Wednesday, March 4, 2015

Alpha Mail: Diagnosis Gamma 1

Inspired by the Graduating Gamma series, one gamma we will call GW for the sake of privacy contacted me and asked me to share my thoughts on his situation in return for supporting our sponsors at Castalia House. I agreed to his suggestion and I have his permission to post this on the blog; this the first part of what he sent me:
I won't bother with too many personal details, maybe another time. I'm [early 40s], single, never married, no children, live on own, self-employed.

Not a complete train wreck, anyhow. He's leaving it a little late, but the raw material for self-improvement is there.
Are You Gamma: Part 1

This relates to the first 7 points. Having a tendency to need to be right about something, also being forceful with needing to be right about it by getting louder or more threatening in body language.

Example 1 - In public house getting drunk, was with father at time. Something came up to do with war and pacifism, that sort of area. The guy I spoke to was ex-army although I don't think front line sort of stuff. I'm not sure exactly how it went but I think I ended up berating him over something to do with pacifism and how it didn't make sense what he was saying. There was no reason for me to get wound up I think I just wanted to impose myself on him, being right maybe is just getting someone to back down or submit to me? My father was trying to get me to calm down with body language. The guy just walked off eventually. 

This ties in with something about my relationship with my father. Through adolescence he never came down hard on me, mother tended to have most of the control in that regard. Played darts with him from 16-18 and started drinking then. Would get very drunk, have blackouts and embarrass myself. While he would talk to me about it there wasn't anything that firm. Part of the problem maybe was I was quite polite and quiet when sober, and also slight in build. I think other people in the team/pub didn't say much out of respect for my father, I think I would have got hit a few times otherwise.

Two things I remember vividly about me and my father. One was probably a darts night, after drinking, where I must have been mouthing off to him. I think I was effectively belittling him, I remember he charged up the stairs and I was on bed and he had my arms down and was in my face, "is this what you want??!!" Thats the only time I ever remember him getting really angry with me. Maybe I needed him to stand up to me, was begging for it?

Was about 12/13. Boys down road (slightly younger than me) had knocked on door and run away so I went after them. As it turned out they had kicked ball over wall but it wasn't ours. I don't remember shouting but asking them why they ran away etc. Appears they told some porkies to their parents and made out I "pummeled" them . Given I was never within ten yards of them this seems unlikely! A hour or so later their father came up, my mother answered door. I'm not exactly sure what happened from there and whether the guy was getting aggressive or not but when my father came out as well my mother told him to go upstairs in the attic!! So he did. I think the guy just went and there was no trouble, presumably my mother was fearful of it escalating into fighting. Feel terrible thinking about that because it seems such a weak think to do. To go along with what my mother said and climb up the ladder into attic and leave her there.
His gammatude is hardly difficult to understand. His paternal role model was weak and his maternal influence was strong. He has a normal male inclination for conflict-resolution through violence, but it has been inhibited by his upbringing. So, it leaks out in bizarre and inappropriate emotional outbursts. He's basically looking for a beating, not because he is some sort of masochist, but because he's never been forcibly established in the social hierarchy, and he's now locked into a pattern of turning to drink to free himself from the social inhibitions that have been instilled in him.

And, like all struggles against inhibitions, when he temporarily breaks through them, he overdoes it.
Example 2 - Playing poker at end of night in pub with pool team mates, reasonably drunk. I'd been playing poker a bit online and was starting to play well enough to win regularly. Again I'm not sure exactly what occurred but it related to a particular hand where, to me, what they did was a sub-optimal play and they shouldn't be doing it. I may have been ribbed a bit for this which maybe stoked me up more. I then started a gradual rant which involved me challenging him to 20,000 hands as over that amount of hands I know I'd win (I'm not that good heads up so may have backfired). This quickly escalated. I said something else more personal not sure what, which got him wound up and it nearly came to blows although broke up swiftly.

