Steve has been with me for the past 50 years and Ron for 47. Neither is the man I am married to, nor have I seen or spoken to either since our love affairs ended in my 20s. All the same, there is no denying they have both messed with my marriage to Olly, the man who has been by my side for the past 40 years.Note that Alpha Widowhood is not primarily about sex, although that is where the ghosts of Alphas past are formed. Even after 40 years of marriage, the woman is still hooked on the memories of the two men in particular who made an impression on her sexual psyche; it's not even a little surprising that one of them dumped her because he found "fidelity too hard". She pines for that long-gone Alpha buzz.
I found myself thinking about them both as I read recent research that suggested women who played the field before marriage are unhappier with their lot than those who entered matrimony virginal.
Angela Neustatter has often questioned what life would have been like had she married another man
Angela Neustatter has often questioned what life would have been like had she married another man
My first reaction was: why on earth would that be? I have always believed a bit of experience, in both love and sex, to be an asset to understanding what we really want when selecting a partner for life.
Having no history to draw on — settling down with no idea what else the world has to offer — seems a recipe for disaster, not satisfaction.
And yet there is no denying that my past lovers have made their presence felt in my marriage — at times, even making me question my commitment....
[W]omen, far more than men, according to Susan Nolen-Hoeksema, Yale psychologist and author of Women Who Think Too Much, are likely to find themselves ruminating on how life might have panned out with the past loves that seemed so magical in their time. Whether the thrill might have endured and could have made for an infinitely more satisfying relationship than the one we have now.
These fantasies, as I see it, are like powerful ghosts, haunting the darker recesses of our psyche, ready to swoop in and cause trouble, when given the chance.
Certainly, my marriage became crowded with ghosts when, after my first decade with Olly, the little things that had once been no more than niggles began to take on greater significance.
And observe that it is obviously not male insecurity that is to blame when women are literally questioning their multi-decade commitments to their husbands due to their past sexual experience. The simple and observable fact is that sexual experienced women find it harder to bond to their husbands and to live up to their marital commitments. This doesn't mean it is impossible for them to do either, only that it is a material challenge that has to be recognized and surmounted by both parties, particularly the wife.
As for those who would prefer to remain in ignorance, recall that it is always considerably easier to surmount a challenge that one knows is there.
48 comments:
Especially when the modern woman is well into two digits,
Especially when the modern woman thinks that "you're one of the best three lovers I had" is a compliment
Especially when the modern woman thinks that doing something to please her man is bordering being abused
Especially when the modern woman thinks independence trumps all
Especially when the modern woman thinks a man who has committed to her needs to work for sex, because it means love and attachments etc, the same sex that men who meant nothing got for free, because, they meant nothing,
Forgive me ladies,
I prefer to stick with all my hands to the steering wheel of the boat called "Most meaningless man of the world"
Maybe I'll find and island worth docking to, maybe not, but it ain't you,
Miss. Sexually empowered independent strong woman
" Especially when the modern woman thinks that doing something to please her man is bordering being abused"
Especially when this samr woman thinks that her husbands failure do something to please her is bordering being neglected
Note that Alpha Widowhood is not primarily about sex, although that is where the ghosts of Alphas past are formed.
And that's important, because it means a man can't prevent alpha widowhood by being great at sex and giving his wife lots of spine-tingling orgasms. That'll help, but he's not really competing against great sex. He's competing against great sex that she's built up with nostalgia over the years into something fantastic, and against a relationship that didn't develop all the little "niggles," as she puts it, that make a married woman start to get restless.
When a woman remembers the hottest sex of her life as the time she got completely wasted at a biker rally and was dragged off into the woods by some guy she met ten minutes ago, does that mean that drunk biker was one of the world's great cocksmiths? Or was it the anonymity and the illicit and animalistic nature of the act that made it so hot? If it's the latter, a married man can't really duplicate that. He can be dominant, and they can do some role-playing, but he won't be able to match everything that made that so hot for her.
So he can't cure her alpha widowhood by being a great lover; it's something she has to choose to train herself out of if she can.
Thank you manosphere. I now truly understand, in my very bones, that 95% of the opinions and worldviews of women have absolutely nothing to do with the end result of a rational or logical thought process, or even the product of some truly well-intended yet flawed attempt to objectively analyze the world around them, but rather an all-out, desperate attempt to avoid any and all self-criticism and the emotional discomfort that would come with that. Not to mention the attendant demands of future self-denial, self-discipline, and self-control, the pain of true and real change, that would come with such revelations and repentance.
