Monday, March 21, 2011

Why We Shit Test

In my recent post NAWALT and You, one of the things I advised men to do in filtering out unworthy women was:

"Display a low tolerance for unattractive behaviors. Reward only desirable behaviors.”

This led Hooking Up Smart commenter Dream Puppy to share an example from her own married life, one where she lobbed a massive shit test at her husband:

I’ll give an embarrassing anecdote from my stupid youth. When my husband and I were around the one month mark, we got in a stupid fight in our apartment. I cried, yelled, stormed out, and slammed the door. Hard.

And I waited for him to do what every single other person had ever done when I threw a fit like that. Come running after me- look for me- call me to see if I was all right…

so I waited.

And waited.

And waited.

Finally after two hours. i got tired of walking around the park in a huff and went back home. He was on the computer.

I told him, “Um, didn’t you see me crying! You’re supposed to run after me! The guy is supposed to do that!!”

He said, “That is stupid. I am not running after you. Look what you did to the door. If the landlord notices, you are paying for it. Don’t be reckless again.”

“Um. Ok.”


Dream Puppy got exactly what she wanted in that exchange, which was to know that her husband could stand up to her emotions. She felt comforted, even relieved when he thwarted her attempt at control. She went on to say this about shit tests:

I have a little theory on shit tests. Women want power, as that is access to resources, but women also need protection. Protection from other men, predators, etc.
The shit test basically asks. Can you stand up to me? If the man fails, he is communicating to the woman that since he cannot even stand up to her, it is probably the case he will not be up to the task of protecting her and her children. This is probably why some women have such a visceral reaction to very beta men. They are communicating- “Sorry, cannot protect you or your children. I am WEAK.”
Our instincts would be to not mate with those men and avoid them at all costs.


I agree that shit tests are essentially a form of testing for fitness, or strength. Roissy describes shit tests as a woman's means of "weighing your stones." Shit tests come in many variations, from a woman's asking you to hold her purse at the mall, to storming out during a fight, or even an ultimatum about the relationship.

I distinctly remember the first time I ever shit-tested a guy. I was in the eighth grade and he was a freshman at the high school. I had just moved into his neighborhood. He was a big guy, a very promising football player, and cute. He liked me, and was extremely attentive and sweet.

One day he talked about his father's funeral the year before. As he described the feelings that had come over him as he approached the open casket, he broke down and began to sob. His huge, masculine body shuddered as he poured out his heart and his grief. I felt a surge of empathy, but also alarmed. I had never been in this role, and felt unprepared to cope. I also felt repelled as the tears streamed down his cheeks and fell from his cleft chin.

What I did next will undoubtedly strike you as heartless and indicative of the true nature of women, which of course it is. I share this admission because of its potential to reveal a glimpse of the female psyche, and because I do not believe that my response was in any way unusual or unpredictable.

A couple of days later, we hung out and he was back to his cheerful self, but now truly emotionally tethered to me. He gazed at me adoringly and told me how lucky he was to have found such a nice girl. He asked me for my photo, so that my face could be the last thing he saw before he went to sleep each night.

Here is what I said.

"I'll give you a photo, but only if you do something first. You have to earn it. My favorite song is Band of Gold by Freda Payne. Tonight when you get into bed, turn on your radio. Promise me you won't go to sleep until you've heard it."

He promised.

The next day after school he came over and excitedly reported that he had stayed awake until 3 a.m., but that they had finally played the song. He'd been exhausted all day, but had done exactly as I asked.

I gave him the photo, and dumped him three days later.

At 14, I didn't know enough to recognize and understand what I was feeling, other than the fact that I had completely lost attraction for him. He had leaned on me, hard, long before our relationship could sustain emotional intimacy of that kind, and he had signaled weakness. In my own mind, the cruel test I set up was really about giving him another chance. The only way he could have held onto me at that point was to call me out for being a manipulative bitch.

I'm not proud of this story. It's a story I've shared with my kids as an example of shameful behavior from my own childhood. But it demonstrates in very stark terms what a shit test is, and how important it is for men to refuse to play.

We're wired that way. If you fail a crucial shit test, you won't get a second chance. If a demand strikes you as unreasonable or gratuitous, trust your instincts. We'll like you better for it.

104 comments:

black said...

It's fucked up but true.

What's really sad is that the majority of guys will have to be fucked over before they start looking for answers and finally get it.

Hopefully websites like this will help. Thanks for the real-life story!

Stingray said...

Susan, Do you believe that all s**t tests are consciously done? I tend to believe that many of the bigger ones are, but some the day to day s**t women do is not conscious. They will react the same way when you pass the test, but I don't think they even know they are giving you a a test until they are called on it.

Anonymous said...

Good information for those just getting into relationships, but what of us who have been in relationships for years and who thought they were doing the "right thing" by chasing the girl, by giving in, by acquiescing to show their love because they were told countless times that they did not care / did not love their wife if they did not do what she wanted, nay needed? For those of us in a LTR, specifically married w/ divorce not being an option, from my perspective - for various reasons, is there any recovery?


My problem is being able to identify specific behaviors (from my wife) that tell me that I AM doing a better job. Because during the shit tests (and I call them shit tests, not fitness tests, because in my case they are so typically laden with enough emotion and dramatics it would make a Telemundo Soap Opera star be embarrassed for the hyperbole) I am told that anything good I have ever done was not really meant, I was just trying to fool her. That anything good I have done for my children is not meant. That I do not provide for the family (even though I make a pretty good salary), that I am not a "real" man, blah blah blah.
And then after the fact, after we have had the argument or gotten over the emotion, there seems to be a sort of apology on her part but I am left to wonder what is true, where she is railing on about my lack of being a man because X, Y, Z or do I believe her when she says, infrequently, during our good times that I am a wonderful father and that I am a great husband and that she did not really mean all that she said when she was angry (which she very rarely says).


So I have come to the conclusion (years ago)... I did not do a good job of filtering out unworthy women, at least the last one that mattered, the one I got married to. I can pick out five immediately that I had dated that would have been excellent wife material but hindsight is 20/20.

But in the here and now, I made a promise before God and I plan to keep it... so if we do divorce it will be her leaving. At least that is the point I am at now. I don't know if I (and our family) would be better served by telling her to go ahead and file, because frankly my life would be so much easier in so many respects w/o having to put up with the monthly shit tests. But for now I will be damned if I screw up my kids lives by continuing her families default routine of divorce and re-marriage.

