Monday, August 11, 2014

Saving civilization is not "manning up"

Unlike many in the Game community, I don't have much regard for the self-styled MGTOW sorts. I tend to view them as being predominantly weak and damaged individuals of low socio-sexual rank who would probably sacrifice their oft-expressed principles in a minute if the right woman presents herself in the right way.

Here is why: a man who is genuinely doing his own thing doesn't make a big deal about it. If I'm not going to read a book, I just don't read it. I don't loudly proclaim to all and sundry the fact of my not-reading it. I don't know any man who makes a habit of announcing that today, again, he is going to refrain from having sex or engaging in romantic relationships with chickens, or indeed, poultry of any kind. The very act of the self-identification as a Man Not-Reading a Book or a Man Not Having Sex with Chickens is an indication that everything is not in psychological good order.

Now, I have a lot of respect for men who take vows of celibacy for religious or intellectual reasons. I don't think it's an accident that some of Man's greatest geniuses, men like Isaac Newton and Nicholas Copernicus, never married, although I think it is a genuine tragedy that, in the case of Newton, their genes were lost to the race.

But the vibe I get from most self-styled MGTOW is that their professed choice is an emotional reaction, not a proactive decision. This observation is supported by the reaction some have had to the statement of the completely obvious that if civilized men do not manage to reproduce and instill civilized values in their sons, civilization will not survive. To somehow summarize that as a call to "man up and marry those sluts" is to miss the point so profoundly that I don't even know where to begin pointing out the errors.

I can't fault a man who is so psychologically damaged by his experience with the opposite sex that he has been rendered capable of nothing more than retreating into a cave and licking his wounds for the rest of his life. But it is not behavior that merits respect from other men, nor is it of any use to anyone who values the finer aspects of Western civilization and wishes to avoid a collapse into mud hut barbarism.

As for those who claim I am somehow attempting to shame such men, what would be the point of that? It's a factual observation, nothing more. If a man is so delicate as to remove himself from the world due to the bad behavior of a woman or three, he's not likely to be of any use in the upcoming battle for the West.

There is always a risk in doing anything worthwhile and sometimes the odds are stacked against you. That is the way things are; it is the way things have always been. The hero is the man who runs toward the sound of gunfire, not the man who runs away from it.

262 comments:

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Unknown said...

Well Daniel, I will always be going my own way from here on in. It may or may not include women from time to time. It depends on how amenable they are to me and my wants. That's the point of it. I will in no way be cruel to women, and I will not deceive them (unlike pua culture), but I won't be bending over backwards and doing things I don't want to do for their sake. That;s really the crux of it.

Unknown said...

Well, we can't all be perfect.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Jason,

You haven't "done" anything let alone face slam us against a wall. Typical atheist. All you are doing is jumping up and down and screaming while throwing your feces at us.

Good job!

ray said...

"Unlike many in the Game community, I don't have much regard for the self-styled MGTOW sorts. I tend to view them as being predominantly weak and damaged individuals of low socio-sexual rank who would probably sacrifice their oft-expressed principles in a minute if the right woman presents herself in the right way."


Yep, that's what you have to believe in order to justify your Men Must Support the Gynarchy shamefest. I get plenty of action from females, including some quite young, and it makes not the slightest difference how they "present themselves," they are not getting the sex, attention, etc. that they are clearly after. (Except YOUR daughters Vox. Of course THEY have no sexual urges, just like all Other Peoples' Daughters! :O)

And it's not bc I'm trying to take down your horrid and sinister 'civilization'. It's because I'd never marry in a feminist nation, under 'laws' and public assumptions which are essentially female-supremacist tyranny. I don't care how many daughter-daddies whine and moan that Civilization is At Risk. Change YOUR DAUGHTERS and your nasty nannyState, not the sane reactions of men who want nothing to do with U.S. females.

In any case, NO man should EVER participate in a wedding under this monstrous nonsense. No single event has ruined more marriages than the Grand Ego Fest of the bride, who then expects that being the center of the universe at her $20,000.00 wedding is a baseline entitled condition that should thenceforth obtain the rest of her life. And she has the lawyers, government, cops, media, Daddy 'n Mommy, and everybody else behind to enforce her demands. Or else d-i-v-o-r-c-e. Or else 9-1-1. If lil cupkake demands a Wedding, FLEE for your lives, brethren.

