Sunday, April 26, 2015

Child support is modern debt slavery

And the South Carolina prison system is essentially debtor's prison:
A recent MSNBC investigation highlighted that in South Carolina, noncustodial parents can be held in contempt of civil court if their child support payments are just five days late, which means a judge can send them to jail.

Libba Patterson, a law professor at the University of South Carolina and a former director of the South Carolina Department of Social Services, has been a vocal supporter of an ongoing effort to reform the way South Carolina punishes those who owe child support payments -- an effort that has gone all the way to the United States Supreme Court.

In 2009, Patterson conducted a survey of 33 county jails in South Carolina, which found that one out of every eight inmates -- or 13.2 percent of the inmate population -- was behind bars for contempt of civil court after falling behind on child support payments. In Charleston County, where Walter owed his back payments on child support, Patterson’s survey found that over 15 percent of inmates had been imprisoned for not paying child support. In a handful of the other counties studied, the figure was as high as 20 percent.
This is further evidence that feminism, in all its forms, lunatic, liberal, and conservative, is intrinsically anti-societal and anti-civilizational. It's not a simple matter of left and right, because the conservative form of feminism is more insidious, and may actually be more damaging, in some cases, than the overt outrages of lunatic and liberal feminism.

When you read Dalrock talking about Churchians, and The Only Man in the Room leaders, and Man Up and Marry Those Single Mothers, you're seeing conservative feminism. The liberal feminist fallacy is to claim that women deserve more rights than men because men are oppressive. The conservative feminist fallacy is to claim that women deserve more rights than men because women are purer of spirit and it is a man's noble right and duty to preemptively sacrifice himself for the pure sex.

56 comments:

Shimshon said...

The Walker case also implies a potential death penalty (at least if you're black). But that's really a different issue that pertains more to endemic police brutality, and implies a death penalty for nearly any infraction that involves police interaction.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

"The conservative feminist fallacy is to claim that women deserve more rights than men because women are purer of spirit and it is a man's noble right and duty to preemptively sacrifice himself for the pure sex."

Indeed. This really accords with what I was taught, and what I observed, as a little kid. It's all bullsh*t. Christians--including Roman Catholics--are especially guilty of this. "Purer of spirit"--hell no! They're just better at hiding their impurities.

The belief that women are the "pure" sex, I think, has the potential to screw up many boys and retard their full development as men. On the flipside, the discovery in, say, your teens that girls are just as horny and enjoy sex just as much as men can offer a lifetime of sexual pleasure. And attaining a clear-eyed understanding of women's true nature can offer a lifetime of romantic satisfaction and love.

There are few things more frustrating on the cultural battlefields than to encounter puffed-up conservakins and gun-toting patriotards white-knighting for the benefit of teh wimmenz. These guys have no idea the damage they're doing. A lot of them, I would wager, have daughters--princesses and special snowflakes--on whom they dote unceasingly. These females more often than not grow up to become monsters.

Behind every feminist bitch is a doting Beta dad.

spastic0plastic said...

The article refers to "noncustodial parents" and "those who owe" though of course it is only fathers and men who are jailed.

cailcorishev said...

My short version:
Liberal feminist: men are worse than women.
Conservative feminist: women are better than men.

Behind every feminist bitch is a doting Beta dad.

Or no dad at all, which has a similar effect, since both environments have a woman in charge.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

The last paragraph is golden. Great entry.

Earl Thomas said...

Growing up Catholic...I never heard of women being 'of purer spirit' from the church. We were all told we are all sinners. That doesn't mean there wasn't feminist influence from some of my grade school teachers because they seemed to chose that over their faith, but the church itself never says this. One teacher I remember quite well had quite a hatred for the boys.

However back to the topic at hand, yes the conservative feminist women are indeed more dangerous than the liberal ones. You can see the liberal ones a mile away...but the conservative ones sound like they make religion, family, and their husbands a big deal. You dig in deeper and you realize they think they are better than a lot of men (liberal ones mostly...but any man that disagrees with them look out), they engage in things like multiple sexual partners (outside of marriage and sometimes while married), tattoos, and more masculine tendenacies. Most of them curse like a salior when angry and have no idea about discretion. The biggest red flag for a conservative feminist I've seen...is if they have an unhealthy obsession with guns.