And another thing that really pisses me off about this, as much as I desire to share my thoughts and emotions (filtered), along with a spiritual walk, with my wife and grow stronger as a couple, she does not really seem to care to listen to them, or to share her thoughts and feelings... but I have had several other females tell me they would be more then happy to spend more time with me. So there is some DHV, from a 7 and 7.5. A lot of good that is doing me.

Anonymous said...

Stingray, I am not Susan but you have shared your thoughts with me so I am just returning the favor.

"Do you believe that all s**t tests are consciously done?"

I can not in logical good faith believe that all shit tests are consciously done. If they were that means that my wife specifically and I know of other women, who if they are consciously shit testing each time they do it, would be considered bat shit insane as well as being cruel to their husbands and boyfriends, on purpose. At least I pray to God that is not the case.

I think it comes naturally and more easily to some women and on the opposite side of the spectrum some women are more aware of their propensity to be more emotional and more easily swayed by those things tugging at their emotions.

I even think that those that are not aware of their overabundance of emotions, even when called on it and given (logical) proof, will not always be able to see that they were reacting emotionally and giving their partner a shit test.

Markku said...

I think they first get a suspicion that if she says or does this, the guy probably does this, based on past behavior. And they are so disgusted by the thought of the guy doing it, that they immediately want to find out if it is so.

Orville said...

From a perspective of 20 years married I don't think the shit tests are all planned.

I've started calling her out on them about a month ago, and she has definitely noticed. I'm putting the emphasis on punishing bad behavior AND rewarding good behavior. As Vox and others have said, she is now confused as hell and saying so, but it's also quite clear to her now that I'm not putting up with her occasional BS. I'm encouraged by the results so far. Just be aware she will bitch and grumble about the change.

yohami said...

"In my own mind, the cruel test I set up was really about giving him another chance. The only way he could have held onto me at that point was to call me out for being a manipulative bitch."

Im so amazed to read this coming from a woman

Most women deny their nature, because, well, if you explain all men what they should do all the time, then how could woman tell apart amongst losers and alphas?

Stingray said...

Anon,

Thanks man. I tend to agree with you, but only from anecdotal evidence and not enough for me to be able to come to any good conclusion. Thank you for you thoughts.

JCclimber said...

I used to cringe inwardly when reflecting back on the myriad of sh!t tests I failed or only partially passed. I do so much less often now because I have moved on with my life.

My wife still occasionally throws one at me, usually around that certain time of month. It is interesting how much more quickly the storm clouds disperse now that I pass the tests. I hope I am teaching my son in a way that my father never taught me.

Interesting how even in the business world how often those tests are thrown at men.

Anonymous said...

Men are brought up these days to believe they have to sit still for this nonsense.

Young men need someone to teach them to lay down the hand. This site is a good start.

I also strongly recommend www.takeninhand.com.

Stingray said...

Anon,

It sounds like you can only go up from where you are now in your marriage. Standing up to her has a very good potential to dramatically increase those rare good times that you were talking about. You may want to also check out the site Athol Kay. He talks a lot about using Game in your marriage. I believe the link is on the top right of this site.

I would suggest, that if you do stand up to the s**t tests, that you prepare for the fact that it is likely going to get worse before it gets better. It will be like changing a child's bad behavior. There will be more testing before the behavior subsides. Stand strong. Be confident in the fact, though, women hate when male fail these tests. The weaker you seem to her, the less she will respect you and the more crap you will have to deal with.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Stingray... I have been reading Athol's blog for almost a year now. Yeah, a whole year... but changing 10 plus years of married behavior takes time, that is my excuse.

JC said, "It is interesting how much more quickly the storm clouds disperse now that I pass the tests."
That seems to be one of the few ways I can judge my own progress as well. The tests seemed to last for days even weeks at a time, now they _seem_ to be over in a few hours. With a more positive response from my wife then when I used to fail them or semi-pass them in the past. But still since some trust has been broken I find myself doubting her and her sincerity. And the fact that they seem to continue to happen, although with not as much frequency as they did in the past.

Stingray said...

Anon,

Finding trust and sincerity again are probably going to be the last things to come with your changes. These things seem to be the hardest to find again.

Going from days and weeks to just a few hours, I would think, is a huge improvement. Don't give up. Even though I truly do not believe the tests are conscious they are not going to stop overnight. She likely does not trust that this change in you is permanent after 10 of failing the tests.

I don't know how you deal with the tests, but I would suggest a hard, quick and final response to them. Something that simply says, "This is now over and will not be discussed again, at least until you try to be rational (Obviously, this depends on whether or not further discussion may be warranted. If not, be done with it for good.) Do not let her drag you back into it under any circumstances. You will both be happier.

Geoff said...

Not to get too Freudian, but is there a relationship between how a guy deals with a shit test and how he deals with his mother (or dealt with her growing up)? If a guy cannot stand up to his mother, can he stand up to other women?

DJ said...

@Susan Thanks for this rare insight.

@Anon Been there got the t-shirt.

"So I have come to the conclusion (years ago)... I did not do a good job of filtering out unworthy women, ...
But in the here and now, I made a promise before God and I plan to keep it... so if we do divorce it will be her leaving."

You have the fortunate opportunity of learning about game before the divorce is on paper. I too was burdened by the guilt trip laid on by US churchianity about divorce. My advice is keep implementing the different pieces of game and watch how the interaction changes. It can't get any worse.

Also a big help is finding a study partner. A brother or a buddy with half a brain and compare notes.

Vox said...

From what I've seen, DJ, a man who can't stand up to his mother OR his father is unlikely to be able to stand up to other women.

Good post again, Susan.

Geoff said...

Thanks, Vox. My guess is that there is a correlation between so-called "naturals" and their mothers (or maybe both parents). It might be worth a study!

rycamor said...

I have long thought of these things as part of a woman's self-defense mechanism, even before I heard the term 'shit test". These tests can even seem cute and inconsequential, but they are LOADED. When my wife and I got serious, I finally started saying 'I love you' (words I had never said to any other woman). One day she called me at work, where she knew I was sitting in the presence of my one employee/friend and at the end of the conversation she said 'and...?'

Me: "What?", even though I knew she was waiting for me to say those three words.

Her: "Come on... say it. I want to hear it." (said in a cute playful tone)

For a moment I hesitated, then I thought about her her previous boyfriends who had let her practically run their lives* and I was going to have none of that, so I said "Nah, not this time."

Her: "Why can't you say it? Isn't it true?"

Me: "Sure, but I'll say it when I feel like it, not when you try to make me." (all in perfectly level tones)

She pleaded, she cajoled, she practically cried over the phone and I kept my cool. And finally said "I'll see you later, babe" and hung up the phone.

