Saturday, May 14, 2016

The end of GenCon

It's just a matter of time now. Men, particularly low-rank men, never understand that by inviting women into their interest groups, they will destroy those groups in time:
That’s right, folks. There are 13 female IIFPs and only 12 men. This means there are MORE WOMEN THAN MEN, and that is a HUGE FUCKING DEAL, because that is a HUGE amount of change in a really short period of time. To prove it, let’s look at the numbers:

    This year’s lineup is 52% female! (13 out of 25)
    Just five years ago, the lineup was a meager 6.25% female (1 out of 16)
    The current number of female IIFPs has more than tripled in only two years. In 2014, there were only 4 out of 25 (16%)!

That said, while gender parity has been achieved, there’s still some progress to be made on other fronts. While there is increased representation of LGBT people, the lineup is still pretty darn white. Even so, the current lineup is a lot less cishet and is less white than in years past, which is encouraging.
Just wait until the lineup is 75% female! Here is my prediction: GenCon attendance is going to decline over the next ten years, white men are increasingly going to stop attending it, and there will be much wailing over what happened without anyone ever mentioning the giant pink elephant in the room.

Look at the university system. College is increasingly irrelevant to white men. I would much rather hire a young man who had the sense to avoid the waste of time that is college and its related debt than one with a degree.

65 comments:

will said...

The golfing industry took this path a few decades ago to freakishly include women. Now, the golf industry has been decimated with total business down 40% from it's peak. And this at a time, when it was expected older baby boomers would flock to golf courses. Not anymore.

Timmy3 said...

Doesn't golf correlate with businessmen? More women in business too. More women everywhere. Male spaces decline. No one can exclude women from participating. Muslims is the exception. They enforce separation rigorously.

Mr.MantraMan said...

The shooting sports are pandering to women, probably have the same results.

1337kestrel said...

Video games have also replaced golf and fishing to an extent, not to mention urbanization and cost increases.

I would much rather hire a young man who had the sense to avoid the waste of time that is college and its related debt than one with a degree.

You can learn the theory and syntax of programming without going to college. You can hone your skills on open source projects, maybe, I wouldn't know. But most STEM fields cannot be learned from scratch online.

Sun Xhu said...

Let GenCon die. Its death started when WoC bought TSR, removing the con from Milwaukee.

It's been slowly dieing ever since. Let the leper die.

Timmy3 said...

But video games are in decline with more women entering these spaces and with SJW programming. What's left? I'm not sure.

Michael Maier said...

WTF? What percentage of tabletop gamers are female?

I was thinking of going to GenCon this year too, just to see what it is like.

Cataline Sergius said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cataline Sergius said...

I would much rather hire a young man who had the sense to avoid the waste of time that is college and its related debt than one with a degree.

A requirement for a college degree used to be a filtering mechanism, you knew what you were getting, at least in terms of a base line.

Now a college degree is...well it is still a filtering mechanism come to think of it.

Although, now you are looking to filter something out.

john smith said...

MGTOW will never capitulate. This is why AVFM is dying also.

Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 said...

This and examples like it are proof that there are no women in heaven. Can you imagine if women were actually allowed there? First woman in heaven: "Oh this is amazing! I love it! It's magnificent! What a masterwork! Now all it needs are a few little changes!!!" inside of 10 years it would become hell - totally unrecognizable from the paradise it once was and it would all be some mans fault somewhere.

Remo - Vile Faceless Minion #99 said...

This and examples like it are proof that there are no women in heaven. Can you imagine if women were actually allowed there? First woman in heaven: "Oh this is amazing! I love it! It's magnificent! What a masterwork! Now all it needs are a few little changes!!!" inside of 10 years it would become hell - totally unrecognizable from the paradise it once was and it would all be some mans fault somewhere.

R Beisert said...

An increasing number of girls in college are getting into the modern Dungeons and Dragons, whose rules are continuing to shift far away from the original wargame-based rule set. Pathfinder and AD&D are still mostly male spaces, because the sheer number of rules and focus on overcoming overwhelming odds is too much for them, but one glance at the new rulebooks was enough to know this was the likely end of D&D.