Dexter said...

"Purer of spirit"--hell no! They're just better at hiding their impurities.

It is mainly that they just don't get called on their impurities. In fact it is considered bad and oppressive to call them on their impurities - this is "slut shaming".

For any given actual crime or social crime, women will get less punishment than men. Is it any surprise that idiots think women are "more pure" if women rarely suffer the same consequences for their actions as men?

Dexter said...

@Earl Thomas,

A while back I heard a mom say something along the lines of "we are conservatives... but I call the shots in this house." Wasn't directly in front of her husband, and who knows what he thinks the situation is.

If you want an almost infallible indicator of alpha versus beta, ask a child under the age of five who the "boss of the family" is. If they say the father, he is alpha, if they say the mother, then daddy is hopelessly beta. I have heard kids shout at their dad, "you're not the boss of this family, mommy is!" which makes me snicker to myself.

Conscientia Republicae said...

My old pastor asked me that same question about a girl I was dating. He asked me who I thought was in charge in her family and who was in charge in mine growing up.

Remo said...

Well this topic is near and dear to my heart as I am an escaped slave. I did what most couldn't, escaped the U.S. and got 2nd citizenship in another country. No it wasn't based on parental lineage, marriage, or any of the other easy routes - it was friggin expensive and took many years. As I wasn't allowed to see my children while in the U.S. I don't really see the difference between not seeing them from prison or not seeing them from where I am now.

Child support is plain and simple ransom money paid to a kidnapper with the morality reversed - no one who had their children kidnapped would be thought less of if they couldn't afford the ransom .... right up until you label it child support which essentially is the same thing only you never get your kids back as a double bonus.

Derrick Bonsell said...

A conservative feminist, to tie into what Earl said, would be Hobby Lobby Holly. Guess what she did? If your answer is "remained loyal to her husband," you get nothing because you are wrong.

Conscientia Republicae said...

Right, she cheated on her husband multiple times at political conventions/events. Not surprisingly there are more than a few alphas running around at those events.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

"You dig in deeper and you realize they think they are better than a lot of men...they engage in things like multiple sexual partners (outside of marriage and sometimes while married), tattoos, and more masculine tendenacies. Most of them curse like a salior when angry and have no idea about discretion."

You make them sound as if they're closet bikers!

The ones I'm referring to are pussified white males, usually Christians, polite and harmless, browbeaten (especially by the Churchians) and guilty, who part their hair (typically on the left) and wear Dockers, and who pedalistize their wife and spoil their daughter(s), "Daddy's little princess," and who read National Review and Fox News.

Total Blue Pill.

Conscientia Republicae said...

I like to make dirty jokes about women. Does that make me a bad person?

Derrick Bonsell said...

Well I part my hair on the left but it's also longer than most men's hair.

Conscientia Republicae said...

I'm about to go total cue ball. Hair on top is leaving quickly.

liberranter said...

Inre this:

Libba Patterson, a law professor at the University of South Carolina and a former director of the South Carolina Department of Social Services, has been a vocal supporter of an ongoing effort to reform the way South Carolina punishes those who owe child support payments...

By "reform[ing] the way South Carolina punishes those who owe child support payments, does Mizz Patterson afvocate dialing current punishment back to something reasonable (i.e., something that affords fathers the same rights that they would have in any other legal case not having to do with the FI), or does she advocate ripping the thin mask of legality off the current system, doing away with even a pretense of justice and legality, and making the process debt slavery in fact?

I'm sure that my question is both stupid and naive, but I just felt compelled to ask it for the sake of clarification.

Joshua Sinistar said...

Look I know the system is anti-male and these bastards who are paying these debts knew it too. It seems unfair that they have to pay this extortion, but what's the alternative? We all pay through the bloated welfare system with Gubmint workers raking in six-figure salaries? I really don't feel too bad for these guys. They didn't have to knock these bitches up. Use a condom and save a Million Dollars dummy!

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Move abroad.

Dexter said...

@Joshua,

The alternative is to reform the system so that the father doesn't get enslaved.

Bobo said...

@Dexter
I laughed at you comment, until I realized you were probably serious, then I got one of those Iron Eyes Cody tears running down my cheek.

Of course the system is against men. I'm happily married with three kids, but do you think I don'tknow where the exits/escape chutes are?
Never go in an entrance until you know where the exits are.

