Thursday, October 6, 2016

All women really aren't like that

Free Northerner points out that with judicious wife-selection, a man can reduce his statistical probability of divorce to around 10 percent:
Looking at all this, it’s easy to see the two best determinates of her divorcing you are her education and whether she has had sex prior to marriage.

A bachelor’s degree is a 40-point decrease in the odds of divorce over a high school graduate.

A women having sex with one other partner is an instant 25-point increase in the odds of divorce, with another 10-point drop for a second partner, and another for a fifth. Related to this, her having sex before age 18 is another major risk factor. Marrying her before she’s 20 is also a risk factor, but not as great a one as her having had sex with someone else; if the choice is between a virgin under 20 and older non-virgin, the young virgin is less risky. Do not marry a slut.

Religion is important, but the most important part is less what religion, but rather how devout she is. An actively religious couple is generally a 20-point decrease in the chance of divorce than a non-active couple.

Marrying an Asian is a 15-point decrease in the odds of divorce. Marrying a black was the opposite.
It won't show up in the statistics, but based on my observation, there is also a relative aspect to the divorce risk. For example, the statistics indicate that a woman with 15 prior sexual partners has a divorce risk of 70 percent, but how that applies to the specific marriage will vary greatly between the man who has had one prior sexual partner and the man who has had 100.

For the former, the knowledge that his wife has been with 15 other men is likely devastating. For the latter, that sounds like the summer after graduating from college and is of no concern to him. And given the way in which hypergamy works, it probably shouldn't be, as it's almost certain that she will, rightly, worry far more about his faithfulness than he does about hers. Rank and relativity are not easily accounted for, but they do matter.


Crowhill said...

Interesting stuff, and I particularly like your headline. The "all women are this way" theme that runs through a lot of internet conversation is ridiculous.

dc.sunsets said...

I guess I'm naive. Fifteen? One hundred? I doubt anyone with that kind of hedonism embedded will ever be monogamous. Talk about dopamine addiction. Talk about actions being ruled by impulsivity. Having sex with someone with that kind of history would be like perpetually engaging in Group Sex. Thanks, but no thanks. How are Glory Holes any worse? If MPAI, then screwing anything that says yes is like swimming in any hole that has water, even if it's one cesspool after another.

In my experience, prospective mates from intact families are much less likely to divorce, even if their parent's marriage is relatively lousy. A girl whose parents have a good marriage is probably a catch.

Monogamy is a subset of devotion. Shitty marriages result from one or both spouses exhibiting low devotion to the partnership. This is a choice. Some (most?) people are simply too stupid and impulsive to invest themselves in that kind of devotion. Such people have no honor. They are mass-minded herd animals who fuck around because the rest of the herd says "we're fucking around." Such people would absolutely swim in a septic tank if they thought everyone else was doing so.

Our society is saturated with messages telling people to Fuck Up their lives. I can't count the individual ways offered now, but low-trust, low-commitment, low-investment marital partnership is one that predates our high tech follies.

Couples who maintain separate bank accounts are headed for court. Who wants to fly in a plane whose pilot keeps the parachute handy?

dc.sunsets said...

Female hypergamy? I don't give a shit. People who embrace the mass-minded stupidity of the times are by definition throwbacks. They're carp when fishing for bass. Or an old shoe you reeled in, thinking you had a Lake Trout.

Casual sex is obviously stupid. It habituates physical intimacy without emotional intimacy. Anyone who thinks they can live like that for twenty, ten or even five years and then Voila!, rejoin the link because "they're married now" is too clueless for words.

Today's parents send their kids to college expecting them to booze it up, slut it up, F their way through the dorm or sorority or frat, and they wonder why their kids end up divorced, depressed and miserable, with kids who go from mom's house to dad's house every other week, and look like drug-addled zombies.

Obvious, but only to some of us.

Mountain Man said...

"Rank and relativity are not easily accounted for, but they do matter."

This point is key. Personally , this fact has shown itself to be true.

I also believe in the 80/100 rule. For a relationship to thrive she needs to be 100 % into you while you're roughly 80% into her. For a man who has had lots of options in the past, continues to keep himself in shape and continues to maintain tight game, this is an easy dynamic to have in place. It just organically happens.

Mountain Man said...
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Mountain Man said...
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Mountain Man said...


Its not unlikely to find most higher value women under 40 have been with at least 8-12 partners in their past. You will also find that roughly 30-50% of this total number took place in committed relationships/dating. The remaining number were usually post breakup hookups with maybe one alpha seduction thrown in. These are not slutty whores we are talking about. These are fairly picky high value women. This is the age we live in.

Matt said...

So in every scenario, one truth remains: the woman should be worried about the man.

Undocumented Pharmacist said...

