Monday, February 24, 2014

Don't accept neutering of yourself or others

Matt Walsh points to behavior that has become increasingly common in our generation:
I certainly can’t read their minds, and I don’t know what goes on behind the scenes, all I know is that the husband couldn’t seem to utter a single phrase that wouldn’t provoke exaggerated eye-rolling from his wife.

She disagreed with everything he said.

She contradicted nearly every statement.

She even nagged him.

She brought up a “funny” story that made him out to be incompetent and foolish. He laughed, but he was embarrassed.

She was gutting him right in front of us. Emasculating him. Neutering him. Damaging him.

It was excruciating.

It was tragic.

It also was, or is becoming, pretty par-for-the-course. The respect deficiency in our culture has reached crisis levels.
Now, some of us are fortunate enough to have wives who understand how awful this sort of behavior makes them look to others. Some of us are fortunate have wives who simply wouldn't do this out of the decency of their own hearts, or perhaps even out of respect for their husbands.

But many men don't.

So, I have two pieces of advice. One is for the men whose wives behave like this. Gentlemen, life is too short. The sex isn't worth it. Don't put up with this. Don't permit anyone, much less your wife, to treat you this way. Call her out. When she nonsensically contradicts you, crush the contradiction and make her look like a fool. When she tries to play belittlement off as a joke, tell her "it's not fucking funny to me."

The other is for the men who witness it. Gentlemen, don't sit there in uncomfortable silence. That sort of woman views silence as acquiescence to her bullying. Call her out. Ask her if her behavior is appropriate. Ask her if she isn't embarrassed to treat her husband like that. Alternatively, agree and amplify. Take the scorn she is pouring on her husband and add to it with apparent glee.

In either case, remember that women are MORTIFIED at being called out in front of the herd. It is their kryptonite. So use it when they get out of line.

39 comments:

Natalie said...

It doesn't take much. Some women were griping on FB about their kids saying "Dada" first. At which point I commented that if my son said "Dada" first or otherwise acted like his daddy was the best thing to walk in the room then he'd damn well earned it. Sure enough some women started commenting that their husbands were really good fathers. When you change the rules from "who is the most martyr-like mommy" to "who picked the best father for her kids" the tenor of the conversation changes for the better :)

Vox said...

When you change the rules from "who is the most martyr-like mommy" to "who picked the best father for her kids" the tenor of the conversation changes for the better :)

Clever. It's all about the solipsism. It can be used for good as well as ill.

Rigel Kent said...

I always want to ask the men in these situations, "Why do you put up with this?" It just doesn't make any sense to me. I am by no means an alpha male, but I have enough self-respect to not accept that sort of behavior.

This reminds me of something that happened several years ago. At the time I was single and my best friend had a girlfriend. All three of us ended up hanging out quite a bit. As women are wont to do when they're the only girl in a group of guys she tended to act a little bratty. A little bit of this behavior is fine, but a little bit goes a long way.

One day she was just getting way out of line. And I was getting fed up with it. I looked at my friend, and it was clear he was aware of the situation, but couldn't bring himself to deal with it. He was a good guy, but a little weak when it came to women. So I decided to handle it.

I said to her, "You are being incredibly rude here and it's not acceptable. You need to learn some manners, or I will teach them to you. The thing is, I only know one way to teach manners, and that's how I was taught. And I don't think you'd like that."

She was shocked into silence. She looked at my friend and his eyes had gotten very big. He knew two things. One, how I'd learned manners, and two that I wasn't bluffing. And then he said to her, "Yeah, you really wouldn't like it."

After that she straightened up and I didn't have any more problems with her. We actually got along better than we had before the confrontation.

dalrock said...

In either case, remember that women are MORTIFIED at being called out in front of the herd. It is their kryptonite. So use it when they get out of line.

