Tuesday, February 24, 2015

Portrait of a Sigma

I was reading Blind Willow, Sleeping Woman yesterday and was a little surprised to stumble upon this remarkable portrait of a sigma in Haruku Murakami's short story "Nausea 1979", in which he meets a young man who inexplicably begins vomiting every day after receiving a mysterious series of crank calls from a stranger:

I knew this young illustrator from the time he did a drawing for a story I published in a certain magazine. He was a few years younger than I, but we shared an interest in collecting old jazz LPs. Another thing he liked to do was sleep with his friends’ girlfriends and wives. There had been quite a number of them over the years, and often he would fill me in on his exploits. He had even done it a few times while the friend was out buying beer or was taking a shower during one of his visits.

“You do it as fast as you can, with most of your clothes on,” he said. “Ordinary sex can drag on and on, right? So once in a while you take exactly the opposite approach. It gives you a whole new perspective. It’s fun.”

This kind of tour de force was not the only kind of sex that interested him, of course. He could enjoy it the slow, old-fashioned way, too. But it was the act of sleeping with his friends’ girlfriends and wives that really turned him on....


I found it hard to believe that such things could be carried off so easily, but he didn’t seem the type to spout a lot of nonsense just to make himself look good, so I began to think he might be right.

“And finally, most of the women have been looking for something like this.... What they want is for somebody to be interested in them beyond the—in a sense—static framework of ‘girlfriend’ or ‘wife.’ That’s the most fundamental rule in all this. Of course, on a more superficial level, their motives are all over the map.”

“For example?”

“For example, getting even with a husband for fooling around, or boredom, or the sheer satisfaction of attracting another man. That kind of thing. I just have to look at them to know. It’s not a question of learning a technique. This is strictly an inborn talent. You either have it or you don’t.”

He did not have a steady girlfriend himself....


I probably average a little over twenty-three hours a day alone. I live alone, I hardly ever see anybody in connection with my work, I take care of most of my business by phone, my girlfriends belong to other people, I eat out ninety percent of the time, the only sport I ever practice is long, lonely swims, my only hobby is listening to these more or less antique records by myself, and the only way I can ever get my kind of work done is to concentrate on it alone. I do have a few friends, but when you get to this age, everybody’s busy, and it’s impossible to get together all the time. You know what this life is like, I’m sure.”

“Sure, more or less,” I said.

He poured more whiskey over the ice in his glass, stirred it with a finger, and took a sip. “So then I started thinking seriously. What was I going to do from now on? Was I going to go on suffering with crank calls and vomiting?”

“You could have gotten a girlfriend. One of your own.”

“I thought about that, of course. I was twenty-seven at the time, not a bad age to settle down. But I’m not that type of guy. I couldn’t give up so easily. I couldn’t let myself be defeated by something so stupid and meaningless as nausea and phone calls, to change my whole way of life like that. So I decided to fight back. I’d fight until every last ounce of physical and mental strength was squeezed out of me.”

“Wow.”

“Tell me, Mr. Murakami, what would you have done?”

“I wonder,” I said. “I have no idea.” Which was true: I had no idea.

“The calls and the vomiting kept up for a long time after that. I lost a tremendous amount of weight. Wait a minute—here it is: On June 4, I weighed 141 pounds. June 21, 134 pounds. July 10, whoa, 128 pounds. 128 pounds! For my height, that’s almost unthinkable! None of my clothes fit anymore. I had to hold my pants up when I walked.”

“Let me ask one question: why didn’t you just install an answering machine, or something like that?”

“Because I didn’t want to run away, of course. If I had done that, it would have been like admitting defeat to the enemy. This was a war of wills! Either he was going to run out of steam or I was going to kick the bucket.


What is interesting is that Murakami accurately describes many of the attributes of a Sigma decades before the concept was articulated. The young illustrator is solitary, but successful with women despite being physically unremarkable, is likable and makes friends easily, but has little interest in a social life. He possesses unusual motivations and preferences, has strong willpower and a high level of self-discipline, and exists almost completely outside the normal social hierarchies. His interests fall on the obsessive side. He understands women on a level few men do, but has very little interest in them beyond their sexual utility and is more inclined to view them with contempt than place them on a pedestal. Relationships, both friendly and romantic, are open to him, but he instinctively shies away from them.