Corvinus said...

The Walker case also implies a potential death penalty (at least if you're black).
@Shimshon
I'm sure white dudes get killed by cops all the time for that, but it just doesn't show up in the media.

@Earl Thomas
You forgot one thing about conservative feminists: they tend to be FAT. In fact, they're usually worse than the liberal feminists (although perhaps not the lunatics), because liberal feminists are often vegetarians and eat less.

Unknown said...

Until and unless wimmenz are forced to account for the use of such money for , you know, actually supporting their children, its all prizes and gifts! I know too many men who pay child support, yet pick up their kids for their "parenting time" only to find the kids hungry and dressed in rags or with crappy old broken-down shoes.CS Money was actually used for karaoke nightdrinks or mom's other party-time activities

If they want "equality," make child support a reimbursement to mom, upon proof of its use in actually supporting the children!

Paptimus said...

Maybe my understanding of the sociosexual ranks is not as good as I think it is, but the beta dad behind every bitch daughter doesn't seem right to me. In fact that seems beneath even a lot of deltas and more the province of fathers who are gamma or lower on the spectrum. Furthermore, I'm almost certain the "mom is the boss" scenario describes those lower on the totem pole than betas: while not alphas, betas are still dominant men when you take their alphas out of the equation such as in a family situation. Perhaps more expertise is needed to understand how the hierarchy affects family dynamics. Are there any experts around that care to weigh in on this?

Conscientia Republicae said...

Making moms turn in receipts for reimbursement would be a positive development but it will never happen, since that would force women to be responsible and accountable.

Corvinus said...

@Paptimus

The term "beta" used by Fogey above is the general Heartiste term for a middling- to lower-ranked man, as opposed to a Vox Beta. It should be easy enough to distinguish in context; if someone uses the term "beta" in such a way as to be describing a Delta or Gamma, he's using "beta" in the Heartiste sense.

I personally keep the two terms distinct by using lowercase alpha and beta for the broad Heartiste sense, and uppercase for Vox's ranks; so, a "beta" is a Delta or a Gamma, but a "Beta" is a lesser alpha. On this blog, they used to use BETA for the Delta or Gamma, but that seems to have been more or less abandoned or forgotten.

Shimshon said...

My friend does RP life coach counseling. One of his clients, who has been responding well to the advice, had been having problems with his wife undermining all attempts at disciplining his children, which resulted in behavior problems. Parents went to the principle of the son's school. After hearing both sides, the principle told the wife something to the effect of, "Look, my wife also makes decisions in our home. She decides things like what's for dinner, and what clothes the kids wear (and so forth). Everything else, especially child discipline, is my responsibility." She got the message.

It helps that this is a Israeli Chasidish (of a fairly austere "ultra-Orthodox" sect) family at a Yiddish-speaking boys' school.

Mike said...

Seems to me the most effective fix is the restoration of illegitimacy laws and "fault" divorce.

Retrenched said...

"the conservative form of feminism is more insidious, and may actually be more damaging, in some cases, than the overt outrages of lunatic and liberal feminism."

Remember that it wasnt feminazis who let Mary Winkler get away with murder; it was "good ol' boy" white knights.

Retrenched said...

"the conservative form of feminism is more insidious, and may actually be more damaging, in some cases, than the overt outrages of lunatic and liberal feminism."

Remember that it wasnt feminazis who let Mary Winkler get away with murder; it was "good ol' boy" white knights.

Earl Thomas said...

'You forgot one thing about conservative feminists: they tend to be FAT. '

Perhaps...the more prominent ones I've seen are in decent shape.

'You make them sound as if they're closet bikers!'

Because they are. They try to put out one squeakly clean image to the world and then unleash the feminist demon in their familes. But they usually get their bad attitude caught at some point. Twitter and facebook is where they usually have the mask pulled off.

Holly Hobby Lobby is one, Dana Loesch is another, a lot of conservative women if you study them enough you can find just as much feminist signalling in their personality. That's why a woman saying she's a conservative won't cut it. I want her to show she's not a feminist.

Earl Thomas said...

And the white knight legion for conservative feminists is huge.

liberranter said...