No, most are not even close to considering real change and are still just sitting in square one, hamsters frantically racing off with the next rationalization.
Would you all had but overheard and seen the veritable Swan Lake of hamster-dom that my date, a gorgeous Costa Rican ballet dancer, put on for me last night over a beer. Tchaikovsky himself would have risen, teary-eyed, with a standing ovation. And then hopefully dumped a beer on her.
Good post.
I have always thought it best for the man and the woman to come to the marriage inexperienced, that way neither of them are making comparisons or fighting against memories. (I did see the study where it seems to be a bigger issue for women than for men.)
P.S. -- The line that begins "Angela Neustatter " is repeated twice.
"Would you all had but overheard and seen the veritable Swan Lake of hamster-dom that my date, a gorgeous Costa Rican ballet dancer, put on for me last night over a beer."
Sounds very entertaining. They can be quite creative at times.
The standard boilerplate answer to this currently on game blogs is along the lines of "Well if you are *alpha enough* (TM pat pending) then she'll never think about those ghosts and if she does then its YOUR fault and YOU should be ashamed of yourself because you aren't *alpha enough* (TM pat pending)."
I think its safe to say the societies in the past knew about this and tried to control female behavior so as minimize the chaos and unhappiness it brought. Bionically speaking this would the reason GOD didn't restrict sex just to make feminists angry but because it actually worked out better for everybody.
"questioned what life would have been like had she married another man"
The thing is she didn't marry that man and if she did, she should still wonder about the previous man. And if she was a virgin, there is still no guarrantee that she won't stray to find someone better as hypergamy cannot be extinguished.
Alpha Widows and Alpha Virgins.
I think the extent and nature of the alpha widow problem is severely underestimated. First, if a woman comes to a marriage with, oh, 5 or 6 prior sex partners, it’s a pretty good bet that somewhere in there is her magical alpha, the guy she’s built up into a sex god, her Goldilocks guy (“this one is JUUUUUST right!”)
Second, a lot of women are coming right out and saying that they didn’t marry their “best sex”.
Third, most of these women coming to marriages are marrying men who are less attractive/sexually desirable than the men they had had sex with before. And most of them have to settle, because there aren’t enough of those top 20% of men to go around to all the women who want one.
Oh, they’re kinda sorta attracted to their husbands. I guess a few are marrying men they aren’t attracted to at all. The point is that even if there is sexual attraction there from W to H, the attraction isn’t as visceral, as urgent, as frequent or as intense as it had been when she was younger. She understands that the attraction isn’t there like it was before even though she wants it to be. She also has a basis for comparison because it’s not unfulfilled longing for a more attractive man – she HAD that more attractive man (men) for sex, but not much else. She had a taste of that, and she wanted more and couldn’t have it. So she settles for the less attractive man (to whom she has some attraction but not nearly as much), and the problems ensue.
It’s a huge, huge problem, and I think it’s one of the reasons for so much dissatisfaction and divorce now. Most women are marrying men they aren’t attracted to ; or are less attracted to than their prior sex partners.
The standard boilerplate answer to this currently on game blogs is along the lines of "Well if you are *alpha enough* (TM pat pending) then she'll never think about those ghosts and if she does then its YOUR fault and YOU should be ashamed of yourself because you aren't *alpha enough* (TM pat pending)."
Not here. It's a real problem, but it's not an insoluble one for any couple.
The "Alpha Widow" problem is not an issue for men. Sure, most men have premarital sex. Most of those men have some really intense sex. Most of them go through bad breakups that cause a lot of pain.
But for men, the issue is commitment – once the commitment is made to a sufficiently sexually desirable woman, the man is fine with that and doesn’t pine away for girls he used to have sex with. Remember them fondly? Maybe some of them. Recall the sex? Yeah, sure, if it was good enough. But pine away for one or more of them? Does a man wish he could substitute in one of the old ones for the current one he has? I don’t think so; not so much. If he could he might add her onto the one he already has. Such men often had (and some have) wives and mistresses. But most men aren’t looking to get rid of the girl he has and substitute in a hotter, more attractive one from years past, once the commitment to the current woman is made and is ongoing.
"Women Who Think Too Much" hahaha! I love the qualifiers, Alpha Widows are real (open hypergamy) but only for Women Who Think Too Much.