One of the feminists' greatest victories is convincing men to shut up, believing that their judgment of women doesn't matter to women. However, this only works so long as men are tricked into silence. The real problem is that men's judgment is so powerful it can be too much. It is better in most cases for the correction to come from another woman. So women like Natalie are doing the right thing, and can quickly shift the frame from complaining about their men to bragging about their men. My wife does the same thing, and it has become something she does as much for the enjoyment of watching all of the other women suddenly change their tune as to stop the incessant bashing of good men.

for the men whose wives behave like this. Gentlemen, life is too short. The sex isn't worth it. Don't put up with this. Don't permit anyone, much less your wife, to treat you this way. Call her out. When she nonsensically contradicts you, crush the contradiction and make her look like a fool. When she tries to play belittlement off as a joke, tell her "it's not fucking funny to me."

Another tactic is to point out how unattractive a bitching/bitchy woman is. One example of this which comes to mind was a husband whose wife was berating him in the checkout line. He was quiet for a while, but when he had enough he said loudly:

"Stand back men! She's mine, you can't have her!"

Everyone within earshot laughed, and the bitching stopped immediately.

Matamoros said...

A couple comments on Matt's article.

I love my wife because I choose to love her.
Love is an act of the will, not an emotion. So the Catholic Church teaches. A woman must will to love and respect here husband, and make herself do it. If she is unwilling to respect and "obey in all things" then he has no real reason to put in the effort to love her.

Ah, yes, the old “husband is punished by his wife and sent to the couch” meme. I’m not sure if this actually happens in real life
Yes, it happens. A few months after we were married, we were in bed and she got angry about something, and told me, "go sleep on the couch". I told her to repeat that, she did, and I laughed and said, "Let me tell you something. You've been watching too many TV shows. This is my house, and my bed. If you don't want to sleep with me while you're ticked off that's fine. But you go sleep on the couch, not me."
She took a blanket and pillow, and went to the couch in the living room. About a half hour later she comes back and she said, "Its uncomfortable." I laughed and said, "No shit." and she got back into bed.
Never had that problem again.

SarahsDaughter said...

"Stand back men! She's mine, you can't have her!"

Hilarious and perfect.

Vox said...

I always want to ask the men in these situations, "Why do you put up with this?"

Why don't you want to ask the women why they are behaving that way?

It is better in most cases for the correction to come from another woman.

It's not an option in most cases.

Laguna Beach Fogey said...

"...remember that women are MORTIFIED at being called out in front of the herd. It is their kryptonite. So use it when they get out of line."

They need to be scolded in public as if they're children.

Iowahine said...

We actually got along better than we had before the confrontation. - Rigel Kent

Women need limits, boundaries, and leadership. My father is deceased, but he and my father-in-law both took/take verbal crap off their wives. Both were successful men professionally, respected in the community and by their children. My mother was a bratty mean bitch almost 100 percent of the time to us children and to our father. I never understood it other than to believe he always had the upper hand with her in private. However, that he allowed her to set this example to his children still confounds me. I wonder if that generation (b. 1915) just learned women are "different" and in order to get from them what you want, you have to put up with their irrational behavior.

I learned to be a mouthy snarky bitch as well. My husband only put up with it briefly. I learned very quickly to check my tongue. He also has a friend who called me out once - not for being disrespectful to my then boyfriend, but because I said something with assurance that was just plain wrong, and treating me as he would a man, he challenged me. I was shocked, surprised, embarrassed, somewhat indignant, but ultimately, learned a lasting lesson in 10 seconds: don't be stupid, don't be arrogant, and don't speak up when men are talking. I still let my emotions and need for attention get the best of me at times.

Rigel Kent said...

Why don't you want to ask the women why they are behaving that way?

I had to think about that one for a minute, but there are three reasons.

1. I don't want to interact with them at all. It's just an unpleasant experience.
2. The odds are they don't know the answer themselves. Most aren't the introspective type.
3. I already have a good idea of the answer myself. They're taught by so many, from the media to schools to friends that this is good behavior. That they're being "strong" women. And they are very rarely, if ever, called on it.

They're behavior is by turns depressing, disgusting and infuriating. But it's not surprising.

Natalie said...