Seems like "vetting" was/has been a common topic in the man-o-sphere, and while you should always do your homework and recognize the red flags, you have to remember that women don't have principles, they have drives. So when you're up, she's up and when you're down she's out.

dc.sunsets said...

"This is the age we live in."

Truer words were rarely spoken. My advice to my sons was to reject this age and choose a path less traveled. So far, it appears to be working out for them, much as it is for me. Of course, I look at the world as largely moved by malevolent forces constantly arrayed against me (and mine.) I see my wife (and she sees me) as the ultimate foxhole buddy who is there to smooth out life's vicissitudes, amplify the highs and mitigate the lows. We will be there for each other in our 90's, just as we were in our 20's, unless fate intervenes.

Our kids have kids. I hope to see their kids have kids, and see those kids hit at least their teens. My family is continuity. Life isn't just me, me, me.

I reject this age and all its "misery loves company" pop culture, its rationalization of pathology and its perpetual-child monotony of present-orientation.

hank.jim said...

Marriage is risky regardless of how many partners she has. Women feel entitled and most are princesses with high expectations. I find it comical that modern couples still do the romantic marriage proposal thing and they don't discuss marriage while in the so-called long term relationship, which should be no longer than one year before a commitment is made. Women are indecisive and won't make their move, thus worsening their already low marriage prospects. Men should stop putting women on a pedestal and make a point of discussing marriage as a business proposition that it is.

Verne said...
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Verne said...

All Woman Are Like That. Because guys stubbornly keep going for the same type of woman. Often out of the very same extended social group. Birds if a feather flock together and so do whores. If you know a girl with a 10 count, you will find none of her frinds are much below her. If she has had 20, it is same story. If you know those two girls, I really doubt you know any virgins. But the guys who do know a virgin, usually know a few or at least girls who only have had one.

dc.sunsets said...

If you're not picking a mate like you'd pick someone on whom you will be able to rely, to be able to turn your back toward (without expecting a dagger in the kidney), to be there quite literally in feast and famine, then you're just looking for a long term buddy with sexual benefits. Do everyone a favor and Don't Have Children.

People grow together, if they are predisposed to do so. Then again, MPAI and MPA herd animals whose actions are almost entirely driven by their impulses. Such sow's ears cannot be made into silk purses. A central trope of fiction is the down-on-her-luck girl who can be saved by a devoted man, or the cad who is "saved" from dogging his way through the phonebook by the love of a clever woman.

What bullshit. People spend their lives becoming better at being who they really are. Scum just gets scummier. Crazy just gets crazier. Dishonorable people just become more so. Good people just get better with age.

It isn't about qualifying a woman (or a man.) It's about cultivating the skill of discernment, of recognizing what lies beneath the surface of others. Sometimes WYSIWYG, but when it's not, that's a red flag. Perfume is usually only needed when something smells bad otherwise. Spackle usually covers faults.

Life's rules can be discerned by force of intellect alone. No rulebook is required, the lessons are on constant display for those willing to see.

Thomas Davidsmeier said...

"Life isn't just me, me, me." - dc.sunsets

You need to find someone else with this attitude and practice it yourself. That is the heart of a successful marriage and something that I only sometimes manage to do myself.

Raggededge said...

I'm encouraging my kids to marry young. I have 2 girls and a boy, nothing good happens waiting until your in your 20's to get married.

dc.sunsets said...

"and practice it yourself." Exactly. A life well lived requires us to recognize a few obvious things:
1. Happiness is a group effort.
2. Your life has co-stars to whom you have obligations.
3. You are a co-star in others' lives, and that, too, has obligations.
4. ASSHOLES don't fulfill their obligations to others.

I work to recognize the actions to which I'm obligated. Among them is to treat my wife with respect. (For example, I didn't chat up or flirt with women at sales meetings because married men who do so demonstrate vicious disrespect for their wives while looking like boorish turds.) Maintain my physical plant as best I can so she remains attracted to me. Realize that not all obligations are "fun" for me. Not all the rules are for MY exclusive benefit.

In other words, grow up, be an adult, submerge my egocentric impulses and think through what I need to do to cultivate a totality that is my "maximum happiness," AKA allows me to travel on Happiness Path.

We have a relationship based on mutuality and are extremely intertwined (something my mother didn't understand.) Of course, it helps that we began our courtship at 15 & 16, got married at 21 & 22, and have built a modest life together reveling in successes that can't be bought at any price.

PS: My wife always aspired first to be a wife and mother. Career was a distant second. Young women who are ambivalent about marriage and kids exhibit the mass-mindedness I find very disturbing.

dave1941 said...

dc.sunsets, you are in effect telling white men not to have children. While there are some trustworthy white women, the supply is woefully inadequate for the number of decent white men who'd like to have families, and these women would have to have sixteen children apiece just to maintain the current numbers of white soldiers and taxpayers.

