Saturday, May 23, 2015

Schism with the Red Pill



It's an interesting history of the development of the theory of Game. "You are attacking someone who has shaped your world view." Great stuff. One thing I very much like about Roosh is his willingness to directly address his critics without resorting to dramatics.

I would bet on Roosh against the Red Pill sub-reddit as well. And frankly, I never thought much of the Matrix terminology anyhow. Neomasculinity is a much more sensible term anyhow, and as far as the distinction between it and the Red Pill Manosphere goes, I think an increased emphasis on tradition, patriarchy, and the nuclear family that is anti-socialist with more room for spirituality sounds considerably more like a philosophy I can support.

61 comments:

Aeoli Pera said...

There's a lot going on in this video. Just to be clear, Roosh is approaching super-Alpha territory, right?

David-093 said...

@Aeoli

Pretty much. Its ironic too as the closer he gets to super alpha stardom the more interested in Christianity he becomes. I wouldnt be surprised if he converts in the five years.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Well said, Vox. I'll stand with Roosh. As I've said before, the Manosphere is chock full of bitter beta boys, virgin spergs and autistics, and sexless MGTOWs. Good for Roosh for standing up to these pricks. He's clearly destined for greater things.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Those ungrateful little curs should thank God every day that men like Roosh, Roissy, Rollo, and Vox share their insights and experiences with the world.

Bob Wallace said...

No, he did not come up with Alpha/Beta applied to men (I've heard the clown Ted Nugent refer to himself as an "alpha" 15 years ago). As for the "Manosphere," a mishmash of terms from a science-fiction movie, the Greek alphabet, evo-psych (which isn't a science) and made-up words sounds more like a cult.

Cail Corishev said...

Yes, Bob, you think the manosphere is stupid and wrong. We know. You've told us at least a hundred times already. Do you have anything else to say?

I could give you a whole list of things I think are stupid and wrong: eating lots of grain, living in crowded urban areas, getting tattoos.... Guess how often I go to blogs where people discuss their interest in those things and tell them they're stupid and wrong?

Beefy Levinson said...

This is good. As the years have gone by, I've been gratified to see manosphere writers delve more deeply into tradition and the wisdom of our ancestors. I don't believe I'll live long enough to see the restoration of Western civilization, but I'm confident that it will happen because reality will out. Progressivism is as irrational and inhuman as Soviet communism was, and just as doomed to failure. Unfortunately, it won't die as quietly or as peacefully.

Michael Maier said...

@ Bob: Gentle Uncle Ted Nugent uses the phrase in the "Alpha Wolf" sense. He's a life-long hunter of animals for food. He'd probably laugh at the notion he was using "Manosphere" phrasology since he's been drowning in poon since before most of us were alive.

Even Al Gore's handlers were trying to convince us he was a wolfen Alpha in the 2000 election. They didn't mean it the same way the 3Rs do either.

hank.jim said...

Neo? Still shades of Matrix. Traditional and patriarchy is not neo. It is orthodox.

Red pill has a clear meaning. Not sure how is was appropriated the where it becomes the blue pill. It is certainly a broad term that does include MGTOW and MRA. So the split still happens.

Corvinus said...

What's this "red pill" reddit being spoken of? I seem to remember briefly perusing such a website, but the posters didn't impress me, to say the least.

As I've said before, the Manosphere is chock full of bitter beta boys, virgin spergs and autistics, and sexless MGTOWs. Those ungrateful little curs should thank God every day that men like Roosh, Roissy, Rollo, and Vox share their insights and experiences with the world.

@Fogey
Well... it's not as if they actually listen to RRRV at all.

Let the Gamma boys fall off the neomasculinity ship. It could do without the extra barnacles anyway.

Alexander Thompson said...

Come on, it's a marketing ploy. The PUA fad is dying out and Roosh needs a new angle or else he has to get a real job.

David-093 said...

Neomasculinity doesn't sound gay like Dark Enlightenment or MGTOW and that's really a big step forward.

VD said...