They're acting that way for "good reason." Take the martyr moms. Sure it can be a little annoying when you've been physically attached to a child for hours, covered in various fluids, and generally tied to their ever changing needs to have Daddy get the big smiles, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate to gripe about it as if these big dumb men get baby accolades for doing nothing. My husband does a lot. We aren't working together perfectly, but he does a heck of a lot for us. It'd be rough if his kid treated him like a vastly inferior substitute to Mommy (well, except when he's hungry).

2870b918-77c0-11e3-b9bd-000bcdcb8a73 said...

The sex isn't worth it.

To help remember this, ask yourself: what do I get from sex with a woman that I don't get from masturbation?

Answer: an ego boost.

If the price of sex is getting your ego crushed, then. . . ?

cailcorishev said...

It's striking how quickly one woman with a confident stance can turn the herd in a completely different direction. Much of the time there isn't one to fill that role, though, so a man calling out a woman is the next best thing. It's a different dynamic, but still works.

It's a really weird feeling -- at least for a Nice Guy -- the first time you lose your temper with a woman and tell her off, finally for once not caring about the consequences, and suddenly this girl who kept escalating the drama and anger every time you tried to fix things with kindness gets quiet and turns soft on you.

CarpeOro said...

My with understands the concept of keeping any recriminations in private and not public. A friend of mine's wife did not for years (I believe she takes medicine for a bi-polar disorder and have been told she is better now). We were nerds and were into war gaming and frpgs. She would on occasion when I and others were over come down and bitch at him in front of us and call him a child for playing with "toys" (micro armor miniatures). I was appalled and made the decision I would never allow the same in a relationship I might have. Long or short term. I could care less if my interests and quirks were all understood, but I will never stand for being denigrated for them in front of others or even alone for that matter. If I recall a friend or two did call her out on it and they didn't go over to that friends house again for some time. Maybe I'd chose differently today. I'd like to think so, but lot of ingrained habits to overcome.

Jeremy said...

Story time. I may have shared this elsewhere on the manosphere before...

My brother was with his first wife. All my siblings (4) and my brother's wife were all visiting my parents. For some reason we all found it comfortable at this time to literally hang out, some on the floor, some on a desk char, in my parents bedroom. This hanging out lasted about an hour, maybe two. The entire time, every word out of my brother's mouth was contradicted by his young wife. Every claim of success by him was muddied by her insistence on it's insignificance. Every statement that had some potential interest in conversation was denigrated as being false. This went on and on and on.

Finally, I had had enough. I snapped and looked her dead in the eyes, spoke loudly enough to break all other side conversations and said,

"Everything, since you came in the room, that you've said to and about my brother has been negative and bashing him. If you have nothing positive to say about my brother, your husband, around his own family, I suggest you shut your mouth."

She never said another word, the entire time.

I definitely recall a glint of triumph in my brother's eye after I said that. They divorced about a year later, quite amicably as it turned out.

Calling out the ugliness of hypergamy in front of the herd is devastating, women literally change instantly when that happens. Do it as often as you need to.

Conscientia Republicae said...

What's funny about Matt Walsh's latest column on not allowing people to neuter you is one of his latest, describing when it is ok to hit a woman. Danger, extreme white knighting ahead. How would Matt Walsh recommend avoiding being neutered if your wife hits you in public?

PatrickH said...

I ended a very long-term friendship with the wife of a friend who did not always treat her husband like that (though she did, often enough) but subjected me to an incessant, compulsive campaign of passive-aggressive conversational sabotage. It was utterly non-stop, and it took me years to realize that, for whatever reason, the affection and respect had gone out of our friendship. I found that even confrontation would produce nothing but pathological denial, endless evasions, obfuscations and often, outright lies. I believe that if this kind of behaviour is allowed to continue beyond a certain point, there is no longer any reason to continue the relationship. I believe my "friend" was taking out on me her deep unhappiness in her miserable loveless marriage, but in the end, that was just me making excuses for her. I ended contact with her some years ago...and I maintain contact with the husband. I don't miss her at all.

haus frau said...

