The definition of a “strong woman” varies from person to person but in 2015 a strong woman is basically a female who runs off at the mouth, posts memes about how strong she is as a woman, and has a jaded disposition—a direct result of being fucked and chucked on the regular.When people say that men "can't handle" strong women, they're half-missing the point. It's not that men can't do it, it's that they don't want to do it. When I hear "strong" or "intelligent" woman, my first thought is "ah, she's a constant pain in the ass to everyone around her".
Women are mentally fragile. If someone hurts her feelings, she either cries or has a breakdown on the spot. And of course they’re the smaller, weaker sex. Any “strength” they have is because of their ability to quickly recruit white knights to defend them.
Even if women had the strength they pretend to have, it’s not what men are looking for. Girls don’t want weak men so what makes them think we want “strong” women?
As men, we have all the physical strength and cerebral brawn we need (more on this in a bit). We want women who add to our lives and bring something to the table we don’t currently have. We don’t want or need a surplus of a fraudulent commodity women claim to have that turns out to be more of a headache than an asset—especially when they’re trying to prove it to you, themselves, and everyone around them all the time.
Because, rightly or wrongly, they feel inferior, that sort of woman is constantly trying to prove she is "strong enough" or "smart enough". And try-hard women aren't any more attractive or pleasant to be around than try-hard men. My reaction to a try-hard woman trying to prove herself is usually to ask "for what?" Strong enough for what? Smart enough for what?
I mean, statistically speaking, she's never going to be smarter than me. Once you mature and max it out, strength and intelligence aren't going to change except for the worse. And if a woman doesn't worry about being tall enough, why would she worry about being smart enough or strong enough?
Be the best you can be. That's the most you can hope for and it's more than you'll likely manage. The main thing is to stop annoying everyone you meet by trying to compare yourself to them.
59 comments:
Oh this is soooo true. I can't count the number of times I've wanted to say that. This article also explains why I'm looking to Colombia
Gammas are the male equivalent. They are constantly trying to prove they are good enough -- the very fact that they must do this means that they are NOT good enough. Women don't want to date try-hard Gammas, so why should men want to date try-hard women?
Well said. Strength and independence are the last things men look for in women. Who exactly is telling women to develop and advertise these qualities?
The "strong, independent" woman is also a favorite of Betas and Gammas. Video games and movies (e.g., "Tomb Raider") are full of such characters. Same thing with women's sports. It can't only be girls who are watching these things. Strong chicks appeal to nerds. Like the cuckold, these men reject the masculine and adopt the passive role of the spectator.
Note: Donovan, next time you're in OC, holla at a playa, brah.
Correct and absolutely spot on, but let add as a worker in large Federal department: these "strong women" are in charge. In a very real way. They wield real, actual power.
The incredible incompetence of the U.S. Government?
The amazing list of foreign policy disasters now and over the past ten years?
The inability of our military to win wars?
The complete failure to safeguard basic information, as we saw recently at OPM?
Yeah, there is a reason for it and it's simple: Men aren't in charge of the U.S. Govt. anymore.
So, yes, this is accurate and it's a joke. But the more interesting question to me is this:
What are we men going to do about it, aside from making good points on the Internet?
Male traits in a female are as off-putting as female traits in a male.
Strong Women and Nice Guys, two examples of people not realizing the traits they want in the opposite sex are not the traits the opposite sex wants in them.
Even if women had the strength they pretend to have, it’s not what men are looking for. Girls don’t want weak men so what makes them think we want “strong” women?
How tragic that we have to editorialize common sense. But alas, it has indded come to that.
For the benefit of any women here who still don't "get it:"
NO heterosexual, self-respecting man wants a relationship with a fifth-rate man wannabe. There are already enough of those born with a penis and testicles and we're certainly not interested in them either.
I often wonder if SIWs, seething with penis envy, if not outright hatred of men, imagine themselves, whenever they have sex with (weak[er]) men, to have conned said men into having a quasi-homosexual relationship, and thus get a vicarious thrill from the humiliation they (think they) have conferred upon them.
Women also have a remarkable ability to confuse self control with weakness (and a lack of it with strength).
