Tuesday, August 2, 2016

They want you to give up

What MGTOW and PUAs have in common is that both paths are surrenders to the dyscivilizationists. Both paths are the result of literal demoralization, the MGTOW in the emotional sense, the PUA in the spiritual sense.

While the Red Pill is necessary for any Man of the West, there is only one effective way to fight for civilization, and that is to marry a white woman, have children with her, and raise those children to value and defend the West.

Does that mean taking risks? Absolutely. But so must any man who fights to defend anything. This is a long war, an intergenerational war, and the future will be won by whoever shows up for it.

Take the risks. Don't give into the despair of the MGTOW or the nihilism of the PUA. Understand that both paths are the paths those seeking to destroy you, and to destroy the West, want you to take! Take the hard road, take the dangerous road, not the safe and easy way.

193 comments:

Corpus Mentis said...

Needs to be said and shouted from the rooftops. Young women are listless today because of the myriad options and cultural brainwashing happening. If you take the initiative things will rebalance. Meanwhile, the singletons can fight over the minutae of gender pronouns til their hearts bleed out. Having said that, wouldn't those heart plugs from Dune be a great thing to have? Fit them to societal enemies 😅

Shimshon said...

I wonder if the individuals who urged the self-admitted Gamma a few posts back to divorce his wife, based solely on a few written words which may not be well-chosen fall into either category. Talk about defeatist.

Crowhill said...

You're mostly right. As the song says, "Love's a risk, but it's worth taking." And a lot of the "manosphere" advice sounds very unmanly -- running away from conflict rather than facing it.

I married a woman who is half-Asian, so I can't endorse the "marry a white woman" part of your advice.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

I can endorse that advice wholeheartedly. They give you little white babies, and you can name them after warriors, bad asses and heroes, you can pass down guns to them, teach them who they are and where they came from etc.

LeetSoga said...

Women are easy to red pill, moreso when the woman is attracted to you.

Simply be strong and confident, and she will hang onto your every word. Especially when such words deal with the harsh reality that our civilization is at the brink.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Don't take unnecessary risks, such as marriage. Be prudent. Put yourself above all. Take your own side first. Don't drop out. Life is beautiful.

j-dub said...

I could not disagree more with this argument. Not because it has no merit. As a lifelong MGTOW type, it actually speaks to me. I disagree because mathematically there are not enough white women out there that are remotely close to marriage material. So I make the analogy that what your asking is for us to turn a pig into a princess=take a twat and turn her into something that resembles a lady. I can admit your argument speaks to me, but can you admit that we would need to crank up the flab, tattoo, and piercing removal apparatuses to full blast before any of your suggested work can be done?

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

There are tens of millions of women out there, Jdub. Millions upon millions of white women. Where do you find them? In churches run by men.

Verne said...

Fatalism is part and parcel of MGTOW. Simon & Garfunkel's "I Am A Rock" is their theme song.

Grow a set of balls and live life. Yes a woman, a family is part of a good life. Avoid those things and your line is extinct.

Rex Little said...

As alluded by Crowhill, does it have to be a white woman? Seems to me that a black, Asian or mixed-race woman who's culturally Western, young, and not infected with feminism would be a better choice than a white woman who's none of those. Granted, a non-white who fits that description isn't easy to find, but there are some out there.

IrishFarmer said...

I'm married with two kids. I've done one night stands and casual relationships. I prefer marriage and kids. Its not for the faint of heart though. Or at least the first two or three years weren't.

Scott6584 said...

Well Said!

Durandel Almiras said...

Amen Vox. The Dread Ilk/VFM will grow by one white baby within the next 24hrs. The first of four, if my wife can handle it.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

My wife also wants me to bless her with one more man child.

praetorian said...

Amen.

Strategies to help young men find that woman are useful. Here's one: in your science classes (or equivalent), look for the somewhat quiet and mousey girl that people ignore. You may be surprised how attractive she becomes over time, if she doesn't fall into feminism.

praetorian said...

The first of four, if my wife can handle it.

Congrats and DEUS VULT!

Gordon said...

@praetorian: the mousey sciencey type I have a friend who went for that, although his wife is more Spacebunny than mousey.

Seven pretty daughters, modest and capable. They can deal with problem goats and cook good food. They con verse with adults in a manner respectful and charming.

If you're single and Catholic....

Gordon said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Gordon said...

@Irishfarmer: You're right, marriage and kids are not for the faint of heart. But Red Pill dating is good training for the challenge, I think. I wish I had had it, 30 years ago.

Happy Housewife said...

@Rex mixed race children tend to look like the darker of the two parents. I think he recommends white women for white men for maximum genetic heritage.

liberranter said...

There are tens of millions of women out there, Jdub. Millions upon millions of white women. Where do you find them? In churches run by men.

That statement telks me that you obviously haven't visited any churches lately. Sure, most churches have men as figureheads, but let these figureheads say or do anything that runs counter to the FI and you will instantly witness who is really in charge.

Sure, there are "millions" of white women out there, but, again, how many of them are marriageable? The answer to that question is evidenced by the fact that blogs like this one exist in the first place and that Vox has to put out an entreaty begging white guys to do what they did naturally and as a matter of course throughout human history up until this point.

One doesn't have to be MGTOW to see that j-dub has a point.

Josh said...

Don't take unnecessary risks, such as marriage. Be prudent. Put yourself above all. Take your own side first. Don't drop out. Life is beautiful.

How many white babies have you sired?

Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 said...

I'm going to disagree on this one as I've been through the divorce ringer - you haven't. Being a higher man on the totem pole what is mere minor risk to you is suicide for many, rather like dropping a paralyzed man into a tiger cage and expecting him to do as well as a highly skilled gladiator. For the non natural alpha/sigma high beta finding a "good" woman is highly unlikely in America. And if you do settle for that alpha widow/carousel rider practicing game isn't a silver bullet either. The divorce rape machine which is very much in high gear and statistically likely will be knocking in short order. Living in a van down by the river or spending significant time in prison either for missing child support payments is helping the west? It sounds like more grist for the mill. Yes yes I know I am being a negative nellie but for once I'd love to see some real concrete advice that doesn't blindly ignore the current better than 1/2 chance of getting ritually sacrificed on the family court machine when Prager and now this blog tells men to run out and throw themselves on this particular sword. I think that you are unable to adequately see the situation on the ground as your marriage is good *AND* you live in another country (that is one HELL of a bonus). But telling men to wife up the slut so long as she's white is terrible advice - you want to make *more* divorces? More male suicides from getting creamed in the American family courts? Under the present legal regime that is what's going to happen and moreover you've written about it before so I'm genuinely confused at the change of heart.

Josh said...

Amen Vox. The Dread Ilk/VFM will grow by one white baby within the next 24hrs. The first of four, if my wife can handle it.

Congrats!

Make Babies Great Again.

Josh said...

But telling men to wife up the slut so long as she's white is terrible advice - you want to make *more* divorces?

You're projecting. Vox said "man up and get married." He did not say "man up and marry those sluts." The original post doesn't contain the word slut at all.

tweell said...

Congratulations, Durandel!

I've had my oldest granddaughter living with me in preparation for college. She's doing much better than when I rescued her. The blue hair color has faded away, she's lost some weight, and she'll be seeing the dentist again soon. Smart (full scholarship to the local university), blonde, blue-eyed, 5'10", virgin and staying that way to marriage.

My oldest daughter has screwed up her life, but at least she makes an excellent example of what not to do. Now to get her son away as well...

Josh said...

I've had my oldest granddaughter living with me in preparation for college. She's doing much better than when I rescued her. The blue hair color has faded away, she's lost some weight, and she'll be seeing the dentist again soon. Smart (full scholarship to the local university), blonde, blue-eyed, 5'10", virgin and staying that way to marriage.

Does her college have a local RUF chapter?

