Wednesday, April 30, 2014

Put the marriage first

This goes for fathers and mothers alike. Putting the children first sounds very self-sacrificing, but it is actually short-sighted and self-serving. It's a lot easier to unilaterally decide what it is the children need and provide that than it is to listen to your spouse and put their needs first. Some data on the male cheaters:
A survey of more than 5,000 cheating men reveals that 78 per cent of the respondents are in their first marriage, and that 82 per cent of them began to be unfaithful after having children. It seems for some men, having a child is the catalyst for starting an extra-marital affair

The most common reason men gave (30 per cent) for their infidelity was that sex with their partner stopped being passionate after the baby came. Nearly a quarter (23 per cent) tried to use the excuse that the lack of sleep commonly experienced by parents of young children had led to problems in the bedroom which had caused them to stray. Along a similar vein, 18 per cent stated that their spouse turned all of their attention to the children and this lack of attention led to their infidelity.
The blame can't be put on the mothers, though. First, these men chose to cheat. And second, how many of these adulterers stopped expecting and demanding attention from their wives, and simply waited for them to stop focusing 100 percent on their children?

38 comments:

Von Munchausen said...

Exactly!
It is so damn easy to blame it on someone else.
Not so easy to accept responsibility, set a level of expectations and demand that they be met.
Most would rather take the easy route.

Remo said...

And of course if the man said "Put down the baby and pay attention to me" he wouldn't be immediately labeled a horrible/immature/sad/prick/charlatan/selfish/jealous of children/etc. by his wife, pastor, both sets of grandparents, friends, and society at large.

The men chose to cheat in a situation akin to a starving dog told not to eat the steak dangling in front of its face. Women of course may cheat as they will and that is always the fault of the man in the new era of enlightenment.

The solution for all but the super alphas is to not have children in the US where everyone will encourage mom to do exactly what the men are complaining about, put the children first. Ordinary men cannot compete with society, Oprah, friends, family, and churchianity. For most if you want children and a healthy marriage, elsewhere is the best choice.

Fred Mok said...

I would pin this largely on the pervasive impact of feminism. In the West, we now have egalitarian parenting where children are empowered to make their own decisions and the universe revolves around them. This is also an over-reaction to the stoicism and sternness of the boomer generation. The problem is you have Christian families who think it is spiritual to put the children first and make them feel guilty and ashamed for expressing their need for intimacy from the wife. It is, of course, on the men for the choices they make.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

Nearly a quarter (23 per cent) tried to use the excuse that the lack of sleep

I love that phrase, "...tried to use the excuse..." Written just like a woman.

When I'm out and about I often see young couples with kids. The female generally looks absorbed with her child, the man generally looks like an accessory, or an afterthought. No wonder they stray.

cailcorishev said...

It often strikes me that it would take so little for a wife to keep the average man happy, and the main thing is the one thing that she's most likely to withhold over time and he's least likely to demand.

If a typical guy's wife stays reasonably fit, keeps the house and kids from being a disaster, puts meals in front of him before and after work, dresses feminine and greets him with a smile when he gets home from work, and drains his balls every night before bed and sometimes to wake him up in the morning as a bonus, he's going to be so busy telling everyone how wonderful she is to ever look at another woman. She can do that in a few hours a day with modern technology, and he won't care if she spends the rest of her day watching soaps. But instead, millions of wives go off to boring jobs requiring many more hours, insist on being the head of the household with the extra responsibilities that carries, throw lots of time and money into projects like remodeling the kitchen again, and then wonder why neither of them seems to be very happy.

They work so hard at all the wrong things.

Amy G said...

And of course if the man said "Put down the baby and pay attention to me" he wouldn't be immediately labeled a horrible/immature/sad/prick/charlatan/selfish/jealous of children/etc. by his wife, pastor, both sets of grandparents, friends, and society at large."

Put like that, of course most women would balk. If he said "put the baby in his crib and wait for me in bed naked", it'd be different.

Then again, men who think like that anyway generally don't have to encourage their wives to have sex with them.