Women who identify themselves as strong women are providing pre-emptive excuses for being total bitches
A strong woman means....
She is independent. What man wants a woman that doesn't need him.
She stands up to men. Because she lets them in the past.
She is disagreeable to men. Men don't need such ugliness at home.
She was mistreated. She is likely a basketcase.
She is on the defensive. Everyone can hurt her and without much effort.
The popularity of Ronda Rousey among men shows how many men today are not normal. It's one thing to admire a woman for being an attractive blonde. It's another to admire her because she can supposedly beat men up.
@Marissa
I suspect a lot of men with that kind of weird fetish about being dominated by a woman were never spanked by their parents growing up.
It may also explain why there are so many Gammas around. I was a low-value male until recently, but thank God my parents disciplined me harshly about lying and being dishonest.
When a man says he desires strength in a woman, he means:
Moral strength - so that she'll be faithful to him and a good teacher for his children.
Emotional strength - so she won't be a basket-case every time life throws them a curveball.
Fortitude - so she'll resist trends, and so she will stick to her diet or do what it takes to keep herself fit.
That kind of stuff. Basically, when things happen in life that make it feel like they're in a foxhole together, he wants to know that she'll be next to him helping him reload, not shrieking and running out into the line of fire or leading the enemy through the back tunnel.
When a woman says men are intimidated by her "strength," she means she's bossy and demanding.
I think I might have said this here before (forgive my pregnancy brain), but I've yet to see a man praise women for their physical strength in anything outside of childbirth. You see real awe on their faces when they speak about witnessing it, not just simple lip service (like that paid to Rousey, as referenced above).
And it's the one physical strength women excel at that they're turning their backs on.
[I]t's the one physical strength women excel at that they're turning their backs on.
Tragically, this. It's as if the delusion has taken hold, among both men and women, that PC sociological conditioning can alter or reverse millennia of biological hardwiring and the structural design of the sexes. If that doesn't characterize mass insanity, then nothing does.
BTW, congrats on the new little one! When are you due?
@Cail Corishev, good point. Yes, that is the sort of strength men want.
If she is strong in kegels that is good.
There is no such thing as a strong woman but a woman putting up a shield about how tuff she is or she needs attention.
Meanwhile the weaklings like me have to play objective and smile when mommys gal pals talk nonsense, they are so strong!. Tired, weak, old, manless broads. They make me laugh!
Strong women usualy have cobwebs between their legs because they dontneedaman! Feminism is such sicko mind control.
@liberranter
Thank you! Any day now actually...
When a woman says she's a strong intelligent woman, more often than not, she's trying to explain away why she's not getting the male attention she thinks she deserves. The man with options caring more about what she looks like in a bikini than her knowledge of ancient greece. The inequities of life!
I think it gets more frustrating when lower status men effectively pretend they care about her knowledge of ancient greece because they don't have the options in the first place, hence fake nice guy puts the hours in faking interest in these things when if he was being honest he'd just say her arse is too big for those jeans, or "any chance of a blowy"?
@Laguna Beach Fogey
I've never found confident kick ass women attractive, I think people mostly lie about what they find attractive based on the level they are at. Remember married guy saying to me once, "I think my Mrs is the most beautiful woman in the world". You know she's objectively low in attraction and probably overweight immediately. The comedian Frank Skinner did a short routine about how their is a fallacy about ugly people being attracted to other ugly people.
Also would add Return of Kings has a lot of losers, or at least writers trying to appeal to losers, women are nowhere near as bad as is made out on there. Where the problem is they are increasingly NOT MARRIAGE MATERIAL, but thats not them its general trends, how may men are that marriageable? They whinge on there both that women are too much like sluts, and they aren't marriage material, while banging on about how many virgins they are ploughing through! If you want to enjoy yourself and you make an effort its never been better. I'm in the "needs to be propped up by a good woman camp", isn't going to happen unless she is significantly "off". I could get one of those, learn to love the delta in you Willers!!
Had some Gamma pussy mention Ronda Rousey the other day, saying she could probably beat me up. I'm not sure why that was important to him, but it makes me wonder if a lot of this strong independent women crap is just a revenge fantasy of sorts.