This was caught on pub CCTV and I saw it the week after. People joked about it and so did the guy involved who didn't seem bothered and was more concerned whether I would move on from it. I'm guessing grudge holding is classic gamma behaviour. One thing that stuck with me was that I was more bothered that the CCTV showed me backing away. It would have wrecked me if they called me a bottler or something similar. My behaviour up to that point was less embarrassing than the thought of being exposed as a weakling or cowardly.

I think I used to rant a lot when at home. Lived there till about 32. I don't remember ever being challenged particularly.
This is textbook Gamma behavior.
  1. Pick an unnecessary fight by inserting your opinion where it is neither requested nor wanted.
  2. Try to resolve the conflict in your favor by flooding the situation with verbal diarrhea. Gammas are like salesmen who think as long as they are talking, the customer isn't walking. But this is a short-sighted tactic, as eventually, the talking is going to end, and the longer it goes on, the less it convinces the other party.
  3. Back down when the conflict turns physical.
  4. Hold a grudge.
  5. Deny reality.
The fifth point can be seen in this line: "My behaviour up to that point was less embarrassing than the thought of being exposed as a weakling or cowardly." He WAS exposed as being a coward. He unnecessarily picked a fight, challenged another man, and when that challenge was met, backed down.

Here is my advice regarding the first part of his email.
  1. Limit himself to three drinks per evening. If he finds himself overly tempted to order a fourth, call it an early night and go home.
  2. Limit himself to no more than five sentences in a row without stopping and listening to the other person. The rants have to stop. They are immature and womanish.
  3. Go and apologize to the other guy. Tell him: "I'm sorry I picked a fight with you the other day. At the very least, I should have given you the chance to kick my ass after I did it. Can I buy you a drink?" That's it. No excuses, no rationalizations, nothing else. Learn how Deltas handle conflict. Learn to submit. Because then, when it's over, it's bloody well over.

41 comments:

Guitar Man said...

I'm currently reading "The Stand" by Stephen King. I'm about 3/4's of the way through his epic. After the latest entries about overcoming Gamma on AG, I can't help but see Harold Lauder as a good example of a gamma. Though fictional, Harold is an embittered, tortured, and jealous young man who carries with him the quirky characteristics of what I've seen some gammas looking and acting like. He has a lifetime of festering resentment towards the more popular crowd, which is probably going to come to a boiling point.

Guitar Man said...

Go and apologize to the other guy. Tell him: "I'm sorry I picked a fight with you the other day. At the very least, I should have given you the chance to kick my ass after I did it. Can I buy you a drink?" That's it. No excuses, no rationalizations, nothing else. Learn how Deltas handle conflict. Learn to submit. Because then, when it's over, it's bloody well over.

Apologizing for bad behavior takes some guts. The sooner he learns this, the better, and will probably go a long way towards preventing these unnecessary escalated outbursts, as it can be quite humbling to say you're sorry.

dw said...

Has there ever been an instance of a Gamma becoming an Alpha?

Markku said...

Probably so rarely as to be effectively negligible.

But people are way too quick to discount the position of a Beta. It's an excellent position. I mean, people actually like you when you're one.

Markku said...

And if someone wonders why the name of the blog is Alpha Game, it just proves they don't understand anything about marketing.

Vox said...

Has there ever been an instance of a Gamma becoming an Alpha?

None of which I am aware. My recommendation would be to stop worrying about being on top of the world for once. Focus on getting to Delta and becoming a real man.

Bodichi said...

@ Markku

"But people are way too quick to discount the position of a Beta. It's an excellent position. I mean, people actually like you when you're one."

Men like you. Men respect you. In some situations the bonds forged between Beta men is closer than that of blood brothers.

Women do not.

When the previous questions was asked how do you respond to some one asking for help, the beta response was to happily teach them. Most men respect someone who will happily teach them how to build a fire rather than just making one. Some men enjoy teaching and feel fulfillment in it.

Women are disgusted that you would enjoy helping someone else.

