Monday, September 22, 2014

Feminist philosophy

It's amusing to see women hesitant to endorse perv-shaming for fear that doing so will come back to haunt women:
Slut-shaming is wrong. We all know that – even Robin Thicke could probably hazard a guess in that direction. Ditto fat-shaming. It’s never OK to publically humiliate someone because of their gender, weight or relationship history.

But what about shaming someone for being sleazy?

Welcome to the murky world of perv-shaming, where young women are publically naming and shaming men who have supposedly sexually harassed, or assaulted them. There was a prime example this week, when American bartender Laura Ramadei wrote an open letter on Facebook to a man who allegedly groped her.... In posting Lederman's personal details online, Ramadei’s actions reflect a wider trend - that for seeking justice via social media. She is relying on people power to hand down a public and humiliating punishment.

There's no mention of reporting Lederman to anyone official.

Of course, this is a one off. An isolated incident. But, other recent examples are more serious - I'm thinking of the movement started by video games fans, called #Gamergate, aimed at publicly shaming certain female players.... These women are victims of online mobs. Just like victims of revenge porn - where ex-partners post explicit photos and personal information about women online - they have been publicly and unfairly named and shamed.

They deserve our sympathy. But does someone like Lederman?

After all, he allegedly groped a young woman. And he definitely made a sexually inappropriate joke about taking her ‘to go’. But does that justify Ramadei posting his personal details on the internet and perv-shaming him?

It’s a complex issue. On one hand, raising awareness about sexual harassment is incredibly important. Websites like the Everyday Sexism project have shown us that. But there is a difference between highlighting a problem and becoming a vigilante.
Observe the woman's dilemma. If slut-shaming and fat-shaming is wrong, then so is perv-shaming. And if perv-shaming is right, then what is the argument against slut-shaming and fat-shaming? After all, sluttery and obesity are considerably easier to prove than a claim to have been bottom-pinched.

These are the deep philosophical questions with which the feminists of today must wrestle. Notice that male occupations such as the Beautiful and the True don't come into it, as the central concern is "could it have the consequence of making women feel bad".

31 comments:

liberranter said...

American bartender Laura Ramadei wrote an open letter on Facebook to a man who allegedly groped her.... 

First of all, to give credit where it's due, I appreciate the author inserting the word "allegedly" into her commentary. That's a word that feministas seem allergic to when it comes to accusing men of all sorts of evildoing.

With that out of the way, I feel compelled to ask: what kind of bar was mizz Ramadei working in? Hooter's? A biker bar? A place where bartender(ettes/esses) were "encouraged" by management to get flirty with and dress provocatively for the customers so as to increase drink sales? I ask this not to excuse the behavior in which Mr. Lederman is ALLEGED to have engaged, but to prompt thought as to why he might have been motivated to engage in such behavior - IF HE INDEED DID (hopefully we all know better in this day and age than to take any woman's word at face value when it comes to SH accusations).

Not that I'm naive or foolish enough to ever expect a femagendist to even think of asking such a question, but imagine if the author had at some point rhetorically asked: what might mizz Ramadei have been saying or doing, contrary to common(?) sense best practices, that would have otherwise probably prevented the ALLEGED incident from happening, that paved the way for Mr. Lederman's ALLEGED acts of "harrassment?"

"Blame the 'victim'" accusers can feel free to flame away at this point.

D. Lane said...

"Blame the 'victim'" accusers can feel free to flame away at this point.

She was perfectly innocent, I tell you! Innocent! You horrible, horrible man!

jimmy-jimbo said...

If perv-shaming succeeds, I guess they have to find some other reason to be victims.

Women love to be the center of attention. This perv-shaming will put a stop to that and they might regret it.

Criminalizing consensual sex on college campuses will most certainly stop hook ups and no one is happy about that.

Shaming works if you have morals. This is false moralizing. Slut shaming is about humiliation and embarrassment. Perv-shaming won't accomplish this because men are not women who won't respond to humiliation and embarrassment after all, the pervs willingly do this in public to get a rise.

Larry said...

It is always ok to shame the Hetrosexual, White Male (HWM). When an HWM is accused, the alleged victim should automatically be afforded the courtesy of being considered an actual victim.

Perv shaming anyone other than a HWM is usually wrong depending on the circumstance. Perv shaming a woman is never ok.

therationalmale.com said...