No, he did not come up with Alpha/Beta applied to men (I've heard the clown Ted Nugent refer to himself as an "alpha" 15 years ago).

Really, Bob? Who was the first to coin the Beta term? Either come up with an answer off the top of your head or admit that you're just indulging in your usual Gamma bitchery.

Retrenched said...

Kinda sorta related....

Why There Has Never Been a Coherent Men's Movement and Why There Never Will Be

Corvinus said...

Come on, it's a marketing ploy. The PUA fad is dying out and Roosh needs a new angle or else he has to get a real job.

And don't forget that Gamers Are Dead.

Cail Corishev said...

I riffed on this at my own blog, but one thing I didn't mention there: it seems I've been pronouncing a bunch of names and things wrong. Do you guys really pronounce MGTOW "mig-tow" instead of spelling it out?

Jack Amok said...

Not sure I like the term neomasculinity but so far reading through Roosh's definition of it, I like the concept itself a great deal.

Oh, and Bob Wallace, Ted Nugent is very much an Alpha. Unless of course he's a Sigma.

Al From Bay Shore said...

I don't give a fuck what terms and words are used. I don't give a fuck who started using the terms first. All I care about is that this "thing" (whatevathefuk it is) made me see some of the shit that I have of improve about myself.

Corvinus said...

@Cail

Yes, it's faster, being a longer acronym like NATO.

Although I personally like the variant "midge-taow" because it sounds insulting.

Eric said...

Neofeminism would describe Game a lot better. There's nothing 'traditional' about it. Bob's right: it's based on nothing but feminist junk-science and sounds more cultish than spiritual.

HickoryHammer #0211 said...

Lol Roosh at 1:50 "How can you attack your own father?!" It's just like Iron man and Ultron. On one hand I hate seeing people I like get all uncivil, but on the other... this is definitely going to be interesting in how it plays out.

HickoryHammer #0211 said...

The Eternal Bachelor Duncan Idaho (lol) was around before Roosh I think. I miss that guy, he had that great British humor.

I watched the video in full, I think Roosh is right about most of this. I didn't know a feminist was running the reddit red pill forum (not that I go there anyhow). MGTOW, while understandable, is a loser strategy that will result in a lot of sex with tube socks. Until those sexbots. Reddit red pill forum will become blue pill with time.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Do you guys really pronounce MGTOW "mig-tow" instead of spelling it out?

I wondered that too. I laughed when I heard that.

Also, "roy-see" and not "hhwahh-see" (as in French) ?! WTF ?! That one really threw me off.

Bastiat's Ghost said...

20 bucks says RooshV is about to slip into a long term relationship and is going to use this as a springboard to rationalize it. I'm MGTOW because I have many more profitable uses of my time than chasing tail. I don't have the patience to maintain a harem and I'm done looking for unicorns.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Awesome! Less competition for men who actually love women and pussy.

Bastiat's Ghost said...

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Awesome! Less competition for men who actually love women and pussy

No actually I'm focusing on going expat. I'd rather put my time and energy into my career to have a standard of living high enough that I'll never have to think about coming back.

M. Bibliophile said...

I have often thought that much of Game and Red Pill theory assumes a general lack of virtue, especially in women. Being born with an ability to observe my surroundings, I can see a rationale behind that in this day and age; it does not, however, make it any more pleasant for a man who generally favors Vox and Dalrock over Roise and Roosh. Neomasculinity, with a focus on tradition, family, and dare I say it, simple virtue (as opposed to simply virtu), is much more agreeable to my Christian sensibilities.

I am not claiming NAWALT: instead, I say that those who seek virtue and who in turn seek husbands to aid them in their pursuit are more capable of avoiding the traps and pitfalls that lead to alpha widowhood, the carousel etc. Thus it is incumbent upon men in turn to practice virtue (again, not just simply virtu, which Game seems very good at bringing out) and insist upon it in their wives if they really wish to live in this fashion. I don't claim this is necessarily easy. In truth, the selection of a virtuous woman to wed is probably the most difficult and important task a civilizationally minded man can make.