As I have repeatedly pointed out, Sigmas are weird, and usually quite a bit more bent than they are superficially perceived. Needless to say, this socio-sexual profile has virtually nothing to do with the gammas who are dissatisfied with their place in the social hierarchy or the omegas who are largely barred from it. They can be reasonably described as a twisted form of introverted Alpha.

82 comments:

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

What they want is for somebody to be interested in them beyond the—in a sense—static framework of ‘girlfriend’ or ‘wife.’

Yes. They want to be treated like a sexual being, a nymph, a goddess, a slut.

I suspect this is something a lot of men find hard to accept.

AmyJ said...

Reading this and the gamma posts made me want to categorize my brothers. One of them seems sigma; he's always gone his own way. This is a guy who both burned down an abandoned shed and competed on the wrestling team in high school. He's a marine, chef, and hardcore gamer. He bounces at a Georgetown (DC) college bar, throwing rich drunk gammas out on their duffs, and builds computers in his spare time.

Upon learning that a former girlfriend had been married more than once, he straight up told her "well, that's it then" and walked out of her apartment. Her subsequent rage was perplexing to him. I don't think he even remembers her name.

The most memorable thing I witnessed from him, though, was walking out of church with him and some random girl calling out to him "bye, I love you!" He replied without looking back "thanks!" It's a treasured story in our family lore.

This is all natural for him. It seems sigmas can't be cultivated, the way gammas and deltas change themselves to go up a rank.

hank.jim said...

Interesting profile. I would never befriend such a person. I am suspicious of confirmed bachelors and single ladies.

It's funny how his friends never find out. Exploits like this usually cannot be kept secret for long. No one should invite their single friends to their house.

He says he has friends, but he describes his solitude. Some people think they are lonely. I would never presume such a thing.

Old Harry said...

Let's accept that women do present themselves as available and willing to sigmas because hypergamy and that it's is a fact that most men who are sigmas will avail themselves of that opportunity. And that a lot of little snowflake gammas think they're "sigmas in waiting". But as men who profess Christ as Lord and Savior, is this the model we want to direct red pill converts to?

Tommy Hass said...

If you read about Krauser, this will not be new to you.

If one of his "friends" were to find out and kill him over this, would they be any better than the Hebdo nutjobs? After all, fucking a married woman is within your rights. Srs.

Iowahine said...

Old Harry,
An illustration does not equal advocation to be sigma. This not offered as an ideal or role model, but an accurate description - and well-written, as was the previously posted excerpt from Hesse's Narcissus and Goldmund. As Amy noted, most likely sigmas aren't cultivated, they just are. Each and every one of us - despite "natural" bent - needs to submit and be molded by Christ.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Krauser is one of the few authentics in this space that I admire. Is is Sigma-ness inborn or learned?

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

*Is his

Vox said...

But as men who profess Christ as Lord and Savior, is this the model we want to direct red pill converts to?

Do you guys EVER get tired of eagerly leaping to the wrong conclusions just so you can shove your sanctimonious heads up your self-righteous asses? Do you derive some sort of preening pleasure out of it?

The "seducing women who belong to other men" happened to be this one Sigma's hobby. It's about as significant as his collecting old jazz LPs, except for the fact that it also demonstrates his high socio-sexual rank. That's the point. With Sigmas you never know what their obsession will be, only that they will have one or two.

That being said, I do think that Sigmas do get involved in more questionable affairs than the average for one simple reason: the fact that they are outside the social hierarchy and generally uninterested in relationships renders them safer for women who are looking for a short affair or a one-off.

Is Sigma-ness inborn or learned? It is not learned. I thought that it was less inborn than imposed, but now that I've had the opportunity to see more examples unrelated to myself, I am leaning towards the inborn side.

I'd always assumed that if I hadn't been a social nonentity from a very young age, I would have developed a more conventional attitude towards social hierarchy. But now that I have a son, I have to seriously question that assumption.

Vox said...

This is all natural for him. It seems sigmas can't be cultivated, the way gammas and deltas change themselves to go up a rank.

Perhaps one of the easiest Sigma tells is when everyone is staring at him, and the clearly perplexed Sigma looks back and says, "what?"

Old Harry said...

Iowashine, I agree with you. My question was a way of highlighting that for those that may not be sure.

Kyle Smith said...

Sounds like a total sociopath. I don't know if that is a good portrait of a sigma unless being a sociopath is part of the package. Lack of real human relations. Sleeps with the girlfriends of those closest to him? The tribe needs to kill that weirdo at the first opportunity.

