The Gamma male believes that to win over a woman's heart one must be or appear nice, as what women really desire is a man that's not a player, that takes them seriously, that always respects their wishes, and so on and so forth. The deceptive nature of most Gammas is that they are not inherently nice, as that is usually a facade: most Gammas are somewhat bitter, frustrated, and manipulative. It would be one thing if they were genuinely nice people who simply did not know how to speak with a woman--we can work with that--but the Gamma is not genuinely nice, nor is he good. In fact, the Gamma's goodness extends only so far as it needs to in order to make a woman sleep with him; once/if she does, he believes he can make her stay if he buys her things or cries to her or uses other emotional manipulation to keep her with him.As has been pointed out before, women have a keen antenna for incongruity. And while the feminist assertion that there are no nice guys cannot possibly be true - they attempt to explain their lack of attraction to men who are nice by claiming that all men who appear nice are merely faking it - there is an element of truth from which they have drawn their illogical conclusions.
Gammas are, first and foremost, socially inept. This is primarily because they are either unable or unwilling to understand social hierarchies and appropriate social behavior. It's actually similar to a female mindset in some ways, being self-centric and comprehensively unobservant. Whereas the Alpha's self-centeredness accepts reality and takes advantage of it, the Gamma's self-centeredness denies reality and attempts to replace it with his own preferred perspective.
For example, the way that Gammas insist that women are attracted to service and being put on pedestals is strikingly remniscent of the way women insist that men are attracted to advanced degrees and high-paying jobs. This suggests that the Gamma is attracted to being served and wants to be put on a pedestal himself, and the incongruity that women are detecting is that he is offering what he actually wants. They tend to see this as manipulative, which I think is rather unfair because the Gamma intends it as a noble sacrifice.
But I think that ultimately, the problem is not that the Gamma is bitter and frustrated, because these are learned behaviors; to blame his lack of success on them is to put the cart before the horse. Nor can it be because he is manipulative, since Alphas and especially Sigmas are downright machiavellian, which is one third of the Dark Triad that is so attractive to women.
I think the heart of the problem is that the Gamma tends to be genuinely romantic whereas women simply do not respond sexually to romance. They may enjoy it, but it really doesn't turn them on. Romance is primarily a status game that women play with each other and essentially akin to lion tamers showing off their skill. By demonstrating they are pre-tamed lions, Gammas take all the fun and challenge out of the game and thereby render themselves despicable.
Remember, women don't say "Aw" when they are hot and ready to go. They say it when they look at babies and puppies. The combination of baby-and-puppy projection with sexual pursuit may be, in part, a source of the instinctive disgust that women feel when pursued by a Gamma male.
This doesn't mean that a man can't be nice, but he has to understand that being nice is not an element of sexual attraction and it may even, in some circumstances, be an actual negative.
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This reminds me of something I read in a book for a poli-sci course I took. It was a defense of 'honest graft' by a member of the Tammany Hall machine from late-1800s New York City. 'Honest graft' was essentially realizing that somebody was going to get the contract for a street repair (as an example) so if the work was done and the charge wasn't too excessive why shouldn't the contract be directed to a friend of the machine?
Women seem to view manipulation in the same way. Since everybody recognizes that's the primary way they achomplish their goals, they have no problem with 'honest manipulation' i.e. seduction because they need to define manipulative behavior as normal and acceptable. As you pointed it out it's the dishonesty and misdirection of false altruism that makes the Gamma creepy, not the behavior itself.
By demonstrating they are pre-tamed lions, Gammas take all the fun and challenge out of the game and thereby render themselves despicable.
Alternatively, they demonstrate that the aren't lions at all, and instead are some other kind of...... feline.
Also, they make themselves the fallback position. She can get the orbiter any time she wants. She can aim higher and he will catch her when she falls off the carousel.
One of the frustrating things dealing with gammas is that you can sit down with them and logically point out the dichotomy between what women say they want, and what they respond to instead.....and they acknowledge the truth. And still don't change a thing.
Or argue with the truth. In real life, Adam Sandler's character wouldn't get Drew Barrymore's character in the Wedding Singer.
I've asked their sisters and mothers to come over after the discussion, and THEY reaffirm what I just told the young man. And then immediately try to justify and twist their own admission, before I cut them off and thank them for supporting what I said.
But yes, it is the hypocrisy that turns them off. Dangerous Liasons (sp), showed this with John M's character "secretly" doing charity work but really being an a$$hole, and essentially reversing the nice guy approach.
Would Deltas be the "Nice Guys"?
Nonsense. Women don't care about being "manipulated". If they did game wouldn't work. It's laughable to think that "hypocracy turns them off". They don't care about hypocracy. Alphas are often the biggest hypocrites around, so are women for that matter. Yesterday Gingrich was hailed as an alpha, is he a paragon of virtue?
Women don't like betas because on the contrary, they are not manipulating them, or they are doing it ineptly. Betas are essentially asking to be chosen, which is putting women in the position of having to make a conscious decision. The antithesis of being seduced. The antithesis of being absolved of responsibility. And the antithesis of "it just happened".
Well modernguy, while i'd agree Alphas are often great hypocrites, the difference between them and the gamma wearing the poseur of the nice guy is they know what it is that these women will respond to, where the Gamma is going on what he thinks they will. Also their general lack of attractiveness to women makes women far less likely to overlook their flaws.
Spectator: right, what's your point?
Its laughable to be derisive of "nice guy" betas who are trying to "manipulate" their way into a girls pants and at the same time imply that alphas are more respectable because they have more success. You can't justify it on moral grounds because the mechanism is the same. It's the technique that's different.
Vox is right about one thing though: it's romanticism that separates alpha from beta in a lot of cases. In that way betas are actually less manipulative and more invested.
You are wrong in that the 'romantic' BETAS are projecting onto the object of their affection the feelings they want to receive. Really they are trying to play with her emotions so she feels obligated to do these things. An Alpha on the other hand simply expects to be treated in this way as a matter of course. Sure it's solipsistic, but it's less likely to evoke the cringe effect that BETAS receive when they attempt this with their quarry. The alpha, failing a woman showing this level of attraction will retreat, or just pursue others, whereas the BETA/Gamma will continue pouring it on, hoping that more of the same will produce a different result.
Low status males tend to have suffered a lot of abuse. Anger and bitterness comes with the territory, and yes they aren't attractive. I think a big part of dealing with this is figuring a way to enjoy life for what it offers.
People tend to think other people want what they want, even if those people are of the opposite sex- hence the belief of some women that their degrees and jobs make them attractive, and the belief of non-alphas that kindness and romanticism are helpful.
Modernguy's first message is as if he thought the quoted part was Vox's text and the not-quoted part was somebody else's.
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