Game (virtu) gets your foot in the door, but it is virtue that will allow a man to branch from the pagan masculinity of plate spinning and modified concubinage, and into the neomasculine (which is far from new) marriage and family that our forbears would have recognized.

Durandel Almiras said...

I stand with Roosh, Heartiste, Rollo, Vox and Quintus!

I like where this is going. It's been discussed in the last few months how the Cultural Marxists of all stripes (feminism, progressivism, gay identity, etc.) was manufactured and propagandized out. We know the tools, let's use them for our message, do an even better job, and construct counter attacks to disable their counters. I've been looking for a crusade I could fight in because I believed in it. This soft life always annoyed me and the crusades of the left annoyed me because they all reject truth. It's time to take the fight to the socio-cultural and then later the socio-political.

If this is where we are going next, count me in. Bring the hate on oh culti-marx-ipads! We feed on it.

Durandel Almiras said...

According to posts by Roosh, Rollo came out against him. Always a few bumps in the road.

jSinSaTx #1236 said...

Heartiste is the best wordsmith. Dalrock is great at putting information together. I find Rollo's writing to be less enjoyable. Roosh is probably the least talented writer, but he earns respect for putting his identity out there and taking all the heat. He also is a proven doer across multiple endeavors rather than just a talker.

Guitar Man said...

Good stuff. Reddit is for perverted pedo's, anyway.

Corvinus said...

20 bucks says RooshV is about to slip into a long term relationship and is going to use this as a springboard to rationalize it. I'm MGTOW because I have many more profitable uses of my time than chasing tail. I don't have the patience to maintain a harem and I'm done looking for unicorns.

@Bastiat's Ghost
Based on your talk of maintaining harems and being done looking for "unicorns", I'd say you're a Gamma who doesn't really understand the point of Game. It's not to spend all your time chasing tail. It's to make those interactions you do have with women positive for the both of you.

No actually I'm focusing on going expat. I'd rather put my time and energy into my career to have a standard of living high enough that I'll never have to think about coming back.

Why are you sneering at Roosh? He did just that.

You sound like one of those "foreign-women-only" half-MGTOWs who's not sure what he wants.

thenathanielm said...

Seems reasonable. Sure MGTOW is a perfectly logical choice for some guys, but simply taking yourself out of the game is anti-game. Game itself is about competing better and winning, at least in Vox view (i'll admit I read here more than all the other manosphere sites. I didn't realize it had such a gay following. I figured the Lambdas had their own set of hierarchies groups and rules unrelated.

Vincent Castrillo said...

Dude just went "I am your father" on everyone....love it.

Jack Amok said...

I have often thought that much of Game and Red Pill theory assumes a general lack of virtue, especially in women.

You can look at it as either accounting for a lack of virtue, or assuming it. Those are different attitudes, and both are exhibited by different sets of people in the manosphere.

Eric said...

I don't have much use for the TRP subreddit. It's mostly clueless guys in their early 20s bragging about how many "plates" they have. It all has a "I never thought this would happen to me..." 1990s Penthouse feel to it.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Reddit is gay.

Hells Hound said...

The simple facts are these:

1. A growing segment of men are opting out of the game i.e. they aren't making efforts to present themselves as potential long-term boyfriends or husbands.

2. Average female quality will continue to decline.

3. Traditions will continue to disappear.

4. Demographic implosion will continue.

Nothing will be successfully done to change these things. In fact, any such attempts will surely have the opposite effect, as they usually did throughout history. And there's no precedent for stopping the momentum of history anyway. No civilization has ever regenerated itself.

This is the societal tide we're dealing with. Many people try to swim against it. These are mainly the tradcons and feminists of the Man Up Brigade. One common characteristic of such swimmers is that they become increasingly angry, tired and frustrated as time passes.

Roosh and his acolytes have simply joined them. That's all there is to this.

Rek. said...

Gays be gaying ...

HH be MGTOWING

Why fight for something you believe in, right?
Best to just lay down and give the gays an easy access to your ass.