I think it's important to remember that an Alpha Widow doesn't even necessarily need to have slept with a man she considered 'Alpha' from her past to feel the Alpha Widow effect:
http://therationalmale.com/2012/01/04/five-minutes-of-alpha/
Five minutes of alpha — even worse, five minutes of alpha rejection — can fuck with the heads of even the most desirable women. And continue fucking with them years later. In comparison — if the reports are to be believed — women who divorce beta schlubs after years of marriage pretty much forget them before the ink is dry on the papers.
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/09/29/five-minutes-of-alpha/
Sometimes being an Alpha Widow means hypergamic 'rumination' over a better Alpha option a woman missed or was rejected by in her past in comparison to the guy she "settled on" for marriage. It's not just the actual Alphas she banged back in the day, you're competing with an imagined ideal and the more women are empowered and encouraged to feel secure in exploring their hypergamous options (i.e. correct their 'soul mate' mistake) the more you'll read stories like this.
RT
And the case for virgins mounts. How much better do you think her situation would have been, even if her husband was objectively more alpha than those men? Not being married, this is my guess: If a woman is not a virgin, marriage shit tests multiply by a factor of around 4, add enough "other men" in and a women will be actively trying to indoctrinate herself into believing that you are not an alpha 24/7, just so she can have an excuse to leave.
It's a valid point. For women, men enter your body, they enter your mind, and they tend to stay there. Actually sex isn't even required, some men can even capture your attention without it.
The problem is, the expectation is all wrong, it can become a self fulfilling prophecy. Women go into marriage comparing or remembering lost loves and men go into marriage thinking that marital sex, if you have it all, is likely to be lousy. It doesn't have to be that way. In truth sex within marriage really can exceed your wildest expectations. Getting it right is one of the fruits of marriage.
I don't like stories like this because it encourages women to focus on what could have been rather than what they could have right now. For men to accept that this is just how women are or that it's an unavoidable aspect of our biology, just reinforces that even more. This woman speaks of how her marriage is crowded with ghosts. Her marriage could just as easily be crowded with imaginary ghosts, fantasy ghosts that she never even met. Women can put anything before their marriage, our own children, even our dogs.
As to surmounting a challenge that one knows is there, the challenge whether you marry a virgin or not, is always going to be trying to remain the primary focus of her life.
“men go into marriage thinking that marital sex, if you have it all, is likely to be lousy”
No. Most men go into marriage thinking that marital sex is going to be great.
Most men are having sex with their fiancées before marriage. If that guy has proposed to her, the sex is going to be pretty good. Most men are not in the business of proposing marriage to women they are having bad sex with.
If the guy is a virgin or is waiting, he is bursting with anticipation, thinking that he’s FINALLY going to get sex when he gets married, and it’s going to be awesome.
For most men, ANY sex is great. For most men, even bad sex is still pretty good.
"No. Most men go into marriage thinking that marital sex is going to be great."
Perhaps some do De ti, Regardless, men and women are wired completely differently. I can't imagine a woman ever saying, "ANY sex is great." So much of sex for us involves our brains. If our brains are not engaged, it's going to be lousy for us. This psychologist calls her book, "Women Who Think Too Much." All women think too much. That's a huge part of the sexual equation for us. That part of who women are is unlikely to change. Even if we never have sex before marriage, we're still going to "think too much."
@insanitybytes22
Please speak for yourself. You must have an incredibly boring sex life if you are able to think at all in the midst of the throes of passion.
The point is that even if there is sexual attraction there from W to H, the attraction isn’t as visceral, as urgent, as frequent or as intense as it had been when she was younger.
Right. I think most of them enjoy sex with their new husbands, but it's not the best they've ever had, and they expect to be less interested in it as time goes on, which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. In fact, many of them believe that's the way it's supposed to be, because really hot sex is bad (because they've associated it with fornication, and thus with sin), so good, "holy" sex within marriage might be pleasant enough, but it's not supposed to be really hot.
So they go into marriage enjoying sex somewhat, but assuming that their interest in it will wane, and with a plan to wean their husband off it. It's become a standard sitcom joke that women intentionally and gradually cut back the sex after marriage, doling it out just often enough to keep him around but not so often that he forgets she's in charge. Even women who like sex with their husbands quite a bit will do that, because control of the relationship is more important to them than lots of sex. You'll even hear women say things like, "I'd hate for him to know how much I love it when he does...," because to have him know would be to give up some control.
One big reason for the alpha widow phenomenon is because women stupidly wait until they're north of 30 before finally deciding to tie the knot, and by that time, they're old and won't attract a satisfying alpha. Unless he's north of 50, maybe. Which brings up the other reason, of course, which is that people attempt to pressure each other into dating and marrying people their own age.
