Wednesday, August 20, 2014

The lady that protests too much

This story of a nice, well-meaning guy getting repeatedly cheated on by a remorseless whore reminds me of one of my good friends. He's a tall, strong guy with a giving heart, an instinctive white knight by nature, which naturally means that he has dated some impressive trainwrecks. I'm not casting any stones here; it's been a matter of no little humor for us in the past, such as the time that there was a front page story in the paper about two strippers being arrested for a fracas at the strip club and one turned out to be a high school girlfriend of mine, the other a college girlfriend of his.

But the problem was that he kept finding himself in sub-optimal situations with these trainwrecks and I kept repeatedly having to tell him "sometimes women say things that aren't true." And he would insist that he was sure that this time that couldn't be the case, because she had looked him right in the eye, or she had told him that she loved him which really wasn't easy for her to say, or she had cried, or any number of a variety of signs that, of course, meant absolutely nothing.
We’d spend hours discussing anything and everything; though the conversations often turned to ethics, motivations, and stories of her past. Among the most commonly recurring were:

  • Stories about how the grief and confusion of being raised by a pathological liar taught her to make it a point to always say what she meant, and to communicate at face value.
  • Stories about an extremely manipulative ex-husband, who would do things like refuse to stop wearing the ring from his last relationship, and make her feel terrible or insane for any discomfort she expressed — though he was in fact cheating on her as he was making her feel terrible for being worried.
  • The pain of spending most of her childhood alone, as well as the injustice of being ostracized from various groups and communities in her adulthood.
  • Views on the ethics of infidelity. Which she maintained is inherently wrong even if the person who was cheated on never finds out, because (aside from willfully endangering their partner by way of increased STD risk) if the unfaithful party then has sex with their partner, they are doing so under false pretenses, and therefore without their partner’s consent. That is, sex with a partner who doesn’t know you’ve cheated on them is sex without consent.

There were other strong principled positions, sometimes brought up for their own sake, sometimes brought up in relevant situations, and almost always tied to her past, but they didn’t in any sense make up the bulk of our relationship.

Shit, man, what happened?

I mean, obviously she cheated on me (a lot actually), but why would someone violate their own beliefs on something as important to them as sexual consent? And what’s with all this fear of someone going public? What happened to her strong principled stance of unflinching honesty? Or of owning up to mistakes? What happened to the paragon of virtue I fell in love and set out to help fix the world with?

Well, the above conversation happens a few days after a considerably more painful one, where I discover almost none of the things I loved about her were true.
My immediate response to reading this was: shit, man, what else did you expect? Any time a woman makes a big deal about how important not doing X is to her, that is because she is doing X. For some reason, women think posturing is camouflage, and that reason is probably that so many unthinking men buy into the posturing.

What would you think if a man walked up to you and said, out of the blue: "I think molesting children is VERY, VERY bad. I think it is terrible! I think it is inherently wrong and I think child molesters should be shot! I think we need MORE laws against child molesting and we need them now!"

My first thought would be: "Well, you certainly think a lot about child molesting." And my second thought would be: "Never let this man anywhere near my children."

But for some reason, if a woman goes on and on about the evils of infidelity and how IMPORTANT it is to always tell the truth, the average man concludes that this means that she is faithful and trustworthy. No, it doesn't! It means the precise OPPOSITE! It's bait, cast out to see what sort of innocent idiot is going to bite on the bullshit.

Stay very far away from a woman who wallows in past pain. You want the sort of woman who says: "yeah, so it sucked when I saw my parents eaten by crocodiles when I was six, but hey, what are you going to do? Anyway, that's why I always wear croc-skin boots." not the one who revels in the reaction to her stories of suffering and nobly deigns to accept the consolation you offer.