My co-worker (a definite alpha male) had been getting a bigger and bigger smile the whole time, and after I hung up he said "GOD... I need a cigarette after listening to you two." He even bragged about me on the phone to his wife later "You shoulda heard Ryc".

I knew something significant had happened in our relationship when I saw her later that night and she appraised me with a whole new look in her eye. If I had just hung my head and mumbled 'OK, I love you" to dispense with her demand, I truly think the whole thing would have been over within the month. Not always being so vigilant, I'm sure have failed other tests along the way, but at least I set the tone early on, and it has held through 13 years of marriage.

Now I'm no 'natural' nor any kind of experienced womanizer, but I had managed to at least learn something from a few previous relationships and applied my lessons here. Why so many men can't seem to build on lessons learned is a mystery to me. Don't beat yourself up about the past... USE it!

*Note: it was her complaint to me that previous relationships had made her feel like she was constantly trying to push the guy up a hill. She as much as telegraphed the punch to me! After a few more tests like this, she started saying "It's so nice to be in a relationship with a man who can take care of himself."

Desert Cat said...

Anonymous @ 10:00 AM:
"And another thing that really pisses me off about this, as much as I desire to share my thoughts and emotions (filtered), along with a spiritual walk, with my wife and grow stronger as a couple, she does not really seem to care to listen to them, or to share her thoughts and feelings.."

Reading your tale of woe, I am in a similar situation. But as for this part here, you probably need to let this go. I ran aground on that rock over and over and over throughout the years. There was much "sturm und drang" and many tears shed. But I learned gradually, the hard way, that the "sensitive male" stuff that served me so well years ago is just a non starter with this woman. Your situation sounding similar, you are going to have to learn to become more self-sufficient, self-contained in these matters if you want the relationship you still have to grow and flourish in the directions it is capable of growing.

I mourn the fact that I do not have the "soul mate" I hoped to have in my wife. But I try not to lose any more sleep over it. I game the hell out of her to keep the sparks alive, keep the sex good, and just "man up" over the lost opportunity to sail the warm seas of kindred soulship. It ain't a-gonna happen with this woman, and it may be that yours is similar.

Keep passing the shit tests and keep your chin up. I endured two years of near-hell while I struggled to get the basics of game integrated into my interaction with her, before I started seeing real positive results. If you're less socially retarded than me it ought to take less time if you apply yourself.

Markku said...

Oh, the siren song of the soul mate. I've finally been able to put that demon to death. Perhaps it is just a tantalizing echo of what could have been, if it weren't for the Fall of Man.

paige said...

When I was 16 I asked a guy to shave his legs for me. He did.

Susan Walsh said...

FWIW, I believe that most shit tests are not consciously done. They occur when a woman feels unsteady in the relationship. She wants you to exert authority. No woman wants to be in control of her man. (Obviously, none of this applies to militant feminists :) ).

A shit test is really a woman's upping the ante, usually using emotion, to restore order to the relationship. If the man is eager to appease her, the relationship falls further into a state of imbalance. This increases the woman's resentment and the man's confusion. She appears to be demanding submission, and resenting it at the same time.

The only route to success is the male's issuing a "correction." To reestablish balance, he must refuse to rise to the spurious challenge. The good news is, most women will be happy and relieved to have order restored in this way.

Susan Walsh said...

@Anonymous

I respect your decision to stand by your wife no matter what, and I understand from your description that she is a pretty tough customer. You say you have been reading Athol for a year now, and it does sound as if things have improved. I don't know if you are doing things "by degrees" but I would encourage you to absolutely reject groundless demands out of hand. It sounds like she has had years of gaining the upper hand, so she will probably put up quite a fuss. But I do believe your best shot is in standing firm. Calmly point out all unreasonable behavior, and refuse to engage it. That is my advice, FWIW.

Susan Walsh said...

@yohami

I confess I do not understand the claim that women have an interest in weeding out betas. If they do, it's misguided. Beta males, per Vox's hierarchy are highly eligible for mating. I would add that I am also a subscriber to Athol's definition of the ideal being a mixture of alpha dominance traits and beta comfort traits. It is far easier to add alpha behaviors to the beta male (though I'm not saying it's easy by any means) than to add beta traits to an alpha male.

There will always be opportunities for alpha males to lead others, but in truth our society and economy have never been friendlier to betas than they are today. STEM guys are poised to inherit the earth in many ways. This is a time when the lines are becoming blurred, and the components of social dominance (or perhaps the routes to social dominance) are changing.

Susan Walsh said...

@JCclimber


My wife still occasionally throws one at me, usually around that certain time of month. It is interesting how much more quickly the storm clouds disperse now that I pass the tests. I hope I am teaching my son in a way that my father never taught me.


This is a really important point. We will definitely shit test more when PMSing. However, your response should be exactly the same. Do not dispense with common sense. If her demands are unreasonable, say so. She may growl or pout, and you may wisely decide not to engage in a heated argument. For consistency's sake, though, you cannot cave. You are better off just walking away.

rycamor said...

Oh, the siren song of the soul mate.

See, now that's another thing I had to learn. Previous to my wife, I thought I had found the perfect candidate: college lit. professor, reformed feminist who had come back to the Church, upper-middle class, smart as a whip. I had finally found a woman who could even understand my brooding intellectual self (I know... gah!!), never mind that she hung on my every word. And, within a month or two, kissing her felt like kissing my sister (not that I've done that!). I had to break it off. My wife is almost the polar opposite of me in personality and interests, and never once in 13 years have I felt that 'kissing your sister' phenomenon.

It is a weakness of we intelligent and geekish men to tell ourselves about the perfect soulmate just around the corner who will understand our unique snowflakey selves, similar to the way woman tell themselves they just want a sensitive, caring man who will do anything for them.

Susan Walsh said...

I don't know how you deal with the tests, but I would suggest a hard, quick and final response to them. Something that simply says, "This is now over and will not be discussed again, at least until you try to be rational (Obviously, this depends on whether or not further discussion may be warranted. If not, be done with it for good.) Do not let her drag you back into it under any circumstances. You will both be happier.

Just want to say I think this is excellent feedback from Stingray.

IndyGuy77 said...

"When I was 16 I asked a guy to shave his legs for me. He did."

I was calling my old GF a wuss for whining about the pain in leg waxing. They told me to PUOSU and I did. I let them wax a spot about the size of a silver dollar on my ankle.

It only proved the point: Women are INSANE.

That pain on my JUNK?

No freaking way.

Susan Walsh said...

@paige

When I was 16 I asked a guy to shave his legs for me. He did.

LOL! Thank you, paige, that was the perfect ending to a long day...