After hearing both sides, the principle told the wife something to the effect of, "Look, my wife also makes decisions in our home. She decides things like what's for dinner, and what clothes the kids wear (and so forth). Everything else, especially child discipline, is my responsibility." She got the message.

It helps that this is a Israeli Chasidish (of a fairly austere "ultra-Orthodox" sect) family at a Yiddish-speaking boys' school.


Ah, ok. Until I saw that last paragraph, I was going to say "there is NO WAY that this guy was principal of a public school and would have gotten away with that kind of remark." The sad thing is that even for a religious private school, this guy is an exception. I ├žannot think of a single religious (Christian) school with which I'm familiar in which the principal would dare even think of taking a stand like that against the FI (for obvious reason$$$$$), no matter how biblically sound.

Oh, and I'm not surprised, in light of the information above, to hear about the wife's behavior. Bitchy, contentious Jewish women undermining and denegrating their husbands are the norm, not the exception.

Corvinus said...

@Earl Thomas
I think "conservatives" are simply right-wing liberals. Or, as Vox says, the moderates who prefer to shoot at their own side. Read this, for another great example of "conservativism":

Are Liberal or Conservative Americans More Likely to Support Restrictions on Racist and Anti-Religious Speech?

Conscientia Republicae said...

Has anyone wearing a black robe in South Carolina wondered how putting a man in jail for missing a child support payment will magically render him able to make his payments?

liberranter said...

Has anyone wearing a black robe in South Carolina wondered how putting a man in jail for missing a child support payment will magically render him able to make his payments?

Probably not, but it doesn't really matter. Payment of child support isn't the end goal here. The end goal is the destruction of men, specifically fathers and husbands, who represent the biggest threat (actual and potential) to the prevalence of the FI, which itself is just a proxy for the power of the State.

Remo said...

The solution is to get the damn government out of family issues PERIOD. You don't "reform" an intrusion like that. There is no way to make child support, alimony, visitation, etc. "fair" you can only make it decidable via politics and settled with threats of violence from the state. I wish the damn gun controllers would take a page from this - "Hey we have a difficult family situation ... we have to make it better ... I know! We'll send in the police and tell them to use their guns to FORCE a happy ending!". Bitter family situation + guns is part of the propaganda for eliminating firearms yet the same people seem all too happy to interject so long as a badge is present.

As for the solution Joshua - how about ending slavery? Seriously you're best answer is well we need slaves to make things nice and shiny?

1sexistpig2another said...

The liberal feminist fallacy is to claim that women deserve more rights than men because men are oppressive. The conservative feminist fallacy is to claim that women deserve more rights than men because women are purer of spirit and it is a man's noble right and duty to preemptively sacrifice himself for the pure sex.

Nailed it. Feminism knows no political boundaries. It has long since become the "normal" state of affairs. I wonder what the founding fathers would do if they were to arise and find conditions as they are here and now with the despotism of the petticoat in full stride.

1sexistpig2another said...

You dig in deeper and you realize they think they are better than a lot of men (liberal ones mostly...but any man that disagrees with them look out), they engage in things like multiple sexual partners (outside of marriage and sometimes while married), tattoos, and more masculine tendenacies. Most of them curse like a salior when angry and have no idea about discretion. The biggest red flag for a conservative feminist I've seen...is if they have an unhealthy obsession with guns.

This has not been my experience with conservative women (feminists on the right). My experience is that they tend to keep their sexual escapades wrapped up in a series of monogamous relationships. They don't use profanity nearly as much as progressive women (if at all). Few own guns and even fewer have tattoos. But they usually do seem to believe themselves superior to most (if not all) men, and many are obviously solipsistic. They have no problem with pro feminist legislation no matter how misandric, abortion being the only notable exception. It should be noted, however, that most conservative women that I am acquainted with attend church at least on a semi-regular basis.

Ron said...

@Remo

Obviously you have to end suffrage. To their credit, the grandmothers of today's women knew very well suffrage was headed and wanted no part of it.

Ron said...

Correction: great-great-great grandmothers

1sexistpig2another said...

Making moms turn in receipts for reimbursement would be a positive development but it will never happen, since that would force women to be responsible and accountable.

Even better is returning default custody to fathers where it belongs. Also not going to happen (short of a world changing catastrophic event, which also will not be happening I've been told).

1sexistpig2another said...