Also, if you are a man and you decide a woman is untrustworthy, ditch her at once. You will NEVER regret it. Granted, it's easier if you have a few more mares in the stable than if you are LOSING YOUR ONE SHOT AT TRUE LOVE IN LIFE or whatever the hell it is that Deltas think every time they face a breakup with any girl they've had sex with more than twice, but it's still true. And once you break up with someone, MOVE ON. They're not your responsibility anymore. Ironically, you'll have a much better chance of eventually being friendly acquaintances if you cut contact and stop worrying at the wound.

35 comments:

Shimshon said...

That is a painful read.

Rek. said...

Might be mistaken but I am under the impression that men should be esp. cautious with tattoo'ed up girls or girls with colored hair. Tattoos + hair is a big fucking warning sign. And also aren't all girls into games/mangas/SF con. completely bonkers. Sort of a rule that I've come across many times in the manosphere that I have internalized. Fun to hang out with but certainly not gf material.

cailcorishev said...

We're conditioned to think that women don't lie to the men they love. Or, if they do lie, it's because they're hurting, or lying to themselves and don't realize they're lying, or lying out of desperation, or whatever. Never that they're consciously telling bald-faced lies to manipulate their man, but that's simply false. One of my own examples: a woman who says she'd never divorce, because her own parents' divorce was so painful for her, will pull that trigger so fast your head will spin.

One other point: aside from the narcissism inherent in setting out to "help fix the world," a guy is in trouble any time he thinks his attraction for a woman is about some great earthly purpose. Your desire for a woman should be about getting her naked and sweaty, putting babies inside her, and having her make your home a comfortable refuge. If you're telling yourself that it's about something else -- shared charitable goals, careers, etc. -- then you're lying to yourself and should figure out why.

Alexander Thompson said...

For those who haven't seen, this girl is the colored hair, tattooed type Rek describes. And most of the guys she fucked were to advance her career and are running cover for her by suppressing the story and attacking the ex.

Also, any time a girl complains that her parents (usually father) was some sort of evil, don't believe it. Most often it's just a cover for "he didn't give me what I wanted or let me do whatever."

Thomas Howard said...

Never trust a gal whose pockets are longer than her shorts.

jimmy-jimbo said...

A woman who dwells on infidelity is more likely hiding their own culpability. Its a red flag that any man should see and avoid. "I hate cheating because I am cheating." it's the guilt by association. I've been there myself in a much milder situation, but still serious. Best to call their bluff. They hate cheating. So do you.

Booch Paradise said...

Never trust a gal whose pockets are longer than her shorts.
Or owns her own pool cue.

jimmy-jimbo said...

"'IMPORTANT it is to always tell the truth"

A red flag that she will hold your feet to the fire, while avoiding the truth on her end.

Cataline Sergius said...

Stories about how the grief and confusion of being raised by a pathological liar taught her to make it a point to always say what she meant, and to communicate at face value.

Any person man or woman who is raised by a liar will always be a liar. The apple is never going to roll away from that tree once it falls. This was her first warning.

Stories about an extremely manipulative ex-husband, who would do things like refuse to stop wearing the ring from his last relationship, and make her feel terrible or insane for any discomfort she expressed — though he was in fact cheating on her as he was making her feel terrible for being worried.

"...make her feel terrible or insane..." WARNING!! WARNING!! DANGER WILL ROBINSON!! DANGER!! A woman who says these words about herself invariable is both terrible and insane. Do not start a relationship with a woman when breaking up with her may involve you having to get a new phone number, move to a new city, change your name and possibly flee the country. Follow the heart felt advice of Lord Humongous, "Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror."

The pain of spending most of her childhood alone, as well as the injustice of being ostracized from various groups and communities in her adulthood.

Sweeeeet Jezzzuuuuzzzzz!!! Look, a girl not doing what she is told to do, by her high school peer group, might be the unicorn hunter you've been looking for. She might have real principles that she wasn't going to compromise no matter how lonely she was going to be in consequence. It might not have been her fault because you have no choice about who you go to high school with.

However, she was talking about adulthood. You choose your groups at that point. These were groups and communities that she willing entered as an adult and got chucked out of. She was telling him about the typical consequences of her actions.

