Saturday, June 6, 2015

80 percent liars

Some have criticized me for telling men not to take what women say overly seriously. Obviously, that criticism was misplaced.
It was reported this week that women fib more than men. Four out of five females said they lied every day compared to two out of five men, and some women said they lied up to 30 times a day.
If 80 percent of women lie every day, then you'd have to be an idiot to have "she said it so I believe it" as your default position. This, of course, is why women are so much better at seeing through other women than men are. Being liars themselves, they know when other women are lying.

Even those who aren't habitual liars are surrounded by them and are aware, as few men are, that dishonesty is the default position. The important thing to remember is that it's not really whether she lies or not that is the issue, but rather, how she lies. The way in which a woman lies can, in many cases, be more informative than the simple truth.

This also means it is foolish to get upset with a woman about lying. Try to think of it as "defensive communication" rather than shameless dishonesty. At an instinctual level, women are afraid of men, and when they are worried that they will make a man angry, their instinct is to lie in order to avoid trouble.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, although obviously it can be tremendously abused. Only a fool or a madman wants to know the complete truth about another individual, of either sex, anyhow.

35 comments:

Earl Thomas said...

Testosterone is Truth Serum:

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/10/study-testosterone-is-truth-serum/263515/

Mr.MantraMan said...

True that. Thursday listening to Limbaugh go on about the Rangerette situation a mother of one of the 190 something women who tried and failed to make it anywhere on the Ranger course called in, and her call exemplified Female Solipsism. But old Rush another emascucon white knight Old Pa type just listened as the hamster wheel squeaked out its excuses.

Iowahine said...

VD: "The important thing to remember is that it's not really whether she lies or not that is the issue, but rather, how she lies. The way in which a woman lies can, in many cases, be more informative than the simple truth."

More to come . . . (?)

Dexter said...

Those of us who remember Anita Hill remember the mantra, "Women don't lie about harassment!"

Today we're hearing, "Women don't lie about rape!"

Some of them will hedge a little - "women rarely lie about rape or harassment." But that claim is still a lie.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Yes, but they're such pretty little liars.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Testosterone is Truth Serum

Yes. Masculine virtues. I've always thought that the honesty, openness, and truth-telling characteristic of Germanic and Nordic societies [but especially the Germans] could be attributed to higher levels of T and masculinity in general.

hank.jim said...

Women associate truth telling with hurting ones feelings so they don't tell anyone the truth and they hurt their own mental health for a lie is hard to keep. Truth becomes the lie. One thing I learned from my ex-wife is she expected me to know that she lied. Either she is this cruel or she never meant the lie is pernament. I never spoke to her again after the divorce was final. I was done.

Aeoli Pera said...

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/10/study-testosterone-is-truth-serum/263515/

My gut tells me that 46 men is not a large enough sample size for this particular study. Still, it is an interesting idea in light of the "overmasculinized brain" theory of Asperger's.

Aeoli Pera said...

Being liars themselves, they know when other women are lying.

And because the ladies who don't lie are resisting a biological instinct to do so, even the honest ladies will see through a liar more easily.

Earl Thomas said...

The sample size may be small...but when I think about it guys who are perpetual liars aren't exactly the beacons of masculinity.

Who needs pills when you can increase your T levels by telling the truth.

Conscientia Republicae said...

LBF isn't there a show called Pretty Little Liars? Yes there is and it's about --a bunch of carousel riding women--!

Earl Thomas said...

'Still, it is an interesting idea in light of the "overmasculinized brain" theory of Asperger's.'

Never heard that theory...is that the idea the Aspie brain perceives truth better?

Sean Carnegie said...

@Earl

I've never heard of the theory either but I think you've likely got it backwards. Aspies are socially aloof: they take things at face value and also give same. Aspies completely lack filters... when you can get them to speak to you.

Michael Maier said...

Life becomes so much easier when you assume women cannot be held to a truthful standard. Their brains are amazing in their retardedosity.

2870b918-77c0-11e3-b9bd-000bcdcb8a73 said...

Four out of five females said they lied every day compared to two out of five men

We need to be careful about what conclusions we draw from this. First of all, it could be that women are more likely than men to admit they lied. Second, women talk more than men do, so women will make more false statements than men during a given time period even if both sexes lie at the same rate.

I'm not saying that Vox's conclusion is false, just that we need more data to evaluate it.

Noah B #120 said...

But she's always a woman to me.

Dexter said...

Being liars themselves, they know when other women are lying.

But they can't, can't, can't call them on it because feelbad.

Should a man call her on it, the other women will circle the wagons around her. Go Team Woman!

Michael Maier said...

Circle the wagons... and immediately get stabbed in the back by their "sister"... Object? It's like the scorpion: "It's my nature!"

Go Team Woman!

Blake Law said...