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Well Liberranter, let's see. I was just sitting in church Sunday listening to my pastor expound on the glory of God, His Grace towards us and his unfailing love, stability and sure foundation through life's storms. As I surveyed the congregation, I noted with satisfaction the motherlode of little girls with good lookin mamas that my three sons will he able to choose a wife from.

Life looks good from where I'm sitting. Plus my little guy loves to cuddle in the morning while he's drinking his raw cow milk.

tz said...

There are plenty of marriageable white women. They aren't in the big cities, maybe except for Salt Lake City and a few others. You have to go where they are. Flyover country. Less urban areas. Here I often see families with at least 3 kids, 5 is supposedly the average for the state. Internet can be had everywhere, no crime, low cost of living.

MGTOW is a misnomer because they aren't "going" anywhere. They are sitting still and waiting for things to be better. Seattle isn't going to be as dry as Phoenix. Ever.

Immigrants are at least willing to move, a greater wrenching and for far less. If your city is sharia feminist latin American, don't expect to find more than carp and carping.

Josh said...

Sure, there are "millions" of white women out there, but, again, how many of them are marriageable?

Hundreds of thousands

Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 said...

Josh said: "You're projecting. Vox said "man up and get married." He did not say "man up and marry those sluts." The original post doesn't contain the word slut at all."

Fair play - although you misread my intention. We're assuming the men in question can properly identify and/or not make excuses for a slut when found. Selection problem. Also America isn't exactly a chaste nation of nuns - good luck finding a large population that isn't slutting around. Population problem.

James said...

There is courage to take risks and then there is foolhardiness. The liberalism that destroyed men and empowered women must be destroyed first, and then men with functioning brains will again see fit to take the normal risks of marriage and family. Think of it in terms of Marginal Economics. A core population of men will continue to get married and have kids, but, at the Margins, a growing number of men will say, with all reasonableness, "Eff that." I say again, liberalism must be destroyed first or all our efforts to rebuild marriage and families will be worthless. The problem is not men refusing to reproduce, the problem is liberals making it a stupid and dangerous thing to do to even attempt to reproduce.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

James,

Nothing will destroy liberalism faster than men raised in the nurture and admonition of The Lord. I'm putting three of them into play, maybe a fourth. Men determine culture, or not, in the case of the typical MGTOW. You want culture to change our way? MAKE IT HAPPEN. Josh and I tell you people regularly where to find good women, but people like you refuse to listen, because that would mean you then have to act.

Get up and fight, or crawl off and die.

Josh said...

I say again, liberalism must be destroyed first or all our efforts to rebuild marriage and families will be worthless.

What's your plan for destroying liberalism?

pdwalker said...

It's nice to have a touch of optimism for a change.

It's completely changed how I raise my kids.

tz said...

It isn't just finding a wife, you are marrying into a family. If your prospective wife is from a family that is itself stable and hates divorce and you will have siblings-in-law all pushing Christendom, there will be little risk as the family would disown her for even thinking about a frivorce. This will have its own problems, but it is easier to marry into Christendom than hoping your used fixer-upper won't break down (See the earlier: "The importance of N").

This is another subtle problem with leftism/feminism and even libertarianism. They try to convince you to be on your own, independent and isolated. Mainly women, but men too - don't help other men, don't think about your family. No. A marriage is between families, tribes. At least it was. Now the parents are spending the kids inheritance. The kids are on their own. Brothers and sisters are few and remote. Part of the restoration will be the restoration of close families.

Josh said...

To counter the lie that THERE ARE NO WHITE WOMEN ANYWHERE THAT ARE MARRIAGE MATERIAL, my brothers are in their mid twenties, both of them are married, and about thirty of their college friends are also married (if not more). Around a quarter of those friends have started having babies.

dc.sunsets said...

Instead of devoting time and effort to MGTOW & PUA, maybe more discussion of how to identify a marriageable woman is called for.

The men I know whose marriages were torpedoed by wifey were blind. In one case he could only see her looks while ignoring that she jumped into his bed the night he picked her up at a bar, and the weird, unnatural relationship she had with her mother and the obvious pathology of her parents' marriage. That girl was observably batshit crazy within 10 minutes of study.

I don't know how to help man who proves incapable of helping himself.

I do know that I set up my finances so that upon my and my wife's death our remaining wealth is walled off from divorcing spouses. Trust...but verify.

dc.sunsets said...

Any divorced spouse of a kid or grandkid, that is.

Josh said...

Instead of devoting time and effort to MGTOW & PUA, maybe more discussion of how to identify a marriageable woman is called for.

Is she pretty, feminine, and not bitchy? That's a pretty good way to start.

Guitar Man said...

This morning I listened to the Tom Woods podcast with Vox regarding SJWAL. In it he mentioned that there is no point in trying to convert SJWs. So I wonder if we're coming to that same conclusion with MGTOW types. Are we wasting time on MGTOWs?

Josh said...

Are we wasting time on MGTOWs?

Yes

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

DC,

Josh and I have told commenters here several times where to find marriageable women. Maybe we should get Vox to do a post containing a list of where to find them.

We will see what the whiners will find to whine about then.

Josh said...

The point isn't to convert the MGTOW, it's to convert the audience on the sidelines.

tz said...

Liberalism is a culture of death and it is committing suicide. We just need to protect and shield ourselves from the collapse. Ours is a culture of life. But you need to opt out of the collapse. Like Lot leaving the plain. There are Christendom Galt's Gulches around. But you have to decide yourself to go Galt.
Pastor Chuck Baldwin moved his entire church (dropping 501c3 status) to Kalispell Montana from Florida. But that is what it took. He's free to preach now and among the like minded instead of occupied territory.

Josh said...

TZ, are you married with children?

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

DC,

Josh and I have told commenters here several times where to find marriageable women. Maybe we should get Vox to do a post containing a list of where to find them.

We will see what the whiners will find to whine about then.

tz said...

No, but working on it. My only problem is it has taken me longer to get to this place (Wyoming). I've commented before that I couldn't find anything when I was in the Seattle/Tacoma area. My age is the only negative here, so I have to be a bit more careful in my approach and selection - I'm literally looking for a woman half my age. There is no shortage of marriageable women here, if I were 15 years younger I'd be engaged already. Or if I didn't want to have a large family. But I'm active in my (Catholic) church and on the hunt. But there is also a supply of Mormon women, so I'm reading the book of Mormon at the moment.

Josh said...

Best of luck in your search

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Same here Tz. My dad got married when he was 42 and then had five of us. You can do it.

Patrikbc said...

I think I can sum all the "good" advice here into two points.
1. Get married
2. Don't be a pussy

B.J. said...

I agree with the general sentiment here, but look at this from my perspective. I am an average guy with an average income and an average girlfriend. Everything is good right now.

The average cost of a wedding is $32,000. That is a lot of money to us. Our parents can't pay that, nor should they, they have to save their money for their own future.

Meanwhile I can think of several more productive uses of $32k:

-Down payment on a house

-Invest/save for retirement

-Start my own business

-A week-long orgy of high-class booze and hookers.

With all those options how can I justify spending $32k on a four-hour party? It's nothing less than an obscene waste of money. That doesn't even include the honeymoon. That's not a 'risk,' it's a loss.

Sure, I could go cheap and cut costs. I could push it down to the $10-$15k range, but that's still too much money. Why should I pay anything for the privilege of putting a bomb-collar around my neck and handing my girlfriend the detonator?

I have a plan for financial independence but a wedding is just a giant landmine that will blow up the whole thing, with no real benefit. It's a landmine I can clearly see and avoid, so why should I step on it?

Now think of all the guys who are worse off than me, who make less money, who have fewer prospects, and whose girlfriends are crazier and more greedy. How arrogant to tell them to jump on a landmine in order to 'save' a culture which treats them like dirt all their lives.

Consider the best odds you can get in Vegas are 50/50, yet it is still a wise move not to play. Marriage is a considerably worse deal than that.

Josh said...


