insane.

Listen carefully... delta men (which are probably 80% of all men) take no for an answer. Women don't. The more firmly he puts up barriers... the more the women will hit on him.

You're simply being crazy and need to accept that fact.

I regularly spend the night if not whole weekends with hot female friends. I don't sleep with them. This doesn't bother my wife. She trusts me. Because she trusts me.. I don't want to abuse that trust.

I am constantly flirted with..and I literally cannot talk to a woman... any woman... without flirting with her. I have no idea how to talk to a woman without it. Honestly. And yet everyone knows that I cherrish my wife and honour her.

but hey... my wife isn't even the slightest bit insecure. In fact.. I'm going on a cruise for 7 days with another chick in march.

Ya think she'll be sitting at home worried sick that I am sleeping around?

Of course not.

Now is this because of ME? Or because of HER?


Ok if any of what you said is true I don't want your advice. Sorry, my Husband would do a backflip if I went on a cruise with another man and he ain't going on one with another girl either.

To Paraphase Chris Rock "Married people cannot have friends of the opposite sex. A "friend" in that case is just someone you have not fu*&$# yet."

You seem to love to dance with chance there my friend.

I am not stupid enough to shack up with both opportunity and temptation. And unless your with a family member, you can get tempted.

WW

Nate said...

"
Thank you for your advice. Did you say you have a harem? I appreciate what you have said."

I do have a harem. Ask Spacebunny. She's in it. Stickwick and Stingray would be in it too but I haven't accepted any applications in a long time.

Seriously buddy... The Power of a Praying Wife. Written by a Christian woman of great faith to help Christian women of faith.

Anonymous said...

Vox, appologies to the thread jacking. I am getting weepy here and really don't want to embaress myself anymore then I already have.

Thanks in advance for the advice. I hope you don't skewer me too badly, but then again I would be honored if you did LOL.

WW

Nate said...

"I am not stupid enough to shack up with both opportunity and temptation. And unless your with a family member, you can get tempted."

You shouldn't project your own weakness and insecurity onto others dear girl.

My point is... his behavior is not the problem. Your perception is. You cannot control him. You can only control you.

If you're looking for permission to leave him.. you're damned sure not going to find it here.

Anonymous said...

Nate said...
"
Thank you for your advice. Did you say you have a harem? I appreciate what you have said."

I do have a harem. Ask Spacebunny. She's in it. Stickwick and Stingray would be in it too but I haven't accepted any applications in a long time.

Seriously buddy... The Power of a Praying Wife. Written by a Christian woman of great faith to help Christian women of faith.



I read the freakin book Nate about ten years ago when I was praying for him to become a Christian and stop bringing "friends" home. Ok.

If the results are that my Husband thinks it is ok to go on a cruise with or spend the weekend with other women I will never touch it again.

WW

Nate said...

Hey.... the cruise was my wife's idea.

and if you read it 10 years ago... why are you acting so ridiculous now?

Anonymous said...

Nate said...
"I am not stupid enough to shack up with both opportunity and temptation. And unless your with a family member, you can get tempted."

You shouldn't project your own weakness and insecurity onto others dear girl.

My point is... his behavior is not the problem. Your perception is. You cannot control him. You can only control you.

If you're looking for permission to leave him.. you're damned sure not going to find it here.



I do not want to leave him. I love him. I am committed to him.

However, for someone who demands I trust him he does a lot to make it appear he is untrustworthy. And just how long does someone go "gee, that was unlucky, I am sure it meant nothing." Before you go "gee, she should have really seen that coming."

Again, your values are quite different then mine. I am not saying I would cheat if given the opportunity. I am saying I do not even give myself the opportunity nor require my Husband need to take leaps of faith while I appear to be doing something I shouldn't.

I do not beleive marriage should be a white knuckle experience. He trusts me because I have always been trustworthy and conducted myself aboveboard. I have enough going on in my life. This really should be a moot point.

I guess you find my idea of marriage as strange as I find yours. Such is life and to each his own and all that.

WW

Nate said...

Markku

Silly fin. We southrons use the Oxford dictionary.. not that damned yankee webster. That's why many of my so-called mispellings are not in fact. For example... Favour.. Honour.. Colour... all of these are proper english spellings.

rycamor said...