IndyGuy77 said...

THAT said... (And I didn't call out, either. But I sure as Hell WANTED to.)

I understand the need to shit-test, but... wow.

This particular shit-test seems more evil than it is, because it only came about after he exposed his vulnerability re: his father's passing. Which seems like preying on vulnerabilities that wouldn't be oft exposed.

This one post may be more eye-opening than Roissy's archives.

Anonymous said...

It is becoming increasingly clear that allowing women freedom in mate selection is incompatible with any sort of high tech civilization. The example shown here gives a very clear picture of the dark nature of every woman. The problem with advanced civilization is that you need beta behaviors of tireless work, effort, looking out of others, and kindness to keep it going. Cooperation rather than continuous ruthless competition is needed to maintain it. These behaviors are incompatible with pre-programmed female desires.

It seems likely that for any future advancement in civilization to occur we will need to revert back to match makers and other methods that completely remove the females questionably self advantageous goals of selecting a thug rather than a good worker for a mate.

Make no mistake women *do* have the power to change men and in mass and this what they are doing. As knowledge of game spreads we will be rolling in criminals, miscreants, and cocky self assured assholes in very short order. The message that education, loyalty, and hard work is the way to succeed was the mantra for a while. Now thanks to women these behaviors are actively punished and the younger men are getting the message loud and clear.

Desert Cat said...

yohami said...
Im so amazed to read this coming from a woman

Most women deny their nature, because, well, if you explain all men what they should do all the time, then how could woman tell apart amongst losers and alphas?


OTOH, if you explain to men who have been mis-programmed from an early age such that they begin to correct their faulty programming, stop doing loser things and start doing it the alpha way, then have you not improved these men in the eyes of women? Are they really losers acting like winners, or are they beginning to become more like winners?

If widespread dissemination of this knowledge results in a general increase in the quality of men in the dating pool, does it not inure to the benefit of women?

Bottom line is that Susan appears to be quite a bit more self-aware than average.

JCclimber said...

I don't see the big deal about leg waxing. I tried once before a triathlon to see if it would improve my race times. It hurt some, but much much less than muscle pain after a particularly hard workout.

I wonder if part of the bitching about that kind of thing is just an extension of the love of drama, and the attempt to gain sympathy. Bah! Life is pain and suffering with wonderful bouts of joy, love, and happiness. Deal with it.

Anonymous said...

Interesting.

I've found my wife responds very well to refusal to take tests. The sooner I adopt the immovable position, the better for me and for her. She's naturally very anxious, which provides abundant opportunity for testing. If I refuse to pander to her panic, it stabilises her and greatly reduces anxiety - win-win!

Nate said...

gamma males read this... and are now seriously considering shooting every woman they know.

Luckily they're gamma.. so instead lots of girls will be getting flowers instead.

Ryan said...

Being a slow learner, I can only say I wish I could have read this post by Susan many years ago.

My first wife's shit tests were so brutal that I thought I had been hit by a Mack truck when the first one hit me out of the blue.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned in the comments is the makeup sex. My wife, after these grueling cryfests, would have intense, shuddering orgasms.

After some time, it became clear to me there was a definite pattern. While the sex was good, the whole nightmare was not worth it, and the violence kept increasing.

Long story short, I tricked her into flying to see her folks, then I MOVED AWAY and stayed hidden for a year. Never saw her again.

Giraffe said...

My most memorable shit test that I passed was when Mrs. Giraffe and I were dating. We had a fight, and she stormed out of my vehicle and into her parents house. I left. I didn't make it two block and my cell rang. She was screaming at me to get back there. I hung up without saying a word and drove home. She called me and was apologetic a while later.

I probably would not have passed that test later on in the relationship. At the time, I wasn't too heavily invested, and I just thought why should I put up with that?

My life would be so much easier I wasn't so oblivious to such obvious lessons.

A said...

lol flowers.

Wondering Goym said...

Dream Puppy's story reminds me of a similar incident early in settled-life.

The Missus and I were having a standard-issue argument you get in your early-to-mid twenties over nothing. She stormed out of the house (knowing that pisses me off to no end), and I simply stayed at home.

She returned an hour later, all I said to her was, "I've never hit you, and I've never threatened to hit you. You'd better think long and hard next time you decide to storm out in the middle of me speaking to you. Because if you do, there's a damn fine chance I ain't gonna be here when you get back." And she knew I meant on a permanent basis.

Haven't had a problem since with that.

zoegirl said...

"I am told that anything good I have ever done was not really meant, I was just trying to fool her. That anything good I have done for my children is not meant. That I do not provide for the family (even though I make a pretty good salary), that I am not a "real" man, blah blah blah."

Anon, this was really hard to read. I'm sorry that you've experienced this. A word of advice to any women who might read this blog - there are some things that are just not acceptable. Most of us do give our husbands s-tests whether we mean to or not, but you do need to make intentional decisions ahead of time about what you will not say. Words can cause irreparable damage. You can tell him that he's being an insensitive jerk because it's a surface thing, but never attack him at the core of his manhood if you want him to continue being a man for you.

Anonymous said...

when i was engaged to my wife, she said that she was "so happy that i'd still love her even if she got fat".

my response was: "i never said anything like that! would you love me if i became a raging alchoholic?"

to this day she's nice and trim, and still hot 9 yrs. later.

i now realize i passed a mega s--t test.

No_Name said...

My ex-wife certainly did shit tests, but I think it is more than just a female trait, it is her personality. Some women are mean and nasty. You don't often see the full picture until it is too late. She was manipulative. When it was apparent that I was never going to satisfy her. I stopped catering to her. This approach didn't help. She decided to escalate it for a few more years of marriage. Then she wanted the divorce. Women initiate 2/3rd of divorces. It is harder to find the right one to marry. If many women are unsuitable, men will stay single. Not even worth it.

Markku said...

Everybody should understand that it's not about whether or not it always produced a good result when men stood up to women's shit-tests. But rather, if it ever did that when they didn't.

Rhetorical question, no need to answer.

Stanley said...