While as vox says its just a hobby - sure- a sociopathic hobby demonstrating a lack of human compassion, remorse, etc. There are all sorts of crimes and bad things I could do and claim they were a hobby but that would not make them less vile.

Kyle Smith said...

Sounds like a total sociopath. I don't know if that is a good portrait of a sigma unless being a sociopath is part of the package. Lack of real human relations. Sleeps with the girlfriends of those closest to him? The tribe needs to kill that weirdo at the first opportunity.

While as vox says its just a hobby - sure- a sociopathic hobby demonstrating a lack of human compassion, remorse, etc. There are all sorts of crimes and bad things I could do and claim they were a hobby but that would not make them less vile.

Earl Thomas said...

'The "seducing women who belong to other men" happened to be this one Sigma's hobby. '

Then sigmas are just as big a cowards as gammas only they can attract women. They should be able to get their own women if they are so good at attracting them.

Earl Thomas said...

'It's funny how his friends never find out. Exploits like this usually cannot be kept secret for long. No one should invite their single friends to their house.'

Well this definetly has to be a fictional story.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

Perhaps one of the easiest Sigma tells is when everyone is staring at him, and the clearly perplexed Sigma looks back and says, "what?"

Okay, you stop retelling the story of how you met your wife now.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

The arrangement revealed in the statement "My girlfriends belong to other people" allows time for him to pursue his hobbies and other interests.

I'm sure his aloof, non-needy nature acts as a magnet to the girlfriends and wives.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Thanks, Vox, lots to chew on here.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

I've always thought of Jason Segel's character in I Love You, Man as a Sigma. He has separate circles of friends, only bangs divorced women, and incredibly eccentric as seen by outsiders. Hell, he first shows up in the movie at an open house that is run by the main character but is only there for free food and divorcees.

Vox said...

Then sigmas are just as big a cowards as gammas only they can attract women. They should be able to get their own women if they are so good at attracting them.

Earl, are you really THAT stupid. Or is it just a Gamma desire to snipe making you look stupid? ALL Sigmas can get their own women. This particular Japanese one, who may or may not be fictional (as Murakami often uses real-life examples), simply happens to prefer his weird little hobby. It might simply be a twisted form of Alpha dominance.

The tribe needs to kill that weirdo at the first opportunity.

And you wonder why Sigmas don't feel they need the tribe....

Corvinus said...

Then sigmas are just as big a cowards as gammas only they can attract women. They should be able to get their own women if they are so good at attracting them.

Earl, you do seem to give off quite a Gamma vibe yourself.

Actually, the bigger problem is that many, if not most, women seem to have separate categories in their minds and loins for boyfriends and lovers. They'll jump into a relationship with boyfriend material, but keep lover material at slightly arm's length, but fool around with it when she gets the chance. It's alpha fux beta bux all over again.

As I pointed out before, because a woman craves commitment from a man like a man craves sex, a man should never be a woman's boyfriend, any more than a decent woman should be a man's f*ck-buddy. If he gives her his commitment, he's turned himself into her tool.

The only scenario, as I see it, for marriage under these circumstances would be if a woman remains "single" (i.e., unencumbered by a "boyfriend"), and her lover, not a "boyfriend", pops the question and marries her after she makes clear her devotion to the lover.

If her "boyfriend" pops the question and marries her, however, she's an extramarital affair waiting to happen, as she has a fundamentally different feeling about her now-husband than she would if an ethical (practicing Christian) lover decided to marry her instead; this husband is now simply a legally-sanctioned "boyfriend".

Guitar Man said...

“The calls and the vomiting kept up for a long time after that. I lost a tremendous amount of weight. Wait a minute—here it is: On June 4, I weighed 141 pounds. June 21, 134 pounds. July 10, whoa, 128 pounds. 128 pounds! For my height, that’s almost unthinkable! None of my clothes fit anymore. I had to hold my pants up when I walked.”

Bro does not even lift.

If John Wayne is the king alpha of old movie stars, does that make Clint Eastwood the sigma movie star? I mean, as far as their basic characters are concerned? While I'm a gen-xer in my mid-30s, I relate to those two movie stars in their old cowboy movies better than I do any of the modern day stars that Hollywood pisses down us.

Corvinus said...

'It's funny how his friends never find out. Exploits like this usually cannot be kept secret for long. No one should invite their single friends to their house.'

Well this definetly has to be a fictional story.


No, I've done something similar myself just a couple of months ago. The girl did tell her best girlfriend (who gently chided me the next time I was over, but she was smiling broadly and even kissed me on the cheek), but her live-in boyfriend still appears to know nothing about it.