Look guys... I am generally in agreement with the 'man' side of the discussion in this blog, but I suspect unmarried, recovering delta/gammas like Markku are not the best ones to ask about this situation. I don't mean it as a slight, Markku, but you have admitted to gamma tendencies in the past. And logical engineer-type guys like you tend to look at a situation with your newfound knowledge and apply The Formula strictly by the book.

And Nate... well Nate is in a category all his own. He sort of lives in a world most can't live in, and that's just the fact of the matter. I can't judge, not knowing him or his wife personally, but some of the behavior he engages in I would not trust MYSELF with, much less expect my wife to. Maybe he has iron willpower, and if so, good for him.

Yes, I agree that for far, far too long in our culture (and especially in the Christian version of our culture) men have taken a hugely unfair share of the blame for relationship problems. And far too often these men have wilted under that pressure and sheepishly acquiesced to that blame.

But by God a man needs to give a woman *some* comfort in a relationship. I think the key thing most guys here are missing is not that her husband is charming with the ladies at work, but that he does not put any effort into being charming with his wife at home. That's the real problem here. A key point of wisdom available in the Game blogs: both Alpha and Beta behaviors are necessary in a long-term relationship.

Dear Anon, Try going to Athol's blog (www.marriedmansexlife.com) and asking your question there. Athol Kay does a good job explaining the alpha/beta thing in relationships. He is very good at coming up with practical steps you can take. While his blog is mainly aimed at helping men, he has offered some spectacular advice to women also.

Now before the men here pile on me, I absolutely agree that nagging him or going psycho is not a way to fix anything. There are ways to entreat his favor and ways to reinforce the behavior you want rather than the behavior you don't. Think along those lines. And of course, the final red pill that must be taken by both sexes is simply this: you are responsible for YOU. You can't fix your spouse. You can only be the best you can be, and make the wisest choices in how to elicit the best from your other. There is no guarantee of success, but anything else is pretty much a guarantee of failure.

Markku said...

but you have admitted to gamma tendencies in the past.

That would be about 15 years ago.

Markku said...

As for Vox, I would expect him to be blunt but not gratuitously cruel with his response. THAT seems to be reserved to people who ask or comment in a somewhat different way.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Rycamor, it wouldn't hurt me in the least if I was the Belle of the Ball to him. But when your Husband is listening to other women and helping them and then short tempered with you because he is done giving emotional support for the day..what is the point?

How about I hop around with my boobs out and dress sexy and cook other guys dinner and come home, tell him to make his own and start picking my nose and farting. THEN get pissed at him because these guys keep calling me to make them dinner and I tell him I am too busy to make him any. OR I don't tell him they are calling at all?

Rycamore, I don't want to ask the other blogger because he is an Atheist. I do read his stuff and have made changes. I am doing all I can. There is only so long you can be the only one making the effort here. I am not asking for perfection I am asking for being exclusive.

I am the only women in his life NOT getting the best from him. Trust me EVERYONE loves him. I get the dregs and I am susposed to be overjoyed that once again I get to watch him be charming and sweet with SOMEONE else.

You guys tell me..you all talk about how much women talk. Do YOU listen to other women talk? Do you walk around complimenting them and buddy buddying them to death?

Don't most guys do that in exchange for doing sexual things with their wife? Why would you do that with a women you are NOT having sex with? I don't even want to do that with another women and I am one.

How many times do I have to point it out? I don't want to nag. I am not stupid. I also don't want to constantly point out the obvious to the leader of our family.

I mean, if my child kept buring their hand over and over on the stove I would begin to think we have some serious problems, no?

WW

Nate said...

"Maybe he has iron willpower, and if so, good for him."

Eh... its not will power. I just had gotten laid so much by the time I was 18 that I honestly wasn't impressed by new pussy anymore. I had my first threesome before I was 14 and it was with blonde twins. Seriously. I'm not easily impressed anymore.
People will think this is bragging. Its not. I'm not proud of this. Again I was a christian at the time. I continually prayed for the strength to resist these temptations and for forgiveness... then went right out and sinned all over again the next day.

Its sickening... but its real.

its also entirely over. I've walked that walk and now I have no need to walk it again. I still love sex... and I have it all the time. With my wife. She knows I can get it elsewhere anytime with damned near anyone I want. She digs that I come to her and only her out of choice. I've had it all... but I picked her to keep.