I agree with the general sentiment here, but look at this from my perspective. I am an average guy with an average income and an average girlfriend. Everything is good right now.


Are y'all Christian?

Do y'all have children?

Josh said...

Also BJ, you don't have to spend anything on a wedding.

justaguy said...

True Alphas build. They build a family, their community, help civilization, and more. The problems are that the lure of easy women to an Alpha or a Sigma, warned extensively about in Proverbs makes it hard to understand the harm that open sexuality causes on both parties. The deluded Alpha or fake Alpha enjoys consort with the lurid, and too many Betas and below see that as something to want, not seeing the emptiness that accompanies it. (Which if the famous PUAs is still one by 35?) When those who emulate Alpha, emulate the family lifestyle, not the PUA lifestyle, then maybe society can change. The weak Beta or below who falls for a fairytale and becomes prey to a wild wife should be a warning to choose wisely.

tz said...

But that is why I was posting that there are plenty of women, just not in deep blue areas. I can't remember finding one woman I'd consider in WA. Right now I can think of a half-dozen potentials in general, but the church picnic is next week. I've noted which women wear dresses and veils at mass, and even which were still modest. For MMV the average is around 9, and most are at least 8 in the beauty department. It is an utterly different world here. I saw few children in WA. Here, just going to the store, it is perfectly normal to see 3 or 4 children in tow - well behaved, helping carrying the purchases.

It is also a college town, but even there, it was originally a Mormon organization, so there are a few who lean left - or here left is slightly less right. Except it is toward what should be normal, it is shocking. Shockingly normal, or what you'd expect a town that has a culture of Christendom to be.

You won't find it in the big-city Babylon, but it still exists. Not merely the 7000 who have not kissed Baal, but probably millions who just quietly have rejected the pomps of the Devil and his empty promises and just continue the Christian traditions without any fanfare, continuing the chain leading back generations.

tz said...

@Stg58 - thanks. My Father married late as well (originally divorced, a Dear John letter while he was in Europe fighting WW2). God seems to have a plan, and there's a series of providential miracles that brought me here.

Jed Mask said...

"Take the risks. Don't give into the despair of the MGTOW or the nihilism of the PUA. Understand that both paths are the paths those seeking to destroy you, and to destroy the West, want you to take! Take the hard road, take the dangerous road, not the safe and easy way."

The men of the United States of America; especially the MEN OF FAITH need to TURN BACK TO GOD and HEAR HIS VOICE! I'm talking to the CHRISTIAN MEN here:

KJV 2 Chronicles 7:14, If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

It's up to us CHRISTIAN MEN to lead The Way as Christ would have us. It starts in PRAYER and actively REPENTING from all sin and iniquity in our individual lives and those of our households and families. Every man taking care of his own first *while* helping out his brother in need.

This will only work by the Spirit of God to effect change on a national and global scale, but it's possible if the Lord Jesus Christ Wills it before His Imminent Return.

How much are you will to sacrifice?

If you are fighting for GOD as I am, you have a reason and purpose to fight for saving souls from hellfire and showing them the Love of Christ.

Like @justaguy says: True Alphas build. They build a family, their community, help civilization, and more. The problems are that the lure of easy women to an Alpha or a Sigma, warned extensively about in Proverbs makes it hard to understand the harm that open sexuality causes on both parties. The deluded Alpha or fake Alpha enjoys consort with the lurid, and too many Betas and below see that as something to want, not seeing the emptiness that accompanies it. (Which if the famous PUAs is still one by 35?) When those who emulate Alpha, emulate the family lifestyle, not the PUA lifestyle, then maybe society can change. The weak Beta or below who falls for a fairytale and becomes prey to a wild wife should be a warning to choose wisely.
___________

People need to REPENT and CHANGE THEIR MINDSET PERSPECTIVE OF DESPAIR into HOPE because if you know God, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. It's not always easy but it CAN BE DONE...

I'm just beginning to realize it. Amen.

~ Sincerely,

Bro. Jed

Bruno B. L. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bruno B. L. said...

The late Lawrence Auster never married nor had children and died a bachelor, yet no one can say he didn't fought the good fight.

You don't need to marry to fight for civilization and against the decline.

Josh said...

How many mgtow will become an Auster?

Scott C said...

Thank you for denouncing PUAs, Vox. They are teaching young men to be manipulative philanderers.

And Laguna Beach Fogey, you sound like a very selfish man.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

How many teenage boys are the next LeBron or Kobe?

Josh said...

And Laguna Beach Fogey, you sound like a very selfish man.

He's like 12

tz said...

There is a bigger picture. You used to have a local community, friends but especially family. You would have lots of aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, and nephews.

Elsewhere I've noted that you get a different society when you have a grandchild or two that is older than your youngest child. There is a solidarity, a continuity, a different social order. Siblings.

I benefited greatly by living a few blocks away from my Aunt and uncle who had 8 children, and my Grandparents were up the street. Most of the rest of the extended family was less than 30 minutes away, and that was after a minor disaspora - originally most lived within a few miles in one neighborhood.

Currently I walk to church (makes daily Mass easy). It is different even if it is a 15 minute drive.

Now compare this to the current isolation. First was the "you shouldn't have more than two children" heresy. That makes divorce easier than if you have 5 (and "women will be saved through childbearing" is another verse that the churchians hate). You can't form your own community. You can count your cousins on one hand.

Humans are social creatures. If they don't have a family, they will find people to create a community or society, but it will be warped. You can only have feminism and the hookup culture if you destroy the safety net of the family.

You get sluts (I'm not sure what else to call the carousel riders). They go in debt instead of saving, or where the woman might work while the husband is getting a good degree.

You get MGTOWs and PUAs - they want "companionship", but settle for a facade. Or end up in their Parent's basements. Blame the parents. If they had more kids, the kids would have to behave and pull their own weight. The only ones ending up dependent would have a disability, but the whole family would be there.

So both men and women are left in a barren land (pun intended), and seek whatever companionship they can. Christendom's alternative is full of life. The Grandparents transmitting their wisdom, the parents protecting, providing, nurturing, bearing, and the children respecting and learning and doing their part, along with a large extended family so that if tragedy strikes, uncles and aunts, cousins, and others will be available to help.

Molyneux notes the State substitutes for this - but in a way to create dependency. If you have a half-dozen siblings, you are secure. If you have only one you need the state.

You want liberty - you can only get it with Christendom, or something very close that is a culture of life. Where your blood relations and closest friends have enough resources to be the backstop and insurance policy. You can't even have an anarchy - as much as libertarians may want it - if amoral, uncaring, third parties have to provide the backstop at a cost.

wisdomdistillery said...

So glad to see this post. You need to make sure your marriage stays together, but it's all worth it for the ultimate joy of raising kids

Bruno B. L. said...

Not everybody can be a Lawrence Auster, that's true. But that's precisely my point: there is no single right way to fight the good fight.

Zach said...

@B.J.

So don't spring for even $10k on the wedding. (Besides, traditionally the bride's family covers this.) Do it on the cheap. If your bride-to-be doesn't get that... take the hint.

peace,
Zach

Josh said...

Not everybody can be a Lawrence Auster, that's true. But that's precisely my point: there is no single right way to fight the good fight.

People win the lottery, don't mean it's a good retirement plan.

Patter Gritch said...

I needed to hear this today. Im getting more committed to my girlfriend and I was having those "what if" thoughts. Not a pretty place to be, just need to change my mindset.

B.J. said...

@Zach, per your comment that the bride's family pays for the wedding--

Ignoring for the moment that I specifically pointed out her family doesn't have the means, your comment belies you are either from the upper classes of society or are ignorant of modern marriage funding. It has not been the norm for many years now for the bride's family to pay for weddings, more often both families pick and choose to contribute certain items piecemeal. I'll pay for the dinner hall rental, you pay for the food, etc. Even worse, couples are routinely taking out loans to pay for additional wedding costs.

https://www.lendingtree.com/personal-loan/getting-a-wedding-loan-summary
https://www.myweddingloans.com/
https://www.theknot.com/content/wedding-loans-personal-wedding-costs


@Josh--

If you know a way to get a half-carat diamond ring for free without using thievery, I'm all ears.