I wonder how much men's liking for tough chicks comes down to not knowing any better, because we see attractive women portrayed a certain way so much.
Is Charlize Theron attractive in Aeon Flux, in a catsuit and with short hair, doing acrobatics and killing people? Absolutely. She's so gorgeous they have to work hard just to make her plain. But find a picture of her with long hair and wearing a dress, trying to look hot instead of tough, and she's breathtaking. There's no comparison. But we don't see actresses that way very much, mostly just at awards ceremonies which men don't watch. Most of the time we see them portraying tough broads, wearing men's clothes or fantasy costumes -- anything but a traditional feminine look.
A while back I was spending the day with a girl. She started out in t-shirt and jeans with her hair up, because we were doing outdoor stuff. Then before dinner, she changed into a dress and did something complicated with her hair down. I was stunned. I thought she'd looked good before -- she had a good body for tight clothes -- but actually looking feminine took it up a few notches. Men just don't see that very much, though, so we get used to the best-looking women sporting a butch look and attitude.
I saw Ronda Rousey in a promo the other day. Too buff for my taste, but I guessed that she could look very good if she wanted to. I just looked up some pictures, and I was right. It's very smart of her to keep her long hair; that more than anything else softens her look and lets her look feminine when she's not scowling and flexing.
@Fail
Part of it is a shift from courting for marriage ti courting for sex. "Strong" women may be a pain, but their typical higher testosterone makes then easier to bed.
I think Cail has a handle on it. Part of it is the effort to stamp out femininity in the public eye. You just do not see very much of it and I think a lot of young dudes who do not know any better do not really understand the attraction of it. So they just assume the quiet girl is plain and boring and they want the boisterous, different, adventurous action girl. Hey, she's a challenge, so she must be worth it, right?
Of course we're awfully close to gainsaying Taming of the Shrew... There is something I am missing I think.
Anywho, I suspect another part of it is that the tough women take the "masculine" role. Like it or not, the old caveman drag you back to the lair and ravage you fantasy is always going to be hot, but among the modern passive young man for whom all alpha behavior is alien, the woman MUST take up the alpha role (For this post, assume alpha simply means the caveman who is dragging the other member of the relationship back to the cave to throw on the bed.). So, a woman who can beat a dude up becomes dangerous, in a sexy sense, and also leads the relationship, which is huge, in a fantasy sense, for guys who are not quite comfortable around women. For people who do not have much classical manhood in their lives, imagining a girl bringing some of that alpha energy to a relationship must be a huge relief. Hell, it is probably part of their worldview that such women MUST exist, which might explain part of the rush to claim "she can beat you up."
Of course this is all from my experience and self-assessment of my youthful problems is probably an infinite navel deep dive from which correct, concrete answers seldom escape.
Personally I think Rousey is attractive physically. The fact that she used to moderate a Pokemon board in her youth gives her an absolutely adorable "nerd girl turned jock girl" mystique that pops about a half second after she opens her mouth and talks like a normal classless jock.
Yeah, what Trust said is a big part of it too, though men don't think of it in those terms: "I'm gonna go find me a mannish one tonight!" But men still (despite all the evidence) tend to think that "normal" for women is to be good and reasonably non-slutty. So the more unconventional a woman is, the more she might also go beyond the norm sexually. If she breaks a taboo like "girls don't like to fight," then maybe she'll screw on the first date. And there's probably some truth to that.
But it's probably the T thing underlying it too, because not all unconventional behavior works that way. Men don't assume that the girl who plays chess and writes software will put out easy, for instance. So it's not enough for her to engage in typically male behavior; it has to be certain kinds of male behavior involving violence or risk that make her "hot." (Although now that I think of it, we do tend to find "geek girls" more attractive than normal. Hmm....)
but among the modern passive young man for whom all alpha behavior is alien, the woman MUST take up the alpha role
Yep. Not only is he too passive to take charge, but he figures if she drags him back to the cave, then she's taken responsibility and he doesn't have to fear being accused of anything. Which isn't true, but it would seem logical to the man looking for ways to dodge rejection and other dangers. He's been told his whole life that the girl gets to decide how fast everything goes and when you stop, so it makes sense to him that she should drive.