Girls do talk a lot, but they also don't talk, if you catch my drift.

Earl Thomas said...

'Earl, are you really THAT stupid. Or is it just a Gamma desire to snipe making you look stupid? '

What is stupid about calling out men who think fornication with married women is just a hobby? That ruins lives.

Vox said...

What is stupid about calling out men who think fornication with married women is just a hobby? That ruins lives.

Conflating an entire socio-sexual rank of men with one fictional example. That's stupid.

Earl Thomas said...

'Conflating an entire socio-sexual rank of men with one fictional example. That's stupid.'

Well you are a real example of a sigma. Was one of your hobbies having sex with other men's wives or girlfriends? If not...good for you. Because I wouldn't lump weird guys with interesting hobbies in with a group of habitual womanizers.

S1AL said...

Vox,

Not sure what your familiarity with/opinion of Hippocrates' "humor" (or temperaments) is, but from reading everything you say about them, it seems like they lean very heavily phlegmatic: that would explain both the occasional failure to understand what shocks other people and the lack of general emotional expression.

Wondering what you think of that idea.

A Texan said...

As a sigma, one think one of the best ways to describe a sigma's attitude toward sex is the classic phrase "It's not personal, it's strictly business."

betweenhammerandanvil said...

And you wonder why Sigmas don't feel they need the tribe....

Does the tribe derive any tangible benefit from allowing such types to exist within their space/access their resources (including women, in this case)?

Trust said...

It's amusing when people talk about fornicating with married women as if it is just a problem with male behavior.

Adultery is more rampant in matriarchal societies than in patriarchal ones.

Krul said...

betweenhammerandanvil - Does the tribe derive any tangible benefit from allowing such types to exist within their space/access their resources (including women, in this case)?

The women would say "yes".

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Better in bed, better on the battlefield.

Corvinus said...

Does the tribe derive any tangible benefit from allowing such types to exist within their space/access their resources (including women, in this case)?

Does the tribe derive any benefit from Gamma males? They seem to have only downsides, from what I can tell.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

@Trust ~ Good point. The belief that women are sweet innocent angels who can do no wrong persists. In these parts at least, married and attached women are quite aggressive and often make the first move.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Blind Gamma, Laughing Sigma.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

It's amusing when people talk about fornicating with married women as if it is just a problem with male behavior.

Adultery is more rampant in matriarchal societies than in patriarchal ones.


I heard Stefan Molyneux once tell a story about how a teacher had the kids in his (or her) class get blood types of themselves and their parents. The teacher discovered that about 30% of the kids in the class were living with a man who was not their biological father based on blood type alone.

Trust said...

@swiftfoxmark2

It's considered fact that men cheat more, and maybe they do. But it's obvious to me cheating men.get caught more.

Married men who impregnate single women typically get hit with.child support.

Married women who get knocked up outside of marriage have the option of letting their husbands think he's the father.

Also, men who cheat tend to be hire profile than the women they cheat with. Bill Clinton's fame game him options with younger women, whereas it's hard to imagine a man going down on Hillary just because she's famous (my milk just curdled).

Adultery seems to happen in ways where even if women were doing it more, men would get caught more due to status or incentives.

SarahsDaughter said...

I heard Stefan Molyneux once tell a story about how a teacher had the kids in his (or her) class get blood types of themselves and their parents. The teacher discovered that about 30% of the kids in the class were living with a man who was not their biological father based on blood type alone.

That story is still told in class and only the student's blood typing is done now. Of course, any student paying attention in that class could ask their parents what their blood types are and figure out the probability on their own.

betweenhammerandanvil said...

The women would say "yes".

If there's anything this blog has taught me, it's that giving credence to the desires and opinions of women is entirely antithetical to a stable, productive civilization.

Does the tribe derive any benefit from Gamma males? They seem to have only downsides, from what I can tell.

That's entirely possible, but also completely beside the point.

Alexamenos said...

*Is Sigma-ness inborn or learned?*

My mother tells the story of when I was a very little boy that the one thing I wanted more than anything was for every body to leave me alone so I could play with my toys. That hasn't changed a bit over the decades.

Alphas must have a capacity that I simply lack, and while I think it's in part extroversion it's something else too...I'm not sure what.

I find that gammas expect me to be the alpha, and they feel betrayed when I decline. I feel a little guilty for not taking charge some times, but I get over the guilt pretty quickly.