Remember that it wasnt feminazis who let Mary Winkler get away with murder; it was "good ol' boy" white knights.

As insidious as conservatives are, the progressive feminazi still leads the charge in the genocide we call abortion. They and their enablers are responsible for over 56,000,000 murders.

1sexistpig2another said...

That's why a woman saying she's a conservative won't cut it. I want her to show she's not a feminist.

If she was born and raised in the US, Canada, or the UK, the odds are minuscule that her thinking is NOT feminist. It literally does not matter what a woman calls herself, feminism is the new "normal". I can't say this enough.

1sexistpig2another said...

The solution is to get the damn government out of family issues PERIOD.

Yep! Also not going to happen (short of an also not happening catastrophic world changing event).

Corvinus said...

@1sexistpig

I suppose then, one must look for girls willing to make fun of feminism, or go along with making fun of feminism.

RC said...

Women are malleable. A strong husband suffocates the feminist indoctrination to the point of death.

Shimshon said...

liberranter, I consider so-called "ultra-Orthodox" Judaism one of the last bastions of hard-core RP thinking in the West. Well, portions of it, at least. Islam is pretty hard core against feminism, but it is not Western at all, is it?

Plump Pleasant Plumber said...

Gents, the only way this feminist nightmare stops is thru a major social upheaval. Civil war, fighting Islamic troops inside our country, something along that scale. Who will fight to protect a society that hates men and boys? Sometimes, you just have to throw in the towel. Let the Islamic beheaders clean them out.

Marissa said...

The Walker case also implies a potential death penalty (at least if you're black). But that's really a different issue that pertains more to endemic police brutality, and implies a death penalty for nearly any infraction that involves police interaction.

Did you miss the part in the video where he and the cop struggled to the ground for control of the cop's taser? Scott wasn't shot for missing child support payments (though I agree that child support shouldn't exist in the first place).

liberranter said...

liberranter, I consider so-called "ultra-Orthodox" Judaism one of the last bastions of hard-core RP thinking in the West.

You're correct. Unfortunately, most Jews in North America have nothing to do with Orthodox Judaism. The background of the typical bitchy, contentious Jewish wife and her milquetoasty, spineless doormat husband is more along the lines of "reformed" Judaism, or, much more likely, devoid of any religious upbringing at all (how many of the prominent Jewish feminists came from Orthodox backgrounds? I don't know, but I'm guessing the answer is probably "none," or very nearly none).

Remo said...

Yep! Also not going to happen (short of an also not happening catastrophic world changing event).

Governments do not last forever SP. None ever has and none ever will. And it isn't like we aren't really trying to bring on Mad Max - you can't keep punishing productivity and rewarding sloth and evil forever.

Unknown said...

I councel young men that if they want kids, rent a uterus.

Never share anything with a woman... Especially kids.

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Ray Allen said...

The legal references that I have read show an economic bias in addition to the unwritten gender bias against fathers when determining sole custody or denying shared custody that I have experienced.

Awarding sole custody to the lower earning parent and restricting the non-custodial parents access to their children increases the gross amount of child support collected, which then increases the federal reimbursements (read kickbacks) received by the state under the Child Support Performance and Incentive Act for collecting 'child support'.

http://www.fathersunite.org/Child%20Support%20Incentive%20Abuse%20Report.pdf.

My state's child support 'guidelines' are also due for review this year, so I've been writing my legislators to get them to use a self-support sustenance reserve to allow the courts to tell the difference between 'deadbroke' and 'deadbeat' dads so that they can offer social service and job training referrals to poor parents (both custodial and non-custodial).

This would let the courts do two other things.

First, it would allow them to measure child support compliance by the percentage of parents who are sharing the responsibility for providing for their children's needs.

It would also allow the courts to focus child support enforcement on the very small percentage of true 'deadbeats' who have the means to share the responsibility for providing for their children's needs, but who refuse to do so without good cause instead of punishing poor parents with the desire but not the means to share the responsibility for providing for their children.

And just for the record, 42 US Code 654(21)(a) caps the amount of interest that a state can charge on child support arrears at 6-percent per year.

If the states that charge illegal amounts interest on child support arrears (such as California and Indiana) recalculated child support using this interest rate, I'll take bets that child support arrears owed by 'deadbroke' parents would be markedly reduced.

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