Rhonda... Methinks her dad wanted a son? Or possibly something showed up in the ultra sound?
Either way, had no idea who she was until Expendables 3 where they had this totally not hot bitchy gal beating up guys. She was so irritating, my whole family begged me to turn it off.
Obligatory Fred on Everything link. It's worth reading the whole thing.
"When people say that men "can't handle" strong women, they're half-missing the point."
----------------------
Oh, we can handle them just fine.
It's just that we go to jail for doing so.
True, men don't seek out mannish, but they do tend to lower the bar for willing.
Rousey is in a different league all together. She's the rare hot physical chick who you can go kick ass with at some co ed softball. Drink down a few beers afterwards with the group. And head home for a nite of great sex with a smoking hot chick who has the physical endurance to go the distance.
I call Rousey the Sarah Connor Effect. Plenty of 1980's Alpha males were hot for Sarah Connor. Linda Hamilton at the time pulled that off. It should be noted that Sarah Connor also had a certain vulnerability that Rousey also shows in herself today.
99.999% of women who yammer on about "strong women" do not actually mean physical strength like Rousey. They don't mean strong thighs, biceps and glutes. They mean strong opinions.
A strong back on a woman is way, way more attractive than strongly held opinions.
@ Jack Amok:
A minor quibble, I think it isn't just having strong opinions. I think it's talking shit that would get a guy punched in the face.
And they're proud of being so unpleasant, and then count their female privilege of talking shit without consequences as strength.
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The woman you describe is neither smart, nor strong. A person of any sex will come across as try-hard, if they act that way. What do you think - how do men feel about REAL strong and smart women?
By strength I mean things like ability to tolerate stress, enduring life's tests, not being easily wounded, perhaps physical strength being above average for a woman, And by smarts, I mean IQ, wisdom, creativity, perhaps intellectual curiosity.
Donovan is correct, partially, but with obesity rates topping 50% American women aren't even good for that. Everything else he says is spot on.
@ Nataliya Kochergova said... What do you think - how do men feel about REAL strong and smart women?
____
That depends. If a hot woman is strong and smart, we think she's hot. If an ugly woman is strong and smart, we think she's ugly.
Strength as you defined it isn't of particular interest to men. They find traits like loyalty and character a plus, and they help a man decide to marry, but they aren't an attractant.
By strength I mean things like ability to tolerate stress, enduring life's tests, not being easily wounded, perhaps physical strength being above average for a woman, And by smarts, I mean IQ, wisdom, creativity, perhaps intellectual curiosity.
Depends. Can you tell me about her tits? Does her butt sort of "cup" or continue down the outer thigh when wearing jeans?
Finally, can I bounce a quarter off her tummy?
This will help me get a better idea of how attractive she is while you give me her CV.
@ Cail - liking girls who look physically hard from heavy weight lifting, heavy workouts and sports, and possibly abusing T and HGH might also be a response to the obesity epidemic. I used to be a physical trainer in my 20's and I grew up with a few obese family members. I always figured my fear of getting fat (and getting stuck with a woman who let herself go like my mom did) and working with benefits with my fit female coworkers is why I like a bit more muscle definition in women than most of my friends. But then a read an article about "fit is the new skinny" and I started scrutinizing my reaction to women more (I work in a college town that is also a beach/surf town...plenty of eye candy). Skinny is okay but skinny fat is not attractive when compared to skinny fit/mild muscularity with feline looks. I think it's both part biology and our obese environment that makes men embrace some of this muscularization of women. I mean, if a girl hits the weights, the chance of her turning into a land whale in the future is much less.
I now am unashamed to tell my dates my opinions on this, and I even lightly admonish them when they have skipped the gym or eat crap. If they think staying in shape isn't important, it's an instant next.
Had some Gamma pussy mention Ronda Rousey the other day, saying she could probably beat me up. I'm not sure why that was important to him, but it makes me wonder if a lot of this strong independent women crap is just a revenge fantasy of sorts.
Do you mean the weaker man likes the idea of a "strong woman" dominating a stronger man? Almost like she's taking out his competition? Like at the end of the first Back to the Future, Lorraine beats up Biff so George can have her all to himself? I can see that being true, especially when you look at who writes all these "strong" females--loser gammas still stuck in high school, for the most part. I can also see this same dynamic in those men who want to see Ronda Rousey beat down ripped, attractive men.