Before meeting my husband, I used to gossip about all the details my relationship problems with my friends and sisters. Over the course of a couple relationships, especially as they were winding down, it became apparent that my boyfriend was not as welcome at get togethers as before. My oldest sister out right told me because of the details she knew about my fights with my soon to be ex, she didn't feel comfortable inviting us over as a couple. I'd poisoned the well for the boyfriend I supposedly wanted to be with. It kind of sucks when your gossip chickens come home to roost but I'm thankful for learning the value of privacy before marrying.

ray said...

It's not access to sex that causes most western husbands to grovel before their wives. Most of these guys are well beyond the sex is everything nonsense of teenagedom.

It's fear. Fear of the consequences -- she will make his life hell for any show of masculinity on his part, as Amerika makes life hell for boys and men who display any masculinity.

These husbands don't want the comforts of their lives to be overturned, or even threatened, and anything less than total subjugation to the Ms. will start the inevitable causal chain of legal, social, and economic beatdowns . . . and every husband knows it too.

What's most pathetic is they all use the same coping strategies.... when i see them somewhere w/o their Supervisors, they smirk and tell me that their wives "let" them go to the grocery store, or wherever we happen to be. Just like their "pastors" in the fem-churches, heh heh my wife rules over me, aint that hilarious? Let's all titter nervously together, while the female congregants smirk.

Then these hapless hubbies wait for me to chime in. It is so sad.

I am supposed to chuckle along with them knowingly, as if the reality of their hopeless emasculation can be sniggered off -- all is OK if we guys will just all giggle along together, pretending our mass cowardice is merely a joke.

This is the Amerikan husband, and the Western husband. The vaginocratic State has him by one ball, the gyno-churches have him by the other, and wifey looms with the razor blade, able to destroy with one 911 call. He knows he's one word from losing his house, kids, money, and (often) freedom. So they make with the lame "jokes," do as ordered, and the matriarchy marches on.

antimism said...

@ray

I have a coworker. He used to be a big talking badass. He got married to a woman over 50 (he's also over 50). These are actual conversations I've had with him, almost word-for-word:

Him: "I came in to work yesterday to work on the powerpoint slides for that thing..."
Me: "You came in to do this? Why not do it remotely from home?"
Him: "My wife won't allow me to work on a laptop at home."
Me: "..."

Him: "This week we had to order take-out because I've been working so late each night."
(His wife is a grade-school teacher)
Me: "Why not ask your wife to cook for you?"
Him: "Everyone knows why you're still single Jeremy."
Me: "..."

Him: "My wife is getting upset at me lately because I've been diving a lot on weekends."
(He's an expert diver, has been scuba diving for about 20 years)
Me: "Uh, didn't you meet your wife because you were the instructor in a scuba diving class she was attending?"
Him: "Yes"
Me: "Then how is it she now has a problem with your side-job?"
Him: "..."

Him: "I had to stop watching Battlestar Galactica so much when my wife is awake."
Me: "Huh what's up with that?"
Him: "She doesn't like it, so I wait until she's asleep to watch it."
Me: "..."

76a86186-641e-11e3-a4c7-000bcdcb5194 said...

I think it was Jeff Cooper who said that, "The more manly the man, the easier it is for a womanly woman to wrap him around her little finger."

There's a shortage of womanly women these days.

pdwalker said...

I found the manosphere a couple of years ago. Thankfully, these stories are a thing of the past.

All I can say is, "Thank God for you people".

pdwalker said...

(And was an atheist)

Vox said...

The vaginocratic State has him by one ball, the gyno-churches have him by the other, and wifey looms with the razor blade, able to destroy with one 911 call. He knows he's one word from losing his house, kids, money, and (often) freedom. So they make with the lame "jokes," do as ordered, and the matriarchy marches on.

Insane. I'd live under a bridge rather than put up with a life like that.

Julian said...

Yes, my wife, who is actually pretty respectful, has done this on occasion. She used to be rude when we went shopping, in front of shopgirls and so on. Simple solution. Don't go shopping with her. Problem solved. Sometimes your wife thinks you are in the wrong place, for a man.