Oak said...

Vox, has your experience been that certain kinds of girls find the sigma type more or less irresistible (notably more than alpha), while others want the spotlight/social rank the alpha provides and are almost totally uninterested in sigmas?

Patrick (Weouro) said...

Maybe Sigmas have autism. If they have a fortunate mix of mild autism and interests that allows them to forget about social hierarchy but not cross too far, but far enough, into weirdness, and therefore find sociosexual success, which breeds success. These are the Sigmas. There are more of them today because there is more autism today.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

There's error, I think, in ascribing Sigma-ness to some underlying medical condition.

M Rtyu said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Weouro said...

I wouldn't attribute it entirely or even mostly to a medical condition. But it could also explain the lower sociability and obsessions.

Vox said...

Vox, has your experience been that certain kinds of girls find the sigma type more or less irresistible (notably more than alpha), while others want the spotlight/social rank the alpha provides and are almost totally uninterested in sigmas?

Yes. The head cheerleader types are seldom interested. The hot model types and the pretty sporty types usually are very interested.

M Rtyu said...

This blog post and the comments are interesting to me. I detest labels but my life fits in this story. I would like to direct my comments to the Christian men. You project your sense of honor, morality and self-discipline onto your women. To my mind its a terrible flaw.

I have always been the same. There are no rules in life unless you decide to have them. Expecting your women to live by your rules is vanity. They do not follow them but surely pretend to.

As a general rule, Christian women cheat easily. Their very safe too, no nonsense or calls or texts after. Being a bad girl makes them feel sexy. The Catholics just go to confession and "POOF" no more guilt.

No autism here, I simply see the world very clearly. Society is a mass of deluded people, there is no reason to be part of it. I enjoy the clean water basically.

I enjoy your blog. Thank You.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Of course, it's also likely that, like the Alpha, it's just a superior, more finely-crafted human being.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

"Christian women cheat easily"

Especially the ones at the big-box megachurches, such as Rick Warren's Saddleback Church. The stories I've heard... wow.

iheardtheoldmansay said...

That's also a possibility, unless sigmadom is inborn, in which case one can't climb to it. Maybe one could finely-craft the materials, or maybe the materials, can only be crafted during formative years.

Trust said...

at a party, the alpha is the guy making out with the hot girl white other hot girls watch adoringly or eve join in. Meanwhile, the sigma is in a closet or empty room getting blow and no one else ever knows.

Trust said...

Christian women do cheat easily because the trust people have in them affords then opportunity without scrutiny. And when they do get caught, excuses tend to be made.

Contrary to popular stigma that churches are patriarchal institutions, the opposite is true. If you don't believe that, try to get your pastor to call out women the way pastors routinely call out men. Most will be afraid to do it because of backlash, and those who do will find their attendance will shrink immediately. It's usually the wife which decides what church the family goes to

An easily test of where the power really is anywhere is this: what person are group are you not allowed to criticize.

deadman said...

Seems to be a case of independent introverts, yet not shy nor weak. As opposed to gregarious extroverts.
K select vs. R select perhaps?
As for the Gammas & Deltas? You'd assume most of them will non-breed themselves out of the gene-pool.

SarahsDaughter said...

I think you mean Omegas, Deltas are the majority of men and by far the majority of breeders.

betweenhammerandanvil said...

There are no rules in life unless you decide to have them. Expecting your women to live by your rules is vanity. They do not follow them but surely pretend to.

We used to understand this. "Nature has given women so much power that the law has very wisely given them little" as Dr. Johnson put it, in a more civilized age.

Bill Solomon said...

dis aint sigma. This is classic old world game (do it till you die). EHS is real y'all.

Eric said...

It's funny how his friends never find out. Exploits like this usually cannot be kept secret for long. No one should invite their single friends to their house.

Is it considered mate guarding to thrash someone like that to within an inch of his life for plonking your wife on your way to filing divorce papers?

MATT said...

@LAGUNA BEACH FOGEY

Spill!!!

Dystopic said...

Ever had Sigma moments? As mentioned in other posts, I'm no Alpha or Sigma, and it sucks, but I'm working on it. Nonetheless, I've experienced a handful of moments where I felt what it was like, if only fleetingly.

I've been a DJ off and on most of my adult life, and I can remember stepping down from the booth, when I was younger, and feeling like the club was mine. Nobody gave a shit about a Gamma behind his computer or walking down the street with his head downcast. But in the club, the DJ was everything. Despite that, women still picked up the Gamma stench most of the time, and it was difficult to get any.