I guess my trustworthy Ranger will gather dust in that binder for the rest of my life.

dc.sunsets said...

Women now bring the reverse dowry of college debt to their weddings. "Here, honey, pay off my Coms degree, will you dear?"

Equality? What a joke.

Christine Cordero said...

Oh look a bunch of fat sweaty virgins talking about how they hate women coz they can't stand that women are becoming the power and not letting men push us into a corner for safe keeping.
You're all a bunch of bloody fucking idiots and do not deserve to be part of the human race.

Thomas Davidsmeier said...

These people failed basic probability didn't they? There is no reason that even a randomly selected group *should* match the whole population on a percentage basis, especially a small group.

Consider a group of 100 items including 10 "minority" ones. If you were picking a set of 10 items from this collection, people might think that it was most likely for you to pull a group that was 9 "majority" items and 1 "minority." Actually, there are far more possible groups that include only "majority" items than the 9:1 expected ratio. Think about it this way. If you'd pulled 9 "majority" items out first (not the only way this could happen), you still have a 81/91 chance of pulling another "majority" item.

Of course, that's all dialectic at best, which it turns out is useless with morons.

Alfred Genesson said...

@Michael Maier- GenCon's a good time. The mentioned programming isn't that big a draw, honestly. The games are the draw. From my experience there, most women present either play only a few games(some only 1), are into cosplay/anime(tons of those events), or SO of a gamer, and want to see the spectacle. Tons of proper gaming to do.

@Sun Xhu- You're delusional. GenCon broke 62k attendance last year, and is moving a lot of play space to grow the exhibit hall.

@R Beisert- 4th edition is the trainwreck you describe. 5th edition is more Old School. Growth with this edition has been due to revisiting things well, and WOTC pushing the in store adventure leagues. I did an interview with 5th ed. consultant Kasimir Urbanski, AKA RPG Pundit, one of the most hated men in the industry(by SJWs): http://injusticegamer.blogspot.com/2016/05/interview-with-rpgpundit.html

@Christine- How many dead babies do you have?

Sun Xhu said...

Who cares, Alfred? It's all about larping, cosplay and CCG's now. They may as well just change the name to Indianpolis comic-con and be done with it.

RobertT said...

I would much rather hire a young man who had the sense to avoid the waste of time that is college and its related debt than one with a degree.

Unfortunately some professions force you to hire degreed applicants. But it's becoming progressively irrelevant. I am getting the impression the highly intelligent are not getting college degrees. I am always on the lookout for high intelligence people so despite the fact I didn't really need someone right now, I interviewed an applicant yesterday who sported a 3.93 gpa. Great disappointment. Can't even put it into words. Actually depressed me what a 3.93 gpa delivers these days.

RobertT said...

I would much rather hire a young man who had the sense to avoid the waste of time that is college and its related debt than one with a degree.

Unfortunately some professions force you to hire degreed applicants. But it's becoming progressively irrelevant. I am getting the impression the highly intelligent are not getting college degrees. I am always on the lookout for high intelligence people so despite the fact I didn't really need someone right now, I interviewed an applicant yesterday who sported a 3.93 gpa. Great disappointment. Can't even put it into words. Actually depressed me what a 3.93 gpa delivers these days.

Midknight said...

@R Beisert

I dumped Pathfinder recently - too much bloody rules bloat, and not only too many supplements, but the modules aren't written as throughly as they used to be to include non-core rules within the module when needed.

That said, ACKS is a hell of a lot of fun. More rules light, but can be pretty brutal. Interestingly, this results in a play style where the players are damned creative about staying to areas outside of the rules - aka - avoid combat unless they can rig the situation in their favor. Lost a bunch of henchmen, nearly had a TPK and nearly lost several players (two have permanent injuries)

Salden said...

"@Christine- How many dead babies do you have?"