Marriage is between ONE man and ONE woman. Period. It is for life, and divorce is out of the question, given that God states He hates it. If a man absolutely MUST marry -- if he specifically has been called by God to marry and repro -- the couple should be married before God, and speak their vows (including of wifely obedience) before God. He will hold you to your vows and I am not guessing.

Everything else is just manna for Der Matriarchy. Money and sweat and pain siphoned off the Perennial Dupe. Do not jump into their friendly frog-cauldron, no matter how many men looking to further the interests of their daughters tries to push you. The water heats up fast and you will not get out un-scorched.

Cheers.

Markku said...

Men Must Support the Gynarchy

You're thinking of the wrong scenario. What Vox is talking about is after The Collapse, when the civil wars (mostly between different races) start. We need soldiers on our side, or we'll lose. And since those soldiers take years to grow up, they have to be birthed and raised in this unfortunate situation we have now.

Markku said...

The idea is not to save this current system. Its collapse is a given. The idea is to beat the barbarians who will then seek to be the kings of the hill.

rycamor said...

And here we see why arguing with a Gamma MGTOW is just like arguing with a woman or a liberal. You can't have reasoned discourse. All they see is their emotion and what it means to them, and thus they will snark, flail, misrepresent our arguments, and constantly try to divert attention away from the salient point. Because we aren't coddling their widdle pwecious behinds like they think we should.

Duke of Earl said...

Slightly off topic, but for those interested in religious discussions might want to have a look at this.

I didn't quite understand why If_U_Knew seemed either drunk or stoned, until I realised it was a woman.

Stg58/Animal Mother said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Stg58/Animal Mother said...

We have never been accused of being Churchians or agents of the gynocracy before.

Who knew? Vox works for our feminine overlords. I personally welcome our vaginal overlords.

Ghost said...

Anyone else reminded of Dave Fatrelle with this Jason fella?

Stg58/Animal Mother said...

Ghost,

Agreed.

MichaelJMaier said...

Well this is a new level of Tard.

Daniel said...

The metanarrative here is MGTOW is the victory dance of victims who quit.

Anonymous said...

Whatever value mgtow has or does not have, this post, like many other anti-mgtow posts, as well as many of the commenter's in said posts, comes off as a misery loves company sort of thing.

Anonymous said...

"The very act of the self-identification as a ... is an indication that everything is not in psychological good order."

Is this only true for mgtows?

Brad Andrews said...

I wonder how many MGTOWs think of the years when they can't care completely for themselves. Do they all plan for an early Smith & Wesson retirement?

Or will they try to hoist their support on everyone else as many do these days? That is the other danger of not having any following generation.

Anonymous said...

MGTOW constantly mention "shaming." The only other group that uses that word so freely is feminists complaining about men shaming women. And the most vocal MGTOW advocate on this thread has a style of debate that fits the classic female mold to a T.

Huh. More evidence for the Gamma-as-feminine-brain hypothesis.

As to shame itself, there are many things a man could be disappointed in about himself, many areas where he could be considered a failure and many ways he could be considered a fool. But there is really only one thing a man should ever be ashamed of, and that's being a coward.

Why should anyone care?

There are never enough Alphas, it takes Betas to make a civilization. Every society that has relied strictly on it's Alphas has been in general a dystopia or else has been out produced. The key to civilization is giving Betas a good deal. The tools of Game are necessary for that. Any Beta who picks them up has a decent shot at success. But here we have a bunch of Gammas undermining that shot by whispering failure in their ears. So the Gammas are drawing fire. There can be amnesty for deserters, but not for the ringleaders egging them on.

Unknown said...

This thread perfect illustrates why MGTOW do not merit respect at all.

They are like Scalzi - "Look at me! I'm going my own way! Look! Respect that biyatch!"

The sheer display of attention seeking and desire for validation reveals how damaged gammas they are.

VFM #7634 said...

Whatever value mgtow has or does not have, this post, like many other anti-mgtow posts, as well as many of the commenter's in said posts, comes off as a misery loves company sort of thing.