Markku said...

Bodichi:

Not so. From "The Hierarchy":
----
Beta: Betas are the good-looking guys who aren't as uniformly attractive or socially dominant as the Alpha, but are nevertheless confident, attractive to women, and do well with them. At the party, they are the loud guy's friends who showed up with the alcohol and who are flirting with the tier one women and cheerfully pairing up with the tier two women. Betas tend to genuinely like women and view them in a somewhat optimistic manner, but they don't have a lot of illusions about them either. Betas tend to be happy, secure in themselves, and are up for anything their alpha wants to do. When they marry, it is not infrequently to a woman who was one of the alpha's former girlfriends.

Lifetime sexual partners = 2-3x average.

Bodichi said...

@Markku

I believe that you are taking the 30,000 foot view while I am citing a specific example from a previous thread. The same Beta can enjoy helping someone and fulfill every one of those criteria listed from the hierarchy, they re not mutually exclusive.

What I am postulating is that helping someone and enjoying it is not in itself an attractive behavior, but is instead one repellant to women.

AmyJ said...

@Guitar Man

And he disgusts Fran;, so much so, that she literally falls in love with the next man that crosses her path

Markku said...

It is a singular minus, yes, but the entire Beta package still ends up being clearly above average in attractiveness. Unless you are truly Alpha in your entire mindset, you just won't be able to simulate those alpha behaviors that make people hate you, except for a short time. It will wear you down psychologically.

It will end up being the behavior of a bitter Gamma, not the behavior of an Alpha.

Markku said...

The reason we point to Alphas is that to be able to help Gammas at all, we must first shake them up. They have a mental model of how women are, that is the exact opposite of reality. So, we point to whom those women that have the most options, always end up choosing. No, it's not the pretty but brainless ones, like Disney had us believe. It's the pretty ones, period.

At this stage, some (or more likely, most) of the Gammas will fall through the cracks. Those, we can't help. But some will see the truth, and say "ok, what can I do then?"

Well, you can't be Alpha. That ship has sailed so long ago that Columbus was on board. You won't be having threesomes with supermodels. But what you CAN have, is to be happy. It requires a lot of work, but it can be achieved.

JAY WILL said...

A couple of comments towards me over the years. "You think you're better than you are" and "you need to be taken down a peg or two". The latter hasn't ever happened at least not in any significant sense.

Seems like progressing from gamma tendencies to delta will require congruence between reality, and internal ideas/beliefs about myself and whats around me. I've felt more and more like just dropping out, going loner but this will only make it worse by giving me even less reality to engage with and allow my fantasies and delusions more freedom.



The internet




Jack Amok said...

What I am postulating is that helping someone and enjoying it is not in itself an attractive behavior, but is instead one repellant to women.

Nonsense. It's all in the delivery. Women pay way more attention to the attitude men have that to the actions they're engaged in.

But anyway, it's not Alpha or Bust. If you think a guy is going to go from getting plastered every night at the pub and playing online poker to banging a half-dozen supermodels two at a time, that's not going to happen. But he could very well get to the point where one reasonably attractive woman is happy to be his girl. Part of getting out of the Gamma mindset I think is letting go of this all-or-nothing idea. When you think that way, it's far too easy to tell yourself "well, I'm never going to be at the top of the pyramid, so why even bother to try? Stupid, unfair world...."

Denegrating the middle of the pyramid is just an excuse for not trying to get off the bottom.

Vox said...

"you need to be taken down a peg or two". The latter hasn't ever happened at least not in any significant sense.

What do you mean by that? How can anyone take you down a peg if you run away every time before they have the chance to do it?

SarahsDaughter said...

Women are disgusted that you would enjoy helping someone else.

The Delta/Beta is the ideal marriage partner for most women. In the successful marriages I've seen, the husbands are a blend of Delta/Beta. It is with that blend that women will remain most happy. You're right, a woman's attraction to a man will fade if he is always the "go to guy" that is helping everyone. A man shows high value in being discriminate of how he'll spend his time and with whom he'll spend it. Helping one of the guys with something is not a turn off to women, being an emotional tampon to his wife and all of his friends, is.