Matamoros said...

cailcorishev said... If a typical guy's wife stays reasonably fit, keeps the house and kids from being a disaster, puts meals in front of him before and after work, dresses feminine and greets him with a smile when he gets home from work, and drains his balls every night before bed and sometimes to wake him up in the morning as a bonus, he's going to be so busy telling everyone how wonderful she is to ever look at another woman. She can do that in a few hours a day with modern technology, and he won't care if she spends the rest of her day watching soaps. But instead, millions of wives go off to boring jobs requiring many more hours, insist on being the head of the household with the extra responsibilities that carries, throw lots of time and money into projects like remodeling the kitchen again, and then wonder why neither of them seems to be very happy.

Have to agree with that. Only thing else he needs is for her to bring him a sammich and a beer while she keeps the kids quiet.

SarahsDaughter said...

It's too simple, Cail and Matamoros. Women are masters of making things more complicated than they really are. It is very hard for them to just *get* that the art of pleasing a husband is honestly this simple. Even though those are precisely the things she would do for him when they first got together. Then they make taking care of babies much more complicated than it is as well.

Sex, food, be nice to look at, peace, and quiet. So simple.

cailcorishev said...

Women do like to think their men are "complex," so maybe that plays into their belief that we couldn't really be that simple. We are.

I was once married to a woman who would get a wild hair every couple weeks and tackle some huge complicated meal, spending the entire day wearing herself out and making a huge mess to clean up. (The rest of the time, I mostly fended for myself.) It was usually good -- she wasn't a bad cook -- but I would have been happier if she'd put bacon and eggs in front of me every morning and a burger and a boiled vegetable every night, and it would have been less work for her overall. I didn't have the sense to tell her that, of course -- or many other things, hence the ex- part.

I realize I'm toward one end of the variety-seeking scale, and many guys wouldn't be happy with the same meal every night. But in general, we're much simpler and easier to keep satisfied than women think.

Kyle said...

So for those of us who want to eventually get married, what's the best way to avoid a sexless marriage? I'm guessing it's a smart idea to talk about this stuff a lot before tying the knot to make sure you're on the same page, but it seems like there's more to it than that.

JCclimber said...

I think most men would agree with you cail.
Having a very similar dinner and/or lunch 4-5 days per week would be just fine with me, and I consider myself picky.

It's variety in the bedroom that is of greater importance to men. But feminism and Satan have managed to poison that as well.

cailcorishev said...

JCclimber, even in the bedroom, I wonder if variety is that important compared to quantity. I mean, if a guy's only getting it once every week or two, sure, he's going to want it to be spectacular. But how many guys would trade that for an unspectacular but guaranteed session ending in orgasm every single night? I think I'd rather have the regularity and have to work on adding variety than the other way around.

Kyle, there are no guarantees, since the law will back her up if she decides to withhold sex. But I'd say the most important thing is to make your requirements very clear up front. Women really have no idea how much we need sex and how important it is in marriage. In a post on my blog a while back, I showed a survey that found that less than 6% of married couples have sex at least every other day. Most couples reported weekly or monthly (or less often), so most women think if they give it up weekly, they're practically being nymphos. If you want it more often than that (as did 97% of the men responding to my poll), you're just going to have to tell her so.

She needs to know that you will expect to get sex whenever you want it, but that's not enough, because she has no idea how often that will be. If that's daily, tell her that, and make it clear that you're not just talking about the honeymoon period or until she has a kid, but until you can't get it up that often anymore. If you make all that clear up front, and she goes into it enthusiastically, not trying to negotiate for exceptions, you might have a good chance.

Peregrine John said...

"Tried to use the excuse"? Meaning, they attempted it but had to go with something else? What exactly was the outcome of that, I wonder?

Put like that, of course most women would balk. If he said "put the baby in his crib and wait for me in bed naked", it'd be different.
One would think. However...

Ted Walther said...

When did Vox become Catholic? I thought they didn't allow people in who deny the Trinity.

Iowahine said...

cail: She needs to know that you will expect to get sex whenever you want it, but that's not enough, because she has no idea how often that will be.