Even women who like sex with their husbands quite a bit will do that, because control of the relationship is more important to them than lots of sex. You'll even hear women say things like, "I'd hate for him to know how much I love it when he does...," because to have him know would be to give up some control.
I've never understood this control freakishness that many women have. I thought women by their nature were supposed to not want control, yet it seems buried deep within themselves enough that it at times even overrides their desire for a more alpha man in favor of a beta. It definitely seems like self-sabotage, since deliberately marrying a beta rather than even an available alpha for control reasons will inevitably cause problems for the marriage.
" I thought women by their nature were supposed to not want control"
That's just another myth designed to empower women. File it with other myths, such as "women are more committed" and."women are naturally monogamous."
Women's aversion to responsibility is mistaken for their aversion to control. Women want to control things, but reject the responsibility that comes with it.
That's just another myth designed to empower women. File it with other myths, such as "women are more committed" and."women are naturally monogamous."
Women's aversion to responsibility is mistaken for their aversion to control. Women want to control things, but reject the responsibility that comes with it.
You're missing my point, which is that female control-freakishness seems diametrically opposed to their desire for a strong alpha leader. Whether or not they're responsible is totally beside the point.
I wonder if female control-freakishness is in some sense a trait of damaged women, sort of like a much milder version of lesbianism.
I've never understood this control freakishness that many women have.
The traditional Christian viewpoint is that it's Original Sin. Eve violated her husband's headship by eating the apple without his permission and then encouraging him to follow her example, so her descendants are cursed with the temptation to commit the same sin. Ever seen a woman in a restaurant second-guessing her husband's order and commenting on how much salad dressing he uses? It's the apple all over again.
If you prefer an evo-psych explanation: it's a way a woman can test her man to see if he's dominant enough. If he continually shuts down her attempts to control him, she's safe; if not, the restlessness she develops after taking control is her unconscious telling her he's not strong enough to protect her so she needs to find a stronger man.
Whichever reason you prefer, it's made worse by our feminist culture which constantly tells women that men are stupid, dangerous, overgrown children who would do nothing but fight, screw, and eat if they didn't have women around to civilize them.
"You must have an incredibly boring sex life if you are able to think at all in the midst of the throes of passion. "
And you must be completely oblivious to what's going on in your own brain because I assure you a huge part of women's sexuality begins and ends in our heads and involves a whole lot more then a few moments lost in the throes of passion. The idea that women can be easily swept away by the physical alone is kind of a deceptive myth to promote because it leaves men expecting they should be able to do the impossible.
Yeah, I'm with you, insanitybytes22. The very last time I thoroughly screwed my first GF, she wasn't even in the same area code as me, let alone in the same act of sex. Her obvious disconnect was actually shocking.
I know women can be swept away by the physical, but they have to be be mentally-aroused first. Or maybe outright raped.
I'm skeptical about the interpretation here, if only for this reason: is the fucking operative? Or will women tend to ruminate about 'what might have been' even if they so much as dated other men, or fell in love with them - for however long - sans sex?
@ Crude: It's degrees. Women love the novel so if you keep her sexual interest, she won't wonder about "what might have been". Bore them or show too much Roissy-ian Beta... you might have reason to worry.
I doubt any woman that routinely shows affection to her current man is pining away for another. If she displays open contempt or boredom, again... reason to worry. Especially the contempt.
I bet Roissy's fake rape would solidify your spot as top stallion for a good while.
The standard boilerplate answer to this currently on game blogs is along the lines of "Well if you are *alpha enough* (TM pat pending) then she'll never think about those ghosts and if she does then its YOUR fault and YOU should be ashamed of yourself because you aren't *alpha enough* (TM pat pending)."
The secret, I think, is to be your own judge. Don't judge yourself on her behavior, learn to judge yourself against your own (high) standards. Her reaction to you is just input data, it's not the final score. If your best isn't good enough for her, it'll be good enough for another woman. Just make sure you're really doing your best.
A woman will hamster herself into thinking you should accept her being twenty (or thirty, or two hundred) pounds overweight because that's easier than laying off the Doritos and lifting some weights. Don't make her mistake and rationalize underachievement yourself. Be as alpha as you can be. If that's not enough for her, don't worry about it because there's nothing more you could do.
But.... be as alpha as you can be.
.
