Thursday, October 16, 2014

A reasonable precedent

Automatically awarding custody to the father should be standard procedure any time the mother makes a false claim of child abuse during divorce proceedings:
A father has won custody of his daughter after his former partner falsely accused him of sexually abusing their child. The man was investigated by police and social workers after the woman said her daughter had made "disclosures of sexual abuse". But Judge Jane Miller has ruled that the girl, now nine, should live with her father after concluding the woman's allegations were untrue.
Divorces are ugly enough without women crying child abuse in order to get a more favorable settlement.

24 comments:

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

"But she said the woman had gone on to repeat the allegations, and at one stage a vicar got up a petition calling for the girl to be returned to her mother."

Note the woman managed to enlist a Christian leader for her cause, which, from what I gather, is pretty common.

Feminists and Churchians are allies in the war on men and traditional marriage.

Miguel D'Anconia said...

Also, no alimony for the bitch if not she pays the man alimony. Punish the bitch.

Owen said...

I just don't see it going wider.

I was a target of false abuse allegations during divorce. My child recanted almost immediately. No one cared. No one listened or will listen. Even today (years later), I ask for folks to listen to my kid and all they do is point back to a document years earlier as if it is immutable...because as far as Family Court is concerned, it is.

RCR_Chris said...

Notice this is in England, not the US.

I don't know this would even be possible in the US, at least for the next 20 years...

Bobby Dupea said...

This is a total wet dream in the USA. It's already 5x worse here. Not going to post the anecdotes.

Professor James Moriarty said...

It can happen in the USA. I have seen two similar cases in Family Court (state of New York).

In both cases a female judge revoked primary custody from the mother after the allegations were found to be false. In one of those cases not only did the mother lose primary custody but the judge in a rather swift and decisive move, decided to give dad sole custody with the mother only allowed visits once every two weeks and supervised at that. (And while I am not comfortable giving the details here, even in relative anonymity (the NYS Unified Court System is a harsh bitch), I will say that the mother deserved it. Truly.

I would say that I have witnessed the beginnings of a change over the past five years or so, at least in NYS Family Law. The downside is, while fathers are starting to be treated better by the courts, if gradually, it also looks like this is happening because fathers are acting more and more Beta/Suzie Homemaker and less Alpha, which the modern establishments has been trained to see as Not A Good Thing.

Bobby Dupea said...

In regard to the USA family court, and the professor, none of that is final, none of that represents a solution, unless the woman does not continue to litigate. A woman with the resources to litigate can and will do so indefinitely. And if a woman plays the odds in USA family court, and understands the utility of unceasing allegations that only she can testify to, she wins eventually. I challenge the good professor to name a single instance in American family court when the court told a woman to shut up, go home, and live with prior judgments. One.

--Buena Vista

Professor James Moriarty said...

In the very case I named, Mr. Dupea. She wasn't told to shut up, per se, but she was told she was done and to live with the consequences of her actions. That was four years ago. She hasn't brought a petition since. She can't do so easily since her last was dismissed with prejudice.

And both parties are generally free to continuously petition the Family Court with their concerns not just the women. While I am sure there are a few out there, I haven't met a judge yet that will dismiss a court petition with prejudice except in the most egregious of cases (like the one above).

I'm willing to grant that what I have witnessed were possibly outliers. But my colleagues and I have discussed the changing times in NYS Family Court. Can't speak for the rest of the country, since they all have different laws. But all of us old timers have noticed. Like I said, I worry more about the men that are winning these battles. The might as well be wearing man-purses...

I have lurked here and at Vox Popoli for a while now. I think I may have posted twice. I am generally entertained by the blog entries and largely BS free discussions Vox and the Ilk enforce but I lack experience and expertise in many of the topics (Game, Soccer, Gaming/Coding, etc) and thus, don't contribute. Rather, I let those with knowledge greater than my own inform me, or at least open my eyes. But this is an area that I have some experience and expertise.

Is the justice system changing enough? No. Is it in the process? Definitely. But in a system that takes months to years for just one petition to proceed from first petition to trial, it's going to take a while to completely change. But to those of us that work there everyday, the signs are there.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

"...I lack experience and expertise in many of the topics (Game, Soccer, Gaming/Coding, etc) and thus, don't contribute."

Don't let that stop you. The same could be said about that little club of old cranks over at Vox Popoli, most of whom come across as home-bound invalids on their second bottle of Jack Daniels for the day.

Conscientia Republicae said...

Wild Turkey 101, if you please, LBF.

Robert What? said...

I'm stunned! I just assumed they always took the mother's word without questions. Has something changed?

ray said...