So in reality the opportunity is always there. I think that's why she understands that going on a cruise with some chick or staying at a friend's place isn't a problem. She knows there is never a time when the opportunity isn't there... so these times of exaggerated opportunity are really only illusions.

If I want to cheat on her I don't need to go on a cruise to do it. I can just go down and pick up the cute 20 year old barrel racer girl at tractor supply and get a bj in the shed out front. Seriously she already offered. I don't because I've been there and done that.. and found it empty. So instead I pat her on the head and tell her she'll make someone a good wife one day when she's figures a few things out.

My wife understands this... and knows that I am not into empty these days.

Anonymous said...

Markku said...
As for Vox, I would expect him to be blunt but not gratuitously cruel with his response. THAT seems to be reserved to people who ask or comment in a somewhat different way.


I trust him to say "He is banging them, get out now" or "your crazy, stop" or something in between.

I basically expect him to tell me to lose weight. But like I said, this all started, much worse then this, when I was young and hot.

And the hotter I tried to be, the more he stayed away from me. Go figure.

I wish I was a drinker, this would all be easier LOL.

WW

rycamor said...

That would be about 15 years ago.

Fair enough. I was there myself a few times in my youth. My point is, you are not married, am I right? And you do tend to be a rather cut-and-dry problem-solver, which has its benefits for sure, but engineering-type minds can often miss the forest for the trees.

She is throwing up the trees of his behavior with others, but it's really about his behavior with her. That's the problem.

I think various men and women have a tendency to regard a marriage as a done deal, and thus no need to continue pursuing their spouse. In some marriages it is the men who don't bother to charm their wives anymore. In some marriages it is the women who don't bother to keep themselves fit and feminine. Either is a mistake. But no matter who is to blame, the other partner can't fix it by nagging (in the wife's case) or making a logical argument (in the man's case). That's why the answer always comes down to: better yourself, and work on eliciting better behavior from the other, rather than demanding it.

Anonymous said...

That is lovely Nate that you are zen Master.

But common sense dictates that not everyone else is.

And that if you keep sticking your hand in the cookie jar you are going to get a cookie. And if you get the damm cookie in your hand, telling your wife it is because you were simply moving the cookies around so they looked better isn't going to cut it.

How about you keep your hand out if you ain't aiming to eat one.

WW

Markku said...

I am the only women in his life NOT getting the best from him. Trust me EVERYONE loves him. I get the dregs and I am susposed to be overjoyed that once again I get to watch him be charming and sweet with SOMEONE else.

This is a legitimate problem, but it can't be dealt with until we get all the bullshit out of the way. He is probably in a leadership position from what I gather. In that position, you HAVE to be charming. But it's nearly always all fake, and very taxing to do for an entire day. That's why at the end of the day he'll want to be the real him for a change.

You have your emotional needs, however, and he cannot afford to just let it completely go. But the way to go about it is to ask more for yourself and not less for others. As long as the issue is connected with unreasonable demands that also inconvenience other people, he WILL remain resistant.

Anonymous said...

Rycamor, you almost got it.

Not only is the behavior with me the problem. The main problem is he is giving the behavior he should ONLY give to me to everyone else.

If I was only going to get what everyone else does, why did I get married?

And if everyone else is going to get from my Husband better then I do (in this ONE VERY IMPORTANT AREA) what is the point?

Listen, I worked with guys. If a guys was fliriting with you it was a direct slap in the face of his wife. If he did it in FRONT of her, he had NO respect for her whatsoever. And then neither did the women he did it with.

He is actually spitting in his wife's face and inviting the other women to.

WW

Nate said...

Silly girl. this is what you cannot grasp...

The is no cookie jar. Cookies are everywhere. They cannot be avoided. Thus one cannot be said to be seeking them out. There is no point where what you would call temptation is not present. The only reason I brought myself up was to offer perspective to your over-reactions. if your husband is the attractive male you think he is... then you have no idea what all is being thrown at him and you'd crap yourself if you did.

I suggest you consider what I said about the female reaction to rejection vs the male reaction.

You want your husband to shut these women down.

I tell you honestly it doesn't work like that. Attempting to shut them down will only make him more attractive and more of a challenge to them. It will have a much worse effect than you think.

Your experience with male coworkers is completely irrelevant because... newsflash... men and women are not even close to the same.