"What do you think - how do men feel about REAL strong and smart women?"
If you have to ask, it is the wrong question. A woman that defines herself as strong or smart has failed to find the right mate for such men that like this type of women is a small pool. Her self esteem is likely above average and these women are not attractive to men.
"REAL strong and smart women" won't find weak men attractive either. Most men are not the strong and smart types. They are average. So these women are disqualifying themselves from the dating market unless they get smart and take a step back.
So... real strength and smarts in a woman are neutral, but can be negative if it makes her super picky.
"real strength and smarts in a woman are neutral" NO. It's already a negative. That she is picky makes it worse.
Most people, men and women alike, who regard themselves as strong aren't really that tough. They confuse an inability to cope silently with not getting their way with strength. These people confuse being a pain in the ass with being tough.
My gf's best friend is one of these. Literally to a letter. posting the memes, talking about how she doesn't need no man, getting pumped and dumped by numerous guys before dating schlubs. She has a kid from a guy she dated in HS (who was a total headcase and isn't in the picture anymore) and has gone through just a slew of guys. In the time i've been dating my gf (3-4 years) she has been through literally 5 different bf's who she said she loved (2 of which she said was her soul mate) before breaking up with them an then proceeding to talk massive shit about. In between all these guys she was hooking up with dudes on the low who really had no interest in her at all otherwise. Now she got knocked up by this military guy she was dating who is a huge chump and is engaged to.
And my gf no longer wonders why I don't like hanging out with this chick, since she's constantly trying to bust balls and exert dominance, not realizing that NO guy who isn't totally broken wants a girl who does that. She even unironically referred to herself as an "alpha female". Literally everything about her is broken. And she's at BEST a 3 or 4. So I don't see things ending well for her. When my gf told me how things went down with her parents divorce I was COMPLETELY unsurprised.
@Nataliya: "So... real strength and smarts in a woman are neutral, but can be negative if it makes her super picky."
Depends. Intelligence can be good, if it is used in feminine ways. A woman who is thoughtful, pleasant, good with children and good at reading people can be very attractive. My wife's grandmother was this way. A truly thoughtful person with the memory of an elephant.
It's the ways in which the intelligence is applied. Most women in the West, today, use intelligence to try and prove they are smarter than men. This is NOT attractive. Strength is, at best, neutral, but more often a negative. Women don't need it, and men feel good providing strength to women. It gives them value. Women have intrinsic value because they are the limiting factor in reproduction. Men must PROVE themselves valuable, and that is difficult to do with a woman constantly trying to prove them weaker.
I was having similar thoughts to Durandel. A physically "strong" woman (a martial artist like Rousey or an Olympian) is pretty much guaranteed not to be obese.
Being "strong" in the senses Cail listed will enhance a woman's MMV.
Just to be clear: I was careful to say that moral and emotional strength in a woman are desirable. I didn't say they're attractive.
Women have real strengths and smarts of their own. They dont need to compete with men or mens strengths to be considered strong or smart.
"The "strong, independent" woman is also a favorite of Betas and Gammas. Video games and movies (e.g., "Tomb Raider") are full of such characters. Same thing with women's sports. It can't only be girls who are watching these things. Strong chicks appeal to nerds. Like the cuckold, these men reject the masculine and adopt the passive role of the spectator."
Yep. Seen it over and over, including my own family. During holidays, I used to just stare at them with my mouth open, and shake my head. The rats know where the easy cheese bees. They'd go to the women's college basketball games not from personal athletic interest, but to display their PC Credentials as Knights of Strong Empowered Women. Their girfriends almost invariably were ugly, fat, and not fit to bring anywhere except dennys or walmart.
And these are the males who run institutional America, as they have been vetted-for over the past half-century. Look at the Pres, V.P., and supposed leaders of America. Where is a m-a-n? ANY man? The inferior males want fake 'strong women' to rule the nations, because such men lack the groceries to be masculine themselves, and the only way they can shine is by utilizing Team Fem to disenfranchise authentic men, and elevate themselves.