She did it a bit recently at a party, but I let it go, because it can be just a bit of blowing off steam sometimes. Later she fetched me a cup of tea. Ironically I saw a woman there with her husband that I had not seen in many years. But I still remember her comment - I think it was her. Somebody asked her husband what he did, and she chirped up "not much". I still remember that. Appalling.

We Australian men get a bit more respect from our womenfolk. But cheeking hubbie is still fair game.

Julian said...

Never "go to the couch". It is your bed. She can choose to sleep with you or leave it.

A good tip is to require your wife to say "please" after every request.

Sean Carnegie said...

@pdwalker

I co-sign both of your comments. I was the same.

Dexter said...

The vaginocratic State has him by one ball, the gyno-churches have him by the other, and wifey looms with the razor blade, able to destroy with one 911 call. He knows he's one word from losing his house, kids, money, and (often) freedom. So they make with the lame "jokes," do as ordered, and the matriarchy marches on.

The man who truckles and supplicates and fails to insist on respect is much more likely to have a wife who says that one word than the man who insists on respect.

And if you insist on respect and she says that word anyway, well, at least you don't have to feel disgusted with yourself for acting like a wretch. (I know I'd like to go back in time and smack myself for the times I acted like a needy supplicant and got dumped anyway - as, in retrospect, I pretty much deserved.)

rodrigoborgia said...

Great post. This is a very pervasive and insidiously nasty trend which every guy has so snuff in the bud when it comes to his relationship.

For me it happened right after we were married ... vividly burned into my memory... when I was on the computer in the living room and she walked in and said "I'm going to bed. Are you coming to bed?" I replied, "Nope, not right now. In a bit." She went into the bedroom for a bit, came back out and said "I let you work on the computer during the day but it's late and you need to come to bed now of you'll be tired tomorrow."

I asked her to repeat what she said, and when she did I told her she needed to listen very carefully because I was only going to say this once...

I said "You don't 'let' me do anything. Ever. Understand?" And then I shut up and stared at her. It was like time stood still... it was one of those salesman moments where the next person who spoke would lose. She did this slightly long 'okaaay', but quietly, like she was a bit stunned by how I had said it.

"Second" I said, "I'm all grown up now and I know when I 'need' food or sleep. You are not going to tell me what I need, or treat me like a child. Ever. If I ask you what you think about some issue then you are always feel free to speak your mind. But you do not ever just tell me what I need. If you want to go to bed, go to bed. If you want to stay up, stay up."

We just celebrated our 20th wedding anniversary. We get along great. And she has never once, in all our years, tore me down verbally in public OR in private. She encourages me, supports me and stands up for me, even if I'm wrong ... and then when I admit I'm wrong, she tells me she's proud of me for being man enough to admit it.

I have a very good friend whose wife is always tearing him down. She rolls her eyes at his stories and giggles and says 'what a loser' like it's funny to say that. The last time I've been in his house with her there was 8 years ago. We hang out, but if she appears on the scene I'm gone in 2 minutes. He knows it and is ok with it because I know he's ashamed of it and I think he'd rather not have me see what she does. Sickening. Unfortunately, I have found it is very difficult to grow another man's balls for him.

LibertyPortraits said...

I've gotten better at dealing with the "you're sleeping on the couch" drama. I basically view it as a child's tantrum now and refuse to budge. I usually just tell her, "I get that you're angry, but I'm going to sleep and I'm not going to sleep on the couch when I have this comfortable bed." Sometimes this escalates into her threatening to go to her mom's for the night. I haven't used dread game yet in that situation, probably because it only happens once every few months, but since reading the manosphere I've lost most of the fear I used to have in those situations.

Also, the sex really isn't worth any sort of bad relationship. A lot of gammas and Christian men don't know because they never have it, but it's something I wish they knew (and I had known years ago).

mmaier2112 said...

If my wife threatened to go to her mom's I would have to say something like "Make sure she gives you milk & cookies too. And doesn't forget kiss-kiss after she tucks baby in."

Areos said...