Again... I agree that your complaints about your husband's treatment of you are legitimate. But your complaints of his behavior with other women are irrational and wrong headed. If he took your advice things would get worse on all fronts. Not better.

Now... what if your husband didn't change his behavior with the other women... but treated you way better? Honoured you in ways that made it obvious to everyone that you were his cherished helpmeet?

Would you still be jealous?

Nate said...

"And if everyone else is going to get from my Husband better then I do (in this ONE VERY IMPORTANT AREA) what is the point?"

THAN dammit. "THAN I do" Then and Than are different damned words.

Anonymous said...

Markku,

The needs he is meeting has nothing to do with work.

I am not pissed he was studying with people. I am pissed that he went off alone with another women and study with just her when there were 20 other guys he could have chosen from.

I am not pissed a women called him. I am pissed that once again, someone he does not work with is calling him, asking him for advice and speaking in a tone similar to a sex operator when she talks to him.


WW

rycamor said...

Eh... its not will power. I just had gotten laid so much by the time I was 18 that I honestly wasn't impressed by new pussy anymore. I had my first threesome before I was 14 and it was with blonde twins. Seriously. I'm not easily impressed anymore.

Heh, I figured it was something like that, and honestly, from across a great divide, I do understand it. I was the guy who did manage to stay celibate until marriage (even while pursued by a fair few females) and I'm not sure I could do it again if I had the chance, but I truly believed it was the right thing to do as a Christian; what I did was never to allow myself to get in a situation where I was close to a girl I didn't consider marriage material. And... I had a damn hard time finding anyone I considered marriage material. Living in South Florida should have been my first clue...

But since I have the background I have, temptation holds a completely different glow than it does with someone like you, unfortunately. I was completely unprepared for the fact that a 45-year-old man can still be a target for 20-something girls in the workplace. But yes, I do know that it is empty. I have hung around enough players to see that, so I gladly stay my course.

As for the polygamy thing... don't forget that most Christian married men made a vow to forsake all others. I regard a vow as not to be taken lightly; even if the person making it didn't acquaint himself with all the possibilities, that's still his responsibility, not God's.

Markku said...

you are not married, am I right? And you do tend to be a rather cut-and-dry problem-solver

Yes.

This should not be taken as an admission of your point, though.

Anonymous said...

Would you still be jealous?


No because it would be obvious to everyone that I was who he preferred over everyone else and that he was just being nice to them.

I once was at my first day at work and a new co-worker was trying to talk to me. He was a male and was indicating he was very interested in me. I was steering the conversation elsewhere and it wasn't getting through to him.

My Husband walked up unexpectedly behind him and I smiled at him. My co-worker whistled and said "Who are you looking at and how do I get you to look at me like that?"

I said "My Husband!" And he never hit on me again (of course, my Husband was much bigger and hotter then him). My point is, when he saw how I felt about my Husband, it didn't matter what he offered me, he knew I would never be interested.

Now this is what happens to me. I am the male co-worker and the person in my Husband's place is...well..anyone else.

WW

Nate said...

"Listen, I worked with guys. If a guys was fliriting with you it was a direct slap in the face of his wife. If he did it in FRONT of her, he had NO respect for her whatsoever. And then neither did the women he did it with."

For the 1000th time... men and women are different.

You are jumping to conclusions no one else jumps to. Some guys flirt with other women BECAUSE they love their wives and want to keep them. For Fucks Sake you're on a Game Blog. Don't you know that one of the axims of Game is to make your girl jealous?

its right there in the axims. Thou Shalt Flirt With Other Women!

Honestly... I hope Vox has better luck getting through to you. At this point your hampster is totally going ape shit.

Anonymous said...

Nate, I get your point about females. I really do.

WW

Anonymous said...

Well then Nate, I admit I am typing here at my very worst. I am embaressed. I can't even spell. I am humilated to the point where I am even doing this.

I shall not get emotional. I shall tire him sexually to the point where he is unable to walk. I shall ignore it when others hit on him.

Let me see. I shall also get myself back together.

I got it. I do. Wish I didn't have this stupid heart of mine. It gets in the way of rationality.

I thank all of you who have taken the time to talk to me.

I really do.

It isn't anything I could talk to anyone in real life about.

Thanks.

WW

rycamor said...