This girl was pretty much wearing a tee-shirt that read;

I AM TROUBLE

WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU NOW, IS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT

Some dude said...

@Cataline

When your post includes a comment by lord humongous then you have an Internet win

Hammer6 Actual said...

Gawd, what a UN-necessary trainwreck.

Of course the fact that he is a SJW, blah, blah, blah makes him a ripe target.

Tried to wade into the OP, but it is a complete maze of story, backstory, links, footnotes! Srsly, FOOTNOTES?

Dude needs a eppy red-pill auto-injector. stat.

Northern Hamlet said...

Vox,

Is there a difference between healthy skepticism and distrust? You know my story. I'm struggling with the distrust.

sigbouncer said...

"You will NEVER regret it."
"Any person man or woman who is raised by a liar will always be a liar."


Always and Never... Two words that rarely mean what they say.

Vox said...

Is there a difference between healthy skepticism and distrust?

Healthy skepticism is when you don't have any actual information or material reasons for suspicion. Distrust is when you do.

Always and Never... Two words that rarely mean what they say.

I have never regretted walking away from women who gave me any reason to doubt them. And I still got used by a woman who broke it off with me to marry someone else less than a week later.

malcolmthecynic said...

Beat you to it: http://malcolmthecynic.wordpress.com/2014/08/19/video-game-developers-are-sexiss/

The best part of this whole glorious story is that she claimed that the video game industry was sexist and she was being harassed, all while sleeping with her boss...a video game developer.

(That's why I call it glorious. It's hypocrisy exposed. I do feel bad for the poor guy.)

What a witch.

swiftfoxmark2 said...

From what I understand, any standard a woman makes about infidelity or romantic relationships in general is usually a standard that only applies to her boyfriend or husband.

Michael Maier said...

"I AM TROUBLE

WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU NOW, IS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT"


That sounds like a good shirt for me to wear.

But yeah... if you think she's a lying skank, she probably is. It's so much more fun to call women out on their BS anyway. If your gut says "she's lying", say so. It can be pretty amusing to watch them scramble.

The lengths women go to to lie, ESPECIALLY about who they're boning, is amazing. Guys have nothing on these bitches.

PhantomZodak said...

she is not "a lady": http://i-dont-need-feminism.tumblr.com/post/95229437402 (NSFW)

Az said...

This seems to have got a lot of press on the web, apparently one of the guys she was sleeping with was a journo for Kotaku. He posted a couple of favourable articles about her while they were sleeping together and she generated quite a lot of press. Theres quite the flame war going on, with apparent post purging going on in various internet sites (reddit, 4chan). Random article about it:

http://www.gamerheadlines.com/2014/08/kotaku-and-zoe-quinn-accused-of-exchanging-positive-press-for-sex/

sigbouncer said...

"I have never regretted walking away from women who gave me any reason to doubt them. And I still got used by a woman who broke it off with me to marry someone else less than a week later."

I get this from an emotional standpoint. If one is invested emotionally to a heavy extent with the woman and the relationship. But I find it more difficult to believe on the whole basis of never regretting.

As an example. In some relationships the sexual aspect is extremely good between the two people. There would normally be a point where the male would have some regret, even if just in passing, to have kept her in his stable at least a little longer. In ignoring ones emotional pain of the failed relationship due to trust issues. My friends and I growing up might have called this grudge ----ing.



Akulkis said...

Any time a woman makes a big deal about how important not doing X is to her, that is because she is doing X. For some reason, women think posturing is camouflage, and that reason is probably that so many unthinking men buy into the posturing.

Another thing I have noticed -- WHENEVER a woman asks, "don't you trust me?" (or even "don't you trust me ?????????"), that is your sign that not only should you NOT trust her, but you should have stopped trusting her 2 weeks ago.

The reason is that she's already betrayed your trust in some small way, and is about to betray your trust in a completely unforgivable manner.

Corvinus said...

This girl was pretty much wearing a tee-shirt that read;

I AM TROUBLE

WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU NOW, IS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT


@Cataline Sergius
Literally? I could see that.