The successful Delta's I've known have a tendency to pick their moments. They'll be helpful and kind but then very discerning of when it's time to be stern and relentless. They'll have moments of self doubt and vacillation but overcome those with resolve.

Wise women will appreciate this ebb and flow. Where women's attraction wanes is when he surrenders himself to low delta and quits.

The challenge I've heard from wives who are married to Alphas is the exhaustion of "non stop". One wife in particular comes to mind, when she was pregnant and hormonal, the non stop soft dread due to other women always being attracted to her husband was very difficult for her. She's a Christian so refused to entertain the thought of calling it quits but I could understand how non Christian women tire of Alpha.

cailcorishev said...

I can't help but see Harold Lauder as a good example of a gamma.

Or Omega. The interesting thing about Harold is that he gets the new chance that every Gamma dreams of: all the people who picked on him are gone, and he's thrown into a situation where the people don't have any preconceived notions about him. The new life gets him into shape, and he actually starts to do well and make friends -- but he can't accept it at face value. He can't stop thinking they must be sneering at him. Plus, you start to see that he thought he was better than everyone all along, so it's not enough to be accepted as one of the guys after all; he really thinks they should be crowning him king. He wants to jump from Gamma to Alpha, in other words, and if he can't have that they can all die.

It doesn't help him that Fran is there being unattainable, but that's not what it's really about. He's really just unwilling to change, so he finds reasons not to.

MATT said...

Not so, said Markku and then he told a story and it was this story.

MATT said...

Funny what you say about wives of Alphas. There was just an article about Sofia Vergara and how she laughs when her fiance, Joe Manganiello (wolf from True Blood) makes jaws drop as he ealks through a restaurant. Though Im sure that will change once she reply hits the wall. Shes held up well. Most 42 yr old women look like crap even with makeup.

Markku said...

I have no idea what you're saying there, so I'm assuming it's intertextuality.

Trust said...

The problem I had with self diagnosis of gamma was that I, like most women dare I admit, was always able to rationalize anything since I only looked at it through my eyes. I finally accepted that how I regarded myself was irrelevant to my rank... I had to accept how others diagnosed me. It wasn't easy since I had been making excuses my whole life.

I recall a quote from Dale Carnegie that said rather than reject the criticism of others, consider they might be right.

It eventually was undeniable that the negative reaction of others to me was universal everywhere I want, so the only constant was how I behaved. I spent the first half of my life bitter, feeling I was cheated, when the cure was under my control the whole time. Just shut up and stop expecting others to act as I wanted.

Joshua_D said...

Harold. What a douche. I think that's the first time I read a book where I wanted to reach into the story and punch a character.

MATT said...

Jamiroquai??

Daniel said...

It doesn't help him that Fran is there being unattainable, but that's not what it's really about. He's really just unwilling to change, so he finds reasons not to.

This exactly. Harold gains all the material necessary to make a powerful, lasting change, but instead he keeps waiting for the world to change for him...even though it already did that.

An entrenched Omega would not be satisfied if he woke up tomorrow in Kate Upton's bed and with the world at his feet, because then he'd be pissed that someone, somewhere was thinking of taking what should have been his all along. Same goes for the Gamma, but he'd wake up in Lena Dunham's bed and refer to her as a Hollywood star.

MATT said...

Omegas are all over the place. They're not jealous and paranoid as a rule, like Gammas.

And Kate Upton is a fat pig.

aeolipera said...

Eureka! This post inspired an insight into the dynamics of the social axis (A, B, D, G; excludes L, S, O).

Male social reputations are characterized by conflict. Social archetypes may be predicted according to two personality factors: social aggressiveness and objective superiority in conflict, as illustrated below.