Mr.MantraMan said...

The alt-right seems to be about someone delicately challenging the ruling taboos, getting a rep but never really devastating the taboos or the ruling class that imposes upon society and then getting down to what really matters having a following.

These leaders still want respect from Mommy Professor, the "Right" coming up short yet again.

Bastiat's Ghost said...

@Corvinus

What RooshV does is awesome if you want to rotate women out every 3-6 months. Been there done that. It doesn't suit me. He's also right when he says water takes the shape of the vessel it's in. We are typically only as honest as options.

A couple a of years ago I had huge seizure. Among the consequences from that my sex drive went away for a few months. What I realized when it did is I could only think of maybe two women I've known over last 20 years that I would be inclined to talk to let alone consider marriage material if sex weren't on the table. It also dawned on me how much less complicated and my life would have been if I hadn't been trying to get laid. I could have sidestepped a lot headaches.

The first thing I ever learned from Rollo Tomasi was that women don't love us the way that we love them. A woman's love is conditional. That started my red pill conversion. I always knew it. He put into words. It took me a while for that to sink in. I think guys go MGTOW because they won't accept this as a prerequisite. If you have seen any of their videos they say the same thing about foreign women that they do about western women. I'm not completely MGTOW because I know that my potential as a provider makes up a great deal of my SMV. Rollo is is absolutely right in that we will always be judged by our perfromance and foreign women are no different in that respect

What I've decided is that under those terms the American women I currently have available to me aren't worth it. I have friends who have married women from overseas. It struck me as lot easier to find someone by going expat. I'm not opposed to dating an American woman but I'm no longer looking. What I'm doing is what I want, where I want, how I want, and save for right here, not explaining to anyone why. I got a few places I still want to visit. I have hobbies I want to take up. I'm happy with a minimalist lifestyle and not chasing women means life is even cheaper still. I'm on the Aaron Clarey 'enjoy the decline' path. I think Aaron is dead on with his 1 in 100 estimation. If you grasp the concept of opportunity costs coupled with the subjective theory of value as articulated by the Austrian school of economics you at least stand a chance of comprehending what I mean when I sayI feel like I'm digging through a pile of horse excrement for a silver dollar. On a side note, The one NAWALT I know is still single. I've known her for 15 years but she's taken herself off the market. If she changes her mind before I GTFO I'll certainly put my plans aside and give things a try.

I'm a white guy that likes dark skin and lots of curves. I like black women in particular. I'm definitely better suited towards putting my focus overseas with Colombia being my first choice. I could be quite happy with an Afro-Colombian woman. Brazil is clearly an option as well.

The bottom line is I have an exit strategy that I am currently executing. With the lack of character of the women up here I put marrying and raising a family in the US with it's no fault divorce laws and crass materialism as being not a lot different then then giving a 3 year old a cigarette lighter. Why risk getting my house burned down?

I know my value and I'm not going to settle. If I can't go abroad then I'm OK with never getting married. Until then I'm MGTOW.

M. Bibliophile said...

@Jack

Fair point. MGTOW seem to assume while those who employ Game with an eye towards marriage would probably say account (I am among the latter). Either way, though the difference is slight and seemingly semantic, it points directly at a fault line that has been becoming steadily more apparent.

M. Bibliophile said...

Feh, proofreading is my friend. Should have read "MGTOW would seem to argue "assume"..."

SarahsDaughter said...

@Jack Amok,
You can look at it as either accounting for a lack of virtue, or assuming it. Those are different attitudes, and both are exhibited by different sets of people in the manosphere.

I quoted you and wrote about how this understanding is valuable to the mother/daughter relationship as well.

Corvinus said...

@Bastiat's Ghost
I see, so you're a "weak MGTOW". Fair enough. I imagine if my sex drive was temporarily knocked out due to a medical problem, I'd consider becoming a priest.

Fair point. MGTOW seem to assume while those who employ Game with an eye towards marriage would probably say account (I am among the latter). Either way, though the difference is slight and seemingly semantic, it points directly at a fault line that has been becoming steadily more apparent.