I don't allow s**t tests. After 35 years of marriage she knows better. She trusts me and I have earned it by the strength of Yeshua Mashiach. It started on my honeymoon and not being adept at handling this type of thing I have always resorted to the ultimatum. Simply because it is the fallen condition for women to dispense these s**t tests doesn't mean it is OK. The feminist movement undermines all social stability. Read the wise council of Memucan:

13 Then the king said to the wise men, which knew the times, (for so was the king's manner toward all that knew law and judgment:
14 And the next unto him was Carshena, Shethar, Admatha, Tarshish, Meres, Marsena, and Memucan, the seven princes of Persia and Media, which saw the king's face, and which sat the first in the kingdom;)
15 What shall we do unto the queen Vashti according to law, because she hath not performed the commandment of the king Ahasuerus by the chamberlains?
16 And Memucan answered before the king and the princes, Vashti the queen hath not done wrong to the king only, but also to all the princes, and to all the people that are in all the provinces of the king Ahasuerus.
17 For this deed of the queen shall come abroad unto all women, so that they shall despise their husbands in their eyes, when it shall be reported, The king Ahasuerus commanded Vashti the queen to be brought in before him, but she came not.
18 Likewise shall the ladies of Persia and Media say this day unto all the king?s princes, which have heard of the deed of the queen. Thus shall there arise too much contempt and wrath.
19 If it please the king, let there go a royal commandment from him, and let it be written among the laws of the Persians and the Medes, that it be not altered, That Vashti come no more before king Ahasuerus; and let the king give her royal estate unto another that is better than she.
20 And when the king's decree which he shall make shall be published throughout all his empire, (for it is great,)all the wives shall give to their husbands honour, both to great and small.
21 And the saying pleased the king and the princes; and the king did according to the word of Memucan:
22 For he sent letters into all the king?s provinces, into every province according to the writing thereof, and to every people after their language, that every man should bear rule in his own house, and that it should be published according to the language of every people.


Stan

zoegirl said...

"From what I've seen, DJ, a man who can't stand up to his mother OR his father is unlikely to be able to stand up to other women."- VD

I agree. But I think that the mother and father work towards different aspects. The father allows his son to take him on but challenges him so that he develops greater strength(both physical and mental). A mother allows it to develop her son's confidence in his male role. It is important to understand that it's something we teach (or don't) as parents.

Vox said...

I am left to wonder what is true, where she is railing on about my lack of being a man because X, Y, Z or do I believe her when she says, infrequently, during our good times that I am a wonderful father and that I am a great husband and that she did not really mean all that she said when she was angry (which she very rarely says).

It's unpleasant, but really, who cares? This is precisely why I tell men not to put much credence in what women say. If her actions tell you that she values you, then she does. If they don't, then she doesn't.

Susan Walsh said...

@IndyGuy77

This particular shit-test seems more evil than it is, because it only came about after he exposed his vulnerability re: his father's passing. Which seems like preying on vulnerabilities that wouldn't be oft exposed

I agree, it does seem that way, but remember - sexual attraction is not a choice. Women do appreciate the display of vulnerability in a loved male, but this is very tricky. Mostly we only want our men to be vulnerable to us, and even then in very small doses.

On HUS, the thread has been a firestorm of recrimination, which I was prepared for, and which seems appropriate. However, it will not change the bio reality of the female's propensity to test. I've exposed the ugly underbelly here. Some of the women on my site have claimed NAWALT, so I may have a particularly cruel streak. I would only point out that I do not test my husband much - and if I do he calls me out immediately. FWIW, he's a beta in the Vox sense.

Susan Walsh said...

@Ryan
Wow, that's quite a story. It makes sense that if a man passes a shit test, the woman's desire for him will increase. I assume there's lots of great sex happening after fights where the husband gains some control. You don't say whether this was the case in your marriage, but if your ex-wife succeeded in belittling you, then got off on violent sex, she sounds like a sadist nut.

DaveD said...

I know this is dumb/gamma but I have to ask since this is the second time I've seen the "showing emotions is weak" thing in less than a week.

So, when my dad dies sometime in the next year (and barring divine intervention, he's going to) I can't cry in front of my girlfriend because she'll leave me because I'm a wussy?

So much for being a help mate...

DD

Markku said...

I can't cry in front of my girlfriend because she'll leave me because I'm a wussy?

You can, but you'll need to pay back your tear credit sooner or later. If you have lots of credit, it won't be a problem.

Stingray said...

DD, if your girlfriend gives you grief for crying after your DAD dies get the hell away from her. She is not worthy of your time. Susan did this when she was in the 8th grade. Any adult woman that does this should be slapped.

This is an entirely different situation than crying at the end of "Steal Magnolias".

zoegirl said...

DaveD, I would hope that you can cry over the loss of your father in front of your girlfriend. Although it's probably not a good way to start a relationship, once in, it should be natural when something like that happens. If she can't handle it respectfully and give you support and comfort while still upholding your manhood, you might want to reconsider the relationship anyway. A woman that takes advantage when you're truly down isn't worth committing to.

One thing that I notice in this blog is how little space is given for a mans humanity. Even an 'alpha' needs respect and a certain kind of strength from his helpmate. I feel pity for the woman who never matures to the point of being able to give that to him. Without it there is a depth and security of relationship that she won't be able to achieve because her mate will always have to keep his guard up.

Susan Walsh said...

@Dave D

Whatever you do, please don't take the message away from my post that you shouldn't ever be vulnerable or show emotion. A woman's response to great sadness in a man will depend on the degree of intimacy and trust already established in the relationship, her feelings for him, and the circumstances that caused him pain.

I have of course seen my husband of 26 years cry and have felt nothing but love and empathy. However, a sobbing boy I'd known for two weeks that probably should have been telling this to a counselor? It was just too much for such a tenuous relationship.

In any case, if he had in fact told me I was a manipulative bitch, we would have been fine. It wasn't his crying that ended it, it was his deference to my ridiculous whim, which I issued to test his backbone.

YOHAMI said...

@Susan

"I confess I do not understand the claim that women have an interest in weeding out betas."

I realized women dont see betas as men, so when they say they crave for beta qualities, its just their desire of taming the alpha men they are attracted to, a bit, so he can settle down and provide.

But betas hear the message and become yet more beta. sad.

YOHAMI said...

@Desert Cat

"If widespread dissemination of this knowledge results in a general increase in the quality of men in the dating pool, does it not inure to the benefit of women?"

For sure. But women dont care about the well being and improvement of betas. As they see it, a man either has "it" or not, and betas dont

So they instinctively dont want lesser men imposting greater attributes and reproducing

They feel like real men dont need to be told what and how or helped / instructed

And they are mostly wrong

Vox said...

So, when my dad dies sometime in the next year (and barring divine intervention, he's going to) I can't cry in front of my girlfriend because she'll leave me because I'm a wussy?

Of course you can cry for your father. Within reason, anyhow. I cried in front of Spacebunny the evening I found out that my grandfather's leukemia was terminal. That was nearly 15 years ago; she knew how close we were and understood how devastating the news was for me. But I also didn't milk my grief for sympathy nor made a habit of shedding tears whenever a relative died.