Alpha - Confrontational, dominant.
Beta - Nonconfrontational, dominant.
Delta - Nonconfrontational, submissive.
Gamma - Confrontational, submissive.

To further illustrate this breakdown, let's consider the difference between Alphas and Betas. A Beta may or may not be objectively superior to an Alpha in a point of contention, but for one psychological reason or another he is disinclined to conflict. He will not pick a fight, although he may be driven to conflict by a more confrontational personality (A or G). Contrarily, Alphas constantly seek out small conflicts in order to keep the pecking order stable. Maybe they enjoy conflicts, or their dad picked on them as a kid, or whatever. Doesn't matter, except that they pick fights and win consistently. Big men may seem insufferable, but their constant shows of dominance are essential to group stability as a basic matter of human nature. If no one "lays down the law" consistently, people start acting up.

(In classical conditioning terms, we would expect people who win fights to be more likely to enjoy engaging in them. But contra this expectation it is clear that Betas and Gammas exist in large numbers, which I will address below- in part- and fully at some time in the future.)

As a practical matter, the tendencies of nonsocial, nonhierarchical male archetypes are irrelevant at the tactical and operational levels of human action. They are either too rare (sigmas represent less than 1 in 1,000 males) or the effects of their individual actions on the greater social system are negligible in the short term. Kant was an Omega with an unusually weighty impact on the West at large, but his existence did not affect Germany's GDP within his lifetime, and possibly not at all. Only the social dynamics ought to be considered as a matter of tactics and operations, and only at the strategic level and above should we concern ourselves with such statistical outliers as Kant.

I'd like to introduce a symbolic method of illustration to the theory of male social conflict. Here is an example of an interaction:

B ~ G, a Beta and a Gamma come into peaceful contact.
B ~< G, the Gamma initiates a confrontation.
B >< G, the Beta stands his ground and returns fire.
B >> G, the Gamma turns and flees.
B ~> G, the Beta ceases hostilities and extends an offer of peace.
B ~ G, the Gamma accepts and mutual hostility has temporarily ceased.

Another example. Try to imagine the interaction according to the symbols, and see if it matches the explanation at the end.

A ~ D
A >~ D
A >< D
A >> D
A ~> D
A ~ D

In this scenario, an Alpha initiates conflict with a Delta. The Delta tries to stand his ground, but finds himself outmatched and submits/flees. The Alpha is pleased with this outcome and ceases hostilities, extending the olive branch. The Delta accepts.

aeolipera said...

These interactions are statistical in nature. The archetypes are tendencies, unlike the laws governing chemical interactions. For instance, an Alpha can lose an argument, but they are characterized by a consistent pattern of winning. Statistically rare interactions often give rise to maladaptive behaviors. For instance, Gammas don't usually win, so when they do win they often aren't gracious in victory. This would be illustrated like so:

D ~ G
D ~< G
D >< G
D << G
D ~< G
D << G
D >< G
D << G

As you can see, the Gamma never ceases hostilities or extends the olive branch, because he has never been in the superior position before. He is unable to control his confrontational nature, and continually presses the attack. Every previous conflict ended when the Gamma submitted to the stronger party, but here we have an infinite loop. The Delta attempts to cease hostilities, but this fails to appease the Gamma, and when he fights back he is defeated, so he will continue to be harried to the ends of the earth. It isn't accidental that this matches the behavior of degenerate rabbits (due to mutation accumulation, ref. Charlton and Trust), feminists, cultural Marxists, et al.

Please note that there are some hidden assumptions in place. This is a social model, as in R-selection. Social conflict only has costs measured in terms of reputation, and nobody gets killed over an insult (that would be K-selection). There is also an assumption that the hierarchy exists in a vacuum, with no external inputs to the system. However...this is certainly not the case in the modern day.