If slut-shaming is wrong, then shouldn't Player-hating be wrong too?

RT

Vincent Castrillo said...

There is no dilemma. A blip of logic blew over this author for a fleeting moment and will be easily forgotten and pushed away in favor of the paradox that is their lives. They can always have their cake and eat it too!!

Sometimes I wonder how you guys fail to realize that Islam's treatment of women is not cultural, it is simply the default. All these feminazis are fighting the only men that are keeping them from being wrapped in cloth all day, barefoot and pregnant at home....

Corvinus said...

Sometimes I wonder how you guys fail to realize that Islam's treatment of women is not cultural, it is simply the default. All these feminazis are fighting the only men that are keeping them from being wrapped in cloth all day, barefoot and pregnant at home....

There was an article a while back titled "Nice Guys Get Illegal Immigrants". Well, nice guys get feminists. Islam is simply a particularly virulent, fatalistic version of jerkitude.

Bobby Dupea said...

Saturday I cancelled an overnight date, and said why in a texting conversation. The date was upset.

By evening, she had gone to a girlfriend's house to review the breakup. They had concluded that I was "irrational", "abusive", and probably needed "help" -- as once before (last year) I had called her on her shit and cancelled a date.

Because women are always victims, and because women make a habit, if not a fetish, of summarizing publicly why they have been once more victimized, I expect we'll see "break-up shaming" emerge in social media. As in, you break up with someone and tell her you're tired of her always being late or rude to your dog or she can't drive or whatever -- and there will actually be a kind of celebratory, public, performance art about how you victimized her.

Their culture does not laugh at the chick walking around Columbia with her mattress, the better to recover from her "rape" experience. Their culture admires this behavior. Pretty soon they'll be attempting public shaming of any man who simply tires of them.

Vox said...

By evening, she had gone to a girlfriend's house to review the breakup. They had concluded that I was "irrational", "abusive", and probably needed "help" -- as once before (last year) I had called her on her shit and cancelled a date.

And they wonder why we just walk away without providing any explanation.

Vox said...

Alternatively, just tell them they're very bad in bed. That's the one thing they have a very hard time turning around on you and it gives them something to obsess about.

Even if the relationship hasn't gone that far: "I don't know, you're just a bad kisser."

After all, what woman wants to be with a man who is a terrible kisser or is horrible in bed. You have to give them a reason they are capable of grokking. It's actual relevance to the real world is irrelevant.

Krul said...

These scare hyphens are so stupid.

The actual behavior that "slut-shaming", "fat-shaming" and so forth refer to is simply this: to bluntly call a spade a spade.

Another day, another leftist noncept. I'll add "x-shaming" to the list along side "misogyny" and "objectification".

swiftfoxmark2 said...

Accused of slut-shaming? Explain that you care about the well-being of civilization and don't want to revert to a barbaric society of misogyny.

Accused of fat-shaming? Explain that you care about people's health and that you're only trying to help people not die at the age of 39 from heart failure.

You don't have to mean it. But if you come from a caring stance, you may be able to turn their victimhood stance on their head.

Bobby Dupea said...

That's a good point, Vox. That one doesn't get published on FB or Twitter.

Talking point concision, in female victim positioning, is rising nearly to it's own literary form. Though the talking point playbook appears to have all of the originality and effectiveness of the U. of Michigan offensive playbook.

totenhenchen said...

I get worse treatment than that any time I wear a kilt in public. Women are pigs.

Cataline Sergius said...

Their culture does not laugh at the chick walking around Columbia with her mattress, the better to recover from her "rape" experience. Their culture admires this behavior.

Agreed, wholeheartedly. Feminist are quite capable of embracing the obviously insane if the alternative is facing reality.

Recent example:

Eccentrica Gallumbits the triple-breasted whore of Eroticon Six, is real and lives in the UK.

'I had a third breast implant so I can turn off men'

Feminist logic at it's most terrifying.

aeolipera said...

OT:

Paul Fussell's "X" social class (final chapter of this book) seems to correspond very strongly with Vox's Sigma.

Corvinus said...

I get worse treatment than that any time I wear a kilt in public. Women are pigs.

Seriously? One would think a kilt is even better than wearing a ghee-tar when it comes to peacocking. Or are you referring to harassment by f*ags?

LP 999/Eliza said...

Men walk with no explanation b/c anything they say is twisted and used against them. Feminism is still failed just like atheism and that absurd enviro theft.