Still, one thing you should take away from this blog is this: there is no fairness. It doesn't exist, especially not with regards to the vagaries of female sexual attraction. You don't have to control your emotions in front of women any more than you have to lift weights or be rich. But the fact is that there are certain observably causal relationships.

So mourn your dead however you see fit. But, mourn them in a way that befits a man if you wish to be one.

JCclimber said...

There really is no problem showing your emotions in front of your woman. Jesus wept, and no one is accusing HIM of being a wimp or not worthy of respect. Of course, He was weeping for others, but still.

Don't try to be a Conan. On the other hand, exactly why are you crying? And how many times?

Desert Cat said...

This song from the Pretender's has been running through my head for the last day: Stop Your Sobbing

YOHAMI said...

@JCclimber

Jesus died being a virgin, maybe you just found the reason why

Anonymous said...

Yohami just gave Jesus a shit test. I wonder what his reaction will be when they finally meet.

zoegirl said...

The good news for Yohami is that Christ is in authority, He's completely confident of that and He is forgiving.

Quant said...

@Desert Cat

"This song from the Pretender's has been running through my head for the last day: Stop Your Sobbing"

Hmph, Chrissie Hynde & co. were merely covering that song, written by Ray Davies of The Kinks (whom Hynde later married and divorced).

The LP 999/Linda said...

There are different hysterics to test men upon. The high dramatic scenes are emotionally draining for many.

I am a huge pain in the ass, therefore, not letting women like me get away with anything shows me the person cares and will not tolerate my silliness. It is not, 'oh he is MEAN 2 me'. Nah, its, 'ah, someone I can respect and even honor'.

The LP 999/Linda said...

Wait, I called sh-t tests hysterics, is that even correct? the high end drama stuff is just annoying for me is all I meant.

Note to self, get back 2 normal.

The LP 999/Linda said...

My concern would be to not push the other person in a state of like anxiety or something. Some men have all these screwed up fears and cannot figure out what to do or how to react to sh-t tests, which gives us women the answers we want, I guess. It is a sad stateside story in Femerica or something. Logic fail on my part. I am missing something.

rycamor said...

Not a logic fail. Manhood fail, sadly.

But yes, there are limits. The man should make a reverse test out of her tests. If she keeps escalating the drama, that's a good sign to move on.

The LP 999/Linda said...

Ok, then. So I was seeing a slight failure in men or humanity.

Nate said...

A 15 year old boy crying over his died dieing is something that a female of any age should not judge him for.

The fact that she did simply indicates that her father didn't kick the shit out of her enough.

I am not a crier. In fact... I make fun of criers. But for f**ks sake... the kid's dad died. Emphasis on kid.

regardless.. its a predictable outcome... because no fathers kick the shit out of them enough. Virtually.

Anonymous said...

Which is what happens when you have no social controls on female behavior - you get lots more shit tests and they tend to be a lot more evil. If her her mother and father and friends all reacted with horror and shamed her for doing it we wouldn't be reading about it but that didn't happen. In fact what we see is women saying "Oh well that's the way it is - deal with it." It isn't the way it *needs* to be anymore than tolerating the extreme excesses of male behavior is.

Vox Fan said...

People often do not understand what they do nor why they do it. The "tests" are a genetically programmed response by women to triage a man's fitness for mating. Ironically, most men and women have no understanding of this because of the abolition of gender dimorphism as an existential reality. Man does not equal woman.

A man must be confident in his beliefs about the differences between the genders to stand up to such tests (to a point). A woman will understand a man who is not intimidated by such behavior.

The entire US 'Family Law' system is designed to deny such differences and to destroy the family by destroying the relevance of fatherhood...

Anonymous said...

If a guy I liked went out of his way for me I would KEEP HIM. But I wouldn't tell him to do something stupid like that. I would ask him to do something meaningful to me.

Anonymous Reader said...

Thanks for posting this confession. It is most interesting and unusual to see a woman admitting such a thing.

Another way some men have of dealing with such tests is simple: ignore them a time or two, and if they are repeated, simply leave the relationship, severing all communication and utterly refusing to ever speak to or be in the presence of the woman again. I'm sure this is not Alpha, is it beta or some other greek letter? What should this be called, the nuclear option, perhaps?

One thing about this approach, it efficiently weeds out all drama queens, all manipulative women, women who are overly fond of their little tests, and many other PITA's. Something for women to bear in mind, when they get bored and decide a little test is in order...

Anonymous Reader said...

One more thing in passing: some men regard words as having meaning. They don't forget words that are said, no matter how much time, or tears, may pass by. They remember words said to them, both good and ill, forever.

A woman should be careful what words she says to a man, even when she is angry, because he could be a man to whom words mean things, and as such he will take her words to heart and remember them always. A woman can display contempt for a man only so many times before she erodes any feelings he may have for her away, bit by bit.

Women, remember: the opposite of love it not hate. It is indifference...total, utter, "I don't care if you live or die" indifference. If you want to induce that, just use words of contempt enough times, and you shall have indifference.

If you do not want indifference, then choose your words, when angry, with care.

David said...

Greetings, all.

I'm new to game and I will admit: it's upending my world in ways good and bad. My encounter with game has entailed such a paradigm shift that I have resolved to read Roissy's blog from the very first post to the last, and I will probably read it through again just to make sure I am never again fooled by those 'pretty lies' that have thwarted me for years. Like other men here, I've been on the receiving end of female cruelty enough times to know that a) it really does exist, despite our culture's man-loathing insistence to the contrary and its associated expectation that we men meekly and tearfully prostrate ourselves in the face of it, and b) I'm never putting up with this fucked-up shit ever again. Though the women in my family were kind enough not to hide their true colors from me during my childhood, so that I've always had some inkling of the dark side of women, the miserable truth is that standing up to women is something I'm still learning. In that regard, my thanks to the authors of websites such as this, as well as the commenters, who provide the insights, rationale, and suggestions I need never to abase myself to women again. Truly: much thanks. I'm sure many men here will understand the depths of my gratitude.

Needless to say, being new to game, I have a whole world of questions to ask. I'd like to pose one such question to the men here, particularly those involved in LTRs.