Nate says:

I tell you honestly it doesn't work like that. Attempting to shut them down will only make him more attractive and more of a challenge to them. It will have a much worse effect than you think.

Ain't that the truth. All an attractive married guy has to do to verify that is walk by the 3 younger women in the hallway, and when they giggle, hold up his ring finger and say "sorry ladies..."

Anon says:
Rycamor, you almost got it.

Not only is the behavior with me the problem. The main problem is he is giving the behavior he should ONLY give to me to everyone else.


Which would you prefer: him to be equally charmless with you and the ladies at work, or him to be both charming with them and you, but have sex, children, and family only with you? I say forget about them, and focus on you and him. And Athol may be an atheist, but he is about the kindest atheist you will ever meet, and happens to be quite sympathetic to the Christian side, too. Don't be so quick to dismiss.

Anonymous said...

Nate,

Quick question. Are you saying he is gaming me?

If so, is he doing it well?

If not, is there anything I can do to improve the situation?

Thanks,
WW

Anonymous said...

Good point Rycamore.

I shall look more to me.

So you are agreeing with my Husband then.

WW

Nate said...

"No because it would be obvious to everyone that I was who he preferred over everyone else and that he was just being nice to them."

Now we're getting somewhere.

here you have admitted that your problem is not with his treatment of the other women... but with his treatment of YOU.

This is akin to jealousy but its not the same thing.

You're feeling neglected. Perhaps rightfully I have no idea. See if you were being treated better... you would have a different level of alarm for jealousy.

So now that we have established that it is not how your husband behaves at work, but how he behaves at home that is the problem... we can now move forward.

rycamor said...

Good point Rycamore.

I shall look more to me.

So you are agreeing with my Husband then.


Not necessarily. I really would have to see his side of it. It seems like goes farther than I would, but it's completely possible that you are blowing completely out of proportion. Don't just look to 'you', but look to how to strategically reinforce the behavior you want. You might be unknowingly reinforcing the behavior you don't want.

Ah, yes, this is the link at Athol's blog I was looking for.

Nate said...

WW

it does appear that your husband is applying some principles of game.. but he's doing so clumsily. I am wondering if maybe he isn't a past alpha that strayed to beta for a time and now is over compensating through game?

if he is gaming you... he is doing a few things correctly and could be doing better at others. I would give him a D probably. I agree with his handling of the jealousy issue and that is about it. Game doesn't require you to treat your spouse like shit. It requires you to discipline yourself with affection and praise. He appears to have gone way beyond that.

I cannot say much more... but I will offer this.

What is marriage?

I submit to you that it is nothing but pure damned stubbornness. it is the willful refusal to leave your post. Even in the face of Hell itself.

This is your post. Failure is not an option. You're here till you die. You don't have to like him. He doesn't have to like you.

But loving him is a choice.

Choose to love him. Choose to give him the benefit of the doubt. Over time these things wax and wane. Take shelter in the Lord in the hard times. They will pass. Focus on the good things and give the bad to God. Find common ground anywhere you can.

God bless.

rycamor said...

Amen, brother.

Anonymous said...

Nate, yes. If I forget the past. I go based on only what is currently before me, THAN (LOL) ok then that would be the core issue.

Rycamore, I cannot get it to open. What is the title, I will go to the blog and search it. Thank you.

I am exhausted. You guys are better then Doctor Phill (who I cannot stand).

Just so you know, and because I am sure you would be proud. My Husband has ignored me all day and is sleeping like a baby. Really. How delightful that I am torn to pieces and he just gets a tv night without having to tell me to leave him alone LOL.

I think I will go wake him up and talk to him. I am sick of being the only one misearable.

Just kidding...but dreaming of it...

WW

Anonymous said...

Nate, you just made me cry. Thank you for your advice. And thank you that it wasn't to join him in a threesome.

I am not going to leave my post.

I will beat the Bitches back!

WW

rycamor said...

Anon, Look for these two posts:

"Alpha Professions and Under-Appreciated Wives"

"Husband Won't Look For Work: Likes Sex, Sandwiches and Cash" (a little benign behavior modification)

Anonymous said...

I think...I have a plan....I will wait to hear from Vox.

WW

Anonymous said...

Thanks Rycamor. Off to read.

Thank you Nate.

And everyone who took the time to help me.