@Bibliophile
It's possible to both account for and assume a lack of virtue in women. After all, we're all members of a quite stupid and boneheaded fallen race.

MGTOWs have already pretty much declared neomasculinity to be yet another version of "Man Up and Marry Those Sluts," as Hells Hound has demonstrated yet again. I can't quite understand it. It's as if MGTOWs deny the existence of Game or don't understand the first thing about it.

Maybe it's simply due to their low sociosexual rank. I suspect a lot of these fissions are of a sociosexual nature more than anything.

Vogon X said...

jSinSaTx #1236 said...
Heartiste is the best wordsmith. Dalrock is great at putting information together. I find Rollo's writing to be less enjoyable. Roosh is probably the least talented writer, but he earns respect for putting his identity out there and taking all the heat. He also is a proven doer across multiple endeavors rather than just a talker.


Agree with all of that. Ultimately I respect Roosh, he's put his life out there for the world to see, under his own name, and he gets shit done. There are very few people and platforms pushing a consistently pro-masculinity message, so it's great that he's doing that with Return of Kings.

However, there are also some big points against him as a manosphere leader. He comes across as bitter when he writes about women, which has led other PUAs (Nick Krauser, Steve Jabba, yareally - personally I trust their writing more) to wonder if his game is actually any good. He also sometimes blocks voices he doesn't like: he's just blocked Rollo on twitter, and he temporarily banned Krauser from his forum for saying some non-PC things about race and for some general criticism of rooshv forum members. He doesn't seem to be highly intelligent, and most of the articles on RoK are low-quality clickbait, but they've done some good stuff nevertheless, like exposing rape and harassment hoaxes, or at least bringing more attention to them.

It's a bit rich for him to claim he invented the concepts of alpha and beta males. Via reddit, here are two documents using the terms which pre-date 2005. I remember reading about the same concpets, using the different names "Don Juan" and "Average Frustrated Chump", on the SoSuave forums back in 2002-03.

As for the red-pill subreddit, meh, that's even less interesting. I look at it occasionally, but there's very rarely anything worth reading.

Finally, It's worth noting that TRP's attacks on Roosh are in response to his dismissal of it as irrelevant. The TRP thread is here, with a link to Roosh's initial criticism.

Cail Corishev said...

I can't quite understand it. It's as if MGTOWs deny the existence of Game or don't understand the first thing about it.

I think for many (not all) it's simply too daunting. It seems too good to be true, and something that wouldn't work for them -- maybe it works for a good-looking guy like Roosh, but no way could a regular guy get away with it. That's how it seemed to me when I first learned about Game, but luckily I was experimentally-minded (or desperate) enough to try a few of the milder things and prove myself wrong.

So they're like a guy who looks up at a mountain and thinks to himself, "No way could I make it up there; I'd die for sure," so he goes and sells all his climbing equipment.

Which is fine, as long as he doesn't then go around shouting that mountain climbing is for sissies and real men only do cross-country.

Gunnar Thalweg said...

Not neo-masculinity. Just masculinity. There used to be a term, "gentleman." It meant a well-mannered man who was strong and courageous. The American ideal was probably the Quiet Man, not the film version. A man who doesn't go looking for trouble, but if it finds him, he takes care of it.

Corvinus said...

In some cases, I suppose these guys need someone who can actually get what's important across to them, and some of these PUAs don't quite do it.

In my own case, Roissy, supplemented by Vox, was what helped me at a fundamental level. Sosuave did help educate me as to how Gamma/AFC behavior is bad, but didn't help me change my overall attitude to be attractive rather than merely not unattractive. And I don't think that Roosh/RoK by himself would have been enough either.

@Vogon
Good analysis.

Jack Amok said...

Either way, though the difference is slight and seemingly semantic, it points directly at a fault line that has been becoming steadily more apparent.