So Susan confessed that she despised her football boyfriend for weeping in front of her after the death of his father. That any human being would respond so cruelly in the face of severe suffering is incomprehensible to me. In fact, it's positively despicable. I have always believed that the weak, as long as they were also innocent of malice, deserved protection and care, not contempt - and certainly not torment! Now my long-held suspicion has finally been confirmed: women do hate weak men. And in accordance with this hatred, women actively (and creatively, I must say!) pursue ways to make weak men suffer... just for being weak. Truly breathtaking. Why any man would grant his protection and care to anyone who treats members of his own sex this way is simply beyond my comprehension. The fact that women are hard-wired for this behavior only underscores their worthlessness to my mind and thus increases my bafflement that men continue to take care of them. I understand the species cannot continue without this cooperation. At this point I do not believe the species is worth perpetuating. Well, at least not the female half. But that only gets you so far.

So, gentlemen, my question, or at this point my questions:

How do you manage to love someone who would happily slice your throat the moment you let your guard down?

How do you manage to love someone who never has the strength to let you be yourself? After all, we are not strong all the time, we do hurt occasionally, we don't always know the answer, and so forth. To keep a woman, you must always hide some part of yourself. Why would you give yourself to a woman who is totally and perpetually unwilling even to try to accept you in your entirety - yet expects you to do this for her?

How do you manage to love someone who turns love into a game of power? That is, how do you manage to love someone who is herself totally incapable of real love, and in fact works hard to destroy it?

Long story short, what is it that your women offer you that makes you willing to put up with the fact that they are, at bottom, rotten human beings?

Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Women give lousy head.

David said...

Zoegirl wrote,

"One thing that I notice in this blog is how little space is given for a mans humanity. Even an 'alpha' needs respect and a certain kind of strength from his helpmate. I feel pity for the woman who never matures to the point of being able to give that to him. Without it there is a depth and security of relationship that she won't be able to achieve because her mate will always have to keep his guard up."

You captured better some of what I meant to say.

Susan wrote,

"Whatever you do, please don't take the message away from my post that you shouldn't ever be vulnerable or show emotion."

Get real.

Vox wrote,

"So mourn your dead however you see fit. But, mourn them in a way that befits a man if you wish to be one."

Jesus Christ. Yet another one counsels men to define their worth by the idiotic evaluations of women. I expect this gynocentric behavior from women, not men.

DaveD, you cry as much as you want and need, and in no uncertain terms you tell any scumbag bitch who gives you grief about it to go fuck herself and find a soul before she even has the nerve to think about talking to you again.

Susan wrote,

"...but remember - sexual attraction is not a choice. Women do appreciate the display of vulnerability in a loved male, but this is very tricky. Mostly we only want our men to be vulnerable to us, and even then in very small doses."

LOL!!! Anything else you want, Princess?

Anonymous wrote,

"Now thanks to women these behaviors are actively punished and the younger men are getting the message loud and clear."

Damned right. All my male friends are going to get a copy of this article.

Paige wrote,

"When I was 16 I asked a guy to shave his legs for me. He did."

Worthless scumbag.

red_horizon0127 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
David said...

Final remark.

Anonymous wrote,

"Women, remember: the opposite of love it not hate. It is indifference...total, utter, "I don't care if you live or die" indifference. If you want to induce that, just use words of contempt enough times, and you shall have indifference."

Yep! The way I'm looking at this, however, is that no man who has any intelligence at all should have anything but a cold indifference to women.

At this point, I couldn't be bothered to help a woman, not even if she were dying on the side of the road in a pool of her own blood. Let the bitch go. That's one less beta-fucking menstruating parasite, and thus a better world for those of us who still have souls.

Anonymous said...

Re the Pretenders 'Stop Your Sobbing' - Chrissie Hynde's 'Private Life' is more apposite :

Your private life drama, baby leave me out.
Your private life drama, baby leave me out.
Your private life drama, baby leave me out.
Your private life drama, baby leave me out.

Getting tired of your theatrics, your acting's a drag.
It's okay on T.V. 'cause you can turn it off,
But don't try me.
Yes your marriage is a tragedy, but that's not my concern.
I am very superficial, I hate anything official.


Your sentimental gestures only bore me to death.
You've made a desperate appeal, now save your breath.
Attachment to obligation through guilt and regret, shit that's so
wet,
And your sex life complication is not my fascination.

You ask me for advice - I say, 'Use the door.'
Yet you're still clinging to somebody you deplore.
And you want to use me for emotional blackmail.
I just feel pity when you lie - contempt when you cry.

Nathan Ashoka said...

So is this why women prefer men who not only pass shit tests, but serve them out? I mean outright unreasonable demands are the characteristic of the cruel jerk, but many jerks are alpha.

rycamor said...

Such anger being revealed here... I think it is quite telling on how much men have been conditioned these past couple decades.

Look at David's quote above:
------------------
Paige wrote,

"When I was 16 I asked a guy to shave his legs for me. He did."

Worthless scumbag.

------------------
Over-the-top much, David? I guess I grew up before this sort of conditioning was complete (80s), because even though I was a bookish geek in high school who hardly ever dated, I would have just laughed at a request like this. "What the heck is the matter with you, girl?" It's not like girls *make* you do these things, guys. If you fall for it, once, fine. Fall for it again, shame on you. A "worthless scumbag" has got to do something a lot more worthy of shame than stupid requests like that.

Reminds me of the time I was at a party with some of my wealthier classmates and they put on some Billy Idol tunes and started dancing. Now they knew I was not a dancer, and one of the girls mockingly grabbed me and said "come on, Ryc, move that body!" I just joked back "get your hands off me, woman." Even average guys back then knew that they didn't have to fall over themselves to comply with a girl's request. What changed?

David said...

Rycamore, shame is essential to the feminine being. Her very existence is embarrassing. She is a being without a conscience - that is, an animal - masquerading as a human person. This is intrinsically shameful. A woman needn't do anything to earn the label 'worthless scumbag'. It is who she is. The shameful things she does simply point to this fact.

Richard Ford said...

Susan,

The thing that struck me most about your story was how similar it is th the dynamics of a Dom female/ sub male relationship. It is quite common for the woman to set such tests and then add to them over time so that the male sub (for instance) is not only denied sleep, but orgasm and even use of his own money that is paid directly to his 'owner'.

It is common for women in such relationships to talk of their slave with contempt and hatred and to take pleasure in humiliating him in front of others.

I had always assumed this was part of the 'worthless slave' thing but it occurs to me that there is greater respect where the Dommie uses phisical punishments rather than shit test like humiliations.

Most Dommies seem to hate there slaves on some level while almost all Doms seem to love theit female slaves even if they abuse them equally.

It all makes sense now.

jadoescher said...

Susan,

I understand that this young man's outpouring of emotion at such an early stage in the relationship was too much for you to handle, but you could have let him down easy after that. Or, you could had set up some smaller tests if you had wanted to keep him. If you had lobbed the "Ring of Gold" test at a guy who hadn't poured his heart out to you it would be bad enough, but it truly says something about your character that you would throw such a manipulative test at someone who had just exposed himself like that. I realize you were young, but this post is still a glimpse into the soul of a type of woman that men need to avoid.