Josh said...

If you know a way to get a half-carat diamond ring for free without using thievery, I'm all ears.

I actually have a great diamond guy

Jourdan said...

I fought the good fight and lost. Divorce after 20 years of marriage and it was largely due to me leading from the front, being a man, which caused all of her (female) friends and family to hit her daily with the "you don't need that", "you don't want that", "you need to be independent", "you gave up your career", "are you really happy at home?" to the point where she had next to no social or family support for her once-freely given choice to be a tradwife.

It could have been worse. I ended up with 2 out of our 3 children, which is rare for a father.

But, still, I cannot in good conscience recommend to young men today to fight this fight. There is little or no social, cultural or family support for this. Yes, men need to act like men, but even the best man cannot stop the tide.

I wish it were different, but I have to call em like I see em.

Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 said...

Josh said...
To counter the lie that THERE ARE NO WHITE WOMEN ANYWHERE THAT ARE MARRIAGE MATERIAL, my brothers are in their mid twenties, both of them are married,

And to counter this all one has to do is provide opposing anecdotal evidence. White women, who come from non-broken homes, Christian background, who have *NOT* gone to college or instead attended a bible college - take out the big 10 and any liberal Uni as this turns even the best into the worst. This is a tall order and the chance of deception is or finding a surprise video is rather high and we have lots of anecdotal stories I'm sure. Numbers aren't on your side for finding this herd of unicorns Josh.

camillacameo said...

This will come across as a desperate plea for male attention, but the point is I'm sure there are many others like me.

I am a white virgin in my twenties, 5' 4", 130 lbs., B 36 W 28 H 42, waist-length hair, traditional Catholic, I hate SJWism and Islam, I can cook and bake real well and enjoy housecleaning. I really really long for lots of kids. My parents are still married and have been for almost forty years and my father taught me to fish, shoot, slaughter chickens and tan coon hides. I did go to college, but it was an orthodox Catholic university and I majored in theology not as a career path but simply because I wanted to know more about God. I have only once gotten romantic attention from a man. It's true I could do more to attract them I'm sure, (for example, I don't wear makeup or short skirts) and I'm getting towards thirty so I'm probably doomed to old maiddom. I do not blame men for this. (I mostly blame feminism for destroying the courtship structure.) But the point is, there are probably lots of girls like me out there! Most of my friends in college were thus! You may not notice them because they may not know how to make the most of their appearance, but they are there, and they are not going to make the first move, nor would that be womanly. Seek them out, win them, have children and save Western Civilization!

Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 said...

Okay lets assume you are male in your 20's and you are looking for a Mrs. in... (GOD help you) America. I can certainly see the long term benefit of saving civilization but lets talk brass tacks about minimizing your risk ending up on the family court grinding wheel. This can and does happen and its as bad or worse than you think. So what to do if you wish to follow our hosts advice about saving the world?

1. Get 2nd citizenship - pursue whatever family ties it takes to do this. Our host lives in Italy and he's likely got his hands on a EU passport. This is a good idea for lots of reasons but you need an ejection seat in your fighter craft. Yes game is your suite of electronic counter measures but even the most apex-alpha of fighter jocks have that red lever just in case, so should you.

2. Foreign bank account. You need a tupence in your shoe. Do *NOT* be that guy who has everything sitting in a joint account or everything owned jointly - you will end up on the street if she decides she's not haaaaapy and you've a good chance of not getting any warning about this. Get an account out of reach in your name that the family courts can't get ahold of. Yes they'll demand you hand it all over during the process but they'll demand a lot of things and if its somewhere else they'll need your compliance to do this.

3. Make it clear what happens if she pulls the pin. "Hey if we divorce I'm not paying you a cent. I'm out on the first plane to (your new country here)". The US has no authority to take a foreign passport and if they do walk into your embassy and get another ... on the way to the airport.

The reason women drop the divorce bomb is because of the tremendous positive incentives to do so. They are sold this bill of goods and financially rewarded. Take away the money and let her chew on being a "Welfare queen" and maybe she'll think twice. If she believes however that the *only* difference between her life post divorce and pre-divorce is that she gets to decide how to spend your money without your interference then you are asking for it.

Good luck saving civilization pilot

Jourdan said...

camillacameo - bless you, sweetheart. If I wasn't 51, you'd be getting attention from me, I can assure you of that!

Hammerli280 said...

Camilla, some advice...

First, check your wardrobe. A flattering outfit can add significantly to attractiveness....and an unflattering one is often seen as a statement that you're off the market. The dimensions you posted indicate that a wide skirt (as opposed to a hip-hugging cut) would work well. Knee length is a perennial. Men are visual, bait the hook.

Second, go fishing...for men. Forget bars, try sporting clubs. Martial arts, shooting, fencing...I particularly like the latter as a way for meeting people.

Third, take a look at your personality. Are you approachable? If a man smiles at you, do you smile back? Men are put off by a constant scowl. Get him talking, then listen...and if he does likewise, talk. Converse. If looks are the bait, personality is the hook. Character is the line for reeling men in, but it sounds like you have that.

Fourth, don't count yourself out. The Wall is partly a product of age...but more a product of late nights, booze, and drugs. Late 20s is not one foot in the grave.

Cheer up.

Unknown said...

``I do know that I set up my finances so that upon my and my wife's death our remaining wealth is walled off from divorcing spouses.'' dc.sunsets, could you elaborate a bit? I'd like to know more.

Unknown said...

``The average cost of a wedding is $32,000.''

25 years ago, my wife and I spent $50 on our wedding. She refused a ring - too wastefull. If your prospective wife won't go for that, she's a poor prospect.

camillacameo said...

Jourdan and Hammerli, thank you. I will keep that advice in mind. I've been looking for redpill advice for women on getting a husband--particularly, advice from men--and haven't found much.

Unknown said...

Man of the West, there is only one effective way to fight for civilization, and that is to marry a white woman, have children with her

Witness the presumptive victory of the Feminine Imperative over faith in the West. God is the womb of the white woman. His throne belongs to her. Adam would be proud.

Actually, a more persuasive argument for the inevitability of the decline of the West would be hard to find.

Racialism is a weak force. Righteousness is a strong force. Over the strong force, neither the white woman nor her husbanders have any power. They have no power to save anyone (a.k.a civilization) - all the less when laboring under the delusion that they do. If
anything teaches us this, it's the degenerative ratchet that has brought the West to this point.

God is the strong force, and His will be done. Racialism is a weak force. Keep the strong and weak forces in perspective or you will find yourself on the losing side.

thenathanielm said...

"Sure, there are "millions" of white women out there, but, again, how many of them are marriageable?"

He never said it was gonna be easy, Son. Working for civilization is gonna require making yourself better and more attractive to rate dating those desirable women. That's the gripe with MGTOWs, they want to make all sorts of excuses as to why the Can't/Won't make the effort to do that. Any effort beats obstinately refusing to even try, for fear of having to take responsibility for failure

LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra said...

Perhaps its despair ridden, men going at things alone bodes very poorly. PUA and men going at it alone are always treated with distant compassion by me for the reason they cannot co-exist with (neither can I) feminism, its a reply to the BS and ruined relationships or ruined morale among men and women, its sad. Game theory and to some degree men finding out that going at life alone isn't working for them.

I cannot and will not date locals due to a host of problems, most of which is poisoned by rumors started by boomers that genx believes because genx and mil'lens are easily taken or impressed by stupid decadent boomers by their money - I wont abide by such nullsense. I'm stuck up that way to protect myself from frightful wrong men and keep in mind I'm the anti feminist. I dont have time for low t lady haters, low t types are ragers, scary.