I am not crying anymore. I am getting my too big butt in gear. I will report back in a few months.

Of course, after I get Vox's advice as well.

Thank you all so much.

WW

Nate said...

I make women cry... scream... laugh.. smile... and pray.

Its what I do darlin'. God made some men run fast... he made other men jump high.

He made me know women.. and love them.

No re-think that drinkin' thing.. find some sweet white zinfandel and have a sip or two. Then go sleep.

remember... Jesus's FIRST miracle was turning water to wine. And it wasn't just grape juice.

sip some.. pray hard. Get some sleep. The sun will come up tomorrow.

Nate said...

good to hear. A plan is good.

Give 'it hell.

Toby said...

Nate said...
remember... Jesus's FIRST miracle was turning water to wine. And it wasn't just grape juice.

but it was a grape DRINK...

as for Vox's advice, I think it will be the same as Nate's with a Sigma's touch.

Anonymous said...

LOL. Nate you are a trip. I wouldn't send your butt ANYWHERE with anyone LOL.

Thanks again.

Rycamore, very, very, very on point. Does't look good from that article but I will pray.

Goodnight all.

WW

Nate said...

Ry
I'd just say.. ya know.. Ecc is my favorite book in the Bible... and there is a good reason for that.

Toby said...

My advice to WW is this:

Be happy whenever your man comes home. Let him find relief in you at home after a long and hard day's work.

modernguy said...

You're feeling neglected. Perhaps rightfully I have no idea. See if you were being treated better... you would have a different level of alarm for jealousy.

Lol. Nate you imbecile, she's been saying that from the beginning. Pull your head out of your ass, it's making you high.

So many game experts, so many idiots. Even if this guy was consciously gaming her, which it's pretty clear he's not, he'd be doing a terrible job. You guys with your manuals and encyclopedias of game crammed into your skulls can't even see the plain facts in front of your face. You feel like you have to filter it all through your cool new game shades. Get real.

Hey Markku look up page 1337 in The Encyclopedia of Game, paragraph 4, sub heading "You're a moron" and tell me why you're an autistic robot.

rycamor said...

Rycamore, very, very, very on point. Does't look good from that article but I will pray.

Actually the second article is the one I wanted you to read. It's sort of the opposite of your situation, in that a wife is trying to learn how to elicit more alpha go-getting behavior from her husband, but the principles are similar: reward good behavior, ignore bad behavior.

Toby said...

modernguy = believes everything a woman would tell him

modernguy said...

Toby, it's way past your bedtime. Hug your teddy bears good night and get to bed.

Toby said...

I'll give you a small clue on what country I am residing.

Its 3:00pm here.

So stop assuming things. It would just make you look bad.

Toby said...

WW said...
To Paraphase Chris Rock "Married people cannot have friends of the opposite sex. A "friend" in that case is just someone you have not fu*&$# yet."

I know its funny. But to take that seriously is out of the question. Why? Because I know you know that you have friends that never give you the tingles.

Anonymous said...

This was the advice given by modernguy.

”Actually if he did what she's asking him to do, and at least keep his relationships with women at work separate from his home life it would be better for him.”

”She is behaving like a petulant child because she can't trust him. Given the way he's behaving, she can't be blamed.”

And the best of all:

”This is his wife, whom he (presumably) wants to keep, not some status seeking club slut he's trying to game.”

Gamma mentality 101.

Stingray said...

@ Nate:

Stickwick and Stingray would be in it too but I haven't accepted any applications in a long time.

Damn . . . just, damn. Stickwick, we missed it! ; )

Stingray said...

WW,

I have a much better idea of what is bothering you so much now and I get it. You are feeling neglected and I think that is legitimate. I think you are doing mostly right. Keep doing it. A couple of suggestions: If he wants to unwind when he gets home, even though this may seem counter intuitive, let him. Completely and utterly. Cook him a nice dinner, look nice, keep the kids quite and let him completely relax and even stay away. Be available if he needs you emotionally, and bring him things to help him relax. Otherwise, just leave him alone. Give this a shot for a few days. Sometimes a man just needs space and while it is needed, they begin to see what they are missing in you. This is not easy to do because it can feel like you are giving him the world and you are not getting anything in return. Work through the pain and ignore the hell out of it. I can only speak for my own marriage here, but often time when I felt like I was being neglected, I wasn't, at all. My husband was just so completely burnt that he had nothing else to give. So I gave him everything. After a few days, sometimes longer, he would pay so much attention to me, it was astounding. He just needed to . . . be, for a time.