Amen. Tis true, we women don't know how important sex is to you, cause, remember? Solipsism. It's understandable that you get confused since feminism has fed both men and women the lie that we're the same (funny how we like that lie when we like it) but our need and desire for sex is different - more diffuse, less focal?

25+ years ago, my husband mentioned the only reason he'd consider being unfaithful is if we stopped having sex. I was too stunned to respond cause 1) I couldn't imagine that happening, and 2) I thought it a shallow reason for infidelity (HA! Really.) Despite a long marriage with lots of ups and downs, his comment/warning (that at the time I really didn't understand or "accept") has echoed in my head as one of the most helpful things he said (he doesn't say much).

1) Recommend this blog (and VP, which demonstrates the way a thinking man's mind works and that men aren't women with penises) to every female you can, or mention it enough that a woman interested in you is intrigued enough to read. Their responses will tell you much.

2) If you get to a marriage candidate, have frank conversation that unequivocally states your expectations (and consequences)l; make sure she realizes these are terms she must accept to have/keep you, then don't let her forget she accepted. I think Atol has a pretty good rundown in MMSL (which I read thinking it was gonna have some moves in the bedroom), but stated as what to do when the marriage has become sexless.

Remo said...

Of course AmyG if the man doesn't say it the exact way you want it then the woman is of course justified in doing whatever she wants. That is understood right. The situation I imagined when I wrote this was that this *was* stated as an order and the woman was holding a sleeping child within 4 feet of a crib but thank you for proving what a colossal headache it would be to actually get any woman in the states to actually do it. "He didn't say it the way I wanted!!!" Yes, that's a fine reason to deny sex and put the kids first.

Beau said...

Sex, food, be nice to look at, peace, and quiet. So simple.

SarahsDaughter for the win!

Jack Amok said...

So for those of us who want to eventually get married, what's the best way to avoid a sexless marriage? I'm guessing it's a smart idea to talk about this stuff a lot before tying the knot to make sure you're on the same page, but it seems like there's more to it than that.

Be Alpha. Be desirable. Don't be undesirable.

Trying to get a pre-nup on the frequency of marital relations doesn't strike me as particularly Alpha, BTW.

The post-baby sexual drought, I suspect there are a couple of causes. Life gets a little more hectic with kids, and it's generally harder to be spontaneous, so the newly minted dad probably takes a bit of a hit in the "exciting and mysterious" department. Plus, new mothers tend to lack confidence in their bodies. All that weight gain, stretch marks, etc.

So my advice to new dads is to put extra effort into upping your SMV - work out, find ways to be responsibly unpredictable and exciting - and make it clear to your wife that her body is still perfectly capable of getting a rise out of you.

Jack Amok said...

Remo, for the love of Mike grow a pair and stop complaining about how unfair everything is.

Brad Andrews said...

Cail, we did the daily thing for a couple of weeks years ago when we were trying the brute force method as a last chance to give birth to a child. Got rather hard to do after a few weeks and I have always had an attractive looking wife.

I think some of the "all night long" stuff is more adolescent hormones than reality.

It doesn't mean it should be once a quarter, but once a day is a bit more frequent than most will likely want after a while.

Enthusiasm on her part is far more important than anything else and probably the harder thing to find for many after the early years.

Iowahine said...

Sarah's Daughter mentioned books recently (give to her by husband?) that helped her re-adjust priorities with the births of their children. SD - can you state again?

swiftfoxmark2 said...

I wrote about putting kids first recently. Glad to see that I was right in my observations.

SarahsDaughter said...

Sure, Iowahine (good to see you again),
"You Can Be the Wife of a Happy Husband" - Darien Cooper
"On Becoming Baby Wise" - Gary Ezzo (this is the first in a series)

Matamoros said...

SarahsDaughter said... It's too simple, Cail and Matamoros. Women are masters of making things more complicated than they really are. It is very hard for them to just *get* that the art of pleasing a husband is honestly this simple. Even though those are precisely the things she would do for him when they first got together. Then they make taking care of babies much more complicated than it is as well.