If there's anything that's coming off as "misery loves company", it's the pro-MGTOW posts. "I am MGTOW, hear me roar!" Huh huh huh. Yeah right.

MGTOW constantly mention "shaming." The only other group that uses that word so freely is feminists complaining about men shaming women. And the most vocal MGTOW advocate on this thread has a style of debate that fits the classic female mold to a T.

As I brought up in another thread, yeah, Sgt. Hartman in Full Metal Jacket is a total female.

There are never enough Alphas, it takes Betas to make a civilization. Every society that has relied strictly on it's Alphas has been in general a dystopia or else has been out produced. The key to civilization is giving Betas a good deal.

Yeah, but it's also not a good thing if our civilization's BETAs are devolving into Gammas (and Omegas). Which is why men learning Game is a good idea. And since women are reactive, teaching BETAs Game provides more bang for the buck than trying to fix women.

Markku said...

teaching BETAs Game provides more bang for the buck

I see what you did there.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, but it's also not a good thing if our civilization's BETAs are devolving into Gammas

I assume it's because there's too much soy in our diet, especially in soy-based infant formulas. Plant estrogen creates Gammas by inhibiting male brain formation in toddlers? A thousand years from now historians will write about soy poisoning our civilization the way our historians write about lead plumbing doing in the Romans. Something has to explain that sort of civilization-wide madness.

Markku said...

Also, possibly, BPA.

Unknown said...

Just think about the Europe Belongs to Us video. These are the men and women who want to restore the European culture. These are civilizationists or people who are attempting to save civilization, particularly the European one.

All the self-styled MGTOW crowd are doing is spitting on these people. And when the Europe Belongs To Us show them not an ounce of respect, they cry foul.

Res Ipsa said...

These are the guys who make sure that all the girls are fucked enough to be ruined for the guys who actually would marry them. These guys in my view are the problem.

Giraffe,

I disagree to a point. This group of men banging the sluts are participants in the process as are the women who make the process possible in the first place. They are simply able to enjoy the fruits of slutdom. The guys at the lower end who are quitting because they don't like the options available to them aren't really "going their own way". They would marry if they had a decent opportunity. Those guys are dropping out. In a sense the only true MGTOW are the ones who have the option of marrying but won't because of the risks of modern marriage.

Derrick Bonsell said...

Hmm...

Jason shows up, wants attention ---> Gets plenty ---> ???

What's the endgame?

Also Ray, if you need to insist that you get plenty of action you probably don't.

Nate said...

"I basically just face banged y'alls worldview for an entire day straight with no meaningful or effective rebuttals sighted."

upon reading this whole... trainwreck of a shitstain of a thread... I have to say... You're God Damned delusional.

Unknown said...

I keep getting texts about new comments on this thread, and the comment count keeps going up... I guess people are still commenting on this in some secret way.

It's sad you have to cut off the view from the public and circle jerk each other in private to convince yourselves you're still right. LOL.

Publicly you like stupid a-holes. THanks for the memories. Lol.

Unknown said...

Oh I see. Your secret hangout is the "newest" button. Ok. I was a fool on that one, granted. But on the idiocy of marriage, im spot on.

Unknown said...

The metanarrative here is that mgtow kick the deluded ass of the tradcom shamefests and walk away victorious because we win.

You peope are trapped in some neverending mangina whiteknightmare.

And at tobias, I actually am for a return to pre-Christian culture in Europe. Christianity is not native to Europe, it was forced on us. A slave religion compiled by the roman empire to brainwash the world, and you seem to think that's something worth defending. Get with your real heritage, reject the tribal myths of the dessert people. They're not yours.

And good on you, Ray, and Ramblearound, you have proven your ability to think good, unlike these tradcon brainwash victims.

Bob Loblaw said...

But the guy playing endless games of Tomb Raider because he's afraid that a real girl will suck the life out of him seems much more prominent, at least among the advocates.

Heh, well, if you marry the wrong woman she really will suck the life out of you. I see the desiccated husks of formerly happy men all the time. Their wives call them up at work if they stay one minute late, because the shopping ain't gonna do itself.

Unknown said...