Importing non-whites and giving them full citizenship is not the answer. If your population resembles El Salvador's, your economy and society will too.

We need to restore patriarchy, take possession of women, and watch over them 24/7 so they *can't* misbehave. This is currently illegal, so we need to crash the economy hard, bankrupt the government, and establish our own in its place. This is going to happen anyway, but let's do our part to make it happen sooner. Work less, pay less tax, and collect every government benefit you possibly can. Women and minorities voted for a welfare state, now let them pay for it.

dc.sunsets said...

@ Raggededge, the problem is that your kids are looking for needles in haystacks, and the haystack where they go to school is small. Odds do not favor finding a keeper there. None of my sons did. One found his girl in college, the other two paradoxically found success on E-Harmony. Of course, I will admit my sons are exceptional. IQ's in the 140-150 range, outstanding careers/occupations, financially secure, come from "a good home," all the stuff young "remnant-capable" women should want. Skanks, mass-minded sluts, and Alpha-carousel spluge-swallowers needed not apply. They were rejected before they got within 30 feet.

Boys need to learn to look at a girl's family. Some dysfunction may be surmountable, but truly f-ed up families produce truly f-ed up girls. I don't know much about raising girls but am cautiously optimistic that my granddaughters will be predisposed to "the right stuff" (chastity, cultivation of charm & grace, looking to score a Top Quality husband and not just play the stupid carousel) by both nature and nurture.

dc.sunsets said...

"We need to restore patriarchy, take possession of women, and watch over them 24/7 so they *can't* misbehave. "

Totally agree. Young women are F-ed up because their parents commit parental malpractice on a colossal scale. Job One is training young people to see mass-minded herd behavior as ridicule-inviting stupidity. Men and women have roles to play; denying those roles is now a National Pastime.

I still maintain that all this is a consequence of the universal illusion of unlimited resources growing from the Credit Bubble's marriage to the Cult of Equality. Once "shop til you drop" goes the way of the Do-Do bird, many of the central tenets of good citizenship and wise parenting will make a comeback...out of necessity and survival.

In the meantime, there's not much to be done. I feel sorry for white guys who reach their 30's without having found Miss Right. Just as women have a biologically determined window for reproductive success, so do men. This is the dirty little secret no one wants to admit. Madison Avenue is too busy telling people to act like children and buy whatever shit they're pushing in the latest commercial. Seeing men and women grow up and live like adults by their mid-20's would cut retail sales, and we can't have that!

So they parade celebrities and powerful/rich men around, men who can be 65 years old and still land a 29 year old model on whom to sire children. This is the male equivalent of parading Hollywood star actresses who bear children in their mid or late 40's, all the while hiding the fact that they did so with DONATED EGGS (which is tantamount to giving birth to your adopted child, too stupid to even describe.)

Life is choice. Today people are told NOT to choose. Put off choice. Have your cake and eat it too. (facepalm) We are surrounded by fools.

thenathanielm said...

"there is also a relative aspect to the divorce risk. For example, the statistics indicate that a woman with 15 prior sexual partners has a divorce risk of 70 percent, but how that applies to the specific marriage will vary greatly between the man who has had one prior sexual partner and the man who has had 100."

Of course this has already been coopted into feminist logic*tm. Then the semi reformed slut will just claim any guy who isn't happy with her N count is just not "strong enough to handle her". Granted she's basically playing the home run derby of dating, where basically she either hits it out and gets an Alpha, or not and she dies alone. But of course if there's a 10 percent chance, or even 5 of that happening, these women will absolutely not stray from their course.

Ian said...

Agree with Dave.

There are only a few questions: does she live in her father's house? Is her father a patriarch? Is she in her late teens/early 20's?

If any answer is no, its Mad Max with iPhones, post-apocalyptic dating. Not finding a nice lady, but carving a new civilization out of a culture desert.

Still needs to be done; if we're not going to colonize it, someone else will.

sigsawyer said...

Don't miscegenate with Asians. Kids will be low-T, no-identity, and will side with the leftists over you.

Marry a girl who's not "socialized human cattle". It's not sustainable for the average man as there simply aren't enough of these women to go around, but for a shitlord with a bit of game or even a solidly masculine worldview you can probably nab one. My fiance meets almost all of those criteria. Virgin when I met her, early 20's, college degree in the hard sciences, etc. Looks and charm go without saying.

In other words, learn some damn skills. If you're a celibate monk before you decide to go courting you're not gonna be able to separate the wheat from the chaff and you're going to end up blinded by a 31-year old ex-slut looking to settle down after her carousel ride. Trust me, those girls have a lot of experience playing the good girl and acting like they've been screwed over by men for their entire lives.