But there were moments (tantalizingly few of them, though) when the right combination of alcohol, lack of shits given and inflated sense of self-importance would combine in just the right manner. I'd troll the club to see how many women I could screw. It was a sport. In the garage, in the alley behind the club, taken or single, it didn't matter. It wasn't even an AMOG thing, it was just a sneaky thing. Wait until the guy was gone and swoop in. The notch count would ratchet up like one of those old flip clocks.

Then I'd wake up the next day, with the whole thing seeming surreal. Try as I might, I could never duplicate the feat on demand. It only worked when it was 100% natural. And then I'd trudge back to my politically correct day job, averting my eyes when a woman looked at me, a Gamma who got just a little taste of what it was like on the other side of life.

In retrospect, those moments sound a lot like the example above.

Mr.MantraMan said...

Sigma here, the one odd thing about me when it comes to sex relations is that I'm about the only one I know who admits he really likes vagina, for the rest of the human herd it is about human relations which I find mostly boring.

Dystopic said...

"...for the rest of the human herd it is about human relations which I find mostly boring."

Believe me, Gammas like vagina as much as anybody. But they like to cloak their desire behind this false Moral High Ground, White Knight front of "but I like her personality." It's also a good excuse they use for why the only women they manage to sleep with are lard buckets. Stick a naked and willing Kate Upton in front of a Gamma and tell him he can have his way with her. They'll have their dicks out faster than a land whale cleans out a Golden Corral buffet.

MATT said...

Posts like this inevitably turn into some sort of twist on LiveJournal personality disorder test results, with "Sigmas" coming out of the woodwork.

Kate Upton is a fat misshapen slob with love handles and the flattest ass since Hank Hill. Would. Not. Bang.

Dystopic said...

"Kate Upton is a fat misshapen slob with love handles and the flattest ass since Hank Hill. Would. Not. Bang."

Didn't say you would. Better believe a Gamma would bang her all day long, though. Anyway, I'm no Sigma, no Alpha. Just a random redpill who occasionally gets lucky.

Jack Amok said...

Is Sigma-ness inborn or learned? It is not learned. I thought that it was less inborn than imposed, but now that I've had the opportunity to see more examples unrelated to myself, I am leaning towards the inborn side.

I'm not sure, but I maybe concur. I think I've spent the last 15 years trying to be a Sigma, but I might just have to admit failure. I care too much about some dumbass heirarchy to walk away from it, even when I think I'd like to. Looks like a power vacuum forming? I'm sizing up the opposition and plotting out my strategy. Someone challenges me, well it's game on, let's go. I can't help myself.

Though I am better at walking away than I was ten years ago. At this rate, if I live to be 90, I might make Sigma by then. Is there an official membership patch? Do we get together on Tuesday nights for drinks? I'll volunteer to be membership chair...

Doom said...

Speak for your damned self! Oh... wait. *grins*

Twisted you say? I don't even need an explanation. Besides, every sigma twist is his very own. Most don't, mostly, terribly, like each other's. Or even their own if I were to guess. But it is comfortable to them. I suppose you are right. I've always wondered if it wasn't a high functioning sort of autism, myself. At times, I think it really is. That just isn't a limit, as with atheist types and their disorder. Usually. More as a preferred jacket or clothing style, easy enough to change in a pinch or for a goal.

Ron said...

@Kyle Smith

I think I just figured it out. The crank calls are coming from his conscience. He is vomiting when his conscience calls him and tells him what he has been doing, and for that moment he is disgusted with his actions.

I think he prefers to sleep with his friends women for two possible reasons:

1. Less drama. The women are not going to waste his time with relationship

2. He likes fucking over his friends. It puts him in a position of power over them. It would be similar if he jerked off into his friends food.

I think when his conscience calls him every morning and laughs at hin for what he is doing, he vomits, this could be why he is trying to outlast his conscience. To really disconnect and move away, would turn him into an animal or lunatic.

Anyway, that's my take on it.

Ron said...

@Kyle Smith

What I'm saying is that the act of sleeping with his friends wives is an abuse of this mans ability. His choice to do that is not a necessary quality of the defninition of a high sms outsider type. That's an example of a "sigma" who is also a "jerk"

This story could just as easily have been about a guy just like this, who instead of banging his friends wives, gives his friends too notch advice about how to keep their wives faithful, etc.