Also its important to note that in the distant past whether your woman was haaaapy or not didn't matter as much. She had little choice in the matter and the current legal regime wasn't even a twinkle in the devils eye. If you left your husband you didn't get his money, house, children, etc. you got homelessness, starvation, exposure, and poverty.
Now of course unhappiness is rewarded handsomely so suddenly this is a huge problem. If you marry a virgin and she doesn't have ghosts you are okay but maybe she is curious so maybe you aren't okay. If you marry a slut she's comparing you to every alpha she's been with and you can't match up to her fantasies so her unhappiness is assured and leads to divorce court.
Personally I can't see an answer here beyond moving away from the West while also increasing your alpha traits. Every man has beta moments, we get sick, we get frustrated, we have to cowtow to someone. No alpha is the best in his womans eyes forever. Afterall even GOD himself lost out to the devil in Eve's eyes and that's why we are all in this mess now. Interestingly enough the best answer for Adam in the garden would have been to slap the fruit out of Eve's hand before she bit - something that would get him arrested in today's modern enlightened society but its not new that that which is holy is often illegal.
I think the extent and nature of the alpha widow problem is severely underestimated. First, if a woman comes to a marriage with, oh, 5 or 6 prior sex partners, it’s a pretty good bet that somewhere in there is her magical alpha, the guy she’s built up into a sex god, her Goldilocks guy (“this one is JUUUUUST right!”)
Let's consider the typical woman's 5 or 6 pre-marital sex partners. We'll make her a little bit of a prude by todays' standards, and assume she engaged in typical serial monogamy, going through relationships with 6 guys, one every 18 months on average, between the ages (her ages) of 19 and 28. What do we know about these guys?
They were banging a young, fertile woman at the height of her SMV, but, for some inexplicable reason, she wasn't able to get a commitment out of any of them.
Now, along comes her soul mate who marries her as she's going on 30, not hitting the wall yet, but also not quite as hot as she was ten years ago.
So, compare and contrast. Able to bang hot girl without making commitment vs needs to make commitment in order to bang less-hot girl. As Rossiy might say, let's play "Spot the Alpha."
'Even after 40 years of marriage, the woman is still hooked on the memories of the two men in particular who made an impression on her sexual psyche'
Exactly. This is the nature of the female, as her bio-psychology calls her to identification and selection of 'elites'. This becomes her lifelong image of manliness.
The only solution to this is biblical (lifelong) marriage early in life, especially for females, and strict fidelity thereafter, supported by the larger culture.
Its time to get real here. Women are NOT going to stop:
Banging about 30-50 guys by age 32 or so.
Delaying Marriage until about 30-35, more on the 35 side.
Being therefore MASSIVE Alpha Widows to any beta male schlub they marry.
The solution therefore for any rational male, is to abjure marriage and live like a Rap Star. As much as possible. Want kids? HAVE THEM. Just don't get married. Have a bunch in fact. Kevin Federline or Antonio Cromartie should be your role models. BE as Alpha as you can, and spread your seed far and wide, take responsibility for nothing (women will love all the more for it), and always be moving towards more Alpha.
Naturally, a beta male schlub who works in an office nine to five is not going to be hitting the clubs and pulling girls like say, Cromartie or Chris Brown, but he can move towards more Alpha. Maybe he dates at the same time, two girls of middling attractiveness. Has kids with both, marries neither. That's definitely do-able, and will give your beta male schlub the best chance for sex, love, and family. He never marries so there is no divorce. He sees the kids or not, pays or not, as courts order just as in divorce. He keeps his own property. He might be liable for child support, but if he's enough of an A-hole both women are likely to forgive him. He can be the mini-Alpha the women then pine for as Alpha Widows. Its always better to be the Alpha that a woman is "widowed" by than the beta schlub who is a sucker.
Never be the sucker.
In short, marriage is for men a poor bet unless you are: A. Tom Brady. B. Brad Pitt. C. George Clooney. D. Jay-Z. Or E. In that class of man. For everyone else, the rational play is to be as mini alpha as you can. Lift, martial arts, boxing, acting class, practiced charisma, etc. Game helps.
And its what women WANT. All those Alpha Widows would have been much happier including the OP woman in the story if they had just had kids with said Alphas, the Alphas had been around and not, like a Federline or Cromartie, and they had their own single motherhood society.
Women want Single Motherhood and I think they should get it, good and hard.
@ whiskey
Well, when the women are whores, then men should A. become whoremongers or B. just avoid women. To do otherwise is pretty stupid really.
Sharing this link. Should be helpful.