Don't you mean cats?

Alexandros said...

@RobertT
I interviewed an applicant yesterday who sported a 3.93 gpa. Great disappointment. Can't even put it into words. Actually depressed me what a 3.93 gpa delivers these days.

I take college classes at what is essentially a diploma mill masquerading as a "four year" learning institution. It likes to crow about how it is a top 20 school in every STEM field. According to the school and whoever it is who "ranks" these schools, everyone paying the money to go there is getting a top tier education. It also likes to congratulate itself for having a curriculum which focuses on "industry standards" and the like. Basically, they pretend what they teach is relevant to the real world.

Predictably, they not only pass anyone with a pulse, they hand out A+ grades (4.33 gpa) like candy to students who obviously have no idea about the most basic principles of their field.

In regards to Computer Science/Software Engineering, people often wonder why people are graduating these programs yet have no idea how to write a loop, one of the most basic principles of the field—these people are not just graduating though!

As you observed with that 3.93 gpa applicant, so long as they show up one or two times to write their name on a test (which they'll fail), the curve props them up to A+ land. These people graduate with 4.0 (4.33 at this institution!) gpas and then proceed to astonish their peers upon hire (by incompetent hr firms) when they have no idea how to do anything actually relevant to their industry.

I have been informed that this is precisely why local software shops are actually discriminating against anyone who lists a degree received in the past decade on their resume.

Commentators here might say "they're doing that to pass women," but I take Software Engineering classes and I have seen precisely two women buried under a mountain of incompetent men. They should be failing nearly all of us, but instead it's A+ paradise.

Trimegistus said...

If GenCon really is getting feminized (you'll know it when they start dictating what subjects can and cannot be covered in a game being played there), then there's a golden opportunity for someone to start a rival Midwest game convention and poach some of their members.

Mister Jorge said...

Christine's comment is so typical of that kind of feminist. Things like "you don't deserve to be in the human race", it's funny how they try to hold a moral high ground and sneer down.... but then they betray their fascism and make a comment like that. Thanks for fitting the mold Christine.

liberranter said...

Thanks for fitting the mold, Christine.

Her comment, like those of all the other adultolescent feministas, is typical of the three-year-old wannabe tomboy who pulls her elastic toddler pants down, takes a giant dump in public on the sidewalk, and then shouts "look at me! Look what I did, everybody!" as if it was something to be proud of.

Ron said...

@Christine Coldero

If you want my attention, you'll have to do better than that.

1. Pics of yourself, not too revealing please, I don't like the vulgar, but it has to show how much body fat you currently have on you as well as your face. Don't worry if you have bad taste, if you are worth my time, I'll train you to please me.

2. List of useful skills: accounting, nutrition (very, very important), sewing, first aid skills (big plus).

3. Positive habits: walking in nature, gardening, reading of very pedantic subjects or light moralistic aphorisms. these are useful indicators of your state of mind, and do not involve you too much with outside influences, as I will want you to jettison your current circle of associates if I decide to take you on.

4. a medical report from your gynocologist regarding your current fertility. This can come later naturally. No need for you to provide me with that until I've decided your worth taking on.


Good luck.

evilwhitemalempire said...

"But most STEM fields cannot be learned from scratch online."
---------------------------
That doesn't mean liberal arts colleges are the only answer.

Monica Marlowe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Monica Marlowe said...

GenCon continues to post record attendance. The table top community is roughly 50% men and 50% women, regardless of gaming systems. These numbers include percentages for game designer genders as well. Crack the inside cover and take a look at who's doing the developing and additional design work, you're going to find a lot of the names that you see on the IIFP list. Look on the covers, there are female names there too.

Mister Jorge said...

It's so interesting how women are allowed to cheer that they are slowly taking over a given field; while men are supposed to stand in the background and appreciatively nod and clap.
Fine, let women applaud their gains; those earned and those handed to them.
If some guy wants to pander to womanhood and give up his own ground fine to that as well too.
But then there's the female (and limp-wristed male) indignation that a man would want to be surrounded in a field with other men. Imagine the outrage if a man on GenCon said something like "alright fellas, we need to really start gaining back ground and pushing out women and queers."