Desert Cat said...

Best of luck with that. That would be all of them.

Learn Game and deal with women as they are, not as your pedestalization wishes them to be.

Anonymous said...

Nice! So I guess you passed the test.

Anonymous said...

feminism is a shit test on the men in society.

Anonymous said...

I think a couple folks are being too hard on Susan. The 8th grade is pretty young and we also don't know all of the details. We just have a couple paragraphs that a paint a picture that is largely up to interpretation by the reader.

One of my friends--really more of a friend of a friend--a woman from Cambodia, once told me that she can't stand to see a man cry for any reason. I distinctly remember asking her, "Well what if his mother just died?". And she said it wouldn't matter. You might be quick to think, "What a cold-hearted bitch", but as with all stories, there are often details that sometimes never come to light. In her case, when she was 14, she saw her father shot in the head. Both her and her mother were raped and her mother was beaten to death. She was left to find a way to take care of herself and her two younger brothers, and she didn't have time to grieve the death of her parents or the horrible way in which it happened. So in her world, "weakness" is something she was never allowed to experience. And when you know that about her, you can understand (at least I can) why she is turned-off in seeing an image of it in someone else.

Every person has a story, and our stories are complicated. They have so many intricate details that contribute to the way we are when we're adults. This is not to say that every action is excusable because of the past, but at the very least, we can try to understand why some people behave and act in the way that they do. And people do change. I saw several people here quoting from religious works. What about Saul, the one who killed Christians before he became the apostle Paul? Did he not change and see the error of his ways? So why hold so much against an 8th grade girl who was trying to understand herself and her emotions?

When it comes to my own life, I can definitely be a mix of alpha and beta. But I like the times when I'm beta and I won't be with a woman who can't accept that. Not everything in life needs to be a battle or a contest for me. And just because I help someone out doesn't mean they've asserted dominance over me. Sometimes I just feel like helping...for me.

In my experience in dating, I've realized that the women that want the highest level of alpha traits in a man are often the least secure in themselves. They crave the dominance and protection because they feel shaky standing completely on their own. The try hard to give off the completely opposite vibe, usually leading to them being labeled as bitches, but it all stems from insecurity. There's a certain calm and presence about a confident woman of inner strength. Yes, she'll demand that you be a man when you need to be, but she's not harsh and she's not violent in action or tone. Those are the ones I like, and I've found there are not many of them. They also don't have a problem with beta behavior, so long as you stand your ground when it actually matters.

Anonymous said...

hi all, I've read this blog a few months ago while my marriage was on the rocks. My wife is a good person, but when she threw a hissy fit, it's brutal. Back then, I tried to cater to her anger, but it's just making it worse. after reading this blog, and a few similar ones, I realize what I did wrong. So whenever she threw one of her tantrum, I simply would not respond and do my own thing. it work well in spaces. At least I'm not getting dragged into prolonged fights.

My main problem now is identifying which one is the shit test, which one is the real problem that I should respond thoughtfully, cause I dont believe every time she was angry is a shit test.

Like the one I'm currently having right now. Yesterday, we have bad row, and she yell she's going to her mother and wanted divorce. First I tried to stop her, but it's obvious shortly that she's in that familiar mood, so in the end I just walk out and went to work. Usually, when something like this happen, I would be busting my ass to her mother and trying to make her came back. but this time, I planned to have anice time for myself. It turns out, she didnt go the her mother after all and stay home. She said she's embarassed to let her mom know we have a fight. later that night, as we already made up, I told her casually that I'm going to see a movie that night if she werent home. she went crazy after knowing that I wouldnt go after her. Now she kicks me out of the room and I had to sleep on the couch. She said she'll go to her mom house tomorrow for 3 days and I shouldn't bother to pick her up.

I'm guessing that she's doing this because she feel threathen that I dont love her as much as I do back then. I must admit its very hard to keep alpha attitude for this, thinking I had screw up. I know that she do this because she wanted me to pick her up, but I'm not sure I should do that. But if I didnt I'm not going to see my son for 3 days :(.

Desert Cat said...

Don't sleep on the couch. It's your bed. If she doesn't want to sleep with you, she can be the one to sleep on the couch. Don't make it into a fight. Be cordial and nonplussed but stand your ground when she pitches the inevitable fit.

Know this: it will seem to get worse before it gets better. Reward her for doing the right thing, ignore her when she misbehaves. It will feel peculiar at first to break out of the old mold, but a few successful outcomes will reinforce the wisdom of the Alpha way.

Californio_6th_ gen said...

Talk to a lawyer immediately. Start to document her emotional mood swings with her outbursts and leaving. You cannot be a father to your son when you are emotionally beaten down at home. The likely end result of your standing up is personal dignity - you need to fight for that (non-violently) as a drowning man fights for air.

Giorgio said...

Susan Walsh, I have great respect for you and your honesty.

There are few women that actually know how they themselves really act, and even fewer that want to admit it.

For all guys, there are shit-tests, yes. But when you fuck up, which you will, she will be mad about it.
Those are NOT shit-tests, when you fuck it up, you got to make it right too.

But again, keep it going, Susan!
Your articles are like hamburgers: I'm lovin it.

3rdmilleniummen said...

Fantastic post. Cuts right to the heart of what shit tests are all about, and how to respond to them.

Anonymous said...

stupid whore

Anonymous said...

Articles like this are the reason why the marriage rates are sinking to oblivion. The so called 'good girls' have been exposed as hypocrites and are now avoided like the plague.

Anonymous said...

Guys, don't get married. You will be sorry. Woman wants to control you, cut you off from your confidants, cut you off from your family. Then use behavior modifications like silent treatments, and "I'm mad" pouts that last for days.

My best memories are of girlfriends that were hot, but not too bright. Kind of like blow up dolls that were human. It's easy to be alpha all the time because of the huge intelligence gap, so it made life real easy. Plus lots of poontang.

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A. said...

This is downright cruel. I can't believe how cruel some women can be. I don't think the crude behaviour of a girl in 8th grade represents all females, who are more nurturing than a little spoiled brat.My ex-boyfriend used to cry in front me at the beginning of our relationship and I loved him for that, it takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable like that and I think only true alphas can show a courage like that. We broke up not because of his so called beta traits (i.e. crying), but because he became extremely alpha for me (i.e. domineering, cold and critical). I think so called "betas" are much better boyfriend materials than cold and domineering alphas.

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