Doom said...

Oh, I think there is a reason for the twist. I have decided that sigmas are attempting to create reality, rather than living within the false notions of it. To do so, one must shatter the illusions and push past the known. Much of the perceived oddness comes from trying to dismantle the falsely known to dig to the core of things, then take the pieces and parts of truth that fall out, work with those, and actually make reality. Some might be insane from failure, others are seem strange because the known, but false, reality doesn't affect them. Much as those scientists who believe in models that have proven false denounce us "deniers". Which is true? Which is popular?

I have decided I cannot make all of reality. But I can make some of it, a small little spot of it. Your skills are great, but your most popular one is your ability to market your... remakes. Just some other considerations. As to women, if they were useful. Children, and a home life, have become important, so I am considering... finding a good woman. Not sure I can, but... time, as all things, will tell. Still, I think I have her if I do the traditional work to have her. Time will tell if I can make this real too.

rho said...

Perhaps one of the easiest Sigma tells is when everyone is staring at him, and the clearly perplexed Sigma looks back and says, "what?"

Lack of social cues is on the autism spectrum, as I understand it.

VD conjectured the Sigma, and people gravitated towards it as an escape. It's not an escape; it's a prison.

Rek. said...

@ rho

That's one way to understand it. It could also be a consequence of differing value systems.

Best example, you are at a family dinner and are told of a young female relative who sleeps around and spontaniously call her a slut in front of everyone. Not necessarily autistic.

What? can either be an expression of obliviousness or provocative incomprehension.

Corvinus said...

Lack of social cues is on the autism spectrum, as I understand it.

Not quite. Being unable to read social cues is autistic. Sigmas do have that ability... they simply find certain aspects of it strange or nonsensical, but play along.

Marissa said...

2. He likes fucking over his friends. It puts him in a position of power over them. It would be similar if he jerked off into his friends food.

Yep, and that's all about hierarchy.

ScuzzaMan said...

What happens to a Sigma when he becomes a Christian?

Kyle Smith said...

@Ron
I think you probably figured out the story.

One of the puzzles of this hierarchy as illustrated in this thread is that it simply makes no sense sometimes because people cannot keep the "story" straight. We have a whole series of posts about "leaving gamma" as if there is a progress towards a human perfection moving along the path to alpha or sigma.

That of course is total crap. In only one way in specific situations are alphas better - hierarchy. The most violent strongest person in a group of men bound by tribal rules will be the alpha even if he is the dumbest, least compassionate, poorest at future planning, etc. Sigmas are no better human beings, and really the sigma is the silliest because it is the one completely dependent on the response to women (well that and the lambda) because men don't follow a sigma meaning they might have darwinian fitness but fail in social hierarchy (their not caring makes no difference, they still fail). So their sexual status is high, their social status is zero. The alpha resents that they do not follow him, but no one follows the sigma.

The sigma - probably killed by the tribe for being a weirdo as I said. He brings nothing to the table, and they don't need him (and the votes of the women don't count).

So, it seems like this attempt to transfer this tribal relation to frat parties breaks down for me. I get it there are pathological personality traits that are supposedly "gamma". But lots of those guys are married with adoring wives. I am starting to wonder if any hierarchy beyond alpha/beta (and really only to understand AF/BB) is too complicated in the wrong ways to be consistently applied. The silliest is when people try to insult others by saying, that is a gamma comment or gamma reaction. A more specific term would be more useful, like "I think you are overthinking this whole hierarchy thing and processing it emotionally." Or you are being petty, etc.

As an aside: Above someone mentioned non-paternity: genetic testing suggests it is 10% culture dependent. Among men that suspect their wife cheated it is around 30%, among men who don't think there wife did it is around 3% (per modern voluntary checking companies).

SarahsDaughter said...

I get it there are pathological personality traits that are supposedly "gamma". But lots of those guys are married with adoring wives.

Really?

I have never met a woman who adores the traits that are common to gamma men. In fact it is often those traits that women get exhausted by over time and finally quit the marriage. She may tolerate these traits, and some women are quite good at doing so, but if she were being honest, she'd likely tell you that when her husband is in full gamma mode, it takes a lot of prayer to maintain respect for him. I've heard from women who take their obedience to God's call for them to respect their husbands very seriously and struggle daily with a longing to be attracted to him, a longing for him to not behave in these ways. She feels vulnerable and unprotected. Dalrock wrote an excellent essay on a similar topic: https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/11/21/she-felt-unloved/

iheardtheoldmansay said...