There are no political solutions to these spiritual diseases and ongoing power alliances. This is psycho-sexual gameplaying at the Old Savannah level, and it must be crushed mercilessly if you ever expect healthy human populations, nations, and intact families.
Physical strength in women is usually paired up with being overweight. The norm for Western women is to be overweight.
The physically strong woman who is thin is an aberration. Of course she's attractive, because she's thin. If she weren't muscular, but were still thin, she'd be even more attractive.
Independence in a woman is attractive for a man who wants a one-night stand, but is not attractive for marriage prospects. This is just classic r vs K selection.
I will leave it as an exercise to the reader to look for cultures that produce "strong", "independent" women, and then assess if they are r or K selected, especially in terms of future-time-orientation. The reader may then assess if men in those cultures primarily mate with women in one night stands, or in marriage.
For all the talk about how important being attractive is to women, and how "strong" and "intelligent" they are, you'd think they'd be applying some of this mental fortitude and raw IQ into figuring out how to be more attractive.
I figured out how to lose 70 lbs so I wouldn't be toting around a beer gut in middle age; it wasn't THAT hard.
I dunno, I kinda like strong women. That kung-fu grip comes in handy.
A minor quibble, I think it isn't just having strong opinions. I think it's talking shit that would get a guy punched in the face.
And they're proud of being so unpleasant, and then count their female privilege of talking shit without consequences as strength.
That wasn't a quibble, that was complete agreement.
A (now former) female friend once attacked me in a bar. She shoved me, took a couple swings, which were easily blocked, and screached about kicking my ass. Men began approaching, and i knew full well that I may end up fighting 5+ white knights. My wife, then my girlfriend, stepped between us and ended it.
Of course, she looked tough, me weak. She smack talked about me needing a woman to protect me. Fact remains however, that if she were a man, ir if I lacked self control (with no white knight deployment) , she'd have lost in quick and spectacular fashion. She was deluding herself.
Women regard themselves as strong, without considering their strength has zero to do with their ability to attack a man twice their size with no consequence.
My ex broke up with me after 2 years saying that we would never work because I was the type of woman who was looking for a guy to take care of her an he was looking for someone to team up with. All I said was that I I like guys who protect an provide because I feel safe with them. I have a professional degree, a great job and my own opinions about things. I don't consider myself a type of woman who needs to be "taken care of" but nevertheless I think that a man should provide and protect. Am I wrong or was I just dating a Beta male?
Um, I'm sorry but statistically I am smarter than all of you. My boyfriend might be physically weak but at least he's mentally strong and emotionally mature enough to cope with a woman who wants to be something more than just a boring, unintelligent, passive fuck machine.
I think you have dominance confused with strength. Dominant people are not strong-thus they need to prove again and again that they are relevant. Strong people just get on with it. They have to. Many women were promised the perfect man who was to rescue them. For most it never happened so they had to get on with it.
This article and this forum is a depressing view of the "alpha" males...
I am none of what is in the article. I consider myself strong but I am humble and passive and quiet in personality
A true strong person... male or female... does not have to announce it. That confidence exudes through their stature and presence. Its in their way of walking and manner they hold themselves.
A woman can be soft and gentle but intelligent and strong and Not be the obnoxious moronic idiots seen on Facebook these days.
What is depressing about what I just read is how horribly men still look down on women. I truly hope something opens your eyes... and hope some of you guys with the "women are sluts" type comments never have daughters and if you do, shame... I hope you never have to comfort a crying daughter who was treated that way.
Anyway, peace out.
Are these guy even "Alphas"? Do these guys even know what they're talking about? This post is rubbish,these so called "alpha" males are the kind of men that think it's okay to live a double standard, full of deception and lies. They live on this high horse believing people don't see them for who they really are(dudes who are full of poop). Yes, I agree women who've been constantly disappointed by men behaviors do learn to rely on herself and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. At least she knows the man that's around wants to be with her, and actually loves her. This topic is a revealing topic, not just about what men think about the strong women but also about the weak men who believe this. Men make strong(or should I say self-reliant)women and strong( self-reliant)women try to make attentive men so it goes full circle.
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