Consider the exemplary case of "victim identity politics". In this bizarre new world, there is a real, substantial, externally imposed reward system for failure, and punishment for success. "Victims" who tend to be in a lot of conflicts, and also tend to failure, are elevated to some semblance of success by an authority external to the male pecking order that we've considered. In such a world, it is therefore no surprise to see more males expressing the Gamma strategy of picking lots of fights and losing. Even further, we see that there are no checks or balances on this Gamma male behavior: they will continue advocating for more and more Realpolitik along these lines, and vote for more external rewards for losers like themselves.

Desiderius said...

"Focus on getting to Delta and becoming a real man."

This.

The most successful civilizations (including, at minimum, winning their wars) are those who have a place of honor for their deltas. They're the foundation upon which all else rests.

Dystopic said...

"The most successful civilizations (including, at minimum, winning their wars) are those who have a place of honor for their deltas. They're the foundation upon which all else rests."

Deltas are good men, by and large, and I am learning from their example. They have a camraderie and brotherhood that is very admirable. I joined a local club some time ago that is populated mostly by Deltas, and it has been very fun. They are very into their hobbies and work very hard.

That being said, the ideal I strive for is Beta (I know I'm a long way from that, but someday!). I'll never be an Alpha, and neither do I wish to be one any more. When I see them, I can see how difficult is to be in their shoes. I could not trust myself with that sort of authority. Power is dangerous for the Gamma, but I think it is also dangerous for the recovered Gamma.

It's like a reformed drunk. You may trust them with many things, and agree that they have grown as a person. But you still hide the liquor bottles when they come over. Gammas are drunk on power, even when, paradoxically, they have none. They yearn for it the same way a crack addict yearns for a fix. Even if they could be Alphas, a proposition I find unlikely, they would be terrible people.

But when I think of being a Beta, that sounds very good to me. Follow the lead of another, someone you can respect, and do right by them. Betas I know are very happy, satisfied men, overall. They are sure of themselves, relaxed, always shaking hands and smiling. Somehow you don't even want to fight them, you just want to be like them.

Res Ipsa said...

@GW

I agree with what Vox said about short term correction of your situation. Do that. Long term, why not find a gym or dojo near you that has some full contact sparing? Put on the pads and gloves and step into a ring with someone. I'm not talking about becoming a martial arts expert. I saying get into a legitimate fight and hit and be hit.

Most guys test the bounds of masculine conflict when they are younger. It seems like you didn't. Do it now. A boxing ring is a socially acceptable place to fight. You need to know you can get hit and get up and hit back. I suspect time in the gym prepping and fighting will be more rewarding than time drinking and running off at the mouth.

ajw308 said...

@Matt, Full figured, and that's not an euphemism for fat. In the right era she'd be considered beautiful.

Dystopic said...

"Full figured, and that's not an euphemism for fat. In the right era she'd be considered beautiful."

Perhaps. Personally, I am more tolerant of a full figure if most of that fullness is in the chest. But it is distressing how that term has fast become a euphemism for land whales.

MATT said...

There is no right era for a curveless flat ass'd woman with love handles. Theres no such thing as full figured. Theres only fat. Shes fat. Terrible.

1sexistpig2another said...

I don't know what category I would fall into, and I'm not sure how important it really is for someone like me. I see what the Bible says and I just do it to the best of my ability (not perfect, but improving). It seems to me that parts of the description of gamma fits a lot of women, quite a few teenagers, and some girly men that I have encountered. I see men who lead, men who follow, men who are in the way, and men who aren't really men. It may be that many of us have been in one phase or another at different times.

Natalie said...

@Sarah'sDaughter - I agree with your assessment. Alphas are fun to watch from a distance, but the thought of being married to a true alpha type is just exhausting. It might be fun before the kids start coming, but when your waist is constantly either going up or coming back down, and you're trying to get all your brains cells focused on something as basic as meal planning for the week...... Motherhood has enough hormone driven emotional roadblocks without being constantly worried about keeping your husband's attention. A little tension is great and gets you back in the gym after the baby comes, but I'd imagine that too much would be thoroughly discouraging.