But that being said, it does seem like the sentiment is shifting and men can start being just as explicit with their concerns as women. Well, they could always be just explicit, but the fallout would be great. And the prospect of that fallout had been enough to keep them in line.

However, once you stop caring about their thoughts and their phony outrage over your lack of acquiescence to their expressed goals you're freed to a large extent.
Because none of those women that you need to pander to are even enjoyable to be around for more than a handful of minutes.
And it's not just men that feel that way... women too. While this type of woman puts on a sisterly face, it's only for that exhausting display of solidarity. In other words: they hate that type of busy-body woman too.

Unknown said...

Let me assure, your MRA tears both delicious and very sustaining. And your idea that Gen Con will see a decline in business over this is hilarious. At the end of Gen Con 2006, there were a recorded 21,000 attendees. In 2010, over 31,000 people attended. And the attendance for last year's attendance was just a continuation of booming attendance: over 61,000 people attended. I don't think that growth is going to stop, and I expect this year's attendance numbers to be just as staggering. Which was why Gen Con has made plans event to expand in to Lucas Oil Stadium this year and for the foreseeable future. Still, if you think it is a dying convention... There's no reason for you to show up. It might also be better to stay at home, so that you don't add to Gen Con's total attendance. You won't be missed.

Mister Jorge said...

"I don't think that growth is going to stop".... thank you for betraying your actual stupidity.

Matt Brumfield said...

@Mister Jorge:

Attendance at a "Dying" Gen Con:
2008 - 28,600
2009 - 27,900
2010 - 30,000
2011 - 36,733
2012 - 41,000
2013 - 49,058
2014 - 56,614
2015 - 61,423

Wow... I'd kinda call that booming attendance. 'Specially seeing as how attendance at Gen Con grew by about ten thousand people between 2014 to 2015. Looking forward to seeing what the attendance numbers are for 2016.

Oh, and link for the numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gen_Con

Mister Jorge said...

Good job missing my point, Brummy.
"I don't think that growth is going to stop". That's a stupid statement and easily shown to be false, let alone impossible.

But now I'd like you to show how that increase is linked to women.

Mister Jorge said...

By the way, what you knuckleheads have missed is that Vox is saying within the next 10 years that attendance will drop.

And for the simple reason that men will lose interest in being there if there's an overabundance of women.

It's like with football (NFL) parties: eventually girls start asking if they can come. To show everyone that they're the super-knowledgeable fan they'll regularly yammer on about little facts that really have no bearing to the game currently at hand. The women that really want to be there watching the game with the guys are beyond annoying. Guys do not want to be around those women. And, if at first they think it's a good idea they quickly come to their senses and start doing other things instead.

Women who want to watch football with the guys can't shut up about the fact that they want to watch football with the guys, how much they know about football even though they're a girl, and constantly feel the need to try to impress others with their wealth of knowledge.

This will be no different. And the sentiment I'm expressing is not MRA, it's simply "go do your own shit". Let men have their own things that they like to do.

You know how annoying it is to have a woman involved with something guys typically do only to talk about how amazing it is that she's interested in that and how great it will be when she gets more of her sistas involved as well too? And that's exactly what that gal's article does.... she talks about how great things will be when diversity is increase. Diversity as a goal on its own.
That shit is annoying.... and those of you who are applauding it are busybodies of the worst degree.

Unknown said...

Do we really have to be at war with women? Women are not an invading nation but rather people that you may get along with. For some of you that seems to be a problem. For that I am sorry.

Mister Jorge said...

I'm happily married to a woman who has her own things and doesn't feel the need to be ever-present in the things I do, nor to I feel the need to be a constant presence with her things.