Your statement that those are precisely the things she would do for him when they first got together pretty much nails it. Men like stability, that everything will continue as it is in return for his love and support, without drama. The list of "Why Its Great to be a Man", is pretty true.

cailcorishev said... She needs to know that you will expect to get sex whenever you want it, but that's not enough, because she has no idea how often that will be. If that's daily, tell her that, and make it clear that you're not just talking about the honeymoon period or until she has a kid, but until you can't get it up that often anymore.

I explained to mine that sex is a right in marriage, and that she has the right to sex, but not the right from sex. And that as the man has the stronger sex drive, he gets to control the when, although she is free to say when she wants it in between. Therefore, when I say "now", she should start looking for a flat spot.

I further made it clear that sex is not a weapon, and that denying sex is not an option because it is the glue that holds the relationship together. Has worked well for daily sex over 30 years.

Matamoros said...

Jack Amok said... Trying to get a pre-nup on the frequency of marital relations doesn't strike me as particularly Alpha, BTW.

No, but giving the ground rules and making sure she follows through is, and it keeps her happy as she has lots of sex, which mellows out the emotional and mood swings that naturally come with the female hormonal cycle. Mine has never had a "female problem" even after several kids.

Iowahine said...

SD - Thanks!

Matamoros - it keeps her happy as she has lots of sex,

This is true. If we women want anything consistently it's attention and wanting to be wanted, especially as we sag.

Natalie said...

@Jack Amok

That. We have an almost 7mo who is a velcro baby. On top of that my husband (introvert) often isolates during stress (and a week of being constantly in super awesome NICU dad mode is high stress! And I have to say that he rocked it out so much). Anyway, we're home, and we're both tired and cranky with little time to ourselves. He's wanting to get away from the constant captaining and take a break. I'm wanting to lean on him more than ever. Between 4-8 weeks postpartum we fell into a hole that it took us another couple months to climb out of - and we're committed, attracted marriage savvy people. Sometimes I think people just give up too easily. There were times when I honestly was slow to start, and I was holding the baby a lot. On the other hand, if he got my motor running in the morning I'd gladly come climb in his lap the moment I could put the baby down. If he'd just given up and said "It's no use - she's always holding the baby," and if I'd said "He obviously doesn't think I'm attractive enough to make this a priority" we'd both still be in a much worse place. As is we aren't having tons of sex, but we're definitely on the up swing.

Matamoros said...

Iowahine said... This is true. If we women want anything consistently it's attention and wanting to be wanted, especially as we sag.

You have noted another reason why girls need to get married early. For man who is invested in his wife, given that she takes good care of him, sags are just part of life. He maintains an image in his mind of her while she was young and firm - some call it love goggles - that filters out the age, wrinkles and sags.

Iowahine said...

Natalie - hurray and congratulations! Thanks for inspiring words.

Matamoros - I'm so thankful for those googles which work both ways. My husband hasn't changed to me in appearance or performance ;-)

Remo said...

Jack - recognize that your pair is in your wifes purse despite the posturing if you have a child in the U.S. You'll need three or four pairs to combat this and you aren't up to the challenge. If you want to breed do it where you can be an alpha and not merely an internet keyboard warrior m'kay?

jimmy-jimbo said...

I wonder if the problem is actually women putting careers first. If kids matter, I never saw it.

Jack Amok said...

Remo, you're absolutely correct - whatever you do, DO NOT BREED. The future has done nothing to deserve being saddled with your genes.

Women, after due consideration, I fully support your centuries-long campaign to breed gamma out of the gene pool. Please continue. As Instapundit might say, faster please.

Remo said...

Jack A. I have a mental pic of you and it looks like this. Yes by all means strut and howl in America and leave the foreign girls to the rest of us.

Bike Bubba said...

Lost in the survey of reasons why men break their marriage vows is a simple question; if the man lied to his wife about "having no other", exactly why are we to take his testimony of why he did it at face value? Even a cursory examination of the facts suggests otherwise.

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