Rigel Kent sez: I said to her, "You are being incredibly rude here and it's not acceptable. You need to learn some manners, or I will teach them to you. The thing is, I only know one way to teach manners, and that's how I was taught. And I don't think you'd like that."

-------

You are making statements that you can't back up. Lots of women are going to call your bluff. What are you going to do then? Assault her? I don't think you're that stupid, but if you do, you're going to find out that she has an entire army on remote control command (start sequence: 9-1-1).

Conscientia Republicae said...

Of course he knows that, Areos.

Areos said...

Well why did he say such a thing then?

Sorry if I got this wrong, but I assumed that this board was a pissing contest for self-appointed "alpha males".

I already missed the train. Back in my day, in the 1980s, self-appointed alpha males were all quoting Sun Szu, The Art of War, and wearing suspenders. The delusional among them were talking about ripping off the dick of a Mafia Made Man and shoving it down his throat.

You guys are not really very good Alpha Males. Rigel Kent says something that won't happen much in real life. If he passively-aggressively threatens women in that way, many will walk over, take their middle finger, shove his lower jaw into his upper teeth, and say, "Shut your mouth, little boy".

How is he going to react to that? Crying? Assault on the woman (LOL)?

Carry on ... I guess.

Areos said...

But I'm open to suggestions. Maybe he can call Superman on the Batphone to come in and ... do ... something to the woman who humiliates him.

The only way to engage when she has all the power is to not engage at first. Stay the hell away from her. Grow up with regard to the sexual allure of women. All of this other crap is crap.

mmaier2112 said...

Areos: haven't you ever heard, "Audacity is 90% of the battle"? Most women are too shocked when you do something outrageous in their presence. Especially when you make it evident you don't give a damn what they think.

How many women do you think would actually ring 911 saying "Operator! This man SPANKED me!"

Not too many, I'm thinking.

Julian said...

Yes, exactly. Which is why a good spanking, panties down, skirt up, would be ideal. No real damage, except to her ego, and as has just been pointed out, very little likelihood that the female will want to make a full report to the authorities of exactly what happened to her.

Rigel Kent said...

Areos said You are making statements that you can't back up. Lots of women are going to call your bluff. What are you going to do then? Assault her? I don't think you're that stupid, but if you do, you're going to find out that she has an entire army on remote control command (start sequence: 9-1-1).

and Sorry if I got this wrong, but I assumed that this board was a pissing contest for self-appointed "alpha males".

What is it like to live in a constant state of fear Areos? You know what, forget I asked, I don't want to know.

A couple of points, as I said in my initial comment, I don't consider myself an alpha male. Just a man who values his self-respect. Second, if you don't want your bluff called, don't bluff. Which is why I wasn't bluffing. If she hadn't started acting right, I would have followed through. And I would have accepted the consequences for that action no matter what they might be.

Don't get me wrong, I have no more desire to go to jail or prison than anyone else. But I will be goddamned if I let some little chickee run all over me just because I'm scared of standing up for myself. As to plenty of women calling my "bluff", it's never happened. Every time that I set a woman straight in our interactions it led to the woman acting far more positively towards me. Note: I usually didn't have to be quite as baldly direct as I was in the incident I related. The girl in that situation wasn't very bright and hadn't caught on to the more subtle hints I'd given her before that.

Your problem Areos, is that you live in fear of women. Get over it.

Anton Chigurh said...

Sorry Areos but Rigel is right. You're afraid of women and their bid bad 9-1-1 army.
"take their middle finger, shove his lower jaw into his upper teeth, and say, "Shut your mouth, little boy". If a woman ever did that to me I'd punch her in the stomach so hard she'd need a few minutes trying to breathe. Then I'd leave the premises.
It's not enough for the cops. It's more than enough to put her back in her place, for good.
Too many men are afraid if they lay a single finger on a woman the cop army will come to her rescue and throw him in prison for 10 years. It's far from reality. You need a busted face for the cops to even cuff a man temporarily.
Despite what you see on COPS, they truly have better things to do than make a DV call cuz some cunt got slapped for running her mouth.

Post a Comment

NO ANONYMOUS COMMENTS.