Indeed, and even though the difference looks small, there's a vast chasm of difference on the other side of the crack. SarahsDaughter's post goes into good detail for a specific example in the realm of mentoring a child, and the only criticism I have for that post is don't sell your husband short by thinking he was born virtuous. He has to work at it too and deserves credit for the effort.

But SarahsDaughter also deserves credit for rewarding virtue. Virtue doesn't come automatically to either men or women, it's something that has to be practiced, encouraged, and rewarded. Barbarism comes easily, civilization takes work. If we want civilization, we need to recognize others who are also making an effort and reward them for their efforts without allowing the barbarians to claim a share of the rewards.

So account for barbarians and be prepared for them, but don't assume everyone you meet is a one. Even if the majority are, you need to recognize the people trying to be something more. Fundamentally, that's the difference anyway. Civilized people treat other civilized people with civility and barbarians with barbarism. Barbarians treat everyone barbarously.

M. Bibliophile said...

Jack, we couldn't be more on the same page if you were listening in on my thoughts. Time to invest in that tinfoil hat liner, I see...

As for SarahsDaughter, I think I'll steer my own wife your direction: I've read her some of your comments before, and she's always liked them (as have I). She's not much of a blog reader, but at the very least it will show her she's not alone in her approach to men and the concept of virtue.

Brad Andrews said...

I was listening to a Sandman video tonight (it showed up on my recent YouTube feed list) and he basically said that anyone who wasn't going the MGTOW way (his version of it for sure) was really owned by a woman.

It shows he has a clear lack of reality, though fit right with the video on the OP and what I have read here. It was funny to hear him gripe about shaming, when that was exactly what he was doing.

I noted in an old reply thread that the root issue is that the vocal MGTOWs like that despise women, so they see all of them as sluts. Thus any call to have relations with a woman is a call to "man up and marry those sluts" in their eyes, not matter what is said against the practices of being a slut.

They will fade away by definition. Life on this earth would cease if most went their way, as we would not have a next generation. Most will not, though the ride may be very bumpy.

MB, I have tried to push my wife there as well, but she doesn't read blogs much either.

Hells Hound said...

MGTOWs have already pretty much declared neomasculinity to be yet another version of "Man Up and Marry Those Sluts," as Hells Hound has demonstrated yet again. I can't quite understand it. It's as if MGTOWs deny the existence of Game or don't understand the first thing about it.

Maybe it's simply due to their low sociosexual rank. I suspect a lot of these fissions are of a sociosexual nature more than anything.


You can complain and shame as loudly as you want. It's not my concern. MGTOWs aren't my concern either.

What Roosh is attempting now has no known track record of success. Many people are trying the same thing: imploring betas to make sacrifices, shame them into taking risks. They always achieve the opposite.

Hells Hound said...

I think for many (not all) it's simply too daunting. It seems too good to be true, and something that wouldn't work for them -- maybe it works for a good-looking guy like Roosh, but no way could a regular guy get away with it.

A "good-looking guy like Roosh"...LOL. The explanation is more simple. Nobody has been able to convince average betas that the energy they need to invest in learning and internalizing Game will yield the results they'd consider satisfactory while at the same time minimizing all the risks that come with it i.e. social ostracism, ruined reputation, the possibility of a false rape allegation etc. Simple as that. You can roll your eyes as much as you want and complain, but the fact remains that a growing segment of men are leaving the mating market. The social trend we see contradicts Roosh's creed.

SarahsDaughter said...

Thank you for the kind words.

M. Bibliophile and Brad - that you would trust what I write to be read by your wives is an honor and responsibility I don't take lightly.

Corvinus said...

while at the same time minimizing all the risks that come with it i.e. social ostracism, ruined reputation, the possibility of a false rape allegation etc.

@Hells Hound
You simply don't get it.

The way to defeat feminism is for men to make themselves more attractive to women. As men MGTOW out, do you think feminism has mitigated any, or has it gotten worse? The answer is, it has gotten worse, and continues to do so. Casual lesbianism has become almost the norm among irreligious girls nowadays. It's consistent with my belief that MGTOW is simply the male analog of feminism: if women made themselves more attractive to men, MGTOW would weaken.