JAY WILL said...


"you need to be taken down a peg or two". The latter hasn't ever happened at least not in any significant sense.

Vox said...

"What do you mean by that? How can anyone take you down a peg if you run away every time before they have the chance to do it?"

I think what I meant was that Ive got this over-inflated sense of self, and that external things haven't burst that. A combination of parents being too soft and a relatively forgiving and facilitating world/state/government/society/community/family has allowed this ego in me to survive. In a more challenging environment it would be broken down.

Ive maintained this self from adolescence, and whereas for many people their parents "knock" that out of them Ive got this "tantrum-like child" in my head. Whats happening is I'm protecting this child in my head (which is objectively me, not an external body) and running away or avoiding anything that challenges the beliefs or ideas of this child-like persona. One of which would be "I'm special".

I have to break that down, burst that bubble if I want to improve or be happier in myself. I know I'm not there but being in my 40's it's brutal to open up about this in public. Better to bury my head in the sand and live in fantasy... but that won't end well.

Ive read a book "The Chimp Paradox" which got me thinking about how I don't handle my own emotions very well or even at all. And how in certain situations the "chimp" in me is going mental in me and I'm looking to get away and avoid whenever that kicks off. It talked about training the chimp in you, I take this to mean "growing up". Well adjusted "normal" people do this. I'm not well adjusted or normal I don't think. The relativist philosophy says differently but its wrong.

What the book doesn't address is hierarchies. Seeing myself within an objective social hierarchy using the conceptual framework you have makes it much clearer. I'm wannabee alpha, in my head I'm special and therefore deserving of alphaness, I'll lead, I'll get the girl, I'll be the hero, but the reality of what I am bursts that bubble every time. Once I'm challenged by objectively superior men I crumble and/or avoid run away. And yet i yearn for that while doing nothing to either deserve it or try to get it.











Vox said...

I think what I meant was that Ive got this over-inflated sense of self, and that external things haven't burst that.

Got it. Yes, your entire comment was very illuminating.

Ron said...

@Sarahs Daughter

but I could understand how non Christian women tire of Alpha.

Something tells me that in at least a few of those cases the woman sees that her Alpha became complacent and gave up some of those qualities that attracted her in the first place.

Based on what I've read, it makes more sense that a religious woman would be more tolerant of Beta "life-building" qualities than a non-religious woman. Rather than the reverse, that a religious woman would have more tolerance of high energy drama than a non-religious woman. If anything, I would imagine that a religious woman's conscience would compel her to walk away (not that I think even that scenario would come about, I think the ancients were right, that women simply have an emotional vulnerability to high energy alpha that we modern men have deluded ourselves about).

Please note my disqualifier - "based on what I have read". I have little real life experience. Just intuition and other people's models and experiences.

SarahsDaughter said...

Something tells me that in at least a few of those cases the woman sees that her Alpha became complacent and gave up some of those qualities that attracted her in the first place.

I haven't seen this happen, personally, but then again the number of natural Alpha's I've known is very small.

The woman I mentioned above was quite rational about her decision to stay with her non-Christian alpha husband. She knew who he was when she married him and still made her vows. Her attraction to him doesn't ever wane. But she has expressed that marrying a man who naturally draws women to him gets exhausting. Though he's had an affair before and the opportunity always exists, she won't leave him. Instead she ups her game and does whatever she can to help him overcome the temptation - thus the exhaustion when she's hormonal. The last I heard from her, she was seeing the blessings of living as 1 Peter 3 instructs. Her husband had even made the suggestion that their children should be taught from the Bible.

A different friend of mine, again knew exactly what she was getting into and said her vows, didn't have the faith necessary to do what the other friend does (her husband was also unfaithful). Again, she was always highly attracted to him - her emotions turned to hate. She divorce raped him, gave up men altogether and is in a lesbian relationship. Her husband, unshaken by the divorce, found another woman to marry him quickly after.

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