No where else do men act they way they do around here, its a case study in why Game and Reality is so needed. This is why I hold compassion for PUA/men going alone in that giving up, the despair is wrong on them, some men act like they are 100 years old, they just give up. It is depressing and absurd to be around.

Anyhow, lets not give up, lets all pray and have compassion for this matter.

Thanks for all the men do.

Deaths Head said...

----What MGTOW and PUAs have in common is that both paths are surrenders to the dyscivilizationists. Both paths are the result of literal demoralization, the MGTOW in the emotional sense, the PUA in the spiritual sense.---

WRONG! they are both paths to understanding human nature, in the old days we called that being enlightened, so those intelligent people do not keep sticking their hand in a fire after they get burned by it. Once is more than enough to convince me it's a bad idea to continue the practice.

----While the Red Pill is necessary for any Man of the West, there is only one effective way to fight for civilization, and that is to marry a white woman, have children with her, and raise those children to value and defend the West.----

Where exactly is this west you speak of? What city isn't being overrun by the third world, which companies are ignoring gender and race quotas and are English only? Do you know what happens to the average white guy who applies for a job, apparently you don't. Are you talking about the civilize protests, riots, polar bear hunting, smash and dash, and all the other crime waves hitting everywhere.... THAT CIVILIZATION??? You want me to go to war AGAIN for that???

----Does that mean taking risks? Absolutely. But so must any man who fights to defend anything. This is a long war, an intergenerational war, and the future will be won by whoever shows up for it.----

Look up risk, it doesn't mean making idiotic and foolish decisions based on a delusional fantasy. Where is the incentive, what is the payoff, why should I die for those who despise me? The "intergenerational war" you want to fight is over, WE LOST and there is no reset button, just like rome 1000 years ago, the fight is over and you can thank all those women you want everyone to wife up for it.

-----Take the risks. Don't give into the despair of the MGTOW or the nihilism of the PUA. Understand that both paths are the paths those seeking to destroy you, and to destroy the West, want you to take! Take the hard road, take the dangerous road, not the safe and easy way.-----

LMAO... I already took the hard road, I did the dangerous, I ignored safety and my reward was females who deride and condemn me. Media that insults me daily, and a government that sold me out to please women who wanted a free ride for their brood of thug spawn.

No thanks, you can keep your "western society" and "die for her matriarchy" because I sure wont risk what I've built up so some psychotic jackal can sit around and sneer with a coven of harpies at the sock hop while she looks for 3rd world reject.

Nope... not a chance, not going to happen, she can burn with her precious feminism and equality.













LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra said...

I agree with what Vox has stated here - its truth, he doesn't expect you to understand or agree. Chatuea Heartiste and so many others have it correct to some degree...yet...

Death Head come hither, start reading Vox Day, please don't go down this road, I see how the young men are damaged from it everyday in WV...Stop before its too late, this is no good for you...

But the women who want to be rational, honorable and loving offer compassion and support to men like this, I dont mean sex, or dating or anything, I mean my, our prayers because we all understand where a man like this is coming from:

"LMAO... I already took the hard road, I did the dangerous, I ignored safety and my reward was females who deride and condemn me. Media that insults me daily, and a government that sold me out to please women who wanted a free ride for their brood of thug spawn.

No thanks, you can keep your "western society" and "die for her matriarchy" because I sure wont risk what I've built up so some psychotic jackal can sit around and sneer with a coven of harpies at the sock hop while she looks for 3rd world reject.

Nope... not a chance, not going to happen, she can burn with her precious feminism and equality."

Trust me I get it but it leaves us anti feminists lost without our men, lost without dad when dad dies, lost in that we won't scale your walls - (I already long ago accepted that I never ever seek to change or alter any man whom is not my husband yet all I can offer is understanding) but only offer prayers and empathy. NOt saying you've been hurt, not disagreeing just stating that its true the women stateside are human wreckage and tormentors; godless thanks to the NEA, felled due to feminism and in this irrational retarded fear that innocent men you like are rapists when in fact, you are a good person that got hurt someplace and for that I offer my prayers - you are not alone boy, turn to God, its true the dys-justice system is set up against you, its true the system is against you but so many of us young people are for you - never against you - we were all financially raped, mind raped, ruined by these F-cked up godless policies...

Bastiat's Ghost said...

Nah Vox, civilization can burn for all I care. If I do ever marry she won't be an American woman. She will be a latina or West African.

LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra said...

Woman outside of the states are not whorish, loony, nightmares but warm, inviting and loving.. we can't get poisoned by the West.

LP9 Solidified in Gold! Rin Integra said...

I dont have cable tv or a phone - I left cable tv in 1999 over the most awful predictive programming. Upon caring for family in 2001 I found cable tv again, its pure post americant culture shock. In 2016 I ended my landline because I too wont abdie by so much of what ya all are grieving over. But you cannot give up, forget fear and just try to work thru these times you are handed.

I too am assailed by horror shows, human wreckage to the point I dont know if they have souls or not so of course I retreat to ballet, music, painting, I too retreated. I retreat prayer, let us pray thru this dyscivic times Vox has outlined many times - the man has an IQ over 170 -he knows his stuff, he is trying to help!

The Remnant said...

Sure, I'll get married again. Just as soon as the institution of marriage exists again.

will said...

find a surrogate mother

Unknown said...

What if you can't have children due to a biological condition? Is it then ok to just enjoy the decay?

Thanks, J. said...

Middle aged, low income, OK? Sure I'll get a good, trustworthy woman.....LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
And..AND...MARRY HER.
And like somebody above already said, when the institution of marriage exists again.

Thanks, J. said...

PS: Well I can. I can. I'll need to take care of my wife's children from her X. Cuck a doodle do. No. F--k the Alt-Right racists that'd want me to tool myself for their already lost cause. I'll ruin what's left of my life for mediocre white trash leftovers?
Hey so this, dear reader, is what crosses my mind when I'm talked to like this.

Austin Ballast said...

Those who say we should quit are pushing for the extinction of the human race.

Go be with all the losers if you want. Success requires risks. Some may try and fail. So what? Get up and try again! Perhaps you will never have a successful marriage, but the alternative is the end of society and God will hold everyone accountable for that on the Judgment Day!

residentMoron said...

Don't be blaming the AltRight because you make bad decisions. Perhaps, after admitting you can't make a good decision about who to marry, you could consider that other people who think differently to you might be a valuable source of intelligence on that question?

In the multitude of counsellors there is safety.

Zion's Paladin said...

@Camilla

Well you got my attention. And I don't have a reason not to pursue. Why not drop me a line on my e-mail?

Thanks, J. said...

@ resident Moron, you'd do better naming who it is you are replying to. Just a posting tip. I missed who is "blaming the Alt-Right". They came along decades after society declined into feminist consumer driven debauched anti-male Turd World infested teetering on collapse crap.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

DeathS Head,

Go run away and give up. Why are you named Deaths Head again?

will said...

Quite sad that after all these years of waking men up the end result is recommendation to marry anyhow. Ridiculous. At least provide a lists of reasonable tactics to proceed: put your house and investment accounts under your parent's name to shield them in a divorce and which becomes inherited assets, consider a surrogate mother, choose to live in a non-alimony state (TX, IN, etc.), write a prenup, etc etc.

Verne said...

Whenever this subject comes up, it never fails to draw a pack of cowards who are trying to to paint their failure in life and fear of pulling themselves back up as intelligence.

Those of us who did not do it your cowardly way and are thriving. We are just unicorns I guess. All we really are, we are called men.

For the record I failed the first time, when I was 22. My girl had fallen for the bad ass I was. I did what society said and softened myself to be a good husband. She had fallen for a hard man, a dangerous man, not the man she said she wanted me to be now. I had to kick her cheating ass out as she went after bad boys. But I learned to never be the man that society says I needed to be. Never change for a woman or you will be turned into something they do not respect. My next long term relationship, She was also after the man I really was. That man is a bit rough, stubborn, hard at times. This time I stubbornly stayed that man. It has lasted 30+ years, 2 kids, 3 grand kids and counting. Any man not knowing the joy of what I have described is to be pitied. Because at 60 years old, when you look back, nothing else seems very important in comparison

Unknown said...