She thought she could get better. Now she's alone and childless
They were banging a young, fertile woman at the height of her SMV, but, for some inexplicable reason, she wasn't able to get a commitment out of any of them.
Actually, it's more likely that she could have married at least a few of them, but she either turned down proposals or made it clear to them that she wasn't interested in marriage yet. So the man she's suddenly interested in marrying has to ask himself not why no other man wanted to marry her, but why him and why now? Is there really something special about him that makes him more irresistible than the others, or is she reacting to her ticking fertility clock and any willing man would do?
Banging about 30-50 guys by age 32 or so.
That's not getting real. That's not even close to real. Don't be such a butthurt, bitter Gamma that you construct a new delusion to replace your previous one.
@insanitybytes22
"And you must be completely oblivious to what's going on in your own brain because I assure you a huge part of women's sexuality begins and ends in our heads and involves a whole lot more then a few moments lost in the throes of passion."
Yep, you have a boring sex life
Yeah, the new standard appears to be "10 by 30." More than that is still seen as slutty by most women. Of course, a woman claiming 10 probably isn't counting a couple of blowjobs and a drunken hookup or two; but that's still way short of 30-50.
That's bad enough; no need to exaggerate the problem. One previous lover is too many anyway, if she's sufficiently bonded to him.
"Yep, you have a boring sex life"
And yet my alleged "boring" sex life seems to featuring itself so prominently in your mind, that you keep bringing it up.
Eowyn, meet GG, a.k.a. insanitybytes22. Her entire purpose here is to make every discussion about her. Just back away slowly and no one gets hurt.
@cailcorishev
It all makes sense now
Jack: “They were banging a young, fertile woman at the height of her SMV, but, for some inexplicable reason, she wasn't able to get a commitment out of any of them. “
Cail: “Actually, it's more likely that she could have married at least a few of them, but she either turned down proposals or made it clear to them that she wasn't interested in marriage yet.”
Yeah, but it’s even more likely that she is just not interested in marriage yet or thinking about it. There’s time for that later, you see. It’s unlikely she’s getting any proposals when she’s making it very clear that she’s not about marriage and commitment. One can look at such a girl and see that she’s about getting drunk, getting high, getting laid on occasion with a sufficiently hot guy, partying down, and having an all around good time. Some of those guys would want to lock her down for an exclusive relationship, but she turns them down or drifts off or just says she doesn’t want to get serious.
Women like this literally deserve a punch in the jaw.
(I did see the study where it seems to be a bigger issue for women than for men.)
When men commit, they commit. When women commit... it's for as long as there are still some gifts from the reception remaining to be unwrapped.
Women can put anything before their marriage, our own children, even our dogs.
That's because the legal system allows them to value their dogs more than the love of their husbands -- after all, she's going to get free money and prizes if he leaves, whereas if her dog leaves, she gets nothing.
The standard boilerplate answer to this currently on game blogs is along the lines of "Well if you are *alpha enough* (TM pat pending) then she'll never think about those ghosts and if she does then its YOUR fault and YOU should be ashamed of yourself because you aren't *alpha enough* (TM pat pending)."
Not here. It's a real problem, but it's not an insoluble one for any couple.
I'm beginning to think that for most marriages, regular spankings, sans clothing below her waist, is the only solution. Literally beat the hamster back into its cage.
Yeah, but it’s even more likely that she is just not interested in marriage yet or thinking about it. There’s time for that later, you see. It’s unlikely she’s getting any proposals when she’s making it very clear that she’s not about marriage and commitment. One can look at such a girl and see that she’s about getting drunk, getting high, getting laid on occasion with a sufficiently hot guy
Plus, a woman can generally get a much higher value man to have sex with her than she can get to commit to her. A female SMV 6 can fairly easily get a 7 or 8 to screw her on a regular basis, but they won't commit. The male 6 in her friendzone would propose in a heart-beat with an over the top, cringe-worthy romantic gesture to boot, but what are the odds she's going to even date him, let along accept his marriage proposal, when Mr Seven and occasionally Mr. Eight are making booty calls?
She of course doesn't realize that, she just thinks she's an 8 because she can get attention from hot guys. She'd marry Mr. Eight in a civil ceremony and go to a strip club for their honeymoon if he asked. But, he turns out to be a jerk. They all turn out to be jerks. Freddy Friendzone-Six isn't a jerk of course, but he's just not her type. He'll make a great guy for some lucky girl someday though. If only she could find a guy like Freddy...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmbRmfxG5f4
see it
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