You know why our culture is dying, because people like you people have no solidarity with other men. You're so obsessed with being alpha that you treat your brothers like shit, and sit and wring your hands about how nobody deserves respect unless they believe everything you believe.

Unknown said...

And another think, you rant about how the mgtows destroyed society, but you guys were perfectly willing to screw them over for a quick buck, to appease feminists and multiculturalists in the workplace, now your punishment will be that your children will be slaves to Chinese people.

Unknown said...

I bet many of you are jew brainwashed masons, and they told you that feminism and multiculturalism were so great, and you took your bonuses you got for laying off your brothers, and got your balls licked down at the temple for it. Now look at our nation. Fuckin masons.

Unknown said...

You are indeed shaming men into "manning up" and saving the West. You can make a good argument that such shaming is justified. But at least accept that that is indeed what you're doing.

Unknown said...

These neocons destroyed it in the first place, with outsourcing, insourcing, affirmative action. Now they can't face themselves in the mirror and are trying to find someone else to blame.

Unknown said...

They did it, and now they think they're Mad Max. What a joke.

Unknown said...

Speaking of manning up...

One can save Western Civ, but that involves actually killing people who are in permanent positions of power. But you have to make that power weaker. Luckily the powers that be are trying mightily hard to bankrupt themselves.

http://usdebt.kleptocracy.us
And the first thing they will cut will be the Pentagon, thereby stripping Federal law enforcement of that implicit backing of military force. We already know that a militia of 1,000 armed men can deter Fed lawmen. We saw that in Nevada. In the future that military backing will be gone. Hell, the powers that be might put the Fed lawmen on the budget chopping block too, to keep up with their losing race against the entitlement bomb.

The abandonment of marriage and the rat race by men simply accelerates the federal debt increase and collapse.

Unknown said...

Rseven, Im afraid you be tripping. They will cut everything for the people first, and round us up into fema camps. The fed soldiers will always be fat, dumb and happy. They print the money out of thin air. sticking to budgets and cutting costs is strictly for us little people.

Unknown said...

Jason Jonea said:

They will cut everything for the people first, and round us up into fema camps. The fed soldiers will always be fat, dumb and happy

Not familiar with the Cathedral, or the US military are you?

Unknown said...

So what are u saying? The fed WILL starve it's own military of resources?

Unknown said...

The fed WILL starve it's own military of resources?

Do you even know what The Cathedral is?

Unknown said...

If the Pentagon, West Point, Citadel, Erik Prince, and Tom Kratman, etc had the power to cancel Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, ScHIP and other entitlements in order to keep the Pentagon funded over the objections of The Cathedral... We wouldn't be even discussing "saving Western Civ", or dealing with misandrist Family Court judges (ex. Her (Dis)Honor Margaret Noe). Western Civ would already be saved, the Family Court Judges like Margaret Noe would be in jail along with the rest of The Cathedral.

And Men would be married in actual patriarchal marriages where the man commits and the woman submits.

Unknown said...

See? Multiple post in succession, something commonly done by female commenters.

Gamma gonna gamma.

Markku said...

Also, this from Jason:

... I guess people are still commenting on this in some secret way.

It's sad you have to cut off the view from the public and circle jerk each other in private to convince yourselves you're still right. LOL.


Cannot use technology; thinks it's a conspiracy against him.

Unknown said...

You guys just can't focus on the issues, and get instead caught up in your petty insults.

So do you all believe the civilian government is going to disband the military to cut costs?

That belief shows a woeful misunderstanding of reality.

Unknown said...

So RSeven, first you said they will cut everything for the pentagon. Now you're saying they will cut everything else.

And that will be "saving society". So you actually agree with my point but still feel a need to act superior and condescending? Do you always have such a repellant personality?

Unknown said...

This blog is a psyop. That's why you have no reasoning behind your thoughts, and are acting like irrational totalitarian shaming little ladies.

Unknown said...

Are all of you as stoked about martial law and genocide as Rseven is? If you also consider yourselves Christians, then that proves that Christianity has been hijacked by Masonic New World Order Luciferians.

Good day to you, fine sirs.

Unknown said...

Ooh Ooh. I have a bunch of beans in a hole somewhere. I'm winnurz!

Unknown said...

Im not dave futrelle. He's seems like a blue pill mangina feminists orbiter, liberal, etc. Im not any of that.