For those who are insisting, correctly, on the dangers of marriage: shack up. A license from the state changes nothing in God's eyes.

Mountain Man said...

Heres a scenario:
You marry a white woman, she's a great wife and would make a great mother. You're both in mid 30's when you get married - you try and have children but are unable to.
What then ?

Jed Mask said...

@Mountain Man

"Here's a scenario:
You marry a white woman, she's a great wife and would make a great mother. You're both in mid 30's when you get married - you try and have children but are unable to.
What then?"

Well, under God's Commandment that married couple is NOT to divorce but to stay married. Now if the husband and wife can't have kids they have three different routes I'd say.

1) Ask God in PRAYER if He may provide them seed and the ability to birth children somewhere down the line; kind of a "Abraham and Sarah" situation.

2) Accept the possibility that God does not want the husband and wife to have children but to stay together.

3) Perhaps seek God's Counsel in prayer to see if He's leading them to adopt some child or children to raise as life presents the opportunity.

______________

Other than those three, I don't see much else variation... Amen.

~ Bro. Jed

Austin Ballast said...

Watch going the adoption route. That way is fraught with peril and does not always work out as the touchy stories tell.

I face a life without children even though we raised 4. Turns out they were someone else's children after all.

I will still proceed. I am trying to figure out how to have some proper relationships with other relatives (none alive on my side, my wife's family is fairly messed up) without being stupid and taken advantage of. I will at least write and continue to care for my wife, as she will do for me.

When I noted that it may not always turn out well, I was speaking from experience. But I am not going to quit and let everything die just because I am butthurt.

Jeffrey Johnson said...

CamillaCameo- I've got a book coming out in about a month or so targeted toward women that explains what men want from women. You will probably find it interesting. It is targeted to the Mormon Community, but about 85% to 90% will apply to you and girls like you.

Mountain Man said...

Brother Jed -Thanks for your kind advice. Its appreciated.
Austin Ballast - Your cross is certainly a heavy one to bear. I assume, by the way you wrote, that your wife cheated on you ( repeatedly) without your knowledge. I will pray that God gives you strength as you work through this .

csillar said...

well played, vox. do I need to come with the facts about women that are repeated already like countless times?

I would be a tradcon, but since there is no women of true value, I'm staying mgtow. as soon as I happen to find one, I'll be happy to marry her, after having established my trust. that, my friend, in my current stance, takes time. and women are not willing to wait that time out for us like minded guys to commit.

but I actually think I didn't say anything new, again.

Josh said...

NO WOMEN OF TRUE VALUE THAT ARE WORTHY OF MY NOBLE SEED

csillar said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
csillar said...

great arguments, Josh.

Austin Ballast said...

No Mountain Man,

No cheating by my wife. Things only clicked once on conception and that ended before birth. Only did anything to stop things for the first 3 months of our marriage, but no protection since, but no children.

We adopted a sibling group. I had thought it was a great way to build a family. Turned out they had more group loyalty and loyalty to their birth family than us and I only have 1 son with ongoing contact and can't really rely on him for much as he is mentally closer to his birth family.

I was a voluntary cuck, though I didn't realize it going in. I am fine with people pursuing adoption as a true calling, but don't believe all the stories. We were great people until suddenly we weren't. Quite a mess.

A lot of our struggle was the system working against us (and me especially) just like it works against divorced dads.

I can't change things though, so I have to go forward from here. Still tough, but I still have to live with the fact I have no next generation to build into. I am figuring out now how to properly do what should have happened in my own genetic line in a proper manner.

Robert American said...

You guys should check out knightsofthewest.com

Deaths Head said...

@Stg58/Animal Mother -- Go run away and give up. Why are you named Deaths Head again?


For such a bible thumper prattling on about saving humanity by increasing Divorces, St single mums, and even more alimony payments while you die for a culture that despises you...


Revelation 6:8 --- And I looked, and behold, a pale horse! And its rider’s name was Death, and Hades followed him. And they were given authority over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword and with famine and with pestilence and by wild beasts of the earth.

I'm here to let you fools know what looms on the horizon, and to laugh when you beg for mercy after the folly of wasting time on western women who love drinking male tears.

Laramie Hirsch said...

I'm an English/German/Scottish mix. My wife is from the Philippines. Been married 8 years, and we have 4 children. Maybe 5 by next year. We homeschool, go to Mass, make a good living. We're complete outliers to the typical Filipina/American marriage. We're a young couple. But often, I see older/old men marrying filipinas, and maybe having one kid.

Drew said...

These messages always come with perfect timing in my life. Just when I start having thoughts of returning to the old ways of casual relationship, ONS, and ego validation I'm re-encouraged to walk the difficult path with the narrow gate.

After looking for months i had thought i had found a girl which was worth the time and effort. She was slightly below the average girl i've dated and had only been with one 1 bf through out college, so I'm assuming she hadn't been riding the carousel. When things started to get serious and expectations were being set, she dipped. Only looking for something fun since she had wasted what she thought was her "college experience" being exclusive with one guy.

This has had me very discouraged the past weeks and i've even been getting in contact with old hookups. But, I'm reminded to not lose faith even with the failures and keep fighting the good fight.

Thanks, J. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Deaths Head,

If that's why you're here, maybe we should call you Cassandra.

Deaths Head said...

Stg58/Animal Mother said... some more idiotic tripe because he lacks the mental faculties required to support his argument. His only tactic is to make accusations, defame, insult, and whine for attention so somebody.... ANYBODY... might believe he is a big tough man when it's painfully obvious he isn't and never will be.

Go ahead slick... Act a fool... Dance little monkey... Dance some more...

Austin Ballast said...

Nah, too much fun watching you dance.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Omega!

Deaths Head said...

Deaths Head said...His only tactic is to make accusations, defame, insult,

Stg58/Animal Mother said...maybe we should call you Cassandra.

Deaths Head said...His only tactic is to make accusations, defame, insult,

Stg58/Animal Mother said...Omega!

The evidence speaks for it's self kiddo... Take your juvenile posturing back to kindergarten, it may work better among your peers in the sandbox, because it sure as hell doesn't work on me.

I have no intention or need to defend, rescue or save women who openly despise men, ridicule and falsely accuse men, lie about men, and have no appreciation or respect for men. As I've said before you are free to go die on the plantation for your matriarchy... I WILL NOT!!

Josh said...

I WILL NOT!!

So brave

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

STAMP THOSE LITTLE FEETS

Rex Little said...

For those who are insisting, correctly, on the dangers of marriage: shack up. A license from the state changes nothing in God's eyes.

It doesn't change much in the government's eyes either. Without it, you're still on the hook for child support if she bails. And if there's a custody fight, you might get a better deal if you're married.

camillacameo said...

Zion's Paladin, I'm flattered, but upon clicking your name, I find no email address.

Nate said...

"I'm here to let you fools know what looms on the horizon, and to laugh when you beg for mercy after the folly of wasting time on western women who love drinking male tears. "

VALIENT KEYBOARD WARRIOR!!! WE ARE ALL AMAZED AT YOUR AWESOME KEYBOARD BRAVERY!

Josh said...

Hey guys,

If a women gives you an opening to pursue her, you should go ahead and pursue her if you're interested.

Nate said...

"
If a women gives you an opening to pursue her, you should go ahead and pursue her if you're interested."

You mean they shouldn't stand back and announce that they will allow her to pursue them? IN THE TOTALLY NORMAL WAY OF TRADITIONAL BUDS???

Josh said...

You mean they shouldn't stand back and announce that they will allow her to pursue them? IN THE TOTALLY NORMAL WAY OF TRADITIONAL BUDS???