Think of Mel Gibson. He has very un-PC views on a lot of things. Yet somehow, despite the trashing of his reputation due to his famous drunken rants, as probably the world's most famous Sigma, he has consistently gotten a pass from Hollywood's women and Alphas, even if all the Gammas hate him.

Then you also complain about risk. Let me tell you: not taking educated risks is a low-SMV trait among men. Like the man who's too afraid to kiss a girl, or asks her for permission, despite her giving him obviously positive body language.

Hells Hound said...

The way to defeat feminism is for men to make themselves more attractive to women.

Because..what? Why should we take that idea for granted?

As men MGTOW out, do you think feminism has mitigated any, or has it gotten worse?

It doesn't matter if it gets worse or not. Going your own way is something you do for yourself, not because you want to serve some sort of common good. We arrived at the current social milieu because average men were successfully implored and shamed into doing things for some notion of common good. Things will not change as long as they keep doing this.

All that aside, yes, it's very much true that the sexes evolve in a tandem. When average female quality declines, average men have fewer inventives to present themselves as potential partners and husbands, which in turn discourages women from making an effort to improve their own market value. This is more or less true, and it's always affected by female hypergamy, of course. But again, men who go their own way care about none of that. Why should they? It's not their concern.

Then you also complain about risk. Let me tell you: not taking educated risks is a low-SMV trait among men. Like the man who's too afraid to kiss a girl, or asks her for permission, despite her giving him obviously positive body language.

Women don't give obviously positive body language to low-SMV men.

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Jack Amok said...

The way to defeat feminism is for men to make themselves more attractive to women.

Because..what? Why should we take that idea for granted?


Well, for one thing because a bunch of people a whole lot smarter than you are telling it to you, but leave that aside.

Masculinity in men encourages femininity in women and vice versa. But it also works in reverse, a lack of femininity in women encourages a lack of masculinity in men and vice versa. They are self-reinforcing trends when left to their own devices. But they can be altered. I'm not sure how long ago it was, fifty years or a hundred years ago, but sometime in the not too distant past our society was disrupted and set on a degenerate spiral where a growing number of unfeminine women are causing fewer men to behave in a masculine manner with is in turn causing more women to abandon femininity, which... etc. etc.

We need to break out of the cycle. Women aren't going to do it, it's not in their nature. Men are the ones who implement these sorts of changes. Women will exaggerate them once started ,but they wont instigate the changes on their own.

So our recovery will start (assuming it happens) with a return to masculinity, which will provoke a rise in femininity. Why would men want to make a change? It'll be the Alphas who do, and you might think they'd be nuts, the current degenerate system is great for them. Well, yes and no. Do you know how the average Alpha Chimp dies? Not in his sleep. When he gets old enough that some usurper can take him, the King dies alone, without even his hands, face and testicles to keep him company, since they're all ripped off by his attacker and flung away.

Read Gibbon's Decline and Fall and let the fate of the Emperors, especially those who came after Marcus Aurelius, sink in. Those were Romans, or what was left of them anyway, once the most civilized people on Earth, sunk to post-civilizational barbarism murdering their Alphas with shocking frequency. Long-time preference - I'd be happy to trade a little fun in my twenties for a more peaceful senescence and less risk of my progeny being slaughtered on my behalf.

Well, anyway, that's the future. I don't know how quickly it will come, how nasty it will sink, but the sooner men recover masculinity, the better the chance we have to avoid the worst.

Retrenched said...

Women have an unbeatable voting bloc in America and in other western democracies, and they use that to vote for special legal, educational and economic privileges for themselves, at the expense of men (and sometimes children). Thereby making marriage a risky and unattractive prospect for a lot of men. And also reducing men's economic and social status relative to women, making men less attractive as marriage/LTR prospects anyway.

I don't see how giving women more "hot" guys to choose for dates, sex, and relationships is going to change any of that. Unless you think that men can somehow become so "alpha" and dominant that they can convince women to give up the vote.

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