"The most violent strongest person in a group of men bound by tribal rules will be the alpha even if he is the dumbest, least compassionate, poorest at future planning, etc."

The big dumb violent moron is almost never the alpha and if so it's only temporary. The alpha in that scenario is the guy who's tough as nails and right most of the time.

Corvinus said...

One of the puzzles of this hierarchy as illustrated in this thread is that it simply makes no sense sometimes because people cannot keep the "story" straight. We have a whole series of posts about "leaving gamma" as if there is a progress towards a human perfection moving along the path to alpha or sigma.

That of course is total crap.


It's "total crap" to try to get out of Gamma status? What are you on?

In only one way in specific situations are alphas better - hierarchy. The most violent strongest person in a group of men bound by tribal rules will be the alpha even if he is the dumbest, least compassionate, poorest at future planning, etc.

Wrong. That's the typical caricature of an Alpha according to Gammas. A meathead idiot is only an Alpha if he gets a large backing. While your description of Alpha might indeed be the case in a black ghetto, it wouldn't be among folks of European or Asian descent.

Sigmas are no better human beings, and really the sigma is the silliest because it is the one completely dependent on the response to women (well that and the lambda) because men don't follow a sigma meaning they might have darwinian fitness but fail in social hierarchy (their not caring makes no difference, they still fail). So their sexual status is high, their social status is zero. The alpha resents that they do not follow him, but no one follows the sigma.

Again, wrong. People don't follow the Sigma because he won't let them, not because they don't want to. You have yourself completely backwards.

The sigma - probably killed by the tribe for being a weirdo as I said. He brings nothing to the table, and they don't need him (and the votes of the women don't count).

You don't seem to understand the first thing about how men viscerally react to Sigmas versus Omegas or Gammas. Men are more likely to let the Sigma (or Omega) be alone in his shed making odd inventions, whereas they're more likely to want to beat up Gammas.

So, it seems like this attempt to transfer this tribal relation to frat parties breaks down for me. I get it there are pathological personality traits that are supposedly "gamma". But lots of those guys are married with adoring wives.

Adoring wives who give out sex as a reward for good behavior once a month, and let themselves get knocked up by the UPS man or the dude across the street.

I am starting to wonder if any hierarchy beyond alpha/beta (and really only to understand AF/BB) is too complicated in the wrong ways to be consistently applied. The silliest is when people try to insult others by saying, that is a gamma comment or gamma reaction. A more specific term would be more useful, like "I think you are overthinking this whole hierarchy thing and processing it emotionally." Or you are being petty, etc.

It's obvious that you don't know the first thing about what a Gamma even is. It's also quite obvious that you're one yourself.

Ron said...

@kyle smith

I think I see the problem here. I think you are getting the impression that beta==bad and alpha==good

And while I definitely do not speak for Mr. Beale, I don't think that is his intention at all. Rather that there are different positions of strength within male social groups.

Basically, Alpha, is leader. Beta, supporter. For example, a king and his knights. Even among the knights there will be different hierarchies of leader and follower. Look at how the bible itself calls for the armies of Israel to be called up - captains of tens, captains of hundred, captains of thousands. The hierarchy is essential to order. The supporting role is not evil, or contemptible. Is a loyal son contemptible because he obeys his father? That is a classic alpha-beta hierarchy. Or a knight who risks his life for his king? On the contrary, when men properly make use of these roles it is a great thing.

The case of "gamma" is a different thing. It is the position of the broken man. The crushed, the damaged. the one who cannot function properly. Or maybe that's "omega". I'm not sure. But in any case that position is NOT good. It's a defective one.


Sigma seems to me to be effectively the same as "alpha" but with the nuance that it is a leader who simply prefers to work alone.

In the case of the sigma, I don't agree that he serves no purpose. Think of the fictional trope of the lone warrior who protects his people. The ranger that watches over his brothers even as he goes his own way. The prophet who talks to God in the desert and admonishes kings. These things really happened by the way, and there are even people like that today. Truly good people who can interact with society but prefer their own company to achieve good and enlightenment.

Anyway, I decided yesterday to take on the gamma challenge, and one of those was to stop posting comments for a month, but I'm replying to this one because you were replied to mine and I thought perhaps I was unclear about what I believed.

liam barrett said...

Vox, read any books where the sigma is a central character in the novel you'd be willing to share?

steve l said...

Sigma = above average looking to very good looking INTJ

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