M'lady, I hath thrown down mine gauntlet of courtship to thee, thou must take the lead and pursue me that I might deign to provide thou WITH romantic attention.

Josh said...

You mean they shouldn't stand back and announce that they will allow her to pursue them? IN THE TOTALLY NORMAL WAY OF TRADITIONAL BUDS???

M'lady, I hath thrown down mine gauntlet of courtship to thee, thou must take the lead and pursue me that I might deign to provide thou WITH romantic attention.

de ti said...

You're out to lunch on this, Vox. There aren't anywhere nearly enough marriageable women in the US to make your plan happen, much less even to give some of these men regular sex and a family. Most women are either crazy, slutty, stupid, broken, damaged or mentally ill. Most women are nowhere near marriage material. The most they're good for are short term relationships and plate spinning. That's what they wanted -- to have attractive alpha men spin them as plates. That's what they wanted; so that's what they shall have.

The people on this thread claiming there are millions of marriageable women out there in churches are delusional. That's just.. insane, really. Churches are the worst places in the US right now to find women to marry. Most of them are sluts, want to be sluts, or are trying to be sluts.

Further, most men are deltas and gammas. They aren't alphas or sigmas, or even betas. Most men are nowhere nearly attractive enough to get and keep the interest of a woman, even a decently raised woman, for 3 decades or more, enough to get a gaggle of children raised and into society. It is just Not. Going. To. Happen. Most men will live lives without regular sex going forward. Most men will not marry and will not have children (at least not on purpose).

This suggested plan is not going to work, because the women don't want it to, and the men don't have what it takes to make it work.

Josh said...

Most men will live lives without regular sex going forward. Most men will not marry and will not have children (at least not on purpose).

So thousands of years of human behavior is going to change within a few years?

Nate said...

"The people on this thread claiming there are millions of marriageable women out there in churches are delusional. That's just.. insane, really. Churches are the worst places in the US right now to find women to marry. Most of them are sluts, want to be sluts, or are trying to be sluts. "

Shut up faggot. You're a bitter little pussy who's seeing what he wants to see. You're dreaming up a fantasy world where everyone else is to blame for your failure but you.

Fuck you.

Get off your lazy ass... take a good hard look in the mirror for once.. and for fucks sake... grow the fuck up and take some responsibility.

Fuck.

de ti said...

"So thousands of years of human behavior is going to change within a few years?"

It already has changed, at least temporarily, because of the particular conditions and market we're in now. It has already changed because of this:

"Most men are nowhere nearly attractive enough to get and keep the interest of a woman, even a decently raised woman, for 3 decades or more, enough to get a gaggle of children raised and into society."

and this:

"There aren't anywhere nearly enough marriageable women in the US to make your plan happen, much less even to give some of these men regular sex and a family. Most women are either crazy, slutty, stupid, broken, damaged or mentally ill. Most women are nowhere near marriage material. The most they're good for are short term relationships and plate spinning. That's what they wanted -- to have attractive alpha men spin them as plates. That's what they wanted; so that's what they shall have."

de ti said...

Nate:

If you really believe there are millions of marriageable women in churches, you are insane and delusional and you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. It has nothing to do with me personally. It has to do with conditions currently existing on the ground.

Unknown said...

``It doesn't change much in the government's eyes either. Without it, you're still on the hook for child support if she bails. And if there's a custody fight, you might get a better deal if you're married.''

True about the child support, but you were planning on supporting your kids anyway, right?

If this stuff is an issue for you, you need to consult with a lawyer before you get serious with any woman, and find out how to minimize the leverage an unhappy woman could have. Pre-nupitals, what state to live in, finances, shack up versus a state license, get your name on the kids' birth certificates or try to avoid it ... talk to a lawyer.

Nate said...

"If you really believe there are millions of marriageable women in churches, you are insane and delusional and you have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. "

of course I don't. I mean I've regularly attended mainline churches my whole life... and I married a hot blonde virgin church girl... and I happen to attend a church with tons of excellent young lady prospects... but yep. you're totally right. They are all sluts. All of them. Even the virgins.

/facepalm

Crawl in a hole you defeatist little shit.

de ti said...

Nate:

The few churches you have attended are not a cross section of America, evidently.

You don't know what the "excellent young lady prospects" do when they're not in the pews. What, you follow those girls around and know about their personal lives? You know they're virgins? And you know this how.... because, they TOLD you?

That's ABSURD.

Most of those women you see on Sunday morning were bouncing on Harley McBadboy's cock or sucking Fuckbuddy Rockbanddrummer's dick in the bar bathroom just a few hours before.

Josh said...

You don't know what the "excellent young lady prospects" do when they're not in the pews. What, you follow those girls around and know about their personal lives? You know they're virgins? And you know this how.... because, they TOLD you?

It's called community.

de ti said...

Josh:

It's called lying. It's called saving face. It's called hypocrisy. It's called duplicity. Women are supremely skilled in the arts of deception and manipulation.

You don't really know those girls.

Josh said...

It's called lying. It's called saving face. It's called hypocrisy. It's called duplicity. Women are supremely skilled in the arts of deception and manipulation.

You don't really know those girls.


I didn't suggest asking them. Nate didn't either.

If they're part of the community, they will have a reputation within that community...

This is basic stuff.

Nate said...

"You don't know what the "excellent young lady prospects" do when they're not in the pews. What, you follow those girls around and know about their personal lives? You know they're virgins? And you know this how.... because, they TOLD you?"

No you blithering idiot.

I know because I know them. I know their parents. I know how they spend their time and who they spend their time with.

I know because its my business to know. I have sons.

Nate said...

"You don't really know those girls. "

but YOU do.

de ti said...

"If they're part of the community, they will have a reputation within that community...

This is basic stuff."

And those girls will be very good at confining their sexual conduct to outside your "community". They'll lie, obfuscate and hide, and conduct their sexual lives well out of reach of your "community". I'm talking about young women in college, 18 and up. They know how to conceal their conduct from you, their parents, and anyone else they want.

Wake up, man.

de ti said...

"I know because I know them."

No you don't. You know what they choose to show you.

"I know their parents."
T
Their parents don't know them. Their parents know only what their daughters choose to show them. See my comment to Josh. Women who are 18 and up, college age and up, know how to conceal their sexual lives by conducting them well out of reach of their "communities" and away from church folk and those who know them.

High school girls are different. Sure, you MIGHT know more; but you still don't know. Neither does Dad who is overworked and stressed out (assuming he even lives with the family) or Mom who is usually zonked out on pills or booze, or has her face buried in her phone and her Pinterest account.)

"I know how they spend their time and who they spend their time with."

No you don't. You know what they choose to show you about how they spend their time and who they spend their time with. You know what they choose to show/tell you, and that's ALL you know.

"I know because its my business to know. I have sons."

It isn't your business to know the lives of other people's daughters. You can't possibly know that. Again - you know only what those young women choose to show you. The fact that you have sons is irrelevant.

Nate said...

" I'm talking about young women in college, 18 and up. They know how to conceal their conduct from you, their parents, and anyone else they want."

That's a cute little fantasy world you live in.

The truth however... is that lifestyles never stay secret.

Unknown said...

De ti, I can tell that you don't live in a small town.

Nate said...

ya know.. there is this cute blonde... married... 2 kids. I knew she was having an affair and who she was having the affair with 2 months after we moved to this town.

She had a lot more to lose than some college girl. Yet somehow we still all knew.

de ti said...

Unknown, I used to live in a small town. It's not much different no matter where you live. In fact it's worse now than it was when I grew up in Backwaterville USA. The dads are divorced out of the families. The moms are zonked out, stressed out, zoned out on cellphones and Kardashians, and banged out by Harleys and ALphas and Fuckbuddys. That's everywhere, from Big City to Backwaterville.

Back then, before the information nation, girls knew how to hide, conceal, manipulate, obfuscate and lie about their sex lives. They're 100 times better at it now.

de ti said...