Don't get angry, don't think about all of this stuff you are doing and what you are not getting back from it. It's not about you and DO NOT let your mind let it become about you at all. Try it and see what happens. As has been said here, you can only change you and how you react to the situation. I'll post this on Vox's response as well and I wish you luck. If I think of anything, I will let you know.

The LP 999/Linda said...

Now, now modernguy, pull back your claws. Please ignore modernguy, he is wrong all the time.

Anon lady or WW: take heart and pray. I'll be praying for you.

As a single woman, around many married women, married women are always fretting about something.

However, married women have so many wonderful things at home: their kids, husband, a nice home life - a real connected family unit. Those are things to dwell upon and perhaps think less about the work situation.

Men often play nice with female co-workers b/c they have to. It is not an attraction or even a chemistry thing, its that women and men are forced to work around each other thanks to feminism but that's a total diversion from the topic.

We ladies all overthink, over-feel stuff. I do not think he is cheating on you. However, I'm just a single female, what do I know...What I can somewhat tell is that you have far more blessings than negatives going on in your life.

The LP 999/Linda said...

Never feel embarrassed Anon. You had something on your heart and it was good to ask about it.

"Vox, appologies to the thread jacking. I am getting weepy here and really don't want to embaress myself anymore then I already have."

Anonymous said...

Thank you very much again to everyone. I have never seen a good marriage in my entire life and am relatively new to the Christian thing (being detoxed from the whole church thing).

I grew up with a very Handsome and Brilliant Father and my Mother was simply..stunning. I mean model stunning, she actually modeled and I don't mean in the local fair :). She would warn me to stay away from Handsome men, he cheated on her quite a bit. And was VERY nasty to her when she no longer looked like a 21 year old model. It ended very tragically, thank God my Husband is not my Father.

I think I am trying to control things because I do not want that to happen. And as others have pointed out, I cannot control others. And it appears behavior that is not appropriate for me as a women is ok for him?

Though I still stand by the situation where I had to leave him and have left out the more drastic reasons. It has left me more then a little shaky in the trust department but it is no longer something he is doing and I have to let it go.

I would appreciate anyone praying for me and will check back in three months.

Thank you again so much. While someone said I was a fool to come to this blog, it appears I came to the right place.

I am sick and tired of being told to cover my head with Fabric and that my Husband is God and can do no wrong. I tried that and he was about to run away from me and he HATED the headcovering LOL. But he loved the unquestioned obedienc (didn't last more then a year though :)

It really explains my Husband's behavior (especially when I expect him to act like a girl LOL) and I am getting some great ideas.

Thank you all so much from the bottom of my Heart.

I am not shit testing, I am a scared Wife and Mother who knows something is wrong and doesn't want to lose everything. Thank God that what is wrong is ME LOL!

WW

Doug1 said...

The girls at Susan Walsh’s have all become just delusional on this issue, following Susan’s fairly recent lead. My disagreeing with her and them on this is part of what got me banned there. (Officially I was said to derail to much, which was ridiculous, I simply defended myself from lots of attacks based on things I’d said about my one way open and fmf lifestyle on other threads.) They’re all following Susan into trying to talk themselves into the notion that they prefer betas and great betas (who will generally have low N’s) to lesser alphas and alphas. Previously Susan was willing to concede that alphas are more sexually attractive to most cute and hot girls, but that they were bad for most girls who want serious relationships. Then that morphed into they aren’t even more sexually attractive if they’ve been players because of some “ick” factor. BS. My making fun of and arguing against that pissed her and her followers off big time.

Vox said...

It was only a small part of it. The much larger part of it was your being a snowflaking asshole with an agenda. I read a number of your comments there and you clearly do not know how to comport yourself on someone else's blog or understand when to shut up, sit back, and listen.

Now, I don't agree with Susan on the "ick" factor reducing Alpha attractiveness either. And I have said as much there. But Susan took a lot longer to kick you t the curb than I would have in her shoes.

And this thread isn't about you. So, don't even think about trying to defend yourself here. If you want to do that, do it on your own blog and those who care can read it there.

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