In other words, most modern women are whores and traditionally young men would cut their teeth on whores to keep their minds sober and prepare them for marriage with quality women. The fault of failing to keep most women not-whores lies with weak men, so I don't really give a shit that weak men are deprived of quality women. If they want to turn it around, it's only 10 years before this generation of children reach marrying age.

Sean Carnegie said...

Summed up: high school grad, near virgin, Christian, Asian woman is the woman of choice?

dc.sunsets said...

Naw, she can be a college grad so long as she skipped the "Full College Experience." Yes, possibly a near Unicorn now. And forget about her being an 8+ unless she was raised in Antarctica.

S. Misanthrope said...

No duh not all women are like that. R/K isn't a male-only thing. If you walk blindly past all the red flags into k-selected disappointment, that's on you.

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VFM #7634 said...

For example, the statistics indicate that a woman with 15 prior sexual partners has a divorce risk of 70 percent, but how that applies to the specific marriage will vary greatly between the man who has had one prior sexual partner and the man who has had 100.

I should point out that this also means that in traditional families where the kids are raised to save themselves for marriage, the boys will be at a dramatic disadvantage compared to the girls. The men face a penalty for having a low N count in that they'll have a much smaller pool of potential mates to choose from, so they're tempted to sow their wild oats in order to make themselves more attractive. Of course, that's not necessarily what's going through their heads, but that's the subconscious effect.

Take traditional Catholicism for example, where any extramarital sex is considered a mortal sin. Among the traditional Catholics I know, the women marry and convert outsiders regularly, but the men either go single, marry a traditional Catholic woman if they're lucky, or give up the faith and marry an outsider woman. Marrying an outsider woman and bringing her into the faith does happen, but is extremely rare, and I suspect that it's because while, say, Muslim men are permitted to ratchet up their N counts, traditional Catholic men are not.

This may help in fact explain why men have tended to be less religious than women, and may also have helped provide a rationale for the celibate Catholic priesthood, which was seen (I suppose subconsciously) as a catch basin for men with notch counts of or near zero and whose mate choices were therefore extremely limited.

Johnny said...

The celibate thing got started because the peasants wanted it and because the Apostle Paul rated celibacy as the best. They even had peasant riots when the church tried to roll it back. I would imagine they could undue it now if they wanted to. Perhaps it is still a good idea in some places, but it seems like an odd idea to me in the modern world.

Dexter said...

Where you going to find a virgin over the age of 17 these days, anyway?

residentMoron said...

Also mentioned in previous post:

"This is particularly true if they have not significantly altered their lifestyle in any way."

People struggle to change but major shocks can wake them up and set them on a new path.

(I wouldn't automatically include conversion to Christianity in that category unless I'd had considerable time to observe the person. There's plenty of shallow ground out there. Know your Meme, yes; Know your Parable, first.)

dc.sunsets said...

Parental malpractice is sadly pandemic. Teen girls swim in a sea of casual sex promotion, equating it to underage beer drinking. Every pop culture message encourages her to invite any and all rubber-sheathed dicks on the slightest whim, and celebrates her getting drunk and stupid in the presence of horny men with zero impulse control.

Like the stupid 18 year old who volunteered to screw Nat Parker once, then got blind drunk and gang-raped by him & his homie at a later date, many girls are just too stupid to avoid ruining themselves before a decent man could instil some self-discipline. I blame the girls' fathers for letting their mothers ruin them.

Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 said...

"Do not marry a slut". And what is that exactly? Ask a woman and it will be X + 5 or such where X is the number she admits to sleeping with. Lower risk if you marry a virgin? Unless you're into pre-adolescent child brides that isn't happening in the present USA. Look abroad.

Joshua Sinistar said...

You know when you do statistical analysis, you realize that all social sciences are crap. Anyone who believes you can predict human behavior with Math understands less about Psychology than the three card monte con man who rips people off on the streetcorner.
If Math could predict behavior, you could use a computer to rule the World by connecting everyone to algorithms to control their choices to your benefit. Sure maybe a supercomputer AI like Braniac with an IQ of One Million might be able to do something that complex, but these poindexters who probably took their sisters to the Senior Prom are not even worth arguing with.
Just that part about College Degrees reducing divorce is the kind of counterintuitive, obvious bullshit that makes social sciences the crazy uncle other scientists don't like to talk about. Social sciences are where students go when they don't want to work, but their parents have the money to send them somewhere when they become 18.

Anchorman said...

You know when you do statistical analysis, you realize that all social sciences are crap.

We have a saying where I work:

All models are bad. Some are useful.

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