I'm not at war with women.... I'm just fucking annoyed how a certain type of woman (and salivating, lapdog male) who always feel the need to be there. To monitor things like "the diversity of this current arrangement".
No one wants to hear that shit. Especially when these things are interests, entertainments, things to escape in....
It's no mystery that there is regularly a group of gents that start up their own thing, then a certain stripe of female gets scent of it, makes herself a constant fixture, bemoans how there's a lack of gender (or LGBTQ) representation, and then makes it her goal to change shit up.

That's what I'm sick of.
These kind of women make men and women alike miserable. They should be quarantined off somewhere in Detroit caring for all of the wayward feral cats.

Matt Brumfield said...

@Mister Jorge

If my position is so easily "proven" to be both false and impossible, shouldn't you go ahead and start doing that? Prove your position, and do it with some nice cold, hard facts. I mean, I'm sure you have some to back you up. Right?

Your tears are still quite delicious...

Mister Jorge said...

"tears are quite delicious".... well congrats on outing yourself as a sockpuppet for the Unknown poster that used that exact same phrasing.

I need to show to you how constant growth is impossible??? Constant growth for GenCon attendance?
It's logically impossible, dummy. I don't need to prove it empirically.

Matt Brumfield said...

@Mirster Jorge

Oh, so you can't show me how constant growth at Gen Con is impossible? Then it's more than a little strange that I've been able to show how Gen Con has enjoyed a constant state of growth from 2009 to 2015.

Mister Jorge said...

It's logically impossible, retard.

Way to evade the sockpuppet comment. You use the same terminology as Unknown. You and Unknown both use ellipses when typing and you both are the only ones to call it "Gen Con", opposed to GenCon.
You fucking sneak

Matt Brumfield said...

@Mister Jorge

If it's as "logically impossible" as you say, shouldn't you be able to prove it? Or at least explain the logic behind your statement.

Oh, two things? You can click on the "Unknown" post from earlier and look the attached profile. And Gen Con is the actual name of the convention. The managing company is Gen Con, LLC.

Aeoli Pera said...

OT: The Vikings had sensible laws regarding kino and sexual harassment.

Ron said...

@Unknown

Let me assure, your MRA tears both delicious and very sustaining.

Oh. Ohohohohohohoho. You have made that statement in quite the wrong place

Oh me. Oh my. This is going to be entertaining. Do continue!

Bob Loblaw said...

GenCon might be different than other organizations. Most of these guys are so thirsty they'll put up with pretty much anything to have women around.

Michael Maier said...

@Bob Loblaw, I didn't want to come out and say that. But most D&D and Magic and other tabletop guys are not claiming hot trim.

I imagine the women involved are... mediocre at best.... to put it kindly. But I bet they DO get loads of attention. Hell, I bet the nerds fight over them more readily than most guys.

Mister Jorge said...

I tried to explain to wundergeek (the girl that posted the original article) that while it's great that women want to get involved, they should be extra cautious that any of their moves within this group does not come across as female appropriation of things that men created; but she reacted to my advice by deleting it.

Then I attempted to explain in a manner that even a woman could understand.... no luck, that girl blocked me from posting.

To state over here, it's wunderful that women want to get involved. Just make certain that you are deferential to the men who started it. Make sure that your place is well known.

Mastermind said...

op is wrong, Katherine Cross and Crystal Frasier are men so there are not, in fact, more women than men. I'm also not sure how many people go to gencon to listen to all these nobodies speak. I'd say predicting its doom on this account is a bit premature.

John Williams said...

Wow... I'd kinda call that booming attendance
Looks like Matt Broomfield thinks that if something is increasing, it can never decrease. *facepalm*

BA said...

When an article uses the term "cishet white dude" that's usually when I stop reading.

What I found most interesting was that she didn't seem to mention any improvements to game or convention quality. Just that the diversity percentages were 'better'.

Does that somehow tie into more entertaining games? Does that somehow make attending GenCon more fun? I don't see any connection.

BA

SirHamster said...

Looking at the last 4 years of attendance, and the absolute difference, and the % difference.