Akulkis said...

...be esp. cautious with tattoo'ed up girls or girls with colored hair. Tattoos + hair is a big fucking warning sign.

Both are indicators of self-image issues, specifically unstable self-image and an over-emphasis on surface appearances (in a quite literal way) to the extent of having a personality disorder, specifically NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) or BPD (Borderline).

It's rather nice now that they self-identify their emotional illness in this way -- it makes it a lot easier to sift out the crazies than in decades past. Now you can do it without even talking to them. And best of all, the equally crazed men specifically search out these women, leaving more of the non-self-mutilating for you.

Northern Hamlet said...

Distrust is when you do.

So, light flirting. Skepticism?

Mansizedtarget.com said...

I've found this to be particularly true of girls who say "they don't like drama." My God, get ready for a ride.

JCclimber said...

Yes, these lessons would have been useful in my adolescence, but then I think most men would agree with that statement.

ScuzzaMan said...

"Never trust a gal whose pockets are longer than her shorts. "

... and/or whose shorts are longer than her genitalia ...

Feather Blade said...

This girl was pretty much wearing a tee-shirt that read;

I AM TROUBLE

WHAT HAPPENS TO YOU NOW, IS YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT


Put that up on ThinkGeek or something. You could make money and do a public service for men by letting the girls self-label.

Like that "My parents said I could be anything, so I became an asshole" t-shirt that was popular a few years back. By gum, the men who wore that shirt were not kidding.

Bob said...

Heh she has nudes allover the place as well. Basically a website like suicide girls.

Also it's amusing the huge censorship shitstorm that's going on about this, anyone in game development who has a critical word is being shot down and told to shut up or face losing their career, even 4chan, reddit mods and so on are censoring stuff. She must have fucked a LOT more than 5 guys to get more censorship capabilities than the president.

All likely because as horrible, lying, whorish and deceitful bitch as she has been, any critical word against her is one against Team Woman, so everyone rises up to rationalise and defend.

Pity when White Knights who fight for Truth, Honesty, Courage and all that, end up doing so for something that has the absolute antithesis of those qualities they so vigorously defend. The world is completely on it's head.

b1bae96e-6447-11e3-b6bb-000f20980440 said...

I guess I understand why some gammas would bang her, but how does a married man do that?

I can't profess to know if I have the fortitude to withstand the Maxim 100 throwing themselves at me left and right, but I have to believe that turning down a warpig would be easy. If I am going to piss away my marriage and sign myself up for a sexual harassment suit it isn't going to be with some half-orc.

whoresoftheinternet said...

At this point,* any man who trusts a woman is a fool.

*this point=having read Vox's blogs, Roosh, or Roissy for a year or more.

Witness the lying little shitbag of a female reporter I called out and showed to be a liar less than a week ago. By the way, thanks Vox for allowing me the freedom to expose her, rake her over the coals, and scare her off.

Rape!

APL said...

"Break" Fucking humongous massive red flag. In fact, an invitation to next.

This is so funny, if it wasn't so crap.

My lads girlfriends have tried this on them, one of the girls, spend a whole shit load of time telling him she was being stalked by her ex, when my lad and she eventually break up - (because there is no future in the relationship) she's back with the stalker in a blink of an eye. Four months later, she texts my lad to meet for coffee.

Background, she is 28 he is 23, and with the perspective that wasn't available to me at his age, I explained the dynamic that was very possibly in play.

The other had been dating a younger girl than him, She admitted to sleeping with someone else, and *asked my lad for an open relationship*. She was fucking eighteen!!!

APL said...

Christ, all that fuss over a 'munter' too.

Bob said...

APL, not long ago I heard a group of schoolgirls talking between themselves on the bus. One was talking about how she'd fucked a MUCH older guy etc, and the others were on about another girl who was a huge slut, racking up 10+ blokes, even had an STD and so on. They were around 15..

APL said...

Bob: "even had an STD and so"

The clap, 'the new black'.

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