But Sarah denied it, saying, “I did not laugh,” for she was afraid. He said, “No, but you did laugh.” Genesis 18:15

LP 999/Eliza said...

Exactly not only never listen to what women say but its caring communication or defensive communication not meant to hurt or entirely deceive just avoiding matters that are not key to a relationship, marriage, money, children or dinner or whatever.

I avoid repeat utterly avoid stressing any men out, I just smile and say, "if I tell you the whole story, you'll just get upset, stressed or angry so can I stop talking now?"

However women must be held to honest standard to tell the truth when asked anything even if its a painful truth, truth is always the best policy.

LP 999/Eliza said...

Answering a question with a question isn't the best either but I pose it before I give bad news or start a fight.

For me finances are always out in the open since ITS HIS MONEY AND a couples future together. Its not zen in de end to be a Keynesian n spend.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

"if I tell you the whole story, you'll just get upset, stressed or angry so can I stop talking now?"

Good.Of course, you'll continue talking, only about more trivial matters, which some of us find amusing, endearing.

b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 said...

Women lie to avoid conflict... so they say yes, because they don't want an upset male... and this is how you get regret rape, and why the affirmative consent laws will have to give way to fornication laws in order to put an end to regret rape.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

You should see the look on their face when you force them to tell the truth.

"Admit it, that baby is ugly"

Charles M. Schulz said...

www.longingfordeath.wordpress.com

slp corner said...

"Only a fool or a madman wants to know the complete truth about another individual, of either sex, anyhow."

This took me by surprise, and I'm hoping there will be more on this later. If this is true then I am a either a fool or a madman... or perhaps both. Well, I actually already knew that, but had no idea that wanting the complete truth contributed to my madness.

slp corner said...

Upon further reflection, I suppose it's because knowing the complete truth about any individual is impossible - and seeking that end is foolish and leads to madness. Unless you were actually there to witness what the individual said or did - you can only go on what they tell you, or what others tell you, and people lie, stretch the truth, etc.

Cail Corishev said...

I suppose it's because knowing the complete truth about any individual is impossible

I think it means what it says: no reasonable person would want to know everything about another person, even if it were as easy as doing a quick mind-meld. That way lies insanity.

Turn it around: would you want anyone else to know everything about you? Every urge, every failure, every unworthy thought, even those that never made it out of your head? If that doesn't sound like a nightmare to you, then you're either a fool or a madman. Or perhaps a saint, but even the saints knew themselves better than that.

(The concept is ringing a bell like it's the premise of a story I've read or seen, but I can't place it. And no, I'm not thinking of the Total Perspective Vortex, though that makes a similar point.)

slp corner said...

Corishev - I see your point - but I suppose my desire for the truth is more selective. There are certain things about certain individuals that I do desire to know the unaltered truth about. The list would actually be quite long, and I wonder if finding the truth about one thing would spark interest in another, then another... and that would also lead to madness. Or maybe it already has...

Cail Corishev said...

There are certain things about certain individuals that I do desire to know the unaltered truth about.

That sounds like a very bad habit, and strikes me as extremely arrogant for some reason. Maybe because it implies that you have any business knowing more about people than they'd like to reveal, or that you'd be capable of judging it.

LP 999/Eliza said...

It is not so much about judgement between the sexes, couples and marriages. Altering trust at the altar means at times stressful truths must be stated just as plain as possible b/c the two have become one. Therefore, truth up let judgement and fears go, if you love respect him and he leads, he'll listen.

OT: Keep the hair long, be beautiful!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/01/us-money-hair-budgets-idUSKBN0OH2MP20150601

slp corner said...

Cail Corishev said..."...strikes me as extremely arrogant for some reason. Maybe because it implies that you have any business knowing more about people than they'd like to reveal, or that you'd be capable of judging it."

There are situations where one would have earned or been given the responsibility, duty, or "business" to know as well as judge. But the original statement was about knowing everything, and I've conceded that point. Other than those specific instances where it is our duty to discern the truth - the rest is just curiosity... which of course killed the cat.

Crowhill said...

Studies based on self-reported statistics don't seem very reliable to me.

Miss Conduct said...

"At an instinctual level, women are afraid of men, and when they are worried that they will make a man angry, their instinct is to lie in order to avoid trouble."

Seems like every time I have pointed this out to men--that women are afraid of them even if they won't admit it--I am accused of man-bashing. Perhaps it is just me, but I think there's good reason to be afraid of men and cautious in general around men I don't know and trust. I don't tolerate generalized man-bashing by women in my presence otherwise but this seems like an obvious truth.

I'm sure the daily lies the women self-reported are mostly of the polite white variety. I've told plenty of them myself. In my uppity opinion a secondary reason people tell white lies is that they want to be liked and they don't want to be shunned and cast outside the group. This is understandable to me but it's a clear act of self-interest, not mercy or virtue.

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