41,000
49,058 8,058 20%
56,614 7,556 15%
61,423 4,809 8%

For VD's prediction to hold, we need to see "going to decline" in the next 10 years.

I'd define that as seeing a peak and a general downward slope after that peak. That would generally look like 2 consecutive years of lower attendance, with no recovery in following years.

Which should also be distinguished from a steady-state, which IMO does not qualify as a decline; that would be self-sustaining.

Alfred Genesson said...

The real issue is, what drives attendance at GenCon? For only a very small number is it things like the industry insider panels; there's so much to do that they're irrelevant. Now if this starts infringing on what guests and events are present, that will change attendance. But really, very few gamers even care about what designers/consultants/reviewers are speaking. I personally go to HAVE FUN. Listening to panels would rarely be my idea of fun(Jeffro, RPGPundit, and Pulsipher might help make for an exception).

As to the attractiveness of women at GenCon, the average is pretty high. Yes, there are uglychicks there too, but lots of pretty women.

echochernik said...

Hey guys! I want to thank you so much. Back when I was in High School, I wasn't allowed to play D&D because I was a girl. So, I went on to buckle down, kick ass, and become a highly prominent gaming artist. I wouldn't have been able to do it without the inspiration provided by your particular demographic. I hope that you continue to inspire women everywhere to surpass the ideals placed upon them. Thank you again for setting that bar! echo (www.echo-x.com) (( or google echo shadowrun))

Mister Jorge said...

Echochernik, who didn't let you play D&D? Some guys that probably didn't want you around because you're annoying and a blowhard? Gee, poor thing you are.

Besides, I would wager that your path was paved nicely with financial support and programs geared towards damsels that feign distress.

Thanks, J. said...

Echochernik, smells fishy. I highly doubt any D&D dorks wouldn't allow you to play with them. If they didn't want you playing it's not because you're a female. I'm calling you a lying liar and/or delusional. This all so common victim BS that runs entirely contrary to reason and experience inspires people to resist and trigger SJW's.

echochernik said...

I only say that they wouldn't let me play with them because I was a girl... well, because they said "you can't play. Girls can't play D&D". I can only go by their word. :)

Bob Loblaw said...

Welcome to the internet, where men are men, women are men, and children are FBI agents.

Mastermind said...

"and become a highly prominent gaming artist"

Never heard of you, in no small part because there's no such thing as a highly prominent gaming artist. You're only a legend in your own mind.

VoodooJock said...

And a buttshark to boot.

Mister Jorge said...

Echochernik, you keep overlooking the simple fact that maybe they just didn't want to play it with you.
But you turn in into something male vs female. I can understand alittle bit... it's probably not fun have some people not want you around messing in their affairs. But that's life.

echochernik said...

So, let me get this straight. Some of you nice folks decide to call me names, etc etc, when I've been nothing but polite. At the same time denying that there are such a thing as male gamers that would refuse to let a woman play. Take a moment and think that through - your logic is truly dizzying. However, I do have good news for you! In a few years, you'll discover lots of new things about girls (or guys, whichever way you swing) once puberty hits. :) Best of luck until then! :)

echochernik said...

Oh, and thanks for the laugh. You guys are soooo cute!!! :) squeeze.

BunE22 said...

Echochernik- So when guys told you that you couldn't join them in D&D because you're a girl, did it never occur to you to buy your own D&D and start up a female group of players? Or even a mixed group with guys that didn't have a problem playing with girls? It sounds like you wanted to play with a particular group of guys that didn't want you.

Unknown said...

So I skimmed this conversation and I'm genuinely curious. I guess I'm a low ranked man. But I don't understand why this is an inherently bad thing? It doesn't seem like any of you are upset about the specific choice of any particular presenter. It seems like you're upset about them generally in that they are now majority women (by a whole .2% or 1 extra person - the horror).

So what is it about this specific event, that there is one more woman than man on a list of people I never cared about anyway, that is ultimately going to ruin my favorite con?

Post a Comment

NO ANONYMOUS COMMENTS.