"it also looks like this is happening because fathers are acting more and more Beta/Suzie Homemaker and less Alpha, which the modern establishments has been trained to see as Not A Good Thing."


I'd suspect the same. American men (aside from unregenerate thugs and a few cowboys) are terrorized and cowed in U.S. courts, and not just family court. Masculinity is despised and punished. Allowed another decade or two, 80 percent of American judges would be women. And court clerks, counselors, probation officials, lawyers, etc.

Male submission and groveling to fem-judges in the justsis sistem is pandemic. Not an accident.

Cheers.

Bobby Dupea said...

Any man who thinks that the professor understands the dynamics of family court and cps is a stooge. As he notes, the woman in question has stopped suing for 'protection' or 'redress'. Try defending your son and your relationship with him if the mother chooses to continue litigating. Name a case where a woman filed accusations (for which only she can provide witness) and the court said to go home. Name one. The professor cannot name one.

Jump the Shark said...

The good professor acknowledged the rule. Physical laws, like gravity, are disproven by a single exception, but social laws are as variable as people. If even ten percent of the time custody went to a perjuror, that would be an evil in need of fighting. I think most present, including the good professor, would agree the percentage is closer to ninety. But if you insist that it is true one-hundred percent of the time and dare anyone to prove otherwise is to (seemingly) replace observation of very evil trends that must be stopped with mad dictates that may be dismissed with a single counter example.

liberranter said...

Automatically awarding custody to the father should be standard procedure any time the mother makes a false claim of child abuse during divorce proceedings:

That's a start. Punitive damages along with this would be even better.

buzzardist said...

Automatically awarding custody to the father should be standard procedure

Why not just end the sentence there? If we really want to shake up the divorce/custody/court system so that there are greater motives to avoid divorce, automatically awarding custody to fathers except in cases where the father has committed some egregious wrong would put pressure on mothers to keep the family together. Many fathers would probably feel that pressure, too.

Of course, this could bring about a spate of false allegations as every woman seeking a divorce would feel the need to accuse the husband of something. But if the standard of proof for such allegations were kept high, women wouldn't have success with any allegation they could not reasonably prove.

Rek. said...

Fuck this gay earth! Has anyone heard of the coming change of opinion of the Catholic church towards homosexuality and divorce.

Catholic synod: Vatican family review signals shift on homosexuality
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29603496
At the Vatican, a Shift in Tone Toward Gays and Divorce
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/14/world/europe/vatican-signals-more-tolerance-toward-gays-and-remarriage.html

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Akulkis said...

How about jail time for perjury.

Professor James Moriarty said...

@buzzardist,

"Of course, this could bring about a spate of false allegations as every woman seeking a divorce would feel the need to accuse the husband of something. But if the standard of proof for such allegations were kept high, women wouldn't have success with any allegation they could not reasonably prove."

Unfortunately, the first part of your quote is what I see as the most likely thing to happen. Also, in NYS, divorce is usually separate from Family Court. Divorce is a Supreme Court matter. And since Family Court is not a criminal court (at least in NYS), the burden of proof standard will probably never be raised. Sadly, since Family Court is uniquely able to ruin lives (through Family Offense, aka Orders of Protection and DSS Neglect/Abuse petitions), that is a tragedy separate and apart from the prejudice against fathers. And an even greater one, IMHO. I've seen some horror stories there. Word to the wise: While you may have no choice if someone else calls them (inner city vibrants as Vox calls them use 'hot lining' as a weapon), never, ever, ever, ever willingly bring Department of Social Services/Child Protective Services (or whatever your state's equivalent) into your life. Once there, they never leave, and they can take children for just about any reason they trump up.

Remo said...

If this was in the U.S. the woman would simply accuse again and the male would be forced to pay her legal fees and his of course. Do that until he has no money left and then only she has the lawyer and wins by default. If this was my case the first thing I would do with primary custody is immediately leave the country. Get the passports, get on the plane, and get out with my children. Let her negotiate extradition with Saudi Arabia, China, Thailand, Qatar, Oman or some other non-western country. It will take this woman all of 15 minutes to file another case or level another accusation and playing Russian roulette with family court judges isn't fun and its only a matter of time until you lose.

sysadmn said...

In many cases, the ability of the woman to continually litigate comes from the fact that the man is paying for both sets of lawyers.

How odd, one set of lawyers ( politicians and judges) has decided that another (divorce attorneys) must be provided in this case, but not

sysadmn said...

Cont.

In the case that the father faces jail time over support arrearage. Those same politicians and judges have decided that "the best interests of the child " include enforcing support payments but not visitation rights.

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