But I do object to Vox Day's totalitarian philosophies.

Unknown said...

Vox day is not a friend to men. He's a psychotic fascist, that's not the same as a men's rights activist. It's actually the opposite as his insane theocratic warrior beliefs are generally behind the deaths of most men who die in battle.

Markku said...

Sooo, Toby, my chum, my frère maçon, how's it going at the Temple? Old 'Bub all right downstairs?

marlon said...

"Just think about the Europe Belongs to Us video. These are the men and women who want to restore the European culture. These are civilizationists or people who are attempting to save civilization, particularly the European one."


Then they will have to have kids - lots of them - a minimum of three.
They will have to discriminate in favor of men - jobs, education etc.
They will campaign for restricting the vote to male landowners.
They will have to discriminate against non-Europeans.
They will have to find ways of having marrying that escape the state, or full on attack the hostile marriage regime
They will have to participate in a number of non-usury institutions and start new non-usury institutions.
They will have to get guns and campaign for open-carry.
They will have to put up fliers, devise slogans, music etc. that show pride in their history, love of kin etc.


And that's just a start.
Plus, the effort will have to continue for at least 3 generations to root in the minds of people.

And those points apply to the 'saviors of civilization' in this thread.
That is what you should be working on.
Doing that would really be 'alpha', now wouldn't it.


"All the self-styled MGTOW crowd are doing is spitting on these people. And when the Europe Belongs To Us show them not an ounce of respect, they cry foul."

Obviously if they are doing the things mentioned earlier, then MGTOW would not be their focus.
This shaming of MGTOW - even if everything said against them was true - is futile.
It is a smokescreen to disguise the lack of action on things I mentioned.
Do stuff, lead, then others will follow.

Unknown said...

Sooo, Toby, my chum, my frère maçon, how's it going at the Temple? Old 'Bub all right downstairs?

Feeling irradiated. Saw too many nuke blasts last night..

@Marlon,

What makes you think that the 'saviors of civilization' in this thread are not doing what you think they should be doing? It just shows that you have no idea what you are talking about.

When was the MGTOW the focus?

Its like that in a group of men where only one is doing something that benefits everyone and those who are not contributing at all are saying to that man "You are just disguising your lack of action" because he called them lazy slobs.


Markku said...

Aww, that's too bad. Let's just hope it doesn't get in the way of seeing the Morning Star soon, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more!

*high-fives in an inconspicuous, yet strangely convoluted way*

Unknown said...

We the chosen few shall do the important work of externalizing the hierarchy! Look at us go!

Unknown said...

high-fives back. don't know why

marlon said...

"What makes you think that the 'saviors of civilization' in this thread are not doing what you think they should be doing? It just shows that you have no idea what you are talking about."


Oh really?
If the "saviors of civilization" were dong that, then that is what they would talk about.
Get it?
When they talk about what they are DOING to save Western Civilization then they can LEAD by their examples.

If someone asks for my help, I help them, or send them to someone who can help them.
That is how things get done.

No need to shame MGTOWS, feminists, baby boomers etc. - just lead.
Pumping out two kids to match D'Ontelle's 15 kids is not going to cut it.
It is going to take more than that.

Unknown said...

Oh really?

Generally speaking, yes. Really.

If the "saviors of civilization" were dong that, then that is what they would talk about.

They would still be talking about other things. For example, Nate talks about how to raise your kids and anything related to it, economics and guns. He also talks about foot ball, booze and boobs. He also ridicules, point out wrongs and describe what he sees.

Get it?

I get it that you are simply too short for this ride.

Retrenched said...

Meh. Had a long comment written but lost it when my laptop died.

The TL,DR of it is that I agree with Vox in theory... but the problem is at some point you run out of marriageable women. If a man can find a marriageable woman and start a family with her, if he is able to attract her and keep her, he should do that. But some men will be left with the choice of marrying women like the girls of Tinderfessions or not marrying at all. For men in that situation, doing the MGTOW thing or importing a foreign bride would be better for civilization than trying to make a faithful wife out of a whore.

I mean, how does encouraging female promiscuity by providing beta bucks to former alpha fucks girls help save western civilization?

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