"Yet somehow we still all knew."

Wow. One married woman having an affair that she wasn't very good at concealing somehow disproves the fact that women are masters at the arts of deception and manipulation, and that girls learn this at young ages, and that girls learn how to conceal their sex lives from people they might not want to know about it.

You'll have to do better than that.

Nate said...

"You'll have to do better than that. "

No. Really I don't. The point is to illustrate how the world works. Its just one example among hundreds.

You... in your blind ignorance... pride... and gamma rage simply cannot accept that your problems are largely your own fault.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Lay down and die, Deti. That seems to be your advice.

Josh said...

Back then, before the information nation, girls knew how to hide, conceal, manipulate, obfuscate and lie about their sex lives. They're 100 times better at it now.

In the age of tinder, instagram, and snapchat?

Josh said...

The whole WOMEN ARE MASTERS OF DECEPTION AND MANIPULATION THEY ARE BASICALLY MASTER WITCHES mindset is the putting women on a pedestal just as much as the WOMEN ARE PURE AND HOLY mindset is.

de ti said...

@ Nate: The world doesn't work that way. Not anymore. And you keep wanting to make this about me. Your ad hominems are irrelevant and only serve to discredit you. This isn't about me. This is about society and how to live in it as it is, not in the fantasy world you've constructed.

@ Animal Mother: My advice is "protect yourself" and "don't waste time trying to find needles in haystacks."

@ Josh: Most parents know nothing of social media beyond Facebook and Twitter.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Good point, Josh.

de ti said...

"The whole WOMEN ARE MASTERS OF DECEPTION AND MANIPULATION THEY ARE BASICALLY MASTER WITCHES mindset is the putting women on a pedestal just as much as the WOMEN ARE PURE AND HOLY mindset is."

"BASICALLY MASTER WITCHES"

Calm down, Josh. Put down the strawman before you hurt yourself.

It's really just acknowledging women are human. That's not pedestalization. That's just acknowledging the world and how it truly is.

de ti said...

"Josh and I have told commenters here several times where to find marriageable women. Maybe we should get Vox to do a post containing a list of where to find them."

Let's see the list, Josh and Animal Mother.

Josh said...

It's really just acknowledging women are human.

No, it's not. Because humans are not these super powered masters of manipulation and deception.

Josh said...

Let's see the list, Josh and Animal Mother.

Southern girl who was heavily involved in RUF in college.

de ti said...

STrawmanning again, Josh.

Let's see the list, Josh.

de ti said...

RUF? Reformed University Fellowship? The Presbyterian campus ministry? A college ministry associated with a dinosaur watered down mainstream Churchian denomination?

You've GOT to be kidding.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Very simple, Deti. Women worth marrying are found in churches run by men. Not males, not female pastors. Men.

de ti said...

Animal Mother:

What churches are run by men?

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

You'll know as soon as you walk inside...

Josh said...

You've GOT to be kidding.

RUF is PCA. PCA != PCUSA.

If you want to talk about sample size, I know probably thirty or forty young married couples from five or six colleges. All solid.

I think I've mentioned before that my younger brothers have been in around twenty plus weddings over the last three years. The vast majority of those were their RUF friends.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

The real problem is when you find women worth marrying and you're Gamma Rage sends then running.

Guitar Man said...

If all you see out there are a bunch of lying, cheating women, then you are living a hedonistic lifestyle or you have this extreme bias against women, the reverse gamma, if you will, causing you to see every single woman as a slut.

Heck, I live in dirty northern NJ, and I can think of plenty of good fine Christian girls with relative ease.

Josh said...

Heck, I live in dirty northern NJ, and I can think of plenty of good fine Christian girls with relative ease.

No way man I've seen that Jersey shore show

Nate said...

"It's really just acknowledging women are human. That's not pedestalization. That's just acknowledging the world and how it truly is. "

If that's all it is... then nothing has changed. The women of today are no different than the women of 50 years ago of 1000 years ago.

Congrats dummy.

You just eviscerated your own position.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Gym Tan Laundry

Josh said...

Laundry is something your wives should be doing for you

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

I do my own laundry. My wife doesn't possess the necessary folding skills I require.

Josh said...

But if your wife isn't doing your laundry she might have free time to manipulate and deceive YOU about stuff...because she's a master wizard at that stuff...

Guitar Man said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown said...

If you have privacy in your town, if you can hide anything, it's not a small town.

de ti said...

Yeah, well....

Good luck "fighting for Western Civ." I'll be taking care of me and mine.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Gay

Sam Gem said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sam Gem said...

Married alphas have to understand that just because they have found a unicorn wife doesn't mean the same will be possible for most men. Not all men are natural alphas, and only a small percentage of women are suitable for marriage to an enlightened man. The non-alpha will most likely have to settle for less than an ideal wife and thus be more subjected to the whims of hypergamy, post-feminism, and a hostile legal environment than an alpha would in his marriage. Natural alphas like Vox Day and Stefan Molyneux criticize men who choose MGTOW because they lack the empathy they should have for the majority of men who are not natural alphas who may need to work much harder and much longer than they had to to find a suitable wife, which may never happen. I see nothing wrong with men who understand that the effort and the risks involved for the non-alpha to decide to focus on other pursuits that can give him some satisfaction and contentment in his life if the call of the unicorn is much more likely to be a unrealistic pipe dream.

Nate said...

and yet... amazingly... non-alphas get married quite happily every day.

Its almost like... you're full of shit.

Nate said...

"Good luck "fighting for Western Civ." I'll be taking care of me and mine. "

You are yours? You mean you and your blowup doll?

You don't have any "yours" sugartits. You just got you. Which is to say... you have nothing.

de ti said...

Wow, Nate. You're such a he-man.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

HE-MAN

AND THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE

HE-MAN!

Sam Gem said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Sam Gem said...

Men may get married quite happily every day but most of them end up miserable. If you want to save western civilization have more kids, don't insult men who have who have not found a suitable wife and chosen not to sacrifice themselves in this hostile post-feminism environment.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

HE-MAN

AND THE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE

HE-MAN!

Zion's Paladin said...

@Camilla

Oops. It's Zion's dot Paladin at Gmail dot com.

Nate said...

"Men may get married quite happily every day but most of them end up miserable. "

end up miserable... and how do you think these little mgtow pussies are going to end up? You think they aren't going to look around when they are 50 and realize they are doomed to be alone forever?

you're gonna eat a bullet one day... and no one is gonna give a damn.

csillar said...

Nate,

again, your strawman fallacies. If you want to look up MGTOWs that are older than 50, search for vention1mgtow and war horse on youtube. they are 2 examples, far from miserable.

kurt9 said...

Having a discussion about MGTOW seems rather pointless to me. A real MGTOW would be hanging out on the beaches of Southeast Asia or hiking the rain forests of the Amazon and, consequently, would not even be on the internet often, except perhaps to find information on his next adventure.

BTW, I'm not any kind of MGTOW. I'm a happily married man living in the Pacific Northwest part of the U.S.

j-dub said...

"Having a discussion about MGTOW seems rather pointless to me. A real MGTOW would be hanging out on the beaches of Southeast Asia or hiking the rain forests of the Amazon and, consequently, would not even be on the internet often, except perhaps to find information on his next adventure.

BTW, I'm not any kind of MGTOW. I'm a happily married man living in the Pacific Northwest part of the U.S."

Correct Kurt. I have spent 10 days in the Amazon jungle hunting my own food. I managed to bring my fishing spear all the way home with me. Other than the sands of the Mediteranian or Copacabana there is no better beach to make out or have sex with a woman on then Bali's blue heaven.

Real MGTOW, true MGTOW can't be shamed or coerced. Because we know we are correct. We know that someone trying to convince us to marry is akin to trying to convince us to win the lotto, or die trying.
I make exceptions to the men who met their woman in high school or college and have been with her ever since. I don't pity those men in the least. I just hope they arte truly happy or at least near so.

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