Robert What? said...

Did I read that correctly? A female bartender had a male patron come onto her? Stop the presses!

totenhenchen said...

@Corvinus

No, it works like a charm, but I don't like being publicly groped by rude drunks any more than a woman does.

A woman has the culturally acceptable recourse of slapping such an offender and finding support among whatever men might be nearby. Me? Not so much.

It has, however, taught me that any woman's complaint about a sense of sexual entitlement in men is pure projection.

Californio_6th_ gen said...

And that is why she would always return tips that were in excess of 15% - wouldn't want male customers to think she was inappropriately flirting with them for ....ugh......Money. Gross!!!

She "Shamed" him because that dirty Wall-Streeter didn't leave a $100.00 tip.

thehaproject said...

Let's also not miss that the author's description of #GamerGate is a bald-faced lie.

One Fat Oz Guy said...

I went out with a girl who let a gay guy do all manner of groping, say offensive things and even follow her into the ladies toilets. She gave me evil looks when I brushed her chest whilst reaching for my drink another time.
I knew then that I was better off without her.
The statement about HWM is absolutely true.

standingagainsttheworld said...

@Vincent Castrillo
''All these feminazis are fighting the only men that are keeping them from being wrapped in cloth all day, barefoot and pregnant at home''

What they want is the cessation of SMV competition, being wrapped all day prevents that. Hence feminazi's don't care much about Islam

buzzardist said...

Women have absolutely no interest in eliminating shaming from society. For women, it is their most powerful tool for enforcing conformity. Women desperately want to draw all other women into line so that everybody is part of the social group. They want the same behavior from all other women so that they don't have to be accountable for their own behavior and the consequences it carries. If all women behave the same and look the same (slutty land whales, for example), then this will have no harm on them in their competition with other women.

Except for those few filthy women who respect their bodies and don't open their legs for every man, making them highly desirable to all men. Those are the ones who really need shaming!

Women simply don't want the kinds of shaming that may be directed at them. If they are sluts, then slut-shaming is bad. Indeed, any positive statement about chastity is automatically taken as a form of slut-shaming. If they are fat, then fat-shaming is bad, and any positive depiction of a healthy, trim body is cast as fat-shaming. Perv-shaming? Perfectly O.K. since it's the men who are pervs, which means this shaming will not come back to bite women.

Or will it? Once women engage in much of this behavior, it's very likely that men will start to take revenge in the same manner against women whose perversity will make male pervs blush. At that point, perv-shaming will die, too. And women will find some other kind of acceptable shaming that will achieve their social goals.

Dexter said...

Slut-shaming is wrong.

Eh Bullshit.

We all know that

We do? I don't know that. And how come we didn't all know that for, I dunno, thousands of years before the 1960s?

Ditto fat-shaming.

Ditto bullshit.

Akulkis said...

@Corvinus

No, it works like a charm, but I don't like being publicly groped by rude drunks any more than a woman does.

A woman has the culturally acceptable recourse of slapping such an offender and finding support among whatever men might be nearby. Me? Not so much.


Hook-top cane. Apply either end to groper's face. Grab groper's face... pull him down and apply your knee to his face.

Do all this while yellling loudly so everyone around can hear "You want to stick your hand up my ass?!?!?! You want to stick your hand up my ass?!?!?!"

Problem solved. Groper will be too embarassed to call police...and if he does call police, everyone around will back you up (after all, groper just sexually assaulted you.)

Akulkis said...

Ohh... you meant FEMALE gropers.

Embarrass them

"Hey Skank, did I stick my hand up your kilt? NO!?!? Then keep yours the fuck out of my kilt!!!"

[LOUDLY AS POSSIBLE]: " BARTENDER -- CUT THIS SKANK OFF!!!!"

Women's greatest weakness is their utter and complete fear of negative public attention.

If she retorts with a threat to not sleep with you, you simply reply "OH, THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU WERE THINKING 30 SECONDS AGO BEFORE I LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT I ALREADY DIDN'T WANT YOUR HANDS TOUCHING MY PRIVATE PARTS!"

CarpeOro said...

"Slut-shaming is wrong. We all know that – even Robin Thicke could probably hazard a guess in that direction."

I guess I don't listen to pop that much, but the only song I know by him ("Good Girl" or somesuch), I thought celebrated the slut in all women?

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